Who was speaking in Gen 1:3 and God saith, `Let light be;' and light is. It was not the Father.
Joh 5:37 And the Father Who sends Me, He has testified concerning Me. Neither have you ever heard His voice nor a perception of Him have you seen."
Elohiym.
The Word before Flesh.
What does that mean? "The Word before flesh??
John 1:1
Quote from: micah7:9 on August 04, 2011, 05:34:24 AM
Who was speaking in Gen 1:3 and God saith, `Let light be;' and light is. It was not the Father.
Joh 5:37 And the Father Who sends Me, He has testified concerning Me. Neither have you ever heard His voice nor a perception of Him have you seen."
ACVGen 13 And God said, Let there be light, and there was light.
4 And God saw
את the light, that it was good. And God divided the light from the darkness.
אלהים
'ĕlôhı̂ym
BDB Definition:
1) (plural)
1a) rulers, judges
1b) divine ones
1c) angels
1d) gods
2) (plural intensive - singular meaning)
2a) god, goddess
2b) godlike one
2c) works or special possessions of God
2d) the (true) God
2e) God
ACVJob 384 Where were thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare, if thou have understanding.
5 Who determined the measures of it, if thou know? Or who stretched the line upon it?
6 Upon what were the foundations of it fastened? Or who laid the corner-stone of it
7 when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
(In My making a cloud its clothing, And thick darkness its
swaddling band)
ACVJob 38
4 Where were thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? Yes a question where was Job when the foundation was layed? Did job give an answer, no. God said "Declare, if thou hast known understanding.
Beloved Servant has spoken the truth......Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God;
Quote from: Molly on August 04, 2011, 05:48:55 AM
Elohiym.
"...Neither have you
ever heard His voice nor a perception of Him have you seen."
Quote from: micah7:9 on August 04, 2011, 10:57:06 AM
Quote from: Molly on August 04, 2011, 05:48:55 AM
Elohiym.
"...Neither have you ever heard His voice nor a perception of Him have you seen."
Elohiym is plural...
You got that right.
Pfewww.... :winkgrin:
If you agree with that I don't understand your reply to Molly's post.
Quote from: WhiteWings on August 04, 2011, 11:15:39 AM
Quote from: micah7:9 on August 04, 2011, 10:57:06 AM
Quote from: Molly on August 04, 2011, 05:48:55 AM
Elohiym.
"...Neither have you ever heard His voice nor a perception of Him have you seen."
Elohiym is plural...
So is the trinity.
So is the divine council.
divine onesAnd Y'hovah elohiym said, Behold the man has become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever....--Gen 3
Quote from: WhiteWings on August 04, 2011, 12:11:11 PM
Pfewww.... :winkgrin:
If you agree with that I don't understand your reply to Molly's post.
Her post is not in tune with the word of God.
4And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5For elohiym doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as elohiym, knowing good and evil.
--Gen 3
You have to admit it sounded good. Elohiym are immortal.
Quote from: micah7:9 on August 04, 2011, 12:18:45 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on August 04, 2011, 12:11:11 PM
Pfewww.... :winkgrin:
If you agree with that I don't understand your reply to Molly's post.
Her post is not in tune with the word of God.
It's in tune with the Bible.
Who was speaking in Gen 1:3 and God saith, `Let light be;' and light is. It was not the Father.
Joh 5:37 And the Father Who sends Me, He has testified concerning Me. Neither have you ever heard His voice nor a perception of Him have you seen."
Why do you say elohiem?
Quote from: micah7:9 on August 04, 2011, 10:57:06 AM
Quote from: Molly on August 04, 2011, 05:48:55 AM
Elohiym.
"...Neither have you ever heard His voice nor a perception of Him have you seen."
Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
--John 14:9
So Who was speaking in Gen 1:3 and God saith, `Let light be;' and light is.?
What's the difference between Y'hovah elohiym and Y'shuah elohiym? Man.
Quote from: micah7:9 on August 04, 2011, 12:36:48 PM
So Who was speaking in Gen 1:3 and God saith, `Let light be;' and light is.?
elohiym.
Quote from: micah7:9 on August 04, 2011, 12:22:10 PM
Who was speaking in Gen 1:3 and God saith, `Let light be;' and light is. It was not the Father.
Joh 5:37 And the Father Who sends Me, He has testified concerning Me. Neither have you ever heard His voice nor a perception of Him have you seen."
Why do you say elohiem?
It was plural. So it was a whole group (Elohiym)
Could it be the morning stars/sons of God?
ACVJob 38
4 Where were thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare, if thou have understanding.
5 Who determined the measures of it, if thou know? Or who stretched the line upon it?
6 Upon what were the foundations of it fastened? Or who laid the corner-stone of it
7 when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Quote from: WhiteWings on August 04, 2011, 12:39:47 PM
Quote from: micah7:9 on August 04, 2011, 12:22:10 PM
Who was speaking in Gen 1:3 and God saith, `Let light be;' and light is. It was not the Father.
Joh 5:37 And the Father Who sends Me, He has testified concerning Me. Neither have you ever heard His voice nor a perception of Him have you seen."
Why do you say elohiem?
It was plural. So it was a whole group (Elohiym)
Could it be the morning stars/sons of God?
ACVJob 38
4 Where were thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare, if thou have understanding.
5 Who determined the measures of it, if thou know? Or who stretched the line upon it?
6 Upon what were the foundations of it fastened? Or who laid the corner-stone of it
7 when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
They were all in agreement. But, creation happened through Jesus,
15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
--Col 1
Quote from: Molly on August 04, 2011, 12:44:49 PM
They were all in agreement. But, creation happened through Jesus,
It's even possible Jesus also spoke those words together with the rest of the group.
BTW this sorta refutes pre-existance....
Quote from: WhiteWings on August 04, 2011, 12:49:06 PM
Quote from: Molly on August 04, 2011, 12:44:49 PM
They were all in agreement. But, creation happened through Jesus,
It's even possible Jesus also spoke those words together with the rest of the group.
BTW this sorta refutes pre-existance....
I guess it depends how you interpret statements like this--
just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love--Eph 1:4
Our Bible doesn't tell us everything. There are ages before and ages after that we are not told much about.
It's on a need to know basis.
"There is so much more I want to tell you, but you can't bear it now
--John 16:12
Quote from: Molly on August 04, 2011, 12:54:29 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on August 04, 2011, 12:49:06 PM
Quote from: Molly on August 04, 2011, 12:44:49 PM
They were all in agreement. But, creation happened through Jesus,
It's even possible Jesus also spoke those words together with the rest of the group.
BTW this sorta refutes pre-existance....
I guess it depends how you interpret statements like this--
just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love
--Eph 1:4
Joh 5:37 And the Father Who sends Me, He has testified concerning Me. Neither have you ever heard His voice nor a perception of Him have you seen."
So billions who have been in heaven for an unknown length of time never met Father?
BTW I assume the verse isn't only about the flesh and blood man because the Bible is a spiritual Book.
Quote from: WhiteWings on August 04, 2011, 01:14:12 PM
Quote from: Molly on August 04, 2011, 12:54:29 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on August 04, 2011, 12:49:06 PM
Quote from: Molly on August 04, 2011, 12:44:49 PM
They were all in agreement. But, creation happened through Jesus,
It's even possible Jesus also spoke those words together with the rest of the group.
BTW this sorta refutes pre-existance....
I guess it depends how you interpret statements like this--
just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love
--Eph 1:4
Joh 5:37 And the Father Who sends Me, He has testified concerning Me. Neither have you ever heard His voice nor a perception of Him have you seen."
So billions who have been in heaven for an unknown length of time never met Father?
BTW I assume the verse isn't only about the flesh and blood man because the Bible is a spiritual Book.
He goes on to say this:
38And ye have not his word
abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
He's talking to the Pharisees who spend all their time studying the word presumably.
That means the ones who do have his word abiding in them will believe Jesus.
So something's going on here that has to do with the lottery I suspect.
But that's not my point. I agree there are very good/holy and very bad/evil people on earth.
But if they pre-existed in heaven then they met God.
This gives us few options:
a] Pre-existance is false.
b] The verse is only about the earthly man.
c] We Pre-exited but God never showed Himself in heaven.
QuoteThat means the ones who do have his word abiding in them will believe Jesus.
Yes. But how is that relevant to pre-existance?
Quote from: WhiteWings on August 04, 2011, 02:03:36 PM
But that's not my point. I agree there are very good/holy and very bad/evil people on earth.
But if they pre-existed in heaven then they met God.
This gives us few options:
a] Pre-existance is false.
b] The verse is only about the earthly man.
c] We Pre-exited but God never showed Himself in heaven.
QuoteThat means the ones who do have his word abiding in them will believe Jesus.
Yes. But how is that relevant to pre-existance?
They remember?
27 My sheep recognize my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one will snatch them away from me, 29 for my Father has given them to me, and he is more powerful than anyone else. So no one can take them from me. 30 The Father and I are one."
--John 10
Do you remember? Anyone?
Personally I think the sheep stuff is about this life.
It WAS BECUSE GOD HADN"T REVEALED HIMSELF YET,WE WERE BUT BABES,ASLEEP MOSTLY..IN THE NURSERY OF HEAVEN[the little children
partake of flesh and blood] The creation day the Heavens were made...we were star seed.......the sixth day...these seed were...sown in the earth..
in this way we were pre-destined to be with HIM.HE FOREKNEW US. HE declares what will be from the beginning.
it is like a Bar-Mitzbah.........the creature was subjected to vanity,not of it's own will,but by the will of He who subjected it. being sown
in this earth /death realm..is the vanity part...but,UNLESS A SEED FALL TO THE EARTH AND DIE IT CAN NOT BEAR FRUIT UNTO HEAVEN=
change into it's immortal form
In other words...this is the 'form' of the 'creature'or the sons of God.....spiritual offspring of ALMIGHTY GOD. We are a two-part creation...
undergoing metamorphisis[changes form] like a caterpillar/butterfly creature
The day He created the Heavens...this two-part creature was there as HOLY SEED. Now a few do have memories of being sent down.
BUT REMEMBER,THE CREATURE WAS SOWN NOT OF IT'S OWN WILL[BUT BY THE WILL OF GOD WHO SUBJECTED IT]-IN ORDER TO SET
THE WHOLE CREATION FREE INTO THE GLORIOUS FREEDOM OF THE SONS OF GOD- in other words that it be raised up immortal in
it's finished form.
So, on it's way to maturity...the Holy seed[offspring] of God..must first be sown a natural body..and must die..before the immortal life in it
is raised up into heaven
they had not yet seen His form or heard His voice.....because of this developemental process of the seed......only when it is as He is..does the creature
fully know it's Father.. Each seed must have it's exercize in good and evil expierance. Satan was formerly in heaven and provide the 'evil' for the first
12[archangels] of which Jesus was one
the 'seed' is gathered into the 'Barn" of heaven..because that is where it originated from...you must be born again from above..is speaking of the
final eternal stage of the creature......where it bears the image of it's Father[mature]
John 10:4
And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
[they] "know" [his voice]
G1492
εἴδω
eidō
i'-do
A primary verb; used only in certain past tenses, the others being borrowed from the equivalent, G3700 and G3708; properly to see (literally or figuratively); by implication (in the perfect only) to know: - be aware, behold, X can (+ not tell), consider, (have) known (-ledge), look (on), perceive, see, be sure, tell, understand, wist, wot. Compare G3700.
Quote from: WhiteWings on August 04, 2011, 03:13:36 PM
Do you remember? Anyone?
Personally I think the sheep stuff is about this life.
I have always known his voice, from my earliest memories.
I suspect many here would agree.
I know others who have a Paul like experience, and all of a sudden they know him.
Sheep because we don't know anything apart from him.
Sheila what is this? Satan was formerly in heaven and provide the 'evil' for the first
12[archangels] of which Jesus was one
So Sheila are you saying that God forknew us all? Not just the elect? I have often wondered how God could forknow some and not others.
Quote from: lomarah on August 04, 2011, 04:35:04 PM
So Sheila are you saying that God forknew us all? Not just the elect? I have often wondered how God could forknow some and not others.
That would mean God doesn't know everything.
Quote from: WhiteWings on August 04, 2011, 04:38:35 PM
Quote from: lomarah on August 04, 2011, 04:35:04 PM
So Sheila are you saying that God forknew us all? Not just the elect? I have often wondered how God could forknow some and not others.
That would mean God doesn't know everything.
(Rom 9:10-13) Not only that, but Rebekah's children had one and the same father, our father Isaac. 11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad–in order that God's purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls–she was told, "The older will serve the younger." 13 Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."
What's your point Molly?
Quote from: WhiteWings on August 04, 2011, 04:47:57 PM
What's your point Molly?
Esau was not elect but God foreknew him.
RHM
above the 12 signs of the zodiac.. dwell the oldest Sons of God..Jacobs 12 sons were after this heavenly pattern...they serve as Preists for Father
The Heavens that declare the Glory of God and man's salvation..are their symbols. Jesus was one of the original ones who come down to earth
as 'the word of God'... Michael was another one...as Gabriel..and Pravuel 'the man with the inkhorn" know as the Holy Ghost.
They minister to us,according to His will...
Now, when the ARK is opened in Heaven...Father is sending forth these..as written in Revelations. Did we not know that at His return He comes with
POWER AND GREAT GLORY...THE ARMIES OF THE HEAVENLY HOSTS WITH HIM.
And yes,WW He foreknew us all..because we all are created by His thoughts and Word....now star differs from star in Glory...and just as we have
child prodigies in the flesh..there are spiritual prodigies..made so by FATHER....some children are 'quicker' spiritually speaking...than others..made so by Father
for a special purpose/function
Now, I have no memory of life before in heaven...but I know that at a very early age I felt that some sort of mistake had been made..and I wasn't supposed to
be down here,but my real home was in heaven.I also know of others that do have a distinct memory of being up in heaven.
some babes are more alert than others...some sleep alot...and some don't...some babes sleep their whole time down here,and only awaken in heaven
dawn is our wake-up time..son rising....I will awaken the dawn[light]
Now,all mankind is elected for eternal life...but there is an order to it..some are called to serve a spiritual function on earth..for the majority of the children
this is not so..but when they rise/return..He places them in the angelic hosts to serve in their place. Some of the children on earth are given over to display
the'evil' portion of the exercize in good and evil...as examples for the whole family's learning.. But it is Father's doing of who serves when and where and in what way
Pravuel ?
BUT YOU HAVE COME TO MOUNT ZION,THE CITY OF THE LIVING GOD,YOU HAVE COME TO MYRIADS OF ANGELS IN JOYFUL ASSEMBLY
TO THE CHURCH OF THE FIRSTBORN WHOSE NAMES ARE WRITTEN IN HEAVEN
Pravuel <———Where is his name written?
Secreats of Enoch
I do not know him.
YOU WILL!!!
Quote from: Molly on August 04, 2011, 12:37:43 PM
What's the difference between Y'hovah elohiym and Y'shuah elohiym? Man.
The Father is greater than the Son
Philippians 2:9;
Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the Name that is above every name
The name of Jesus Christ is above every other.
Quote from: redhotmagma on August 04, 2011, 03:39:08 PM
Sheila what is this? Satan was formerly in heaven and provide the 'evil' for the first
12[archangels] of which Jesus was one
Jesus is no archangel. He created them.
Colossians 1:16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Revelation 4:11
Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
Matthew 11:27
All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
1:5 For to which of the angels did God 12 ever say, "You are my son! Today I have fathered you"? 13 And in another place 14 he says, 15 "I will be his father and he will be my son." 16 1:6 But when he again brings 17 his firstborn into the world, he says, "Let all the angels of God worship him!" 18 1:7 And he says 19 of the angels, "He makes 20 his angels spirits and his ministers a flame of fire," 21 1:8 but of 22 the Son he says, 23
"Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, 24
and a righteous scepter 25 is the scepter of your kingdom.
1:9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness.
So God, your God, has anointed you over your companions 26 with the oil of rejoicing." 27
1:10 And,
"You founded the earth in the beginning, Lord, 28
and the heavens are the works of your hands.
1:11 They will perish, but you continue.
And they will all grow old like a garment,
1:12 and like a robe you will fold them up
and like a garment 29 they will be changed,
but you are the same and your years will never run out." 30
1:13 But to which of the angels 31 has he ever said, "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet"? 32 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent out to serve those 33 who will inherit salvation?
Even the Father calls His own Son God. But Jesus said Father is greater, for Father is before the Son.
That, was while Jesus walked the earth.
Quote from: thinktank on August 04, 2011, 07:15:41 PM
Even the Father calls His own Son God. But Jesus said Father is greater, for Father is before the Son.
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2The same was in the beginning with God.
--John 1
they are ALL ONE TT.......the 'creature' is the whole creation...[Heavens included] GOD IS ALL IN ALL
the 'word of God' is Father's Creative POWER. HE IS MAKING AN IMMORTAL FAMILY...our design is pattered after the Heavenly...
in him was life,and that life was the light.....the children of the light.... they are like the angels..they are God's children
In the beginning was the 'word''.....let us make man in our image...but do not forget the previous 6 days of creation...
All things are created by him and for Him[God].. the FATHER IS GREATER THAN I...the Father and I are 'one'
1 Cor 15;26 the last enemy to be destroyed is death,for he has put everything under his feet.....
NOW........WHEN IT SAYS THAT EVERYTHING HAS BEEN PUT UNDER HIM;IT IS CLEAR THAT THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE GOD HIMSELF[note this distinction]
WHO PUT EVERYTHING UNDER CHRIST WHEN HE HAS DONE THIS....THEN THE SON HIMSELF WILL BE MADE SUBJECT TO HIM WHO PUT
EVERYTHING UNDER HIM........SO THAT GOD MAY BE ALL IN ALL
Quote from: Molly on August 04, 2011, 07:20:40 PM
Quote from: thinktank on August 04, 2011, 07:15:41 PM
Even the Father calls His own Son God. But Jesus said Father is greater, for Father is before the Son.
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2The same was in the beginning with God.
--John 1
I understand your reluctance on this. But it does not take anything from Jesus, but adds understanding, at least from what I have read from both the terminology used and the following scriptures.
Some people say he is called Son to give us understanding of a close relationship.
If Jesus was from everlasting then he would be called the brother of YAHWEH Father GOD LORD OF HOSTS. But
Colossians1
3We give thanks to God and the
Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,
12Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
20And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Hebrews 1:3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and
the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
1 Corinthians 8:6
But to us there is but one God, the
Father, of whom are all things (Jesus the Only begotten SON), and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things(The WORD by Him ALL things created), and we by him.
The heavens praise your wonders, O LORD, your faithfulness too, in the assembly of the holy ones.
--Psa 89:5
In the council of the holy ones God[el] is greatly feared; he is more awesome than all who surround him.
--Psa 89:7
Quote from: sheila on August 04, 2011, 07:33:00 PM
they are ALL ONE TT.......the 'creature' is the whole creation...[Heavens included] GOD IS ALL IN ALL
the 'word of God' is Father's Creative POWER. HE IS MAKING AN IMMORTAL FAMILY...our design is pattered after the Heavenly...
in him was life,and that life was the light.....the children of the light.... they are like the angels..they are God's children
In the beginning was the 'word".....let us make man in our image...but do not forget the previous 6 days of creation...
All things are created by him and for Him[God].. the FATHER IS GREATER THAN I...the Father and I are 'one'
1 Cor 15;26 the last enemy to be destroyed is death,for he has put everything under his feet.....
NOW........WHEN IT SAYS THAT EVERYTHING HAS BEEN PUT UNDER HIM;IT IS CLEAR THAT THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE GOD HIMSELF[note this distinction]
WHO PUT EVERYTHING UNDER CHRIST WHEN HE HAS DONE THIS....THEN THE SON HIMSELF WILL BE MADE SUBJECT TO HIM WHO PUT
EVERYTHING UNDER HIM........SO THAT GOD MAY BE ALL IN ALL
It pleased the Father to give All things to His Son.
The Son rules the universe. But one day the Father will commence rulership and the Son will be subject to His Father.
1 Corinthians 15:28
And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
We are patterned after the heavenly by being made into the image of His only begotten Son.
3Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his
dear Sonthat we cry within ourselves a spirit of
adoption, Abba Father.
EXODUS 4;22
THEN SAY TO PHAROAH,"THIS IS WHAT THE LORD SAYS; ISRAEL IS MY FIRSTBORN SON[including the twelve patr{iarchs}"
AND I TOLD YOU LET MY SON GO,SO HE MAY WORSHIP ME" BUT YOU REFUSED TO LET HIM GO,SO I WILL KILL YOUR FIRSTBORN SON"
Could Israel be the first born human patterned after the Son?
Or perhaps the first born of the seed of Abraham, the seed of promise.
Isaac-Jacob/ISRAEL....12 sons...12 tribes..twelve pearls,twelve foundations,twelve apostle's christ dwelt in..and were wittness of HIM
Isaac=son of the free woman-
Abraham as FATHER[symbol of GOD/Father of sands of sea and stars of heaven] ISAAC =SON OF FREE WOMAN..BEGETS_JACOB/ISRAEL 12 sons
Isaac was a 'word of promise/seed] given to Sarah[free woman] when the word was given to her,she laughed
Gen 21;6 Sarah said,"GOD HAS PREPARED LAUGHTER FOR ME"....Abraham tested..son as sacrifice...remarkable similarity
when I think of a son of laughter....I think of the twinkling of the eye
Pr 23;15,16 My son,if your heart is wise,then my heart will be glad,my inmost being will rejoice,when your lips speak what is right
IMO The Father of lights/spirits is the genative, original, spirit - Over all and Before all -Who alone dwells in unapproachable light
1 Tim 6:15
God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.
The fulness of the deity dwells in Jesus because "it pleased the Father to make all the fulness dwell in Him"
Whether as a trinity or as presiding over a council of lesser eloyhim or as Father and Son united in one spirit(the holy twoity) it really doesnt matter too much to me. I don't think it can be seen clearly on this side of the veil, but I think there is one generative Father of all - For from Him and through Him and too Him are all things-Includng Jesus the Messiah.......... "Let there be light" and the light shines in the darkness and the darkness cannot overcome it.
It was Jesus Christ who spoke "Let there be light."
Joh 1:18 God no one hath ever seen; the only begotten Son, who is on the bosom of the Father--he did declare.
declared to consider out (aloud), that is, rehearse, unfold: - declare, tell.
Joh 5:37 `And the Father who sent me Himself hath testified concerning me; ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor His appearance have ye seen;
Col 1:17 and He is before all, and all has its cohesion in Him."
Ah, perhaps so, but we do see through a glass darkly, don't we? I hesitate to boast assured knowledge about things so well cloaked in mystery.
For HE(the Father) HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS(Jesus) FEET. But when He says, "All things are put in subjection," it is evident(manifest/obvious) that He(the Father) is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him(Jesus). When all things are subjected to Him(Jesus), then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One(the Father) who subjected all things to Him(Jesus), so that God (the Father)may be all in all.
(1Co 15:27-28)
Did the Word speak itself into existence or did the Father speak the Word(Logos-expressed/manifest thought) into existence? Was the Word with God WITHIN God? Like a seed hanging on a tree maybe? Or like an egg within a womb? Was the Word before God? Was the Son before the Father? If God is light, was there light before God said, "Let there be light"? Was that spoken light a subset within the allness of God? Certainly God was Light before the Word spoke "Let there be light" into the chaos over which the Spirit brooded. Does "the beginning" mean at the first manifestation of creation or does it mean before time when there was only eternity? "Let there be light" established the first day, but it was not the first light.
I love a good mystery :o)
Quote from: eaglesway on August 06, 2011, 07:37:31 AM
Did the Word speak itself into existence or did the Father speak the Word(Logos-expressed/manifest thought) into existence? Was the Word with God WITHIN God? Like a seed hanging on a tree maybe? Or like an egg within a womb? Was the Word before God? Was the Son before the Father? If God is light, was there light before God said, "Let there be light"? Was that spoken light a subset within the allness of God? Certainly God was Light before the Word spoke "Let there be light" into the chaos over which the Spirit brooded. Does "the beginning" mean at the first manifestation of creation or does it mean before time when there was only eternity? "Let there be light" established the first day, but it was not the first light.
I love a good mystery :o)
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and
the Word was with God, and the Word was God;
God is but a title of a deity. Joh 8:58 Jesus said to them, `Verily, verily, I say to you,
Before Abraham's coming--I am;' Joh 8:12 Again, therefore, Jesus spake to them, saying, `
I am the light of the world;
Word..logos
something said (including the thought); by implication a topic (subject of discourse), also reasoning (the mental faculty) or motive; by extension a computation; specifically
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was
the WordGen 1:1 In the
beginning...rê'shı̂yth the first, in place, time, order or rank (specifically a firstfruit): -
beginning, chief (-est), first (-fruits, part, time),
principal thing.1Co 15:20 (Yet now Christ has been roused from among the dead,
the Firstfruit of those who are reposing."
Amen.....All glimpses of what was in the beginning, wonderful beautiful words. One day we will see what is before the beginning, from a place where time no longer factors into the equation. Our lines of interpretation weave in and around and near the truth I am sure, because it is the Fathers pleasure to give us the kingdom, but as Paul said, If any man thinks he knows anything, he knows not yet as he ought to know....... For now we know in part, then we shall kno as we are known. I can't wait! :o)
John 16:27
For the Father himself loves you, because you have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
1 Corinthians 8:1-3
Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. And if any man thinks that he knows any thing, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know. But if any man loves God, the same is known of him.
Amen.
Only those that love God can know the love of God.
You are the One Who married Me.
"God is but a title of a deity"
IMO This is a semantical statement. In some places elohym has nothing to do with deity at all, meaning simply "mighty ones". It is in the context of the section of scripture that the meaning of an particular usage becomes clear. While many students and teachers make many confident assertions resulting from their take on the implications of things such as the use of plural form of Elohym used in Genesis, it could mean any of the following....
It could mean, Father Son and Holy Ghost and the assemblage of angels or watchers or other "mighty ones" who were created or in existence before the "foundation" of the kosmos.
It could be the Father Son and Holy Ghost(if you are trinitarian)
It could be the Father and the Son (if you are a binitarian)
It could be the Father and the aforemention assemblage of mornings stars and/or mighty ones (if you are a biblical unitarian)
It could be Jesus and the stars of the morning
Etc., Etc.,
I believe YHWH has left it shrouded in mystery for a reason. What a beautiful surprise of glory and understanding we we will awaken to! I don't claim to have any authoritative understanding. I do think that it is a great conversation and subject for study when taken in the context of the entire written voice, with respect, love, a sense of awe and humility. I have no respect, or use..... for the dogma of any brand of orthodoxy. But that's just me :o) What would I convince anyone of? Only that
1) God is love and that evryone who loves knows God and is known by God
2) Jesus, as the Only Begotten son, is the radiance of the Fathers glory and the living icon of His(YHWH) divine nature
3) That Jesus lives and is making intercession for all, especially those of the household of faith.
4) When time is fulfilled God will be All in All, having reconciled all things to Himself by the blood of the cross of His son Jesus, and All will be One in His glory
Beloved, we know not yet, what we shall be, but this we kno- when He appears we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is
Ye Watchers and Ye Holy Ones
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxKA6iydgbw
"God is but a title of a deity"
Who does that quote belong to, eaglesway?
Acts4
10Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
11This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Look at New Jerusalem...the HOLY CITY.......they need no light of sun or moon cause God and the Lamb are it's light. A WHOLE CITY FULL OF SPIRITUAL CHILDREN
with the Father and son THE LORD GOD ALMIGHTY AND THE LAMB ARE IT'S TEMPLE
BUILT ON 12 FOUNDATIONS..12 ANGELS AT THE GATES...ON THE GATES WERE WRITTEN THE 12 TRIBES OF ISRAEL... Now seems to me
the loyal angels were very involved in the plan of salvation for all Israel....From the commander of the Lord's army who spoke with Joshua...
to Gabriel who announced birth of John the Baptist and Jesus Christ. Jesus gave the Holy spirit as a 'comforter' 'I shall not leave you as orphans"
Now in this great big spiritual city..do you think that maybe they might have names?WILL YOU ALLOW THOSE ANGELS AT THE GATES[12]?
Rev 22; THEN THE ANGEL SHOWED ME THE RIVER OF THE WATER OF LIFE
THEN HE TOLD ME[the angel] DO NOT SEAL UP THE WORDS OF THE PROPHECY OF THIS BOOK,BECAUSE THE TIME IS NEAR
Are you going to tell the angels at the gates to drop dead? I would be sure I had already entered that city before I would make such a comment
[no really I wouldn't make it/good way to get thrown out}
ALL IN ALL MEANS JUST THAT...they are your family...Just as they are JESUS"s [whomever does the will of my Father is my Mother,sister,brother]
Did Peter tell the angels that loosed him from prison..I don't know you!
Beleive me or not....you will find out that what I speak is truth. I do not fault you for caution
the SON OF MAN IS DUE..and THE REVEALING OF THE SONS OF GOD....AND WHAT IF YOU SHOULD SEE THE ANGELS OF GOD DESCENDING
AND ASCENDING ON THE SON OF MAN John 1;51
Quote from: Beloved Servant on August 06, 2011, 08:58:04 PM
"God is but a title of a deity"
Who does that quote belong to, eaglesway?
Was in Micahs post a few steps earlier
merci beaucoup
de rien
Who TT ?
Are you absolutely sure that I don't know Jesus Christ..the 'word of God come in flesh'? Test the spirits,TT
Sheila,
Do you know this to be true?
Has the Lord expressed His disappointment with you?
If I have read your post incorrectly then please forgive me. The post reminded me of Jehovas witnesses type doctrine, except substitute holy spirit with Son.
From what I have read in scripture knowing the Son is the most important aspect of Christian faith, as no man goes to the Father except through Jesus.
God's disappointment with Sheila is another interesting point to note from your post.
Sheila, that must be bone-crushing prophecy from thinktank.
Not a prophecy just an observation. If correct then sheila will be even more blessed, hopefully.
No, He loves me,He loves all of us. I am here because I must testify....He has prepared a place for you...the very Holy city..New Jerusalem...and it is of
this city the things I am declaring. We are going home soon......When the Son of Man comes in his glory,and all the angels with Him,He will sit
on HIS THRONE IN HEAVENLY GLORY. All the nations will be gathered before Him,and He will seperate the people one from another,as the shepherd
seperates the sheep from the goats[wheat/chaff,wheat tares] in each individual one. The King will say to those on His right......'COME,YOU WHO
AR BLESSED BY MY FATHER......TAKE YOUR INHERITANCE PREPARED FOR YOU SINCE THE CREATION OF THE WORLD" That inheritance is the HOLY CITY
NEW JERUSALEM. PREPARED AND BUILT NOT BY HUMAN HANDS[IT IS TIME]
AND IF ANYONE TAKES WORDS AWAY FROM THIS BOOK OF PROPHECY,GOD WILL TAKE AWAY FROM HIM HIS SHARE IN THE TREE OF LIFE,AND IN
THE HOLY CITY WHICH ARE DESCRIBED IN THIS BOOK
THE SPIRIT AND THE BRIDE SAY,'COME! AND LET HIM WHO HEARS SAY,COME! WHOEVER IS THIRSTY LET HIM COME,AND WHOEVER WISHES,LET HIM TAKE THE
FREE GIFT OF THE WATER OF LIFE
I LOVE JESUS CHRIST..HE IS MY SAVIOUR..I LOVE YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE HIS...I KNOW HIM,AND AM KNOWN OF HIM..HE DOES NOT DENY ME IN
FRONT OF HIS ANGELS
I,JESUS HAVE SENT MY ANGEL TO GIVE YOU THIS TESTIMONY FOR THE CHURCHES[Rev 22;16]
HE WHO TESTIFIES TO THESE THINGS SAYS,'YES,I AM COMING SOON"
Have I not always encouraged you to obey HIM and follow the Holy spirit?
AND NO< I HONOUR OUR FATHER,AND HIS SON..AND THEY ARE NOT DISAPPOINTED IN ME...IT IS NOT GOD'S DISAPPOINTMENT IN ME,THAT
YOU SPEAK OF,BUT OF YOUR DISAPPOINTMENT .....THE DISCIPLES WERE HOPING FOR SOMETHIN ELSE IN THEIR DAY ALSO...IN REGARDS
TO THE KINGDOM....many miscoceptions as to what the fulfilling of these things will be...as with the disciples...
No, we will not receive glorious new bodies to prance around on earth with..new wine is put in new wineskins
Yes your words have blessed me many times but that's why I was disappointed when I read your post, the post deGoded my God and saviour Jesus Christ and I felt cheated somewhat.
Quote from: thinktank on August 07, 2011, 12:35:31 AM
Not a prophecy just an observation. If correct then sheila will be even more blessed, hopefully.
Sheila will be more blessed if you're correct that God is disappointed with her?
Quote from: Beloved Servant on August 07, 2011, 12:58:47 AM
Quote from: thinktank on August 07, 2011, 12:35:31 AM
Not a prophecy just an observation. If correct then sheila will be even more blessed, hopefully.
Sheila will be more blessed if you're correct that God is disappointed with her?
.
The premise being if I was correct, then she would pursue and inquire of the one they call Jesus. The scriptures show that to know the Father fully one must know the Son. Isn't that what the Christian faith is about?
And yes to call Jesus anything less than God would bring disappointment to Him.
Quote from: thinktank on August 07, 2011, 12:55:23 AM
Yes your words have blessed me many times but that's why I was disappointed when I read your post, the post deGoded my God and saviour Jesus Christ and I felt cheated somewhat.
If you please, would you give me the post number to Sheila's "deGoded" reference of Christ.
Thanks!
JOHN 15;26 When the Counselor comes,whom I WILL SEND TO YOU FROM THE FATHER, THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH,WHO GOES OUT FROM
THE FATHER, he will testify about me. AND YOU ALSO MUST TESTIFY,FOR YOU HAVE BEEN WITH ME FROM THE BEGINNING
I have much more to say to you,more than you can now bear. BUT WHEN HE, the SPIRIT of truth,comes, he WILL GUIDE YOU INTO ALL TRUTH
He will not speak on his own,he will speak only what he hears,AND HE WILL TELL YOU WHAT IS YET TO COME.[NEW JERUSALEM]
HE WILL BRING GLORY TO ME BY TAKING FROM WHAT IS MINE[ALL] AND MAKING IT KNOWN TO YOU.ALL THAT BELONGS TO THE FATHER IS MINE,THAT IS WHY
I SAID THE SPIRIT WILL TAKE FROM WHAT IS MINE AND MAKE IT KNOWN TO YOU
Quote from: sheila on August 07, 2011, 01:32:45 AM
AND YOU ALSO MUST TESTIFY, FOR YOU HAVE BEEN WITH ME FROM THE BEGINNING
Truth be told.
Lord have Mercy.
Does the Parakletos [Comforter] have a name?
Don't all names in Scripture define a nature?
The Parakletos is another nature of Christ.
Jesus: God saves us.
Parakletos: God comforts us.
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor,
Mighty God,
Everlasting Father,
Prince of Peace.
He is called the Spirit of truth [pneuma alētheia] and the Spirit of Christ [pneuma Christos].
Pravuil
I am heading out the door...Late!! I would like to start a post about the book of Enoch...why/why not in the accepted cannons etc should it be etc.
some of these things I'm speaking of..are declared In Enoch...and his prophecies.
love you all
The coming of the Paraclete implies an unbroken continuity of the coming of Jesus.
He came; He continued to come; He comes; He continues to come; He will come; and He will continue to come!
The only point is that the form of coming has changed, the personal coming being replaced by the pneumatic (spiritual).
Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
-- Romans 7:4
Dead to the law; married to Christ. Amen.
Paul fits it neatly in one sentence.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on August 07, 2011, 04:47:52 AM
Dead to the law; married to Christ. Amen.
Paul fits it neatly in one sentence.
Yes and married to another means married to heteros--a different type--in our case, married to the
Spirit of Christ.
"another"G2087
ἕτερος
heteroshet'-er-os
Of uncertain affinity; (an-, the)
other or different: - altered, else, next (day), one, (an-) other, some, strange.
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
--Rom 8
Quote from: Beloved Servant on August 07, 2011, 04:28:14 AM
The coming of the Paraclete implies an unbroken continuity of the coming of Jesus.
He came; He continued to come; He comes; He continues to come; He will come; and He will continue to come!
The only point is that the form of coming has changed, the personal coming being replaced by the pneumatic (spiritual).
Amen :thumbsup:
Praise God, Micah. He is so good to us.
Quote from: Molly on August 07, 2011, 04:55:28 AM
Quote from: Beloved Servant on August 07, 2011, 04:47:52 AM
Dead to the law; married to Christ. Amen.
Paul fits it neatly in one sentence.
Yes and married to another means married to heteros--a different type--in our case, married to the Spirit of Christ.
"another"
G2087
ἕτερος
heteros
het'-er-os
Of uncertain affinity; (an-, the) other or different: - altered, else, next (day), one, (an-) other, some, strange.
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
--Rom 8
Yes, for some, I suppose that needs to be said.
Perhaps there are those that think they will be marrying the one man Jesus in the flesh.
Even carnal knowledge, though, couldn't process that idea.
I believe it is personal and spiritual.... we eagerly await our adoption as sons, even the redemption of our bodies- even as Jesus was declared the Son of God by the resurrection of the dead..... "for you see a spirit has not flesh and bone as I do" was Jesus' own words after His resurrection, as well as "do not touch me yet for I have not yet been glorified." He ate fish and walked through walls LOL. It does not trouble me that someone does not understand this. It does trouble me that someone belittles another's understanding as if it were ridiculous, when there is scriptural support for it, as if anyone has the full understanding. I don't believe we are going to "prance around on the earth" in glorified bodies. I believe we are going to be priests of God and begin in earnest the "setting free of the entire creation into the glorious liberty of the sons of God" and the "restitution of all things".
I find it almost hilarious that in some areas some of us agree strongly - then on other things we disagree and agree with the person we formerly disagreed strongly with(and if you can figure that out you are a candidate for a merit raise ;o)
But I know all of you are my fellow living stones, in this wide house where every vessel will be purged!
Quote from: eaglesway on August 07, 2011, 07:12:03 AM
I believe we are going to be priests of God and begin in earnest the "setting free of the entire creation into the glorious liberty of the sons of God" and the "restitution of all things".
That's when the battle begins.
"But I know all of you are my fellow living stones, in this wide house where every vessel will be purged!" Eaglesway
Amen! Glory glory GLORY!
I dont know about the walking through walls, that is our earthy understanding, but Jesus did not have to walk through walls, HE APPEARS, in our midst and He APPEARS in those who have been healed of our blindness. I with all my reasoning understand that as long as we attempt to understand spirit with and in our earthy natural thinking, we are lost. It means to understand that when we repent we have a change of mind...Mind G3563 nous the intellect, that is, mind (divine or human; in thought, feeling, or will); by implication meaning: - mind, understanding.
Repent G3340 metanoeō to think differently or afterwards, that is, reconsider (morally to feel compunction): - repent.
Isa 55:8 For not My thoughts are your thoughts, Nor your ways My ways, --an affirmation of Jehovah,
This is the goal that those with ears to hear must become in tuned to, His thoughts are those that nullify all those thoughts that we have in this earthy realm.
Heb 3:15 seeing that the warning still comes to us, "TO-DAY, IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE, DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS AS YOUR FOREFATHERS DID IN THE TIME OF THE PROVOCATION (irritation G3894)."
Joh 17:16 `Of the world they are not, as I of the world am not;
Should those who hear and believe To Day, need get our thoughts and thinking [our mind] out of the world(kosmos) or wilderness and Babylon.............. and believe I AM in spirit and truth.
This is spirit.....Joh 20:26 And after eight days, again were his disciples within, and Thomas with them; Jesus cometh, the doors having been shut, and he stood in the midst, and said, `Peace to you!'
Peace to you too, Micah.
I am sure whatever Jesus did when He disappeared from the midst of them was more sophisticated than walking through walls- but I have this image of Him disappearing, and a piece of fish falling onto the plate.....or walking through the wall and lthe piece of fish from His hand sticking to the inside of the wall as He passes through.
I know...... pray for me :laughing7:
They gave Him broiled fish,
(man through the fire is God's savor)
and, taking it, He ate before them.
to those in the wilderness camp.....Joshua 7;20 when I saw in the plunder a beautiful robe from Babylonia,two hundered shekels of silver
and a wedge of gold weighing fifty shekels,I coveted them and took them. THEY ARE HIDDEN IN THE GROUND INSIDE MY TENT...
then Joshua,togather with all of Israel,tookAchan and all that he had.....to the valley of ACHOR[time of Jacob's trouble]
Now this is a real concern for the called out ones....starting out in spirit..are you to be perfected in flesh?
Luke 20;46 Beware of the teachers of the law,they like to walk around in flowing robes and love to be greeted in the marketplaces,
and have the most important seats in the synagogue's[beware gog's crowd,children] and the places of honour at the banquets[Lamb's marriage supper]
This is a real spiritual danger....those that are changed are last...the dead in Christ are already preceded them[grape harvest] who are you going to preach to?
you would be preaching to the choir....but you will join the choir in singing His praises eternally.
re;broilde fish....your break fast is ready for you.......to always dwell with the Lord
Alright,this is an attempt to restore the 'breach' in misunderstandings. I beleive what started it all was my saying Jesus was an archangel in heaven....
and that the twelve archangels had their exercize in good/evil up there. This was questioned,due to the 'word' was with God..and through the son was all creation made
I 'countered' that with a post about the 'word' and centered on the 'power' of it..and not so much the 'son' aspect of it.
now, the 'word' was with God in the beginning...the power of that 'word' is incorruptible life. Now, through the son was all things created..First the heavens,then
the earth [both visible and invisible]
and the word come in the form of an archangel there[firstborn son of heaven/only begotton]...as it come in the form of man here[firstborn of dead]
Now, I did not fully appreciate the understanding of "by the son,of whom was all things created" and focused on the word and power..and could not see at that time
how with the reconciling of both 'veiws' a fuller understanding comes forth. When we go on the attack of something that someone puts forth....
then the one feeling 'attacked' feels he must defend.. communication breaks down. we must not devour one another[flesh] but the 'word of God'
This refining is too important to let anything get in the way of it.
Now, I apoligize for the 'prancing' comment...I am sure it offended...but I became offended also when the cry 'anethema' rang out so, I think we can safely say
more than one of us felt a little deGoded by what went on
Now, you can see through the scriptures the battle with satan and war in heaven[good evil exercize]..and even Michael saying the LORD rebuke you...and him[satan]
being cast out and not prevailing against Michael and his angels/AND YOU CAN KNOW THAT THE FIRSTBORN SON/ONLY BEGOTTON HAD EVERYTHING TO DO WITH IT
an olive branch to you all..with a dove perched on it :bigGrin:
Dan 11;35
when they fall they will receive a little help......