The Second Coming?

[junkbunny]

removed

[Novus-Ordo-Seclorum7]

Try this first , good luck
http://sigler.org/eby/eby_revelation.htm

John Preston Eby's  works on truest meanings of revelation I have ever found

[micah7:9]

What "second coming?"

[peacemaker]

What "second coming?"

First the physical, then the Spiritual.

[micah7:9]

Well He already did that. Is doing it, and will do that.

[micah7:9]

Hi Micah, I'd appreciate if you could give me links to some reading material that supports your view :)  Thank you.

http://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/   and The Bible

[micah7:9]

Thankyou for the link.  :)

Not to be offensive, but I think pretty much every Christian would give the Bible as text that supports their view - and as we know they're not all universalists. The Bible apparently supports a range of views, not just yours.

You seem arrogant in your posts (or maybe it's just me), and I'd appreciate if you'd be more clear and explanatory in your statements in the future - aside from the link you've given, your replies to my post have been quite unhelpful.

It is not my intention to arrogant. I asked where is this "second coming" in the Bible you ask about? I find no second coming in the Bible, and that is not a view, that is a truth.

[Molly]

Hi JB, not to butt in here, but I think what Micah is referring to is the wonderful study done by Eby on the 'second coming,' called, "Looking for his Appearing."  It's well worth the read.  Here's a sample--



On the day of Pentecost Christ came again as the Comforter. "And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you forever; even the Spirit of Truth: whom the world cannot receive, because it sees Him not, neither knows Him: but you know Him; for He DWELLS WITH YOU, and shall be IN YOU. I will not leave you comfortless (orphans): I WILL COME UNTO YOU. Yet A little while, and the world sees me no more; but YOU SEE ME: because I live, you shall live also. At that day you shall know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I IN YOU" (Jn. 14:16-20).

In Mk. 13:26 He comes with CLOUDS. In Mat. 24:27 He comes as LIGHTNING. In Rev. 16:15 He comes as a THIEF. In Mat. 25:6 He comes as the BRIDEGROOM. In Rev. 22:16 and 2:28 He comes as the MORNING STAR. In Mal. 4:2 He comes as the SUN OF RIGHTEOUSNESS ARISING. In Phil. 3:20-21 He comes in RESURRECTION POWER. In II Thes. 1:7-8 He comes in FLAMING FIRE. In Mal. 3:1-3 He comes to His priesthood company as REFINER'S FIRE and FULLER'S SOAP. In I Thes. 4:16-17 He comes IN THE AIR. In Hos. 6:3 and James 5:7-8 He comes as the RAIN. In Rev. 19:11 & 14 He comes on a WHITE HORSE. In Mat. 25:31-34 He comes as KING. In I Pet. 5:4 He comes as the CHIEF SHEPHERD. In Mat. 16:27 He comes WITH HIS ANGELS. In Jude 14 He comes WITH HIS SAINTS. In Jn. 14:18 He comes TO HIS SAINTS. In II Thes. 1:10 He comes IN HIS SAINTS. In Jude 14 & 15 He comes in JUDGMENT. In Rev. 22:12 He comes WITH REWARDS. And time and space fail me to tell of how He comes with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, with the trump of God; He comes to the Mount of Olives; He comes to His temple; He comes in glory; He comes as Lord; He comes in His Kingdom; He comes as seasons of refreshing, etc., etc., etc.

Like a choir of many voices and as the sound of many waters, the testimony of the Word of God resounds with abundant and stunning and inescapable evidence that the coming of Christ is not a single event, but includes many different manifestations. His coming to us is a many-sided experience. To multitudes He appears as Saviour. They find Him at the crossroads of their lives. He becomes their salvation but they never venture any deeper to know Him intimately. They have only a superficial knowledge of Him. To others He appears as Chief Shepherd and Bridegroom. These hear His voice and are moved by His love, and follow on to know Him in deeper measures of intimacy and union. To others He appears as a Thief. He comes into their world uninvited and unannounced, He overtakes them unexpectedly and breaks up their life style and smashes their religious games. And unto others He appears as Fire, consuming their hay, wood, and stubble, eliminating by the spirit of burning all that is of self and not of God. The coming of the Lord is as many-faceted as the most dazzling crystal of earth or the most beautiful diamond known to man. In the Old Testament, the rabbis were often confused by the seeming contradictions in the descriptions of the coming of the Messiah. In some of the passages the Messiah was described as coming as a Suffering Servant to be wounded for transgressions and bruised for iniquities. In other passages He was coming as a Conqueror to rule and to defeat the enemies of the people of God. The people asked their scholars for an answer to this seeming contradiction. The rabbis would often go so far as to say that two Messiahs were coming. They were wrong; the same Messiah was coming twice. But more than that! Yea, a thousand times more! The same Messiah comes five, ten, thirty, ten thousand times, in as many and varied ways and manners as there are dealings and operations of God to bewrought in the lives of men and in the destiny of nations upon this earth. My earnest prayer to God is that the spirit of wisdom and revelation may somehow make forever plain to all who read these halting lines that we have seen too limited a vision of the truth, but bringing all the facets together, there is the fuller view where it readily appears that there are many-splendored dimensions to HIS COMING.

http://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/Looking/Looking1.htm

[Quaesitor]

In a few words, it contains the belief that God will first rapture the true church then that there will be 7 years of tribulations under the world-leading antichrist - a satan-possessed individual -  and then Jesus and the church will appear on the mount of Olives and break it in two before destroying the united armies of the world which came to destroy Israel.
God will then destroy the earth with fire - throw His glorious creation in the garbage - throw His failed image-bearers in hell and party in Heavens with the chosen ones!

A lot of imagination and few biblical truth.

[CHB]

 :laughing7:

CHB

[jabcat]

Hi junkbunny.  I'm somewhere "in the middle".  I appreciate, have benefited from, and believe much of Brother Eby's writings.   On the other hand, I certainly am not straight down the line orthodox in my views, as in believing all the "Left Behind" scenarios.

Summarily, I certainly do believe Jesus is and will be among us, the ecclesia.  I also believe He will use a company of believers, specially empowering them, to help bring the others in - whether one calls them the ecclesia, the overcomers, or the manifest sons.  But - and here's where I depart from many in UR - I believe Jesus will personally appear and be present to usher in the next age.  That we will indeed "see Him as He is".  That we won't be guessing at what He's up to, He will commission and empower us to "rule and reign" WITH Him.

I guess I'm one, that though God has brought me out of orthodoxy and shown me some "other things", still doesn't believe there's absolutely one "main accepted teaching" that I have to adhere to, to make me a "UR believer in good standing"  :laughing7:.  (For instance, I don't believe all are saved right now, i.e., the "Gospel of Inclusion".  I believe as Jesus said, we must be born again [spiritually renewed from above];  and per Paul, if we believe and confess/call on the name of the Lord, we WILL BE saved - some now, the rest later.)

Anyway, some scriptures I consider;

Then as they were looking intently into the sky while He was going, notice, two men in white attire stood beside them, who also said, "People of Galilee, why do you stand here looking into the sky?  This Yesu who was taken up away from you into the sky, will come like this, in the manner that you have gazed at Him going into the sky".  Acts 1:11



...we can have faith that in the same way, by means of Yesu, God will lead forward together with Him those who have fallen asleep.  For this we are saying to you by the authority of the Master's Word, that we who are alive and surviving to the Master's Presence [at the beginning of the last Age] shall by no means surpass those who have fallen asleep.  For the Master Himself will descend from heaven at the shout of command by the voice of a Chief Messenger, and at a blowing of the trumpet of God, and the dead who are in union with the Anointed One will first rise up.  ....we will always be together with the Master.  Therefore you must be continually encouraging one another with these words!

and to be continually waiting for His Son from the heavens, whom He has awakened from among the dead, Yesu, the One who is going to rescue us from the coming Anger...

For who is our hope or joy or winner's crown for boasting?  Is it not even you, in front of our Master Yesu at His Presence [at the beginning of the Last Age]?    I Thessaloninans 1,3,4  The Christian Bible

I KNOW - people have all kinds of different beliefs and interpretations of scriptures.  I've read them and heard them.  I'm saying what I believe and understand, after thought and examination.  However, these are things to not argue or divide over.  **Jesus, Savior of the world.  Living God, Savior of all men, especially believers.  Charge THESE THINGS and TEACH.    Pure and genuine religion in the sight of God the Father means caring for orphans and widows in their distress and refusing to let the world corrupt you.  Js. 1:27

:HeartThrob:

[meerkat]

In a few words, it contains the belief that God will first rapture the true church then that there will be 7 years of tribulations under the world-leading antichrist - a satan-possessed individual -  and then Jesus and the church will appear on the mount of Olives and break it in two before destroying the united armies of the world which came to destroy Israel.
God will then destroy the earth with fire - throw His glorious creation in the garbage - throw His failed image-bearers in hell and party in Heavens with the chosen ones!

A lot of imagination and few biblical truth.

a very to the point synopsis .... love it!!  :thumbsup:

[thinktank]

proverbs

19 For the goodman is not at home, he is gone a long journey: 20 He hath taken a bag of money with him, and will come home at the day appointed.

What is this bag of money? is this the reward that God will give us? What is the reward that God speaks about throughout the bible? is it not the crown of rightoeusness of infinite value?

Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee

John 14

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

[Quaesitor]

Before anyone take me wrong, I too, believe that Jesus will come again to reign and put every powers and dominations under His feet.
What I believe though, is that it won't happen like in the imagination of Tim Lahaye.

[jabcat]

Good clarification.  That's what I said too, re: the "Left Behind" description.  :thumbsup:

[Doug]

In the parable of the wedding feast, in Matthew 22:1-14, the ones who were first bidden to attend refused to come, and mistreated the messengers, and slew them, and when the king heard of it, he sent his armies to destroy their city. An application of this part of the parable to Jews in the first century is hard to miss. The Romans armies carried out the will of God.

Then the guests are sought in the highways, and both good and bad are brought in, to be guests at the wedding.

Matthew 22:11-14
Now the king came in to see the guests; and among them he discovered one who was not wearing a wedding-robe.
`My friend,' he said, `how is it that you came in here without a wedding robe?'
The man stood speechless. Then the king said to the servants, "`Bind him hand and foot and fling him into the darkness outside: there will be the weeping aloud and the gnashing of teeth.'
For there are many called, but few chosen.

It is questionable whether any of the varieties of dispensationalism would be suitable as a wedding garment, but IMO, the same applies to preterism. Both those viewpoints propose interpretations of the Olivet Discourse of Jesus, and Zechariah's prophecy of the Mount of Olives becoming cleaved in the midst, along with other prophecies. Dispensationalism says that they are yet to be fulfilled in a future 7 year tribulation, and preterism says they were fulfilled already in 70 AD. They are opposite interpretations, which is depicted by Zechariah's prophecy about the two halves of the Mount of Olives moving in opposite directions.

I suggest the Mount of Olives becoming cleaved in the midst, as Zechariah described, represents these opposite interpretations of the Olivet Discourse of Jesus. Zechariah addresses the church, which is represented by Jerusalem, and says, flee to the valley created between the two halves of the Mount of Olives, when it is cleaved, and half of it moves to the north, and the other half moves to the south. This clearly indicates we need to apply the Olivet Discourse, and Zechariah's prophecy, to the present age, rather than a future one, or one that is already past. As one goes from Jerusalem towards the Mount of Olives, on the left will be the half of the mountain that represents preterism, and on the right, the half of the mountain that represents dispensationalism. The law says, "Ye shall not turn aside to the right hand or to the left." [Deuteronomy 5:32; 28:14; Joshua 23:6]

The mount of Olives is a long ridge east of Jerusalem, and the various peaks and bumps along the ridge could represent various divisions of preterism and dispensationalism, on the north: partial preterism, "transmillenialism," hyperpreterism, etc., and on the south: progressive dispensationalism, classical  dispensationalism, revised dispensationalism, mid-acts dispensationalism, ultradispensationalism, etc.

Those who heed Zechariah's prophecy will turn neither to the right, nor to the left. The preferred way to go is in between. Zechariah said, "ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains;... yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee." [Zechariah 14:5]

In the Olivet Discourse, Jesus gave advice about clothes.  

Matthew 24:18
Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

Doug

[Molly]

It is the wicked and/or wickedness who will be 'raptured'--that is, removed--from this earth.   God's people will inherit the earth, and God's kingdom will fill the whole earth.


Prov 10:30 The righteous shall never be removed: but the wicked shall not inhabit the earth.



Prov 2:21 For the upright shall dwell in the land, and the perfect shall remain in it.

Prov 2:22 But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it. 



Prov 3:25 Be not afraid of sudden fear, neither of the desolation of the wicked, when it cometh. 

Prov 3:26 For the LORD shall be thy confidence, and shall keep thy foot from being taken.



Isaiah 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.



Rev 5:10

"And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.



Num 14:21 "But as truly as I live, all the EARTH shall be filled with the glory of the LORD.

Isa 11:9 "They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the EARTH shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea."

Hab 2:14 "For the EARTH shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea."

Jude 14 "And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, 15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

2 Thes 1:7 " And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,



Psa 37 10For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.

11But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.



Matthew 5:5
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.


Revelation 11:15
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

[micah7:9]

John 14

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.(Thinktank)

Joh 14:3 And, if I go, and prepare a place for you, again, am I coming, and will take you home unto––myself, that, where, I, am, ye also, may be.(Rotherham)

Joh 14:3 and if I should go, and should prepare for you a place, again I am coming, and will receive you to myself; so that where am I, also you may be.(Emphatic Diag)

Joh 14:3 and if I go on and prepare for you a place, again do I come, and will receive you unto myself, that where I am ye also may be; YLT)

My point is rather than meaning a second time coming, it is more that one or two or three comings, He is ALWAYS coming again.

[Molly]

He is ALWAYS coming again.

I'm wondering if this is true only for believers.

To the Jews he says, [Mat 23] Your house is left unto you desolate.  You shall not see me henceforth until...

And, maybe, he has not even come the first time, yet,  for the wicked--[because they are too blind/evil to see him?]

[thinktank]

John 14

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.(Thinktank)

Joh 14:3 And, if I go, and prepare a place for you, again, am I coming, and will take you home unto––myself, that, where, I, am, ye also, may be.(Rotherham)

Joh 14:3 and if I should go, and should prepare for you a place, again I am coming, and will receive you to myself; so that where am I, also you may be.(Emphatic Diag)

Joh 14:3 and if I go on and prepare for you a place, again do I come, and will receive you unto myself, that where I am ye also may be; YLT)

My point is rather than meaning a second time coming, it is more that one or two or three comings, He is ALWAYS coming again.

To me he is always with us through his holy spirit. But we will not see him again as the disciples saw him on the mount of transfiguration, until the end, when he returns to receive us into himself, ready for the marriage.

[micah7:9]

What the disciples saw on the mount of transfiguration was a VISION.

Mat 17:9  And as they are coming down from the mount, Jesus charged them, saying, `Say to no one the vision, till the Son of Man out of the dead may rise.'

[Molly]

What the disciples saw on the mount of transfiguration was a VISION.

Mat 17:9  And as they are coming down from the mount, Jesus charged them, saying, `Say to no one the vision, till the Son of Man out of the dead may rise.'

Yes, but it is a vision because it is something that happened out of due time [before its time].


"vision"

G3705
οραμα
horama
hor'-am-ah
From G3708; something gazed at, that is, a spectacle (especially supernatural): - sight, vision.



G3708
οράω
horaō
hor-ah'-o
Properly to stare at (compare G3700), that is, (by implication) to discern clearly (physically or mentally); by extension to attend to; by Hebraism to experience; passively to appear: - behold, perceive, see, take heed.

[micah7:9]

What does that mean?

[thinktank]

Is the mount of transfiguration the same as mount of Olives?

[micah7:9]

I dont know, possibly.