Salvation curveball

[Dave Corum]

Yes, Jesus will save all men (women).
But what about hybrids and transhumans?
Have you seen the cover of Time where some "thing" is connected via a computer cable?
http://www.singularityweblog.com/the-technological-singularity-goes-mainstream-again/
QUESTION: Does Jesus save even these?
Sorry, if this has been covered before, please provide a link.
The blizzard is over and I have got to get back to work.

[ded2daworld]

IMO,There are no hybrids. Each produces according to it's kind as stated in genesis. Dogs only beget other dogs, cats only beget other cats. they can't breed together to form anything. Humans only beget other humans.
I don't know what you mean by transhumans, one is either a descendant of Adam with sinful blood or one isn't.

[Dave Corum]

With all due respect de2daworld, there most certainly are hybrids, as any gardener will tell you. Hybrid seeds cannot be saved for next years planting because they cannot reproduce aka: "terminator gene". "The Frankenfoods" engineers at Monsanto have come a long way in GMO. Hybrid seeds do NOT conform to God's law.
That is just one of many examples in plants.
Surely you don't think that mad scientists haven't been messing around with man's DNA?
DARPA would love super soldiers - robiotics mingled with cell technologies is old news and not the subject of conspiracy theories any more.
Again, and with all due respect, I strongly urge you to do some simple research into the matter at issue. A good saying:
"Those unaware, are unaware they are unaware". DECEPTION is the devil's game.
Matt.10:26
It HAS been revealed, please look. :Pray:

[ded2daworld]

Sorry I didn't know you were talking about fruits and vegetables getting saved.
IMO,Of course there are hybrids like horse, jack ass, to mule they are still of the equine kind. there are no hybrids that are out of their kind - felines beget felines, canines beget canines, and humans beget humans. :2c:
Just because someone doesn't agree with you, it doesn't mean they haven't looked at the facts, it means they disagree with you. :Peace2:

[Lazarus Short]

Dave, it may be worse than you say.  All the bizarre probing and manipulation by "aliens" [read, demons] is, in my opinion, an attempt to insinuate themselves into the human genome - a desperate attempt to ride along on mankind's assured salvation.  They will fail. as God is not deceived.

[Dave Corum]

Dave, it may be worse than you say.  All the bizarre probing and manipulation by "aliens" [read, demons] is, in my opinion, an attempt to insinuate themselves into the human genome - a desperate attempt to ride along on mankind's assured salvation.  They will fail. as God is not deceived.

Agreed Lazarus Short, on both points! Spot on IMO. :winkgrin:

[Dave Corum]

Lazarus Short, I forgot to ask you: Do you believe "they" have had some success already in their dastardly undertakings, AND IF you do, did Jesus die for them? That is the "curve ball" I am referring to. I believe the English might call this a "sticky wicket" :gimmefive:

[misszoolander]

Revelation 21:5 He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true. - "Everything" includes Hybrids?

Colossians 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.

Colossians 1:20
And through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.

Job 28:24
For he looks to the ends of the earth
and sees everything under the heavens.

Hebrews 4:13
And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

Whatever happens in this earth, God knew it before it happened, yes our Lord has a plan  :Peace2:

[Dave Corum]

Revelation 21:5 He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true. - "Everything" includes Hybrids?

Colossians 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.

Colossians 1:20
And through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.

Job 28:24
For he looks to the ends of the earth
and sees everything under the heavens.

Hebrews 4:13
And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

Whatever happens in this earth, God knew it before it happened, yes our Lord has a plan  :Peace2:

WELL SAID, yes, I now believe it includes hybrids/transhumans. :dsunny:

[misszoolander]

 :friendstu:  :dsunny:

[shawn]

At the risk of sounding intolerant but this all sounds very out there for me.  Demons imbedding themselves in the human genome?  Really?  I really struggle with conspiracy theory.

[Lazarus Short]

Dave and Shawn, there is limited information to go on, I haven't read much UFO stuff in many years, and even got rid of the UFO books I did have.  However, I recently read a Christian-oriented book about the phenom, looking at it from a spiritual standpoint.  I thought hard about what the probes, procedures, and experiments had to mean, and breeding demon-dwelt hybrids was my conclusion.  As to the reason, I decided they intended to wipe out humanity and stand in its place, demanding pardon as the last remaining "humans."  Just more of my dot-connecting, and you are free to come to another conclusion. 

[VineBranch]

LOL,  You've got to be kidding right?  Hands up anyone here who thinks God can be fooled ... come on, don't be shy.  When God went for a soda, someone slipped something He didn't expect into the mix, and now He's no wiser.  Okay, come on now, anyone?  Imagine the look on God's face when He finds out.  Won't He feel silly.

IMO what you are saying Dave, is God didn't see this coming!  What a moron He is.  Sticky Wicket indeed.  IMO You are saying that you think the creator of DNA can't spot it at a glance.  It says, when I am lifted up I shall draw all ... the 'men' was added to the English, it's even marked as added in the text itself.  Hey, remember:  "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (Joh 3:16)  I don't see an exception based on our ignorance of what will be called whoseover in the future.  Just my  :2c:.

[ded2daworld]

Well I just feel stupid for not believing in Aliens or hybrid humans or transhumans or the sun orbiting the earth. Humans and animals will continue to produce each after their kind as Genesis says. No amount of Natural selection or intentional breeding selection has proven to go beyond certain limits of the kind, equine, canine, feline, anthropoid, pachyderm, human, etc.
A ton of variety within the kind. A horse mating (Equine) mating with a cow(bovine) will not produce an animal at all, much less an animal that is a new kind, half and half of each. So something is a human with Adam's sinful blood flowing through their veins or they aren't. Just  :2c: from a stupid former biology teacher. :Peace2:

[Dave Corum]

Dave and Shawn, there is limited information to go on, I haven't read much UFO stuff in many years, and even got rid of the UFO books I did have.  However, I recently read a Christian-oriented book about the phenom, looking at it from a spiritual standpoint.  I thought hard about what the probes, procedures, and experiments had to mean, and breeding demon-dwelt hybrids was my conclusion.  As to the reason, I decided they intended to wipe out humanity and stand in its place, demanding pardon as the last remaining "humans."  Just more of my dot-connecting, and you are free to come to another conclusion.

I agree with your beliefs on this, and God did promise to send STRONG delusion to His creation for most have kicked Him out of the classroom - replaced with insane evilution, IMO definately out of government and governance, and frankly IMO, out of most people's daily life. Can't put my finger on the guys name but some secular, agnostic shrink did a study on abductees to DISPROVE their experiences as reality and assign some shrink term to describe the phenomenon that was going global - Even he eventually became convinced the experiences were real, valid, and he went so far as to conclude these ufo guy's weren't "ET's" in the hollywood sense, but demons in the biblical sense.

Furthermore, IMO, Satan is a perfectly created evil, and programmed (DNA) to hate God's creation, especially man, who was created just a little lower than the angels. :thumbsup:

[Dave Corum]

LOL,  You've got to be kidding right?  Hands up anyone here who thinks God can be fooled ... come on, don't be shy.  When God went for a soda, someone slipped something He didn't expect into the mix, and now He's no wiser.  Okay, come on now, anyone?  Imagine the look on God's face when He finds out.  Won't He feel silly.

IMO what you are saying Dave, is God didn't see this coming!  What a moron He is.  Sticky Wicket indeed.  IMO You are saying that you think the creator of DNA can't spot it at a glance.  It says, when I am lifted up I shall draw all ... the 'men' was added to the English, it's even marked as added in the text itself.  Hey, remember:  "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (Joh 3:16)  I don't see an exception based on our ignorance of what will be called whoseover in the future.  Just my  :2c:.

VineBranch, I'm serious as a heart attack, AND I'll assume all blame that it appears I didn't make my opinions clear on this matter, so I'll try to clarify.
1) IMO, God cannot be fooled; This is part of His plan:
2) IMO, and again, God did "see this coming" as it is part of His plan;
3) The "sticky wicket" reference applies to mortal man (me) pondering the question I asked, to wit: "IMO believe Jesus came to save all MEN, but what about hybrids/transhumans..." Sorry for the confusion.BTW, misszoolander did a nice job clarifying this whole thing IMO.

[Dave Corum]

Well I just feel stupid for not believing in Aliens or hybrid humans or transhumans or the sun orbiting the earth. Humans and animals will continue to produce each after their kind as Genesis says. No amount of Natural selection or intentional breeding selection has proven to go beyond certain limits of the kind, equine, canine, feline, anthropoid, pachyderm, human, etc.
A ton of variety within the kind. A horse mating (Equine) mating with a cow(bovine) will not produce an animal at all, much less an animal that is a new kind, half and half of each. So something is a human with Adam's sinful blood flowing through their veins or they aren't. Just  :2c: from a stupid former biology teacher. :Peace2:

My apologies to you too ded2daworld, in that I see I fell short on clarity in my additional posts to you. IMO, you are too hard on yourself by feeling "stupid", might I suggest "ignorant", which IMO is not a bad word, and is easily "cureable" with information you have not seen, again, my opinion.
1) I'm in total agreement, that "Humans and animals will continue to produce each after their kind..." Totally. BUT, with one caveat: IMO, you are not factoring into the equation that man has made great advances in biogenetics et al, and he can now artifically create and defy God's laws on kinds begat kinds - not only can, but exhaustive evidence exisists to prove science most definately has/is - leaps and bounds, amazing advances with incredible moral dilemmas IMO.
2) You appear to agree on hybrid plants, (Question): Do you agree that GMO technologies exist for plants?
3) (Question) Do you believe GMO type techs can be applied to man and animals?
4) IMO, without too much searching, I'm confident you will discover that already a number of animal genes have been "spliced" into a number of plant genes such hopelessly modifying original DNA of both.
5) IMO, without too much searching, "scientists" of the Dr Franknstein order, are working on adding a THIRD strand to man's DNA - And IMO, I believe they are already successful. Yep, IMO, they walk amongst us now. Demon given technologies IMO.
Finally, re: "fixed earth" beliefs, all I can say IMO, IF you can't believe God who clearly says the earth doesn't, won't and cannot move, and you can't believe God on "fixed foundations", and you will deny what your own eyes show you every morning and every day, I therefore am speechless on the subject. IMO, you are most certainly entitled to your opinion, and I do respect that. Question: Can we agree to disagree and remain friends and brothers? :dsunny:

[Dave Corum]

ded2daworld: question please:
1) I just caught this quote from your last post - "from a stupid former biology teacher". Would you be willing to tell me the reason for that? In other words, what spirit motivated you to write that and what am I to take from that?
2) RE: Isaiah 66:1 - I happen to have a "footstool" by my easy chair, and I assure you it is not revolving around my chair, for the day it does, I'm taking it back - or maybe I'll put it on display.
Come on, I meant that as a little humor to lighten this up  :LH:

[ded2daworld]

1.) Dave, you know from your experience with evolution that scientist plain lie. It's how they get funding for their research to come to conclusions the funder wants them to. They would like people to think they are wizards, but only God can circumvent the laws he has set in place. They can splice genes together all they want but the resultant creature, just like the mule, is sterile.
2.)Of course Monsanto has been selling their GMO seeds for years - again it is for profit. Farmers that won't buy their seeds are systematically being put out of business. -and new seed much be bought each year.
3.) I know they do GMO on animals. It's still against the law to try it on humans
4.) The key phrase is "hopelessly modifying the original DNA of both." True because without reproduction capacity it's just a curious anomoly.
5.) Scientist can and will "work on" whatever as long as the funding is there. Find something new and unusual and they can assure funding for life like Donald Carl Johanson and Dr. Mary Leaky did with his rediculous but believed claims of his find nicknamed "Lucy". If the sun orbits the earth in a day how come for six months the sun never "sets" in Northern Alaska? That isn't a completed orbit if the sun is constantly visible is it?
If disagreement prevented people from being friends and brothers, there wouldn't be any friends or brothers because no two people on earth agree on every single thing. :Peace2:

[VineBranch]

3) The "sticky wicket" reference applies to mortal man (me) pondering the question I asked, to wit: "IMO believe Jesus came to save all MEN, but what about hybrids/transhumans..." Sorry for the confusion.

There was no confusion Dave.  In you OP you were very clear.  Your post included these words:  "QUESTION: Does Jesus save even these?":  you were referring to transhumans and hybrids.  My response was to show that to ask that question would by its nature imply ignorance on God's part.     Notice the wording:  "IMO what you are saying Dave, is God didn't see this coming!"  In order to ask the question does Jesus say even these,  you are asking if all means all.  I tried to explain that the 'men' was added to facilitate flow in the English text .  Your response seems to imply you are still thinking it is part of the original.  It isn't.

You told MissZ:  "WELL SAID, yes, I now believe it includes hybrids/transhumans."  Great, your question has been answered right?  Let's move on.  Then you told me in your anti-penultimate post:  "VineBranch, I'm serious as a heart attack, AND I'll assume all blame that it appears I didn't make my opinions clear on this matter, so I'll try to clarify."  Which seems to say you don't believe it.  As the kids say whatup?

[ded2daworld]

Dave, the footstool "joke" made no sense. Of course the footstool does not revolve around your easy chair. NEITHER does your easy chair revolve around the footstool.
The reason for the comment that  "from a stupid former biology teacher" IMO you strongly imply that if we don't see things your way we are "willfully ignorant" because we don't get all our facts from the internet - the last bastion of truth.

[VineBranch]

Finally, re: "fixed earth" beliefs, all I can say IMO, IF you can't believe God who clearly says the earth doesn't, won't and cannot move, and you can't believe God on "fixed foundations", and you will deny what your own eyes show you every morning and every day, I therefore am speechless on the subject.

This is a joke right?  Moon phases, retrograde, seasons, they mean ...?  There's a new book out by a daring young cutting edge scientist who shows there may be some truth in the notion that the sun may be the center of the solar system.  You might want to check him out.  His name is Galileo Galilei, I highly recommend him.

[Dave Corum]

Dave, the footstool "joke" made no sense. Of course the footstool does not revolve around your easy chair. NEITHER does your easy chair revolve around the footstool.
The reason for the comment that  "from a stupid former biology teacher" IMO you strongly imply that if we don't see things your way we are "willfully ignorant" because we don't get all our facts from the internet - the last bastion of truth.

WOW, seriously, you have the ability to infer from what I write and call it a fact? IF you are "willfully ignorant", that is your choice, and I do respect it - some claim ignorance is bliss.
From your post prior to this one, I see alot of opinions passing for facts - I'm sorry, I disagree. Murder sir, is "against the law" and IMO I believe it happens everyday. If you have a better source to find out what DARPA et al are funding and up to, please share it. http://www.darpa.mil/
BTW: Tentmakers.org is on the internet, and frankly IMO, it, like a number of websites contains a great deal of truth.
Finally, infer what you like from this question, but I'll tell you my intentions are most honorable:
Question: As a qualified to teach biology instructor, did you come by your knowledge by independent research, or did you obtain a degree from a college/university, and if the answer is yes, which IMO I strongly suspect it is, nothing need more be said, for I too have been to college - 5 of them and in each it was the same: Teacher say, student repeat. Student repeat accurately, G.P.A. goes up. :winkgrin:

[Dave Corum]

Finally, re: "fixed earth" beliefs, all I can say IMO, IF you can't believe God who clearly says the earth doesn't, won't and cannot move, and you can't believe God on "fixed foundations", and you will deny what your own eyes show you every morning and every day, I therefore am speechless on the subject.

This is a joke right?  Moon phases, retrograde, seasons, they mean ...?  There's a new book out by a daring young cutting edge scientist who shows there may be some truth in the notion that the sun may be the center of the solar system.  You might want to check him out.  His name is Galileo Galilei, I highly recommend him.

VineBranch, much of this has been posted in: http://tentmaker.org/forum/christian-life/joshua's-'long-day'/
Frankly, I'm not surprised by what you have written that you would recommend - IMO - the huckster Galileo. What does surprise me is you failed to mention - IMO - the other 2 of the unholy trinity - Sir Newton and Einstein.
As you say, what's up with that? :sigh:

[ded2daworld]

So Galileo, Sir Isaac Newton and Einstein are the unholy trinity?? OK....
...and your serious?? :Chinscratch: :Peace2: