Love/Hate

[jabcat]

I'm interested in peoples' perceptions and beliefs, and probably more than I should, I often read peoples' comments following news articles.  I've been made painfully aware of seemingly subtle, but actually drastic changes in society, including within the church.  I truly belive something sinister is at work, that it's a spiritual struggle, a "wrestling not with flesh and blood, but with powers and principalities in high places".  I believe one of the biggest tools being used is (of course) a lie.  Someone said, tell a lie often enough and people will eventually start to believe it.  IMO, the lie is this;  IF YOU DISAGREE WITH SOMETHING;  IF YOU BELIEVE WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT SOMETHING;  THEN YOU HATE.  You not only don't love, but you are a "HATER", a  "hypocrite", a "pharisee".  You're "hate-filled".  An attachment to that big lie is, as used against Christians on the blogs and article comment sections, is an out-of-context "your religion says do not judge".       I believe by constantly labeling concern, Godly belief, and a willingness to speak the truth - even IN LOVE - as hate and judging, we are succumbing, rolling over, giving in, being neutered - thus taking much of the standard of right and wrong out of things.  The result is, as the scriptures say, "everyone doing what is right in their own eyes", and "trading the truth for a lie", and "calling evil good and good evil". 

As far as resisting this and actively applying love in the scriptural way - speaking the truth in love, going to a brother to "pull him out of the fire" as Paul instructed - I personally probably err on the side of caution - or a better word, wimpiness.   I'm scared.  I don't want to offend.  I don't want to be seen as "intolerant", a "basher", or having a "phobia", or even "dangerous" as I've heard it described.  Do you know that publicly reading or posting I Corinthians 6, or Romans 1 is considered by many to be "hate speech"?  And that there is a push to outlaw such things?  I also don't want to be called a hypocrite because I have my own besetting sins and problems (although I realize that my inability to always do what God wants, doesn't invalidate what He wants).   

I fall WAY short.  I'm probably worse about it than many/most.  But as a precept, and something which to aspire, is it possible that true Godly love actually doesn't accept everyone and everything they're doing, but rather out of concern, is open for a leading of God to say "Jesus loves you, He wants to save us and deliver us from the things that hurt us and hurt Him.  He died for our sins.  Would you care for me to pray with you"?  I'm not talking about rejecting or condemning of any person, being cruel, telling them they're terrible, etc, etc.  I'm talking about being led by the Spirit, being willing to look at the hard issues that THE BIBLE CLEARLY POINT OUT TO US, and being willing to be HELPFUL by being used by the Spirit to help, rather than even approach what many are doing (such as the "affirming" churches, "inclusive" churches)  potentially doing more harm than good? 

Our love isn't what saves, it's His.  He may just go after a person directly, or, I believe He may see fit to use us, as we're willing to be an instrument of HIS love, pointing them to the One that does save.  I don't know exactly how to do this.  But is it possible that it's something to consider?  I do believe it's like watch/pray said recently, living and abiding in Him.  But doesn't that involve my not fighting against Him by my own stubborn beliefs - WHATEVER those might be - and following Him in every way possible [being open to and seeking the whole counsel of God, not focusing on only one aspect and blocking out the rest]?   Maybe others have Spirit-revealed, scripturally sound input that would help me/us to get better at it?  Also, as part of the process, isn't it worth being aware that just because the world defines love and hate in certain ways, doesn't make that so for the sons of God?

Blessings.

[Molly]

Loved your post, Jab.  We are not the ones who judge, it is God's word that judges.  But, if we are afraid to use God's word, and use our own, instead, I believe we not only anger God, but we bear a false witness.  I'm thinking along the lines of the two witnesses of the last 3.5 years being God's church that speaks his words to a world which definitely does not want to hear it. That is the fire that comes out of their mouths.   I was just reading this passage:


29 Is not my word like as a fire? saith the Lord; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?

30 Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, saith the Lord, that steal my words every one from his neighbour.

31 Behold, I am against the prophets, saith the Lord, that use their tongues, and say, He saith.

--Jer 23

[sheila]

...therefore judge nothing..wait til the appointed time;wait til the Lord comes. He will bring to light

  what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts.At that time each will

receive his praise from God..

and as far as Jeremiah goes...were all guilty of that..for He called us out of Babylon where we were preaching

eternal condemnation/torture on most men.Of which He has so informed us is a lie..saying 'God' saith"

false prophets indeed..teaching traditions of men and doctrines of demons.

[jabcat]

...therefore judge nothing..wait til the appointed time;wait til the Lord comes. He will bring to light

  what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts.At that time each will

Hi Sheila.  What do you think this means?  Do you think it means "say nothing"?  Or as I was trying to point out in the OP (and other places), that there's a difference between judging people and addressing issues (in love - I have to say that, or some will jump on it haha)?

I think of a time recently when you confronted a poster that he had a spirit of homosexuality, and attempted [helpful, I'm sure] correction of him.  I think I know the answer to this, but for purposes of discussion/clarification;  Were you judging him["before his time"] and condeming him/hating him, or were you acting out of true Godly love, which is speaking the truth and trying to help him?  Blessings.

[Molly]

I never preached those things, Sheila, nor believed them.

But, Jab is talking about parts of God's word being called hate speech by some and that is because they do not want to hear it.  It is God's word that condemns and judges them.  It is God's word that becomes a fire and a hammer to them.  This same fire hedges in God's church in the last 3.5 years, I'm thinking.  And, the world will rejoice when they are 'dead.'

[jabcat]

You may answer all this in your response sheila, but as Molly just said, "I'm thinking" too   :Chinscratch: :laugh:

"Judge nothing before its time" - scripture

"Do not judge lest you be judged" - scripture

Get the beam out your own eye first" - scripture



"Can't you even judge the simple matters?  I say this to shame you" - scripture

"I turned the man over to satan [due to his sin]" - scripture

"[If anyone's a believer and does such things (sin/deception/etc.)] don't even eat (fellowship) with such a one" - scripture

"Speak the truth in love" - scripture

"Go to your brother and talk with him [paraphrase] and so doing, pull him out of the fire" - scripture

These things must reconcile somehow, rather than contradict.  I'm thinking, but I don't believe this means roll over, accept anything and everything as OK, don't ever say a word - no matter what the scriptures say about it.     The pieces must fit somehow.

[Watch/Pray]

Loved your post, Jab.  We are not the ones who judge, it is God's word that judges.  But, if we are afraid to use God's word, and use our own, instead, I believe we not only anger God, but we bear a false witness.  I'm thinking along the lines of the two witnesses of the last 3.5 years being God's church that speaks his words to a world which definitely does not want to hear it. That is the fire that comes out of their mouths.   I was just reading this passage:


29 Is not my word like as a fire? saith the Lord; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?

30 Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, saith the Lord, that steal my words every one from his neighbour.

31 Behold, I am against the prophets, saith the Lord, that use their tongues, and say, He saith.

--Jer 23

Yes, Jabcat I really appreciate the thought-provoking (maybe should say "prayer-provoking; further study-provoking) post.

Molly, as always you bring such great Scriptures to the "table"...  my immediate response to the Jeremiah quote was... Oh my, I can use that Scripture to support my current opinion regarding "spiritual abortions"...  Forgive me, this will be sketchy.. I'm on borrowed time so to speak.  Limited time on the Internet...
Anyway, reading Matt 18:6 and Mark 9:42, has caused  me to be very careful how I use, speak God's written word... I believe the little ones Jesus is referring to are newly-born again believers...  I'm particularly concerned about what I post to any Christian forum... so many guests (perhaps many newly-born again believers) 
I also factor into my current opinion about "spiritual abortions"....  word is the seed... (Luke 8:11; Matt 13:19-23)  I really need further study...

[jabcat]

Thanks, blessings to all posting here.  Some really excellent thoughts and scripture.  Thank you.

watch/pray, while you were typing "prayer-provoking;  further prayer-provoking", I was looking for some way to reconcile that list of scriptures above re: judging/not judging.  This found me, and I think it hits some very crucial points, including stepping on my toes as often being a hypocrite - afraid to speak up - IN LOVE :).

Should Christians judge? Jesus commanded men to judge rightly and He told them to "judge not." Did the Lord contradict Himself? Or does the Bible say more about judging than Christians are generally taught?

Don't judge? But Jesus repeatedly taught men to judge rightly, insisting they "judge with righteous judgment" (John 7:24) and He praised a man who "rightly judged" (Luke 7:43). Paul shamed the Corinthian Christians because no one among them was willing to "judge the smallest matters" (1 Cor. 6:2). As the Apostle wrote, "He who is spiritual judges all things" for "we have the mind of Christ" (1 Cor. 2:15-16).

Where did we get the notion that men should never judge? Should child-molesters escape condemnation? Should rapists be free from criticism? Should society refrain from judging those arrested for murder? Why would anyone judge others for judging?  And if a pastor teaches "don't judge" regarding abortion and homosexuality, what would he say about a parishioner who doesn't donate but rather takes money out of the collection plate?

A lie has partially paralyzed the church. God warns against "hypocrisy" commanding men to "abhor what is evil" (Rom. 12:9). Yet to abhor evil, someone must first judge evil. Thus, unable to judge, large numbers of Christians become hypocrites by obeying the Hypocrites Golden Rule. Since the hypocrite doesn't want to be judged, he judges not, as Jesus said, "Judge not... you hypocrite" (Mat. 7:1, 5 KJV; Ezek. 16:52). For "judge not" (Mat. 7:1-5) is simply a hypocrites application of do unto others as you would have them do unto you (Mat. 7:12). "For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged" (Mat. 7:2). Judge others as you would have them do unto you inverted is Judge not if you do not want to be judged.

Christ kept repeating this theme in His ministry. "Hypocrites," Jesus said, "why, even of yourselves, do you not judge what is right?" (Luke 12:56-57). Still, His own followers have mostly ignored the Lord's harsh rebuke: "Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to [judge, i.e., to] remove the speck out of your brother's eye" (Mat. 7:5). "Judge Not" is the Hypocritical Oath.

Hollywood, Hillary, and Homosexuals repeat the phrase like a mantra, judge not, judge not, judge not, until the masses are mesmerized. Jesus did not intend this.

Scripture deals with topics that range from simple to advanced truth. Milk is for babes in Christ; meat is for men of God. The question of whether or not Christians should judge is milk. It is preschool. The newest believer taught any of a hundred passages would immediately understand that he must judge. Judging others is fundamental. It is not a difficult concept and should in no way be controversial.

The Church today is lactose intolerant and has trouble even with milk.
Extreme ignorance of the Bible has crippled the Church. Today, many believers are effectively saying, "Lord, thanks but no thanks. I'll pass on that judgment duty." But Paul responds, Start judging now, because you will need the practice (1Cor. 6:2-5). Remember, "He who is spiritual judges all things. For... we have the mind of Christ" (1 Cor. 2:15-16). For as the King James Version quotes Jesus, "ye... have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done" (Mat. 23:23). And God will reward those who judge, and do the hard work: "Those who rebuke the wicked will have delight, and a good blessing will come upon them." (Prov. 24:25).

Bob Enyart

[jabcat]

Iparts of God's word being called hate speech by some and that is because they do not want to hear it.  It is God's word that condemns and judges them.  It is God's word that becomes a fire and a hammer to them.  This same fire hedges in God's church in the last 3.5 years, I'm thinking.  And, the world will rejoice when they are 'dead.'

Very thought-provoking.  Jesus Himself said it's His Words that condemn.  That hurts our flesh, it cuts us - cuts us asunder, separating parts of us.  Who wants to hear it?  Yet Paul said don't despise the Lord's discipline.  As a dear sister recently said, if not for that, He says we'd be bastards and not sons. 

[sheila]

Hey Jab....I think He will weigh heart motive of everyone in this matter. He will know if it is dealt with in love.

  He will also know a homosexual's heart motive,too.He will also discern a heart of contmpt,arrogance

and religious pride.

It is true religious Babylon has been a hater..and

due to this..people are in general sick of the wars,persecutions and bloody battles fought in the name of

'God'  their sick of it..the hypocrisy,exclusivity..condemnation..arrogance etc. by holier than thou types

 


   there will be no boasting in the flesh of any men..that includes the 'elect'

   Molly

   then you are a very rare example............and babylon is infiltrated into things more then you know.

  there are two baskets of figs..one basket was sent off to Babylon and one wasn't[nothing personal-

just showing what's in the scriptures]

   yeah I know..but Paul saw through a glass darkly..and Jesus didn't. Jesus also ate with sinners....

   and was found fault with for doing it,by Pharisee types.


    I will take Jesus above any other if they appear a conflict..for God said 'This is my son,listen to Him..

in him I am well pleased.". two wittnesses God and Jesus .

   those that speak truth in love..God will know..those that don't God will know.

     Stop judging by mere appearances..is God counting men's sin against them or not..did Jesus pay

  the penalty of sin in flesh or not. is it grace or law?  that matter was Jesus healing on the Sabbath

a man....you could be circumcized on the Sabbath..to keep the law..but what about grace,could you

  break the sabbath to heal man...or do a good work...... they were judging by mere appearances.


   Everybody needs to do a google search on that Bob Enyart.........he's reading homosexual men's

obit's on the radio and calling them 'sodomites' and really hurting their families.  Got himself a radio

show.

   




   

[VineBranch]

The thing which usually stikes me when we talk about perceptions is that we really don't know.  Quite a few years ago now, I was walking back to my car from a restaurant, when I was approaced by a man.  He said he noticed that I was carrying a Bible (I was reading it during dinner).  He asked if I was a Christian.  I said I was.  He asked me ... 'could you pray for me'.  I stood next to him and he bowed his head, and I prayed what I was lead to say.  When it was over he said amen, smiled, and thanked me.  I never saw him again.  I've had people come up to me in restaurants, coffee shops, bus stops, at work etc.  They usually ask something about the Bible I'm carrying, or they overheard me say something to someone else, and then they move on.  I ask God to take care of them, and then I move on.  Sometimes God will put them on my heart, and ask me to pray for them.  Sometimes this happens at the weirdest times.  But I think part of that is God telling me He is still looking after them.  I was with them for five minutes, He is with them always.  I can't honestly say I care who thinks I'm what ... God thinks I'm fine, and sometimes asks me to spend some time with someone.

I also find it interesting the Paul wrote his letters to churches, not governments, not the committee to do this and that, or to any city council.  I think he got that when the church is okay, people come to it, because they see it has something they need.  I think once we stop acting like the world, the world sees the difference.  Some of them will want to get rid of us.  That's okay.  Some of them will want to destroy us.  That's okay.  As long as we don't return in kind.  Some of  them hate us.  That's okay as long as we don't hate them.  I think it's okay to let them destroy, as long as we don't destroy.  Let them be violent to us, as long as we don't return the violence.

IMO it might be best for us to reflect God, and it matters not who hates us, or calls us names, or destroys what we do.  It doesn't matter what they think or do.

Vine's  :2c:

[jabcat]

Thanks Vine and sheila. It's not always simple, is it?

sheila, I usually check out the person/their history before I post something someone wrote.  I would have a real problem with what you just said about him.  But aren't we then judging him?  LOL    He may be obnoxious, I don't know...but are the scriptures he quoted false?  Also, I believe he makes good points - even if he were to be a cracked vessel.   :footmouth:

Thanks for kicking this around in depth with me sheila.  I think it's important things, and maybe we can do it as friends/brother/sister and it will be fruitful.  I find it interesting what you say about taking Jesus over Paul.  Do you believe some of Paul's writings suspect then?  I'm of the belief that even though much of it I don't understand or am able to apply to my own life, the same Holy Spirit was speaking through Paul that spoke through Jesus - thus, there's a consistency, a reconciliation of the scriptures, not one author/Author over another - and we just don't always rightly divide it.   :2c:  For instance, just for consideration;  Jesus' ministry may have presented some different goals, circumstances, timing than Paul's?  Him eating with sinners, and Paul saying to judge correctly in that matter and not do so, IMO can't contradict - it's just that there's something there we're not "getting" a perfect handle on., etc.  Maybe mixing some things together when they need instead to be rightly divided?

As far as Law and grace.  I personally believe the scriptures about those things are about salvation, the spiritual new birth which is by grace, not by the works of the Law.  Assuming that's the case, I'm not sure what that has to do with all the other admonitions about - let me use an old, probably detestable term to some - Godly, righteous living (walking according to the Spirit, not after the flesh).  Just because we're saved and kept by grace, does that nullify all the other instructions, admonitions, even warnings in the scriptures?  I don't think so, what are your thoughts?  Thanks, blessings.

[VineBranch]

Just because we're saved and kept by grace, does that nullify all the other instructions, admonitions, even warnings in the scriptures?  I don't think so, what are your thoughts?  Thanks, blessings.

In one sense, yes.  I think we live by grace through faith, and one of the gifts that presents is a lack of guilt.  Although, the modern church tries to give that back, it does so for its own agendae.  When we are saved, and we know it, something happens.  I love knowing I am changed from glory to glory; anyone reading my first few posts will see the changes this place has brought about in me.

Those laws and admonishments are still there, but it is our desire to please God which means they aren't done, not our trying to not do them.  I find the closer I get to God, the less things stay the same.  I also find that some things haven't been done for a long time.  I'ld rather be hanging out with God, so those other former things don't get done.  Because I would rather be holding onto my Father's hand, I don't do some things which would involve me having to let go.  I still do, but, it seems not as much.  I think the best expression is 'fall away'.  I wind up not doing a lot of those things, because as I walk with God, those things fall away.  I don't remove them.  Again, God does it ... not doing those things is a gift as well.  God is perfecting me ... All On His Own.

[Watch/Pray]

Just because we're saved and kept by grace, does that nullify all the other instructions, admonitions, even warnings in the scriptures?  I don't think so, what are your thoughts?  Thanks, blessings.

In one sense, yes.  I think we live by grace through faith, and one of the gifts that presents is a lack of guilt.  Although, the modern church tries to give that back, it does so for its own agendae.  When we are saved, and we know it, something happens.  I love knowing I am changed from glory to glory; anyone reading my first few posts will see the changes this place has brought about in me.

Those laws and admonishments are still there, but it is our desire to please God which means they aren't done, not our trying to not do them.  I find the closer I get to God, the less things stay the same.  I also find that some things haven't been done for a long time.  I'ld rather be hanging out with God, so those other former things don't get done.  Because I would rather be holding onto my Father's hand, I don't do some things which would involve me having to let go.  I still do, but, it seems not as much.  I think the best expression is 'fall away'.  I wind up not doing a lot of those things, because as I walk with God, those things fall away.  I don't remove them.  Again, God does it ... not doing those things is a gift as well.  God is perfecting me ... All On His Own.

Oh my, I was replying to your earlier post... to thank you for such a loving, simple exhortation... but then you post this one and you said in eight words what it would have taken me several paragraphs

God is perfecting me ... All on His own.    He does use the written word to "discipline"  me... (Abide in Word, then you are my disciples, you shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free John 8:31-32)

[sheila]

Hi Jab, not that I 'suspect' it..just that I discern I am to follow Jesus..not Paul. It has been my habit

when things seem to not reconcile..to go with Jesus words.

   Jab,you know I don't condone homosexuality,don't you? I'm with you..love is the way.

   I have prayer requests in action on this matter for all of us.

    I leave the matter in His capable hands.  If judgement come...restoration will follow..

   p.s.  I think it's very important,too Jab..


  :dontknow: :laugh:

[jabcat]

You bring up some interesting points VB, much - maybe all - that I agree with.

You know what's coming next - however lol - several things come to mind.

One is, yes, we're personally only changed by God, from the inside out.  I can't change you, you can't change me.  No matter how much I scream eating too much pizza is wrong, people are still going to eat too much pizza.  In my weak moments, me too.   

Yet - looking at how the early church functioned - not just the modern church for its own agendae (not letting them/us off the hook, just sayin'), there are still many scriptural guidelines.  Paul gave them warnings even.  What do you think those were for, if not to instruct us and to act as some clear guidelines for human behavior?  (maybe multiple reasons).

I think it's a dilemma - one I obviously don't fully understand.  I like extremes typically only to make a point, and for it to identified as an extreme.  So for the sake of seeking understanding/clarification, and hopefully finding what's "sound doctrine" in the middle;  It seems the extremes of this are, 1. "accept everything and everyone.  Doesn't matter if you're a murderer, a Muslim, a satanist.  God's got all this worked out, relax, enjoy what He did on the cross - or not, because again, it doesn't matter.  Believe nothing, God doesn't care.  I love you, we're buddies (pat on head)".   2.  Be totally sin conscious, drive yourself and everyone around you crazy trying to be perfect, acceptable to God, and justify yourself on your own by doing works.

Seems to me, in the middle somewhere is this;  look to Jesus, trust God, know He's the Savior, not ourselves.  Be aware of what's going on around us, be willing to say "that's not what I understand the scriptures to say.  Here's what I understand".  And doing all of it in love, with a view to reconciliation.  It's the nuts and bolts of that that IMO, can be elusive.   :2c:

[jabcat]

I saw that sheila before you got it out.  WHAAAATT????    :LH: 

[CHB]

Just today I went and talked to a family member about something that they were having difficulty with. I saw it as a kind of rescue. My perspective is, if you see someone drowning, do everything you can to throw them a life line. If that means trying to point them in the right direction that will help them then to me that is showing/giving that person love. If I just stood by and watched that person drown without lifting a finger I wouldn't be able to live with myself and no one else would either. In what way would I be showing the most love, saving someone from drowning, harm, physically or spiritually or just stand by and wave or do nothing as they sank lower and lower?

I think the love of many has waxed cold.

CHB

[Molly]

Sheila, are you saying I'm in the wrong basket of figs?  I'll try not to take that personally. :laugh:

The difference between us and Jesus is that he could read minds. He knew who he was talking to and he knew the right way to talk to them and heal them.  We don't.  What I'm thinking about the end time church is not that they will be singling anyone out personally, but that they will be preaching God's word unabashedly to the world in general.  This doesn't mean their own words, this means God's word, right out of the Bible.   This, as you might have noticed, is being more and more frowned upon, even within the church, as 'legalism.'

Time will be short, and it will be kind of a last chance, last call to God before the end of the age.

[jabcat]

Here's a simple question that cuts to the heart of the issue (for me).

Let's say I started a thread on here that said "I've had an enlightened understanding.  God is OK if we murder other people.  So everyone go right ahead, it's all taken care of.  If somebody's been bothering you lately, kill 'em".

I know that lends itself to a lot of jokes :).  But seriously, how would you react?

[onlytruth]

I believe ,what we understand in our minds is being transferred to our hearts.We changed from a Jewish religious system when Jesus showed up.Noone understood him and they wanted the revelation but it wasn't given to all( only those in their time)
I believe we are asking the same questions now and we will have the revelation given to us as we enter this new age
New wine skins ....and we are slowly getting glimpses
So let's continue to encourage each other
Blessings

[lomarah]

Sheila I loved your post, beautiful.  :HeartThrob:

Molly I too believe that the time is coming when His people will boldly be declaring His Word. The difference is I see them declaring the God breathed Word. The Word specifically spoken to them to give to people. This is where the significant difference is. People have been quoting the bible for centuries. Millions have been tortured, murdered, shunned, persecuted, all under the name of "God" and "Jesus". They are not in the truth. The Pharisees quoted the scriptures day after day. They knew them by heart. Still they were not in the truth. To quote a scripture at someone, to tell someone they are wrong... is very often not in the truth. This is not being led by the Spirit. (Unless the Lord has specifically called you to do so.) In my opinion a good thing for all of us to do is to put away our soap boxes and get into our quiet places and wait on the Lord until we are changed, until we can hear Him speaking to us. THEN we will be equipped to help those in need. When the Lord has been able to remove our planks, THEN we will be able to be used by Him to help remove their specks.

Then we will be led by peace. Then we will be led by love. Then they will see the love of our Father and be changed even as we were.

And then we will have the God given ability, like Jesus, to know what a person is suffering from, as the Lord reveals it to us in order that He may use us, His body, to help free them from it.

THEN AND ONLY THEN WILL THE WORLD SEE REAL CHANGE!!

[sheila]

 the law is becoming obsolete...being replaced with the spirit of love. there is no law against love.

    love never fails...the law does not make perfect.

      we all need to know and beleive foremost that God loves us..and as we see that love expressed to us

  we can learn to love[we love because God loved us first] to be pateint,kind,not keep record of the offense

etc..love grows..love heals..love restores..love is as strong as death.


     sorry Molly :laugh:you know I love you,I  hope

      the saints were overcome,prophesied in Daniel...the exposing of Catholic preist homosexuality

  and pediphilia..to corrupt money matters..to preachers and prostitutes that has been on open display

  is revealed..  After the dashing of the power of the saints..the Court will sit[remeber Jesus said,destroy

this temple and I will raise it on the third day/His body] then the Kingdom will be given unto the saints.

  why would God allow this[the gates of hell will not prevail against it]...for the same reason Israel

rejecting Jesus opened up the way for the  gentiles to enter[beleivers]  no flesh shall boast and the

kingdom shall be like  leaven  in flour....if beleivers[saints] overcome..then grace extends even more

to include unbeleivers in this life.saved of grace..the free gift of eternal life.   The spirit without measure.

  evidence the saints were overcome=a house divided against itself can not stand[all the sects,denominations]

   Is it lawful to kill on the Sabbath,or to heal.?

   the Salvation of All men is the Glory of God....Jesus is coming to work a great deliverance of mankind

  every knee shall bow..and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord


   

[reFORMer]

We don't have to re-invent the wheel.  God has spoken.  His word is the law-word.  We cannot disentangle His judgements from interpermeating all things.  We are either aligned with God's law-word and are blessed or we suffer the consequences of going astray, of going our own way.  The less people know about what God's will is as revealed in His word, the more they tend to go astray, producing destruction and misery in the wake of their lives.  God answered so very many of my questions by sitting me down and having me open His Scripture.  This is in the context that Jesus, dwelling within us by the Holy Spirit, is that law-word manifesting alive.  Jesus' flesh was raised out of death and He ascended to the throne that is over all, The Mercy Throne, from whence He sends Himself as Spirit into us to quicken to life according to His written word, even as we have seen.

[jabcat]

 :thumbsup:  ref.

Any response to my question about my new enlightenment about murder Lomarah?  Or maybe you prefer to ignore my "soapbox"?   :laugh:.

How would you personally know whether or not my murder enlightenment was of God?

(P.S.  People quoting scripture to hurt people and gain power, you're right, that's not of God.  But there's nothing wrong with the scriptures, right?)