Let there be light

[Molly]

They were all in agreement.  But, creation happened through Jesus,

It's even possible Jesus also spoke  those words together with the rest of the group.


BTW this sorta refutes pre-existance....

I guess it depends how you interpret statements like this--

just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love
--Eph 1:4

[Molly]

Our Bible doesn't tell us everything.  There are ages before and ages after that we are not told much about.

It's on a need to know basis.

"There is so much more I want to tell you, but you can't bear it now
--John 16:12

[WhiteWings]

They were all in agreement.  But, creation happened through Jesus,

It's even possible Jesus also spoke  those words together with the rest of the group.


BTW this sorta refutes pre-existance....

I guess it depends how you interpret statements like this--

just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love
--Eph 1:4

Joh 5:37 And the Father Who sends Me, He has testified concerning Me. Neither have you ever heard His voice nor a perception of Him have you seen."

So billions who have been in heaven for an unknown length of time never met Father?
BTW I assume the verse isn't only about the flesh and blood man because the Bible is a spiritual Book.

[Molly]

They were all in agreement.  But, creation happened through Jesus,

It's even possible Jesus also spoke  those words together with the rest of the group.


BTW this sorta refutes pre-existance....

I guess it depends how you interpret statements like this--

just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love
--Eph 1:4

Joh 5:37 And the Father Who sends Me, He has testified concerning Me. Neither have you ever heard His voice nor a perception of Him have you seen."

So billions who have been in heaven for an unknown length of time never met Father?
BTW I assume the verse isn't only about the flesh and blood man because the Bible is a spiritual Book.

He goes on to say this:

38And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

He's talking to the Pharisees who spend all their time studying the word presumably.

That means the ones who do have his word abiding in them will believe Jesus.

So something's going on here that has to do with the lottery I suspect.

[WhiteWings]

But that's not my point. I agree there are very good/holy and very bad/evil people on earth.
But if they pre-existed in heaven then they met God.
This gives us few options:
a] Pre-existance is false.
b] The verse is only about the earthly man.
c] We Pre-exited but God never showed Himself in heaven.

That means the ones who do have his word abiding in them will believe Jesus.

Yes. But how is that relevant to pre-existance?

[Molly]

But that's not my point. I agree there are very good/holy and very bad/evil people on earth.
But if they pre-existed in heaven then they met God.
This gives us few options:
a] Pre-existance is false.
b] The verse is only about the earthly man.
c] We Pre-exited but God never showed Himself in heaven.

That means the ones who do have his word abiding in them will believe Jesus.

Yes. But how is that relevant to pre-existance?

They remember?

27 My sheep recognize my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one will snatch them away from me, 29 for my Father has given them to me, and he is more powerful than anyone else. So no one can take them from me. 30 The Father and I are one."
--John 10

[WhiteWings]

Do you remember? Anyone?


Personally I think the sheep stuff is about this life.

[sheila]

   It WAS BECUSE GOD HADN"T REVEALED HIMSELF YET,WE WERE BUT BABES,ASLEEP MOSTLY..IN THE NURSERY OF HEAVEN[the little children

  partake of flesh and blood] The creation day the Heavens were made...we were star seed.......the sixth day...these seed were...sown in the earth..

   in this way we were pre-destined to be with HIM.HE FOREKNEW US. HE declares what will be from the beginning.

   it is like a Bar-Mitzbah.........the creature was subjected to vanity,not of it's own will,but by the will of He who subjected it.   being sown

  in this earth /death realm..is the vanity part...but,UNLESS A SEED FALL TO THE EARTH AND DIE IT CAN NOT BEAR FRUIT UNTO HEAVEN=

   change into it's immortal form


     In other words...this is the 'form' of the 'creature'or the sons of God.....spiritual offspring of ALMIGHTY GOD.  We are a two-part creation...

  undergoing metamorphisis[changes form]  like a caterpillar/butterfly creature

       The day He created the Heavens...this two-part creature was there as HOLY SEED. Now a few do have memories of being sent down.

    BUT REMEMBER,THE CREATURE WAS SOWN NOT OF IT'S OWN WILL[BUT BY THE WILL OF GOD WHO SUBJECTED IT]-IN ORDER TO SET

  THE WHOLE CREATION FREE INTO THE GLORIOUS FREEDOM OF THE SONS OF GOD- in other words that it be raised up immortal in

  it's finished form.

   So, on it's way to maturity...the Holy seed[offspring] of God..must first be sown a natural body..and must die..before the immortal life in it

  is raised up into heaven

    they had not yet seen His form or heard His voice.....because of this developemental process of the seed......only when it is as He is..does the creature

  fully know it's Father.. Each seed must have it's exercize in good and evil expierance. Satan was formerly in heaven and provide the 'evil' for the first

  12[archangels] of which Jesus was one

    the 'seed' is gathered into the 'Barn" of heaven..because that is where it originated from...you must be born again from above..is speaking of the

   final eternal stage of the creature......where it bears the image of it's Father[mature]

[Molly]

John 10:4
And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.


[they] "know" [his voice]
G1492
εἴδω
eidō
i'-do
A primary verb; used only in certain past tenses, the others being borrowed from the equivalent, G3700 and G3708; properly to see (literally or figuratively); by implication (in the perfect only) to know: - be aware, behold, X can (+ not tell), consider, (have) known (-ledge), look (on), perceive, see, be sure, tell, understand, wist, wot. Compare G3700.

[Molly]

Do you remember? Anyone?


Personally I think the sheep stuff is about this life.

I have always known his voice, from my earliest memories.

I suspect many here would agree.

I know others who have a Paul like experience, and all of a sudden they know him.

Sheep because we don't know anything apart from him.

[redhotmagma]

Sheila what is this?   Satan was formerly in heaven and provide the 'evil' for the first

  12[archangels] of which Jesus was one

[lomarah]

So Sheila are you saying that God forknew us all? Not just the elect? I have often wondered how God could forknow some and not others.

[WhiteWings]

So Sheila are you saying that God forknew us all? Not just the elect? I have often wondered how God could forknow some and not others.

That would mean God doesn't know everything.

[Molly]

So Sheila are you saying that God forknew us all? Not just the elect? I have often wondered how God could forknow some and not others.

That would mean God doesn't know everything.

(Rom 9:10-13)  Not only that, but Rebekah's children had one and the same father, our father Isaac. 11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad–in order that God's purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls–she was told, "The older will serve the younger." 13 Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."

[WhiteWings]

What's your point Molly?

[Molly]

What's your point Molly?

Esau was not elect but God foreknew him.

[sheila]

RHM

  above the 12 signs of the zodiac.. dwell the oldest  Sons of God..Jacobs 12 sons were after this heavenly pattern...they serve as Preists for Father

   The  Heavens that declare the Glory of God and man's salvation..are their symbols. Jesus was one of the original ones who come down to earth

  as 'the word of God'... Michael was another one...as Gabriel..and Pravuel 'the man with the inkhorn" know as the Holy Ghost.

     They minister to us,according to His will...

   Now, when the ARK is opened in Heaven...Father is sending forth these..as written in Revelations.  Did we not know that at His return  He comes with

   POWER AND GREAT GLORY...THE ARMIES OF THE HEAVENLY HOSTS WITH HIM.


   And yes,WW He foreknew us all..because we all are created by His thoughts and Word....now star differs from star in Glory...and just as we have

  child prodigies in the flesh..there are spiritual prodigies..made so by FATHER....some children are 'quicker' spiritually speaking...than others..made so by Father

  for a special purpose/function

    Now, I have no memory of life before in heaven...but I know that at a very early age I felt that some sort of mistake had been made..and I wasn't supposed to

  be down here,but my real home was in heaven.I also know of others that do have a distinct memory of being up in heaven.

   some babes are more alert than others...some sleep alot...and some don't...some babes sleep their whole time down here,and only awaken in heaven

   dawn is our wake-up time..son rising....I will awaken the dawn[light]

   Now,all mankind is elected for eternal life...but there is an order to it..some are called to serve a spiritual function on earth..for the majority of the children

  this  is not so..but when they rise/return..He places them in the angelic hosts to serve in their place. Some of the children on earth are given over to display

  the'evil' portion of the exercize in good and evil...as examples for the whole family's learning.. But it is Father's doing of who serves when and where and in what way

[Beloved Servant]

Pravuel  ?   

[sheila]

  BUT YOU HAVE COME TO MOUNT ZION,THE CITY OF THE LIVING GOD,YOU HAVE COME TO MYRIADS OF ANGELS IN JOYFUL ASSEMBLY

  TO THE CHURCH OF THE FIRSTBORN WHOSE NAMES ARE WRITTEN IN HEAVEN

[Beloved Servant]

Pravuel       <———Where is his name written?

[sheila]

Secreats of Enoch

[Beloved Servant]

I do not know him.

[sheila]

 
   YOU WILL!!!

[thinktank]

What's the difference between Y'hovah elohiym and Y'shuah elohiym?   Man.

The Father is greater than the Son

[Beloved Servant]

Philippians 2:9;
Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
   and gave him the Name that is above every name


The name of Jesus Christ is above every other.