Rebuiding of the Temple unscriptural?

[Beloved Servant]

Outer Court, Inner Court, Holy of Holies
     Faith            Hope         and Love

[Nathan]

And the greatest of these???  love/holy of holies . . .intimacy.

[Nathan]

Back a few posts to Molly's question pertaining to the veils . . there were actually three.  One led into the outer court, the second led into the temple itself, the third led into the holy of holies.  It's all patterned after "God" who manifests in three major dimensions in the Father, Son and Spirit.

Inside the temple, there was a section called the "holy of holies," where the priest entered once a year, and where the ark was located, at least in the temple of Solomon; the holy of holies was separated from the other section of the temple by an elaborate curtain or veil, and this veil was rent when Jesus died; Hebrews suggests it represents Christ's flesh.

Hebrews 10:19-20
Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

It only takes one curtain to separate an enclosed space into two sections; when the veil that separated the holy of holies from the other parts of the temple was rent, the way was symbolically open for all Israel to enter in to the very presence of God.

Paul also talks about another barrier, the "wall of partition," that kept Gentiles or unclean folk from entering the inner courts and the temple itself, being broken down; this concept symbolically showed that the Gentiles who believed in Christ were now allowed to enter into the areas of the temple that were previously only permitted to those who were circumcised in the flesh; they were circumcised in the heart, and did not require the outward fleshly rite of circumcision to become Abraham's children and heirs of the promises, like Isaac.

The wall of partition was not a curtain or a veil, but a low wall, presumably having one or more gates, which may have been guarded or monitored. Certainly there were signs posted warning Gentiles against entering.

So, the temple had a veil, and a wall of partition, which created three areas; (1) the outer court where Gentiles were permitted to enter, (2) the temple proper and inner courts where Israelites only could enter, and (3) the holy of holies that was behind the veil, where only the high priest could go.

If you have some scriptures to defend your idea that there were "three veils," I would be interested in seeing the evidence for it. Also, your suggestion about such veils representing three "dimensions," i.e., Father, Son and Spirit, seems alien to the OT, IMO.

Doug

Who are the Two Witnesses?

Sorry, I don't use Scripture as a defense of anything.  It's what I see because of where I am, nothing more, nothing less.

[Beloved Servant]

:cloud9: Sounds familiar doesn't it, since we're basically a tent covered with skin and cloth.

Which makes me think even more that the skins God covered Adam with, was this same temporary dwelling place we're walking around in, a tent of flesh. Blessings.....

He hedged us in.

A tent within a tent.

A garden within a garden.

A Chariot of Fire.

[Nathan]

:cloud9: Sounds familiar doesn't it, since we're basically a tent covered with skin and cloth.

Which makes me think even more that the skins God covered Adam with, was this same temporary dwelling place we're walking around in, a tent of flesh. Blessings.....

Don't know for sure how I missed this one Card . . .but thank you for posting this.  You're the only other person I know of that has seen this as well.  It's always been "assumed" that it was the animal skins that apparently God sacrificed . . .to himself?  On behalf of Adam and Eve's sin.  It was supposedly to replace their attempt to cover themselves with fig leaves. 

But I beleive it had to do with them leaving a spiritual realm and passing into a natural one.  Man has had to live in the disorder of Adam ever since.  But only according to our flesh.  When we walk in the spirit, we can return back to the garden, the spirit of Eden.  Even though our bodies are conformed to the laws of the natural realm . .we're born, we live, we die . . .all the process of life in the natural.  Death rules this realm, but Life rules the spirit realm.  We can walk in the life of his Light while still passing through this realm of death . . .yea tho I walk through the shadow of death . . .the shadow of death is simply my experiences through life in this realm . . .I will fear no evil for you are with me in this realm of death yet I walk in resurrection. 

Yes and amen.

[eaglesway]

 :2c: When death severed Adam the effect was like unplugging my laptop. The little green light in the power reservoir stays on for awhile but eventually it goes out. When someone reconnects to God through Christ the lil green light comes back on, the severing undone, the breach repaired, the power restored. When death is swallowed up by immortality the body will be spiritual- Paul says it is sown natural...it is raised spiritual. John says we know not yet what we shall be, but we know that we shall be like Him. Jesus testified that He was not only spirit- saying that " a spirit has not flesh and bones as you now see I do". He ate some fish, and He passed through a wall.

Maybe the fish slid down the wall if it was still in His hand when He left the room  :icon_jokercolor:.

   At any rate- there are so many things we see through a glass darkly, but the resurrection of the body is like a time marker on the completion of the pledge on our sonship inheritance. Even as Jesus was "declared a son by  resurrection from the dead" so also we will be declared sons, by the redemption of our bodies. What we have now is the Spirit- the down payment guaranteeing the purchased possession.

In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge/earnest of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory.
(Eph 1:13-14)


Luk 24:39  Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

who was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord,
(Rom 1:4)


Rom 8:23  And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body.

1Co 15:42  So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body

For we know that if the earthly tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For indeed in this house we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven, inasmuch as we, having put it on, will not be found naked. For indeed while we are in this tent, we groan, being burdened, because we do not want to be unclothed but to be clothed, so that what is mortal will be swallowed up by life. Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge.
(2Co 5:1-5)

[Beloved Servant]

:cloud9: Sounds familiar doesn't it, since we're basically a tent covered with skin and cloth.

Which makes me think even more that the skins God covered Adam with, was this same temporary dwelling place we're walking around in, a tent of flesh. Blessings.....

Don't know for sure how I missed this one Card . . .but thank you for posting this.  You're the only other person I know of that has seen this as well.  It's always been "assumed" that it was the animal skins that apparently God sacrificed . . .to himself?  On behalf of Adam and Eve's sin.  It was supposedly to replace their attempt to cover themselves with fig leaves. 

But I beleive it had to do with them leaving a spiritual realm and passing into a natural one.  Man has had to live in the disorder of Adam ever since.  But only according to our flesh.  When we walk in the spirit, we can return back to the garden, the spirit of Eden.  Even though our bodies are conformed to the laws of the natural realm . .we're born, we live, we die . . .all the process of life in the natural.  Death rules this realm, but Life rules the spirit realm.  We can walk in the life of his Light while still passing through this realm of death . . .yea tho I walk through the shadow of death . . .the shadow of death is simply my experiences through life in this realm . . .I will fear no evil for you are with me in this realm of death yet I walk in resurrection. 

Yes and amen.

" You're the only other person I know of that has seen this as well."

Ummmm... Nathan — are you sure you're not missing someone???

[Nathan]

Oops . . .sorry, should have worded that one a little differently. :Oops: :punish: :doh:

[Beloved Servant]

Y'know,
There was a thread, or at least part of a thread, about this topic sometime ago.
I think the member CHB was in on it and we were far out numbered by those who think otherwise.
Most seem to think we're wearing lambskin, and in a Christ we are, but in the natural it's just Adam's thick hide that was made apparent.



p.s.
No apology necessary, I'm just teasing.

[eaglesway]

   Even as anyone who believes Messiah passes from death into life; So also Adam passed from life into death- for death reigned from Adam to Christ. I have always though the flaming sword that guards the entrance to the garden (realm of life) is the sword that comes out of His mouth, living and active.... the flames that are in His eyes.... the fire that consumes the adversaries. If we are carnal we are "cast out" and are "dead even as we live". If we are spiritual "the veil is removed" and we "walk in the light as He is in the light and have koinonea(union/harmony/fellowship) together.

There is a verse somewhere something like "I will be a wall of fire surrounding Zion". Well, a wall of fire keeps the ones "inside" protected, yet they had to "pass through the fire" to get in.

As we "press on to know the Lord" and "press on towards the mark of the prize of the upward call of God in Christ" we go through the trials that are for the "purifying of our faith which is more precious than gold tried in the fire". We purchase of Him gold tried in the fire. We receive the "crown of life" and as overcomers, are re-admitted into the paradise of God.

Rev 2:7  He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

[thinktank]

how much time do you think we have left?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJhaFzij7a8


I think that God can do things according to his timing. E.g we are living in times of technological progress and this is becoming to hot to handle for sinfull man. So if you are worried we can in fact pray that God destroys technological progress, I belive God can do this as he also confused the people of babylon and stopped them from building a tower to heaven by confusing their language, so God can also confuse the mind of scientists to stop them from creating evil inventions. This will give us more time and for future generations to live in a free world and witness people to christ. :2c:

[Molly]

I just have two words for the temple rebuilders: pathological narcissism.


'I have always harboured an exaggerated view of my self-importance,' he wrote. 'To put it bluntly, I fancied myself as some kind of god or an economic reformer like Keynes, or, even better, like Einstein. My sense of reality was strong enough to make me realise that these expectations were excessive, and I kept them hidden as a guilty secret. This was a source of considerable unhappiness through much of my adult life. As I made my way in the world, reality came close enough to my fantasy to allow me to admit my secret, at least to myself. Needless to say, I feel much happier as a result.'"
--George Soros

[Cardinal]

 :sigh: Looks like ole George certainly fits the two words....

[Molly]

"It is sort of a disease when you consider yourself some kind of God, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out."

--George Soros

[Quaesitor]

Sorry I had to  :hijacked: but something Nathan said in the first few posts really blessed me and put words on something I felt but was unable to explain, had to share.
Thank you Nathan!

Tony, I read "portions" of the website . . .and the more I read, the more it felt like chains were being wrapped around me.  I know that sounds like I'm over dramatizing it but there "is" this "binding" feeling when I read articles that want me to relive a part of my life that's in my past.

Nice discussion overall, keep it up guys.
:happygrin:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9:  :hijacked:  :laughing7: Not overdramatizing.....that's another hidden precept. Those bindings are soul ties trying to take ahold again for the purpose of pulling us back into the grave (flesh). Same as the bindings that were burned on the 3 Hebrew children when the true fire came on the scene. Same as Jacob (the flesh/heel catcher) taking hold of the last part of us as we ascend to walk in the Spirit in heavenly places. Same as the "goodly Babylonianish garment", that when you run it down, means, VINE, ie. something that chokes the life out of the good seed that was planted.

A friend and I were allowed to literally feel them "snap" off us one time when He was sending us somewhere against a lot of opposition from family members, ect. Blessings....

[eaglesway]

Same as the "grave cloth" that the disciples unwrapped from Lazarus when He was raised from the dead. :nod:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Amen Eaglesway, I just love it when you speak my language, LOL.... :icon_jokercolor:   :thumbsup:

[Quaesitor]

So much for those theologians accusing us of seeing spiritual symbolism where we should only understand with the flesh. :thumbdown:

Amen to both of you! :thumbsup:

[eaglesway]

I feel a snap every now and then.....sort of like your ears popping when you are going higher! :boydance:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: And this, and many other reasons, is why we're called heretics  :winkgrin: :laughing7: It's like we're living the opening of the original Star Trek, ie. going where no man has gone before (cept Christ) LOL Blessings....

[eaglesway]

Amen!


but just as it is written, "THINGS WHICH EYE HAS NOT SEEN AND EAR HAS NOT HEARD, AND which HAVE NOT ENTERED THE HEART OF MAN, ALL THAT GOD HAS PREPARED FOR THOSE WHO LOVE HIM." For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God.
(1Co 2:9-10)



ENGAGE!

[Nathan]

I just went through another bees nest this week with an email loop that must have upwards of 30 or 40 people on it that are connected through a Wisconsin church and a various network of friends and relatives with people of that church . . .at any rate, I'd responded to something I saw in one of their daily Scripture verses they post to all on the list and that led to one of them asking me a question  . .oh . .the subject was dealing with hell by the way . . .and the question was to have me explain the rich man and Lazarus passage . . yeah, I know, that one's been hit pretty hard on this forum . .but they still use it for their defense and doctrinal platform. 

So I shared in my usual, short-version (as if) way and I'd made a comment pertaining to that particular story being more of what we'd consider a fable-type story than anything else (I think I actually heard that from here first). . .that must have hit a nerve because after that, emails started flying all over the place.  I did, however, get a good number of emails of encouragment, but it all goes back to what you guys are sharing here about how people  . .one . . .don't want to remove the grave clothes.  And two, if someone does have them removed, they're quickly black-balled by those that are still bound by them.  It seems to be a never-ending cycle.

[Lefein]

It takes a brave man to Live...but any coward can die.

[Quaesitor]

I'm with you Nathan but as we go from victory to victory, our spirit is uplifted to be abe to have part in the sufferings of Christ!
That's what I've been experiencing amidst all these theological discussions, it is easy to see who is confused about what they THINK they believe, while my mind is at peace being infused with life by the Spirit of Truth, it is really a blessing to have part in these persecutions.

On that note, a brother, in yet another discussion, quoted a verse which said that those preaching the truth were persecuted. I asked: are you persecuted Alex?
Because I am.
And I never was before.

You are a blessing Nathan, may God work more and more through you for His glory, shine like the sun my friend!