All Flesh (- related to Noah, The Flood)

[jabcat]

OK, maybe so.  That does make sense.  The next age...

[WhiteWings]

I just thought of this though, related to the OP.  Those disobedient in the days of Noah that Jesus went and preached to, and led them out, were apparently in "holding" for awhile?

Was Noach himself also in "holding". He was a good guy but not a follower of Jesus... :dontknow:

[jabcat]

Hmm...interesting question.  No definitive answer, but some thoughts;  I think Noah would be described as obedient, while the ones noted as being held are described as disobedient.  However, since the law doesn't save, what truly saved Noah - and Abraham, and Sarah, and Moses?  Bible says Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him as righteousness.  Some say that the OT "saints" were saved because they "looked forward to the Messiah", in essence, "believed".  Maybe they fit in that group that weren't necessarily being punished, but still were being held until they came face to face with Jesus, their bowing and confessing was instant (recognizing Him and Lord and Savior) and were led out as well?  Hmmm again.   :bigGrin:

[WhiteWings]

I've also been thinking about The Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Could it be that His 'saving power' was already in effect even before Adam was created?
Then the only thing Abraham had to do after his death was to kneel for Jesus.  (Just like anyone that dies today and never heart of Jesus)
:dontknow:

[jabcat]

Good or bad, these are right along the lines of some of the things I've been thinking, except His saving power already being in effect is a bit of newer thought for me, and I think it's intrigueing.  Maybe so!

[WhiteWings]

I thought about it a several times since Cardinal wrote about the exploding cross.
I just had to wait for a thread I could use to spam the idea.

[jabcat]

I missed the exploding cross reference.

I'm reminded of the Dora Van Assen information, her vision of the cross' rays reaching everywhere - all times, all locations, etc.

"In due time, all in Christ".

http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/word_studies/lighthouse_library_international_8571.msg102999.html#msg102999

http://www.lighthouselibrary.com/read.php?sel=6840&searchfor=||VAN%20ASSEN,%20DORA||&type=&what=author

'

[Nathan]

This line of thought also falls in line with the "finished works" of the cross in that everything in the spirit is already completed and fulfilled.  What Jesus did 2000 years ago was simply manifesting in this realm what was already accomplished in the spirit realm.  He said himself that he did nothing on this earth that he didn't already see God the Father doing in heaven.

Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth AS IT IS in heaven.

So . . .in that light, I'd have to say that even though there was no completion of the redemptive work in this realm until Jesus came . . .once the patriarchs passed over into the realm of the spirit, the finished works immediately took affect.

[thinktank]

Let me also think out loud.  I have a belief, that I can't pull exact, specific scriptures for.  I think it's based at least on multiple scrips, trying to "put them together into a whole".  I think of few stripes/many stripes, much given/much required, every knee bow/every tongue confess along with the Lake of Fire being corrective, purifying, bringing to repentance, and then how much correction and "repentance" would a child, a mentally infirm, or a kind softhearted individual who had never even heard of Jesus actually need?  (Or maybe I'm making it up  :mblush:).  But my belief is that some hardened, "evil through and through" individuals' temporary corrective discipline may be of a longer "age" than those mentioned above - the child, infirm, etc.   It may take Hitler a whole lot of "squirming", fighting, corrective punishment before responding to the Spirit with repentance and confession.  Whereas the others may see Jesus, realize who He is, confess Him joyfully.    I may be wrong on this, again, just some "tentative" thoughts.
jabcat


Expanding on your thoughts I don't see how sauls encounter with Jesus would change his heart, so quickly. I think in an infants case it would change very easilly and I think the reason Saul changed so quickly, was because he woke up to who he was, as a chosen vessel to bring the gospel to the nations. If Hitler had a  similar experience to what saul encountered, he would probably be mezmerized and then a week later forget about it and go back to his plans of ruling the world.

But again I do not not know Hitler as to why he did what he did, it seems to be that his henchmen were much more evil than he was, e.g the gestapo and the ss, did a lot of thuggish things.

[Nathan]

Actually, for me, I don't need to know how hard Hitler was . . .I already know how powerful Christ is.  If he doesn't want you to be overcome by the enemy, he'll open oceans for you for dry passage and yet calamity for anyone trying to follow your footsteps.  Yet at the same time, should you run from his calling for you to reach out to others, he'll cause those same waters to come against the very belief system you hide in to keep yourself afloat.  At least until we learn that this great thing God has done is not about us, it's about Him revealing his nature . . .his illumination, his glory . . .love can not be love unless it's manifesting love.  We're merely the recipients, the objects to which he's chosen to express his nature.  He's obssessed with us . . .how cool is that!!

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: The reference to the "exploding cross", was a vision I had where I perceived what I could only call an explosion of the Spirit coming from the cross, and it went in both left and right directions at the same time. I saw all the scenes in the Bible, poured into me rapid fire, both OT and NT scenes sort of at once, and was given understanding on them (He only let me consciously remember one) as they were like "dropped" into my spirit. The ones to my left were OT scenes, the ones to my right, NT scenes. I have recently met someone on Facebook who had a similar vision and experience. I believe the understanding was dropped into my spirit, to be "remembered" in season. Blessings....

[WhiteWings]

Ok, but did it align with my thought (a little)?

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Yes......

[WhiteWings]

Just found an acorn  :bgdance:

[pollypinks]

Saving grace was probably already in effect, however Christ went to those who had passed on to teach them what they should have learned about his ways while they were here and he wasn't.

[Nathan]

I'm not so sure . . .
If his nature comes to us through personal revelation by the Father in this realm, rather than through teaching and instruction, for me, when we pass over into the spirit, all things then become fulfilled in us, including all understanding of who he is, what he's done and all that it entails . . . which would be through spiritual illumination, unveiling, revelation . . . Either way, all who are in the fulness of his completion come to the same destination of who he is in every aspect.

[micah7:9]

Gen 6:8  And Noah found grace in the eyes of Jehovah.

[WhiteWings]

Gen 6:8  And Noah found grace in the eyes of Jehovah.

What do you mean Micah?

That the verse proves grace was already in effect?
(Not arguing. Just asking)

[Nathan]

Hebrews 8
10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:  11And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.  12For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

If teaching ceases in this realm, which is the lowest realm . . . then I don't see it being necessary in the highest realm.  There is no missing the mark once we cross over into the spirit.  There is no unrighteousness, those things only occur in this realm.  Which for me also fits in with the idea of paying a penalty after we're in the spirit . . .after we die . . .for acts that we did while here on earth.  How can God penalize us for something he declares he'll remember no more?

[micah7:9]

Gen 6:8  And Noah found grace in the eyes of Jehovah.

What do you mean Micah?

That the verse proves grace was already in effect?
(Not arguing. Just asking)

Yes. :bigGrin:

[WhiteWings]

Gen 6:8  And Noah found grace in the eyes of Jehovah.

What do you mean Micah?

That the verse proves grace was already in effect?
(Not arguing. Just asking)

Yes. :bigGrin:

Ok earned is not the correct word but by lack of better; Noach earned grace by being a very good man.
Does that mean others not being on the ark also weer given grace?

[Taffy]

Gen 6:9 This is the genealogy of Noah. Noah was a just man, perfect in his generations. Noah walked with God.

Gen 7:1 Then the LORD said to Noah, "Come into the ark, you and all your household, because I have seen that you are righteous before Me in this generation.

For mine this stems back to the Garden and the second BORNof EVE- first the Natural MANN[ OLD MAN] the second[The spiritual Man- NEW MAN-

Note he was PERFECT in his Generations  - Not defiling  himself with those Born after Cain- THE NATURAL man-

ALL men become corrupted after the WAY of CAIN

Gen 6:12-13And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.  (13)  And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.


The ARK and Noah depict salvation- Its another Type and shadow-  :icon_flower:

[WhiteWings]

I dont see grace being "earned" also as it has been revealed to me, Noe found grace in Jehovahs eyes, I believe Noe was seeking. Noe was living in a "bad" time, he was seeking a rest (Noe=rest) and he found it(favour) in Yahwehs eyes, rather than the way I was always taught that Noe was found with grace.

Grace can't be earned. It's just I can't find a better way to explain it.
Let we ask it very directly: Did the the hitler of Noach's time found/recieved grace?

Hope I said that properly the way I wanted to. :bigGrin:

I don't know because I don't know what you wanted to explain  :winkgrin:

[micah7:9]

I dont see grace being "earned" also as it has been revealed to me, Noe found grace in Jehovahs eyes, I believe Noe was seeking. Noe was living in a "bad" time, he was seeking a rest (Noe=rest) and he found it(favour) in Yahwehs eyes, rather than the way I was always taught that Noe was found with grace.

Grace can't be earned. It's just I can't find a better way to explain it.
Let we ask it very directly: Did the the hitler of Noach's time found/recieved grace?

Hope I said that properly the way I wanted to. :bigGrin:

I don't know because I don't know what you wanted to explain  :winkgrin:

My mistake. :sigh:

[WhiteWings]

Why the sad smiley Micah?