The chicken or the egg?

[micah7:9]

Don't know about that, I just know that a soul dies when the breath in the body of the soul quits breathing the soul is dead.

Micah, not taking sides because I'm still not sure myself.
God created Adam from dust. Adam was nothing more that a dead lump of clay.
They God blew life into Adam. Adam became a living soul.
Note: Became is added by the translators. Hebrew: man living soul.
So it's clear that the breath gives life to the otherwise dead body.
The soul was already alive before it entered the body.
The dead body is dead. The Bible is clear about that. It speaks about decay and totally returing to dust.
So it's very clear the lump of clay needs the breath (of God) to be alive.
But does the breath need the body to stay alive?
And how do we die?

(Psalms 104:29 [ACV])
Thou hide thy face, they are troubled. Thou take away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.

Perhaps to literal but if God takes the breath, it's in His hands. Aka it returned to God?


(Isaiah 55:11 [ACV])
so shall my word be that goes forth out of my mouth. It shall not return to me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please. And it shall prosper in the thing to which I sent it.

I can find no matching words but in a way words are also breath. Likely taking things a bit to far
Back to Genesis.
(Genesis 2:7 [CLV])
And forming is Yahweh Elohim the human of soil from the ground, and He is blowing into his nostrils the breath of the living, and becoming is the human a living soul.

I think we have a little formula here....

Dead dust + breath = living soul
Living soul - breath (taken away by God) = Dead dust
Living soul - dead dust = breath

So: Dead dust = dead soul  ==> Soul is just another word for dust.....?

:dontknow:

What if I compare it with a car and driver?

Car = body
gasoline = breath
Driver = spirit

The car drives until it runs out of gas (no more breath).
The car rusts until nothing is left. The drive take the stairway to heaven.


Ecc 12:7  And the dust return to the earth, as it was,—and, the spirit, return unto God, who gave it.
Where in the creation account does it state that God gives a spirit?

Had to leave WW I did not ignore your post. As always you bring up great thoughts. I owl be baach!  :bigGrin:

[Nathan]

This discussion about soul versus spirit has been around on the forum in times past.  And I can't remember who it was that posted their view but it sparked a personal experience in my spirit that revealed "to me" what the defining characters are between flesh, soul and spirit.  Obviously there are many different points of view here and I've yet to see any "one" conversation where someone made a statement that caused everyone else to lay down their differences and embrace the direction of what was said . . .so this probably isn't going to be any different.  But for those out there who have not read this or have seen it before, I'll put it out here again.

I will agree that God did not give us a soul.  And I will also agree that my body, soul and spirit is the manifestation of the "whole" me.  I believe God is the same way in that the wholeness of God is the conglomoration of Father, Son and Spirit.  However, I also believe there are definitative separations of each of those elements and natures.  I believe the simplicity of the common chicken egg is a perfect example of all of these things.  There's the yoke, the white and the shell.  You can't remove one from the other without affecting the continuity of the whole.  I see our wholeness in the same way.  You can't separate my soul from my body without affecting the continuity of my wholeness of life.

So what happens when we die?  First, how did we get a soul in the first place?  I beleive it developed the instant God breathed SPIRIT into Adam's BODY.  Before that, it was just a carcass . . .made from dirt.  But when God breathed in it his life, breathed into it a spirit, it then "came" to life.  It BECAME a living soul.  It was one thing, but then after the breath of life it BECAME something else.  Man BECAME a living soul.  What happened?  The SPIRIT entered into the BODY . .two of the three main componants that make up our whole being . . .and when spirit entered into flesh, the soul . . .the EVIDENCE manifested. 

So, for me, my soul is the evidence that there is a spirit in my body. 

I don't see demons entering in when my soul is on the verge of leaving . . .that's a whole other doctrine in and of itself.  I beleive much of the demon doctrines is really more about the broken state of one's mind than anything.  There was a time when the church would rebuke a person who was mentally handicapped . . .now, we understand it isn't demonic at all, but it's merely a physical malfunctioning of the brain's activity within us.  I beleive that's just scratching the surface of what many attribute demons to . . .our minds are much more powerful than even we can possibly imagine.  I believe there are some who've triggered something in the depths of their consciousness that brings about many unusual manifestations that the consciousness of man can not understand but attempt to try to label "something" on it for their own personal comfort and control.  If I can give it an identity, I can control it's ability.  But as I said, that's a whole other matter.

It again begs the question as to where is there life in the message of what's being beleived?  I always cringe when someone almost demands Scripture and verse . . .it won't matter.  It's not the Scripture I have an issue with, it's the interpretations of others in the rendering of those Scriptures.  If God is light and he is in us and we're in him, how then can we carry so many beliefs and doctrines that inflict fear and darkness in others when it's just so unneccessary.  My enemy is not an invisible being that is out to kill me the first chance he gets.  Talk about spiritual schitzophrenea!   My worst enemy is the woman between my ears.

Ever wonder why God had to bring Eve out from Adam?  Why didn't he just create her from the dust as well?  For me, Eve is the outward manifestation of Adams soul.  He indeed represents spriit as she represents soul . . our spirit and soul are to be "married" as one.  And our soul is to submit to our spirit to allow the seed of life to be conceived within us so we may birth  offspring that are unified in his glory . . .spriitual offspring . . . in us there are nations . . .there are geneologies of who we are in Chrsit that has not even begun to birth in us yet.  But it's coming.

When I die . . .remember the example of when you take a transparent piece of colored glass and overlay it with a different colored piece of glass . . .the instant you do that, the two colors combined become three . . .for me, that third color is my soul.  It's the manifestation that the other two are combined.  Take one away from the other and the third disappears.  That again, I believe is what our soul does . . .my identity is not in my soul alone.  My identity, my LIFE is in my spirit.  My soul manifests when my spirit lives in this body.  The body doesn't live forever, it's only temporal.  My soul only manifests as long as my spirit is in this body.  I believe that's why it's so important to note that we'll all recieve "new" bodies . . .our spirit will return to transformed bodies that are also eternal . . .so that once again our soul can manifest the union between spirit and body . . .it's a mystery to be sure, but the patterns of this are through out all the old Testament. 

If you think about it . . .the day Eli died was the day Israel lost her heart.  Because that was the day they lost the ark and years later when they did get it back, there was no mention of the rod that budded or the jar of manna . . .all that was left in it was the law . . .who represented the law?  Moses because he was the tool God used to initiate it to his people.  And it's why there was a struggle between satan (adversary) and Michael (chief message bearer) over the body of Moses . . .satan=adversary=flesh . . .when we do fleshly things, there's a fleshly invigoration that takes place is there not?

Jeeze, I better quit . . .this is becoming another marathon.

[micah7:9]

Reply to WW earlier...

Quote from: micah7:9 on Today at 01:26:19 PM

    Don't know about that, I just know that a soul dies when the breath in the body of the soul quits breathing the soul is dead.

Micah, not taking sides because I'm still not sure myself.
God created Adam from dust. Adam was nothing more that a dead lump of clay.
I don't consider that the lump clay was "dead" as you post. It was just the dust of the ground.

They God blew life into Adam. Adam became a living soul.  Yes.
Note: Became is added by the translators. Hebrew: man living soul. I'm looking into that summation.

So it's clear that the breath gives life to the otherwise dead body.
Breath gives live to the formed dust of the ground.
The soul was already alive before it entered the body.
How do you figure that? There is no person or soul at this time.
The dead body is dead.
Death as in dead had not yet entered into the scenerio yet. Any thought of death did not enter the equation until Gen. 2:17 And I reason man/adam had no idea what the heck it was.
The Bible is clear about that. It speaks about decay and totally returing to dust.
But you have already moved away from what our subject is.

So it's very clear the lump of clay needs the breath (of God) to be alive. Yes.

But does the breath need the body to stay alive? No.
And how do we die?
Man quits beathing.

(Psalms 104:29 [ACV])
Thou hide thy face, they are troubled. Thou take away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.

Perhaps to literal but if God takes the breath, it's in His hands. Aka it returned to God? Yes, that is a truth.


(Isaiah 55:11 [ACV])
so shall my word be that goes forth out of my mouth. It shall not return to me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please. And it shall prosper in the thing to which I sent it.

I can find no matching words but in a way words are also breath. Likely taking things a bit to far.
Yes, too far. But since you are taking things a bit to far
Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God; that settles that. I hope.

Back to Genesis.
(Genesis 2:7 [CLV])
And forming is Yahweh Elohim the human of soil from the ground, and He is blowing into his nostrils the breath of the living, and becoming is the human a living soul.

I think we have a little formula here....

Dead dust + breath = living soul I see no death in the dust. Death was unheard of at this point, as far as the writer is concerned.

Living soul - breath (taken away by God) = Dead dust.  Living soul- breath= non existance

Living soul - dead dust = breath  I don't follow that one?

So: Dead dust = dead soul  ==> Soul is just another word for dust.....?
Negative, that is your assumption. Where did you get "dead dust?" No soul is not just a word for dust. Again, your assumption.

:dontknow:

What if I compare it with a car and driver?

Car = body
gasoline = breath
Driver = spirit

The car drives until it runs out of gas (no more breath).
The car rusts until nothing is left. The drive take the stairway to heaven.

The car is the body, good you got that part. the Gasoline and the driver are one and the same. The driver would not could not start to use the car without gasoline, the is the breath the breath is the spirit.



Ecc 12:7  And the dust return to the earth, as it was,—and, the spirit, return unto God, who gave it.
Where in the creation account does it state that God gives a spirit?

This is where I believe in my opinion the entire misunderstanding begins. The "breath of life" of Genesis is taught to be the "spirit" of God, when in a truth that spirt is the igniter to the dust of the ground formed by the Lord God become a living soul. I contend that that "breath of life," is not the VERY Spirit of which God is, but it is the "thing or the first miracle?" which causes our natural breathing ablility on this earth.

[Molly]

Paul makes it very clear that to die means to leave the body and be with Christ.   To be away from the body means to be 'at home' with the Lord.   End of story.


21 For me, life finds all of its meaning in Christ. Death also has its benefits.

22 Suppose I go on living in my body. Then I will be able to carry on my work. It will bear a lot of fruit. But what should I choose? I don't know.

23 I can't decide between the two. I long to leave this world and be with Christ. That is better by far.

24 But it is more important for you that I stay alive.

25 I'm sure of that. So I know I will remain with you. And I will continue with all of you to help you grow and be joyful in what you have been taught. 26 I'm sure I will be with you again. Then your joy in Christ Jesus will be greater than ever because of me.

--Phil 1



8 We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord" (2 Co 5)

[micah7:9]

That is YOUR end of YOUR story, And may I had that you are engaged with the winter STORY as well. Of course that is only my opinion, from what I have read in some posts.
Being solid in ones beliefs is a good thing, I admire it, but should there be flaws or errors in that belief, in my opinion, there is needs be room for at least reconsideration of what one does hold as a solid belief. :2c:

And has the scripture been found where man/adam was given a soul? I wait.

[Molly]

That is YOUR end of YOUR story, And may I had that you are engaged with the winter STORY as well. Of course that is only my opinion, from what I have read in some posts.

You don't believe the Bible?

Paul is writing after the cross.

And, after the resurrection of Christ.

[micah7:9]

That is YOUR end of YOUR story, And may I had that you are engaged with the winter STORY as well. Of course that is only my opinion, from what I have read in some posts.

You don't believe the Bible?

Paul is writing after the cross.

And, after the resurrection of Christ.

Yes! I fervently believe the Bible and I am finding that to be a burden of great joy that I do.

[Molly]

That is YOUR end of YOUR story, And may I had that you are engaged with the winter STORY as well. Of course that is only my opinion, from what I have read in some posts.

You don't believe the Bible?

Paul is writing after the cross.

And, after the resurrection of Christ.

Yes! I fervently believe the Bible and I am finding that to be a burden of great joy that I do.

well, then, believe THIS

6Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

7(For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

8We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

2 Cor 5

[micah7:9]

Is there a resurrection of the body?

[Molly]

Is there a resurrection of the body?

Yes, at the end of the age.  But, meanwhile, a lot of Christians have died in the last 2000 years.

They are with the Lord, in age abiding bodies prepared for them in heaven.

That's what the Bible says.

[micah7:9]

Is there a resurrection of the body?

Yes, at the end of the age.  But, meanwhile, a lot of Christians have died in the last 2000 years.

They are with the Lord, in age abiding bodies prepared for them in heaven.

That's what the Bible says.

Can you show me where there is a resurrection of the body?

I must admit I surely find the tributary topics quite a challenging exercise.

[micah7:9]

That is YOUR end of YOUR story, And may I had that you are engaged with the winter STORY as well. Of course that is only my opinion, from what I have read in some posts.

You don't believe the Bible?

Paul is writing after the cross.

And, after the resurrection of Christ.

Yes! I fervently believe the Bible and I am finding that to be a burden of great joy that I do.

well, then, believe THIS

6Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

7(For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

8We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

2 Cor 5

I believe that. :bigGrin:

[Molly]

Is there a resurrection of the body?

Yes, at the end of the age.  But, meanwhile, a lot of Christians have died in the last 2000 years.

They are with the Lord, in age abiding bodies prepared for them in heaven.

That's what the Bible says.

Can you show me where there is a resurrection of the body?

I must admit I surely find the tributary topics quite a challenging exercise.

The resurrection of the body will signify our full adoption as sons of God.

And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body.
Rom 8:23

[micah7:9]

Is there a resurrection of the body?

Yes, at the end of the age.  But, meanwhile, a lot of Christians have died in the last 2000 years.

They are with the Lord, in age abiding bodies prepared for them in heaven.

That's what the Bible says.

Can you show me where there is a resurrection of the body?

I must admit I surely find the tributary topics quite a challenging exercise.

The resurrection of the body will signify our full adoption as sons of God.

And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body.
Rom 8:23

Again, "Can you show me where there is a resurrection of the body?"

[WhiteWings]

If God is able to create a universe out of nothing and fill it with life, then it's not hard for me to imagine that He also has the power to restore it."  Whose quote is this?

Mine.
I messed up with the quotes. I've corrected it in post #147

[micah7:9]

If God is able to create a universe out of nothing and fill it with life, then it's not hard for me to imagine that He also has the power to restore it."  Whose quote is this?

Mine.
I messed up with the quotes. I've corrected it in post #147

Do you believe that God created a universe out of nothing and filled it with life?

By the way I responded to your post with the car-gasoline-driver. :bigGrin:

[WhiteWings]

Had to leave WW I did not ignore your post. As always you bring up great thoughts. I owl be baach!  :bigGrin:

Little correction to my own post.
(Genesis 2:7 [ACV])
And LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.

I wrote became is added by translators. That wasn't a totally wrong statement but now it seems it wasn't totally correct either.
Was correct in stating became can't be found (by me) in the root words used by Strong linked to KJV. In ISA2 I found:
(http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/9702/gen27.gif)
Larger image.

When looking deeper into the "Mood" of the verse there are some things that aren't visible in most translations. A better translation:

(Genesis 2:7 [CLV])
And forming is Yahweh Elohim the human of soil from the ground, and He is blowing into his nostrils the breath of the living, and becoming is the human a living soul.

At the end of this post the definition/explanations of the Stem and Mood used in this post.

Forming: Stem=Qal, Mood=Imperfect
Blowing: Stem=Qal, Mood=Imperfect
Becoming: I think it's also ==> Stem=Qal, Mood=Imperfect

The whole verse seems to be uncompleted actions.
God keeps forming.
God keeps blowing in live/air.
And the lump of clay keeps becoming alive.

It can be reasoned for example it took God 2 hours build Adam so that's why the imperfect mood is used. An so it also took 2 hours for that limp of clay to become alive. Those two hours have passed long ago; so now it's a completed action. But that's, imo, not how the Bible works. It makes clear in other verses some actions are completed (Stem perfect)

So could the alternative reading be:
God is still creating.
God is still "trying" to get that lump of clay to be alive.
Man still isn't a living soul but something in between.

In other words the verse merely describes God starting an activity that ends when God becomes all in all.


And when men is disobedient the process in temporarily interrupted and everything gradually returns to the before Gen 2:7

(Genesis 2:17 [CLV])
Yet from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you are not to be eating from it, for in the day you eat from it, to die shall you be dying.

Yep you likely guessed it by now.... :winkgrin:
Eating and dying: Stem=Qal, Mood=Imperfect


Enough blasphemy for one post  :blush:

Stem=Qal
Qal is the most frequently used verb pattern. It expresses the
"simple" or "causal" action of the root in the active voice.

Examples:
He sat,  he ate,  he went,  he said,  he rose,  he bought

This form accounts for 66.7% of the verbs parsed.

Mood=Imperfect

The imperfect expresses an action,  process or condition which is incomplete, 
and it has a wide range of meaning:

1a) It is used to describe a single (as opposed to a repeated) action
in the past; it differs from the perfect in being more vivid and
pictorial. The perfect expresses the "fact",  the imperfect adds
colour and movement by suggesting the "process" preliminary to its
completion.
He put forth his hand to the door
it came to a halt
I began to hear

1b) A phrase such as "What seekest thou?",  refers not only to the
present,  but assumes that the search has continued for some time.

Why do you weep?
Why refuse to eat?
Why are you distressed?

These relate not so much as to one occasion,  as to a
continued condition.

2) The kind of progression or imperfection and unfinished condition
of the action may consist in its frequent repetition.

2a) In the present:

it is "said" today
a wise son "maketh glad" his father

2b) In the past:

"and so he did"       -  regularly,  year by year
a mist "used to go up"
the fish which "we used to eat"
the manna "came down" -regularly
He "spoke"            -repeatedly

3) The imperfect is used to express the "future",  referring not only
to an action which is about to be accomplished but one which has
not yet begun:

3a) This may be a future from the point of view of the real
present; as:

Now "shalt thou    See what I will do"
"We will burn" thy house

3b) It may be a future from any other point of view assumed; as:
He took his son that "was to reign"
she stayed to    See what "should be done"

4) The usage of 3b may be taken as the transitive to a common use of
the imperfect in which it serves for an expression of those shades
of relation among acts and thoughts for which English prefers the
conditional moods. Such actions are strictly "future" in reference
to the assumed point of relation,  and the simple imperfect
sufficiently expresses them; e.g.

of every tree thou "mayest eat"
"could we know"
He "would" say

5a) The imperfect follows particles expressing "transition",
"purpose",  "result" and so forth as,  "in order that",  "lest"; e.g.

say thou art my sister,  "that it may be well with thee"
let us deal wisely with the nation,  "lest it multiplies"

5b) When however there is a strong feeling of "purpose",  or when it
is meant to be strongly marked,  then of course the moods are
employed; e.g.

raise me up "that I may requite them"
who will entice Ahab "that he may go up"
what shall we do "that the sea may be calm"

The moods are also employed to express that class of
future actions which we express in the "optative"

"may I die"
"may" the LORD "establish" his word
"may" the child "live".

[WhiteWings]

God created Adam from dust. Adam was nothing more that a dead lump of clay.
I don't consider that the lump clay was "dead" as you post. It was just the dust of the ground.

God is the great potter that uses clay :winkgrin:
I think clay and dust are related and linked to the meaning of the word Adam. But I think it's not important for this discussion. Whenever I write clay just read it as dust.

So it's clear that the breath gives life to the otherwise dead body.
Breath gives live to the formed dust of the ground.
The soul was already alive before it entered the body.
How do you figure that? There is no person or soul at this time.

There are verses that state that God has a soul.
How did I figure that? If you read my whole post you will notice I seem to contradict myself. You have to understand that most of what I wrote were no statements but conflicting thoughts I have on the subject. That said.
If we assume Fathers breath is the soul then obviously the soul was already alive because Father doesn't breath death.
Again just a thought. A thought I think is less likely that others. I'm just presenting bulding blocks for a discussion......

The dead body is dead.
Death as in dead had not yet entered into the scenerio yet. Any thought of death did not enter the equation until Gen. 2:17 And I reason man/adam had no idea what the heck it was.

Death is the original state.
Darkness is the absense of light.
Death is the absense of life.
God=life=light.
So things were dead before God made them alive. The fact that Adam didn't understand that, doesn't make it less true.

So it's very clear the lump of clay needs the breath (of God) to be alive. Yes.

But does the breath need the body to stay alive? No.
And how do we die?
Man quits beathing.

(Psalms 104:29 [ACV])
Thou hide thy face, they are troubled. Thou take away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.

Perhaps to literal but if God takes the breath, it's in His hands. Aka it returned to God? Yes, that is a truth.

What is breath according to you?
a] Body of dust?
b] Spirit?
c] Soul?
d] Something else? Please define.


(Isaiah 55:11 [ACV])
so shall my word be that goes forth out of my mouth. It shall not return to me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please. And it shall prosper in the thing to which I sent it.

I can find no matching words but in a way words are also breath. Likely taking things a bit to far.
Yes, too far. But since you are taking things a bit to far
Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God; that settles that. I hope.

Actually it doesn't  :winkgrin:
The Word obviously is Jesus. Jesus was more than just  a sound/noise.
So a word isn't just soundwaves but a whole complex being.
Viewing it from that angle I just as wel can state God breathes out (blowing live into dust). God breaths in (removing the life from the dust)

Back to Genesis.
(Genesis 2:7 [CLV])
And forming is Yahweh Elohim the human of soil from the ground, and He is blowing into his nostrils the breath of the living, and becoming is the human a living soul.

I think we have a little formula here....

Dead dust + breath = living soul I see no death in the dust. Death was unheard of at this point, as far as the writer is concerned.

I think the writer, HS, was/is smart enough to understand death before Adam understood it.

Living soul - breath (taken away by God) = Dead dust.  Living soul- breath= non existance

Not true. The body returns to the dust. Or becomes dust again.
Michah, lets take a closer look at became a living soul.
If something becomes a living soul it means it was dead before.
God took dust and formed Adam. Nothing mentioned about life yet.
But when God blows into the nostrils of Adam the verse continues adding the soul became a living soul.
That would imply the body God formed was a dead soul.
Meaning body=soul. But that seems to be refuted by:

(Matthew 10:28 [CLV])
And do not fear those who are killing the body, yet are not able to kill the soul. Yet be fearing Him, rather, Who is able to destroy the soul as well as the body in Gehenna."

Soul and body seem to be two different things.

Living soul - dead dust = breath  I don't follow that one?

Breath is life.
Just look at the body as a jar filled with breath. We then have  a living jar.
Remove the jar and the only thing left is breath.

So: Dead dust = dead soul  ==> Soul is just another word for dust.....?
Negative, that is your assumption. Where did you get "dead dust?" No soul is not just a word for dust. Again, your assumption.

You could be right, but it's also your assumption that my assumption is false.
I'm just trying to disect the verse and learn from it.

What if I compare it with a car and driver?

Car = body
gasoline = breath
Driver = spirit

The car drives until it runs out of gas (no more breath).
The car rusts until nothing is left. The driver takes the stairway to heaven.

The car is the body, good you got that part. the Gasoline and the driver are one and the same. The driver would not could not start to use the car without gasoline, the is the breath the breath is the spirit.

I don't understand that. First you say the gasoline and drive are the same, but right after that you speak about the driver and gasoline as being 2 different things. As for the read part I assume you mean gasoline is spirit or driver is spirit?

Ecc 12:7  And the dust return to the earth, as it was,—and, the spirit, return unto God, who gave it.
Where in the creation account does it state that God gives a spirit?

This is where I believe in my opinion the entire misunderstanding begins. The "breath of life" of Genesis is taught to be the "spirit" of God, when in a truth that spirt is the igniter to the dust of the ground formed by the Lord God become a living soul.

So the spirit is the sparkplug of your car? God turns the ignition key. The sparkplug gives a breath of life. And then the enigine keeps running.

I contend that that "breath of life," is not the VERY Spirit of which God is, but it is the "thing or the first miracle?" which causes our natural breathing ablility on this earth

Animals are also alive. They, just like Adam, have breath in their nostrils.
(Genesis 7:22 [CLV])
Everyone which has the breath of the spirit of the living in his nostrils, of all that were in the drained area, dies.

So both adam and man are made from dust. Both have recieved the breath of life. But Adam has a spirit retuning to God. So that must mean it must be added during the early Genesis verses. Otherwise there isn't much difference between man and beast. OTOH some claim animals also goto heaven...
:dontknow:

[WhiteWings]

Where in the creation account does it state that God gives a spirit?

27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God created he him;
male and female created he them. [Gen 1]

God creates man in his own image.  God is spirit.  Man is spirit, also.

God is holy, infinite, pure, almighty, etc.
Mankind is .......
?

But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.[Job 32:8]

IN man is not the same as IS man.
I drive IN a car, but I'm not A car.

[WhiteWings]

H7307 is translated into many different ways. I'll just post the first verses from Genesis to using H7307.

(Genesis 1:2 [KJV+])
And the earth was without form , and void ; and darkness was upon the face of the deep . And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters .

(Genesis 3:8 [KJV+])
And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day : and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden .

(Genesis 6:3 [KJV+])
And the LORD said , My spirit shall not always strive with man , for that he also is flesh : yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years .

(Genesis 6:17 [KJV+])
And, behold , I , even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth , to destroy all flesh , wherein is the breath of life , from under heaven ; and every thing that is in the earth shall die .

(Genesis 7:15 [KJV+])
And they went in unto Noah into the ark , two and two of all flesh , wherein is the breath of life .

(Genesis 7:22 [KJV+])
All in whose nostrils was the breath of life , of all that was in the dry land, died .

(Genesis 8:1 [KJV+])
And God remembered Noah , and every living thing , and all the cattle that was with him in the ark : and God made a wind to pass over the earth , and the waters asswaged ;

(Genesis 26:35 [KJV+])
Which were a grief of mind unto Isaac and to Rebekah .

(Genesis 41:8 [KJV+])
And it came to pass in the morning that his spirit was troubled ; and he sent and called for all the magicians of Egypt , and all the wise men thereof: and Pharaoh told them his dream ; but there was none that could interpret them unto Pharaoh .

(Genesis 41:38 [KJV+])
And Pharaoh said unto his servants , Can we find such a one as this is, a man in whom the Spirit of God is?

(Genesis 45:27 [KJV+])
And they told him all the words of Joseph , which he had said unto them: and when he saw the wagons which Joseph had sent to carry him, the spirit of Jacob their father revived :


H5315

(Genesis 1:20 [KJV+])
And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

(Genesis 1:21 [KJV+])
And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

(Genesis 1:24 [KJV+])
And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

(Genesis 1:30 [KJV+])
And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

(Genesis 2:7 [KJV+])
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

(Genesis 2:19 [KJV+])
And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

(Genesis 9:4 [KJV+])
But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.

(Genesis 9:5 [KJV+])
And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.

(Genesis 9:10 [KJV+])
And with every living creature that is with you, of the fowl, of the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you; from all that go out of the ark, to every beast of the earth.

(Genesis 9:12 [KJV+])
And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:

(Genesis 9:15 [KJV+])
And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.

(Genesis 9:16 [KJV+])
And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.

(Genesis 12:5 [KJV+])
And Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son, and all their substance that they had gathered, and the souls that they had gotten in Haran; and they went forth to go into the land of Canaan; and into the land of Canaan they came.

(Genesis 12:13 [KJV+])
Say, I pray thee, thou art my sister: that it may be well with me for thy sake; and my soul shall live because of thee.

(Genesis 14:21 [KJV+])
And the king of Sodom said unto Abram, Give me the persons, and take the goods to thyself.

(Genesis 17:14 [KJV+])
And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

(Genesis 19:17 [KJV+])
And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life; look not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed.

(Genesis 19:19 [KJV+])
Behold now, thy servant hath found grace in thy sight, and thou hast magnified thy mercy, which thou hast shewed unto me in saving my life; and I cannot escape to the mountain, lest some evil take me, and I die:

(Genesis 19:20 [KJV+])
Behold now, this city is near to flee unto, and it is a little one: Oh, let me escape thither, (is it not a little one?) and my soul shall live.

(Genesis 23:8 [KJV+])
And he communed with them, saying, If it be your mind that I should bury my dead out of my sight; hear me, and intreat for me to Ephron the son of Zohar,

(Genesis 27:4 [KJV+])
And make me savoury meat, such as I love, and bring it to me, that I may eat; that my soul may bless thee before I die.

(Genesis 27:19 [KJV+])
And Jacob said unto his father, I am Esau thy firstborn; I have done according as thou badest me: arise, I pray thee, sit and eat of my venison, that thy soul may bless me.

(Genesis 27:25 [KJV+])
And he said, Bring it near to me, and I will eat of my son's venison, that my soul may bless thee. And he brought it near to him, and he did eat: and he brought him wine, and he drank.

(Genesis 27:31 [KJV+])
And he also had made savoury meat, and brought it unto his father, and said unto his father, Let my father arise, and eat of his son's venison, that thy soul may bless me.

(Genesis 32:30 [KJV+])
And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

(Genesis 34:3 [KJV+])
And his soul clave unto Dinah the daughter of Jacob, and he loved the damsel, and spake kindly unto the damsel.

(Genesis 34:8 [KJV+])
And Hamor communed with them, saying, The soul of my son Shechem longeth for your daughter: I pray you give her him to wife.

(Genesis 35:18 [KJV+])
And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin.

(Genesis 36:6 [KJV+])
And Esau took his wives, and his sons, and his daughters, and all the persons of his house, and his cattle, and all his beasts, and all his substance, which he had got in the land of Canaan; and went into the country from the face of his brother Jacob.

(Genesis 37:21 [KJV+])
And Reuben heard it, and he delivered him out of their hands; and said, Let us not kill him.

[Molly]

ww why is Adam not deceived by the nachash but Eve is deceived?

[Molly]

Where in the creation account does it state that God gives a spirit?

27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God created he him;
male and female created he them. [Gen 1]

God creates man in his own image.  God is spirit.  Man is spirit, also.

God is holy, infinite, pure, almighty, etc.
Mankind is .......
?

But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.[Job 32:8]

IN man is not the same as IS man.
I drive IN a car, but I'm not A car.

Adam is God's spirit lowered into flesh and blood...a type of the one to come.

"God creates man in his own image.  God is spirit.  Man is spirit, also."

God is holy, infinite, pure, almighty, etc.
Mankind is .......
?

Think Jesus who had the Spirit without measure.  He was/is holy, infinite, pure, almighty, etc.

[livingwater1]

awake o SLEEPER, arise from the dead....



just who is this sleeper?  the soul????  could it be a dead soul.....that is to arise????     


.....and Christ will give you LIGHT


who is he giving LIGHT too???

a dead one.....could that be a soul?????



he is not giving light to a body is he?

he is not giving light to spirit is he???


the only thing left to "awaken" from death, is the soul.     



seems strange to me, that a soul can awaken....only to die again.     death to life,  then back to death so life again can happen....i think not.



all we see in the physical.....in my opinion supports the rising of the "soul" between the ears.   my 1 cent

[livingwater1]

We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death.


who is this "we" that has passed FROM death to LIFE???


is it our "body"?

is it just the breath?


or could it be the soul, the "who we are" between our ears.       whoever/whatever IT is, it is ALIVE.   ......only to die again......I don't think so.   


ALIVE is ALIVE, raised up from "sleep".   

[Molly]

In agreement with livingwater, Jesus says, Let the dead bury their dead, [Lk 9:60]

but as for you, go and proclaim everywhere the kingdom of God.