I've been accused of softening the Gospel because I'm afraid of people's rejection.
That doesn't take into acount that preaching Salvation for ALL brings rejection from those we love as brothers and sisters in Christ.
QuoteI've been accused of softening the Gospel because I'm afraid of people's rejection.
So according to their "unsoftened Gospel", God is a harsh god of war, famine, and pestilence, the Judaic Zeus that must be appeased lest he call down the lightning upon us quivering mortals?
If I where an Atheist...I'd be much more inclined to love;
The God of peace, tranquility of spirit, abundance, grace, truth, love, life, and blessings for all, who carries with him the joy of good truth for every man, woman, and child, with out regards for their person - the god of a better kind of equality, with whom fear is not needed to coerce his followers, but Love alone is his yoke, who changes me from the inside out by the flowing of truth, love, and life, who is always with me, never forsaking me, who has a plan to rescue every last person out of this rotting world, and bring them to a good land flowing with milk, and honey.
Rather than the Judaic Zeus, who demands the sacrifice of praise, and coerces us by the fear of Hell-fire, demanding our allegiance, and loyalty to his sovereign scepter - so that we might enjoy the wealth to come (if by being good in our servitude to his majesty the Deity we may obtain greater rewards than merely being allowed to live) when he shall go forth in deitous conquest to subdue the earth, and caste every enemy into Eternal Damnation while his blood stained angels lift their gleaming, crimson dripping, divine flame encrusted swords letting loose war howls in languages only known to Heaven, singing cruelly, with mocking tones; Glory, Glory, Glory! of their slaughter of man, earth, and beast. Celebrating their swiftest victory yet, over pitiful mortal man who didn't stand a chance, who by ignorance, and by their own fallen natures - natures they where not subjected to by choice, had aligned themselves with a Devil who by some sheer twist of reasoning is somehow twice as evil than the Judaic Zeus, and twice as powerful, able to draw the vast score of mankind, these ignorant mortals over to his side through far more efficient means of fear, temptation, and pain in the now...or else by the promise of power.
It isn't a matter of softening the Gospel...It is not you who are softening the Gospel because you are a gentle spirit, or else afraid of people's "rejection". It is they who have in fact,
hardened it! Turning the soft, loving heart of God, and his Gospel into a stone-cold, frozen, hateful gospel that
rejects , setting up a cruel god that like his gospel
rejects, and is so by the people they try to reach with it!
Rejected!
No one bows willingly to be made into slaves. But all will bow down to Love when Love has filled them with himself!
I'd rather be accused of softening the Gospel because I love the Lord my God who is Love - than to be accused of setting up an idol of a Judaic Zeus (who is more like Molech) and being the enslaved concubine of the cold god of Rejection and Hate...
Stand back and look at the bigger picture of what they're doing by accusing you in the first place. By telling you you're doctrine is to much "this" or not enough "that". . .are they not in one form or another "defending" their own doctrine? That's pretty much what transpires when believers begin to argue with each other about what's being seen.
The reason I bring this point up is due to what Jesus said to Peter when Peter tried to defend him . .several times. The first time, Jesus called him an adversary, the next time was when Peter whacked a guys ear off and Jesus told him to put his sword (the word) away and let the invisible realm take care of it.
Truth needs no defense. Clarity perhaps, but once it becomes clear that your point has been made and the argument continues, it's best to just back out of it rather than become the problem as well.
They're telling you, you're soft, because they see God as a judge and they also love to quote "vengeance is mine . . . ." which means that God'll beat the person up "his" way. Because "it's a terrible thing to be left in the hands of God . . ." Another favorite quote they use.
It's all religious defense. Continue to plant your seeds of life and don't let their clouded understanding of that life affect you.
Quote from: Quaesitor on September 17, 2010, 06:13:03 PMI've been accused of softening the Gospel because I'm afraid of people's rejection.
It's always a bad think to make good news(=Gospel) sound good....
BTW Gospel is also a verb.
Quote from: Lefein on September 17, 2010, 06:45:08 PMIt isn't a matter of softening the Gospel...
It's removing what was added.
QuoteIt is not you who are softening the Gospel because you are a gentle spirit, or else afraid of people's "rejection". It is they who have in fact, hardened it!
Exactly. Burned beyond recognition.
Quotethan to be accused of setting up an idol of a Judaic Zeus (who is more like Molech)
And looks exactly like Paul.
Well, that guy, who is a brother I love and supported when everyone wanted hid head, brought it to the pastor of the church I go because he wrote me an email and asked that we meet to discuss these things.
Pray for me brothers and sisters I think my time is up in this baptist association.
Go in love bro. Let them go through their relgious rant and should they set you free then embrace it and them.
Thank you,
I'll go in the Spirit and only answer what the Spirit lay on my heart.
I'd love to hear how it goes for ya if you don't mind sharing.
Sure I'll keep you all informed.
In fact it started on facebook when I posted Lefein's post on Death which is filled by Life.
I translated it and posted it, knewing well that this kind of post would bring division.
Then a brother accused me of softening the Gospel and also of preaching heresies without my church leaders knowing about it which is said was wrong.
Then the pastor of the church, who I love dearly, said we had to meet and discuss (it a sure thing that he has been told by the first brother because that pastor never goes on facebook.)
And then the anathema started flying around.
I've not been called by anyone so far so I don't know when I'll meet with him but knowing him, I know it'll be in respect and love even if he has to kick me out. :winkgrin:
The worst thing about it is that not one of them had any kind of answer agaisnt Lefein's post. :mshock:
I'm kinda in the same boat as you with minor changes . .one, I'm a pastor, two we're not Baptist, we're Pentecostal. But it doesn't matter, they're just as appalled. I'd openned up to a fellow Pastor who was asking about the spiritual things I'd share from time to time and one thing led to another and then the word "univeralism" popped up . . .by him, not me.
I told him I'm not a universalist fully, but I do beleive they're a lot closer to the truth of things than our traditional values. Now when he posts on his face book, he posts warnings about an evil false doctrine that's infiltraiting in the church called "universalism". Except he says that it basically means that you think your so spiritual that you go to heaven . .it didn't make much sense to me.
I sent him a private message . .oh and he also stated that it takes away the power from the cross. I couldn't help but let out a bit of a gag on that one because that's my beef agianst traditional thinking. They're the ones that take the power from the cross and give it to the mind of man. I beleive God is returning us back to the original power source by allowing us to see that as dark as people are, his light is brighter by far.
So far, he hasn't indicated he's going to go to my/our superiors, but he did advise me I should take my concerns to the president of the denomination . . .er I mean association. They don't like being called a denomination . . .frankly I don't see any difference what so ever. But I never responded back to him at all about that because that'd be ministarial suicide.
I believe God called me to where I am right now to do what I'm doing where I'm doing it. I'm not about to throw in the towel voluntarily. There are only two ways I'll step down from the pulpit now. One is, if the same voice that called me, releases me, and two is . . .if they come in and take away my license. Outside of that, I'm staying where I am.
Interesting keywords Nathan:
superiors
president
association
license
QuoteSure I'll keep you all informed.
In fact it started on facebook when I posted Lefein's post on Death which is filled by Life.
I translated it and posted it, knewing well that this kind of post would bring division.
Oh? :D Horray! God's using me! ^_^
But now I'm curious about what they said about it, lol.
QuoteThen a brother accused me of softening the Gospel and also of preaching heresies without my church leaders knowing about it which is said was wrong.
Hmmn...Sorry if my post got you in trouble ^^' lol. But, I guess that just makes us sharing partakers in this accusation. *hugs*
But how is it a heresy? Its based on biblical principles, and (spiritually backed) logical reasoning (the good kind, where 1+1=2, and a=a), and it was a revelation too...
QuoteThen the pastor of the church, who I love dearly, said we had to meet and discuss (it a sure thing that he has been told by the first brother because that pastor never goes on facebook.)
That's kinda like tattle taleing though isn't it?
QuoteAnd then the anathema started flying around.
I'm sorry. :(
QuoteI've not been called by anyone so far so I don't know when I'll meet with him but knowing him, I know it'll be in respect and love even if he has to kick me out.
I just hope Christ waters the seed you planted. :)
QuoteThe worst thing about it is that not one of them had any kind of answer agaisnt Lefein's post.
Awww! And I was curious to know what they'd say about it...
Well, I suppose its true, a friend of mine when I shared it with him said:
"How did they react to that?"
"Its something that you'd have to either say "Yeah" to or "*grumble grumble*"
I'm not a pastor - whatever that means- but I did preach from time to time...I guess that's over in that place.
I had a brother defending me though. He made a great comment about how is not believing in hell changing the gospel. He said: Is the gospel about hell?
I answered by saying that I believe Jesus Christ is dead for the sins of the world, that he was raised on the 3rd day and that whosoever believe in Him has Life and those who don't believe have death.
In fact, since I believe in the Salvation of all, I really understand the cross, it made so less sense before.
Quote from: Lefein on September 18, 2010, 12:48:03 AM
QuoteSure I'll keep you all informed.
In fact it started on facebook when I posted Lefein's post on Death which is filled by Life.
I translated it and posted it, knewing well that this kind of post would bring division.
Oh? :D Horray! God's using me! ^_^
But now I'm curious about what they said about it, lol.
QuoteThen a brother accused me of softening the Gospel and also of preaching heresies without my church leaders knowing about it which is said was wrong.
Hmmn...Sorry if my post got you in trouble ^^' lol. But, I guess that just makes us sharing partakers in this accusation. *hugs*
But how is it a heresy? Its based on biblical principles, and (spiritually backed) logical reasoning (the good kind, where 1+1=2, and a=a), and it was a revelation too...
QuoteThen the pastor of the church, who I love dearly, said we had to meet and discuss (it a sure thing that he has been told by the first brother because that pastor never goes on facebook.)
That's kinda like tattle taleing though isn't it?
QuoteAnd then the anathema started flying around.
I'm sorry. :(
QuoteI've not been called by anyone so far so I don't know when I'll meet with him but knowing him, I know it'll be in respect and love even if he has to kick me out.
I just hope Christ waters the seed you planted. :)
QuoteThe worst thing about it is that not one of them had any kind of answer agaisnt Lefein's post.
Awww! And I was curious to know what they'd say about it...
Well, I suppose its true, a friend of mine when I shared it with him said:
"How did they react to that?"
"Its something that you'd have to either say "Yeah" to or "*grumble grumble*"
*Hugs back*
Yeah, they don't have answers to it because it's Truth. Only thing I got was that death was defeated only for the believer...talk about heresy.
See: Romans 5, for a wealth of weaponry for this whole issue. :)
Who are Christians...to argue with God's word itself? ;)
And then there is...
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
2Co 1:9 But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead:
2Co 1:10 Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us;
2Co 4:10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.
2Co 4:11 For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.
2Co 4:12 So then death worketh in us, but life in you.
Php 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Php 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Jesus allowed himself to die, to taste death, so that like a knight entering the lair of a dragon, may slay it forever and leave it dead in its cave. You have to enter death, in order to kill it, because you have to enter into absence in order to fill it.
1Jn 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
If you don't love your brothers, you aren't full of love, if you aren't full of love, you aren't full of God (God is love) if you aren't full of God, who is Love, you aren't full of Life, for Jesus is God, who is Life, Truth, Love, and the way to these things. If you aren't full of Love, you are absent of Love, and are therefore, abiding in death!
QuoteIf you don't love your brothers, you aren't full of love, if you aren't full of love, you aren't full of God (God is love) if you aren't full of God, who is Love, you aren't full of Life, for Jesus is God, who is Life, Truth, Love, and the way to these things. If you aren't full of Love, you are absent of Love, and are therefore, abiding in death!
Amen!
:thumbsup:
So for those following my story with the Quebec baptist association and the MAtane church, here are the latest news.
I've met with 2 men today, Maurice the pastor and Maurice the man who love me as a son (that's from him actually). The man who love me asked questions about my beliefs and listened to all I had to say for about 30 minutes and said that it was highly interesting and that we'd have to meet again to talk about it more. I was overflowing with joy.
But then I met Maurice the pastor.
As a pastor, he cannot accept me teaching openly about this "other gospel" and after talking about it, we both decided it was best for me to quit. He asked me to write a letter explaining why I was quitting and that he would read it to the church.
That was about it and we hugged and said we loved each others and I left for work (lunch break)
Now I'd say I feel good about it but I'd ask you all to pray for my wife, she doesn't understand what's going on and is very sad about leaving church. I told her she could stay but she said she couldn't go alone and I understand that she don't want to face the same questions every weeks or strange looks.
We're in a small town and it is a 30 persons church so you can't just disappear in the crowd. :laughing7:
I pray that God will reveal Himself to her in a marvelous way and do what I cannot do, give her total and complete peace.
Thanks for your prayers
I'll keep fighting the good fight!
Yup, God is trying to unite his body, we keep segregating it.
Luke 9
49 John said to Jesus, "Master, we saw someone using your name to cast out demons, but we told him to stop because he isn't in our group."
50 But Jesus said, "Don't stop him! Anyone who is not against you is for you."
Religion can't seem to grasp the notion that the Father's house has MANY rooms for all of us to be in different places and yet in the same house.
What an interesting way to put it--anyone not against you is for you.
As opposed the way the secular leaders put it--Anyone not for us is against us.
They define everyone not for them as the enemy, whereas Jesus only identifies the antichrist as the enemy.
Yeah, for me it's the "least is the greatest" principle. Spiritual truth is always the opposite of human reasoning.
Quote from: Nathan on September 22, 2010, 08:49:14 PM
Yeah, for me it's the "least is the greatest" principle. Spiritual truth is always the opposite of human reasoning.
:cloud9: So good I had to repeat it. :2thumbs:
Quote from: Quaesitor on September 22, 2010, 02:01:51 AM
So for those following my story with the Quebec baptist association and the MAtane church, here are the latest news.
I've met with 2 men today, Maurice the pastor and Maurice the man who love me as a son (that's from him actually). The man who love me asked questions about my beliefs and listened to all I had to say for about 30 minutes and said that it was highly interesting and that we'd have to meet again to talk about it more. I was overflowing with joy.
But then I met Maurice the pastor.
As a pastor, he cannot accept me teaching openly about this "other gospel" and after talking about it, we both decided it was best for me to quit. He asked me to write a letter explaining why I was quitting and that he would read it to the church.
That was about it and we hugged and said we loved each others and I left for work (lunch break)
Now I'd say I feel good about it but I'd ask you all to pray for my wife, she doesn't understand what's going on and is very sad about leaving church. I told her she could stay but she said she couldn't go alone and I understand that she don't want to face the same questions every weeks or strange looks.
We're in a small town and it is a 30 persons church so you can't just disappear in the crowd. :laughing7:
I pray that God will reveal Himself to her in a marvelous way and do what I cannot do, give her total and complete peace.
Thanks for your prayers
I'll keep fighting the good fight!
:cloud9: Congratulations "Q", you've been promoted..... :thumbsup: Just means He's calling you out to be with Him. Male Jewish children were turned over to their fathers for instruction at 6 years of age. He takes over our instruction as well. Blessings....
maybe you can begin a study group at home. i am sure many will come. i know i would if i could. i go to a pentecostal church and i am about to stop going to the mens group soon. this past monday was the icing on the cake. I will make sure to keep your wife in prayer. please keep mine in prayers too.
BTW for those of you on facebook, my name is Gabriel Veilleux.
I'll pray for you Santikos and your wife.
Thank you Card. :HeartThrob:
Once again, it's showing how we must actually have to become a heretic to our religious surroundings in order to follow the sound of his voice within us. How sad is that? We have to leave the very place that's supposed to be "the" place for people to go to be saved.
I would also encourage you to open your home or at least continue to be a planter of truth that liberates rather than conforms to those around you even though you may have to leave your church to do it. That's something I've personally kept on the backburner should the day come where I to, am asked to stand down, that even though it's not in the same building, this will not deter me from continuing to spread life and light into the community I'm currently planted in.
Quote from: Nathan on September 23, 2010, 04:28:38 PM
Once again, it's showing how we must actually have to become a heretic to our religious surroundings in order to follow the sound of his voice within us. How sad is that? We have to leave the very place that's supposed to be "the" place for people to go to be saved.
I would also encourage you to open your home or at least continue to be a planter of truth that liberates rather than conforms to those around you even though you may have to leave your church to do it. That's something I've personally kept on the backburner should the day come where I to, am asked to stand down, that even though it's not in the same building, this will not deter me from continuing to spread life and light into the community I'm currently planted in.
Exactly, that's what I'll write in the letter they're gonna read to the church. Everybody is welcome in our home to ask us what's going on. If they still want fellowship with us.
In fact, we've received a prophecy about that.
Quote from: Quaesitor on September 23, 2010, 05:49:25 PM
Quote from: Nathan on September 23, 2010, 04:28:38 PM
Once again, it's showing how we must actually have to become a heretic to our religious surroundings in order to follow the sound of his voice within us. How sad is that? We have to leave the very place that's supposed to be "the" place for people to go to be saved.
I would also encourage you to open your home or at least continue to be a planter of truth that liberates rather than conforms to those around you even though you may have to leave your church to do it. That's something I've personally kept on the backburner should the day come where I to, am asked to stand down, that even though it's not in the same building, this will not deter me from continuing to spread life and light into the community I'm currently planted in.
Exactly, that's what I'll write in the letter they're gonna read to the church. Everybody is welcome in our home to ask us what's going on. If they still want fellowship with us.
In fact, we've received a prophecy about that.
I think you should be able to address the church personally and read it yourself. Are you going to be present when it is read? What is to say the congregation won't get the condensed version?
Some members in our church had been in a very strict Pentecostal church before coming into ours and they said it was a normal experience for their Pastor to denounce people who'd left the church. He'd inform the rest of the members to break off any communication with them because they've chosen to leave God.
When this family left that church and came to ours, they got the same treatment. Religion can be worse than paganism.
To answer, no I will not be present, I'm not welcome there anymore and being there to read my letter would be dangerous for the poor ignorant sheep there. :sigh:
I like to think they'll honestly read it all and if they don't God is their judge.
I've always had that mentality where I believe what people tell me and if they're lying, they are the ones suffering from it.
God is my refuge and my support, He knows the Truth and those who love Him know the truth too.
You can always post the letter on your facebook as a note just incase.
Quote from: Quaesitor on September 23, 2010, 10:02:37 PM
To answer, no I will not be present, I'm not welcome there anymore and being there to read my letter would be dangerous for the poor ignorant sheep there. :sigh:
I like to think they'll honestly read it all and if they don't God is their judge.
I've always had that mentality where I believe what people tell me and if they're lying, they are the ones suffering from it.
God is my refuge and my support, He knows the Truth and those who love Him know the truth too.
Well, I understand where you are coming from, if it was me and I could not be present, I wouldn't write any letter. Sounds to me like if your not welcome, then they can't be wanting to read a letter from you for any good purpose.
That is just my opinion.
Quote from: Nathan on September 22, 2010, 07:29:27 PM
Yup, God is trying to unite his body, we keep segregating it.
Luke 9
49 John said to Jesus, "Master, we saw someone using your name to cast out demons, but we told him to stop because he isn't in our group."
50 But Jesus said, "Don't stop him! Anyone who is not against you is for you."
Religion can't seem to grasp the notion that the Father's house has MANY rooms for all of us to be in different places and yet in the same house.
This one is still resonating on this thread, thought I'd bring it back up again. ANYONE WHO IS NOT AGAINST YOU, IS FOR YOU. That really dwindles down a lot of the people they accuse as false prophets and teachers. I've never been for Christ more in my life than I am right now, and at the same time, I've never been more of a heretic of traditional religion than I am right now as well. The closer he draws me in, the more defined the line becomes that men of religion have drawn in the sand.
But we do preach another Gospel, that's the whole thing, it is another God and another Jesus. Because we are the first to reject the God who throws people in a burning lake for eternity and then some more.
On a happy note, I had a long discussion with my cousin and he was so open to UR. Everything I was saying and every questions I answered were resonating to his spirit as the truth. He was so excited, as I was, after our conversation, he was eager to talk about it more.
The Lord is really working something, I can't see where it is all going but He has a perfect plan in place.
Love always wins!
:happygrin:
What a great result to a difficult situation.
Yesterday I was asked to write that letter because I was too vocal about my beliefs and they had to dismiss me as soon as possible. So the pastor would read it today.
I had to apologize to him because when he called, he started to ask me question about stuff I had written on facebook and if I really did believe it. I said: "why is it false?", and he didn't answer, did you even read it? I continued and he said yeah but it was so obvious he hadn't even took the time to read it.
I had posted something like this too:
Standing by my convictions makes me a heretic.
I prefer to be a heretic before men than to be a liar before God.
He complained about it too.
I told him: Is there anything false there?
He didn't knew what to answer.
Finally I said I would send him a letter to manifest my desire to quit the church.
So I went outside and started praying for God to give me words of wisdom to trouble them about what they believe, I was so upset. But you know what happened? God asked me to love them and to send the most gentle and humble letter I could write. No attacks, only apologies to those who were hurt by our depart and to those who are troubled by my words. Words of love and peace. Thank you Lord, He's so loving and gracious.
So I don't know how it went there but let me tell you that the church who met in my bed this morning (wife and I) had a great time, great words from Father and lot of Peace!
Stay tuned.
:cloud9: Sounds just like Him..... :thumbsup:
There's something bothering me about all of this. The day it started, I emailed the x-pastor of the church to explain how I saw the situation and how I didn't like his accusatory remarks. He answered that what I believe is wrong and DANGEROUS (they all say that I can't understand what's so dangerous about it) and then posted verses to prove his position and asked that I answer to them.
I did, refuting all three positions, namely, life eternal, lake of fire and the deadly sin with my understanding of them. Being very honest and saying that I could be wrong about them but that there was a lot more meat on the doctrine.
I then said that in return, he had to answer my own questions.
I presented 1 Tim. 4:10/Galatians 6:10 - especially-
I presented the Jesus Saviour of the World issue, is saving 5% of mankind considered a successfull salvation? Is death defeated if 95% of mankind are still prisonner of it?
Finally I presented Romans 11:30-32 with the all/all question. If all have been locked in stubborness are these the same all that God will have mercy on?
You won't be surprised to learn that it has been 6 days and no reply to this day. It is so DANGEROUS but yet not enough to care it seems.
I do understand that they are veiled to these things, no one can reveal it to them unless God does it.
:cloud9: Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. Most of the time when confronted with unveiled truth, they can't speak because it's not in their heart to be able to. Also, He does shut the lions mouths from time to time..... :laughing7:
I got the same exact treatment . . .the Pastor who apparently has many, many credentials was given the opportunity to take 15 minutes of our monthly Pastor's meeting to explain to the others why I was so out of line and he kept using two words over and over . . one was fear. He feared where I was going, he feared where I was taking the church . . .the other word was . . yup . .dangerous.
Only problem was, when he got done with is "presentation" the other pastors began drilling him to be more specific and all he could do was put his head down on the table in exasperation. He never did explain it any further.
That was two years ago, just a couple weeks ago, one of the pastors who had been my best supporter, has descretely backed up due to finding out more about what I see. I never once used the word, but he called me a universalist like it was the plague. All I told him was, I'm much more comfortable with a universalist' perspective than traditional thinking.
Fear and danger, very Christ-like.
:sigh:
I have not felt fear since I've come to believe in salvation of all. Sorrow, pain for my brothers and sisters in Christ who are enslaved into churchianity, yes. So enslaved that they feel anger toward me, they feel I'm trying to cheat them.
One of my friend, who I've not talked to since being rejected by the church, have met my wife today. He told her he was angered over what I believe. She told him that we both have atheist friends, catholics friends and that we love them anyway. But he said that what I believe is much more worse than that!?!?!
WHAT IN THE WORLD IS SO DANGEROUS ABOUT BELIEVING GOD WILL SAVE ALL???
- What you believe God loves us THAT much, you are definitely an ANTICHRIST!
Sorry, just venting some pressure... :mblush:
Vent your frustrations friend, even David did so - and continues to vent the frustrations of mankind forever, and ever unto the long lifeages of the eons. The Psalms he wrote are full of frustrations against God, and man...yet they are the inspired word of God which will never fall, and never fade, even trillions of years after Glory has come to all.
Vent, and be free. :)
And remember dear friend! People who are enslaved to Churchianity, are angry because they are enslaved from within. They still believe that it is their work, their confession, their free-will that opened the door for Christ to enter, instead of Christ knocking and opening it himself...afterall he has the keys to Death and Hades, before he enters into our hearts and fills us with Life, our heart is Death and Hades, our own personal chamber in a bleak underworld of lostness, and lifelessness.
God will free them. God has the keys. God has the power. God has the Love.
Life will be all in all, and none shall stand before the all consuming God in glory...None, no Atheist, no Pharisee, no Sadducee, no religion of man shall stand before Truth in Beauty.
You are ahead in the line, but the line is moving forward...their turn will come soon enough.
God is Love. He is not anger, he is not vengeance, he is not evil, he is not confusing. God is a judge, and his judgements are righteous...But God is not condemnation, neither is he The Spirit of Condemnation.
Yes...it is true, it is dangerous to believe that God will save all men. It is very dangerous, it is in fact, one of the, if not the most dangerous of all beliefs on the face of this earth.
The belief in Ultimate Reconciliation is the most destructive belief ever to arise...
It destroys walls, breaks barriers, tears down illusions, burns away our iniquities, and humiliates our pride filled souls...breaks hearts, consumes falsehood, suffocates hatred with love, transforms sin into righteousness against its will through the weapons of Grace, it divides the innocent from the wicked, and collides them back together again, it invades death to pierce the void of it with life, and it tears off our filthy rags and leaves us naked before the Lord, who clothes us with robes of righteousness that he has cleaned with the blood that he shed...
Yes it is destructive...to evil, and yes it is dangerous, to things that are vanity.
More poetry, thank you Lefein.
You are ever welcome. *hugs*
:cloud9: Amen, Lefein.... :thumbsup:
Quote from: Lefein on September 28, 2010, 01:33:33 AM
Vent your frustrations friend, even David did so - and continues to vent the frustrations of mankind forever, and ever unto the long lifeages of the eons. The Psalms he wrote are full of frustrations against God, and man...yet they are the inspired word of God which will never fall, and never fade, even trillions of years after Glory has come to all.
Vent, and be free. :)
And remember dear friend! People who are enslaved to Churchianity, are angry because they are enslaved from within. They still believe that it is their work, their confession, their free-will that opened the door for Christ to enter, instead of Christ knocking and opening it himself...afterall he has the keys to Death and Hades, before he enters into our hearts and fills us with Life, our heart is Death and Hades, our own personal chamber in a bleak underworld of lostness, and lifelessness.
God will free them. God has the keys. God has the power. God has the Love.
Life will be all in all, and none shall stand before the all consuming God in glory...None, no Atheist, no Pharisee, no Sadducee, no religion of man shall stand before Truth in Beauty.
You are ahead in the line, but the line is moving forward...their turn will come soon enough.
God is Love. He is not anger, he is not vengeance, he is not evil, he is not confusing. God is a judge, and his judgements are righteous...But God is not condemnation, neither is he The Spirit of Condemnation.
Yes...it is true, it is dangerous to believe that God will save all men. It is very dangerous, it is in fact, one of the, if not the most dangerous of all beliefs on the face of this earth.
The belief in Ultimate Reconciliation is the most destructive belief ever to arise...
It destroys walls, breaks barriers, tears down illusions, burns away our iniquities, and humiliates our pride filled souls...breaks hearts, consumes falsehood, suffocates hatred with love, transforms sin into righteousness against its will through the weapons of Grace, it divides the innocent from the wicked, and collides them back together again, it invades death to pierce the void of it with life, and it tears off our filthy rags and leaves us naked before the Lord, who clothes us with robes of righteousness that he has cleaned with the blood that he shed...
Yes it is destructive...to evil, and yes it is dangerous, to things that are vanity.
Your a great blessing to people here. But you see here is something that some people don't get, yes it is God who is love but yet it is your decision to write this encouragment and allow the love of christ to flow through you. Jesus knocks and we open the door to our life, anyone who comes in any other way is a thief and a robber.
Quote from: Quaesitor on September 26, 2010, 11:27:26 PM
Finally I said I would send him a letter to manifest my desire to quit the church.
So I went outside and started praying for God to give me words of wisdom to trouble them about what they believe, I was so upset. But you know what happened? God asked me to love them and to send the most gentle and humble letter I could write. No attacks, only apologies to those who were hurt by our depart and to those who are troubled by my words. Words of love and peace. Thank you Lord, He's so loving and gracious.
:cloud9: This made me tear up, God is so awesome and gentle. :HeartThrob:
Quote from: Nathan on September 17, 2010, 11:45:35 PM
I'm kinda in the same boat as you with minor changes . .one, I'm a pastor, two we're not Baptist, we're Pentecostal. But it doesn't matter, they're just as appalled. I'd openned up to a fellow Pastor who was asking about the spiritual things I'd share from time to time and one thing led to another and then the word "univeralism" popped up . . .by him, not me.
I told him I'm not a universalist fully, but I do beleive they're a lot closer to the truth of things than our traditional values. Now when he posts on his face book, he posts warnings about an evil false doctrine that's infiltraiting in the church called "universalism". Except he says that it basically means that you think your so spiritual that you go to heaven . .it didn't make much sense to me.
I sent him a private message . .oh and he also stated that it takes away the power from the cross. I couldn't help but let out a bit of a gag on that one because that's my beef agianst traditional thinking. They're the ones that take the power from the cross and give it to the mind of man.
I simply cannot understand that line of thinking. Hell believers take away from the power of the Cross. Jesus Christ defeated death. Hell believers actually believe the Cross in the end was a big victory for Satan. If ET'ers are right then Hell will be filled the brims will Heaven is like a small town.
Quote from: Nathan on September 23, 2010, 04:28:38 PM
Once again, it's showing how we must actually have to become a heretic to our religious surroundings in order to follow the sound of his voice within us. How sad is that? We have to leave the very place that's supposed to be "the" place for people to go to be saved.
Christ was also labeled a heretic. It's so sad. The simple message that Jesus gave us, the Way He showed us. Jesus gave us two commandments: Love thy God, and love thy neighbor. Look at the monster we have created.
QuoteHell believers actually believe the Cross in the end was a big victory for Satan.
wow Satan has us tricked into worshipping him? That's why you never see the risen Christ when you go into a church--only Christ on a cross. Look what we did [brag]--we killed God.
And (perhaps) to worship self, or Satan-in-self.
The abomination of desolation.
The son of perdition.
Quote from: Molly on September 28, 2010, 05:12:56 PM
QuoteHell believers actually believe the Cross in the end was a big victory for Satan.
wow Satan has us tricked into worshipping him? That's why you never see the risen Christ when you go into a church--only Christ on a cross. Look what we did [brag]--we killed God.
I'm not sure if the cross is a holy symbol, for it is in the eye of the beholder. If you take out what Jesus did and simply look at the cross symbol, then by itself it is a satanic symbol for it represents death in it's most hideous form. The egyptians used this cross albeit upside down and satanists use the cross to, I notice also that gangsters use the cross to and
some fake christians and perhaps there is an association with death, so that the symbol draws power from death :dontknow:. Lately I am not sure if the cross is the holy symbol of God, for some say he died on a stake, or on a tree, perhaps its a tree that has been carved into a pole, then it is a tree and a pole, but then the problem of carrying the cross comes into the equation.
I see the cross as a symbol of sacrifice. The cross is the altar upon which God shed his blood.
It is not about death, anymore than passover is about death. It is about the road to freedom, and the sign of God's grace. In my opinion.
But I don't think we need to get legalistic in our own way about removing every shred of symbolism, or adornment from our hearts, thoughts, or otherwise...just because it might not fit "perfectly" with our notions of what is holy or not.
Quote from: thinktank on September 28, 2010, 10:30:26 PMThe egyptians used this cross albeit upside down
It represent the rebirth of the sun god. Planet alignment with the sun in the middle. Often shown as: (http://www.cross-pendants-online.com/pics/lifetime-jewelry/blue-star-sapphire-celtic-cross-pendant-in-14k-yellow-gold.R41226S:100125:P.1.50.jpg) or as the ankh (http://image.absoluteastronomy.com/images/encyclopediaimages/a/an/ankh.svg.png)
It was also a fertility symbol.
Woman=Sun+cross (http://gwydir.demon.co.uk/jo/maze/cretan/female.gif)
Quoteand satanists use the cross to,
Ever wondered what the peace symbol means?(http://api.ning.com/files/X1M0VUdYfdMPVzi0cyh6RYUajQ4LsT42coGmFDUUYljCK3UFfnwKOD7Zqp7q5j9EMINu38DGBGAX4PQ9clgfnDB5gffdraM3/peace_symbol_1.JPG?crop=1%3A1&width=40)
QuoteLately I am not sure if the cross is the holy symbol of God, for some say he died on a stake, or on a tree, perhaps its a tree that has been carved into a pole, then it is a tree and a pole, but then the problem of carrying the cross comes into the equation.
Imo He carried the cross beam. That beam was nailed to a living (almond/olive) tree. But we already discussed that here (http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?topic=6276.0)
I think the real symbol of Jesus is a candlestick.
Remember, God created everything - and everything is to his use for his own artistic use, for symbols, or not. :thumbsup:
Even the lotus flower could be used to symbolise Jesus, simply because it is beautiful, and a flower arrayed in glory greater than Solomon's.
Quote from: wwEver wondered what the peace symbol means?
Let's see...an upsidedown broken cross--I wonder what that could mean.. :Whistle:
Quote from: Nathan on September 17, 2010, 07:31:38 PM
Stand back and look at the bigger picture of what they're doing by accusing you in the first place. By telling you you're doctrine is to much "this" or not enough "that". . .are they not in one form or another "defending" their own doctrine? That's pretty much what transpires when believers begin to argue with each other about what's being seen.
The reason I bring this point up is due to what Jesus said to Peter when Peter tried to defend him . .several times. The first time, Jesus called him an adversary, the next time was when Peter whacked a guys ear off and Jesus told him to put his sword (the word) away and let the invisible realm take care of it.
Truth needs no defense. Clarity perhaps, but once it becomes clear that your point has been made and the argument continues, it's best to just back out of it rather than become the problem as well.
They're telling you, you're soft, because they see God as a judge and they also love to quote "vengeance is mine . . . ." which means that God'll beat the person up "his" way. Because "it's a terrible thing to be left in the hands of God . . ." Another favorite quote they use.
It's all religious defense. Continue to plant your seeds of life and don't let their clouded understanding of that life affect you.
Way good stuff brother N... 7 thumbs up ---> :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :thumbsup:
...willieH :cloud9:
Quote from: willieH on September 29, 2010, 12:21:54 AM
Quote from: Nathan on September 17, 2010, 07:31:38 PM
Stand back and look at the bigger picture of what they're doing by accusing you in the first place. By telling you you're doctrine is to much "this" or not enough "that". . .are they not in one form or another "defending" their own doctrine? That's pretty much what transpires when believers begin to argue with each other about what's being seen.
The reason I bring this point up is due to what Jesus said to Peter when Peter tried to defend him . .several times. The first time, Jesus called him an adversary, the next time was when Peter whacked a guys ear off and Jesus told him to put his sword (the word) away and let the invisible realm take care of it.
Truth needs no defense. Clarity perhaps, but once it becomes clear that your point has been made and the argument continues, it's best to just back out of it rather than become the problem as well.
They're telling you, you're soft, because they see God as a judge and they also love to quote "vengeance is mine . . . ." which means that God'll beat the person up "his" way. Because "it's a terrible thing to be left in the hands of God . . ." Another favorite quote they use.
It's all religious defense. Continue to plant your seeds of life and don't let their clouded understanding of that life affect you.
Way good stuff brother N... 3 thumbs up ---> :2thumbs: :thumbsup:
...willieH :cloud9:
:2thumbs: We either believe it's God that veils and reveals, or we don't. There's a scrip that says "charge these things and teach" - not "make'em believe it". Paul said when Jesus comes, He will make apparent what's going on, things will be brought to light. There's also a scripture that says if any man be ignorant (unlearned/unpersuaded) let him be ignorant still".
While Jehovah's Witnesses make a big deal of it, saying people worship the cross, specially a crucifix, and many Protestants hate crucifixes, saying, "My Jesus is alive, not on a cross," I personally consider it rather a non-issue. That, for our sakes, it was a "tree" to be accursed according to the Torah is true. If it was a stake or pole it would be written as, "The print of the nail" (singular). It's interesting that the Jehovah's Witnesses New Word Translation has "nails" (plural) in John 2025. I wonder if they'll get around to changing it?
John 2024-29; Concordant Literal Translation:
24 Now Thomas, one of the twelve, termed Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.
25 The other disciples, then, said to him, "We have seen the Lord!" Yet he said to them, "Should I not perceive in His hands the print of the nails, and thrust my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into His side, I will by no means be believing."
26 And after eight days His disciples were again within, and Thomas was with them. The doors having been locked, Jesus is coming and stood in the midst and said, "Peace to you!"
27 Thereafter He is saying to Thomas, "Bring your finger here and perceive My hands, and bring your hand and thrust it into My side, and do not become unbelieving, but believing."
28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"
29 Now Jesus is saying to him, "Seeing that you have seen Me, you have believed. Happy are those who are not perceiving and believe."
I made a study on the cross and the resurrection and what I found to be great is that only God can resurrect things to a greater meaning.
What I mean is the for people before Christ, the cross was a symbol of DEATH/PAIN/SUFFERING/TREASON/ROMAN POWER AND CRUELTY.
But God took this cross and transformed it into a symbol of LIFE/SALVATION/REDEMPTION/PERFECT LOVE.
That's how great God!