john 3:36

[Seth]

I know. That's what preterism is by definition.

[FreeAtLast]

I know. That's what preterism is by definition.

don't misunderstand me though--I do not nec. agree with everything that is contained in Full preterism either--but all fulfilled--yes

[Seth]

When I look in the Bible, I notice something that I call "layered fulfillment."

[FreeAtLast]

When I look in the Bible, I notice something that I call "layered fulfillment."

one thing is for sure--we can only see as far as the light leadeth us   :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[sheila]

well,judgement begins with the house of the Lord...and I can see how judgement came on the unbelieving jews.

  and they died in the 'wrath' that came upon Jerusalem/Israel...but Jesus showed the believers how to escape

  the wrath/judgement...and the went to Pella......

   to bring my salvation unto all the ends of the earth/gentiles bespeaks of much more.......

  and John in the revelation was told to eat the scroll and  that he must prophesy again...and really..with all

  the killing of christians right now...it seems the call ..to come out of babylon my people..would have been

very timely[for if you look ata map of the land of Babylons reign  it is smack dab where all this is ocurring]

........what if....the people it was originally addressed to[that word] heeded it not...but the gentiles heeded

  it? put faith in it.............then this is true  ALSO. rOMANS 9;30 WHAT THEN SHALL WE SAY? THE GENTILES

WHO DID NOT PURSUE RIGHTEOUSNESS HAVE OBTAINED IT..A RIGHTEOUSNESS THAT IS OF FAITH......

   BUT iSRAEL WHO PURSUED A LAW OF RIGHTEOUSNESS HATH NOT OBTAINED IT,WHY NOT,BECAUSE YE

  PURSUED IT NOT BY FAITH,BUT BY WORKS.

[sheila]

 rEV 1;4 TO THE 7 CHURCHES IN ASIA.............

[FreeAtLast]

well,judgement begins with the house of the Lord...and I can see how judgement came on the unbelieving jews.

  and they died in the 'wrath' that came upon Jerusalem/Israel...but Jesus showed the believers how to escape

  the wrath/judgement...and the went to Pella......

   to bring my salvation unto all the ends of the earth/gentiles bespeaks of much more.......

  and John in the revelation was told to eat the scroll and  that he must prophesy again...and really..with all

  the killing of christians right now...it seems the call ..to come out of babylon my people..would have been

very timely[for if you look ata map of the land of Babylons reign  it is smack dab where all this is ocurring]

........what if....the people it was originally addressed to[that word] heeded it not...but the gentiles heeded

  it? put faith in it.............then this is true  ALSO. rOMANS 9;30 WHAT THEN SHALL WE SAY? THE GENTILES

WHO DID NOT PURSUE RIGHTEOUSNESS HAVE OBTAINED IT..A RIGHTEOUSNESS THAT IS OF FAITH......

   BUT iSRAEL WHO PURSUED A LAW OF RIGHTEOUSNESS HATH NOT OBTAINED IT,WHY NOT,BECAUSE YE

  PURSUED IT NOT BY FAITH,BUT BY WORKS.

these things have been going on since the time of messiah--the reason we know about all of it is we have TV's telephones and such--it has always been like this

John also was taken off the isle  and history records him later  preaching unto the people before he died--just like the angel said

Correct--those under the law didn't mix faith in as the believers did---they both did most of the same things---but it was done through faith by the believers and it was just dead works without faith through the unbelievers   :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[marie glen]

John 3:36Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

36 he who is believing in the Son, hath life age-during; and he who is not believing the Son, shall not see life, but the wrath of God doth remain upon him.'

Like "the wages" result "of sin is death"

..."but the gift of God is life.."

All have sinned, all die.. (imo) w/o God's Great Plan of Salvation, that would be the end of the story. Period.

I have a more "is was and will be" approach to the word of God. I find that provides a much fuller understanding.

This is exactly what i believe concerning the Bk of Rev.. of its characters, etc,

golden $ity Babylon - money based world

beasts which rule...

and also the wrath of God/fiery judgments..

have all happened before many times over.. and, will happen again, even on a global, one world scale..
seems logical to me and bound to happen that all untruth has to fall.. crash and burn, as the saying goes.. (imo, an eternal lesson who's smoke/memory of, will rise up for ever and ever.. literally, never ever forgotten.. otherwise why let mankind's choices unfold in the first place??)

[FreeAtLast]

I have a more "is was and will be" approach to the word of God. I find that provides a much fuller understanding.

:iagree: with that statement from the perspective that it was originally written unto the 7 churches of asia minor

some things were is (present) unto them--some things were was(past)unto them--and some things were will be(future unto them)

those things that was will be  was the things that were coming to pass  shortly unto them--meaning they have already happened in our time.

this is how I agree with the statement you made  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[sheila]

 :thumbsup:  ME TOO.   For instance...to me....to the seven churches in Asia..can be heard to say this......

  Asia=rising sun[son] so  to me the fuller understanding is the book of Revelations is addressed to

   all believers[church] in the resurrected son[Jesus Christ] 

[FreeAtLast]

:thumbsup:  ME TOO.   For instance...to me....to the seven churches in Asia..can be heard to say this......

  Asia=rising sun[son] so  to me the fuller understanding is the book of Revelations is addressed to

   all believers[church] in the resurrected son[Jesus Christ]

all believers in that time and age--yes I agree

but not addressed unto the believers of today---those things in revelations only happened once---so the book of Revelations cant be addressed unto all believers of every generation---just to the generation it was written unto--which was the new testament time

but don't get me wrong Revelations is still for us--but it was never written unto us--but was written unto the 7 churches of asia minor when they existed and lived  upon the earth   :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[Seth]

The way I see it, if I have two kids, and I tell one, you better keep your hands out of the cookie jar or you will have a punishment. If the other kid is listening, he will do well to comply as well. It's all one family.

[marie glen]

Imo, mankind's history and world history, has to have an end of the story, which to me, is the ultimate meaning of the Book of Revelation.. To not have a conclusion, of what man builds, to me, makes no logical sense.. Or, in other words, all of Revelation as historist, to me, makes no sense.. I do not believe our Lord's Kingdom will be an extension or continuation of man's empire.. Rev 20:4b is occurring now in other parts of the world..

[Seth]

A lot of preterists (and I am not saying this is you FAL) will say "peace and safety" because all the admonitions were written for the first church. So, when Paul says "God will not be mocked" that was only for the first church...as if God will be mocked centuries later.

[FreeAtLast]

The way I see it, if I have two kids, and I tell one, you better keep your hands out of the cookie jar or you will have a punishment. If the other kid is listening, he will do well to comply as well. It's all one family.

:iagree: with that statement also

but notice your 2 kids live in the same time---

the 7 churches of asia minor live in a different age than we are in---and the things of revelations only happen once

if your 2 kids do that--then the things that you said happens to both--in essence it happens twice

things that must shortly come to pass---in the time and life of the 7 churches of asia minor--not our time and age

Yahshua  was only coming back once--the trumpets only sounded once--the things revelations told only happened once

and I am persuaded in the time that it was written and to whom it was written unto  :dsunny: :dsunny:

[Seth]

I'm not a futurist either, but "shortly come to pass" is open to interpretation given that a 1,000 years is as a day to the Lord.

[FreeAtLast]

A lot of preterists (and I am not saying this is you FAL) will say "peace and safety" because all the admonitions were written for the first church. So, when Paul says "God will not be mocked" that was only for the first church...as if God will be mocked centuries later.

do I believe yahshua has already came back---yes
do I believe all things have been fulfilled--yes

do I believe we can get away with Sin--no indeed

:HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[FreeAtLast]

I'm not a futurist either, but "shortly come to pass" is open to interpretation given that a 1,000 years is as a day to the Lord.

I agree also---but that's talking about with Yah time doesn't persist9he is not time oriented)

he never had a beginning and never will have an end--what is time to Yah !!!

Time was instituted for man--we have a beginning and was going to have an end--but thanks to Yah he gave us his only begotten Son  :dsunny: :dsunny:

time means something to us--we are time oriented creatures

Shortly  or speedily or quickly still means the same thing--it has the same meaning to us and it would have for them

if im in Alaska and write a letter to you---saying I will be coming soon---quickly---speedily---how are you gonna take it
1k or 2k years later--I think not

it was but only a short time after revelations was written that all those things happened--I know there is debate on when Revelations was written--but all proof points to before ad 70 it was written-- :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[sheila]

if it wasn't unto me..then how come I hear it in the spirit by faith.  Jesus commended the faith of those

  He was not sent unto...He said..never have I found such faith in Israel......

    are you a jew born under law? under the command to observe a literal sabbath day,sabbath year,jubilee

  or do you hear it in the spirit spoken to others at a different time..put faith in it..and are blessed by it


    the woman who replied....but the little dogs do eat under the table of the crumbs of the little children...

  put faith in Christ[even though He was not at that time speaking unto them] and was blessed through

  that same faith.

  if the command to 'come out of her my people'  was written for those back them...then what are we all

doing gathered here on tent? why not in christendom? or is the faith put into that word given to them,

2000 years ago a Blessing unto us?

[FreeAtLast]

if it wasn't unto me..then how come I hear it in the spirit by faith.  Jesus commended the faith of those

  He was not sent unto...He said..never have I found such faith in Israel......

    are you a jew born under law? under the command to observe a literal sabbath day,sabbath year,jubilee

  or do you hear it in the spirit spoken to others at a different time..put faith in it..and are blessed by it


    the woman who replied....but the little dogs do eat under the table of the crumbs of the little children...

  put faith in Christ[even though He was not at that time speaking unto them] and was blessed through

  that same faith.

  if the command to 'come out of her my people'  was written for those back them...then what are we all

doing gathered here on tent? why not in christendom? or is the faith put into that word given to them,

2000 years ago a Blessing unto us?

you misunderstand me--I speak of the things that revelations said would befall them--those things happened in their time and was written unto them because they would experience them--like I said the vials only once were released--the trumps only blew once---in their time and age

now are we to come out of tradition and false doctrines today--YES !!!

are we to believe Yahshua today--YES!!!

but the wrath was only poured out once unto whom it was written unto--and that was in the time of the 7 churches of asia minor  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[Seth]

When Jesus described the Kingdom, he used the example of good fish and bad fish and the fisherman will remove all the bad fish. There are actually TWO aspects of the kingdom being described here, one in which there are bad fish in the net, and another one in which, after a process, there would not be the bad fish.

Jesus said that the kingdom would be taken away from the Jews and given to another people. But then he also said that for those who claimed to do miracles by the Spirit "away from me, ye that work iniquity." So while the sorting process may have begun with the Jews but will continue with the Gentiles.

2 Peter 3
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation....8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

So even if the time is 1,000 years, that's not slackness to God. Peter here is addressing the very issue of fulfillment of the promise. They were expecting it and it wasn't coming. Peter's answer is that even though it looks like everything is the same (they are expecting things to not be the same after this promise) with the Lord, time doesn't work the same.

The promise is not based on MAN'S version of time, but on GOD'S version of time. So, when he says the time is short, he's not on our time table.

do I believe we can get away with Sin--no indeed

If I was a certain kind of preterist, I could say that since all scripture is fulfilled, you can't use scripture to verify that we cannot get away from sin. After all, all the teaching about sin was preached to someone else, not to us. I would say that we could glean valuable teachings, but that there's no warning against sin for anyone today. So, in affect, we can "get away with sin."

[FreeAtLast]

When Jesus described the Kingdom, he used the example of good fish and bad fish and the fisherman will remove all the bad fish. There are actually TWO aspects of the kingdom being described here, one in which there are bad fish in the net, and another one in which, after a process, there would not be the bad fish.

Jesus said that the kingdom would be taken away from the Jews and given to another people. But then he also said that for those who claimed to do miracles by the Spirit "away from me, ye that work iniquity." So while the sorting process may have begun with the Jews but will continue with the Gentiles.

2 Peter 3
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation....8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.


:

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

So even if the time is 1,000 years, that's not slackness to God. Peter here is addressing the very issue of fulfillment of the promise. They were expecting it and it wasn't coming. Peter's answer is that even though it looks like everything is the same (they are expecting things to not be the same after this promise) with the Lord, time doesn't work the same.

The promise is not based on MAN'S version of time, but on GOD'S version of time. So, when he says the time is short, he's not on our time table.

do I believe we can get away with Sin--no indeed

If I was a certain kind of preterist, I could say that since all scripture is fulfilled, you can't use scripture to verify that we cannot get away from sin. After all, all the teaching about sin was preached to someone else, not to us. I would say that we could glean valuable teachings, but that there's no warning against sin for anyone today. So, in affect, we can "get away with sin."

maybe you have a different definition of what all things fulfilled means  ???

just depends on the way you look at it from the light that you have  Brother  :dsunny: :dsunny

[Seth]

What I am trying to get at is the rationale by which we can apply some scriptures to the future (you had mentioned we are still waiting for the second coming of Christ, in another thread). Maybe you could walk us through what you believe qualifies a scripture to signify a future event from this time forward.

[FreeAtLast]

What I am trying to get at is the rationale by which we can apply some scriptures to the future (you had mentioned we are still waiting for the second coming of Christ, in another thread). Maybe you could walk us through what you believe qualifies a scripture to signify a future event from this time forward.

you mis-read me Brother--I was not saying he had not return--I was saying it from the perspective of those who believes he had not returned yet.

I affirm again--I do believe he has returned at ad 70  :dsunny: :dsunny:

[FreeAtLast]

What I am trying to get at is the rationale by which we can apply some scriptures to the future (you had mentioned we are still waiting for the second coming of Christ, in another thread). Maybe you could walk us through what you believe qualifies a scripture to signify a future event from this time forward.

future event verse ---john said we shall see him as he is(Yahshua)

they have already saw him--we on the other hand are still alive in flesh

when we pass from this flesh we also with them shall see Yahshua as he is   :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: