Marriage in the Resurrection/Heaven?

[Lefein]

In my time of study before I was even introduced to Universal Reconciliation, there was an issue that plagued me very much.  The verse that speaks of no marriage in the resurrection, and the myriad of Christians who would give the most half-patronising answers, and many of these answers made me want to strangle them for reasons that I don't really know why...

Matt 22:30

Answers like:

"You'll have far too many wonderful things to do up there to worry about marriage, or being married", "You won't even notice, or care", "Marriage is an earthly relationship whose purpose was for procreation, you won't need it, you won't want it, you'll be perfectly happy and fulfilled without it", "You'll be perfectly happy even though your wife has been turned solely into your sister in Christ", "she won't be your wife, she'll be your sister in Christ", etc, etc.

Such answers you can find all over the internet, and quite frankly they are very repugnant answers.  I am not yet married, but I know the marriage relationship is the single most important, binding, and highest form of relationship that can be shared between two human beings.  The abolishment of it to be (and not to sound blasphemous by saying it) Fulfilled by being married to Jesus, while your dearest wife becomes your literally over-glorified sister, or coworker who will love you the same way everyone loves each other in heaven, unilaterally, all full of cutesy Utopian equality, where you are loved the same way a complete stranger down the street half a nation away is...(IE: loss of unique relationship)...horrible.

Not that I do not love Jesus, I am certainly a child of God, if I didn't love him I wouldn't be here making this post.  But all of those patronising answers, even, and I dare say especially the "Jesus is the only love you'll want!" answers, feel wrong...and turn my insides into a tight sort of rage that feels like I want to smite the answerer...

On a side note; "Jesus will be your husband", "You'll be married to Jesus!" is especially disturbing due to me being Male.

Basically...In light of discovering Universal Reconciliation, and its applications to Scripture in general, as well as the glorified Life...I've wondered what other answers "Tradition" has flung into Christian thought to "take care of" (albeit hideously!) these tough scriptures.

Any thoughts...or anything at all that might be helpful?

Really, these two concepts were the most troubling things I've experienced in my Christian walk.  And if I can be honest, even the doctrine of Eternal Damnation didn't make me feel as angry as the idea that my future wife and I will be (albeit glorified) a literally over-glorified "Just friends"...

[Quaesitor]

Really, these two concepts were the most troubling things I've experienced in my Christian walk.  And if I can be honest, even the doctrine of Eternal Damnation didn't make me feel as angry as the idea that my future wife and I will be (albeit glorified) a literally over-glorified "Just friends"...

These last lines made me LOL, "over-glorified Just friends" = Epic

There are some who believe that the "like angels" stuff is about the next eon and not eternity, that when God is all in all, we'll return to the Edenic life and have intimacy again. Granted that is pure speculation.

It's funny that you said that and are not married yet, as couples mature, they develop an intimacy which goes further than physical contact, so I guess that thousands of years together would bind a couple with an extemely strong bond.

Honestly, I sure hope I can continue to live a special relationship with my parents, wife, children and friends and not just a generic agape love for every creatures.
God loves the whole world with the same perfect love and yet loves everyone of us in a unique way.

My  :2c:

[WhiteWings]

What if a man or woman was married more than once?
Who should that person be married to in heaven?

[shawn]

Marriage serves a few earthly purposes that will no longer be needed in heaven.  One having children.  Two is spiritual, emotional and physical comfort.  I do not believe new beings will be birthed in heaven...suppose I could be wrong.  And, we will be complete in Christ in the presence of God and will be without spiritual, emotional or physical discomfort.  I also see us having a perfect love for one another and every relationship we have in heaven would be even more fulfilling than an earthly marriage.

I do know if there is any sort of bond with one individual I want that person to be my wife.  She is my best friend and I must admit it distresses me a bit to think about not being married to her in heaven.  And, if I'm being honest I wonder if I will be able to still make love with her in heaven.  What I do know is that anything that distresses me about it...will be relieved.

[shawn]

Really, these two concepts were the most troubling things I've experienced in my Christian walk.  And if I can be honest, even the doctrine of Eternal Damnation didn't make me feel as angry as the idea that my future wife and I will be (albeit glorified) a literally over-glorified "Just friends"...

These last lines made me LOL, "over-glorified Just friends" = Epic

There are some who believe that the "like angels" stuff is about the next eon and not eternity, that when God is all in all, we'll return to the Edenic life and have intimacy again. Granted that is pure speculation.

It's funny that you said that and are not married yet, as couples mature, they develop an intimacy which goes further than physical contact, so I guess that thousands of years together would bind a couple with an extemely strong bond.

Honestly, I sure hope I can continue to live a special relationship with my parents, wife, children and friends and not just a generic agape love for every creatures.
God loves the whole world with the same perfect love and yet loves everyone of us in a unique way.

My  :2c:

Nothing generic about agape.  And I think if any of us were to truly experience it...we wouldn't have these questions.

[jabcat]

Marriage serves a few earthly purposes that will no longer be needed in heaven.  One having children.  Two is spiritual, emotional and physical comfort.  I do not believe new beings will be birthed in heaven...suppose I could be wrong.  And, we will be complete in Christ in the presence of God and will be without spiritual, emotional or physical discomfort.  I also see us having a perfect love for one another and every relationship we have in heaven would be even more fulfilling than an earthly marriage.

I do know if there is any sort of bond with one individual I want that person to be my wife.  She is my best friend and I must admit it distresses me a bit to think about not being married to her in heaven.  And, if I'm being honest I wonder if I will be able to still make love with her in heaven.  What I do know is that anything that distresses me about it...will be relieved.

:goodpost:

[thinktank]

sorry mate as soon as both of you enter heaven, you'll both have to sign divorce papers to enter Zion  :laughing7:

so marriage is a waste of time really  :laughing7:

[CHB]

Hi,

A marrage license is just a piece of paper which you won't need. Not that you won't have a relationship, it just won't be until "death do you part". There won't be any need for a marriage then, we won't need any legal papers to keep us together or separate us. A woman won't need to take the surname of her husband. A woman won't be considered inferior to a man.

In each marriage that the Bible sanctions there is a social curse put on each woman (Gen. 3:16) "In sorrow shall thou bring forth children, and thy desire shall be to thy husband and he shall rule over thee". 

This is still in operation today. There were Biblical rules in marriages, this will not be so in the resurrection. Praise the Lord!!!

Relationships will be much better than marriages today.

CHB

[Lefein]

The root of my fear, is that in the heavenly state of things, she will cease to be the most important created individual to me, or to put it another way; The first priority, amongst the second things - the first things being God...

Likewise...I don't want to be "equal" to everyone else, or everyone else to be "equal" to me in her eyes, nor do I want her to be "equal" to everyone else, and vice versa.  To be honest, I'd rather have few friends, and a thoroughly significant dearest one in Heaven, than every friend, and just friends homogeneously.  I always have such rage at the idea that a whole world of fair weather friends, could some how replace her fiercely guarded spot in my heart, stepping down from her place to become one of a grey mass of some "eternal church congregation".  I do not doubt, that relationships will be strong in Heaven, but it is the "type" of relationship that is my true concern.

I want her to be the crown jewel of my heavenly fellowships (aside from God, but that is a given anyway), not just another coin in the toss.  What use is a mansion, and being a priestly crowned king if there is no queen with you, to enjoy the spleandour with you?  Just a pretty house, and a pretty bit of jewelry on top of a prettified head...But a house is not always a home.

I had imagined how wonderful it would be that she would know that of the countless myriads of people, she is forever more the highest held loved one amongst them, doubtless, and infinitely in love with me, as I am with her...and not in some "sloppy agape" kind of love either, this..."Praise Jesus I love you with the love of the lord my brother, now to go off and play for ten thousand years with these three hundred angels, and all of my new best friends while you stay here and wait for me til I have time for you", but a manifestation of glorious mutual adoration in the sight of God like it should have been from the beginning of Man's existence, woven and one, inseparable by neither angel, nor any glorified man.

On the other side of things, there is a great deal of void in the inner being that friends, and relatives can never fill, neither is it their place.  There is a vast amount of difference in being told "You are handsome" by your dearest, and being told the same by your mother, or a compatriot.

And there are things I do not think I would offer God; I doubt I'd ever kiss Jesus on the lips with passion behind it, or run my fingers through his hair...for obvious reasons.  Even in the innocence of Glorydom.

I may have revealed a bit more about my struggling inner being than I should have, but it is honesty, and honesty hoping for worthwhile comfort, and something solid to lay itself to rest.  

Even Adam surrounded by God, and animal companions was alone...and it wasn't good at all. Deathless infinity is an awfully long time to be lonely.  

[shawn]

While I understand your concerns I believe them to be unwarranted.  First, we don't know how relationships will work in heaven we just know there won't be marriage.  It might be exactly how you desire it to be.  I think most of us want to be special in the eyes of one person.  I know I do.  I want to have intimacy on a different level with one person even in heaven.  That is how I am built.  I was one of those odd little boys who dreamt about his future wife from a very young age.  I adore her and know she was God's gift to me.  So, I do understand but I also know whatever relationships are in heaven they will be more glorious than anything we have experienced on earth.  And that thought brings me peace in the unknown. 

[shawn]

I was just lying in bed with my wife discussing this issue.  I was moved by your distress because I too have had these feelings.  I have come to peace with it knowing whatever it is it will be perfect.  But, while I was joking with my wife that she will probably dump me for Paul as soon as we hit the gates  :grin: something occured to me.  I don't believe loving agape means you don't have special relationships...ones more important to you.  Even Jesus had his inner circle...Peter, James and John.  John refers to himself as the disciple whom Jesus loved.  I always took that as Jesus and John had a special relationship maybe closer than he had to the others.  I believe it's entirely possible to have close relationships with a tight inner circle and still love the rest in heaven agape.  God built us to want that and I think there is a reasonable liklihood that will continue in heaven.

Another thought...we know we can store up treasures in heaven for ourselves.  I wonder if by loving your wife like Christ loves the church if one of your rewards will be to continue your special relationship with your wife in heaven.  And, as my wife already knows I sure hope there is some physical aspects to that as well.   :happygrin:

Anyways, I just wanted to let you know what occured to me and I hope it helps you.  

[Lefein]

Now, there is some solid comfort!

I believe it is time for me to study more deeply the last, great fear of Heaven with this in mind.

Thank you very much friend, and God bless you and your wife.

[shawn]

No problem Lefein.  Your posts have been quite inspirational for me.  I am glad I could return the favor.    :thumbsup:

[anti_nietzsche]

The way I try to see it, our whole way of loving someone in Heaven will be very pure and innocent. I don't know ... we will either love like Methusalems, with a maturity that in this life on Earth is out of our grasp, or we will be more like children. Sometimes in my life that seemed bad for me, because intimacy is a huge blessing in my book, and sometimes when I was a lonely single and worn down by sexual longings that I could not fulfill ... then this idea of spending eternity more like a child really appealed to me.

What I know for sure is that this will not be simply a commandment. God will not simply say you cannot have sex or other kinds of intimacy anymore. Instead it will be coming naturally to us.

Maybe there will be stuff like in the movie Avatar, if you've seen that one, another kind of intimacy.

I have been with God sometimes and His love isn't smaller than marriage love, and neither is it less romantic. So I could imagine if I could come to love others with God's kind of love, I would not feel unfulfilled even when marriage isn't there anymore. Jesus once said that those who do the will of God are His mother, father, sister, brother, etc ... teaching a lesson to his family that was knocking. For me that means that in a christian relationship, the love must flow over to the outside. Family values are very ok, but I do think it's not the most important thing for Jesus. And I actually find that liberating rather than burdening. Especially women often have this atttitude of wanting to do everything for their family and completely leaving other people be and considering them as an intrusion even. That is wrong. If that is carried too far family and marriage only imprison us.

For me the essence of companionship that I see in marriage is the ... companionship which is cradled in faithfulness and love. Doing things as a unit. Doing things together. In Heaven this bond is given to everyone with everyone. I will not have sex with everyone or something like this, but if I ever feel sadness I can go to anyone I see and in Christ I will know them, and they will know me. But of course there will be special love. The best of marriage love will remain, only the sex stuff will be transformed into something else, I guess.

[shawn]

I have always wondered why many Christians don't believe there will be physical intimacy in heaven.  I have to assume it's because of the stigma placed upon one of the most wonderful gifts God has given to a husband and wife.  The Bible is silent on this matter.  And while it may or may not be transformed, altered or gone all together I'm not sure any person can say so with authority.

[Lefein]

I would say it is the stigma.  "Sex is dirty" is a tradition of men in its own right, one that has been ingrained into every mind all over the western world.  Sex outside of marriage is dirty, but tradition, culture, etc - only ever looks at extremes; whoredom, vs. celibacy.

That and, due to the (le'gasp) dark ages church traditions, sex was only, and purely for procreation.  To be pleasured was to be gross, to be intimate in any form other than missionary was a mortal sin, among other things...Essentially, these doctrines have not fully gone away from the western mind, even with the sexual revolution's extremist backlash against it.  In fact, I believe it has turtled Christian intimacy even further into the cold corner.

A boyfriend, or girlfriend, or even sometimes an engaged couple get very dirty looks from the congregation if they are found out to be discussing the topic of sex.  And it is not discussed in youth groups, (from what I've seen) only mentioned in passing as "various temptations you'll experience in high school".

Really, even aside from the whole marriage in Heaven issue; Earthly intimacy is something that needs to be discussed, and taught in the teen years when these questions are being raised, and answers are being begged for.  Not everyone is comfortable opening up to the pastor alone, if the subject is considered taboo in the youth room, or the pulpit-pew.

[shawn]

I would say it is the stigma.  "Sex is dirty" is a tradition of men in its own right, one that has been ingrained into every mind all over the western world.  Sex outside of marriage is dirty, but tradition, culture, etc - only ever looks at extremes; whoredom, vs. celibacy.

I think it's distinctly possible that God will bring physical intimacy into it's perfect fullness.  I think some assume since there is no marriage (at least in the lawful earthly sense) that there will be no physical intimacy.  Why would not God reclaim/restore a beautiful act/gift distorted by Satan?  I see no Biblical reason for God not to bring physical intimacy into perfection.

[Lefein]

I believe it is quite possible that physical intimacy could continue...But I am not sure on the details (different details >////>)

I do have a bit of a problem with the intimacy idea though, atleast on the physical side of things.  Not with the idea itself, but with the way that some have taken it...

I actually read one....well, I'd call it blasphemy and heresy (it made me very angry anyway)...But it was a page talking about all of this, marriage not being in heaven, but replaced, etc.  It all sounded good...up until it got weird, and basically turned all of Heaven into one vast Olympian orgy.

It talked about how in Heaven all of:

"Man's private little selfish marriages and his system of marriage shall be abolished and we'll be free to enjoy each other and have sex with each other all together, all of us, with anyone we desire who is willing!"

I'll say this much, if this is the case...I'll kill the superficial, hypnotised spell of joy I was put under (for if such a thing could truly occur in Heavenly realms, a cursed spell it must be!), and not stand by idle for any over glorified Heathen made Saint who thinks to lay with my eternal dearest.  I'll fling him out of Heaven myself if I have to...

>_> but that could just be my over-protective, Templarian side that no one relates to.  But Heaven or not, cheating is cheating.  And I'll not be cheated on. >:(

As a note of history, this site's view was particularly one of the reasons I grew so very hostile towards the idea of "all encompassing no one is special agape".  ...Odd though, I get rambly, and a bit emotionally charged when this subject comes up, but I can be more academic with just about anything else lol ^^;

I found the site, if anyone wants to see it for reference to things to answer for...I can post it here if I have permission, perhaps a mod could review it.  But I don't want to post anything that might harm less mature minds (like searching guests who might not know fully the truth of things).

[shawn]

I believe it is quite possible that physical intimacy could continue...But I am not sure on the details (different details >////>)

I do have a bit of a problem with the intimacy idea though, atleast on the physical side of things.  Not with the idea itself, but with the way that some have taken it...

I actually read one....well, I'd call it blasphemy and heresy (it made me very angry anyway)...But it was a page talking about all of this, marriage not being in heaven, but replaced, etc.  It all sounded good...up until it got weird, and basically turned all of Heaven into one vast Olympian orgy.

It talked about how in Heaven all of:

"Man's private little selfish marriages and his system of marriage shall be abolished and we'll be free to enjoy each other and have sex with each other all together, all of us, with anyone we desire who is willing!"

I'll say this much, if this is the case...I'll kill the superficial, hypnotised spell of joy I was put under (for if such a thing could truly occur in Heavenly realms, a cursed spell it must be!), and not stand by idle for any over glorified Heathen made Saint who thinks to lay with my eternal dearest.  I'll fling him out of Heaven myself if I have to...

>_> but that could just be my over-protective, Templarian side that no one relates to.  But Heaven or not, cheating is cheating.  And I'll not be cheated on. >:(

I found the site, if anyone wants to see it for reference to things to answer for...I can post it here if I have permission, perhaps a mod could review it.  But I don't want to post anything that might harm less mature minds (like searching guests who might not know fully the truth of things).

That made me chuckle a bit.  Kickin' some butt in the heavenly realms.   :laughing7:  I can't imagine Heaven being one big orgy.  Physical intimacy was created for one man and one woman who have a lifetime commitment to each other.  To extrapolate that into something even many nonbelievers to be vile is short sighted at best.  I think it's very possible that there will be one person who is most special to you in heaven and that you may share physical intimacy.  I believe we will have an inner circle just like Jesus had.  I do not see heaven as some polar opposite of life on earth.  I see heaven as perfection of what God created on earth in many aspects.

[Lefein]

Exactly! *highfive*

...I actually once told myself, and it was maybe a little bit of childish rebellion >_>  But one day in prayer I sort of whispered in my heart:

"She might not be my wife in Heaven, but it doesn't say a thing about not having an eternal girlfriend!"

[shawn]

Exactly! *highfive*

...I actually once told myself, and it was maybe a little bit of childish rebellion >_>  But one day in prayer I sort of whispered in my heart:

"She might not be my wife in Heaven, but it doesn't say a thing about not having an eternal girlfriend!"

:grin:

Who hasn't had moments like that one?  I don't believe for one second that God ignores the desires of your heart or forgets your love and commitment to your wife.  It feels right in my spirit to believe that God will protect those relationships we brought under his headship.  I believe those relationships we cultivate and grow in God he will perfect in heaven. 

Great topic btw.  I love discussing subjects like these.

[Lefein]

As do I friend, it gives relief, and release from heavy burdens.  Fellowship as it should be, if I can be so bold to say so myself :)

[thinktank]

I was hoping there'd be some kind of relationship in heaven, but I can't see it. No flesh and blood body = no sexual longings + Lord in heaven = no more intimacy longings + no marriage in heaven = void + be as a child in heaven = no more adult type relationships.

So I cannot see how there are relationships in heaven, for they asked Jesus who's wife will they be for this man who had many wifes. Jesus didn't say he can pick and choose but said there will no longer be any marriage.


So it looks like were all going to be muted in heaven and be like the apostle Paul, who said "Id rather you be as me"

I still think though we can interact with people and enjoy their company, so the relationship still continues.

[Lefein]

We will have bodies of "flesh and blood" (solidity), only they will be glorified, and spiritual, which is not to say ethereal, but of a higher nature, a righteous nature.

Christ did not come to the apostles in glory as a ghost, he came and ate many times, and was able to be touched, and to touch.  He wasn't a presence, he is a being.

Our resurrection is modeled after his, we are joint heirs in Christ, and joint heirs do not get lesser demoted versions of the reward.

The facts:

Christ was solid, but not bound.  He ate, but could walk through a locked door.

The body is righteous, and spiritual, but not that of a ghostly existence.  It is glorified.

Christ was recognisable, and kept his identity.  He remained male, and remains male to this day, in a glorified male body.  Gender, relationships, God given preferences, God given quirks and uniqueness are a prime part of our Identity, which will be glorified, not shunned.

---

We will be as children, but I suspect we will not be "naive".  Innocent, trusting, dependent, joyful, energetic, playful, youthful (strong, curious, ever learning, imaginative, void of the destructive culture of worldly adulthood; the love of money, greed, strife)

<>---<>---<>

But even in children, there is a knowing that boys and girls are to be together, despite the strange..."cooties" thing, which I never had to deal with.

I don't think the intimacy of Heaven, if the physical aspect still exists (it is not said to not exist, sola scriptura), it will not be out of longing, but of fulfilling the over-abundance of love for that "soul-mate".  

Something perhaps like; "I love you so much, I must express it, and a hug simply will not do".

[thinktank]

We will have bodies of "flesh and blood" (solidity), only they will be glorified, and spiritual, which is not to say ethereal, but of a higher nature, a righteous nature.

Christ did not come to the apostles in glory as a ghost, he came and ate many times, and was able to be touched, and to touch.  He wasn't a presence, he is a being.

Our resurrection is modeled after his, we are joint heirs in Christ, and joint heirs do not get lesser demoted versions of the reward.

The facts:

Christ was solid, but not bound.  He ate, but could walk through a locked door.

The body is righteous, and spiritual, but not that of a ghostly existence.  It is glorified.

Christ was recognisable, and kept his identity.  He remained male, and remains male to this day, in a glorified male body.  Gender, relationships, God given preferences, God given quirks and uniqueness are a prime part of our Identity, which will be glorified, not shunned.

---

We will be as children, but I suspect we will not be "naive".  Innocent, trusting, dependent, joyful, energetic, playful, youthful (strong, curious, ever learning, imaginative, void of the destructive culture of worldly adulthood; the love of money, greed, strife)

<>---<>---<>

But even in children, there is a knowing that boys and girls are to be together, despite the strange..."cooties" thing, which I never had to deal with.

I don't think the intimacy of Heaven, if the physical aspect still exists (it is not said to not exist, sola scriptura), it will not be out of longing, but of fulfilling the over-abundance of love for that "soul-mate".  

Something perhaps like; "I love you so much, I must express it, and a hug simply will not do".

I hope your right. But when Jesus was glorified, he did not have carnal desires, he may have eaten, but knowing a woman is carnally minded, which is death. Loving someone can be expressed in other ways, but loving getting to know someone is a bodily carnal activity. So there might be a higher expression of love in heaven, where we no longer need to make love, but rather we express it through kind words and a kiss so that marriage is no longer a done thing. For without the lusts of the flesh, there would be no desire for sexual activity, a bit like how an old couple are married but no longer desire sexual activity or some folks out there who have cruxified their carnal desires and no longer have need for sexual activity, such as Paul.

I did receive an interesting thought though about who we are as people, and it might shed some light on this topic here, if I decide to share it.