Accusations

[Quaesitor]

I've been accused of softening the Gospel because I'm afraid of people's rejection.

That doesn't take into acount that preaching Salvation for ALL brings rejection from those we love as brothers and sisters in Christ.

[Lefein]

I've been accused of softening the Gospel because I'm afraid of people's rejection.

So according to their "unsoftened Gospel", God is a harsh god of war, famine, and pestilence, the Judaic Zeus that must be appeased lest he call down the lightning upon us quivering mortals?

If I where an Atheist...I'd be much more inclined to love;

The God of peace, tranquility of spirit, abundance, grace, truth, love, life, and blessings for all, who carries with him the joy of good truth for every man, woman, and child, with out regards for their person - the god of a better kind of equality, with whom fear is not needed to coerce his followers, but Love alone is his yoke, who changes me from the inside out by the flowing of truth, love, and life, who is always with me, never forsaking me, who has a plan to rescue every last person out of this rotting world, and bring them to a good land flowing with milk, and honey.

Rather than the Judaic Zeus, who demands the sacrifice of praise, and coerces us by the fear of Hell-fire, demanding our allegiance, and loyalty to his sovereign scepter - so that we might enjoy the wealth to come (if by being good in our servitude to his majesty the Deity we may obtain greater rewards than merely being allowed to live) when he shall go forth in deitous conquest to subdue the earth, and caste every enemy into Eternal Damnation while his blood stained angels lift their gleaming, crimson dripping, divine flame encrusted swords letting loose war howls in languages only known to Heaven, singing cruelly, with mocking tones; Glory, Glory, Glory! of their slaughter of man, earth, and beast.  Celebrating their swiftest victory yet, over pitiful mortal man who didn't stand a chance, who by ignorance, and by their own fallen natures - natures they where not subjected to by choice, had aligned themselves with a Devil who by some sheer twist of reasoning is somehow twice as evil than the Judaic Zeus, and twice as powerful, able to draw the vast score of mankind, these ignorant mortals over to his side through far more efficient means of fear, temptation, and pain in the now...or else by the promise of power.

It isn't a matter of softening the Gospel...It is not you who are softening the Gospel because you are a gentle spirit, or else afraid of people's "rejection".  It is they who have in fact, hardened it!  Turning the soft, loving heart of God, and his Gospel into a stone-cold, frozen, hateful gospel that rejects , setting up a cruel god that like his gospel rejects, and is so by the people they try to reach with it! Rejected!

No one bows willingly to be made into slaves.  But all will bow down to Love when Love has filled them with himself!

I'd rather be accused of softening the Gospel because I love the Lord my God who is Love - than to be accused of setting up an idol of a Judaic Zeus (who is more like Molech) and being the enslaved concubine of the cold god of Rejection and Hate...

[Nathan]

Stand back and look at the bigger picture of what they're doing by accusing you in the first place.  By telling you you're doctrine is to much "this" or not enough "that". . .are they not in one form or another "defending" their own doctrine?  That's pretty much what transpires when believers begin to argue with each other about what's being seen. 

The reason I bring this point up is due to what Jesus said to Peter when Peter tried to defend him . .several times.  The first time, Jesus called him an adversary, the next time was when Peter whacked a guys ear off and Jesus told him to put his sword (the word) away and let the invisible realm take care of it.

Truth needs no defense.  Clarity perhaps, but once it becomes clear that your point has been made and the argument continues, it's best to just back out of it rather than become the problem as well.

They're telling you, you're soft, because they see God as a judge and they also love to quote "vengeance is mine . . . ."  which means that God'll beat the person up "his" way.  Because "it's a terrible thing to be left in the hands of God . . ."  Another favorite quote they use.

It's all religious defense.  Continue to plant your seeds of life and don't let their clouded understanding of that life affect you.

[WhiteWings]

I've been accused of softening the Gospel because I'm afraid of people's rejection.

It's always a bad think to make good news(=Gospel) sound good....

BTW Gospel is also a verb.

[WhiteWings]

It isn't a matter of softening the Gospel...

It's removing what was added.

It is not you who are softening the Gospel because you are a gentle spirit, or else afraid of people's "rejection".  It is they who have in fact, hardened it!

Exactly. Burned beyond recognition.

than to be accused of setting up an idol of a Judaic Zeus (who is more like Molech)

And looks exactly like Paul.

[Quaesitor]

Well, that guy, who is a brother I love and supported when everyone wanted hid head, brought it to the pastor of the church I go because he wrote me an email and asked that we meet to discuss these things.

Pray for me brothers and sisters I think my time is up in this baptist association.

[Nathan]

Go in love bro.  Let them go through their relgious rant and should they set you free then embrace it and them.

[Quaesitor]

Thank you,

I'll go in the Spirit and only answer what the Spirit lay on my heart.

[Nathan]

I'd love to hear how it goes for ya if you don't mind sharing.

[Quaesitor]

Sure I'll keep you all informed.

In fact it started on facebook when I posted Lefein's post on Death which is filled by Life.
I translated it and posted it, knewing well that this kind of post would bring division.

Then a brother accused me of softening the Gospel and also of preaching heresies without my church leaders knowing about it which is said was wrong.

Then the pastor of the church, who I love dearly, said we had to meet and discuss (it a sure thing that he has been told by the first brother because that pastor never goes on facebook.)

And then the anathema started flying around.

I've not been called by anyone so far so I don't know when I'll meet with him but knowing him, I know it'll be in respect and love even if he has to kick me out. :winkgrin:

The worst thing about it is that not one of them had any kind of answer agaisnt Lefein's post. :mshock:

[Nathan]

I'm kinda in the same boat as you with minor changes . .one, I'm a pastor, two we're not Baptist, we're Pentecostal.  But it doesn't matter, they're just as appalled.  I'd openned up to a fellow Pastor who was asking about the spiritual things I'd share from time to time and one thing led to another and then the word "univeralism" popped up . . .by him, not me.

I told him I'm not a universalist fully, but I do beleive they're a lot closer to the truth of things than our traditional values.  Now when he posts on his face book, he posts warnings about an evil false doctrine that's infiltraiting in the church called "universalism".  Except he says that it basically means that you think your so spiritual that you go to heaven . .it didn't make much sense to me. 

I sent him a private message . .oh and he also stated that it takes away the power from the cross.  I couldn't help but let out a bit of a gag on that one because that's my beef agianst traditional thinking.  They're the ones that take the power from the cross and give it to the mind of man.  I beleive God is returning us back to the original power source by allowing us to see that as dark as people are, his light is brighter by far.

So far, he hasn't indicated he's going to go to my/our superiors, but he did advise me I should take my concerns to the president of the denomination . . .er I mean association.  They don't like being called a denomination . . .frankly I don't see any difference what so ever.  But I never responded back to him at all about that because that'd be ministarial suicide.

I believe God called me to where I am right now to do what I'm doing where I'm doing it.  I'm not about to throw in the towel voluntarily.  There are only two ways I'll step down from the pulpit now. One is, if the same voice that called me, releases me, and two is . . .if they come in and take away my license.  Outside of that, I'm staying where I am.

[Beloved Servant]

Interesting keywords Nathan:
superiors
president
association
license

[Lefein]

Sure I'll keep you all informed.

In fact it started on facebook when I posted Lefein's post on Death which is filled by Life.
I translated it and posted it, knewing well that this kind of post would bring division.

Oh? :D  Horray! God's using me! ^_^

But now I'm curious about what they said about it, lol.

Then a brother accused me of softening the Gospel and also of preaching heresies without my church leaders knowing about it which is said was wrong.

Hmmn...Sorry if my post got you in trouble ^^' lol.  But, I guess that just makes us sharing partakers in this accusation. *hugs*

But how is it a heresy?  Its based on biblical principles, and (spiritually backed) logical reasoning (the good kind, where 1+1=2, and a=a), and it was a revelation too...

Then the pastor of the church, who I love dearly, said we had to meet and discuss (it a sure thing that he has been told by the first brother because that pastor never goes on facebook.)

That's kinda like tattle taleing though isn't it?

And then the anathema started flying around.

I'm sorry. :(

I've not been called by anyone so far so I don't know when I'll meet with him but knowing him, I know it'll be in respect and love even if he has to kick me out.

I just hope Christ waters the seed you planted. :)

The worst thing about it is that not one of them had any kind of answer agaisnt Lefein's post.

Awww!  And I was curious to know what they'd say about it...

Well, I suppose its true, a friend of mine when I shared it with him said:

"How did they react to that?"

"Its something that you'd have to either say "Yeah" to or "*grumble grumble*"

[Quaesitor]

I'm not a pastor - whatever that means- but I did preach from time to time...I guess that's over in that place.

I had a brother defending me though. He made a great comment about how is not believing in hell changing the gospel. He said: Is the gospel about hell?

I answered by saying that I believe Jesus Christ is dead for the sins of the world, that he was raised on the 3rd day and that whosoever believe in Him has Life and those who don't believe have death.
In fact, since I believe in the Salvation of all, I really understand the cross, it made so less sense before.

[Quaesitor]

Sure I'll keep you all informed.

In fact it started on facebook when I posted Lefein's post on Death which is filled by Life.
I translated it and posted it, knewing well that this kind of post would bring division.

Oh? :D  Horray! God's using me! ^_^

But now I'm curious about what they said about it, lol.

Then a brother accused me of softening the Gospel and also of preaching heresies without my church leaders knowing about it which is said was wrong.

Hmmn...Sorry if my post got you in trouble ^^' lol.  But, I guess that just makes us sharing partakers in this accusation. *hugs*

But how is it a heresy?  Its based on biblical principles, and (spiritually backed) logical reasoning (the good kind, where 1+1=2, and a=a), and it was a revelation too...

Then the pastor of the church, who I love dearly, said we had to meet and discuss (it a sure thing that he has been told by the first brother because that pastor never goes on facebook.)

That's kinda like tattle taleing though isn't it?

And then the anathema started flying around.

I'm sorry. :(

I've not been called by anyone so far so I don't know when I'll meet with him but knowing him, I know it'll be in respect and love even if he has to kick me out.

I just hope Christ waters the seed you planted. :)

The worst thing about it is that not one of them had any kind of answer agaisnt Lefein's post.

Awww!  And I was curious to know what they'd say about it...

Well, I suppose its true, a friend of mine when I shared it with him said:

"How did they react to that?"

"Its something that you'd have to either say "Yeah" to or "*grumble grumble*"

*Hugs back*

Yeah, they don't have answers to it because it's Truth. Only thing I got was that death was defeated only for the believer...talk about heresy.

[Lefein]

See: Romans 5, for a wealth of weaponry for this whole issue. :)

Who are Christians...to argue with God's word itself? ;)

And then there is...

Rom 7:24  O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Rom 8:2  For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Rom 8:6  For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

1Co 15:26  The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

1Co 15:55  O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

1Co 15:56  The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

2Co 1:9  But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead:

2Co 1:10  Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us;

2Co 4:10  Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.

2Co 4:11  For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.

2Co 4:12  So then death worketh in us, but life in you.

Php 2:8  And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Php 2:9  Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

Php 2:10  That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Php 2:11  And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

2Ti 1:10  But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

Heb 2:9  But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Jesus allowed himself to die, to taste death, so that like a knight entering the lair of a dragon, may slay it forever and leave it dead in its cave.  You have to enter death, in order to kill it, because you have to enter into absence in order to fill it.

1Jn 3:14  We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

If you don't love your brothers, you aren't full of love, if you aren't full of love, you aren't full of God (God is love) if you aren't full of God, who is Love, you aren't full of Life, for Jesus is God, who is Life, Truth, Love, and the way to these things.  If you aren't full of Love, you are absent of Love, and are therefore, abiding in death!

[Quaesitor]

If you don't love your brothers, you aren't full of love, if you aren't full of love, you aren't full of God (God is love) if you aren't full of God, who is Love, you aren't full of Life, for Jesus is God, who is Life, Truth, Love, and the way to these things.  If you aren't full of Love, you are absent of Love, and are therefore, abiding in death!

Amen!
:thumbsup:

[Quaesitor]

So for those following my story with the Quebec baptist association and the MAtane church, here are the latest news.

I've met with 2 men today, Maurice the pastor and Maurice the man who love me as a son (that's from him actually). The man who love me asked questions about my beliefs and listened to all I had to say for about 30 minutes and said that it was highly interesting and that we'd have to meet again to talk about it more. I was overflowing with joy.

But then I met Maurice the pastor.
As a pastor, he cannot accept me teaching openly about this "other gospel" and after talking about it, we both decided it was best for me to quit. He asked me to write a letter explaining why I was quitting and that he would read it to the church.

That was about it and we hugged and said we loved each others and I left for work (lunch break)

Now I'd say I feel good about it but I'd ask you all to pray for my wife, she doesn't understand what's going on and is very sad about leaving church. I told her she could stay but she said she couldn't go alone and I understand that she don't want to face the same questions every weeks or strange looks.
We're in a small town and it is a 30 persons church so you can't just disappear in the crowd. :laughing7:

I pray that God will reveal Himself to her in a marvelous way and do what I cannot do, give her total and complete peace.

Thanks for your prayers

I'll keep fighting the good fight!

[Nathan]

Yup, God is trying to unite his body, we keep segregating it. 
Luke 9
49 John said to Jesus, "Master, we saw someone using your name to cast out demons, but we told him to stop because he isn't in our group."
50 But Jesus said, "Don't stop him! Anyone who is not against you is for you."

Religion can't seem to grasp the notion that the Father's house has MANY rooms for all of us to be in different places and yet in the same house.

[Molly]

What an interesting way to put it--anyone not against you is for you.


As opposed the way the secular leaders put it--Anyone not for us is against us.

They define everyone not for them as the enemy, whereas Jesus only identifies the antichrist as the enemy.

[Nathan]

Yeah, for me it's the "least is the greatest" principle.  Spiritual truth is always the opposite of human reasoning.

[Cardinal]

Yeah, for me it's the "least is the greatest" principle.  Spiritual truth is always the opposite of human reasoning.

:cloud9: So good I had to repeat it.  :2thumbs:

[Cardinal]

So for those following my story with the Quebec baptist association and the MAtane church, here are the latest news.

I've met with 2 men today, Maurice the pastor and Maurice the man who love me as a son (that's from him actually). The man who love me asked questions about my beliefs and listened to all I had to say for about 30 minutes and said that it was highly interesting and that we'd have to meet again to talk about it more. I was overflowing with joy.

But then I met Maurice the pastor.
As a pastor, he cannot accept me teaching openly about this "other gospel" and after talking about it, we both decided it was best for me to quit. He asked me to write a letter explaining why I was quitting and that he would read it to the church.

That was about it and we hugged and said we loved each others and I left for work (lunch break)

Now I'd say I feel good about it but I'd ask you all to pray for my wife, she doesn't understand what's going on and is very sad about leaving church. I told her she could stay but she said she couldn't go alone and I understand that she don't want to face the same questions every weeks or strange looks.
We're in a small town and it is a 30 persons church so you can't just disappear in the crowd. :laughing7:

I pray that God will reveal Himself to her in a marvelous way and do what I cannot do, give her total and complete peace.

Thanks for your prayers

I'll keep fighting the good fight!

:cloud9: Congratulations "Q", you've been promoted..... :thumbsup: Just means He's calling you out to be with Him. Male Jewish children were turned over to their fathers for instruction at 6 years of age. He takes over our instruction as well. Blessings....

[santikos]

maybe you can begin a study group at home. i am sure many will come. i know i would if i could. i go to a pentecostal church and i am about to stop going to the mens group soon. this past monday was the icing on the cake. I will make sure to keep your wife in prayer. please keep mine in prayers too.

[Quaesitor]

BTW for those of you on facebook, my name is Gabriel Veilleux.

I'll pray for you Santikos and your wife.

Thank you Card. :HeartThrob: