What is the lake of fire

[marie glen]

A lot of great posts here..

LOF, the 2nd dying.. after this 1st phrase, please bear with me, and fully read the 2nd.. I believe the LOF is annihilation (!) But, I don't believe any living being goes there! other than "the devil" for an age [the others, of rev 19:20, the beast (the big/global one as opposed to the little one whose # we have) and the false prophet/teaching (which turned western civilization on its ear) are institutions of man, not living beings, and there is no time reference given for these, thus annihilation and "no more"].

..not a burning.. not pain, torture..

but in this age's last days, a lake of oil, burning (results of mankind/our deeds and doing, LOF as reality vs dross).. and/or thermo-nuclear power (seal6, seals described as a blend of what is when begins, and what is when fully matured, hides/locks the vision for many days)

also after the devil/opposer is let out of the abyss (of darkness/imperfection-being a potential bottomless pit of potentiality) and deceives the nations.. gog and magog.. to surround the camp of the saints and the beloved city.. and fire flashes from the heavens and devours them.. another 'lake'/thermal-nuclear type.. then the new city and God illumines it, doesn't need sun nor moon, and the lamb is its lamp.. and the water of life like crystal (in purity).. behold I come quickly.. blessed r those who heed the words of the prophecy.. but outside the purity.. .."nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come in (for as in the days of Moses, "our God is a consuming fire"/purity) but only those" (who believe) "whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life."

[Tom]

I have trouble envisioning the lake of fire. Is it the second death ? Does God kill people in it only to raise them again?

Jock

http://concordant.org/expohtml/DeathAndJudgment/TheLakeOfFire.html

[eaglesway]

A lot of great posts here..

LOF, the 2nd dying.. after this 1st phrase, please bear with me, and fully read the 2nd.. I believe the LOF is annihilation (!) But, I don't believe any living being goes there! other than "the devil" for an age [the others, of rev 19:20, the beast (the big/global one as opposed to the little one whose # we have) and the false prophet/teaching (which turned western civilization on its ear) are institutions of man, not living beings, and there is no time reference given for these, thus annihilation and "no more"].

..not a burning.. not pain, torture..

but in this age's last days, a lake of oil, burning (results of mankind/our deeds and doing, LOF as reality vs dross).. and/or thermo-nuclear power (seal6, seals described as a blend of what is when begins, and what is when fully matured, hides/locks the vision for many days)

also after the devil/opposer is let out of the abyss (of darkness/imperfection-being a potential bottomless pit of potentiality) and deceives the nations.. gog and magog.. to surround the camp of the saints and the beloved city.. and fire flashes from the heavens and devours them.. another 'lake'/thermal-nuclear type.. then the new city and God illumines it, doesn't need sun nor moon, and the lamb is its lamp.. and the water of life like crystal (in purity).. behold I come quickly.. blessed r those who heed the words of the prophecy.. but outside the purity.. .."nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come in (for as in the days of Moses, "our God is a consuming fire"/purity) but only those" (who believe) "whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life."

I believe it is annihilation too. The annihilation of every stronghold and every tower that exalts itself above the true knowledge of God. Kolassis, correction, "in the presence of God and His holy messengers". I see it as a divine "intervention" on behalf of those addicted to self, and the "fire and brimstone"(theon) is the love and light and wisdom of God burning through veils until "every hidden thing is revealed". As Paul said, "Everything that is brought to light becomes light".

Remember how it says "And they were baptized by John in the Jordan river and they were confessing their sins". The Pharisees were amazed at this. This is the work of God's grace, the I AM- to bring everyone into total honesty WITHOUT FEAR.

Not earthly flames. Flames of the fire of God from within Jesus- "and His eyes were as flames of fire". The eye is the lamp of the soul. So let your light shine before men so that when they see your good works they will glorify God in the Day"- get it? :o) No ye not you shall judge angels? :o)

[Seth]

I have trouble envisioning the lake of fire. Is it the second death ? Does God kill people in it only to raise them again?

Jock

Hi Jock. It's not physical death. The Lake of Fire and Gehenna (the Valley of Hinnom) are the same thing. Physically, Gehenna was external to ancient Jerusalem. Spiritually, Gehenna is outside New Jerusalem, as "the lake of fire."

Watch how James interprets Gehenna:

James 3:4-6
Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth.

The tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth! And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of The Valley of Hinnom.

Being engaged in a "world of iniquity" the tonue is a fire which defiles the whole body. When that happens the WHOLE BODY is set on fire of gehenna, all "members" of the body, the hands, the feet, the eyes, everything.

Gehenna is the destructive force of sin, and God will use that as a judgment upon people to humble them. In other words, the Prodigal Son was destroyed in the furnace of his own iniquity until he was humbled and remembered his father unto repentance.

Romans 1:18,24
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness.....Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

They "exchanged the truth for a lie." Sounds like "strong delusion" right?

2 Thessalonians 2:8-12
God shall send them (the wicked) strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned (krino - judged) who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


That is the Lake of Fire. It will result in repentance for everyone.

[WhiteWings]

Hi Seth!  :friendstu:

James 3:4-6
Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth.

The tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth! And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of The Valley of Hinnom.

Very interesting verses.

Being engaged in a "world of iniquity" the tonue is a fire which defiles the whole body. When that happens the WHOLE BODY is set on fire of gehenna, all "members" of the body, the hands, the feet, the eyes, everything.

Like leaven.

[Seth]

HI WhiteWings  :banana:

Like leaven.

Yes, exactly. Like leaven. Check it out:

Hosea 7:1-7
Their (Israel's) sins engulf them; they are always before me.

Compare to (tormented in the presence of the Lamb). Though they pleasure in sin, eventually the house built on sand will fall....

"They delight the king with their wickedness, the princes with their lies. They are all adulterers, burning like an oven whose fire the baker need not stir from the kneading of the dough till it rises. On the day of the festival of our king, the princes become inflamed with wine, and he joins hands with the mockers.

Their hearts are like an oven; they approach him with intrigue. Their passion smolders all night; in the morning it blazes like a flaming fire.

All of them are hot as an oven; they devour their rulers. All their kings fall, and none of them calls on me.

It's a bad leaven, for bad bread, heated in a bad oven, which itself is heated by a bad flaming fire. We want good leaven, for good bread, so our hearts will be heated by a good fire, even through the fiery trials of faith.

1 Thess 3
1 Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you,
2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.
3 While people are saying, "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.
4 But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief.

This "Day of the Lord" is not just for Jews who rejected Jesus via 70AD. Paul is warning CHRISTIANS to be vigilant that such destruction will not come upon THEM.

It's an interesting description: as labor pains on a pregnant woman (which my wife will attest to you are SEVERE) while nonetheless leading to life. Compare these labor pains to the below scripture concerning "the day of the Lord"

1 Cor 5:1-4
It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man is sleeping with his father's wife. And you are proud! Shouldn't you rather have gone into mourning and have put out of your fellowship the man who has been doing this? For my part, even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. As one who is present with you in this way, I have already passed judgment in the name of our Lord Jesus on the one who has been doing this.

So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.

I do see a lot of "peace and safety" being preached in UR these days around the web concerning the meaning of the Gospel. Destruction of the flesh by Satan unto spiritual salvation "on the day of the Lord" is not peace and safety. That's a HARD trial. Labor pains are SEVERE. Anyone with kids, ask your wives. I was in the delivery room. I don't even need to ask.   :mfrown:

This can be avoided by vigilance and living in the daylight, not sleeping in the night, like the man committing sexual immorality. For the time will come when he will separate the wheat from the tares, and bind the tares up and throw them into the fire to be utterly destroyed (as Peter said in 2 Peter 2) "in their own corruption."

[marie glen]

A lot of great posts here..

LOF, the 2nd dying.. after this 1st phrase, please bear with me, and fully read the 2nd.. I believe the LOF is annihilation (!) But, I don't believe any living being goes there! other than "the devil" for an age [the others, of rev 19:20, the beast (the big/global one as opposed to the little one whose # we have) and the false prophet/teaching (which turned western civilization on its ear) are institutions of man, not living beings, and there is no time reference given for these, thus annihilation and "no more"].

..not a burning.. not pain, torture..

but in this age's last days, a lake of oil, burning (results of mankind/our deeds and doing, LOF as reality vs dross).. and/or thermo-nuclear power (seal6, seals described as a blend of what is when begins, and what is when fully matured, hides/locks the vision for many days)

also after the devil/opposer is let out of the abyss (of darkness/imperfection-being a potential bottomless pit of potentiality) and deceives the nations.. gog and magog.. to surround the camp of the saints and the beloved city.. and fire flashes from the heavens and devours them.. another 'lake'/thermal-nuclear type.. then the new city and God illumines it, doesn't need sun nor moon, and the lamb is its lamp.. and the water of life like crystal (in purity).. behold I come quickly.. blessed r those who heed the words of the prophecy.. but outside the purity.. .."nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come in (for as in the days of Moses, "our God is a consuming fire"/purity) but only those" (who believe) "whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life."

I believe it is annihilation too. The annihilation of every stronghold and every tower that exalts itself above the true knowledge of God. Kolassis, correction, "in the presence of God and His holy messengers". I see it as a divine "intervention" on behalf of those addicted to self, and the "fire and brimstone"(theon) is the love and light and wisdom of God burning through veils until "every hidden thing is revealed". As Paul said, "Everything that is brought to light becomes light".

Remember how it says "And they were baptized by John in the Jordan river and they were confessing their sins". The Pharisees were amazed at this. This is the work of God's grace, the I AM- to bring everyone into total honesty WITHOUT FEAR.

Not earthly flames. Flames of the fire of God from within Jesus- "and His eyes were as flames of fire". The eye is the lamp of the soul. So let your light shine before men so that when they see your good works they will glorify God in the Day"- get it? :o) No ye not you shall judge angels? :o)

:iagree: :smile:
VeRy well put!

...like the man committing sexual immorality. For the time will come when he will separate the wheat from the tares, and bind the tares up and throw them into the fire to be utterly destroyed (as Peter said in 2 Peter 2) "in their own corruption."

hi Seth, (your whole post was very excellent also) i think this too, in the quote, is a very important truth and "dividing of the Word".. The Old Testament "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge" - destroyed as a nation... someone is said to be destroyed if they lose all in business for example.. her or his "destruction" in a worldly (life collapse) sense.. But the translators all too often viewed all destroyed and destruction as ultimate doing away with! A thing which does not jive with the character of God nor the abilities of Him.

" the time will come when he will separate the wheat from the tares, and bind the tares up and throw them into the fire to be utterly destroyed (as Peter said in 2 Peter 2) "in their own corruption."

...and at His return (imo) when He comes with (both) fire and angels.. angels which we know "will gather His elect from all four winds.." and "fire" (I believe consequences of man's own doings, long history of wars, etc, culminating in man's splitting of the atom - {still per God's will of proving one cannot build on sand i.e. without YHWH, who is Life itself & all in all})
:smile: