Does universalism make gay and lesbian marriages okay?

[SeekerSA]

Some pretty strong statements here.

To me any perversion with regard to sexual activity is sin.

Let us look by what I mean.

1. Multiple partners, whoring = adultery
2. Sex with cousins, family etc. = adultery
3. Same sex relationships = adultery and/or sodomy (this can apply to 1 & 2 above)

Sex was designed to be pleasurable and apart from apes/monkeys, I think we are the only ones that do it for pleasure as opposed to only for procreation.

I personally do not believe in genetic screw ups making people be attracted to same sex and to children for that matter.  Most men will agree, in early puberty there is usually some same sex exploration but not necessarily with sodomy involved.  I cannot speak for females but I suspect there may be cases there too.  This is a natural tendency, in men anyway, and I think some just do not outgrow this phase.

Sex crimes are no worse than murder and deserve the same punishment.  Yet we see in society, esp. when it comes to rape, cases often get thrown out of court.

Sex has become so taboo that parents do not or cannot talk openly about this natural side of man/woman.  We probably all can agree that we learn from our parents, this is how some generational curses are passed down.

A promiscuous mother will likely have a daughter who will be the same and visa versa for men.

What I am trying to say here, this "sin" can be learned.  In any balanced heterosexual relationship, children are likely to follow in their parents example.  With so many broken homes today, what is normal?

Just like a husband that has a dolly for a secretary, even when offered of a silver platter, he can still say no.  When sex becomes the primaforce for a relationship, it is perversion and will lead to misery down the road somewhere.

Heb 13:4  Marriage is honorable in all, and the bed undefiled, but fornicators and adulterers God will judge.

Scripture is pretty silent on what a husband and wife may or may not do.  Anything outside of a one-flesh relationship IMO is perversion, that would include bringing in blue movies to set the tone/atmosphere even though it be only between husband and wife.

Blessings

[firstborn888]

Sex was designed to be pleasurable and apart from apes/monkeys, I think we are the only ones that do it for pleasure as opposed to only for procreation.

Don't know about that. My mom used to breed dogs and they seemed pretty happy about it....

[Cardinal]

Scripture is pretty silent on what a husband and wife may or may not do.  Anything outside of a one-flesh relationship IMO is perversion, that would include bringing in blue movies to set the tone/atmosphere even though it be only between husband and wife.

:cloud9: That's true about the movies, Seeker. My friend that came to the Lord when I did, used to watch those with her ex-husband at his request. When she started having problems with their daughter, God showed her where the spirit came into the daughter at. It was the movies. And it no doubt contributed to his infidelity and abuse of her, in the end. Satan raped and "murdered" Eve in the garden. She "murdered" Adam by what she did, because they were one. That murdering spirit passed down into her seed, and has continued to pass down thru EVERY generation since. Just because it doesn't get life thru expression one way (we have not actually murdered someone), doesn't mean it didn't find expression in another, more subtle way.

Everything we do affects our natural seed. He will not let us take credit even for being "good parents". I have always told my kids there is no such thing as a perfect parent. We do the best we can to walk in what we are shown by God, once we are walking with Him, and that's all we can do. The rest is up to Him.

These principles are WHY we cry out to God for a savior, because the reality is, we have contributed in our hearts, to the sin outside of us, and are just as accountable as they are for all that we see. Blessings to all....

PS: John that hit me about the unforgivable sin. :thumbsup:

[Nancy]

hi there all,
reFORMer that comment about the diapers was a bit facetious i feel as there are people whom God has chosen to be disabled and need diapers for the rest of the lives. They can't change and not use them! And to compare diapers to being gay isn't right.
My husbands good friend is gay and he has 3 brothers and a sister who were brought up exactly the same way as him who are 'normal'.  He didn't tell his family for fear of being ostracised for ages.  They were brought up a strict catholics.  He had no reason to.  When he was younger it was not 'easy' to be gay as it was more frowned upon.  So I don't believe that he CHOSE to be this way.
Also Shibboleth i agree with you about which laws to follow.  Do you know that orthodox Jews cannot wear clothes with two different materials in them.  And have to wear tassels on the ends of their clothes. And mustn't cut their sideboards off, etc, etc, etc.  The Apostle Paul states that women must cover their head when going to church as it is a disgrace not to!!!!! I never did cover my head!!!!

Finally thanks Dean for your encouragement!!!! Appreciate it!
Godbless
Nancy

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Nancy said; "Do you know that orthodox Jews cannot wear clothes with two different materials in them.  And have to wear tassels on the ends of their clothes."

I love His Word.  :winkgrin: We, as the spiritual priesthood, are not supposed to mix "wool" and "linen' either. Wool makes you sweat. Sweat was a curse of Adam to get his bread by the sweat of his brow, so it speaks of the works of the flesh/law over them. Sweat was an offense to God in the sanctuary. Jesus Christ came to reverse the curses. He sweat great drops of blood, because He IS the sanctuary. And linen speaks of the righteousness of the saints, which comes from the HG doing the "works".

There were 4 tassels on the end of their robes, signifying for one thing, that they remember the Lord's commandments in all the corners of their "earth". Blessigns to you......

[Craig]

There are MORAL Laws.
There are CERMONIAL Laws.
There are KOSHER Laws.

Breaking of the KOSHER and CEREMONIAL Laws, results in a person being unclean and unable to participate or socialize with their fellow man. The breaking of the MORAL Laws resulted in death.

To break a kosher or ceremonial law is not sin, that is why Jesus did not sin when He healed on a Sabbath, did not wash his hands before eating, etc. The pharisee is the one who said it was a sin, Jesus knew better.

To confuse the 600+ laws with the Moral Law, is a common mistake.

Do not confuse the ceremonial and kosher laws, with the moral laws. The moral laws make us aware of sin and the penalty of sin. Just because Jesus took upon Himself the curse of the Law and was made sin on behalf of all mankind, taking upon Himself the penalty of sin; does not mean sin is nolonger sin. Sin is sin, even before the law told us it was sin.

Paul, Peter, John and James, made it very clear, that even after Jesus died on the cross and raised from the dead, SIN was still in the world and SIN still exists and SIN still kills.

[Craig]

:cloud9: Nancy said; "Do you know that orthodox Jews cannot wear clothes with two different materials in them.  And have to wear tassels on the ends of their clothes."

I love His Word.  :winkgrin: We, as the spiritual priesthood, are not supposed to mix "wool" and "linen' either. Wool makes you sweat. Sweat was a curse of Adam to get his bread by the sweat of his brow, so it speaks of the works of the flesh/law over them. Sweat was an offense to God in the sanctuary. Jesus Christ came to reverse the curses. He sweat great drops of blood, because He IS the sanctuary. And linen speaks of the righteousness of the saints, which comes from the HG doing the "works".

There were 4 tassels on the end of their robes, signifying for one thing, that they remember the Lord's commandments in all the corners of their "earth". Blessigns to you......

Amen the Kosher and Ceremonial Laws were shadows of the things that were to be in Christ Jesus. Understanding these things is a great revelation. Thanks Cardinal!

[Loveroftruth]

Satan raped and "murdered" Eve in the garden. She "murdered" Adam by what she did, because they were one. That murdering spirit passed down into her seed, and has continued to pass down thru EVERY generation since. Just because it doesn't get life thru expression one way (we have not actually murdered someone), doesn't mean it didn't find expression in another, more subtle way.

Where is the can of worms smilie  :dontknow:
Here it goes, are you talking about the serpant seed here  :dontknow:

[SeekerSA]

There are enough views here for now, the thread is taking on a life of its own hence I am locking it.

Welcome to start new threads wrt to topics raised here.

Blessings