Accusations

[JohnnyCatholic12]

Once again, it's showing how we must actually have to become a heretic to our religious surroundings in order to follow the sound of his voice within us.  How sad is that?  We have to leave the very place that's supposed to be "the" place for people to go to be saved.

Christ was also labeled a heretic.  It's so sad.  The simple message that Jesus gave us, the Way He showed us.  Jesus gave us two commandments: Love thy God, and love thy neighbor.  Look at the monster we have created.

[Molly]

Hell believers actually believe the Cross in the end was a big victory for Satan.

wow Satan has us tricked into worshipping him?  That's why you never see the risen Christ when you go into a church--only Christ on a cross.  Look what we did [brag]--we killed God.

[Beloved Servant]

And (perhaps) to worship self, or Satan-in-self.
The abomination of desolation.
The son of perdition.

[thinktank]

Hell believers actually believe the Cross in the end was a big victory for Satan.

wow Satan has us tricked into worshipping him?  That's why you never see the risen Christ when you go into a church--only Christ on a cross.  Look what we did [brag]--we killed God.

I'm not sure if the cross is a holy symbol, for it is in the eye of the beholder. If you take out what Jesus did and simply look at the cross symbol, then by itself it is a satanic symbol for it represents death in it's most hideous form. The egyptians used this cross albeit upside down and satanists use the cross to, I notice also that gangsters use the cross to and some fake christians and perhaps there is an association with death, so that the symbol draws power from death :dontknow:. Lately I am not sure if the cross is the holy symbol of God, for some say he died on a stake, or on a tree, perhaps its a tree that has been carved into a pole, then it is a tree and a pole, but then the problem of carrying the cross comes into the equation.

[Lefein]

I see the cross as a symbol of sacrifice.  The cross is the altar upon which God shed his blood.

It is not about death, anymore than passover is about death.  It is about the road to freedom, and the sign of God's grace.  In my opinion.  

But I don't think we need to get legalistic in our own way about removing every shred of symbolism, or adornment from our hearts, thoughts, or otherwise...just because it might not fit "perfectly" with our notions of what is holy or not.

[WhiteWings]

The egyptians used this cross albeit upside down

It represent the rebirth of the sun god. Planet alignment with the sun in the middle. Often shown as: (http://www.cross-pendants-online.com/pics/lifetime-jewelry/blue-star-sapphire-celtic-cross-pendant-in-14k-yellow-gold.R41226S:100125:P.1.50.jpg) or as the ankh (http://image.absoluteastronomy.com/images/encyclopediaimages/a/an/ankh.svg.png)
It was also a fertility symbol.
Woman=Sun+cross (http://gwydir.demon.co.uk/jo/maze/cretan/female.gif)

and satanists use the cross to,

Ever wondered what the peace symbol means?(http://api.ning.com/files/X1M0VUdYfdMPVzi0cyh6RYUajQ4LsT42coGmFDUUYljCK3UFfnwKOD7Zqp7q5j9EMINu38DGBGAX4PQ9clgfnDB5gffdraM3/peace_symbol_1.JPG?crop=1%3A1&width=40)

Lately I am not sure if the cross is the holy symbol of God, for some say he died on a stake, or on a tree, perhaps its a tree that has been carved into a pole, then it is a tree and a pole, but then the problem of carrying the cross comes into the equation.

Imo He carried the cross beam. That beam was nailed to a living (almond/olive) tree. But we already discussed that here
I think the real symbol of Jesus is a candlestick.

[Lefein]

Remember, God created everything - and everything is to his use for his own artistic use, for symbols, or not.  :thumbsup:

Even the lotus flower could be used to symbolise Jesus, simply because it is beautiful, and a flower arrayed in glory greater than Solomon's.

[Molly]

Ever wondered what the peace symbol means?

Let's see...an upsidedown broken cross--I wonder what that could mean.. :Whistle:

[willieH]

Stand back and look at the bigger picture of what they're doing by accusing you in the first place.  By telling you you're doctrine is to much "this" or not enough "that". . .are they not in one form or another "defending" their own doctrine?  That's pretty much what transpires when believers begin to argue with each other about what's being seen.  

The reason I bring this point up is due to what Jesus said to Peter when Peter tried to defend him . .several times.  The first time, Jesus called him an adversary, the next time was when Peter whacked a guys ear off and Jesus told him to put his sword (the word) away and let the invisible realm take care of it.

Truth needs no defense.  Clarity perhaps, but once it becomes clear that your point has been made and the argument continues, it's best to just back out of it rather than become the problem as well.

They're telling you, you're soft, because they see God as a judge and they also love to quote "vengeance is mine . . . ."  which means that God'll beat the person up "his" way.  Because "it's a terrible thing to be left in the hands of God . . ."  Another favorite quote they use.

It's all religious defense.  Continue to plant your seeds of life and don't let their clouded understanding of that life affect you.

Way good stuff brother N... 7 thumbs up --->  :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :thumbsup:

...willieH  :cloud9:

[jabcat]

Stand back and look at the bigger picture of what they're doing by accusing you in the first place.  By telling you you're doctrine is to much "this" or not enough "that". . .are they not in one form or another "defending" their own doctrine?  That's pretty much what transpires when believers begin to argue with each other about what's being seen. 

The reason I bring this point up is due to what Jesus said to Peter when Peter tried to defend him . .several times.  The first time, Jesus called him an adversary, the next time was when Peter whacked a guys ear off and Jesus told him to put his sword (the word) away and let the invisible realm take care of it.

Truth needs no defense.  Clarity perhaps, but once it becomes clear that your point has been made and the argument continues, it's best to just back out of it rather than become the problem as well.
They're telling you, you're soft, because they see God as a judge and they also love to quote "vengeance is mine . . . ."  which means that God'll beat the person up "his" way.  Because "it's a terrible thing to be left in the hands of God . . ."  Another favorite quote they use.

It's all religious defense.  Continue to plant your seeds of life and don't let their clouded understanding of that life affect you.

Way good stuff brother N... 3 thumbs up --->  :2thumbs: :thumbsup:

...willieH  :cloud9:

:2thumbs:   We either believe it's God that veils and reveals, or we don't.  There's a scrip that says "charge these things and teach" - not "make'em believe it".   Paul said when Jesus comes, He will make apparent what's going on, things will be brought to light.  There's also a scripture that says if any man be ignorant (unlearned/unpersuaded) let him be ignorant still".

[reFORMer]

While Jehovah's Witnesses make a big deal of it, saying people worship the cross, specially a crucifix, and many Protestants hate crucifixes, saying, "My Jesus is alive, not on a cross," I personally consider it rather a  non-issue.  That, for our sakes, it was a "tree" to be accursed according to the Torah is true.  If it was a stake or pole it would be written as, "The print of the nail" (singular).  It's interesting that the Jehovah's Witnesses New Word Translation has "nails" (plural) in John 20²⁵.  I wonder if they'll get around to changing it?

John 20^24-29; Concordant Literal Translation:
24 Now Thomas, one of the twelve, termed Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.
25 The other disciples, then, said to him, "We have seen the Lord!" Yet he said to them, "Should I not perceive in His hands the print of the nails, and thrust my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into His side, I will by no means be believing."
26 And after eight days His disciples were again within, and Thomas was with them. The doors having been locked, Jesus is coming and stood in the midst and said, "Peace to you!"
27 Thereafter He is saying to Thomas, "Bring your finger here and perceive My hands, and bring your hand and thrust it into My side, and do not become unbelieving, but believing."
28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"
29 Now Jesus is saying to him, "Seeing that you have seen Me, you have believed. Happy are those who are not perceiving and believe."

[Quaesitor]

I made a study on the cross and the resurrection and what I found to be great is that only God can resurrect things to a greater meaning.
What I mean is the for people before Christ, the cross was a symbol of DEATH/PAIN/SUFFERING/TREASON/ROMAN POWER AND CRUELTY.
But God took this cross and transformed it into a symbol of LIFE/SALVATION/REDEMPTION/PERFECT LOVE.
That's how great God!