The Second Coming?

[Molly]

What does that mean?

It means they weren't halucinating [as you might if you were on drugs, for instance].  They were seeing something that was real but they were seeing it before it happened in time as we understand time.  That's why Jesus tells them not to speak of it until its time has come.

If something is revealed before its due time, it is considered to be supernatural.  But, that doesn't mean it isn't REAL.

Romans 3:21
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;



"manifested"

G5319
φανερόω
phaneroō
fan-er-o'-o
From G5318; to render apparent (literally or figuratively): - appear, manifestly declare, (make) manifest (forth), shew (self).





"manifest"

To show or demonstrate plainly; reveal

[thinktank]

To me for now means that Jesus will return with his saints upon the mount of olives and destroy the wicked.

The transfiguration was a vision of that happening when God will return with his saints to excecute judgment on all ungodly.

[micah7:9]

What does that mean?

It means they weren't halucinating [as you might if you were on drugs, for instance].  They were seeing something that was real but they were seeing it before it happened in time as we understand time.  That's why Jesus tells them not to speak of it until its time has come.

If something is revealed before its due time, it is considered to be supernatural.  But, that doesn't mean it isn't REAL.

Romans 3:21
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;



"manifested"

G5319
φανερόω
phaneroō
fan-er-o'-o
From G5318; to render apparent (literally or figuratively): - appear, manifestly declare, (make) manifest (forth), shew (self).





"manifest"

To show or demonstrate plainly; reveal

Never said "halucinating " or nothing about drugs, it was a vison, something seen. They all saw the very thing  that Peter saw with out a vision  Mat 16:16  and Simon Peter answering said, `Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.'

[Molly]

What does that mean?

It means they weren't halucinating [as you might if you were on drugs, for instance].  They were seeing something that was real but they were seeing it before it happened in time as we understand time.  That's why Jesus tells them not to speak of it until its time has come.

If something is revealed before its due time, it is considered to be supernatural.  But, that doesn't mean it isn't REAL.

Romans 3:21
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;



"manifested"

G5319
φανερόω
phaneroō
fan-er-o'-o
From G5318; to render apparent (literally or figuratively): - appear, manifestly declare, (make) manifest (forth), shew (self).





"manifest"

To show or demonstrate plainly; reveal

Never said "halucinating " or nothing about drugs, it was a vison, something seen. They all saw the very thing  that Peter saw with out a vision  Mat 16:16  and Simon Peter answering said, `Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.'

Just wanted to clarify because TT referred to seeing him again as the disciples saw him--which, although to them it was a vision, since it had not yet been made manifest, is the resurrected Christ.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Agreeing with Micah.....He has come, He is coming, He will come.....Blessings....

[jabcat]

Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send at my request, will teach you everything, and will bring to your memories all that I have said to you.  Remember what I told you: I am going away, but I will come back to you again.

[micah7:9]

Selah.

[thinktank]

Selah.

I'm confused, I thought you said there was no second coming? Or have you learned differently since then?

Learning in a short space is good, it means one is flexible and open to change.

[jabcat]

Let me respond TT, and then of course, Micah may as well.

To me, the questions are in the details.  I too believe Jesus came, went away, sent the Comfortor, indwells us through the Comfortor.  As I see it, here's where it gets "iffy".

Some believe Jesus will never again be present in His glorified body.  Then some of those believe He comes, comes, and comes again - in the midst of the saints, through events, etc. - not literally.  Still others believe He went away, sent the Comfortor, then He will come again "just as you see Him go away".  Then lines are drawn.  

I'm a "mixture" - a "hybrid".   :laughing7:, and I understand some see it differently.  I believe all of it except the first line.  I believe He came, went away, sent the Comfortor (and indwells us in that manner, and is spiritually amongst us).  I believe in a sense He "visits" us often, coming and coming again through special manifestations and events, etc.  But I still believe that's different than a time we will literally find ourselves in His direct, physical(ly glorified) Presence - the resurrection - the dead in Christ will rise, we will meet Him, etc.  Then He will usher in the next age through the ecclesia/first-fruits/manifest sons, who will rule and reign with Him.  

I think even though some may believe (even parts of) this scenario, they are hesitant to call it a "second coming", because they believe He is often returning.  I just see it as various types of returning perhaps, and that there is still to be a major re-appearing that won't be missed or guessed about.  My  :2c:.  

[Beloved Servant]

The butterfly has left the cocoon.
It's about time to fly!

[jabcat]

What a comeback Dave!  I can count on you.  :thumbsup:

[jabcat]

I'm a "mixture" - a "hybrid".  

Some might even call me a mutt.   :pointlaugh:

[Lefein]

Jesus often appeared to man as the pre-incarnate God; Angel of the Lord before his "first coming" as the incarnate.  But the incarnate coming was still a special appearance, even amongst his many appearances already.  So it stands to reason that a God who does not change would be able to still make appearances in many ways, even physical, and still have a reserved special appearance where he comes down with his saints behind, battle lines drawn, swords blazing forth in the mighty charge as he swoops down and sunders the serpent's presence and flings him into the pit!  Sitting on the throne, and calling out to the whole of creation: "BEHOLD! I - AM - GOD!"

But of course, I'm not one to put the infinite God, into a finite box when it comes to his appearances on our worldly stage. :)

[micah7:9]

"Some believe Jesus will never again be present in His glorified body" Jabcat

Just what is "His glorified body?"

[micah7:9]

Let me respond TT, and then of course, Micah may as well.

To me, the questions are in the details.  I too believe Jesus came, went away, sent the Comfortor, indwells us through the Comfortor.  As I see it, here's where it gets "iffy".

Some believe Jesus will never again be present in His glorified body.  Then some of those believe He comes, comes, and comes again - in the midst of the saints, through events, etc. - not literally.  Still others believe He went away, sent the Comfortor, then He will come again "just as you see Him go away".  Then lines are drawn.  

I'm a "mixture" - a "hybrid".   :laughing7:, and I understand some see it differently.  I believe all of it except the first line.  I believe He came, went away, sent the Comfortor (and indwells us in that manner, and is spiritually amongst us).  I believe in a sense He "visits" us often, coming and coming again through special manifestations and events, etc.  But I still believe that's different than a time we will literally find ourselves in His direct, physical(ly glorified) Presence - the resurrection - the dead in Christ will rise, we will meet Him, etc.  Then He will usher in the next age through the ecclesia/first-fruits/manifest sons, who will rule and reign with Him.  

I think even though some may believe (even parts of) this scenario, they are hesitant to call it a "second coming", because they believe He is often returning.  I just see it as various types of returning perhaps, and that there is still to be a major re-appearing that won't be missed or guessed about.  My  :2c:.  

What "comings were these?"
Mat 28:10  Then saith Jesus to them, `Fear ye not, go away, tell to my brethren that they may go away to Galilee, and there they shall see me.'
Mar 16:14  Afterwards, as they are reclining (at meat), he was manifested to the eleven, and did reproach their unbelief and stiffness of heart, because they believed not those having seen him being raised;
Luk 24:31  AndG1161 theirG846 eyesG3788 were opened,G1272 andG2532 they knewG1921 him;G846 andG2532 heG846 vanishedG1096 G855 out of their sight.G575 G846
Joh 21:7  That disciple, therefore, whom Jesus was loving saith to Peter, `The Lord it is!' Simon Peter, therefore, having heard that it is the Lord, did gird on the outer coat, (for he was naked,) and did cast himself into the sea;

[thinktank]

I would not call those scriptures a coming as such. For he was already here upon the earth, he died on the tree, then he went to the grave for 3 days, just as Jonas was in the belly of the whale for 3 days, then he got resurected, but did not yet ascend to the father "touch me not for I am not ascended to the father", so he went around and appeared to the disciples to confirm his resurection and then he ascends to heaven, where he sits on the right hand of the father "The son interceeds in heaven on our behalf, acts as  our high priest", awaiting for the father to send instruction "no man knows the day or the hour only the father" to return for his bride and then to judge the wicked as spoken in jude when he returns with 10 thousands of his saints to exceute jugment upon the ungoldy.

[jabcat]

"Some believe Jesus will never again be present in His glorified body" Jabcat

Just what is "His glorified body?"

I Corinthians 15:35 But someone may ask, "How will the dead be raised? What kind of bodies will they have?" 36 What a foolish question! When you put a seed into the ground, it doesn't grow into a plant unless it dies first. 37 And what you put in the ground is not the plant that will grow, but only a bare seed of wheat or whatever you are planting. 38 Then God gives it the new body he wants it to have. A different plant grows from each kind of seed. 39 Similarly there are different kinds of flesh—one kind for humans, another for animals, another for birds, and another for fish.
40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies. 41 The sun has one kind of glory, while the moon and stars each have another kind. And even the stars differ from each other in their glory.

42 It is the same way with the resurrection of the dead. Our earthly bodies are planted in the ground when we die, but they will be raised to live forever. 43 Our bodies are buried in brokenness, but they will be raised in glory. They are buried in weakness, but they will be raised in strength. 44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

45 The Scriptures tell us, "The first man, Adam, became a living person."[h] But the last Adam—that is, Christ—is a life-giving Spirit. 46 What comes first is the natural body, then the spiritual body comes later. 47 Adam, the first man, was made from the dust of the earth, while Christ, the second man, came from heaven. 48 Earthly people are like the earthly man, and heavenly people are like the heavenly man. 49 Just as we are now like the earthly man, we will someday be like the heavenly man.

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed! 52 It will happen in a moment, in the blink of an eye, when the last trumpet is blown. For when the trumpet sounds, those who have died will be raised to live forever. And we who are living will also be transformed. 53 For our dying bodies must be transformed into bodies that will never die; our mortal bodies must be transformed into immortal bodies.

54 Then, when our dying bodies have been transformed into bodies that will never die,[j] this Scripture will be fulfilled:

  "Death is swallowed up in victory.[k]
55 O death, where is your victory?
     O death, where is your sting?[l]"

[Molly]

54 Then, when our dying bodies have been transformed into bodies that will never die,[j] this Scripture will be fulfilled:

Amazing, isn't it?  This is just a way station.

[jabcat]

What "comings were these?"
Mat 28:10  Then saith Jesus to them, `Fear ye not, go away, tell to my brethren that they may go away to Galilee, and there they shall see me.'
Mar 16:14  Afterwards, as they are reclining (at meat), he was manifested to the eleven, and did reproach their unbelief and stiffness of heart, because they believed not those having seen him being raised;
Luk 24:31  AndG1161 theirG846 eyesG3788 were opened,G1272 andG2532 they knewG1921 him;G846 andG2532 heG846 vanishedG1096 G855 out of their sight.G575 G846
Joh 21:7  That disciple, therefore, whom Jesus was loving saith to Peter, `The Lord it is!' Simon Peter, therefore, having heard that it is the Lord, did gird on the outer coat, (for he was naked,) and did cast himself into the sea;

Without doing the specific research, weren't all these prior to his ascension?  Before He said "I go to prepare a place..the Comfortor will come"?

[jabcat]

54 Then, when our dying bodies have been transformed into bodies that will never die,[j] this Scripture will be fulfilled:

Amazing, isn't it?  This is just a way station.

Yep.  But for a season...on to bigger and better things.  What's the scripture?  We haven't even imagined the glory that's in store of us, that He is preparing?

I like this from 1way2God.net ;  

These bodies will be imperishable, glorified, powerful and spiritual (this "spiritual" means Spirit-led, not non-physical). Glorification then is simply a return to the way God had created us: perfect.

The redemption that comes by Christ not only saves us, but redeems our bodies - our bodies are set free from the after-effects of the Fall. "And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified." (Rom. 8:30)


What will the Resurrection Bodies Be Like?  
  General attributes:  
*   Imperishable: "So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable" (1 Cor. 15:42).
*   Glorified: "...it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory" (1 Cor. 15:43a).
*   Powerful: "...it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power" (1 Cor. 15:43b).
*   Spiritual (meaning Spirit-led, not non-physical; see below): "...it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body." (1 Cor. 15:44)

[Beloved Servant]

"Some believe Jesus will never again be present in His glorified body" Jabcat

Just what is "His glorified body?"

WE ARE HIS GLORIFIED BODY !

[micah7:9]

GLORY! GLORY! GLORY :happy3:

[Beloved Servant]

THAT"S the Good News!

[micah7:9]

What "comings were these?"
Mat 28:10  Then saith Jesus to them, `Fear ye not, go away, tell to my brethren that they may go away to Galilee, and there they shall see me.'
Mar 16:14  Afterwards, as they are reclining (at meat), he was manifested to the eleven, and did reproach their unbelief and stiffness of heart, because they believed not those having seen him being raised;
Luk 24:31  AndG1161 theirG846 eyesG3788 were opened,G1272 andG2532 they knewG1921 him;G846 andG2532 heG846 vanishedG1096 G855 out of their sight.G575 G846
Joh 21:7  That disciple, therefore, whom Jesus was loving saith to Peter, `The Lord it is!' Simon Peter, therefore, having heard that it is the Lord, did gird on the outer coat, (for he was naked,) and did cast himself into the sea;

Without doing the specific research, weren't all these prior to his ascension?  Before He said "I go to prepare a place..the Comfortor will come"?

You are right, but it was all after the cross. This "second coming" is nothing more than
"church rapture" hype. IF the Comforter was not Jesus, and "another" comforter was not Him, then lets forget the whole thing. Jesus said he will send "another" comforter, He came and that right there is a second or another coming. Just forget all the other "stuff" where in the Bible does speak of a "second coming?"  The witness of His coming again is in me and every saint and believer that has been filled and now led by the Holy Spirit. HE CAME, HE IS COMING, AND HE WILL COME. Selah.

[jabcat]

If read carefully, one might see I've personally never used the term second coming to define how I see it.  I've stated quite carefully my beliefs, and if anyone sees it some other way, well, we've all got our own level of understanding.  I've stated I believe He does dwell among us, and that He comes/is present in various ways.  Maybe there are other issues you're addressing Brother micah;  don't know  :bigGrin:.

Us being His glorified body?  I agree in a sense, but I don't believe that's all it means, or that it's that completely narrowly defined.  There are many facets within the details, multiple layers.  OK, we're the body.  Also though, when Jesus was walking amongst them, He didn't show them themselves - He showed them Himself.  He didn't tell Thomas he needed to touch himself, his own side, his own nail-printed hands.  Jesus was talking about Himself, and I believe I Corinthians 15 is talking about us once resurrected, and IMO, by extension, Jesus after His resurrection. :2c:

Yes, I agree, we're the body and that's good news.  But I believe THE Good News is Jesus Christ, the Son of God, Who loves the world, gave Himself for it, and rose again to redeem us.

But without love, I'm making noise.  

So blessings and peace to you both.  The glass will clear.  :coolsmile: