We will be changed

[Molly]

At the risk of repeating myself, a glorified body is one that is vivified by the quickening Spirit, thereby immortal.

For some reason, I've taken a liking to the word permanent.
At the risk of repeating myself, a glorified body is one that is vivified by the quickening Spirit, thereby permanent.
Works for me!
No one takes my life He said, I lay it down.

No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father."

--John 10:18

[WhiteWings]

At the risk of repeating myself, a glorified body is one that is vivified by the quickening Spirit, thereby immortal.

For some reason, I've taken a liking to the word permanent.
At the risk of repeating myself, a glorified body is one that is vivified by the quickening Spirit, thereby permanent.Works for me!
No one takes my life He said, I lay it down.

^YLT2 Corinthians 5
1 For we have known that if our earthly house of the tabernacle may be thrown down, a building from God we have, an house not made with hands--age-during--in the heavens,

[Molly]

At the risk of repeating myself, a glorified body is one that is vivified by the quickening Spirit, thereby immortal.

For some reason, I've taken a liking to the word permanent.
At the risk of repeating myself, a glorified body is one that is vivified by the quickening Spirit, thereby permanent.Works for me!
No one takes my life He said, I lay it down.

^YLT2 Corinthians 5
1 For we have known that if our earthly house of the tabernacle may be thrown down, a building from God we have, an house not made with hands--age-during--in the heavens,

ww, do you think this 'house' in the heavens will be replaced with glorified bodies at the end of the age?

[micah7:9]

What is our glorified bpdy?

At the risk of repeating myself, a glorified body is one that is vivified by the quickening Spirit, thereby immortal.

a glimpse of it--

his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as light.

Again, I understand glorified, so when we are vivified(a life giving spirit) we become just as Him?

"his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as light." You do understand this to be spiritual yes.

We become just as him in body, filled with the HS, given the mind of Christ, to the saving of our souls.

understand it to be spiritual?  What do you mean? I understand it to be literal.

The life of our current bodies is in the blood--for which cause you are always accusing me of being transient--in danger of speedy disappearance--like the animals. 

The life of our glorified bodies will be in the Spirit.



54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
--1Cor 15

"understand it to be spiritual?  What do you mean? I understand it to be literal." Why is it literal?

Lev 17:11 for the soul of the flesh, it is in the blood, and I Myself have assigned it to you to make a propitiatory shelter over your souls on the altar; for the blood, in the soul it makes a propitiatory shelter.
"We become just as him in body, filled with the HS, given the mind of Christ," isnt this a becoming now?

[micah7:9]

At the risk of repeating myself, a glorified body is one that is vivified by the quickening Spirit, thereby immortal.

For some reason, I've taken a liking to the word permanent.
At the risk of repeating myself, a glorified body is one that is vivified by the quickening Spirit, thereby permanent.
Works for me!
No one takes my life He said, I lay it down.

Is not a "vivified" a quickening spirit?  The first man, Adam, "became a living soul:the last Adam a vivifying Spirit."

Thanks for all comments. I think my question has run its course for now Peace and Love Through Jesus :bigGrin:

[Molly]

"We become just as him in body, filled with the HS, given the mind of Christ," isnt this a becoming now?

We now have an earnest of it.

12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

--Eph 1

"earnest"
G728
ἀῤῥαβών
arrhabōn
ar-hrab-ohn'
Of Hebrew origin [H6162]; a pledge, that is, part of the purchase money or property given in advance as security for the rest: - earnest.


We are sealed with the Holy Spirit as His pledge that he will come and redeem us fully.  It is the downpayment on our redemption.

But, the adoption [appointing of sons] will not be complete until we are given a glorified body.

Romans 8:23
And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

[Molly]

At the risk of repeating myself, a glorified body is one that is vivified by the quickening Spirit, thereby immortal.

For some reason, I've taken a liking to the word permanent.
At the risk of repeating myself, a glorified body is one that is vivified by the quickening Spirit, thereby permanent.
Works for me!
No one takes my life He said, I lay it down.

Is not a "vivified" a quickening spirit?  The first man, Adam, "became a living soul:the last Adam a vivifying Spirit."

Thanks for all comments. I think my question has run its course for now Peace and Love Through Jesus :bigGrin:

We start out as the first Adam and end up as the second Adam.  Yes, the last Adam is a vivifying spirit--able to give Life--and we shall be like him.

[Beloved Servant]

it's time Molly.

[Molly]

it's time Molly.

:HeartThrob:

[WhiteWings]

At the risk of repeating myself, a glorified body is one that is vivified by the quickening Spirit, thereby immortal.

For some reason, I've taken a liking to the word permanent.
At the risk of repeating myself, a glorified body is one that is vivified by the quickening Spirit, thereby permanent.Works for me!
No one takes my life He said, I lay it down.

^YLT2 Corinthians 5
1 For we have known that if our earthly house of the tabernacle may be thrown down, a building from God we have, an house not made with hands--age-during--in the heavens,

ww, do you think this 'house' in the heavens will be replaced with glorified bodies at the end of the age?

Maybe that house is the glorified body...
God is spirit. Perhaps a glorified body is just a intermediate step????

Also note there is something "strange" about the verse.
The house is renewed. Not the tabernacle.
During the feast of Tabernacles/Booth the Jews stayed in a tent build of freshly cut (living) twigs/branches/wood. They stayed there for 7 days. On the 7th day they were clean. The reason was that the spirit was/is defiled by the dead body it has lived in.
Just writing this from memory. Could be wrong on details; but I think it's very significant in this thread!

[jabcat]

The house is renewed. Not the tabernacle.
During the feast of Tabernacles/Booth the Jews stayed in a tent build of freshly cut (living) twigs/branches/wood. They stayed there for 7 days. On the 7th day they were clean. The reason was that the spirit was/is defiled by the dead body it has lived in.
Just writing this from memory. Could be wrong on details; but I think it's very significant in this thread!

:thumbsup:

[Molly]

I'm thinking wherever we live is a house of God,-- whether of the temporary variety [tabernacle] or the more permanent 'eternal house', whether a tent or a temple or a mansion,--  as the abode of the spirit.

"Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God?  You are not your own;  you were bought at a price.  Therefore honor God with your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.  " (1 Cor. 6:19-20).


But he was also afraid and said, "What an awesome place this is! It is none other than the house of God, the very gateway to heaven!" [Gen 28:17]


"For we know that if our [earthly house=epigeios oikea] of this [tabernacle=skenos (implies transiency)] were dissolved, we have [a building of God=oikodomē ex theos], an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens."

Remember Solomon's Temple was quarried and cut away from the site, so then when it was erected, it was fitted together silently --signifying the house not made with hands.


The stones used in the construction of the Temple were finished at the quarry, so there was no sound of hammer, ax, or any other iron tool at the building site.

--1Kings 6:7

[Molly]

The house is renewed. Not the tabernacle.
During the feast of Tabernacles/Booth the Jews stayed in a tent build of freshly cut (living) twigs/branches/wood. They stayed there for 7 days. On the 7th day they were clean. The reason was that the spirit was/is defiled by the dead body it has lived in.
Just writing this from memory. Could be wrong on details; but I think it's very significant in this thread!

:thumbsup:

The other thing about the booths they stayed in--IIRC they resembled the open sided tent of David, where the Ark was displayed to all=glorified bodies.


14And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod.

15So David and all the house of Israel brought up the ark of the LORD with shouting, and with the sound of the trumpet.

17And they brought in the ark of the LORD, and set it in his place, in the midst of the tabernacle that David had pitched for it: and David offered burnt offerings and peace offerings before the LORD.

18And as soon as David had made an end of offering burnt offerings and peace offerings, he blessed the people in the name of the LORD of hosts.

--2 Sam 6

[WhiteWings]

I'm thinking wherever we live is a house of God,-- whether of the temporary variety [tabernacle] or the more permanent 'eternal house',

There is NO eternal house mentioned in the Bible. I know some/many translations like the KJV use the word eternal. But the more literal use "age". The standard aion stuff.

whether a tent or a temple or a mansion,--  as the abode of the spirit.

Keep in mind that there a TWO 'buildings'
The literal Tabernacle was inside the literal Temple of stone and wood that stood at Jesus' time.
Jesus said His temple (body) would be rebuild in 3 days. He didn't speak about the Tabernacle inside that Temple.

"Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God?  You are not your own;  you were bought at a price.  Therefore honor God with your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.  " (1 Cor. 6:19-20).

And do you, Molly, know that the Holy Spirit/God Himself left the Temple.....?
Jewish wrings show that a voice from the Holies of Holies said (around 68AD IIRC) said "hence we depart"
And even if that's a fable it's a fact the HS doesn't live in that Temple anymore because it's totally destroyed.
I think all the literal things that happend with that Temple are a pattern of things to come.
/EDIT Also remember that the Jews lived in the Tabernacle/Booth for 7 days and then left that Tabernacle....

But he was also afraid and said, "What an awesome place this is! It is none other than the house of God, the very gateway to heaven!" [Gen 28:17]

Gateways imply trings in transit. Not a permanet dwelling place. The awesome place was a airport terminal to a holiday desination. Not a permanent residence.
:2c:

"For we know that if our [earthly house=epigeios oikea] of this [tabernacle=skenos (implies transiency)] were dissolved, we have [a building of God=oikodomē ex theos], an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens."

Again nothing eternal in this verse. It also contradicts with another verse. This eartly body is not made with hands.
Psalm 139:13 You made all the delicate, inner parts of my body and knit me together in my mother's womb.
For me that verse says God's hands knitted all peopel that were ever born in their mothers womb.

The stones used in the construction of the Temple were finished at the quarry, so there was no sound of hammer, ax, or any other iron tool at the building site.

--1Kings 6:7

Only groaning men handling stones of several tons  :winkgrin:

[Molly]

I'm thinking wherever we live is a house of God,-- whether of the temporary variety [tabernacle] or the more permanent 'eternal house',

There is NO eternal house mentioned in the Bible. I know some/many translations like the KJV use the word eternal. But the more literal use "age". The standard aion stuff.

Yes, I understand.

whether a tent or a temple or a mansion,--  as the abode of the spirit.

Keep in mind that there a TWO 'buildings'
The literal Tabernacle was inside the literal Temple of stone and wood that stood at Jesus' time.
Jesus said His temple (body) would be rebuild in 3 days. He didn't speak about the Tabernacle inside that Temple.

No I didn't know the tabernacle was inside the temple at Jesus' time.  Got pictures?

"Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God?  You are not your own;  you were bought at a price.  Therefore honor God with your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.  " (1 Cor. 6:19-20).

And do you, Molly, know that the Holy Spirit/God Himself left the Temple.....?
Jewish wrings show that a voice from the Holies of Holies said (around 68AD IIRC) said "hence we depart"
And even if that's a fable it's a fact the HS doesn't live in that Temple anymore because it's totally destroyed.
I think all the literal things that happend with that Temple are a pattern of things to come.
/EDIT Also remember that the Jews lived in the Tabernacle/Booth for 7 days and then left that Tabernacle....

, I know that.  Jesus said to the Jews--"I leave your house desolate'.  Not everyone has the indwelling HS either.

But he was also afraid and said, "What an awesome place this is! It is none other than the house of God, the very gateway to heaven!" [Gen 28:17]

Gateways imply trings in transit. Not a permanet dwelling place. The awesome place was a airport terminal to a holiday desination. Not a permanent residence.
:2c:

Jacob was in his human body when he said that.  Jesus is the gate.

"For we know that if our [earthly house=epigeios oikea] of this [tabernacle=skenos (implies transiency)] were dissolved, we have [a building of God=oikodomē ex theos], an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens."

Again nothing eternal in this verse. It also contradicts with another verse. This eartly body is not made with hands.
Psalm 139:13 You made all the delicate, inner parts of my body and knit me together in my mother's womb.
For me that verse says God's hands knitted all peopel that were ever born in their mothers womb.


I see this as a reference to the stone not cut with hands in Daviel 2, that breaks apart the kingdom of men and fills the earth with the kingdom of God.  Reference to a house made by God not men.  In other words--not made by human hands

The stones used in the construction of the Temple were finished at the quarry, so there was no sound of hammer, ax, or any other iron tool at the building site.

--1Kings 6:7

Only groaning men handling stones of several tons  :winkgrin:

They groaned in whispers then or else!

[Molly]

"For we know that if our [earthly house=epigeios oikea] of this [tabernacle=skenos (implies transiency)] were dissolved, we have [a building of God=oikodomē ex theos], an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens."


This building of God, oikodomē ex theos, implies a large architectural structure which has much more permanence than a tent, much like Solomon's Temple in relation to the Tabernacle--"God's Home".


19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

20And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

21In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

--Eph 2

[WhiteWings]

Molly: "For we know that if our [earthly house=epigeios oikea] of this [tabernacle=skenos (implies transiency)] were dissolved, we have [a building of God=oikodomē ex theos], an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens."
Again nothing eternal in this verse. It also contradicts with another verse. This eartly body is not made with hands.
WW: Psalm 139:13 You made all the delicate, inner parts of my body and knit me together in my mother's womb.
For me that verse says God's hands knitted all peopel that were ever born in their mothers womb.


Molly: I see this as a reference to the stone not cut with hands in Daviel 2, that breaks apart the kingdom of men and fills the earth with the kingdom of God.  Reference to a house made by God not men.  In other words--not made by human hands

I don't understand that. We are talking about bodies, not real houses. It can be argued people are build by the woman in who's womb the baby grows. The woman made the baby with her own hands. But Pslams clearly tells us God did the building.
So right now we are knitted by God's hands.

[Molly]

This idea of the tabernacle inside the Temple could explain this passage:

for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

--Gal 3:27

And this:

While we live in these earthly bodies, we groan and sigh, but it's not that we want to die and get rid of these bodies that clothe us. Rather, we want to put on our new bodies so that these dying bodies will be swallowed up by life.

--2 Cor 5:4


The idea being that something temporary is being clothed upon by something more permanent and more powerful.  Again--the verb used  is enduo--to put on as one might put on clothes--sinking into a garment.

Luke 24:49 And I will send upon you the promise of

my Father; but remain in the City of Jerusalem until you are

clothed with power from on high.

[Molly]

I don't understand that. We are talking about bodies, not real houses.

I think the reference is more to man building it or God building it.

In other words, David wanted to build God a house, --well, it's cute, really, man loving God so much he wants to build him a house---but meanwhile God is building a house for us to live with him together in--a house not made by [human] hands.

[WhiteWings]

whether a tent or a temple or a mansion,--  as the abode of the spirit.

Keep in mind that there a TWO 'buildings'
The literal Tabernacle was inside the literal Temple of stone and wood that stood at Jesus' time.
Jesus said His temple (body) would be rebuild in 3 days. He didn't speak about the Tabernacle inside that Temple.

No I didn't know the tabernacle was inside the temple at Jesus' time.  Got pictures?

:mblush: :mblush: I'm always/still mixing up Tabernacle and the Ark of convenant. Not very sure but I think what I wrote above is still true. Looking at a Temple layout we see more "levels of inside"

The convenant is inside the ark.
The Ark is inside the Holy of Holies.
The Holies of Holies is inside the Tabernacle.
The Tabernacle is inside the Temple.

Basicly the Tabernacle is the Temple minus the outer court.
Note that Jesus said He would rebuild the whole Temple complex in 3 days. That's including the outer court.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_YHoM9fbo9Os/TUfo6LsugjI/AAAAAAAAAII/ANIrJqDqYBQ/s1600/Tabernacle+schematic2.GIF)



So.........?

The holies of holies is obvious a very holy place.
The Ark itself is even more holy? And the law inside that ark even more?  <<<<===== just thinking out loud.

I haven't figured it all out yet but right now I'm sure that a body + a spirit inside is oversimplifying the reality of things that will happen. I would even say so over simplifed that it simply is very wrong. Just my  :2c:
Just trigger a bit of discussion.....
Whay if this flesh body is the whole Temple complex or the outer court.
What is the inner court/Tabernacle?
What is the Holies?
What is the Holy of Holies?
What is the Ark?

It's said there was no Ark in the Temple during Jesus time. It was lost in exile. (disputed)
Another guess. What if "God all in all" means the Ark finally is placed back.....?

Enough  :2c: for one post :laughing7:

[WhiteWings]

This idea of the tabernacle inside the Temple could explain this passage:

for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

--Gal 3:27

And this:

While we live in these earthly bodies, we groan and sigh, but it's not that we want to die and get rid of these bodies that clothe us. Rather, we want to put on our new bodies so that these dying bodies will be swallowed up by life.

--2 Cor 5:4


The idea being that something temporary is being clothed upon by something more permanent and more powerful.  Again--the verb used  is enduo--to put on as one might put on clothes--sinking into a garment.

Or the other way around....
The first Temple was by Moses. It was an Ark. A bunch of sticks and animal skins. It was really a tent. Nothing like Solomon's or Herod's Temple.
Animal skins. Now think back on what I wrote about we being animals.... :happy3:

[WhiteWings]

I don't understand that. We are talking about bodies, not real houses.

I think the reference is more to man building it or God building it.

In other words, David wanted to build God a house, --well, it's cute, really, man loving God so much he wants to build him a house---but meanwhile God is building a house for us to live with him together in--a house not made by [human] hands.

I see. But still Jesus (who seems to had some insight... :winkgrin:) spoke as His body as a temple.
So for me that means the stone Temple symbolizes the human body and what's stored inside.
Where is Miss Pattern aka Cardinal when you need her? :icon_jokercolor:

[Molly]

The holy of holies is where man and God meet together in Spirit--face to face.  Only the High Priest goes in there.  In our case, our High Priest, Jesus, can take us in there--whoever has the Son has the Father.  We can boldly go before the throne of God because of Jesus.

The Holy Place, Inner Court, is for the priests and the men, right?  And, behind that, the women.

The outer court is where the sacrifice is made, burnt offering, --to me this is proof that all humanity is covered by the cross.  This was true of both the temple and the tabernacle.

I agree the body is the outer court. 
The inner court I would say is the soul.
The Holy of Holies I would say is the spirit/Spirit.

The Ark represents our bodies carrying the seed of Christ--Christ in you the hope of glory.

We need Cardinal.

[Molly]

I don't understand that. We are talking about bodies, not real houses.

I think the reference is more to man building it or God building it.

In other words, David wanted to build God a house, --well, it's cute, really, man loving God so much he wants to build him a house---but meanwhile God is building a house for us to live with him together in--a house not made by [human] hands.

I see. But still Jesus (who seems to had some insight... :winkgrin:) spoke as His body as a temple.
So for me that means the stone Temple symbolizes the human body and what's stored inside.
Where is Miss Pattern aka Cardinal when you need her? :icon_jokercolor:

well, I think for Jesus this would be true.  We're talking about someone who can lay down his life and pick it up again.  God prepared a special body for him.

For us, the body is the tabernacle--a tent.  Even so, because of Christ's work on the cross, in this life we have access to God through his [literal] body.


By these regulations the Holy Spirit revealed that the entrance to the Most Holy Place was not freely open as long as the Tabernacle and the system it represented were still in use.
--Heb 9:8


19Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

20By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

--Heb 10

[Molly]

This idea of the tabernacle inside the Temple could explain this passage:

for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

--Gal 3:27

And this:

While we live in these earthly bodies, we groan and sigh, but it's not that we want to die and get rid of these bodies that clothe us. Rather, we want to put on our new bodies so that these dying bodies will be swallowed up by life.

--2 Cor 5:4


The idea being that something temporary is being clothed upon by something more permanent and more powerful.  Again--the verb used  is enduo--to put on as one might put on clothes--sinking into a garment.

Or the other way around....
The first Temple was by Moses. It was an Ark. A bunch of sticks and animal skins. It was really a tent. Nothing like Solomon's or Herod's Temple.
Animal skins. Now think back on what I wrote about we being animals.... :happy3:

God gave moses the blueprint for the Tabernacle to house the Ark.

I don't care what kind of animal skins you put on me.  My spirit is still hidden in Christ within.

But notice we have something within which is clothed upon by something outside.

The disciples already had been given the indwelling HS by Jesus--before they were clothed upon by the HS at Pentecost.