Statements to understand UR theology. Please give biblical answers only.

[dboutwell]

 ChosenofGod,
I understood UR theology coming from eternal torment theology when I understood the fact that we were made for God but God will correct us until we see our need for Him. Here are my answers to your questions.

1) The sins of the wicked being forgiven in the after life.

I don't know that anyone teaches that sin is forgiven in the after life. Paul said sin was dealt with at the cross.

2 Cor 5: 19  that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. If God is not holding your sin against you, what would you need to be forgiven for?


2) The wicked repenting in the after life.

Evidently, if one does not repent in this life, he will in the next one. It is not so important when it happens..what is so awesome is that it is going to happen. We were made by Him and for Him.
Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent.   
Jer 31:34 -
And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1 Corinthians 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.


3) The wicked accepting Jesus Christ in the after life.

Again, the "when" is not important. The fact is that they will. 
Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent.   
John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
Matthew 23:39   For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. (this is after He condemned them to Hell v 15 and 33)

4) The wicked avoiding judgment in the after life.

I don't believe the wicked will avoid judgment in the afterlife.

5) The wicked having sin "conditioned" out of them in the after life.

I don't believe this concept is a Universal Salvation teaching. If it is it is not what I believe, personally. The terms "brimstone" and "torment" indicate the purpose of the lake of fire. It is not to "condition" sin out of anyone. It is to reveal the true state of that person who has not yielded his will yet to the One who has all power. (his hardened, stubborn, condition) The statements of the Lord,(previously posted) Himself, show that all will submit/repent. Again, I say, if not in this life, then it has to be after this one.

6) God tormenting the wicked in the lake of fire (presumably to condition sin out of the wicked).

False presumption on your part.

7) The wicked getting out of the lake of fire.

God is merciful to all who call on Him.

Romans 10:9-11 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Matthew 23:39  For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. (this is after He condemned them to Hell v 15 and 33)
Matthew 26:45And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: (means correction)but the righteous into life eternal.

8) Nor can I find anywhere that God repents of His judgment on Satan in the afterlife, or anywhere else. Satan was condemned by the Almighty in Genesis chapter three.
9) Nor do I see any evidence that God will acquit any fallen angel ever.

All Christian Universalist don't believe this. I'm not sure where I stand yet.

10) Nor do I see all peoples being saved in the after life.

They are not all saved in the afterlife. Some are saved before they die.

...I am not able to "bold" or change color on these repies...not very easy to read..sorry

Debbie

[Zero7]

COG,

Please excuse my late entry into this discussion. I'm not a real big poster here but lurk a lot.

I am hoping you would be so kind as to answer a sincere question for me.

What do YOU think the afterlife will be like for the damned?

Just curious.

Thank you in advance.

[lee100]

Hey COG37,

Very tough statements to prove biblically. I hope some one can. I just posted my first topic can you go th the homepage and give me your take. Thanks.

[claypot]

ChosenofGod,
I understood UR theology coming from eternal torment theology when I understood the fact that we were made for God but God will correct us until we see our need for Him. Here are my answers to your questions.

1) The sins of the wicked being forgiven in the after life.

I don't know that anyone teaches that sin is forgiven in the after life. Paul said sin was dealt with at the cross.

2 Cor 5: 19  that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. If God is not holding your sin against you, what would you need to be forgiven for?


2) The wicked repenting in the after life.

Evidently, if one does not repent in this life, he will in the next one. It is not so important when it happens..what is so awesome is that it is going to happen. We were made by Him and for Him.
Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent.   
Jer 31:34 -
And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1 Corinthians 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.


3) The wicked accepting Jesus Christ in the after life.

Again, the "when" is not important. The fact is that they will. 
Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent.   
John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
Matthew 23:39   For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. (this is after He condemned them to Hell v 15 and 33)

4) The wicked avoiding judgment in the after life.

I don't believe the wicked will avoid judgment in the afterlife.

5) The wicked having sin "conditioned" out of them in the after life.

I don't believe this concept is a Universal Salvation teaching. If it is it is not what I believe, personally. The terms "brimstone" and "torment" indicate the purpose of the lake of fire. It is not to "condition" sin out of anyone. It is to reveal the true state of that person who has not yielded his will yet to the One who has all power. (his hardened, stubborn, condition) The statements of the Lord,(previously posted) Himself, show that all will submit/repent. Again, I say, if not in this life, then it has to be after this one.

6) God tormenting the wicked in the lake of fire (presumably to condition sin out of the wicked).

False presumption on your part.

7) The wicked getting out of the lake of fire.

God is merciful to all who call on Him.

Romans 10:9-11 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Matthew 23:39  For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. (this is after He condemned them to Hell v 15 and 33)
Matthew 26:45And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: (means correction)but the righteous into life eternal.

8) Nor can I find anywhere that God repents of His judgment on Satan in the afterlife, or anywhere else. Satan was condemned by the Almighty in Genesis chapter three.
9) Nor do I see any evidence that God will acquit any fallen angel ever.

All Christian Universalist don't believe this. I'm not sure where I stand yet.

10) Nor do I see all peoples being saved in the after life.

They are not all saved in the afterlife. Some are saved before they die.

...I am not able to "bold" or change color on these repies...not very easy to read..sorry

Debbie

I thought that was excellent, Deb

cp

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Hi; Just letting the above posters know that CoG37 has been banned and therefore will not be responding to your comments. Blessings....

[claypot]

:cloud9: Hi; Just letting the above posters know that CoG37 has been banned and therefore will not be responding to your comments. Blessings....

What about maybe cog under another name? Or a cog wannabe?

cp

[martincisneros]

:cloud9: Hi; Just letting the above posters know that CoG37 has been banned and therefore will not be responding to your comments. Blessings....

Gary Amirault (owner of this website) had been dealing with him for the longest via email, and had given him tons and tons and tons of materials, proofs, resources, Scriptures, et. al., and cog37 wasn't the least bit interested.  He was banned over his lack of character and lack of fruit of the spirit rather than over the content of his posts.  I'd of allowed him to have posted another 10,000 posts, had he simply not been abusive.  And his ban included being banned by IP, so, not likely that he'd be back under any other name and either nicer about it or undetected by other means.  I plead with cog37 to be more agreeable in his attitude even if not in his content, but he wouldn't listen about this not being the place for target practice.  So, to avoid the tempers that were flaring at him as much as to deal firmly with his abusiveness, he had to go. 

Gary's very interested in reviewing all of his posts, but already knows who this Aaron Curry is, and without going into further details here from Gary's emails to me about it, it's basically a Calvinist Charismatic.  Had Gary wished it to continue, I'd of gladly PMed WillieH, Tony Nungesser, and quite a few others about it being open season on a Calvinist and Gary issuing temporary hunting licenses, but he was evidently only mildly amused at the suggestion and Gary hasn't gotten back to me on that.  These boards are not places of debate, hence Gary had the debate board pulled before I became admin.  But disagreeing opinions are welcomed just as much as those of Restorationists.  But disagreeable attitudes aren't!!  Quite a few folks have been on thin ice around here about that before that are regulars and I wasn't going to soften that up just over bending over backwards for a contrary opinion.  His content wasn't the issue, but his attitude as hopefully is abundantly clear with his 176 posts in 3.5 days where all he basically did was spam and bark at us.

[claypot]

Sounds good and fair and wise to me, Martin.

cp

[lee100]

martin,

I can't say i'm not  disappointed about banning COG37. after reading his threads and some of the responses of other people on this forum there behavior IMO was worse than his. i see zeal in cog37 in what he believes and to say that you would of had open season on him because he was a Calvinist Charasmatic seems to me that your behavior and attitude would of been the same of that which COG was banned for. am i wrong?

[Doc]

martin,

I can't say i'm not  disappointed about banning COG37. after reading his threads and some of the responses of other people on this forum there behavior IMO was worse than his. i see zeal in cog37 in what he believes and to say that you would of had open season on him because he was a Calvinist Charasmatic seems to me that your behavior and attitude would of been the same of that which COG was banned for. am i wrong?

Hi Aaron (or perhaps Aaron's friend). So after reading Martin's post, it would seem that you're back under a new ISP, or perhaps one of your friend's. You may be posting from a different ISP, (perhaps from a local library or something) but there are trademarks to your style, errors, and so on as well as a number of other pieces of circumstantial evidence that you're very likely either Aaron or one of his friends.

[Shawn_71]

I think it was disrespectful to open up so many simultaneous threads. It's obvious what his intentions and strategies were.

There was no way he could answer all those questions, which he didn't. He just tried to create problems and he failed.


1 Timothy 4:10 (King James Version)

10For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.


'who is the Saviour of all men,'....this doesn't need to be interpreted and the rest of the sentence doesn't undo it.

[preistsplace]

I agree with the Admin deciscion ,it is one thing to post about your beleifs and ask questions, It is another thing to spam about your beleifes on a site that is obviosly for those who are genuinely curious or genuine believers.And there is no need to be cofrontational about it  (not saying that I am or never have felt that way or perhaps postedsomething that could have been taken as such) .

[lee100]

I agree, cog open up way to many threads, but martins comments about having open season on his calvinistic charasmatic beliefs is the same behavior you accuse him of. are you any better?

[peacemaker]

"The prodigal son has returned; virtue beyond death."

peacemaker :boogie:

[WhiteWings]

And his ban included being banned by IP,

An IP ban can be bypassed quite easlily in several ways.

These boards are not places of debate, ....  But disagreeing opinions are welcomed

A very vague statement (for me). There is no white and black. Only shades of grey. And it often is hard to tell when the grey has turned to dark. Just my personal opinion but I think debates shouldn't be banned. The problem doesn't lay in debating but in angry posts. And anger always in counter productive. Unless you are an arms dealer... :laughing7:

(Martin plz check your PM)

[claypot]

I agree, cog open up way to many threads, but martins comments about having open season on his calvinistic charasmatic beliefs is the same behavior you accuse him of. are you any better?

I am no better than Martin, are you lee?

cp