Unusual theory on universal salvation

[Nil Recurring]

The kings are equal to their people.  Jobs are not classifications of where one will live, or how one will live - they are what one will do.

The sinner who does not repent in this life, but goes through purification is still repentant saved.  There is no reason he should live in a "lesser paradise" because of the depravity on Earth to which he was subject, and engaged in.  Neither should it be the case that a Christian who above all else should humble himself, should become a perpetual step higher than the sinner.  It is not fair if I forever have a better estate in paradise while a man who came late should forever have a lesser one.

If that's the case, I have yet another issue in Heaven that needs dealt with.  And to be honest, I'm growing a bit weary of Heaven looking less, and less pretty than it should, amongst other things...

If I may be bold; Indeed it had better even out, or there is a little less reason to look forward to it.

From reading the Bible, studying mysticism, and some other things, and adding it all together, I've begun to wonder if perhaps God really is prepping humanity for an inexpressibly glorious future, one we can't even comprehend with our limited earthly minds. Any one else kinda feel this way?

Of course, we can't even begin to conjecture what we don't even remotely know.

Agreed. Jesus kingdom is described partly in Revelation, but God becoming All in all? How could we possibly comprehend something so glorious?

[shawn]

I believe we will be made perfect and complete by the power of the Holy Spirit but I'm not sure that is obtainable in this life.  What I know is I walk with Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit leads me through the process of sanctification.  I do not believe perfection is obtainable in this life but with God all things are possible...even something this unfathomable to me.  When we die, through faith in Christ I believe we will be made perfect.  How this process takes place I do not know.  Is it instantanous when we enter God's presence?  Or is it through Gehenna.  I am likely to believe the first but I realize my understanding is extremely limited.  All I can do is cooperate with the Holy Spirit through the power of Christ by loving God and my neighbor.  Any doctrine that doesn't support that walk I pray will be removed from my mind.

[Johann]

Also, with this line of thinking it would actually hurt you to be a Christian and not quite make it.  Because, you would be in the group that would be beaten with many lashes in hell.  You knew what you should do...but under your own will you were not able to quite get it right...so off to hell with you so you can be purified some more.  And oh btw you get more lashes because you knew better.  If you do choose Christ...you had better get it right.  Because, under this assumption it would be better to live in sin and ignorance.  This thought process makes no distinction between Christian and nonChristian unless you die perfect.

No, no, no, it isn't like that. Only if the Holy Spirit has indwelled you, and you refuse His help in eradicating sin, or perhaps refuse some specific command, and you don't repent of it, forcing the Holy Spirit to retreat, would you get the many lashes in Hell.

If you still think you have to become perfect by your own will, or that becoming the image of Jesus is works salvation, the Holy Spirit hasn't indwelled you yet. Till then, obey the Golden Rule and try to find Christ within you by meditation and prayer. Christ will give you the Holy Spirit.

I do not believe anyone obtains perfection in this life...not a single person.  I think that relationship brings a more Christ like image and it's called the sanctification process.  Do I believe that leads to perfection in this life?  No.  And saying someone you haven't met who disagrees with you doesn't have the Holy Spirit is quite judgmental. 

If this doctrine that you believe states that we must be perfect...perfectly the image of Christ to avoid the many lashes in hell then I would have a very hard time accepting that.  That doctrine would be a heavy yoke...not a light one.  It would bring anxiety and depression rather than peace and joy.

Do you have to be able to perform miracles and walk on water like Christ to avoid hell?

When I said you don't have the Holy Spirit yet, I honestly did not mean it in a judgmental way. When I typed it out, I thought it sounded different from what I meant it, but didn't really know how to word it differently.

You see, I know exactly how you feel, where you're coming from, and what a terrible residue legalism combined with the doctrine of eternal torment can leave.

What I write does sound all legalistic and judgmental to you, but it is not. I just wish you could catch this vision of the Love our Father has for us that I've caught over the past year. Through that lens, everything I write would have a slightly different cast to it.


I think few people will have to suffer the many lashes in Hell. Only those who had the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, and then proceeded to disobey Him would suffer the many lashes.

If you are aware of your sinful state, and you want to change, you'll be one of the first out of Hell, because you'll be a willing participant to the Holy Spirit's work in you.

Hell isn't real flames, they're spiritual flames perfectly tailored for each persons spiritual condition. Don't fear them, embrace the thought of becoming perfect.   

God loves you more than you can comprehend, remember that! 

I must've totally misunderstood what Hall was saying because I thought he taught that all people have the Holy Spirit or "Light" (Jesus) within them that enlightens them to their sin, and the parable of the talents refers to whether people respond to the light and grow their portion of the Spirit or whether they ignore it or "bury" it.  :dontknow:

No, you were right, Hall does teach this. I had been operating under a misconception at the time of this thread in 2010. Since then, I've read more of his site and Quaker theology has become much clearer to me.

Wow, I have to say, my discovery and exploration of Quakerism, mysticism, and near-death experiences over the last two years has demolished many of my previous theological and spiritual misconceptions. The learning curve has been steep but fruitful.   

[lomarah]

That's great Johann. :)
Hall is also very willing to correspond by email, I've spoken with him numerous times. He's a very kind man.

[Johann]

That's great Johann. :)
Hall is also very willing to correspond by email, I've spoken with him numerous times. He's a very kind man.

Yes, I correspond with him too. He is very kind!

His kindness played a part in helping convince me he is authentic. Well, I'm not 100% convinced yet, but I'm getting there. There were some things he taught I've had trouble accepting, but almost every time my opinion gradually shifted toward understanding and acceptance as I deliberated, read other writings, and gained clarity from the Teacher within.

There are 2 or 3 stumbling blocks yet though. One is a biggie, other two more minor. Jesus, the burning coal of Truth within us all, will help me out sooner or later, I'm sure, as to the validity of the teachings I have trouble accepting. 

[lomarah]

Yes for sure He will! If you want to discuss them here feel free, many of us have our own struggles and/or have struggled with doctrines and such, maybe some of the same things you are struggling with now.

God bless.