Statements to understand UR theology. Please give biblical answers only.

[ChosenofGod37]

Willie,

you said:

To begin with, something which is "TAKEN AWAY", is no longer present.  If the SIN of the WORLD is "taken away" (which is WHAT is STATED in this verse)... then it is no longer an ISSUE which must be dealt with... the FORGIVENESS for SIN, is found in it being "TAKEN AWAY"...  


Wrong. Dead Wrong.

You must repent and believe in Jesus as Lord to have your sins taken away in this lifetime or other wise you die in your sins. Jesus said:

John 8:24 " Therefore, I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins"

You want to try again? Where are the scriptures that support the sins of the wicked being forgiven after they die?  

[Seth]

Greg, You must repent and believe in Jesus as Lord to have your sins taken away in this lifetime or other wise you die in your sins. Jesus said:

John 8:24 " Therefore, I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins"

This statement "to have your sins taken away in this lifetime or other wise you die in your sins" cannot be applied to the above scripture. Jesus does not say "in this lifetime." He just says "you will die in your sin." You ASSUME that means mortal death. Do you remember Christ's words: Let the dead bury the dead.

Do you realize that people are dead in sin even while they are still conscious and animated? This is just more example of you PLACING meaning on scriptures which are not stated, without giving scriptural witness to back up your interpretation.

I interpret John 8:24 by understanding "let the dead bury the dead" (Christ's words) showing that dying in sin has nothing to do with dying mortally. Christ's words for John 8:24 me leaving me no reason to assume what is not stated. Anytime someone is a slave to sin they ARE dying in sin, having nothing to do with dying mortally and that being their only "chance" for redemption. To wit, Jesus did not say that they would not eventually be delivered from sin, only that they would be dying in sin. Everyone is dying in sin until being delivered.

[willieH]

Willie,

Where are the scriptures that support the sins of the wicked being forgiven after they die?  :dontknow:

Let's face it CoG37... you are not here to LEARN or to be TAUGHT... you envision yourself a "teacher" rather than a "student"...

If you would hold your tongue a taste, and read the comments made on statement #2... which more than notes that the SINS of the "WICKED" -- which "wicked",  btw also INCLUDES YOU... are ALL taken AWAY...

All you have done is bad mouthed the body of Christ and said sin is taken away and no longer present quoting John 1:29.

CoG37... I haven't "bad mouthed" anyone... GOD has called to you to COME OUT of BABYLON, and YOU of your own volition, "CHOOSE" to remain in it... If in calling BABYLON for what it is, is "bad mouthing" as you see it, than so be it...

CHRIST said that upon His return -- "shall the Son of Man find FAITH on the earth" -- Luke 18:8 --

Presently there are over 2.5 BILLION people claiming they have the FAITH of CHRIST... does that appear to YOU, to be a literally INVISIBLE number, CoG37?  :mshock:   CHRIST will see these, but FAITH which HE is looking to find, will NOT be present... for LOVE of the TRUTH, is the FAITH He seeks, not the DELUSION of lies which shall befall MOST who profess Him... Are you even reading your Bible at all?

THEY, as yourself, "choose" to IGNORE the presentation and call of the TRUTH... and thereby shall find SHAME for that choice -- Rev 3:18 -- 1 Thess 2:10-11 -- "choosing" to believe in fallacy...

CHRIST said (and YOU ignore):

Matt 7:22-23 -- MANY will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not PROPHESIED in Thy name, and in Thy name cast out many devils, and in Thy name done many WONDERFUL works... and then will I PROFESS unto THEM -- I never KNEW YOU, ...depart from Me, ye that WORK INIQUITY.

These are BELIEVERS CoG37!  Open your eyes!  They call Him "LORD", and this cannot be done except by the Holy Spirit...  :dontknow:

Yeah... CHRIST will "see these" all right, ...and then proceed to, "BAD MOUTH" them... (as you put it)

Stick with those 2.5 BILLION "bad mouthed" Christians CoG37, see what happens...  :dontknow:  See if He "bad mouths" you too...  :sigh:

To qualify for your sins to be taken away..you must repent and Believe.

I have already addressed this, read it.  :nod:

If a person dies in their sins they have not believed in Jesus. So again, how and where are the sins of the wicked forgiven after they die.

You think in linear, carnal and physical terms... until you are willing to abandon BABYLON your questions will continue to go unanswered, for in this carnality, ...you cannot see or hear the answer when it is presented to you...

The final Judgment of MEN is COMPLETED on the LAST DAY -- John 12:48 --  as well as RESURRECTION.  

In this moment of JUDGMENT (which is NOT a "bad" thing - Isaiah 26:9) they will LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS, fall to the knee, and CONFESS CHRIST...

Let him that hath EARS, ...hear.  Do you have EARS, CoG37? :dunno:

Probably not...  :sigh:

...willieH  :cloud9:

[ChosenofGod37]

Ron,

Before or after the cross does not matter( Rev 13:8). Jesus says you must believe in Me or you will die in your sins.

[gregoryfl]

Ok, then how do you understand Jesus' taking away the sin of the world? Is it a conditional taking away, a potential one, based on repentance? Is that how you understand it? When scripture says he came to put an end to sin, I think I know what you will say to that, but what is it you understand that to mean?

Ron

[ChosenofGod37]

Seth,
you said:
I interpret John 8:24 by understanding "let the dead bury the dead" (Christ's words) showing that dying in sin has nothing to do with dying mortally. Christ's words for John 8:24 me leaving me no reason to assume what is not stated. Anytime someone is a slave to sin they ARE dying in sin, having nothing to do with dying mortally and that being their only "chance" for redemption. To wit, Jesus did not say that they would not eventually be delivered from sin, only that they would be dying in sin. Everyone is dying in sin until being delivered.

I disagree Seth with your interpretation. Jesus emphasized the "unless you believe" fatal, unforgivable and eternal sin if failure to believe in Him as Messiah and Son of God. Jesus is crystal clear unless you believe you will die in your sins.If you die in your sins..you have not believed.

[willieH]

Willie,

you said:

To begin with, something which is "TAKEN AWAY", is no longer present.  If the SIN of the WORLD is "taken away" (which is WHAT is STATED in this verse)... then it is no longer an ISSUE which must be dealt with... the FORGIVENESS for SIN, is found in it being "TAKEN AWAY"...  


Wrong. Dead Wrong.

:laugh: :LH: :laughhand:

"WRONG" according to what? YOU?  Please! :rolleye:  

The only way you or anyone can determine another WRONG" is by comparing their own VISION of the WORD to their opponents observation...  Such practice only reveals you have much growing to do concerning Spiritual matters...  :JCThink:

NO one is "WRONG", nor are they "RIGHT"... we are either VEILED or REVEALED, and it is GOD's choice as to which areas we shall gain TRUTHFUL vision...

You propose me to be "wrong" by using you own pathetic vision as the measure of "right"   :pointlaugh: Please, spare me!  :laughing7:

You must repent and believe in Jesus as Lord to have your sins taken away in this lifetime or other wise you die in your sins. Jesus said:

John 8:24 " Therefore, I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins"

You want to try again? Where are the scriptures that support the sins of the wicked being forgiven after they die?  

JESUS said they would die in their SINS, ...He did not SAY they would not be SAVED!  That, dear friend is YOUR ASSUMPTION...

The HOLY SPIRIT of YHVH inspired PAUL to write:

1 Cor 3:11-15 -- SAVED so as BY FIRE...

If you don't get it, ...well,  ...you don't get it, CoG37!  :dontknow:

Like I said -- repetitions are not going to avail anything, ...you do not have EARS to hear, so repeating myself won't enable understanding forya...  :mpardon:

...willieH  :icon_king:

[Seth]

I disagree Seth with your interpretation. Jesus emphasized the fatal "unless you believe" unforgivable and eternal sin if failure to believe in Him as Messiah and Son of God. Jesus is crystal clear unless you believe you will die in your sins.If you die in your sins..you have not believed.

If anything He emphasized the fatal aspect of sin even while being mortally alive. I don't mind that you disagree with the interpretation I have given, but it is sound exegesis based on the Biblical explanation of what being dead in sin means and how dying in sin does not necessitate mortal death.

You are probably arguing against something I do not believe. To be free from death in sin, you must believe because the supernatural work of the Holy Spirit is what delivers us from death in sin.

None of this gives me reason to think that John 8:24 teaches that those he was speaking to would not eventually be delivered. It simply says "You will die in your sin." Period. That's it. Anything beyond that without scriptural proof is your own assumption: that John 8:24 teaches that dying in sin equates to a last chance scenario. Sorry, it doesn't state that.

It only reinforces the current death-state of those who are slaves to sin. Attempting to use that scripture as a proof text for limited salvation is faulty.

[j.]

Willie,

Where are the scriptures that support the sins of the wicked being forgiven after they die? 

There aren't any, but not for the reasons you assume.

The problem of sin was dealt with, once for all, by God through Christ at the cross. Let's go a step further: the Lamb was "slain before the foundation of the world", so God had already put in place the final solution to the problem of sin. However, we don't see it yet, as we still see the here and now (because we are bound by time and space), but God sees the complete picture (because He isn't bound by time and space).

Your sin wasn't forgiven when you "made a decision" to follow Christ; it was taken care of before the world was ever formed.  

[ChosenofGod37]

J,

agreed, Christ's death was timeless (Rev13:8) but the elect need to come to repentance and faith in Jesus for it to be applied. (Galatians 4-7)

[willieH]

willieH: Hey CoG37 --  :icon_flower:

Your "statements" contain MORE FALLACY as they go along -- eh?  AFTERLIFE? ACCEPTING CHRIST?  Neither of these are IN the SCRIPTURES...

As if GOD has to be "accepted" by SINFUL humanity! :rolleye:

Come on, admit it, ...you don't have a Bible, doya?  :winkgrin: (just kidn'ya)  :friendstu:

Now to address your 3rd UNSCRIPTURAL "statement":

PLEASE GIVE BOOK ,CHAPTER AND VERSE IN THE BIBLE FOR THE FOLLOWING STATEMENTS:

    1) The sins of the wicked being forgiven in the after life.

    2) The wicked repenting in the after life.

    3) The wicked accepting Jesus Christ in the after life.

Now here's a beaut!  :laughing7:  You seem embedded in the "afterlife"  :laughing7:  Have you found a verse that mentions this mythical entity?  :happygrin:

ALL humans are "WICKED" CoG37 -- including (hate to be the one to tellya) ...YOU... anything about YOU that might be observed as "RIGHTEOUS", is CHRIST in you, ...NOT YOU! 

All you and I amount to (and everyone else)... is DESPARATELY WICKED hearts -- Jer 17:9

FIRST -- please name BOOK, CHAPTER and VERSE which says that ANYONE must "ACCEPT CHRIST"

SECOND -- It is not up to US to "accept" Him, we cannot even DO THIS.  It is up to HIM (the Shepherd) to SEEK and to SAVE the SHEEP -- Luke 19:10 -- the "SHEEP" don't SAVE themselves, CoG37!  They are of the dumbest creatures in existence!

Did YOU "save" yourself?  Do you really think YOU found CHRIST?  :laughing7:  As you "see it" He was lost and YOU "found" Him - eh?  :laughing7:

Hey... I spent my time in BABYLON... (around 24yrs) and am SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO happy to be OUT of it (9+ years)...

So though I might poke fun at you a bit here & there, I DO understand the chains that bind and imprison you. :pitiful:

...willieH  :HeartThrob:
   

[j.]

J,

agreed, Christ's death was timeless (Rev13:8) but the elect need to come to repentance and faith in Jesus for it to be applied. (Galatians 4-7)

And Galatians 4:7 has exactly what to do with the point you are trying to make?

The cross was sufficient for all mankind. When we "repent" (literally, "change our thinking"), it is because we have had Christ revealed in us (not to us) by the Spirit, and we know that "Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord", and this it will happen in a fashion that will bring glory to God.

This isn't about your decision, your choice, or your ability to live circumspectly. It's about what He did. The sooner you see that, the easier it will be to believe that God is the savior of ALL mankind. 

[willieH]

PLEASE GIVE BOOK ,CHAPTER AND VERSE IN THE BIBLE FOR THE FOLLOWING STATEMENTS:

    1) The sins of the wicked being forgiven in the after life.

    2) The wicked repenting in the after life.

    3) The wicked accepting Jesus Christ in the after life.

    4) The wicked avoiding judgment in the after life.

More "AFTERLIFE" --  :laughing7: so far 4 "statements" and ALL of them contain the UNSCRIPTURAL connotation "AFTERLIFE"... Get a clue!  There is NO "AFTERLIFE"...

It amazes me that one such as yourself, considers himself "read" on the Scriptures, and continually separates Himself from "the WICKED", as if YOU are "righteous"!  (See Matt 7:22-23 for folks which claim themselves as DOERS of RIGHTEOUSNESS... you have been warned!)

As well as REPEAT over and over, UN-Scriptural terminology, ...then has the audacity to  REQUIRE of us SCRIPTURE to verify our beliefs... go figure! :wacko2:

If you have SINNED, CoG37, ...then YOU are WICKED... YOUR SIN put CHRIST to death... YOUR EVIL WORKS were the hammer & nails... YOU are not separate from any of the rest of the Human race in this respect.  YOU are guilty as charged... YOU put Him to death, get used to it!  Stop trying to delegate YOUR WICKEDNESS to others which have yet to see their SAVIOR... THAT is what is WICKED!

The INTENT of the natural heart is SIN... NONE seek after GOD, ...NO ...NOT ...ONE!  -- Rom 3:10-12 -- Psalms 14:1-3 -- Including YOU!

No one "avoids JUDGMENT" bro!  JUDGMENT -- BEGINS -- At the house of GOD -- 1 Pet 4:17 --

The BOOKS" are open... one at a time, all life long...

JESUS said:

John 12:31 -- The JUDGMENT of THIS WORLD, is NOW... -- not tomorrow or a week from tuesday!  :dontknow:

When JESUS spoke, NONE of His WORDS were idle!  He MEANT what He SAID!  If He said the JUDGMENT is NOW, then the JUDGMENT is NOW!  See -- Rev 20:12 -- OUR LIVES are the BOOKS that are OPENED...

...willieH  :cloud9:

[willieH]

PLEASE GIVE BOOK ,CHAPTER AND VERSE IN THE BIBLE FOR THE FOLLOWING STATEMENTS:

    1) The sins of the wicked being forgiven in the after life.

    2) The wicked repenting in the after life.

    3) The wicked accepting Jesus Christ in the after life.

    4) The wicked avoiding judgment in the after life.

    5) The wicked having sin "conditioned" out of them in the after life.

Well one thing can be said forya... you are CONSISTENT in your UNSCRIPTURAL notations!  :laughing7:

No one is having SIN "conditioned" out of them.  Did you have this done?  If GOD is NO RESPECTER of PERSONS (which He IS)... Then He shall "process" us ALL in the same manner.

The ELECT are those who are chosen to be involved in the MISSION and PURPOSE of YHVH...

CHRIST paid for SIN... and no amount of torment or "penance" can remove even ONE SIN... Only His BLOOD and redeeming sacrifice, can remove it from our lives...

Maybe its time to ask you a question... What is the PURPOSE of YHVH?  Why are we going through all of this CoG37?  Do you have the slightest idea?

No "conditioning" is done either in the ones CALLED to know CHRIST in this life, or in the RESURRECTION... CHRIST removed SIN -- John 1:29 -- but it takes the heart of FAITH to believe what IS WRITTEN...

It takes the heart of DECEIT to say SIN remains (and therefore needs "conditioning")... telling the WORLD (God SO LOVED) a LIE... in place of the TRUTH that CHRIST -- TOOK AWAY -- the SIN of the WORLD...

Btw... John 1:29 ...DOES NOT SAY -- "behold the lamb of God that taketh away the SIN of the "ELECT" -- and it ...DOES NOT SAY -- "behold the lamb of God that taketh away the SIN of SOME" 

but it DOES SAY:

John 1:29 -- behold the Lamb of God that TAKETH AWAY the SIN of the ...WORLD!

And the Apostle John repeated this here:

1 John 2:2 -- and He is the propitiation for OUR SINS, and NOT for OURS ONLY, ...but also for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD...

The stubborness of your RELIGION will not submit to the TRUTH, and therefore does not LOVE the TRUTH... and shall suffer the SHAME  ...of that sorrowful position, when time is fulfilled.

Stick with the 2.5 BILLION others that will join you in that (learning the "HARD WAY") experience, CoG37...  :sigh: 

Let me REPEAT my question to you (not that you will answer it - or even HAVE an answer)

Maybe its time to ask you a question...

What is the PURPOSE of YHVH?  Why are we going through all of this CoG37?  Do you have the slightest idea?

...willieH  :HeartThrob: 

[Beloved Servant]

Hey Willie H:


   wow.

[ChosenofGod37]

Hey Willie,

Blood servant I Don't know what you Wow is about.

yousaid:
The ELECT are those who are chosen to be involved in the MISSION and PURPOSE of YHVH...

Where in the bible does it say this?

[Cardinal]

Cog,
It seems you have too many irons in the fire and can not keep up with everyone that has asked you questions.
Poor planning that you should keep in mind for the next Web site you plan to visit.

:cloud9:  :laughing7: Blessings....

[Beloved Servant]

Cog, are you addressing Willie and myself in the same post?
If you're calling me Blood Servant, I'll give that another, wow!
I like that, a lot.
For the precious Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ is limitless.

[martincisneros]

Hey Willie,

Blood servant I Don't know what you Wow is about.

yousaid:
The ELECT are those who are chosen to be involved in the MISSION and PURPOSE of YHVH...

Where in the bible does it say this?

Acts 15:

15And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

16After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

17That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

18Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.


Lots of other passages on this.  Genuinely surprised you don't know them already!

[gregoryfl]

Hey Willie,

Blood servant I Don't know what you Wow is about.

yousaid:
The ELECT are those who are chosen to be involved in the MISSION and PURPOSE of YHVH...

Where in the bible does it say this?

Right here.

Eph 3:10 to the intent that now through the assembly the manifold wisdom of God might be made known to the principalities and the powers in the heavenly places.

Now you are wondering perhaps, it says nothing about the elect, nor are the words mission or purpose there. Ah my brother, but it is. Think about it.

[ChosenofGod37]

Willie,

JESUS said they would die in their SINS, ...He did not SAY they would not be SAVED!  That, dear friend is YOUR ASSUMPTION...

COG: Ok, show me in the bible where someone dies in their sins and their sins are forgiven. :dontknow:


you said:
The HOLY SPIRIT of YHVH inspired PAUL to write

1 Cor 3:11-15 -- SAVED so as BY FIRE...

If you don't get it, ...well,  ...you don't get it, CoG37!  

Like I said -- repetitions are not going to avail anything, ...you do not have EARS to hear, so repeating myself won't enable understanding forya...  Pardon

COG: The believers works are judged. The Quality of the materials (Gold, silver, precious stones ) represent dedicated , spiritual service to build the church. ( wood, hay, stubble) represent inferior materials implying shallow activity with no eternal value. The fire represent God's discerning judgment. Christ has paid the price so their is no judgment of sin. No matter how worthless one's works are, no believer will forfeit salvation.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Do you actually know what salvation is CoG? What is it to you, just a fire escape plan? Blessings....

[ChosenofGod37]

Hey Greg,

Eph 3:10 teaches God, through the church  manifests His glory to all angels both holy and unholy. Although they have no desire or capacity to praise God, even fallen angels see the glory of God in the salvation and preservation of the church.

[willieH]

willieH: Hi CoG37 --  :happy3:

Even though you don't deserve an answer (because you have yet to answer questions of YOU in my posts), I will rise above and show you, ...areya ready? 

Or is your "RELIGION" turned up so high so you can't hear anyone or anything, but yourself?  :thinking:  :shakepoint:

We'll see...  :dontknow:

Hey Willie,

yousaid:
The ELECT are those who are chosen to be involved in the MISSION and PURPOSE of YHVH...

Where in the bible does it say this?

Rom 9:11-12 -- For being NOT YET BORN, neither having done GOOD or EVIL, that the PURPOSE of GOD according to ...ELECTION... might stand, NOT of works, but OF HIM that CALLETH -- It was said unto her, THE ELDER SHALL SERVE THE YOUNGER...

Jacob and Esau did not have a CHOICE concerning their lives... and neither do you.

GOD's ELECTION is about HIS PURPOSE, and HE sets those according to HIS PURPOSE to DO as HE CALLS them to do... that HIS PURPOSE and MISSION be completed according to HIS ELECTION, not the will and choices of men...

Here is a 2nd witness of this:

Eph 2:10 -- for we are HIS WORKMANSHIP created IN CHRIST JESUS unto GOOD WORKS, ...which GOD HATH BEFORE ORDAINED that WE SHOULD WALK IN THEM

ANYTHING that GOD ORDAINS, cannot occur otherwise.  Which means that these which are CREATED to be IN CHRIST JESUS, and UNTO GOOD WORKS, must WALK in those GOOD WORKS...

Now its YOUR TURN to answer a few questions "Mr. [CoG37] Theologian"...  :dontknow:

...willieH  :HeartThrob:

[willieH]

Hey Willie H:


   wow.

:friendstu:

...willieH  :HeartThrob: