We shall be Priests

[saintwalee]

Rev 1:5  and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the first-born out of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth; to him who did love us, and did bathe us from our sins in his blood,
Rev 1:6  and did make us kings and priests to his God and Father, to him is the glory and the power to the ages of the ages! Amen.

Thanks to Cardinal for her continual reference to the temple.  :gimmefive:

I think it is so cool how the temple is the story of salvation.

First and foremost that Jesus is our priest forever;
Heb 5:5  so also the Christ did not glorify himself to become chief priest, but He who spake unto him: `My Son thou art, I to-day have begotten thee;'
Heb 5:6  as also in another place He saith, `Thou art a priest--to the age, according to the order of Melchisedek;'

From my understanding, the priest alone was allowed in the sanctuary, but now we also have access to not only the sanctuary, but the Holy of Holies, for Jesus tore the curtain down.
Mat 27:51  And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

*The alter; destruction of sin
*The bronze laver; baptism
*The Sanctuary (communion with Christ as the light/menorah[revelation] and the show-bread/Word) and the incense, our prayers.
*The Holy of Holies; being in the presence of God (the Holy Spirit within us, Emanuel/God with us)

This is on my heart today and have included it, instead of referencing it:
Psa 145:1  David's Psalm of praise. I will extol thee, my God, O king; and I will bless thy name for ever and ever.
Psa 145:2  Every day will I bless thee; and I will praise thy name for ever and ever.
Psa 145:3  Great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised; and his greatness is unsearchable.
Psa 145:4  One generation shall praise thy works to another, and shall declare thy mighty acts.
Psa 145:5  I will speak of the glorious honour of thy majesty, and of thy wondrous works.
Psa 145:6  And men shall speak of the might of thy terrible acts: and I will declare thy greatness.
Psa 145:7  They shall abundantly utter the memory of thy great goodness, and shall sing of thy righteousness.
Psa 145:8  The LORD is gracious, and full of compassion; slow to anger, and of great mercy.
Psa 145:9  The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.
Psa 145:10  All thy works shall praise thee, O LORD; and thy saints shall bless thee.
Psa 145:11  They shall speak of the glory of thy kingdom, and talk of thy power;
Psa 145:12  To make known to the sons of men his mighty acts, and the glorious majesty of his kingdom.
Psa 145:13  Thy kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and thy dominion endureth throughout all generations.
Psa 145:14  The LORD upholdeth all that fall, and raiseth up all those that be bowed down.
Psa 145:15  The eyes of all wait upon thee; and thou givest them their meat in due season.
Psa 145:16  Thou openest thine hand, and satisfiest the desire of every living thing.
Psa 145:17  The LORD is righteous in all his ways, and holy in all his works.
Psa 145:18  The LORD is nigh unto all them that call upon him, to all that call upon him in truth.
Psa 145:19  He will fulfil the desire of them that fear him: he also will hear their cry, and will save them.
Psa 145:20  The LORD preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy.
Psa 145:21  My mouth shall speak the praise of the LORD: and let all flesh bless his holy name for ever and ever.  :dsunny:

[Seth]

From my understanding, the priest alone was allowed in the sanctuary, but now we also have access to not only the sanctuary, but the Holy of Holies, for Jesus tore the curtain down.

Yes, and not only that, the reason we have access to the Holiest place is because we are the body of the High Priest, his hands, feet, arms etc. The Body is functionally the high priest himself on earth as his representative.

[gregoryfl]

Which veil did they witness being torn? There was more than one.

[saintwalee]

 :dontknow:

[gregoryfl]

According to the writer of Hebrews, as most know, there were two compartments to the tabernacle/temple. (I am reading from the Aramaic text, not the Greek)

1. Qudsha 'The holy'. (Heb 9:2)
2. Qdush Qudsheh 'Holy the Holies. (Heb 9:3)

Both had curtains, but the only one visible to outsiders was the one to the Qudsha, the first compartment, where the bread of the face, the menorah, and the table of incense was.

According to chapter 10:19, the writer says we have assurance in entering, not Qdush Qudsheh (Holy the Holies), but Qudsha (The Holy) by Yeshua's blood.

I know this has been debated from the Greek for centuries, but the Aramaic is clear: It was the first veil that was torn, the one leading into the Qudsha (The Holy place).

If the second curtain had been torn, no one would have seen it and it would not have been a visible witness to everyone outside.

Josephus adds something in his writings that at least hints at another connection showing that it was the first veil that was torn. He describes the first veil being decorated to look like a panorama of the heavens, with heavenly bodies and stars...he called it 'a panorama of the entire heavens'.

Interestingly, with reference to the word 'split' or 'torn' in Mark 15:38, we find this word used only one other time in Mark...in chapter 1:10, when Yeshua began his ministry and was immersed. The Father split, or tore, the heavens. This could be connected to the end of Yeshua's earthly ministry when the Father once again split the representation of the heavens, the first temple veil.

I believe one is in God's presence in the Holy place, as I believe it pictures man serving as priest while in earthly bodies. In such bodies, Paul said there is a truth that as long as we are in these bodies on this earth, we are absent from the Master

Therefore, because we know and are persuaded, that while we lodge in the body we sojourn away from Maran;
(2Co 5:6)

I believe we will enter into the Qdush Qudsheh and are fully and completely in his presence, only when we put off these tents, as Paul alludes to here:

therefore we are confident, and desirous to be away from the body, and to be with Maran.
(2Co 5:8)

As wonderful as we have it now in the spirit, to put it in the words of the song...we ain't seen nothin yet.  :dsunny:

Ronen

[gregoryfl]

As I know I am probably the lone one here who uses the Aramaic text by default, there is also evidence in the Greek for this understanding. Here are the two places spoken of in Hebrews 9 again, in Greek:

1. hagia (Holy place) vs. 2
2. hagia hagion (Holy place of Holy places) vs. 3

When we read Hebrews 10:19 I used to assume that he said we had access to the holy of holies, but he doesn't say that we have boldness into the hagia hagion (holy place of holy places), but rather, into the eisodon ton hagion, which means 'entrance of the holy places'. The entrance of the holy places refers to that first entrance which lead initially to the holy place. It says holy places, of course, because the entire retangular area contains both the holy and most holy places together.

Ronen

[Seth]

I believe there is a twofold salvation. We are saved in our minds by the life of Christ not to follow the flesh, then we are ultimately freed from the flesh when the process is complete. I believe as the body of the high priest we are able to enter the holiest place because we are In Christ. We are in the high priest

[saintwalee]

Is that why Christ is a priest in the order of Malchizedek (sp?)? He is our mediator still. Although we have access to the Holy place. That would make sense as the incense is still there, we are still offering up our prayers.

So we are only 2/3rds the way "there" then, eh? Much better that being zero the way there!

Thanks for sharing that with us@  :thanks:

[gregoryfl]

I respect what you have shared Seth, and understand where you are coming from there my brother. I too, believe we are able to enter that most holy (set apart) place, albeit in a different way.

Those are salient points saintwalee. There is much to be gleaned from understanding the tabernacle pattern, and I believe we humans have only scratched the surface of its awesome revelation.

[eaglesway]

I believe there is a twofold salvation. We are saved in our minds by the life of Christ not to follow the flesh, then we are ultimately freed from the flesh when the process is complete. I believe as the body of the high priest we are able to enter the holiest place because we are In Christ. We are in the high priest

He 10:19 Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.

[Seth]

Eaglesway, yes and not only that:

1 Corinthians 3
16Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

In asmuch as we have entry to the holiest place, the holiest place is within us!

As Christ was in his father, his father was within him.
As we are in Christ, Christ is in us
As we are in the holiest place, the holiest place is within us.

[eaglesway]

or also, you could say- we are the holiest place. Our hearts being the mercy seat, our spirit the wings of the cherubim, our souls, the acacia box.

Being builded together into a habitation of God in the spirit (whew, wheels within wheels eh? :o)

[eaglesway]

Which veil did they witness being torn? There was more than one.

Since in Hebrews it says the way into the holy place has been opened through the rent veil of His flesh, I would hazard a guess it was the veil into the most holy place.

[Seth]

or also, you could say- we are the holiest place. Our hearts being the mercy seat, our spirit the wings of the cherubim, our souls, the acacia box.

Being builded together into a habitation of God in the spirit (whew, wheels within wheels eh? :o)

Yup!

[eaglesway]

You have not received a spirit of fear, but a spirit of power(wings of the cherubim), love(mercy seat) and a sound mind(acacia box)  :banana:

[marie glen]

According to the writer of Hebrews, as most know, there were two compartments to the tabernacle/temple. (I am reading from the Aramaic text, not the Greek)

1. Qudsha 'The holy'. (Heb 9:2)
2. Qdush Qudsheh 'Holy the Holies. (Heb 9:3)

Both had curtains, but the only one visible to outsiders was the one to the Qudsha, the first compartment, where the bread of the face, the menorah, and the table of incense was.

According to chapter 10:19, the writer says we have assurance in entering, not Qdush Qudsheh (Holy the Holies), but Qudsha (The Holy) by Yeshua's blood.

I know this has been debated from the Greek for centuries, but the Aramaic is clear: It was the first veil that was torn, the one leading into the Qudsha (The Holy place).

If the second curtain had been torn, no one would have seen it and it would not have been a visible witness to everyone outside.

Josephus adds something in his writings that at least hints at another connection showing that it was the first veil that was torn. He describes the first veil being decorated to look like a panorama of the heavens, with heavenly bodies and stars...he called it 'a panorama of the entire heavens'.

Interestingly, with reference to the word 'split' or 'torn' in Mark 15:38, we find this word used only one other time in Mark...in chapter 1:10, when Yeshua began his ministry and was immersed. The Father split, or tore, the heavens. This could be connected to the end of Yeshua's earthly ministry when the Father once again split the representation of the heavens, the first temple veil.

I believe one is in God's presence in the Holy place, as I believe it pictures man serving as priest while in earthly bodies. In such bodies, Paul said there is a truth that as long as we are in these bodies on this earth, we are absent from the Master

Therefore, because we know and are persuaded, that while we lodge in the body we sojourn away from Maran;
(2Co 5:6)

I believe we will enter into the Qdush Qudsheh and are fully and completely in his presence, only when we put off these tents, as Paul alludes to here:

therefore we are confident, and desirous to be away from the body, and to be with Maran.
(2Co 5:8)

As wonderful as we have it now in the spirit, to put it in the words of the song...we ain't seen nothin yet.  :dsunny:

Ronen

Oh! that explains: 2 Cor 5:8 - "therefore we are ...desirous to be away from the body, and to be with Maran."
   ...not as the 'mainstream' believes, as a soul (with inherent immortality).. 'going to heaven' (or the supposed 'opposite') at ones death..

the "opposite" of course, is needed if not all are saved, and if there is inherent immortality..

As I know I am probably the lone one here who uses the Aramaic text by default, there is also evidence in the Greek for this understanding. Here are the two places spoken of in Hebrews 9 again, in Greek:

1. hagia (Holy place) vs. 2
2. hagia hagion (Holy place of Holy places) vs. 3

When we read Hebrews 10:19 I used to assume that he said we had access to the holy of holies, but he doesn't say that we have boldness into the hagia hagion (holy place of holy places), but rather, into the eisodon ton hagion, which means 'entrance of the holy places'. The entrance of the holy places refers to that first entrance which lead initially to the holy place. It says holy places, of course, because the entire retangular area contains both the holy and most holy places together.

Ronen

Very interesting! makes very good sense to me! :smile:

I believe there is a twofold salvation. We are saved in our minds by the life of Christ not to follow the flesh, then we are ultimately freed from the flesh when the process is complete. I believe as the body of the high priest we are able to enter the holiest place because we are In Christ. We are in the high priest

!

   :thumbsup: :iagree:

or also, you could say- we are the holiest place. Our hearts being the mercy seat, our spirit the wings of the cherubim, our souls, the acacia box.

Being builded together into a habitation of God in the spirit (whew, wheels within wheels eh? :o)

Amen! the Truth as circles/wheels.. always the same truth every where over and over.. the same truth/story illustrated (proven) in every life and also in all history as a whole.. imo :smile:

[gregoryfl]

Which veil did they witness being torn? There was more than one.

Since in Hebrews it says the way into the holy place has been opened through the rent veil of His flesh, I would hazard a guess it was the veil into the most holy place.

Picture these two compartments...the holy place, and the most holy place....each with a curtain in front of them. Now, you just said that the way into the holy place was opened through the rent veil of his flesh, and I believe that is what actually happened.

The curtain leading into that first compartment, the holy place, was visible to anyone outside, even from the spot of the crucifixion. When it was torn in two, at the moment it happened anyone who could see the temple could see this happen. This is what I believe indeed happened.

However, most read the text (and I used to read it the same way) as though it were the 2nd curtain, the inner one leading into the most holy place, that was torn. This curtain was not visible to anyone except the priests who would go into the holy place to serve there.

Only one curtain was torn, and was witnessed by spectators. This means that the other curtain was not torn. It was truly as you said when you quoted the text...'the way into the holy place'. This is not the same place as the most holy.

That is why I am saying I believe that we have access into the holy place as priests to serve God, but not yet into the most holy, for we still have a high priest, Yeshua, who has entered into that place and serves there now, in heaven. As Seth said, we are truly his body, we the parts and he the head, and so it is also true that we are already in the heavenly places, seated with Him at the right hand of God. In this sense I believe we are in the most holy place now.

When I speak of us as priests not serving in the most holy place, I am using another metaphor, not the one of the body of Messiah. The heavens are the most holy place, the earth where there are believers is the holy place. Everywhere there are believers living we are all serving and attending to holy matters on this earth in the holy place. The outer court is that same earth, but where unbelievers are. The barrier that used to exist, preventing man from going into the holy place to serve, no longer exists. Any one who is currently an unbeliever is invited to believe the good news and enter straightforth into the holy place with us and enjoy all that it is to be joined to God while still in our bodies on this earth. I believe this is typified by the city New Jerusalem, which has no temple. The entire city is the holy place and anyone outside of it (unbelievers) lives in the outer court, the holy land. The gates are always open for them.

Now, if one still wishes to say that the curtain that was torn was the inner one, that no outsider could see, leading into the most holy place, then they are entitled to that understanding. But that would then mean that the outer curtain leading into the holy place was left untouched. Who could say back then that they witnessed an inner veil being torn unless they were inside the holy place?

And Amen to our being the holy of holies (our heart where his spirit dwells), a truly beautiful picture of the temple, and in fact, all creation being in God (for there is no existence outside of him) does, in a certain sense, mean that we, and all creation, are in the most holy place, although it is relative, since he is everywhere, and in all, which means to me that anything said to be set apart from him can truly only be that which does not exist (which has no substance).

[rosered]

 :girlheart:   
  16

Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer.

17
Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

18 Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,...

for me being a priest is  praying  in the same will and desire of Christ   for all mankind    and being heard
Oh that God hears and answers  perfectly     
   and faith is increased and   wonderful  works are done and  healing and raising the dead   happens 

and all things gathered into Christ  are ALIVE TO GOD

  Eph 1
9 He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him

10 with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him

11 also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,

[sheila]

we go there in the spirit my brother.......I saw heaven opened.......

[gregoryfl]

 :iagree: Same with sitting in heavenly places, etc. Very true realities, but not akin to our physicality.

[sheila]

 :thumbsup:  no-one puts new wine in old wineskins..for it will burst[rent vessel] but new wine is put in

  new wineskins[first the natural..then the spiritual] =new creatures.....

       

[eaglesway]

Hi Gregoryfl,

I see your point and had thought that as well, and looking at your post- I believe it is correct, since everyone saw it, and it makes sense, because the testimony of Christ, "Forgive them Father, they don't know what they've done" is for all mankind.

Yet, In Hebrews 9 and 10 it seems clear to me that Christ, as our faithful high priest, enters the holiest place(despite the english translation, I will have to look into that) in the similitude of the yearly sacrifice the high priest of Israel made in the holiest place. A new and living way into the direct presence of God, "the heavenly things" being cleansed with better sacrifices, so that we can beome the holiest place, and so that we can enter the holiest place, depending where on the wheels within wheels you are at :o) The veil that was torn in His flesh, as i am reading in Hebrews, takes us all the way in to the holy of holies.

On the other side of that argument tho(I argue with myself all the time :o), The sprinkling with water took place at the bronze laver at the entrance to the holy place, "having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water".

This also integrates with repentence(blood sprinkle, outer court) baptism(Bronze laver, middle court) and the promise of the Holy Spirit(Spirit descending over the mercy seat, holy of holies)

Also integrating with outer court(babes in Christ, carnal, many sacrifices for many sins, holy place(having sanctified her by the washing of water with the word, lampstand-teaching, taable of presence, fellowship),holiest place(golden altar of incense, martyrs under the altar in the heavenlies, entering into the priesthood, spirit of power ,love and a sound mind).

Wheels within wheels indeed. :banana:

[Seth]

I agree with EW that the veil torn was the holy place, but it doesn't matter with regard to access to the holy place. The high priest didn't need a torn veil to enter, just permission from God. We are the body of the High Priest. The torn veil is simply symbolic. The very fact that we have been given the Holy Spirit is proof positive in itself that we have access to the Holy Place because in type and shadow the Spirit was there. If we have no access to the Holy Place now, then our faith is in vain because cannot stand in the presence of God today where the Spirit resides. The promise is kaput in that case. If we have the Holy Spirit we absolutely must have access to the Holy Place because that place was the very type and shadow of the promise itself.

[Seth]

Having a chance to look at the Greek in Hebrews 10:19 here is what I see.

Hebrews
19 Therefore, brothers and sisters, since we have confidence to enter (Gk - eisodon) the Most Holy Place (Gk hagios) by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near to God with a sincere heart and with the full assurance that faith brings, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water.

First, I notice that the context has to do with the high priest, and only the high priest could be in the presence of God, which Hebrews is encouraging us to do (not sure how we can draw near to God like the high priest without being able to go where the high priest goes).

The word "hagios" is used in Hebrews 9:8 and 9:12 and 9:25 in direct reference to the HOLIEST place, where the high priest entered alone every year. So in the above passage, we know that the context is also the Holiest Place of the temple.

Looking at "eisodon," I noticed a few other verses contain the word as well:

Acts 13:24
Before the coming (eisodou) of Jesus, John preached repentance and baptism to all the people of Israel.

1 Thess 1
9For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in (eisodou) we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;

1 Thess 2
1For yourselves, brethren, know our entrance in (eisodou) unto you, that it was not in vain:

2 Peter 1
10Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: 11For so an entrance (eisodou) shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

One thing I notice about all these uses, is that they all suggest a Point-A to Point-B journey, not a static room, like an entryway. They all suggest that a certain journey either has been made, will be made, or in the case of Hebrews 10:19 should be made in order to "draw near to God" by entering the holiest place like the High Priest.

[saintwalee]

Good food!

I was thinking about this today, and how that in the mindset of the Jews in Jesus' day, their understanding was of Moses' commandments and the actual, physical sacrifices that were made. This required actually going to the temple and bringing a real, physical sacrifice.

Can you imagine what is must have been like for the apostles to evangelize, telling their fellow Jews that they no longer needed to go to the temple, but that by Jesus' sacrifice, that they were now the temple! That must have been very difficult to explain and comprehend.

After thousands of years distance between us and the first church, we just take for granted the spiritual relationship afforded to us in Christ Jesus.

Much of the discussion had to do with the veils, but just realizing that we can commune with the God of creation at any time, anywhere for His comfort and strength and joy is truly awesome!  :banana: