Who is satan?

[micah7:9]

I have a need to study just who the adversay is. I do not see that the opponent is a being. I know that
Col 1:16  because in him were the all things created, those in the heavens, and those upon the earth, those visible, and those invisible, whether thrones, whether lordships, whether principalities, whether authorities; all things through him, and for him, have been created,
Col 1:17  and himself is before all, and the all things in him have consisted.
So with that information I must reason that what Im looking into is a thing.
Thing=any matter,circumstance, affair, or concern;often used in plural
Ive posted this again hoping that some will stay on the subject with out wandering to and fro.

APOC the original post  "A sermon at church today prompted a random thought of mine.  Pastor asked what things might we find hard to believe and why, because he was teaching about Thomas' request to see Christ's hands.  I thought about all the observations of Christ, his disciples, angels, miracles and then about the very limited siting of Satan.  I thought, why don't we know more about Satan and who has seen him? 

I'm interested in what studies and conclusions others have made.  Who was Satan, where was he and where is he now?  I can only think of one New Testament siting/depiction. From what I can tell, only Jesus has seen him and conversed in length.  For some reason there are many sermons today about this evil being and yet very little experiences to draw from.


Quote
Matthew 4:1-11 (New International Version)
The Temptation of Jesus

Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil. After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. The tempter came to him and said, "If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread." Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.' "

Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. "If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down. For it is written:
   " 'He will command his angels concerning you,
      and they will lift you up in their hands,
   so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.' "
Jesus answered him, "It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.' "

Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. "All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me." Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.' "  Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him."

[thinktank]

I thought, why don't we know more about Satan and who has seen him? 
micah

:laughing7:  I don't blame you, even God had the same question


Job 1:7   

And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

I know that God, knows where he is but I belive God is showing us, that if he had to ask this question, how can man possibly know his location.

He even asked him again in the same book, to confirm how slippery he was/is

Job 2:2   
And the Lord said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

[Lefein]

I think God asks rhetorically just to make himself giggle at times.  :laughing7:

[Beloved Servant]

Just like Punch and Judy.    :declare:

[Lefein]

Que?

[micah7:9]

"I thought, why don't we know more about Satan and who has seen him? 
micah"

I think we all have Thinktank.

And I dont believe the adversary has changed his MO.

[WhiteWings]

a] Satan is a man -> No man has ever seen God so Satan can't be a man because in he presented himself before God in Job.
b] Satan is the carnal thought of man -> It was mentioned in strong words Father was very pleased with Job; so I think it's very unlikely satan in the next few verses is Job requesting that he can tempt/strike himself
c] Satan is a spirit

[micah7:9]

a] Satan is a man -> No man has ever seen God so Satan can't be a man because in he presented himself before God in Job.
b] Satan is the carnal thought of man -> It was mentioned in strong words Father was very pleased with Job; so I think it's very unlikely satan in the next few verses is Job requesting that he can tempt/strike himself
c] Satan is a spirit

a] I believe that is correct, satan/adversary is not a man.
b] Satan is the carnal thought of man...WW I have reason to begin to understand the adversary better as you have stated.."carnal thought" not the carnal mind, Jesus did not have/could not have a carnal mind, but the carnal thought certainly must have brought itself forward.
c] I keep the thought that the adversary is a "thing," yet I cannot exclude reason that the adversary is a spirit.

[micah7:9]

Keeping the identity of the adversary in mind, when was "the beginning?"

Joh 8:44  `Ye are of a father--the devil, and the desires of your father ye will to do; he was a man-slayer from the beginning, and in the truth he hath not stood, because there is no truth in him; when one may speak the falsehood, of his own he speaketh, because he is a liar--also his father.

It is not a trick question, I, myself, do not see it to be Genesis 1:1 this beginning of the devil. At this point I do not accept the "katabolē" line of thought.

Peace and Love Through Jesus

[WhiteWings]

b] Satan is the carnal thought of man...WW I have reason to begin to understand the adversary better as you have stated.."carnal thought" not the carnal mind, Jesus did not have/could not have a carnal mind, but the carnal thought certainly must have brought itself forward.

For me a carnal thought come from a carnal mind. But I'm aware that statement  is problematic.
Father has no carnal mind. But OTOH I don't think I can outclass Father on any point. He smart enough to have thoughts like me so to speak.
I can't really write down the essence of what I think so try to understand what I'm trying to say instead of over analyzing my words.
I think the problem is not really having a carnal thought but acting to it.
Jesus surely knew what rape and murder is/was. Very likely it was in His prayers. So the idea was really in His head. But He never put those thoughts into practice.
Similar to Father who commanded "Thou shalt not murder." I'm sure enough Father knows all ways of murder that exist. But that doesn't mean He practices all, or even just one, of those murders.
Understand what I mean?

c] I keep the thought that the adversary is a "thing," yet I cannot exclude reason that the adversary is a spirit.

Spirit, entity, ghost, energy cloud, ...
Whatever it is it's very special because it's omni present like God....?
Maybe it's not the 100% correct but because earth is filled with 6.5 billion small and big sinners satan affects many at the same time.

[WhiteWings]

Keeping the identity of the adversary in mind, when was "the beginning?"

Joh 8:44  `Ye are of a father--the devil, and the desires of your father ye will to do; he was a man-slayer from the beginning, and in the truth he hath not stood, because there is no truth in him; when one may speak the falsehood, of his own he speaketh, because he is a liar--also his father.

It is not a trick question, I, myself, do not see it to be Genesis 1:1 this beginning of the devil. At this point I do not accept the "katabolē" line of thought.

Peace and Love Through Jesus

"From the beginning" is useless info in the context of this thread. It simply doesn't give enough info.
Just some views to think about. (not all my views)
a] Satan was created at exactly Gen 1:1. But how can he be a murderer if there is nothing to kill?
b] Satan lived long before Gen 1:1 and knew creation would happen and plotted the destruction of mankind long before Gen 1:1.
c] It was the mind of Adam that was plotting imperfect things from his birth.
d] Likely "the beginning" is Gen 1:1 but the beginning can also be birth. My personal beginning was not at Gen 1:1
e] etc

[micah7:9]

Good thoughts.
I kind of believe that when a living soul awakens(Gen. 2:22) man sees things differently than in(Gen.2:20) man is accutely aware of a "new" sense, and that is revealed in(Gen.3:6) the knowledge of good and evil, an ingniting happens, that ignition causes an act of reason and choice, and the truth, the mind of man is carnal the choice is made. Jesus was in the likeness of sinfull flesh but His mind was not carnal, thus He would not could not fall into the thoughts. And when we have the mind of Christ, we as well cannot fall into the thoughts [the thoughts do come around, like the fowls of the air.]

I cant put it into words properly either, but I suggest that it is this igniting and ignition, is the adversary.

[micah7:9]

Keeping the identity of the adversary in mind, when was "the beginning?"

Joh 8:44  `Ye are of a father--the devil, and the desires of your father ye will to do; he was a man-slayer from the beginning, and in the truth he hath not stood, because there is no truth in him; when one may speak the falsehood, of his own he speaketh, because he is a liar--also his father.

It is not a trick question, I, myself, do not see it to be Genesis 1:1 this beginning of the devil. At this point I do not accept the "katabolē" line of thought.

Peace and Love Through Jesus

"From the beginning" is useless info in the context of this thread. It simply doesn't give enough info.
Just some views to think about. (not all my views)
a] Satan was created at exactly Gen 1:1. But how can he be a murderer if there is nothing to kill?
b] Satan lived long before Gen 1:1 and knew creation would happen and plotted the destruction of mankind long before Gen 1:1.
c] It was the mind of Adam that was plotting imperfect things from his birth.
d] Likely "the beginning" is Gen 1:1 but the beginning can also be birth. My personal beginning was not at Gen 1:1
e] etc

I almost believe that the "beginning" was Gen. 2:8 "...  and He setteth there the man whom He hath formed;"
up until that time  nothing had begun to live other than man until Gen. 2:9 "and Jehovah God causeth to sprout...." Now we can begin to see where murder is becoming a possibility.
Gen. chapter one is [I believe is Spirit, spoken, and propehetic]
My  :2c:

[Lefein]

Death is what causes sin, fallen man has a fallen mind that does fallen actions through its fallen flesh.  Hence sin is everywhere, seemingly.

Satan has many servants - a third of the innumerable angels.

Satan isn't a metaphor, and he isn't a god (omnipresent) - he is a created, limited being.  Unless the Bible is full of myths, fables, and metaphors...at which point we may as well give up on even believing.  I say this, because we need to be able to "read with simple childlike understanding".  We can't get picky and choosy over who is a metaphoric personification, and who is not; just to suit our whim and fancy.  God talked to Satan [An individual called The Adversary], as God talked to Job, as God talked to Gideon, as God talked to Ezekiel, as God talked to Jesus, as God talked to Enoch, as God talked to Elijah.  Is Gideon a metaphor?  Is Elijah?  Is Enoch? (no they are not, lets keep to scriptural consistency then, and follow the pattern for when God talks to The Adversary)

Satan is a spirit, most likely an angel.  Angel is a term of office; Messenger, that became the de-facto name for the spirit-beings that are given the office of Messenger.  What ever "spiritual species" Angels are, Satan is most likely one of them.

It gets dangerously close to Eastern Philosophy, and New Age to call Satan the anthropomorphic personification of Carnality in the human being.  It also doesn't make sense scripturally.

There is indeed a carnal self - The Flesh.  But Satan [The Individual called The Adversary] is not "The Flesh".  Adam and Eve fell, disobedience, etc...you know the account.  Someone had to introduce Death to Adam and Eve, an outside force "The Serpent" did this, not Eve's self, her self merely followed the outside introduction.

"We are all dead, but someone had to kill us, or convince us to kill ourselves"

[micah7:9]

Satan is a spirit, I have to agree with you here, a spirit; but "thing" works for me as well, most likely an angel.
messenger fits the bill.
  Angel is a term of office; angel is the greek spelling of messenger.

Messenger, that became the de-facto name for the spirit-beings that are given the office of Messenger.  What ever "spiritual species" Angels are, Satan is most likely one of them. 
I dont know about being a being tho.

A messenger brings a messeaage.

It gets dangerously close to Eastern Philosophy, and New Age to call Satan the anthropomorphic personification of Carnality in the human being.  It also doesn't make sense scripturally.
Now this here is scripture.
Gen 2:19  And Jehovah God formeth from the ground every beast of the field,
Gen 3:1  And the serpent hath been subtile above every beast of the field
Ecc 3:18  I said in my heart concerning the matter of the sons of man that God might cleanse them, so as to see that they themselves are beasts.

[WhiteWings]

Good thoughts.
I kind of believe that when a living soul awakens(Gen. 2:22) man sees things differently than in(Gen.2:20) man is accutely aware of a "new" sense, and that is revealed in(Gen.3:6) the knowledge of good and evil, an ingniting happens, that ignition causes an act of reason and choice, and the truth, the mind of man is carnal the choice is made. Jesus was in the likeness of sinfull flesh but His mind was not carnal, thus He would not could not fall into the thoughts. And when we have the mind of Christ, we as well cannot fall into the thoughts [the thoughts do come around, like the fowls of the air.]

I cant put it into words properly either, but I suggest that it is this igniting and ignition, is the adversary.

Lemme see if I understand you.
It's said/written that we are veiled and/or looking trough a glass darkly. Every time we take a step closer to Father a veil gets removed.
So was eating of the tree the first veil?
Before the eating Adam was so far away from Father he didn't even know what good and evil was.
After that people knew good and evil but often never really cared about it....
So when the first veil was removed ignition took place.
Is that what you mean

[Lefein]

If he isn't a being, how can he talk?  Rocks don't talk, or lie.  Satan lies, it takes an act of personhood to lie, since a lie is an active misdirection from truth.

Gen 2:19  And Jehovah God formeth from the ground every beast of the field,
Gen 3:1  And the serpent hath been subtile above every beast of the field
Ecc 3:18  I said in my heart concerning the matter of the sons of man that God might cleanse them, so as to see that they themselves are beasts.

Genesis 2:18, 3:1 - chith e'shde = animal of the field.
Ecc 3:18 - beme = beast

We are beasts, as is Satan, it takes quite a beastial person to inspire hate, sin, strife, and lies.  We are, or were just like our father the devil.  Beasts have beasts for babies...baby beasts indeed.

But that doesn't mean that The Adversary is a numinous essence, or anthropomorphic personification of our evil side.  He is not the black, or yin inside of us.

[WhiteWings]

 

Death is what causes sin,

Isn't it the other way around?
The wages of sin is death. Not: The wages of dead is sin. ?


fallen man has a fallen mind that does fallen actions through its fallen flesh.  Hence sin is everywhere, seemingly.

Satan has many servants - a third of the innumerable angels.

Satan isn't a metaphor, and he isn't a god (omnipresent) - he is a created, limited being.

Satan is the god of this age (world).

YLT2Cor 4
4 in whom the god of this age did blind the minds of the unbelieving, that there doth not shine forth to them the enlightening of the good news of the glory of the Christ, who is the image of God;

Unless the Bible is full of myths, fables, and metaphors...at which point we may as well give up on even believing.  I say this, because we need to be able to "read with simple childlike understanding".  We can't get picky and choosy over who is a metaphoric personification, and who is not; just to suit our whim and fancy.

I see it a little different.
It's clear satan is the bad dude. That's childlike understanding. And enough.
But that doesn't mean there is a next level that shows what/who satan is. No matter what the answer is satan is still the bad dude from the childlike understanding.
Math at uni is different than math taught to 6 year olds. But it doesn't conflict.

[Lefein]

When I say he isn't a god, I say he isn't a supreme being; Omnipresent.

Baal is a god, but we both know he's just a bit of gold covered wood or stone.  If that makes sense.

Isn't it the other way around?
The wages of sin is death. Not: The wages of dead is sin. ?

1Co 15:56  The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law

I see it a little different.
It's clear satan is the bad dude. That's childlike understanding. And enough.
But that doesn't mean there is a next level that show what/who satan is. No matter what the answer is satan is still the bad dude from the childlike understanding.
Math at uni is different than math taught to 6 year olds. But it doesn't conflict.

But at no point in math does 1 ever become pi.  (1=1 pi=pi)

It isn't a good idea to attribute more power, or identity to Satan that what he is.  I am Lefein, I'll never be the anthropomorphic personification of a man's desire to burp when he has a gas bubble - that's just nature.  In the same way Satan is The Adversary, but he'll never be the anthropomorphic personification of a man's desire to sin.

He is as far as the scripture shows; The Catalyst of Evil (father of lies), Adversary, and Accuser of the brethren.

[micah7:9]

When I say he isn't a god, I say he isn't a supreme being; Omnipresent.

Baal is a god, but we both know he's just a bit of gold covered wood or stone.  If that makes sense.

Isn't it the other way around?
The wages of sin is death. Not: The wages of dead is sin. ?

1Co 15:56  The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law

I see it a little different.
It's clear satan is the bad dude. That's childlike understanding. And enough.
But that doesn't mean there is a next level that show what/who satan is. No matter what the answer is satan is still the bad dude from the childlike understanding.
Math at uni is different than math taught to 6 year olds. But it doesn't conflict.

But at no point in math does 1 ever become pi.  (1=1 pi=pi)

It isn't a good idea to attribute more power, or identity to Satan that what he is.  I am Lefein, I'll never be the anthropomorphic personification of a man's desire to burp when he has a gas bubble - that's just nature.  In the same way Satan is The Adversary, but he'll never be the anthropomorphic personification of a man's desire to sin.

He is as far as the scripture shows; The Catalyst of Evil (father of lies), Adversary, and Accuser of the brethren.

Psa 82:6  I said, Ye are gods, And all of you sons of the Most High.
Psa 82:7  Nevertheless ye shall die like men, And fall like one of the princes.

[Lefein]

But we aren't supreme beings.

Alas, I wish English had more precise terms.

[micah7:9]

Good thoughts.
I kind of believe that when a living soul awakens(Gen. 2:22) man sees things differently than in(Gen.2:20) man is accutely aware of a "new" sense, and that is revealed in(Gen.3:6) the knowledge of good and evil, an ingniting happens, that ignition causes an act of reason and choice, and the truth, the mind of man is carnal the choice is made. Jesus was in the likeness of sinfull flesh but His mind was not carnal, thus He would not could not fall into the thoughts. And when we have the mind of Christ, we as well cannot fall into the thoughts [the thoughts do come around, like the fowls of the air.]

I cant put it into words properly either, but I suggest that it is this igniting and ignition, is the adversary.

Lemme see if I understand you.
It's said/written that we are veiled and/or looking trough a glass darkly. Every time we take a step closer to Father a veil gets removed.
So was eating of the tree the first veil?
Before the eating Adam was so far away from Father he didn't even know what good and evil was.
After that people knew good and evil but often never really cared about it....
So when the first veil was removed ignition took place.
Is that what you mean

Im learning here myself, thank you Lord.  As for mans aptitude before Gen. 3... man was charged not eat of the tree, he was told he would "die" if he did. I do not believe that could have meant to much to man, he had no knowledge of what death was, did he?
I dont believe man was far from the Lord God, man was, he was a living soul, he was the first and was almost where he was going to begin his "death walk."

[micah7:9]

But we aren't supreme beings.

Alas, I wish English had more precise terms.

Where did the supreme beings come from?
Psa 82:6  I said, Ye are gods, This says nothing about "supreme beings." I can see that at time I "felt" like I was a god. Gods have power to do things and sometime the things that men do make them feel like gods and some even act like gods. I dont think it strange at all.  I have this knowledge Deu 6:4  `Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah;

[Lefein]

I wanted my point about the Satan/god of this age thing to be perfectly clarified.

[micah7:9]

I wanted my point about the Satan/god of this age thing to be perfectly clarified.

Where do I find satan is the god of this world/age?