In the last days their will be a great falling away?

[UniversalSceptic]

http://www.charismamag.com/blogs/the-plumb-line/16365-is-the-great-falling-away-already-underway

It's better if you just read the whole article because I am tired and my brain's not functioning properly today, so I may not do an adequate job of getting across what this woman Jennifer LeClair is saying, but the fear of Hell has creeped back into my life.

[sheila]

Isaaih40;1   Comfort ye,comfort ye my people. Speak comfortably to Jerusalem. Cry unto her...

  her warfare is accomplished,her iniquity pardoned,for she hath received of the Lord's hand

double for all her sin.


  Isaaih 57;16  I will NOT contend forever,neither will I always be wroth,for the spirit should

fail before me and the souls which I have made. For the iniquity of his covetnous I was wroth

and smote him.I hid my face in wrath and he went on frowardly in the way of his heart.

   I have seen his way and I will heal him. I will lead him and restore comforts unto him and

  his mourners.   Peace,peace to him that is far off[prodigals] and him that is near,and

I WILL HEAL HIM.

[Seth]

http://www.charismamag.com/blogs/the-plumb-line/16365-is-the-great-falling-away-already-underway

It's better if you just read the whole article because I am tired and my brain's not functioning properly today, so I may not do an adequate job of getting across what this woman Jennifer LeClair is saying, but the fear of Hell has creeped back into my life.

Hi US,
I read the article, but did not see a very compelling argument for the existence of hell or eternal torment. What did you get from the article that troubled you?

[UniversalSceptic]

http://www.charismamag.com/blogs/the-plumb-line/16365-is-the-great-falling-away-already-underway

It's better if you just read the whole article because I am tired and my brain's not functioning properly today, so I may not do an adequate job of getting across what this woman Jennifer LeClair is saying, but the fear of Hell has creeped back into my life.

Hi US,
I read the article, but did not see a very compelling argument for the existence of hell or eternal torment. What did you get from the article that troubled you?

Well this woman spoke of the great falling away. Universalism is becoming more prevalent, and the end times are often spoke of being in the near future. You know she said UR is part of the "Great. Falling Away", so if it becomes more prevalent does that mean it isn't true because either lines up with the Great Falling Away spoken of.

[WhiteWings]

You know she said UR is part of the "Great. Falling Away",

I can just as well claim UR is part of "in the last days knowledge will increase"
Or the growing amount of muslims is the falling away.
Or the protestants leaving RCC church.
Atheism grows.
Or all converted 1st century Jews converting back to Judasism halfway the 1st century.
Etc Etc

My point is that the author said nothing. She quotes a few verses and then just assumes something.

[thetruthprospector]

She can beleive what she wants I beleive what I want. But the gift of the holy spirit. The promise of the father. I am a son of God. And we will see when the time comes who was right

[eaglesway]

http://www.charismamag.com/blogs/the-plumb-line/16365-is-the-great-falling-away-already-underway

It's better if you just read the whole article because I am tired and my brain's not functioning properly today, so I may not do an adequate job of getting across what this woman Jennifer LeClair is saying, but the fear of Hell has creeped back into my life.

Hi US,
I read the article, but did not see a very compelling argument for the existence of hell or eternal torment. What did you get from the article that troubled you?

Well this woman spoke of the great falling away. Universalism is becoming more prevalent, and the end times are often spoke of being in the near future. You know she said UR is part of the "Great. Falling Away", so if it becomes more prevalent does that mean it isn't true because either lines up with the Great Falling Away spoken of.

The term "Universalism" is not descriptive of "ultimate reconciliation". There is only one way to be reconciled- by the blood of the cross of Jesus Christ.(Colossians chapter 1). "Every knee shall bow, whether in heaven or on earth or under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father."   This is the gospel of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. (2 Cor 4 and Hebrews 1). Hell is a bad translation of the word sheol(grave).

People criticize what they dont understand because they love religion and condemnation, and because they dont have the spirit of truth. A careful study f the scriptures shows the absolute undeniability of the salvation of all.   :o)

If the salvation of all is not true, then all these verses and more must be cut out of the bible, which would mean the bible is a worthless myth.

Eph 1:9-11
Col.1:16-21
1 John 2:2
1 Tim 2:4
Ro. 8:18-25,11:36
1 Cor 15;23-28
Phil 2;10,11
Rev 5:13

Behold, I am making all things new !

[Ross]

God loves us completely and has sanctified us through the blood of His Son .
To go through that process and then hope He has got it right is unfortunately what such religions are promoting.
God knew what he was doing before the world began.
His plan is in stages of development, jut like we plan things in stages. Main difference is His wisdom exceeds all of man's attempts.
IMO in the last days many will fall away because the teachings they have assumed were correct will be exposed as incorrect and they will not be able to provide real answers to why we are here in the first place.

[ed]

Hey US!

That article needs proof read.  It has the reference as 1 Thessalonians.

2Thessalonians
2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Paul expected it in his day........or soon after his departure.

Whatever Paul was talking about has already happened.

There are falling aways.  I've had mine.  I've had some great ones.  :laughing7:

The Lord is always in charge and we need not fear, be troubled, or shaken in our minds.  This is just another time for you to learn to trust and let patience have it's perfect work in you.

:2c: ain't worth a dime.     :thumbsup:

[rosered]

  some good things being said here and  just popped in to  say  ,  thanks ed !!!  well said

when you see the man of sin exposed   that son of perdition  /  certain loss & destruction

for me its falling from the grace of God  , the gift is Jesus Christ '' Himself'',  to make everything  right with God again , to restore and rebuild and  make new  ...  All Things in Chist !!!  we have no righteousness of our own ,  nor give to the devil any  glory or  power to persuade us
for me   the devil is a beast on a short leash   , that CAN DO NOTHING  without Gods consent  , nor can we   for that matter      EVERYTHING IS  AND BELONGS TO GOD ONLY ! HE ALONE  DESERVES  Pre·em·i·nence
/prēˈemənəns/  noun
1.the fact of surpassing all others; superiority.  Fearing God is the beginning of true wisdom   the end is to be in total and complete AWE  and unbounded GLORY  in all our lives  !!GOD is in complete control ...  NLT version
  if Christ though the HOLY SPIRIT is guiding us by faith in HIS POWER ALONE  we have something to boast about
its sooooooooo  hard to unlearn  what Babylon  teaches   and be taught again of God ,  Jesus was always correcting his students   the 12    on how   we must trust in the SPIRIT OF THE HOLY FATHER  and not mans wisdom

  Jesus went to the harlots  and tax collecters  first , they were unlearns and teachable ....   Jesus    though  He was sent to the lost sheep of Israel  ,
  but  they  learned   the ways of man and  glorified themselves and not God  with the doctrines of devils , and had to  unlearn   everything to start over , JESUS   MAKES ALL THINGS NEW !and in Christ is the only way to please God  , because God sent  the Son as a gift of great grace   to overcome the world   to all of mankind    , the most important   thing to preach and teach to me is GOD IS LOVE AND HE LOVES YOU and made you for His own glory , honor and praise !!


Gal 5:1 So Christ has truly set us free. Now make sure that you stay free, and don't get tied up again in slavery to the law.  


Gal 5:2 Listen! I, Paul, tell you this: If you are counting on circumcision to make you right with God, then Christ will be of no benefit to you. 


Gal 5:3 I'll say it again. If you are trying to find favor with God by being circumcised, you must obey every regulation in the whole law of Moses. 


Gal 5:4 For if you are trying to make yourselves right with God by keeping the law, you have been cut off from Christ! You have fallen away from God's grace. 

Gal 5:5 But we who live by the Spirit eagerly wait to receive by faith the righteousness God has promised to us. 

Gal 5:6 For when we place our faith in Christ Jesus, there is no benefit in being circumcised or being uncircumcised. What is important is faith expressing itself in love. 


Gal 5:7 You were running the race so well. Who has held you back from following the truth? 


Gal 5:8 It certainly isn't God, for he is the one who called you to freedom. 


Gal 5:9 This false teaching is like a little yeast that spreads through the whole batch of dough! 


Gal 5:10 I am trusting the Lord to keep you from believing false teachings. God will judge that person, whoever he is, who has been confusing you. 
Gal 5:11 Dear brothers and sisters, [fn] if I were still preaching that you must be circumcised—as some say I do—why am I still being persecuted? If I were no longer preaching salvation through the cross of Christ, no one would be offended. 


Gal 5:12 I just wish that those troublemakers who want to mutilate you by circumcision would mutilate themselves. [fn] 


Gal 5:13 For you have been called to live in freedom, my brothers and sisters. But don't use your freedom to satisfy your sinful nature. Instead, use your freedom to serve one another in love. 


Gal 5:14 For the whole law can be summed up in this one command: "Love your neighbor as yourself." [fn] 


Gal 5:15 But if you are always biting and devouring one another, watch out! Beware of destroying one another. 


Gal 5:16 So I say, let the Holy Spirit guide your lives. Then you won't be doing what your sinful nature craves. 


Gal 5:17 The sinful nature wants to do evil, which is just the opposite of what the Spirit wants. And the Spirit gives us desires that are the opposite of what the sinful nature desires. These two forces are constantly fighting each other, so you are not free to carry out your good intentions. 


Gal 5:18 But when you are directed by the Spirit, you are not under obligation to the law of Moses. 


Gal 5:19 When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures, 


Gal 5:20 idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, 


Gal 5:21 envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God. 


Gal 5:22 But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 


Gal 5:23 gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against these things! 


Gal 5:24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have nailed the passions and desires of their sinful nature to his cross and crucified them there. 


Gal 5:25 Since we are living by the Spirit, let us follow the Spirit's leading in every part of our lives. 


Gal 5:26 Let us not become conceited, or provoke one another, or be jealous of one another.


  this  passage of scripture is saying  alot  about how we   become slaves to sin /error  , by trying to glorify the fleshy carnal hearts of man and not God  ....    seeing   lust and desire  from  being human to being some self rightous  and unteachable     beast !!
boasting in    what   they can do and overcome  , and its Christ   though the gift of grace   by the FATHER  HIMSELF    that gives and does  overcome sin /error , we are to be THANKFUL  to GOD and  humbled that HE WOULD   save us , we cannot do nothing without the Father and the Son though their  union of  HOLY  SPIRIT connection  , we are to be gathered into CHRIST [NEWNESS OF LIFE though Him ]  we LIVE TO GOD  though Christ who strengthens us   daily ..and judges whats right in the SIGHT OF GOD


   still have not  gotten the new computer and windows  8  yet  :sigh: but  will   one day soon, God willing

[Seth]

Do you see the way people honor Jesus in this thread? Satan cannot inspire good fruit. Good fruit comes from a good tree. Universal salvation is the ultimate salvation from sin for all. Such doctrine that speaks against sin cannot be inspired by the author of sin any more than devils can cast out devils.

[rosered]

Do you see the way people honor Jesus in this thread? Satan cannot inspire good fruit. Good fruit comes from a good tree. Universal salvation is the ultimate salvation from sin for all. Such doctrine that speaks against sin cannot be inspired by the author of sin any more than devils can cast out devils.

Yes the tree of LIFE IS  THE WISDOM OF GOD WHICH IS CHRIST  JESUS !!


1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
1Co 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.


1Co 1:30 But of him are you in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:


Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
Col 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
:HeartThrob:

[anna274]

It seems to me that whatever we focus on will lead either to WORSHIP or WORRY.
Look (focus on) to Jesus ----> worship
Look (focus on) to man (blogs, etc.) ----> worry

WORSHIP vs WORRY

John 4:23-24

v 23   the hour cometh, and now is, when true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth:   for the Father seeketh such to worship Him.
v 24   God is Spirit; and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth.


Psalm 37:1, 3, 5, 7
v 1   Fret not thyself because of evildoers...

v 3   Trust in the Lord, and do good; so shalt thou dwell in the land, and verily thou shalt be fed.

v 5   Commit thy way unto the Lord; trust also in Him; and He shall bring it to pass.

v 7   REST in the Lord, wait patiently for Him:  fret not thyself because of him who prospereth in his way, because of the man who bringeth wicked devices to pass.


Let us pray for one another that we grow in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ -- Savior of ALL mankind, to HIM be ALL GLORY, both now and forever.

[rosered]

 :friendstu:  wonderful !! praise God !!!

[dajomaco]

The great falling away ,
could be seen as a tsunami .
The water falls away from the shore ,only to come back.
The waters then  reach higher than they have ever before

[FreeAtLast]

IMO--the falling away was just before ad 70

notice when Yahshua told the disciples that when THEY saw all the things he spoke about that the end was at hand.

let me ask all of us a question--if he was referring to us 2k years later---then I ask all of us how are we gonna see the armies compassing about the city(Jerusalem)
you may say by TV---well that is a honorable answer

let me ask you this--if perhaps some of us do see it by tv--then how will you escape out of Jerusalem to the mountains ???this is what Yahshua told them to do when they saw this taking place--the father had supplied a safety in the mountains outside Jerusalem for the Saints to escape too.

we better get our running boots on   :laughing7: :laughing7: :laughing7:

this took place at 70 ad when the Roman empire surrounded the city and destroyed it with the unbelievers --history records that thtere was not 1 Christian that remained in the city when it was destroyed--they ran to the mountains   :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

the last days haved passed  my friends (IMO)

[UniversalSceptic]

Do you see the way people honor Jesus in this thread? Satan cannot inspire good fruit. Good fruit comes from a good tree. Universal salvation is the ultimate salvation from sin for all. Such doctrine that speaks against sin cannot be inspired by the author of sin any more than devils can cast out devils.

I want to believe that, but it isn't easy. There are Greek scholars that believe in eternal torment. I looked up Early Church Fathers and found articles saying that most of them did believe in eternal torment. I have no good way of verifying the truth for myself.

[FreeAtLast]

Do you see the way people honor Jesus in this thread? Satan cannot inspire good fruit. Good fruit comes from a good tree. Universal salvation is the ultimate salvation from sin for all. Such doctrine that speaks against sin cannot be inspired by the author of sin any more than devils can cast out devils.

I want to believe that, but it isn't easy. There are Greek scholars that believe in eternal torment. I looked up Early Church Fathers and found articles saying that most of them did believe in eternal torment. I have no good way of verifying the truth for myself.

US--whether some believed it or not in the past--you cant go by what others believe--you must search it out for yourself--study to show yourself approved !!!

check out the Hebrew and greek words behind the words we have in our bibles--it will show you the way---ask yourself  why is not anything mentioned in the old testament about that subject ?? the apostles all wrote the new testament scriptures and preached from the old testament--how could they possibly come up with that doctrine if its not even in the old testament ???

the old testament records the penalty of Sin as DEATH---NOT eternal torment

you have ample study materials here on tentmaker for words like everlasting and forever--which did not mean eternal--scriptures in the old and new testament bears this out plainly.

I encourage you  to seek and study in sincerity  and the Father will show you  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[Seth]

Do you see the way people honor Jesus in this thread? Satan cannot inspire good fruit. Good fruit comes from a good tree. Universal salvation is the ultimate salvation from sin for all. Such doctrine that speaks against sin cannot be inspired by the author of sin any more than devils can cast out devils.

I want to believe that, but it isn't easy. There are Greek scholars that believe in eternal torment. I looked up Early Church Fathers and found articles saying that most of them did believe in eternal torment. I have no good way of verifying the truth for myself.

for close to 1500 years the Christian Church believed in all kinds of unscriptural things. Things like indulgences, exclusive priesthood, sainthood and praying to saints, praying to Mary, Eucharist, no salvation outside the Catholic church, infant baptism etc...

Protestants came along and challenged those doctrines based on scripture not on what contemporaries believed. A scholar can believe this, another scholar may believe that. The question is, what does the Bible say? since not everyone agrees on what the Bible says, that's what this forum is here for. To discuss that. And if you find that what we say here is scriptural then what we say here is also correct. Its not incorrect or correct based on an article some lady wrote or beliefs a scholar has but based on what the scripture says. So just as FreeAtLast said, test it. See if we can answer the tough questions. If we can, then what does that tell you?

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: If you haven't read it yet, I recommend you read a long standing and continually being added to, post on here called, "The hard copy snippets from the library of Rodger Tutt." It has comments gleaned from hundreds of people down through the ages, about universal reconciliation. Blessings....

[marie glen]

http://www.charismamag.com/blogs/the-plumb-line/16365-is-the-great-falling-away-already-underway

It's better if you just read the whole article because I am tired and my brain's not functioning properly today, so I may not do an adequate job of getting across what this woman Jennifer LeClair is saying, but the fear of Hell has creeped back into my life.

I can only be on here for a moment, so i can't follow the link.. perhaps tomorrow? (idk)

But, whatever she's referring to, a great falling away.. it (surely? and imo) has occurred, a great delusion called the theory of evolution has turned Christendom on its ear... It's evident all around us. We can see the effects by looking at the culture around us.. from "Leave it to Beaver" (60's sitcom) to "Snookie" or rather "Jersey Shore"!! pretty much sums up the culture change due to this false teaching/prophet..

Look at the churches, the young are leaving in droves. why? no Biblical authority and trust anymore, if Genesis isn't right but is myth (as even the 'Christian' universities teach).. well.. take away Biblical authority and we lose.

I love to shut the doors about myself and read only the scripture. Especially of course the New Testament of the New Covenant about which Jesus said "this is the new covenant of my blood" and His most important instructions on the eve of his crucifixion.. the bread (of God) and the (new) wine/Holy Spirit

People love to think and have visions and what not, makes them appear wise.. but what we need is the Word of His covenant. Period, imo.

God bless you dear!! I could write so much more about the Judgment Day scenario, which imbbo (in my biblically based opinion:) will last 500 years... (based on the ancient fall holy days being fulfilled by Jesus' long 2nd advent like his first fulfilled the Spring ones...

God worse than Hitler? I think not. And surely this 'hell' (mistranslated from "the grave" - and the sheol of the OT) blasphemes God's holy, pure and good image eveRy day, aNd makes it SO hard for many to "believe"..

If it was necessary for all to believe before death, than that is exactly what would occur as God is all powerful.. and surely(?) perfect. and, perfect makes no mistakes. Loses nothing. Or else perfect is not perfect. Who can thwart God's will???? (Tho demonic hordes will try to prevent us all from seeing truth.) And not all powerful would also be less than PERFECT.

We're simply aLL learning good from evil which is also life from death.. God iS life... to stray from Him..? Well, can't be done! Can only result in a self destructive puff of smoke, dust and ashes /apocalypse. Unless of course He intervenes, which of course,
              He did.   :hiya:

God bless you! Give you deep abiding peace.. IJNA. Some great posts in this thread! :))

[marie glen]

:cloud9: If you haven't read it yet, I recommend you read a long standing and continually being added to, post on here called, "The hard copy snippets from the library of Rodger Tutt." It has comments gleaned from hundreds of people down through the ages, about universal reconciliation. Blessings....

(p.s.)

    :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[FreeAtLast]

Here is another great learning tool for the greek and Hebrew words behind scriptures in our bibles----
\


http://christadelphianstudies.net/Notes/Bible%20Marking/World%20in%20the%20NT%20BM.pdf

[UniversalSceptic]

Do you see the way people honor Jesus in this thread? Satan cannot inspire good fruit. Good fruit comes from a good tree. Universal salvation is the ultimate salvation from sin for all. Such doctrine that speaks against sin cannot be inspired by the author of sin any more than devils can cast out devils.

I want to believe that, but it isn't easy. There are Greek scholars that believe in eternal torment. I looked up Early Church Fathers and found articles saying that most of them did believe in eternal torment. I have no good way of verifying the truth for myself.

for close to 1500 years the Christian Church believed in all kinds of unscriptural things. Things like indulgences, exclusive priesthood, sainthood and praying to saints, praying to Mary, Eucharist, no salvation outside the Catholic church, infant baptism etc...

Protestants came along and challenged those doctrines based on scripture not on what contemporaries believed. A scholar can believe this, another scholar may believe that. The question is, what does the Bible say? since not everyone agrees on what the Bible says, that's what this forum is here for. To discuss that. And if you find that what we say here is scriptural then what we say here is also correct. Its not incorrect or correct based on an article some lady wrote or beliefs a scholar has but based on what the scripture says. So just as FreeAtLast said, test it. See if we can answer the tough questions. If we can, then what does that tell you?

I am satisfied with the answers you give me, until I test them. Then when I test them, all arguments presented for UR are refuted. I do my best to find scriptures, but their are so many different translations out their that is hard to find ones that line up with each other. I downloaded a bible app that compares two bibles that I now realize is worthless because of one that blatantly contradicts the other.

[Seth]

Give me an example of the refutation