Justice

[Seth]

Are you saying that God didn't require the sacrifice of lambs to atone for sin, or that those passages in the OT and NT are not authentic?

Not at all!   :friendstu:t.v.

We are just looking from a different view. I believe you are coming from the view point of the words as presented. While I am coming from the perspective of all the words that indicate Father is above everything and is complete in every way; He imo lacks nothing. So, in this sense, Father did not NEED or REQUIRE any atonement for sin.Because NOTHING that has happened since creation was outside of His plan.

So who needs the atonement? Who benefits most from it?  We do. The law required an "eye for an eye" and many still hold to this law. However Jesus wept for those who saught to kill him and some of his last words was to Father to forgive their ignorance. Yet He gave his life freely on HIS authority, which must mean it was not a mandate from Father. More likely an amiable agreement between Father and Son before even Time.

Lets look at it again from the eyes of Satan. If Father HAD to have BLOOD for the atonement of sin., that can only mean that Satan is less bound by law than Father. Satan can destroy freely, but Father CANNOT restore. Love, perfectlove requires no atonement. If it does, then the love is not perfect. Father has told us that he has hardened the hearts of many, deafened and blinded the same.

What kind of loving Father would then demand blood for the mistakes made by a deaf and blind child by the FATHERS OWN HAND?

Make no mistake with this. Oh, you might bring up the great flood, but this is another story. Yahweh wad Jesus and Jesus died..........

This is a huge topic but it comes down to Faith and the light of Spirit so given. Spirit should never be used against Spirit, so I will close with, I am sure my view is no more spectacular than yours.

The peace and the love it's enough.

Love Julie  :HeartThrob:

Yes I agree, it's not a matter of God being forced to do anything. The reason he required the sacrifices was for the remembrance of sin. It was for the purpose of show his creatures thier state of being so that they would call out for a savior from "the body of this death."

As WhiteWings said he desired something better, mercy. Enter Christ, the savior.

From my perspective, it all has to do with "let us make man in our image." It's all part of the plan.

[Seth]

Just to be clear, I am not saying that God was compelled to require sacrifices, but that he did it as part of his plan. I don't want people to think that I am saying God was in a corner about that. What I am saying is that God required blood sacrifice not from being compelled, but as a part of his overall plan to the end of being all in all.

God could have made everyone perfect from the beginning instantly, but he chose to MAKE man in his image, via a process. This is why he is compared to a Potter who takes unformed clay and forms it into a vessel.

[rosered]

Deu 32 ;34 "The LORD says, 'Am I not storing up these things,
sealing them away in my treasury?



Deu 32:35 I will take revenge; I will pay them back.
In due time their feet will slip.
Their day of disaster will arrive,
and their destiny will overtake them.'



Deu 32:36 "Indeed, the LORD will give justice to his people,
and he will change his mind about  his servants,
when he sees their strength is gone
and no one is left, slave or free.



Deu 32:37 Then he will ask, 'Where are their gods,
the rocks they fled to for refuge?


Deu 32:38 Where now are those gods,
who ate the fat of their sacrifices
and drank the wine of their offerings?
Let those gods arise and help you!
Let them provide you with shelter!



Deu 32:39 Look now; I myself am he!
There is no other god but me!
I am the one who kills and gives life;
I am the one who wounds and heals;no one can be rescued from my powerful hand!


Deu 32:40 Now I raise my hand to heaven
and declare, "As surely as I live,



Deu 32:41 when I sharpen my flashing sword
and begin to carry out justice,I will take revenge on my enemies
and repay those who reject me.



Deu 32:42 I will make my arrows drunk with blood,
and my sword will devour flesh—
the blood of the slaughtered and the captives,
and the heads of the enemy leaders."'


Deu 32:43 "Rejoice with him, you heavens,
and let all of God's angels worship him.
Rejoice with his people, you nations,
and let all the angels be strengthened in him.
For he will avenge the blood of his servants;
he will take revenge against his enemies.
He will repay those who hate him
and cleanse the land for his people."  


  Since this is about Gods justice  , one of the most powerful  chapters in the old testament  is Deut 32   
  It explains alot

  Life is in the blood  , and that is why  blood was required [life]   
its is God whom kills and makes alive 
  no flesh or blood inherits the kingdom 

    you are gods [heavenly beings ] and  will die like men
   seems every [tree]  mans ideas  of knowledge of good and evil   , not planted by the Lord will be  plucked up by the roots and burned in the fire
 
To me that just means they will NOT  continue  in this power to destroy what belongs to God ,and not acknowledge Him as the  Supreme    RULER    humbling them   and powerless  and this is His justice  in the earth


Psa 82:1 A psalm of Asaph.

God presides over heaven's court;
he pronounces judgment on the heavenly beings:



Psa 82:2 "How long will you hand down unjust decisions
by favoring the wicked?



Psa 82:3 "Give justice to the poor and the orphan;
uphold the rights of the oppressed and the destitute.



Psa 82:4 Rescue the poor and helpless;
deliver them from the grasp of evil people.



Psa 82:5 But these oppressors know nothing;
they are so ignorant!
They wander about in darkness,while the whole world is shaken to the core.



Psa 82:6 I say, 'You are gods;
you are all children of the Most High.



Psa 82:7 But you will die like mere mortals
and fall like every other ruler.'"



Psa 82:8 Rise up, O God, and judge the earth,
for all the nations belong to you. 


   the mortal  is temporary and imortal is  never ending      , it what you put  stock / trust in   building upon

[rosered]

 

  Guess  simply put  , God is  not going to put up with any opposers    and avenge    those  whom are doing Gods will and  doing good and  acknowledging and pleasing God   in the earth [their life /blood ]  the abels 
  and  we got to  remember even Jesus whom all things are being gathered into   is also   fair and just and true     , those trees planted in righteouness   cannot be  destroyed but changed  to be  just like Him .

  if you live by the sword you will die also by the same sword / Word of God

[Seth]

  Guess  simply put  , God is  not going to put up with any opposers    and avenge    those  whom are doing Gods will and  doing good and  acknowledging and pleasing God   in the earth [their life /blood ]  the abels 
  and  we got to  remember even Jesus whom all things are being gathered into   is also   fair and just and true     , those trees planted in righteouness   cannot be  destroyed but changed  to be  just like Him .

  if you live by the sword you will die also by the same sword / Word of God

Amen Rose  :thumbsup:

[ed]

Deu 32 ;34 "The LORD says, 'Am I not storing up these things,
sealing them away in my treasury?



Deu 32:35 I will take revenge; I will pay them back.
In due time their feet will slip.
Their day of disaster will arrive,
and their destiny will overtake them.'



Deu 32:36 "Indeed, the LORD will give justice to his people,
and he will change his mind about  his servants,
when he sees their strength is gone
and no one is left, slave or free.



Deu 32:37 Then he will ask, 'Where are their gods,
the rocks they fled to for refuge?


Deu 32:38 Where now are those gods,
who ate the fat of their sacrifices
and drank the wine of their offerings?
Let those gods arise and help you!
Let them provide you with shelter!



Deu 32:39 Look now; I myself am he!
There is no other god but me!
I am the one who kills and gives life;
I am the one who wounds and heals;no one can be rescued from my powerful hand!


Deu 32:40 Now I raise my hand to heaven
and declare, "As surely as I live,



Deu 32:41 when I sharpen my flashing sword
and begin to carry out justice,I will take revenge on my enemies
and repay those who reject me.



Deu 32:42 I will make my arrows drunk with blood,
and my sword will devour flesh—
the blood of the slaughtered and the captives,
and the heads of the enemy leaders."'


Deu 32:43 "Rejoice with him, you heavens,
and let all of God's angels worship him.
Rejoice with his people, you nations,
and let all the angels be strengthened in him.
For he will avenge the blood of his servants;
he will take revenge against his enemies.
He will repay those who hate him
and cleanse the land for his people."  


  Since this is about Gods justice  , one of the most powerful  chapters in the old testament  is Deut 32   
  It explains alot

  Life is in the blood  , and that is why  blood was required [life]   
its is God whom kills and makes alive 
  no flesh or blood inherits the kingdom 

    you are gods [heavenly beings ] and  will die like men
   seems every [tree]  mans ideas  of knowledge of good and evil   , not planted by the Lord will be  plucked up by the roots and burned in the fire
 
To me that just means they will NOT  continue  in this power to destroy what belongs to God ,and not acknowledge Him as the  Supreme    RULER    humbling them   and powerless  and this is His justice  in the earth


Psa 82:1 A psalm of Asaph.

God presides over heaven's court;
he pronounces judgment on the heavenly beings:



Psa 82:2 "How long will you hand down unjust decisions
by favoring the wicked?



Psa 82:3 "Give justice to the poor and the orphan;
uphold the rights of the oppressed and the destitute.



Psa 82:4 Rescue the poor and helpless;
deliver them from the grasp of evil people.



Psa 82:5 But these oppressors know nothing;
they are so ignorant!
They wander about in darkness,while the whole world is shaken to the core.



Psa 82:6 I say, 'You are gods;
you are all children of the Most High.



Psa 82:7 But you will die like mere mortals
and fall like every other ruler.'"



Psa 82:8 Rise up, O God, and judge the earth,
for all the nations belong to you. 


   the mortal  is temporary and imortal is  never ending      , it what you put  stock / trust in   building upon

WOW.

LOL

rosered I really appreciate the heart you put into the word..................after the word has hit your heart.

.

[Seth]

Who needs understanding???  I ask in perfect honesty, because doesn't understanding dilute trust. Adam abd Eve fell because they saught understanding instead of faithful trust.

I don't believe understanding dilutes trust. For me, it has only strengthened trust. Just my thoughts. Adam and Eve fell because they disobeyed God. God never said that he would not have them knowing good and evil, or that he wouldn't grant them understanding, but they attempted to do so by superseding his commandments, going around them, rather than staying in the commandment where they belonged.

[rosered]

    Blessings Julie Seth and Ed .,,

Thank you for your time and considerations ! 
Means alot 


Seth I agree  its the direct   with knowledge  of  disobedience that  , put the Law of God into action .

  and the  result of   the  tree  knowledge of good and evil     has   the blessing and cursings  in it

   the whole world lies in wickedness 

  this is  the corruption    and  reaping as the sowing
   state , look around  and we see Gods Word is true!!!


This Is Why we Believe and obey !!   to me when we pray to GOD for His will to be done  in our earth[earthly bodies ]  as it is in Heaven   and pray for those whom are needing God to also come though Jesus Christ to be kept  by and in Him    we are asking for a just judgement  of God to come   and  destroy what is corrupting  our earth[ anyones bodies ]  and make it new  and right with  God  , by being protected in Jesus Christ [His body]  hid in Christ till the overflowing refuge has past ..



Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.


1Jo 5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lies in wickedness. If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. 
1Jo 5:17   All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death. 

1Jo 5:18 ¶ We know that whosoever is born of God sins not; but he that is begotten of God keeps himself, and that wicked one touches him not.    1Jo 5:19   And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lies in wickedness. 


1Jo 5:20   And we know that the Son of God is come, and has given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. 


1Jo 5:21   Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

   when the world lies in wickedness    its  important to LIFT UP THE LORD JESUS CHRIST !    that salvation comes    If I be lifted up I will draw all men unto ME!

There is no name under heaven by which you MUST be saved !

  its simple and plain and  truthful  as can be    that  a little child CAN understand it   :dsunny:

[sheila]

I was told many many years ago....'you can learn the easier way..by listening to me..or you

can learn the hard way,but learn you will."  He also says, I will teach you and lead you in the way

that is best for you.   Jesus was perfected..and learned obiedience through suffering.

  you see..we can suffer as evil doers...but we can also suffer for obedience[see Job's trial]

   God saw that those who turned awa from evil,become as prey in the earth

   to 'grow' unto maturity is a learning expierence...with both positive and negative  .........

  oftentimes we learn through our failures..painful lessons. But we also need to do His

commandments[learn obedience] and we do this through suffering for righteousness sake.

    he who suffers for righteousness sake has turned from sin.  Perfection of the spirit comes

from suffering for righteousness sake[for the benefit for other's..even though it is 'unjust'

otherwise..people ma avoid sin just to avoid painful consequences of it[like pavlov's dog..

where everytime he approaches certain item is shocked..will be conditioned to avoid d/t

painful consequence] the perfection of the spirit,of which Jesus said; ye must be perfect as

your Father in heaven is perfect..freely forgive.... avoidance of the ee for an eye mentality..or

venegeance...should make us reconsider what God really means when He says..'venegeance is

mine"  Love and merc triumphs over judgement!   the perfection that God is seeking in the spirit

from His children did not and could not be accomplished through the law.....the perfection comes

of the spirit of love[perfect bond of union] for God and all mankind.  It goes far and above

the 'law'..there is no law against it.  actually the law reveals the lack of love..for God and all

mankind.  the failure to miss the mark of the High calling is failing in the maturity depth,width

of the love of God. God seeks after this in His creatures. The willingness to suffer for the benefit of

others ..in obedience to Christ and Father,in love.

  the reconciliation of ALL requires this...a not counting sins tresspasses against others....a

whole lot of forgiveness of things suffered will have to take place........and it will all be as nothing

  just as Jacob counted the 14 yrs of labour for Rachael..as nothing.....this is the joy that Christ

had before Him that he endured a torture stake for.

   No wrongs done to any down here are going to matter..they are all going to be forgotten..as

nothing,as incosequential....Just as a mother forgets her biirthpangs for joy that the child

is here!
  YOU MUST FORGIVE THOSE WHO TRESSPASS AGAINST YOU..OR FATHER WILL NOT FORGIVE


YOU YOUR"E TRESSPASSES. OUR FIRST FATHER ADAM TRESSpassed against God
TOOK WHAT WAS Not his in the garden.

the spirit creature is about love and forgiveness..it..is  about love



Now is the time to forgive..from the heart..all men...Father forgive themmm

[rosered]

    Very well said Shelia !! :thumbsup:

   
    forgive and be forgiven       putting on the perfect bond of Unity in Christ    ,as we see with   natural eyes the consequences of   disobedience   in the earth    knowing its temporary     :sigh:


¶ I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, 


Eph 4:2   With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; 


Eph 4:3   Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 


Eph 4:4   There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 


Eph 4:5   One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 


Eph 4:6   One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all

  as we patiently wait on the Lord to gather all things into Himself  :HeartThrob:

[sheila]

is there a 'spirit' of wickedness in a High Place[throne of Christ] in any of us? such as the man

whose tresspasses were freely forgiven...then demanded 'justice' for the man who was in debt

to him?

  do we want a lying cheating pair of scales..with large measures of grace for ourselves

and the law for other's...I saw satan fall like lightening from heaven........as lightening shines

across the sky from one end of it to another..so will the coming of the Son of Man be[ the lawless

one shall be revealed..and He shall do away with him at the breath of His coming. } 

the accusor of the brethern..who accuses them da and night before the Lord[at the throne] is cast

unto the earth.  the satan,knowing that his time is short...was WRATHFUL...pursued the woman..and opened

his mouth an spewed forth floodwaters..to tr and wash the woman awa of the floodwaters........

   but the earth opened it's mouth and swallowed up the waters of the dragon..........

   do we really want to demand 'justice" for mankind..over mercy and grace?............I don't.

   

[rosered]

 

  Yes ,  Shelia I do believe God will cut it short in righteouness !!! :thumbsup:
love romans  9  proving God is merciful     to ALL   NLT    Like Paul here hated to see the suffering of his pepole and yet never lost heart that God would   show mercy to all in the end

Rom 9:1 With Christ as my witness, I speak with utter truthfulness. My conscience and the Holy Spirit confirm it. 


Rom 9:2 My heart is filled with bitter sorrow and unending grief 


Rom 9:3 for my people, my Jewish brothers and sisters.  I would be willing to be forever cursed—cut off from Christ!—if that would save them. 


Rom 9:4 They are the people of Israel, chosen to be God's adopted children.  God revealed his glory to them. He made covenants with them and gave them his law. He gave them the privilege of worshiping him and receiving his wonderful promises. 


Rom 9:5 Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are their ancestors, and Christ himself was an Israelite as far as his human nature is concerned. And he is God, the one who rules over everything and is worthy of eternal praise! Amen.   


Rom 9:6 Well then, has God failed to fulfill his promise to Israel? No, for not all who are born into the nation of Israel are truly members of God's people! 


Rom 9:7 Being descendants of Abraham doesn't make them truly Abraham's children. For the Scriptures say, "Isaac is the son through whom your descendants will be counted,"  though Abraham had other children, too. 


Rom 9:8 This means that Abraham's physical descendants are not necessarily children of God. Only the children of the promise are considered to be Abraham's children. 


Rom 9:9 For God had promised, "I will return about this time next year, and Sarah will have a son." [fn] 


Rom 9:10 This son was our ancestor Isaac. When he married Rebekah, she gave birth to twins. [fn] 


Rom 9:11 But before they were born, before they had done anything good or bad, she received a message from God. (This message shows that God chooses people according to his own purposes; 


Rom 9:12 he calls people, but not according to their good or bad works.) She was told, "Your older son will serve your younger son." 


Rom 9:13 In the words of the Scriptures, "I loved Jacob, but I rejected Esau."   


Rom 9:14 Are we saying, then, that God was unfair? Of course not! 
Rom 9:15 For God said to Moses,
"I will show mercy to anyone I choose,
and I will show compassion to anyone I choose."   


Rom 9:16 So it is God who decides to show mercy. We can neither choose it nor work for it. 
Rom 9:17 For the Scriptures say that God told Pharaoh, "I have appointed you for the very purpose of displaying my power in you and to spread my fame throughout the earth." [fn] 


Rom 9:18 So you see, God chooses to show mercy to some, and he chooses to harden the hearts of others so they refuse to listen. 


Rom 9:19 Well then, you might say, "Why does God blame people for not responding? Haven't they simply done what he makes them do?"   


Rom 9:20 No, don't say that. Who are you, a mere human being, to argue with God? Should the thing that was created say to the one who created it, "Why have you made me like this?" 


Rom 9:21 When a potter makes jars out of clay, doesn't he have a right to use the same lump of clay to make one jar for decoration and another to throw garbage into? 


Rom 9:22 In the same way, even though God has the right to show his anger and his power, he is very patient with those on whom his anger falls, who are destined for destruction. 


Rom 9:23 He does this to make the riches of his glory shine even brighter on those to whom he shows mercy, who were prepared in advance for glory. 


Rom 9:24 And we are among those whom he selected, both from the Jews and from the Gentiles. 


Rom 9:25 Concerning the Gentiles, God says in the prophecy of Hosea,
"Those who were not my people,
I will now call my people.
And I will love those
whom I did not love before."   


Rom 9:26 And,
"Then, at the place where they were told,
'You are not my people,'
there they will be called
'children of the living God.'"   


Rom 9:27 And concerning Israel, Isaiah the prophet cried out,
"Though the people of Israel are as numerous as the sand of the seashore,
only a remnant will be saved.



Rom 9:28 For the LORD will carry out his sentence upon the earth
quickly and with finality."   



Rom 9:29 And Isaiah said the same thing in another place:
"If the LORD of Heaven's Armies
had not spared a few of our children,
we would have been wiped out like Sodom,
destroyed like Gomorrah."   


Rom 9:30 What does all this mean? Even though the Gentiles were not trying to follow God's standards, they were made right with God. And it was by faith that this took place. 

Rom 9:31 But the people of Israel, who tried so hard to get right with God by keeping the law, never succeeded. 
Rom 9:32 Why not? Because they were trying to get right with God by keeping the law  instead of by trusting in him. They stumbled over the great rock in their path. 


Rom 9:33 God warned them of this in the Scriptures when he said,
"I am placing a stone in Jerusalem  that makes people stumble,
a rock that makes them fall.
But anyone who trusts in him
will never be disgraced." 

[micah7:9]

"...we are asking for a just judgement  of God to come   and  destroy what is corrupting  our earth[ anyones bodies ] ..." {Rosered}

Rom 9:18  so, then, to whom He willeth, He doth kindness, and to whom He willeth, He doth harden.
Rom 9:19  Thou wilt say, then, to me, `Why yet doth He find fault? for His counsel who hath resisted?'
Rom 9:20  nay, but, O man, who art thou that art answering again to God? shall the thing formed say to Him who did form it , Why me didst thou make thus?
Perhaps I misunderstood. :Peace2:

"...like pavlov's dog.." {Shelia}
Pavlov's dog? You got me there. :Chinscratch:

[micah7:9]

""Yeah sure, many think my wonderful church  is just another new age cult, but it isn't." (JulieTang)

This just "spooked" me, that's just me though. :dsunny:

[rosered]

"...we are asking for a just judgement  of God to come   and  destroy what is corrupting  our earth[ anyones bodies ] ..." {Rosered}

Rom 9:18  so, then, to whom He willeth, He doth kindness, and to whom He willeth, He doth harden.
Rom 9:19  Thou wilt say, then, to me, `Why yet doth He find fault? for His counsel who hath resisted?'
Rom 9:20  nay, but, O man, who art thou that art answering again to God? shall the thing formed say to Him who did form it , Why me didst thou make thus?
Perhaps I misunderstood. :Peace2:

"...like pavlov's dog.." {Shelia}
Pavlov's dog? You got me there. :Chinscratch:

  Hi Micah  ,   This Is Why we Believe and obey !! 

to me when we pray to GOD for His will to be done  in our earth[earthly bodies ]  as it is in Heaven 


and pray for those whom are needing God to also come though Jesus Christ to be kept by and in Him   


we are asking for a just judgement  of God to come   and  destroy what is corrupting  our earth[ anyones bodies ]  and make it new  and right with  God  ,

by being protected in Jesus Christ [His body]  hid in Christ till the overflowing refuge has past ..
   


  Maybe not the best wording   , I will try to express this in  clearer  terms
  Some of the biggest battles   to me  are dealing within ourselves 
  this time of asking God to  help and   remove an evil  thought or nature within us that   to me is   the same thing Jesus said   the Lords prayer ,Teaching us  when you pray   
Our Father  who is in heaven  hallowed be  your name , your kingdom  come  , your will be done on earth as it is in heaven 

  you see that sets in motion to me  Gods judgments  as well as His blessings
  He chastens and scourges every son that is recieved  into His Kingdom ...
As a Good Father does   
NLT   

Mat 6:1 "Watch out! Don't do your good deeds publicly, to be admired by others, for you will lose the reward from your Father in heaven. 


Mat 6:2 When you give to someone in need, don't do as the hypocrites do—blowing trumpets in the synagogues and streets to call attention to their acts of charity! I tell you the truth, they have received all the reward they will ever get. 


Mat 6:3 But when you give to someone in need, don't let your left hand know what your right hand is doing. 


Mat 6:4 Give your gifts in private, and your Father, who sees everything, will reward you. 


Mat 6:5 "When you pray, don't be like the hypocrites who love to pray publicly on street corners and in the synagogues where everyone can see them. I tell you the truth, that is all the reward they will ever get. 


Mat 6:6 But when you pray, go away by yourself, shut the door behind you, and pray to your Father in private. Then your Father, who sees everything, will reward you. 


Mat 6:7 "When you pray, don't babble on and on as people of other religions do. They think their prayers are answered merely by repeating their words again and again.   


Mat 6:8 Don't be like them, for your Father knows exactly what you need even before you ask him! 
Mat 6:9 Pray like this:
Our Father in heaven,
may your name be kept holy.


Mat 6:10 May your Kingdom come soon.
May your will be done on earth,
as it is in heaven.


Mat 6:11 Give us today the food we need, 
Mat 6:12 and forgive us our sins,
as we have forgiven those who sin against us.


Mat 6:13 And don't let us yield to temptation, but rescue us from the evil one.   


Mat 6:14 "If you forgive those who sin against you, your heavenly Father will forgive you.    Mat 6:15 But if you refuse to forgive others, your Father will not forgive your sins. 

       Its never a good thing to  let bitterness take a root   within  , its hard to bear it 
when you  let it go and forgive , your not holding   that    hard nature and heart   anylonger and Letting God do  His wonderful work within  and others to will be blessed   by seeing  it
   to me hate breeds  more  hatred  and shame comes with that , hiding     not facing them anymore and avoidance
but Love covers    your [  sin ] nakedness as well as  covering your enemies   that they will be ashamed for acting such ways
  taking on the   holy and pure nature of Christ   that they too will  desire  to please the Lord

Hope this was clearer     :dsunny:

[rosered]

http://www.simplypsychology.org/pavlov.html

  to help explain Pavlovs dogs , Shelia hope you dont mind  me putting up this link 

[micah7:9]

"...we are asking for a just judgement  of God to come   and  destroy what is corrupting  our earth[ anyones bodies ] ..." {Rosered}

Rom 9:18  so, then, to whom He willeth, He doth kindness, and to whom He willeth, He doth harden.
Rom 9:19  Thou wilt say, then, to me, `Why yet doth He find fault? for His counsel who hath resisted?'
Rom 9:20  nay, but, O man, who art thou that art answering again to God? shall the thing formed say to Him who did form it , Why me didst thou make thus?
Perhaps I misunderstood. :Peace2:

"...like pavlov's dog.." {Shelia}
Pavlov's dog? You got me there. :Chinscratch:

  Hi Micah  ,   This Is Why we Believe and obey !! 

to me when we pray to GOD for His will to be done  in our earth[earthly bodies ]  as it is in Heaven 


and pray for those whom are needing God to also come though Jesus Christ to be kept by and in Him   


we are asking for a just judgement  of God to come   and  destroy what is corrupting  our earth[ anyones bodies ]  and make it new  and right with  God  ,

by being protected in Jesus Christ [His body]  hid in Christ till the overflowing refuge has past ..
   


  Maybe not the best wording   , I will try to express this in  clearer  terms
  Some of the biggest battles   to me  are dealing within ourselves 
  this time of asking God to  help and   remove an evil  thought or nature within us that   to me is   the same thing Jesus said   the Lords prayer ,Teaching us  when you pray   
Our Father  who is in heaven  hallowed be  your name , your kingdom  come  , your will be done on earth as it is in heaven 

  you see that sets in motion to me  Gods judgments  as well as His blessings
  He chastens and scourges every son that is recieved  into His Kingdom ...
As a Good Father does   
NLT   

Mat 6:1 "Watch out! Don't do your good deeds publicly, to be admired by others, for you will lose the reward from your Father in heaven. 


Mat 6:2 When you give to someone in need, don't do as the hypocrites do—blowing trumpets in the synagogues and streets to call attention to their acts of charity! I tell you the truth, they have received all the reward they will ever get. 


Mat 6:3 But when you give to someone in need, don't let your left hand know what your right hand is doing. 


Mat 6:4 Give your gifts in private, and your Father, who sees everything, will reward you. 


Mat 6:5 "When you pray, don't be like the hypocrites who love to pray publicly on street corners and in the synagogues where everyone can see them. I tell you the truth, that is all the reward they will ever get. 


Mat 6:6 But when you pray, go away by yourself, shut the door behind you, and pray to your Father in private. Then your Father, who sees everything, will reward you. 


Mat 6:7 "When you pray, don't babble on and on as people of other religions do. They think their prayers are answered merely by repeating their words again and again.   


Mat 6:8 Don't be like them, for your Father knows exactly what you need even before you ask him! 
Mat 6:9 Pray like this:
Our Father in heaven,
may your name be kept holy.


Mat 6:10 May your Kingdom come soon.
May your will be done on earth,
as it is in heaven.


Mat 6:11 Give us today the food we need, 
Mat 6:12 and forgive us our sins,
as we have forgiven those who sin against us.


Mat 6:13 And don't let us yield to temptation, but rescue us from the evil one.   


Mat 6:14 "If you forgive those who sin against you, your heavenly Father will forgive you.    Mat 6:15 But if you refuse to forgive others, your Father will not forgive your sins. 

       Its never a good thing to  let bitterness take a root   within  , its hard to bear it 
when you  let it go and forgive , your not holding   that    hard nature and heart   anylonger and Letting God do  His wonderful work within  and others to will be blessed   by seeing  it
   to me hate breeds  more  hatred  and shame comes with that , hiding     not facing them anymore and avoidance
but Love covers    your [  sin ] nakedness as well as  covering your enemies   that they will be ashamed for acting such ways
  taking on the   holy and pure nature of Christ   that they too will  desire  to please the Lord

Hope this was clearer     :dsunny:

It's probably just me, but it seems like what you say, is you are trying to turn His head rather than just going with how He set it all in motion.
I, me, personally hear a lot about winning souls in theology and christian religion, but the Bible is absent on this theme, as far as I have read.
I just have been given to understand, just walk and when called, listen, yield  and go from there. Perhaps I am in error, because I, that's me, personally don't get much done, when I used to try, when I got off my knees, to do what I felt I accomplished in all my words of praise and thanks, added to naught and I would get, well upset. I have found it best to just wait.....I am in waiting, but I want to do more! Hope I was somewhat clear. :dsunny:

[micah7:9]

http://www.simplypsychology.org/pavlov.html

  to help explain Pavlovs dogs , Shelia hope you dont mind  me putting up this link

Oh, I don't really care about Pavlovs dog(s) I sorry. :banana:

[rosered]

It's probably just me, but it seems like what you say, is you are trying to turn His head rather than just going with how He set it all in motion.
I, me, personally hear a lot about winning souls in theology and christian religion, but the Bible is absent on this theme, as far as I have read.
I just have been given to understand, just walk and when called, listen, yield  and go from there. Perhaps I am in error, because I, that's me, personally don't get much done, when I used to try, when I got off my knees, to do what I felt I accomplished in all my words of praise and thanks, added to naught and I would get, well upset. I have found it best to just wait.....I am in waiting, but I want to do more! Hope I was somewhat clear.

   Yes you were clear   Micah ,

   Maybe its simple ,
you just have  to talk to  the Lord  and make it really personal  , that kind of relationship     is valuable  and humbling  and dear , it not anything you want everyone to know about  , intimate

  I dont think we   should ever try to impress mankind  by acting holy , God knows our hearts  , but wants us to know  it as well , if we think   that is what   The Lord Jesus wants from us
   than the joke is on us    , we are only fooling ourselves   :sigh:

[micah7:9]

I rest.  :dsunny:

[sheila]

the promised seed is a blessing to all the nations[not a curse] thus He instructs Bless and curse not..


  Psalms 109  there is one who wears cursing as a garment.....he is the accusor......they may

curse but you will Bless.

     never forget God's justice..for all men were dead[Adam in corrupt image] and all shall be

    raised up in Christ's incorruptible image[Grace]

  ou see..He demands all the fruit of the Hol spirit[all men] nothing less shall suffice

   mercy compassion and grace are fruits of the Holy spirit....you can be righteous and not possess

mercy and grace[under the law men died without mercy]  but He wants all the fruit!!

  is love,love without mercy compassion and undeserved kindness?  nope!

   we have many that preach a 'gospel?' of cursing on men..eternal torture etc..accusations

against men and condemnation. Psalms 09;18 nhe wore cursing as his garment; it entered into

his body like water..into his bones like oil...

   the new covenant,new creature,new earth=no more curse.....

   it is under the law that the Blessings and cursings come...but if you have faith the size of a mustard seed..ye can say to this mountain..be removed and cast into the sea[babylon...teach

these little ones to err/sin fall short of the  fullness of Christ