We will be changed

[WhiteWings]

The holy of holies is where man and God meet together in Spirit--face to face.  Only the High Priest goes in there.  In our case, our High Priest, Jesus, can take us in there--whoever has the Son has the Father.  We can boldly go before the throne of God because of Jesus.

The Holy Place, Inner Court, is for the priests and the men, right?  And, behind that, the women.

The Inner Courts
The Court of the Women was not exclusive to women. It was called this because this was as far within the Temple as women were permitted to enter. The court was surrounded by colonnades. Along the walls there were thirteen jars which served as recepticals for various offerings.

Worshipers would come in and drop their offering into one of the jars. It was in such a manner that Jesus and His disciples would have watched the poor widow bringing her offering into the Temple (Mark 12:43).

On the west side of the Court of Women were 15 steps that led up to the Nicanor Gate, also made of Corinthian Brass. This gate led into the inner courtyard of the Temple.

The inner courts were made up of the Court of the Men, the Court of the Levites, and the Court of the Priests. Within the Court of the Priests there were the Altar and the Laver.
The altar was made of rough, unhewn stones. It stood 15 feet high and was surrounded by a raised platform so that the priests could reach its surface. In contrast to the Altar of Incense within the Temple, this altar was used for sacrificing animals.

The Laver was an immense brass bowl of water originally supported by the statues of twelve oxen, though they were removed in the days of King Ahaz (2 Kings 16:17). It was drained every evening and refilled each morning. It was also known as the "sea." This is significant when we read in Revelation 4:5 of the Throne of God, the elders and a sea of glass like crystal.

Twelve more steps led up to the Temple itself. Two great columns flanked the doors leading into the Temple. Only the priests were permitted through these doors and only at the appropriate times.

The outer court is where the sacrifice is made, burnt offering, --to me this is proof that all humanity is covered by the cross.

Nope. Most of humanity is outside the outer court. The outer court isn't the rest of earth.
I think the cross gives everybody the right to visit the Temple.
Dunno the exact dimensions but there is nothing remotely holy 3000 cubits (2000ft) from the centre of the Temple.

This was true of both the temple and the tabernacle.

I agree the body is the outer court. 
The inner court I would say is the soul.
The Holy of Holies I would say is the spirit/Spirit.

The Ark represents our bodies carrying the seed of Christ--Christ in you the hope of glory.

We need Cardinal.

Yeah, she always talks about the female spirit. So I wonder how that links to the court of women.

[WhiteWings]

This idea of the tabernacle inside the Temple could explain this passage:

for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

--Gal 3:27

And this:

While we live in these earthly bodies, we groan and sigh, but it's not that we want to die and get rid of these bodies that clothe us. Rather, we want to put on our new bodies so that these dying bodies will be swallowed up by life.

--2 Cor 5:4


The idea being that something temporary is being clothed upon by something more permanent and more powerful.  Again--the verb used  is enduo--to put on as one might put on clothes--sinking into a garment.

Or the other way around....
The first Temple was by Moses. It was an Ark. A bunch of sticks and animal skins. It was really a tent. Nothing like Solomon's or Herod's Temple.
Animal skins. Now think back on what I wrote about we being animals.... :happy3:

God gave moses the blueprint for the Tabernacle to house the Ark.

I don't care what kind of animal skins you put on me.  My spirit is still hidden in Christ within.

But you should care. Those skins were of different animals. Were place in a special order/position. Special size and thickness.
I'm sure that should tell us something...

But notice we have something within which is clothed upon by something outside.

I really wonder that outside is made perfect or discarded....
Remember that the curtain that rent when Jesus died was of goat hair. I see it as  a veil ripped away. Goats represent 'bad'.
So if Moses tent represents your spirit covered by goat skin I would say it will be totally destroyed instead of renewed.
Perhaps replaced with sheep skin...?

The disciples already had been given the indwelling HS by Jesus--before they were clothed upon by the HS at Pentecost.

:dontknow:

[Molly]

Question:  Couldn't the men [and women] go into the covered part of the Temple, inside the doors?   To watch the Priests in the inner court perform their functions?


And, the Gentiles had to stay outside in the outer court.

[Molly]

So if Moses tent represents your spirit covered by goat skin I would say it will be totally destroyed instead of renewed.

Maybe changed is a better word--at the atomic level.

This could be why no one recognized the resurrected Christ until he spoke to them, but still his body was removed from the grave.

[WhiteWings]

The priest could be see far of...
The High priest was a overseeer (sp?). He could see Jesus on the cross (near the altar of the red heifer) and the thousands of sheep being killed when Jesus cried out. (Jesus shouted when the throats of the other sheep were slit (sp? cut..)

There was only a curtain seperating the Holies from the Holy of Holies.

There is some evidence that there were in fact two curtains, a cubit apart (half a meter), separating the Holy Place from the Holy of Holies (m. Yoma 5.1; see Heb 9:3). Philo explains that the outer curtain was called the "covering" (kalumma) whereas the inner curtain was called the "veil" (katapetasma) (Vita Mos. 2.101).

The Court of Women led into the Court of the Israelites via a curved staircase of fifteen steps, which led up to the Nicanor Gate (m. Mid. 1.4; 2.6). As indicated, according to Josephus, this gate was larger than the other nine gates (being fifty cubits high with doors forty cubits wide); its doors were supposed to have been made of Corinthian bronze (War 5.201) and it took twenty men to open and close it (War 6.5.3; 293).


Pics: http://www.angelfire.com/nt/theology/temple.html


Interesting article about veils: http://www.ridgeroadbaptist.org/TheVeiloftheTemple.htm

http://www.pbnradio.com/news/code/displayIT.php?2009-10-17_THE_TEMPLE_MOUNT_-_PART_16
http://www.abu.nb.ca/courses/NTIntro/JerusalTempl4.htm

Temple Warning Sign[/b] (http://www.abu.nb.ca/courses/NTIntro/Images/WarnSign22.gif) [size=-1]One complete and two fragmentary copies (all in Greek) of the warning to gentiles to proceed no further have been discovered. The inscription translates as follows: "No foreigner is to enter within the balustrade and embankment around the sanctuary. Whoever is caught will have himself to blame for his death which follows." Both Greek (above) and Latin versions of this warning were posted at regular intervals around the soreg (balustrade).[/size][/t][/t] [/t]

[/td][/tr][/table]

[redhotmagma]

sheep skin is wool, which the priests couldn't wear in the inner court, maybe we are changed to linen?  Linen never had blood.

As far as the ark being in the second temple, I was just thinking if it wasn't (which I believe to be the case) maybe one of the reasons (besides the Israelites worshipping the cherubim) was that it was foreshadowing of the New Covenant, being instituted by the tearing of the veil (which also had cherubim on it).  Like second temple was a transition temple from old to new then total removal of the stone temple.  The opposite of the way the temple came.  No temple, then the tent of meeting, then the tabernacle, then the 1st temple (being the culmination of the OC, Solomon being the zenith of physical israel)then 2nd temple no ark, then 2nd temple no veil, then temple totally destroyed.  So temple increases physically until solomon, then decreases physically to Christ in us.

The start and end point being the same too, if the garden=temple, and if the garden is inside us, we're right back where we started RE-concilled to God.

[WhiteWings]

(http://www.tgm.org/TempleInWildernessFloorPlan.jpg)
(http://www.tgm.org/TempleOfManFloorPlan.jpg)

http://www.tgm.org/URTheTempleOfHS.html  Click

Compare with teh following diagram and numbers:
(http://www.biblestudy.org/biblepic/diagram-of-inside-of-temple-in-jerusalem-from-biblestudy-dot-org.jpg)

Numbers Used in Temple Diagram 


1. Eben Shetiyyah  4. Table of Showbread  7. Attic of Abtinas 

2. Candlestick  5. Chamber of Knives  8. Chamber of Pancake Makers 

3. Altar of Incense  6. Chamber of Knives  9. Chamber of Phinehas
(Vestment Keeper) 
10. Fifteen Semi-circular Steps

[sheila]

   deep stuff!

   the ark always symbolizes the 'word of God'...for this reason Moses was placed in an ark among the reeds...the 'word of God' speaking deliverance

   to Israel was spoken through him. Same with Jonah[dove] in the ark[word of God preserving life and rainbow covenant]

    there was no ark in the temple in Jesus day..because Jesus was the ark'word of God come inflesh'  the Glory that was in Him was rejected

   by those who sat in Moses seat. and resulted in desolation of the temple.

      I beleive that the two temples that were destroyed..depicted such spiritual idolatry that 'the Glory departed" resulting in desolation

      No temple because God and the Lamb is it's temple[Holy city] depicts permanancy of spiritual residing of man with God.....

     Herods temple indeed looked glorious[work of man's hands] but unless God's Glory inhabited it[spirit] it is nothing but rubble.

    to me all these various dwellings...of God.....whether..humble/tent/Grand/Solomon or Herod are temporary and totally dependant on

  whether the spirit of GOD dwells in them...

     the no temple spiritual city depicts  always dwelling with the Lord in spirit and truth..being firmly established....the camp of the Holy city that God loves..

  in revelation...represents the festival of booths...where God is delivering from Egypt and Babylon and have led the people into the wilderness...and

   they are on their way to the Land of Promise[their permanent inheritance]

     Joshus,not Moses crosses the Jordan ahead of the people. Depicting Jesus/grace not law can give us our promised inheritance.

   for seven days ,seven preists carrying trumpets of rams horns[see Revelation] in front of the ark.....the seventh time around when

  the preists sounded the trumpet blast,Joshua said, 'SHOUT!!!  FOR THE LORD HAS GIVEN YOU THE CITY!

   AT THAT TIME JOSHUA PRONOUNCED THIS SOLEMN OATH,'CURSED BEFORE THE LORD IS THE MAN WHO UNDERTAKES TO REBUILD

  THIS CITY,JERICHO...AT THE COST OF HIS FIRSTBORN SON WILL HE LAY THE FOUNDATIONS,AT THE COST OF HIS YOUNGEST

WILL HE SET UP IT'S GATES[Luke 6;28  Bless those who curse you,pray for those who mistreat you].


    Oftentimes cities and ships are referred to as of a femine gender

[Nathan]

Mind if I throw in my dimension of the tabernacle?  I see it to be the body of Christ, which includes also the Word.  But for every station the priest was to address, I believe, was also connected to each scar that remain on Jesus body after the resurrection.  The altar of sacrifice would be the scars from the nails in his feet.  The laver, full of bloody water or watery blood, would be where he was pierced in the side and blood and water poured out . . .much like a woman giving birth has both blood and water pouring out of her womb . . .inside the holy place would be the golden candle stick (left hand) table of shewbread (right hand) and the altar of incense (crown of thorns).

For me, the ark represents the vessel of God.  The mercy seat depicts the nature of God, the contents in the ark represent the "heart" of God.  The manna being Christ, the stone tablets being Old Covenant law, and Aaron's rod that budded being the prophets  Israel lost 2/3 of the contents in the ark when they went to battle and abused the purpose of the whole religious system, but specifically the power in the ark.  It was when Saul was king, Samuel was just coming on the scene as the spiritual judge of the nation and they were in battle with the Philistines again . . .I think it was the Philistines . . .But they were losing so they took the ark to the front lines of the battle and it encouraged those in the trenches . . .propblem was, it instilled greater fear in the enemy than it did encouragment in the Israelites and they lost the battle anyway.

They did get the ark back, but the only thing "in" the ark after that was the stone tablets.  Their identity changed that day.  Now, the system "became" an identity of law enforcment rather than the fullness of God's nature including law.  Until . . . .

Basically, from that time on, they'd broken God's heart.  They never retrieved the manna, nor did they ever get back Aaron's rod.  But then manna showed up in the flesh.  it was time to for God's heart toward his people to be healed.  I believe that's why the mount of transfiguratin is so profound.  It shows the Manna of Jesus, the law in Moses and the prophets in Elijah coming together, uniting in one place for the first time since Israel lost the ark.  It was all pointing to the restoration through what was about to take place on the cross.  God got his heart back.

[sheila]

 I really like this post,Nathan :thumbsup:

    a return of the  children's hearts to the Father,and the Father's heart to the children :HeartThrob:

[Nathan]

 :beerburp:

[micah7:9]

Mind if I throw in my dimension of the tabernacle?  I see it to be the body of Christ, which includes also the Word.  But for every station the priest was to address, I believe, was also connected to each scar that remain on Jesus body after the resurrection.  The altar of sacrifice would be the scars from the nails in his feet.  The laver, full of bloody water or watery blood, would be where he was pierced in the side and blood and water poured out . . .much like a woman giving birth has both blood and water pouring out of her womb . . .inside the holy place would be the golden candle stick (left hand) table of shewbread (right hand) and the altar of incense (crown of thorns).

For me, the ark represents the vessel of God.  The mercy seat depicts the nature of God, the contents in the ark represent the "heart" of God.  The manna being Christ, the stone tablets being Old Covenant law, and Aaron's rod that budded being the prophets  Israel lost 2/3 of the contents in the ark when they went to battle and abused the purpose of the whole religious system, but specifically the power in the ark.  It was when Saul was king, Samuel was just coming on the scene as the spiritual judge of the nation and they were in battle with the Philistines again . . .I think it was the Philistines . . .But they were losing so they took the ark to the front lines of the battle and it encouraged those in the trenches . . .propblem was, it instilled greater fear in the enemy than it did encouragment in the Israelites and they lost the battle anyway.

They did get the ark back, but the only thing "in" the ark after that was the stone tablets.  Their identity changed that day.  Now, the system "became" an identity of law enforcment rather than the fullness of God's nature including law.  Until . . . .

Basically, from that time on, they'd broken God's heart.  They never retrieved the manna, nor did they ever get back Aaron's rod.  But then manna showed up in the flesh.  it was time to for God's heart toward his people to be healed.  I believe that's why the mount of transfiguratin is so profound.  It shows the Manna of Jesus, the law in Moses and the prophets in Elijah coming together, uniting in one place for the first time since Israel lost the ark.  It was all pointing to the restoration through what was about to take place on the cross.  God got his heart back.

[Molly]

2 Corinthians 5

5:1 {If--be dissolved} (\ean--kataluthēi\). Third class
condition, \ean\ and first aorist passive subjunctive. The very
word used (\kataluō\) for striking down a tent. {The earthly
house of our tabernacle} (\hē epigeios hēmōn oikia tou skēnous\).
Rather, "If our earthly (see on ¯1Co 15:40 for \epigeios\) house
of the tent (\skēnos\, another form of \skēnē\, tent, from root
\ska\, to cover)." Appositive genitive, the house (\oikia\) is
the tent. {We have} (\echomen\). Present indicative. We possess
the title to it now by faith. "Faith is the title-deed
(\hupostasis\) to things hoped for" (Heb 11:7). {A building
from God} (\oikodomēn ek theou\). This \oikodomē\ (found in
Aristotle, Plutarch, LXX, etc., and papyri, though condemned by
Atticists) is more substantial than the \skēnos\. {Not made with
hands} (\acheiropoiēton\). Found first in Mr 14:58 in charge
against Jesus before the Sanhedrin (both the common verbal
\cheiropoiēton\ and the newly made vernacular \acheiropoiēton\,
same verbal with \a\ privative). Elsewhere only here and Col
2:11. Spiritual, eternal home.

5:2 {To be clothed upon with our habitation which is from heaven}
(\to oikētērion hēmōn to ex ouranou ependusasthai\). First aorist
middle infinitive of late verb \ependuō\, double compound (\ep,
en\) to put upon oneself. Cf. \ependutēs\ for a fisherman's linen
blouse or upper garment (Joh 21:7). \Oikētērion\ is old word
used here of the spiritual body as the abode of the spirit. It is
a mixed metaphor (putting on as garment the dwelling-place).


5:3 {Being clothed} (\endusamenoi\). First aorist middle
participle, having put on the garment. {Naked} (\gumnoi\). That
is, disembodied spirits, "like the souls in Sheol, without form,
and void of all power of activity" (Plummer).

5:4 {Not for that we would be unclothed} (\eph' hōi ou thelomen
ekdusasthai\). Rather, "For that (\eph' hōi\) we do not wish to
put off the clothing, but to put it on" (\all' ependusasthai\).
The transposition of the negative \ou\ weakens the sense. Paul
does not wish to be a mere disembodied spirit without his
spiritual garment. {That what is mortal may be swallowed up of
life} (\hina katapothēi to thnēton hupo tēs zōēs\). "Only what is
mortal perishes; the personality, consisting of soul and body,
survives," (Plummer). See on ¯1:22 for "the earnest of the
spirit."

http://www.ccel.org/r/robertson_at/wordpictures/htm/2CO5.RWP.html

[Molly]

2:20 [You are] domed-roof houses having been built over2026 (epoikodomēthentes), upon (epi) the (tē) foundation (themeliō) of the (tōn) apostles (apostolōn), and (kai) prophets (prophētōn), Christ (christou) Jesus (Iēsou) being (ontos) [the] angle tip204 (akrogōniaiou) of Him (autou);  See Mat. 21:42



2:21 in (en) whom (hō) every (pasa) domed-roof house3619 (oikodomē) being jointed together (sunarmologoumenē) grows (auxei) into (eis) a holy (hagion) Holy Place (naon) in (en) [the] LORD (kuriō);  See 1 Cor. 14:4 for each householder being a domed-roof house as well.



2:22 in (en) whom (hō) you (humeis) also (kai) are being built together [into] a domed-roof house4925 (sunoikodomeisthe), into (eis) a homing down place (katoikētērion) of the (tou) God (theou), in (en) [one] Spirit (pneumati).

--Eph 2

[WhiteWings]

I would like some feedback on reply #81

Click below for bigger pictures.
http://www.tgm.org/TempleInWildernessFloorPlan.jpg
http://www.tgm.org/TempleOfManFloorPlan.jpg
http://www.tgm.org/URTheTempleOfHS.html


Compare with the following diagram and numbers:
http://www.biblestudy.org/biblepic/diagram-of-inside-of-temple-in-jerusalem-from-biblestudy-dot-org.jpg

Numbers Used in Temple Diagram 

1. Eben Shetiyyah 
2. Candlestick 
3. Altar of Incense
4. Table of Showbread 
5. Chamber of Knives
6. Chamber of Knives
7. Attic of Abtinas 
8. Chamber of Pancake Makers 
9. Chamber of Phinehas (Vestment Keeper) 
10. Fifteen Semi-circular Steps

[micah7:9]

I would like some feedback on reply #81

Click below for bigger pictures.
http://www.tgm.org/TempleInWildernessFloorPlan.jpg
http://www.tgm.org/TempleOfManFloorPlan.jpg
http://www.tgm.org/URTheTempleOfHS.html


Compare with the following diagram and numbers:
http://www.biblestudy.org/biblepic/diagram-of-inside-of-temple-in-jerusalem-from-biblestudy-dot-org.jpg

Numbers Used in Temple Diagram 

1. Eben Shetiyyah 
2. Candlestick 
3. Altar of Incense
4. Table of Showbread 
5. Chamber of Knives
6. Chamber of Knives
7. Attic of Abtinas 
8. Chamber of Pancake Makers 
9. Chamber of Phinehas (Vestment Keeper) 
10. Fifteen Semi-circular Steps

I like the diagrams but as for me in that "temple of man diagram" needs only to change that word "soul" to "sentient" and I believe it would be correct. but thats just me.

[micah7:9]

At the risk of repeating myself, a glorified body is one that is vivified by the quickening Spirit, thereby immortal.

For some reason, I've taken a liking to the word permanent.
At the risk of repeating myself, a glorified body is one that is vivified by the quickening Spirit, thereby permanent.
Works for me!
No one takes my life He said, I lay it down.

Is not a "vivified" a quickening spirit?  The first man, Adam, "became a living soul:the last Adam a vivifying Spirit."

Thanks for all comments. I think my question has run its course for now Peace and Love Through Jesus :bigGrin:

We start out as the first Adam and end up as the second Adam.  Yes, the last Adam is a vivifying spirit--able to give Life--and we shall be like him.

Answer removed by Micah

[sheila]

   the key word is sown....God sows the good seed....in the feild[dust]...then enemy sows tares....law of kinds...

   only one is GOOD...the Father......the good seed is the spiritual progency of GOD. It is the hand of the Father that sows his seed in the earth....

[Beloved Servant]

At the risk of repeating myself, a glorified body is one that is vivified by the quickening Spirit, thereby immortal.

For some reason, I've taken a liking to the word permanent.
At the risk of repeating myself, a glorified body is one that is vivified by the quickening Spirit, thereby permanent.
Works for me!
No one takes my life He said, I lay it down.

Is not a "vivified" a quickening spirit?  The first man, Adam, "became a living soul:the last Adam a vivifying Spirit."

Thanks for all comments. I think my question has run its course for now Peace and Love Through Jesus :bigGrin:

We start out as the first Adam and end up as the second Adam.  Yes, the last Adam is a vivifying spirit--able to give Life--and we shall be like him.

So to sum up the 'pattern of sound words' on this subject, we are all 'born naked' from the hand of the Creator. We are all "shapen in iniquity...conceived in sin." We "ARE dust."

Mr. Eby teaches that "you are not a physical [dust] being having a spiritual experience, you are a spirit having a physical [earthy] experience." He calls this "the law of circularity." This doctrine flies in the face of clear Biblical teaching:

1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
Mr. Eby does not believe "that was not first which is spiritual." He teaches the exact opposite. In doing so he has bought into the serpent's lie: "Thou shalt not surely die [Only your body will die. You are first a spirit having an earthly experience].
Author Unknown

I suggest you write Brother Eby about clarification if not inclined to search for yourself that that quote is untrue.
He explains plainly how the Scripture is understood.
I will not defend him any further but he is at your disposal to inquire unlike "Author Unknown."

[Nathan]

I agree with Sheila . . .the seed was sown into flesh.  I think Paul is basically saying "man" manifested first as a physical being . . .to me, it's not saying I never existed before entering into this realm of the flesh, it's merely saying I wasn't a fully human being "until" I manfested in the flesh. 

That is not an easy passage to just embrace literally and move on, it takes some time to let it absorb spiritually so that God can reveal to us what's being said.  Whoever the author was that was debunking Eby was actually contradicting the passage that says when you die, your body goes back to the ground from where it came from and . . .say it with me cuz I know you all know it . .. I've seen it posted on here more than once . . .your spirit goes . .where?  BACK to God WHO SENT IT.  Which indicates that it did exist "before" it entered into these bodies of flesh. 

It's a tough one to get our minds to see because our minds can't understand just what the spiritual realm consists of.  We try to come up with "images" of what we "think" it is, but there's just no original template from which we can draw from. 

But for me . . ."I" am not fully "me" unless the three main componants are in place . . .two actually, but when the two come together they "become" three . . (where two or more are gathered together . . .hmmm . .. )  But when my SPIRIT (one) enters into my BODY (two) my SOUL manifests that bond.  It's at that point I am "me"  When I die and my spirit leaves the flesh, my spirit still exists, but "I" am not completely "me" anymore until when all things are complete and we all return to our bodies that are transformed, glorified in order for us to become completely us again. 

that's how I see it today anyway . .. tomorrow could bring a whole new box of cookies to munch on.

So the "complete" me manifests through the first Adam first, and then is transformed into the last Adam through Grace by faith.

[micah7:9]

At the risk of repeating myself, a glorified body is one that is vivified by the quickening Spirit, thereby immortal.

For some reason, I've taken a liking to the word permanent.
At the risk of repeating myself, a glorified body is one that is vivified by the quickening Spirit, thereby permanent.
Works for me!
No one takes my life He said, I lay it down.

Is not a "vivified" a quickening spirit?  The first man, Adam, "became a living soul:the last Adam a vivifying Spirit."

Thanks for all comments. I think my question has run its course for now Peace and Love Through Jesus :bigGrin:

We start out as the first Adam and end up as the second Adam.  Yes, the last Adam is a vivifying spirit--able to give Life--and we shall be like him.

So to sum up the 'pattern of sound words' on this subject, we are all 'born naked' from the hand of the Creator. We are all "shapen in iniquity...conceived in sin." We "ARE dust."

Mr. Eby teaches that "you are not a physical [dust] being having a spiritual experience, you are a spirit having a physical [earthy] experience." He calls this "the law of circularity." This doctrine flies in the face of clear Biblical teaching:

1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
Mr. Eby does not believe "that was not first which is spiritual." He teaches the exact opposite. In doing so he has bought into the serpent's lie: "Thou shalt not surely die [Only your body will die. You are first a spirit having an earthly experience].
Mike Vinson

I suggest you write Brother Eby about clarification if not inclined to search for yourself that that quote is untrue.
He explains plainly how the Scripture is understood.
I will not defend him any further but he is at your disposal to inquire unlike "Author Unknown."

The author is Mike Vinson. And I do apologize for my post.

[Beloved Servant]

. . .say it with me cuz I know you all know it ...

Brilliant!

[micah7:9]

I agree with Sheila . . .the seed was sown into flesh.  I think Paul is basically saying "man" manifested first as a physical being . . .to me, it's not saying I never existed before entering into this realm of the flesh, it's merely saying I wasn't a fully human being "until" I manfested in the flesh. 

That is not an easy passage to just embrace literally and move on, it takes some time to let it absorb spiritually so that God can reveal to us what's being said.  Whoever the author was that was debunking Eby was actually contradicting the passage that says when you die, your body goes back to the ground from where it came from and . . .say it with me cuz I know you all know it . .. I've seen it posted on here more than once . . .your spirit goes . .where?  BACK to God WHO SENT IT.  Which indicates that it did exist "before" it entered into these bodies of flesh. 

It's a tough one to get our minds to see because our minds can't understand just what the spiritual realm consists of.  We try to come up with "images" of what we "think" it is, but there's just no original template from which we can draw from. 

But for me . . ."I" am not fully "me" unless the three main componants are in place . . .two actually, but when the two come together they "become" three . . (where two or more are gathered together . . .hmmm . .. )  But when my SPIRIT (one) enters into my BODY (two) my SOUL manifests that bond.  It's at that point I am "me"  When I die and my spirit leaves the flesh, my spirit still exists, but "I" am not completely "me" anymore until when all things are complete and we all return to our bodies that are transformed, glorified in order for us to become completely us again. 

that's how I see it today anyway . .. tomorrow could bring a whole new box of cookies to munch on.

So the "complete" me manifests through the first Adam first, and then is transformed into the last Adam through Grace by faith.

Then am I to suspect that man/adam[ruddy, that is, a human being] of Gen. 2:7 was NOT the first man adam
but that there was a [man/adam [ruddy, that is, a human being] of 1Cor.15:45 was before the first man/adam but that man/adam[ruddy, that is, a human being] was a breath/spirit to start out with and  Paul got it wrong?


1Co 15:45  In the same way also it is written, "THE FIRST MAN ADAM BECAME A LIVING ANIMAL"; the last Adam is a life-giving Spirit.

[WhiteWings]

That verse is neutral. Creature. Could be man or animal.

ψυχή
psuchē
Thayer Definition:
1) breath
1a) the breath of life
1a1) the vital force which animates the body and shows itself in breathing
1a1a) of animals
1a1b) of men
1b) life
1c) that in which there is life
1c1) a living being, a living soul
2) the soul
2a) the seat of the feelings, desires, affections, aversions (our heart, soul etc.)
2b) the (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life
2c) the soul as an essence which differs from the body and is not dissolved by death (distinguished from other parts of the body)

[Molly]

That verse is neutral. Creature. Could be man or animal.

ψυχή
psuchē
Thayer Definition:
1) breath
1a) the breath of life
1a1) the vital force which animates the body and shows itself in breathing
1a1a) of animals
1a1b) of men
1b) life
1c) that in which there is life
1c1) a living being, a living soul
2) the soul
2a) the seat of the feelings, desires, affections, aversions (our heart, soul etc.)
2b) the (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life
2c) the soul as an essence which differs from the body and is not dissolved by death (distinguished from other parts of the body)

I like this.

2b) the (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life.


I am getting annoyed at being called an 'animal.' :mshock:

[even if I do look like my dog.]