We will be changed

[sheila]

   check out O' Nebucchadnezer...when 7 times passed over him..and he had the mind of a beast...his fingernails grew..feathers etc....

    til  the dew of heaven came..and his sanity and kingdom was restored to him

[Beloved Servant]

Even being called a sentient animal is an insult to the masterpiece of God's creation.

I in them, and Thou in Me, that They may be made perfect in One... .

We are His Children.

[WhiteWings]

That verse is neutral. Creature. Could be man or animal.

ψυχή
psuchē
Thayer Definition:
1) breath
1a) the breath of life
1a1) the vital force which animates the body and shows itself in breathing
1a1a) of animals
1a1b) of men
1b) life
1c) that in which there is life
1c1) a living being, a living soul
2) the soul
2a) the seat of the feelings, desires, affections, aversions (our heart, soul etc.)
2b) the (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life
2c) the soul as an essence which differs from the body and is not dissolved by death (distinguished from other parts of the body)

I like this.

2b) the (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life.

I am getting annoyed at being called an 'animal.' :mshock:

Want a cookie Molly doggie :winkgrin:
That's not what I wrote in this thread.... I told you that before but somehow it seems you never read the answer!?
IMO the key is in G5594/G4154/H5315/H5397

[even if I do look like my dog.]

Dogs are loyal to their master....

[Nathan]

I agree with Sheila . . .the seed was sown into flesh.  I think Paul is basically saying "man" manifested first as a physical being . . .to me, it's not saying I never existed before entering into this realm of the flesh, it's merely saying I wasn't a fully human being "until" I manfested in the flesh. 

That is not an easy passage to just embrace literally and move on, it takes some time to let it absorb spiritually so that God can reveal to us what's being said.  Whoever the author was that was debunking Eby was actually contradicting the passage that says when you die, your body goes back to the ground from where it came from and . . .say it with me cuz I know you all know it . .. I've seen it posted on here more than once . . .your spirit goes . .where?  BACK to God WHO SENT IT.  Which indicates that it did exist "before" it entered into these bodies of flesh. 

It's a tough one to get our minds to see because our minds can't understand just what the spiritual realm consists of.  We try to come up with "images" of what we "think" it is, but there's just no original template from which we can draw from. 

But for me . . ."I" am not fully "me" unless the three main componants are in place . . .two actually, but when the two come together they "become" three . . (where two or more are gathered together . . .hmmm . .. )  But when my SPIRIT (one) enters into my BODY (two) my SOUL manifests that bond.  It's at that point I am "me"  When I die and my spirit leaves the flesh, my spirit still exists, but "I" am not completely "me" anymore until when all things are complete and we all return to our bodies that are transformed, glorified in order for us to become completely us again. 

that's how I see it today anyway . .. tomorrow could bring a whole new box of cookies to munch on.

So the "complete" me manifests through the first Adam first, and then is transformed into the last Adam through Grace by faith.

Then am I to suspect that man/adam[ruddy, that is, a human being] of Gen. 2:7 was NOT the first man adam
but that there was a [man/adam [ruddy, that is, a human being] of 1Cor.15:45 was before the first man/adam but that man/adam[ruddy, that is, a human being] was a breath/spirit to start out with and  Paul got it wrong?


1Co 15:45  In the same way also it is written, "THE FIRST MAN ADAM BECAME A LIVING ANIMAL"; the last Adam is a life-giving Spirit.

Yes Micah . . .that was my intention all along . . .to imply Paul got it wrong.  and I have no idea what you're talking about . . .with all your brackets and "b's" throwing in the slashes and then accusing me of denouncing Paul . . .makes no sense to me at all.

Adam was the first man of flesh . . .God breathed in his flesh and he BECAME something else . . .still a man of flesh, but now, he's a living soul.  Still the first man . . .but now he's a living being . . .complete.   He then "became" a fallen man . . .still being a spirit within a body as evidenced by manifesting through a soul.  But he was still in an fallen state.  Christ was not the literal Adam, he was the last Adam, the link between the fallen Adam and God.  We were born in the first Adam, resurrected by and into the last Adam . . .I don't know how else to say it.

[Molly]

Want a cookie Molly doggie

grrrrrr  [low and ominous growl]

[micah7:9]

 "I like this.

2b) the (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life.


I am getting annoyed at being called an 'animal.' :mshock:

[even if I do look like my dog.]" (Molly)

Molly you picked that one cause it makes you happy.         And you must really be upset with this guy
Ecc 3:18  I said in my heart, It is because of the sons of men, that God may prove them, and that they may see that they themselves are but as beasts.
Ecc 3:19  For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; and man hath no preeminence above the beasts: for all is vanity.
But then again we [mankind] have matured so much farther from the " for all is vanity."  Right!

[sheila]

    Ecc 3;11

     He has made everything beautiful in it's time.HE HAS ALSO SET ETERNITY IN THE HEARTS OF MEN,Yet, they can not fathom what

   GOD HAS DONE FROM BEGINNING TO END


     WHO KNOWS IF THE SPIRIT OF MAN RISES UPWARD? AND IF THE SPIRIT OF THE ANIMAL GOES DOWN INTO THE EARTH?[evidently not Solomon/nor

   His wisdom/but look a greater than Solomon knows...]..   after this I looked,and there before me was a door standing open in heaven..

   and the voice I had first heard speaking to me like atrumpet said 'COME UP HERE AND I WILL SHOW YOU WHAT MUST TAKE PLACE AFTER THIS...

    ALL AT ONCE,I WAS IN THE SPIRIT   Rev 11;11  But after the three and half days a breath of life  from GOD entered them and they stood on their feet

  ...v 17  Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them'COME UP HERE"...the spirit and the bride say,COME

[micah7:9]

Just what is it that you are proclaiming? I am happy in the form the Lord God brought me forth in. I believe and understand that God is the Capital one(in charge or control) as far as this kosmos is concerned. He has done, is doing, and will continue to do whatever He desires or wants.

Should Ecc. 3:18 & 19 offend, it is does not this vessel. I know that at this stage in my growth I carry baggage, but KNOWING I am a new creature takes the sting out of it you know(sticks and stones....)
For 2Co 5:17  so that if any one is in Christ-- he is a new creature; the old things did pass away, lo, become new have the all things.
Gal 6:15  for in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation;

[sheila]

   THIS CHILD IS DESTINED TO CAUSE THE FALLING AND RISING OF MANY IN ISRAEL.....AND TO BE A SIGN THAT IS SPOKEN AGAINST

   SO THAT THE THOUGHTS OF MANY HEARTS WILL BE REVEALED

     Philipians 3;14   I press on toward the goal to win the prize  for which God has called me heavenward in CHRIST JESUS

    ALL OF US,WHO ARE MATURE,SHOULD TAKE SUCH A VEIW OF THINGS.  And if on some point you think differently,

   that,too,God will make clear to you.Only let us live up to what we have already attained....take note of those who live according to the pattern

   we gave you........v 20 But our citizenship is in heaven........

[micah7:9]

   check out O' Nebucchadnezer...when 7 times passed over him..and he had the mind of a beast...his fingernails grew..feathers etc....

    til  the dew of heaven came..and his sanity and kingdom was restored to him

Wasnt  The Lord God behind that transforming?

[micah7:9]

   THIS CHILD IS DESTINED TO CAUSE THE FALLING AND RISING OF MANY IN ISRAEL.....AND TO BE A SIGN THAT IS SPOKEN AGAINST

   SO THAT THE THOUGHTS OF MANY HEARTS WILL BE REVEALED

     Philipians 3;14   I press on toward the goal to win the prize  for which God has called me heavenward in CHRIST JESUS

    ALL OF US,WHO ARE MATURE,SHOULD TAKE SUCH A VEIW OF THINGS.  And if on some point you think differently,

   that,too,God will make clear to you.Only let us live up to what we have already attained....take note of those who live according to the pattern

   we gave you........v 20 But our citizenship is in heaven........

I know and am aware of the truth that OUR CITIZENSHIP IS A PLACE HIGHER UP!  Col 3:10  and having put on the new, which is renewed in regard to knowledge, after the image of Him who did create him;

[Molly]

   THIS CHILD IS DESTINED TO CAUSE THE FALLING AND RISING OF MANY IN ISRAEL.....AND TO BE A SIGN THAT IS SPOKEN AGAINST

   SO THAT THE THOUGHTS OF MANY HEARTS WILL BE REVEALED

     Philipians 3;14   I press on toward the goal to win the prize  for which God has called me heavenward in CHRIST JESUS

    ALL OF US,WHO ARE MATURE,SHOULD TAKE SUCH A VEIW OF THINGS.  And if on some point you think differently,

   that,too,God will make clear to you.Only let us live up to what we have already attained....take note of those who live according to the pattern

   we gave you........v 20 But our citizenship is in heaven........

Isa 60:14 and they shall call you The City of the LORD, Zion of the Holy One of Israel



Psalm 87
1His foundation is in the holy mountains.

2The LORD loveth the gates of Zion more than all the dwellings of Jacob.

3Glorious things are spoken of thee, O city of God. Selah.

4I will make mention of Rahab and Babylon to them that know me: behold Philistia, and Tyre, with Ethiopia; this man was born there.

5And of Zion it shall be said, This and that man was born in her: and the highest himself shall establish her.

6The LORD shall count, when he writeth up the people, that this man was born there. Selah.

7As well the singers as the players on instruments shall be there: all my springs are in thee.



Jesus replied to him, "Truly, I tell you with certainty, unless a person is born from above he cannot see the kingdom of God."


--John 3:3

[micah7:9]

"Yes Micah . . .that was my intention all along . . .to imply Paul got it wrong.  and I have no idea what you're talking about . . .with all your brackets and "b's" throwing in the slashes and then accusing me of denouncing Paul . . .makes no sense to me at all." Nathan

"The first man Adam became a living creature,' the last Adam is for a life-giving spirit," if the first adam became a breathing creature, then who is the the first adam that was first a spirit. How many firsts are there?

And you say that Paul did not get it wrong, then who was the first adam? Was he a breathing creature or a spirit? I hope that makes it clearer.

"
Adam was the first man of flesh . . .God breathed in his flesh and he BECAME something else " (nathan) yeah he became a breathing creature.
"He then "became" a fallen man . . .still being a spirit within a body as evidenced by manifesting through a soul.  But he was still in an fallen state. " (nathan)
First, I do not accept the teaching that man "fell."   "".still being a spirit within a body as evidenced by manifesting through a soul""  Now that I do not understand. Im sorry.

[Molly]

"I like this.

2b) the (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life.


I am getting annoyed at being called an 'animal.' :mshock:

[even if I do look like my dog.]" (Molly)

Molly you picked that one cause it makes you happy.         And you must really be upset with this guy
Ecc 3:18  I said in my heart, It is because of the sons of men, that God may prove them, and that they may see that they themselves are but as beasts.
Ecc 3:19  For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; and man hath no preeminence above the beasts: for all is vanity.
But then again we [mankind] have matured so much farther from the " for all is vanity."  Right!

http://pets.webshots.com/photo/1245736457001272142xrDwPt

[micah7:9]

"I like this.

2b) the (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life.


I am getting annoyed at being called an 'animal.' :mshock:

[even if I do look like my dog.]" (Molly)

Molly you picked that one cause it makes you happy.         And you must really be upset with this guy
Ecc 3:18  I said in my heart, It is because of the sons of men, that God may prove them, and that they may see that they themselves are but as beasts.
Ecc 3:19  For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; and man hath no preeminence above the beasts: for all is vanity.
But then again we [mankind] have matured so much farther from the " for all is vanity."  Right!

http://pets.webshots.com/photo/1245736457001272142xrDwPt

Your words please. Sites and youtube I have a problem with. thank you

[WhiteWings]

Ecc 3:18  I said in my heart, It is because of the sons of men, that God may prove them, and that they may see that they themselves are but as beasts.
Ecc 3:19  For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; and man hath no preeminence above the beasts: for all is vanity.
But then again we [mankind] have matured so much farther from the " for all is vanity."  Right!

Ok, I'm not defending Molly's position because I disagree with her. That said your verse doesn't prove much.

Does a lion have preeminence above a tiger? Whatever the answer; they still are beasts.
Same can be said about your verses. Not having preeminence doesn't mean it's the same.
For example I believe in relationships with women (marriage) based on equality.
I'm not looking for preeminence over a woman. That view makes me equal to a woman. But it doesn't make me A woman. Understand what I mean?
Jesus had preeminence over the 12. That doesn't mean the 12 were just animals.
:2c:

[jabcat]

Doing a little research re: the lowered thread, and ran across the following.  I believe it relates to Molly's post about a difference between humans and animals;

unless I'm oversimplifying, this verse indicates (at least) 2 things;

man and beast both have spirits,
but,
those spirits go to different places upon death.

Who knoweth the spirit
of man that goeth upward,
and the spirit of the beast
that goeth downward to the
earth?  Ecc. 3:21

[micah7:9]

Ecc 3:19  For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; and man hath no preeminence above the beasts: for all is vanity.

Ecc 3:20 All are going to one place; All have come from the soil, and all return to the soil."

Ecc 3:21 Who is knowing about the spirit of the sons of humanity, Whether it is ascending above, And the spirit of the beast, whether it is descending below to the earth?

Ecc 3:18  I said in my heart, It is because of the sons of men, that God may prove them, and that they may see that they themselves are but as beasts.

[WhiteWings]

James, I think there are translation issues with the word soul and spirit. So I'll try to explain my view without those words.

God created lifeless objects out of sand. He created statues that looked like a whale, a bird and a man. The where all dead.
Then He added something to all those statues that gave them live. That something was exactly the same for whale, bird and man. So upto this point we have 3 creatures that look differently but are made of exactly the same materials and got added exactly the same extra that gave life.
Then God gave the human form something extra that He did not give to the others. That something is the distinction between man and beast. I do not know if that something extra was added a split second after He animated the statues or that it was added long after that.

So my summary.
All living creatures share dust/flesh and the force that animates them. Man recieved a extra 'something'.
Man and animal are both pots. God put 1 thing in the animal pots. God put 2 things in the human pots.

That 2nd thing is heavily veiled/darkened. Often it's almost asleep. I think that's why there are verses that compare man to a beast. Their origin is the same and what seperates them is often asleep.
:2c:

[jabcat]

James, I think there are translation issues with the word soul and spirit. So I'll try to explain my view without those words.

God created lifeless objects out of sand. He created statues that looked like a whale, a bird and a man. The where all dead.
Then He added something to all those statues that gave them live. That something was exactly the same for whale, bird and man. So upto this point we have 3 creatures that look differently but are made of exactly the same materials and got added exactly the same extra that gave life.
Then God gave the human form something extra that He did not give to the others. That something is the distinction between man and beast. I do not know if that something extra was added a split second after He animated the statues or that it was added long after that.

So my summary.
All living creatures share dust/flesh and the force that animates them. Man recieved a extra 'something'.
Man and animal are both pots. God put 1 thing in the animal pots. God put 2 things in the human pots.

That 2nd thing is heavily veiled/darkened. Often it's almost asleep. I think that's why there are verses that compare man to a beast. Their origin is the same and what seperates them is often asleep.
:2c:

Very good, thanks.

[micah7:9]

James, I think there are translation issues with the word soul and spirit. So I'll try to explain my view without those words.

God created lifeless objects out of sand. He created statues that looked like a whale, a bird and a man. The where all dead.
Then He added something to all those statues that gave them live. That something was exactly the same for whale, bird and man. So upto this point we have 3 creatures that look differently but are made of exactly the same materials and got added exactly the same extra that gave life.
Then God gave the human form something extra that He did not give to the others. That something is the distinction between man and beast. I do not know if that something extra was added a split second after He animated the statues or that it was added long after that.

So my summary.
All living creatures share dust/flesh and the force that animates them. Man recieved a extra 'something'.
Man and animal are both pots. God put 1 thing in the animal pots. God put 2 things in the human pots.

That 2nd thing is heavily veiled/darkened. Often it's almost asleep. I think that's why there are verses that compare man to a beast. Their origin is the same and what seperates them is often asleep.
:2c:

Could that "extra something" be that God had dialouge with man?

[WhiteWings]

James, I think there are translation issues with the word soul and spirit. So I'll try to explain my view without those words.

God created lifeless objects out of sand. He created statues that looked like a whale, a bird and a man. The where all dead.
Then He added something to all those statues that gave them live. That something was exactly the same for whale, bird and man. So upto this point we have 3 creatures that look differently but are made of exactly the same materials and got added exactly the same extra that gave life.
Then God gave the human form something extra that He did not give to the others. That something is the distinction between man and beast. I do not know if that something extra was added a split second after He animated the statues or that it was added long after that.

So my summary.
All living creatures share dust/flesh and the force that animates them. Man recieved a extra 'something'.
Man and animal are both pots. God put 1 thing in the animal pots. God put 2 things in the human pots.

That 2nd thing is heavily veiled/darkened. Often it's almost asleep. I think that's why there are verses that compare man to a beast. Their origin is the same and what seperates them is often asleep.
:2c:

Could that "extra something" be that God had dialouge with man?

You mean God added something by chatting with Adam???

[sheila]

  man received grace and Holy spirit[undeserved kindness and an intercessor] when lowered into a weakened flesh

[micah7:9]

James, I think there are translation issues with the word soul and spirit. So I'll try to explain my view without those words.

God created lifeless objects out of sand. He created statues that looked like a whale, a bird and a man. The where all dead.
Then He added something to all those statues that gave them live. That something was exactly the same for whale, bird and man. So upto this point we have 3 creatures that look differently but are made of exactly the same materials and got added exactly the same extra that gave life.
Then God gave the human form something extra that He did not give to the others. That something is the distinction between man and beast. I do not know if that something extra was added a split second after He animated the statues or that it was added long after that.

So my summary.
All living creatures share dust/flesh and the force that animates them. Man recieved a extra 'something'.
Man and animal are both pots. God put 1 thing in the animal pots. God put 2 things in the human pots.

That 2nd thing is heavily veiled/darkened. Often it's almost asleep. I think that's why there are verses that compare man to a beast. Their origin is the same and what seperates them is often asleep.
:2c:

Could that "extra something" be that God had dialouge with man?

You mean God added something by chatting with Adam???

Well He didnt talk to the cattle or fish or fowl that I know of anyway. Man is certainly different in that sense, man talks or as you say "chatting." :grin:

[sheila]

 man received speech...and can write words....and God can write in man's heart....HIS LAW