The chicken or the egg?

[Beloved Servant]

...that he wasn't already.

[Molly]

hayah;
Is that the same word in: I AM that I AM ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_that_I_Am

Yep.  I AM.

Before Abraham was, I AM.     HAYAH

And it's the same word about Adam in Genesis 2:7.

yes.

So...
Adam did not "become" anything.

Well, he did in the sense that a lump of clay = I AM=a living soul.

[Beloved Servant]

...and that Adam's life is not his own but is I AM

[sheila]

whew!   this thread give me 'the shivvies"

   and 'satan' has a prroblem...of who he actually attacks and tries to kill and condemn...it is GOD![no weapon formed against you will suceed]

    I AMbush!!!

[lomarah]

HEhehehehehehe Sheila I AMbush! hahahahaha

You know, my husband and I have been watching a new television show called 'Once Upon a Time', it's about all the fairytale characters who have had a curse put on them from the wicked witch. The curse is that they end up in our world and forget who they are and where they've come from. I can't seem to stop wondering if that is what has happened to us as well... (Not that we're fairytale creatures that have had a curse put on us by a wicked witch but you get my drift LOL)

:cloud9: That's exactly what happened to us. A spirit of forgetfulness was placed on us (carnal mind) and the mind of Christ is allowing us to recall things. He spoke to me while I was studying the Word, not too long after I came to Him, and He said, "You're not really learning this, you're REMEMBERING it." Being a newbie, I didn't realize what He had said to me was going to produce an earthquake in anyone I told, LOL....I thought it was my duty to tell what I heard. I was the poster child for having zeal without knowledge.  :icon_jokercolor:

:HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:
I've been there too Card!! (Zeal without knowledge.) Still slip up sometimes on that one haha.

[sheila]

Lomorah,

   My grand-daughter and I have been watching that show,also.   the 'witch' is babylon with her majic spells. Snow white is Jerusalem above,her daughter

   the 'only daughter of her 'mothe/betrothedr' her son=the manchild.   hidden in parables :dontknow:

[lomarah]

I know it's crazy how similar it is, eh??? After every show I am just blown away.

[micah7:9]

...and that Adam's life is not his own but is I AM

Sir you have certainly given much to think about. Thank you. Still in this sense and understanding, in my opinion(which does not seem to be much) the I AM is just having an on going battle with Himself, and inner conflict of good and bad, light and darkness, and the living/breathing soul is neurotic. :sigh:
But thank you for bringing that to my attention again, just never thought about it as you speak of it, and it is very interesting all over again. Thank you again. :HeartThrob:

I most certainly brings this verse into a greater understanding Php 2:13  for God it is who is working in you both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

[thinktank]

Now tell me friend are you going to begin to build on that one out taking? "to fall out?"
H1961
היה
hâyâh
BDB Definition:
1) to be, become, come to pass, exist, happen, fall out
1a) (Qal)
1a1) -----
1a1a) to happen, fall out, occur, take place, come about, come to pass
1a1b) to come about, come to pass
1a2) to come into being, become
1a2a) to arise, appear, come
1a2b) to become
1a2b1) to become
1a2b2) to become like
1a2b3) to be instituted, be established
1a3) to be
1a3a) to exist, be in existence
1a3b) to abide, remain, continue (with word of place or time)
1a3c) to stand, lie, be in, be at, be situated (with word of locality)
1a3d) to accompany, be with
1b) (Niphal)
1b1) to occur, come to pass, be done, be brought about
1b2) to be done, be finished, be gone
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by BDB/Strong's Number: a primitive root [compare H1933]
Same Word by TWOT Number: 491
Strongs
H1961
היה
hâyâh
haw-yaw'
A primitive root (compare H1933); to exist, that is, be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary): - beacon, X altogether, be (-come, accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), continue, do, faint, fall, + follow, happen, X have, last, pertain, quit (one-) self, require, X use.

Fall out, as in fall out of a sky, dropping seed into the earth, fruit falling out from tree, bringing forth much fruit

It is written, sown a natural body.

:icon_flower:

[micah7:9]

I get  your point TT, yet there are SEVERAL other meanings as well. Why did or do you just lift our "fall?"

[thinktank]

I get  your point TT, yet there are SEVERAL other meanings as well. Why did or do you just lift our "fall?"

Not sure what you mean.

[Molly]

....Adam ..., who is the figure of him that was to come.

--Rom 5:14


"figure"
G3667
ὁμοίωμα
homoiōma
hom-oy'-o-mah
From G3666; a form; abstractly resemblance: - made like to, likeness, shape, similitude.

   
ὁμοίωμα

Derivation: from G3666;
KJV Usage: made like to, likeness, shape, similitude. G3666
Thayer:
1) that which has been made after the likeness of something
1a) a figure, image, likeness, representation
1b) likeness i.e. resemblance, such as amounts almost to equality or identity
Trench's New Testament Synonyms
Image

[Beloved Servant]

It's all about the garden, Micah!
We're hedged in.

[Beloved Servant]

yep.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1lTJUFHiOE

[micah7:9]

Quote from: Beloved Servant on December 02, 2011, 09:45:15 AM



  "  ...and that Adam's life is not his own but is I AM"


Sir you have certainly given much to think about. Thank you. Still in this sense and understanding, in my opinion(which does not seem to be much) the I AM is just having an on going battle with Himself, and inner conflict of good and bad, light and darkness, and the living/breathing soul is neurotic. :sigh:

I would seem to me, in my opinion that there is much assumption and wishful imagination in the "how comes" that were spirit first.
But thank you for bringing that to my attention again,( "become and I AM=same) just never thought about it as you speak of it, and it is very interesting all over again. Thank you again. :HeartThrob:

It most certainly brings this verse into a greater understanding Php 2:13  for God it is who is working in you both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

[micah7:9]

"I think you make an error when you say man was at first a spirit.  The scriptures do not support that view, and Science knows nothing about spirit so we must rely upon God and the scriptures for the truth.

Before I was born, I did not exist.  When I was born, God gave me the spirit of life, and I became a living soul or being.  When I die, my unconscious spirit returns to God, my body becomes dust, and my soul, my sentient being ceases to be and goes to the unknown.  My thoughts cease." John from Kentucky

I would only change " my unconscious spirit returns to God." to my unconscious breath returns to God.

[micah7:9]

2Ti 4:2  preach the word; be earnest in season, out of season, convict, rebuke, exhort, in all long-suffering and teaching,
2Ti 4:3  for there shall be a season when the sound teaching they will not suffer, but according to their own desires to themselves they shall heap up teachers--itching in the hearing,
2Ti 4:4  and indeed, from the truth the hearing they shall turn away, and to the fables they shall be turned aside.

I do not, in my opinion, find this to be sound doctrine..."Bro. Eby has so well written, we are not a human being having a spiritual experience, but a spiritual being having a human experience."

[Beloved Servant]

Oh sweet Micah;
We are His sons.
We exist in Him (Seed) and His Wisdom (Christ) birthed us.

[micah7:9]

Staying within the "Chicken or the Egg" idea; for those who believe in a "Second Coming," (staying within a basic teaching of Paul)

1Co 15:46 But not first the spiritual, but the soulish, thereupon the spiritual."

Will Jesus return in the physical or in spirit?  :HeartThrob:

[thinktank]

Staying within the "Chicken or the Egg" idea; for those who believe in a "Second Coming," (staying within a basic teaching of Paul)

1Co 15:46 But not first the spiritual, but the soulish, thereupon the spiritual."

Will Jesus return in the physical or in spirit?  :HeartThrob:

Jesus has already returned in spirit, but his resurected body that the disciples handled, has yet to appear.

[micah7:9]

Oh.  Do you have any verses for this?  Also does that nullify this basic teaching of Paul?
1Co 15:46 But not first the spiritual, but the soulish, thereupon the spiritual." 
How does Him coming in the natural "again" figure in?

[thinktank]

Oh.  Do you have any verses for this?  Also does that nullify this basic teaching of Paul?
1Co 15:46 But not first the spiritual, but the soulish, thereupon the spiritual." 
How does Him coming in the natural "again" figure in?

Even though its physical God deems it as spiritual, for it is not fashioned as our vile body but towards his glorious body.

Philippians 3:21
Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

[jabcat]

I mentioned something earlier about this, but I don't think you "liked" it much :)

I don't believe any scripture nullifies another, but there is context/primary purpose to be considered.  I.e., I haven't studied it all out carefully, but was Paul talking about absolutely everything and every situation, or a certain set of principles?    Because to me, the question remains, if his statement applies to absolutely everything, then it doesn't explain how Jesus was first spirit, then came in the natural.  Also, that God was and is always Spirit first.  So for me, there's not any nullifying to do, but trying to see how it all might fit together.   :2c:

[micah7:9]

Are you a lawyer? :bigGrin:

[CHB]

I mentioned something earlier about this, but I don't think you "liked" it much :)

I don't believe any scripture nullifies another, but there is context/primary purpose to be considered.  I.e., I haven't studied it all out carefully, but was Paul talking about absolutely everything and every situation, or a certain set of principles?    Because to me, the question remains, if his statement applies to absolutely everything, then it doesn't explain how Jesus was first spirit, then came in the natural.  Also, that God was and is always Spirit first.  So for me, there's not any nullifying to do, but trying to see how it all might fit together.   :2c:

Jesus was first natural, then spirit. Jesus wasn't known as JESUS until he became flesh. What does (1John 4:2 and 2John 7) mean?  Adam was natural first because it was after God made Adam from the dirt that he breathed into Adam and he became a living soul. There was no JESUS or ADAM until God created them.

CHB