Natural and Spiritual

[Zeek]

I don't disagree with the standing . . .it's the warring I have issues with.  In Revelation, it says we are priests and kings . . are they dressed for battle then?

Those  BORN from ABOVE, then the Battle has been won , the battle remains for the Child\babe who are swayed by every WIND of Doctrine ( Primerilly law) holding to the ordinances of OLD.

:icon_flower: BINGO!!!   :ty: :Urock: :first:

:icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower:

:bgdance: :bgdance: :bgdance: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


hmm, not sure why this is in blue.   :icon_flower:

[Nathan]

For me there's a big difference between putting on battle armor and standing . . . and entering into the person of rest.  Standing is not resting.

[Molly]

For me there's a big difference between putting on battle armor and standing . . . and entering into the person of rest.  Standing is not resting.

It is if you are holding the ark on your shoulders.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Thanks Taffy and Nate.........this is something He gave me awhile back but I thought it might help explain what we're all seeing from our different vantage points in the body. The first part pertains to why the Pharisees accused Jesus of casting out demons through Satan. But if you read on, I think you'll see why this is pertinent. Blessings....

      :Book: The Pharisees accused Him of casting out demons (could be sicknesses, evil spirits as well) by an evil spirit. The Pharisees were well aware of the fact from Deut. and other books that GOD set up this as a part of the OT covenant curses. So in fact, what they were asking Him is by whose authority do you do these things (including healing the man on the Sabbath day), because we know this demon/sickness is a judgment established by GOD for disobedience, and carried out by Satan. So since God AUTHORIZED it; for You, Jesus, to UNDO it, must mean it's an EVIL spirit in You, Jesus, OPPOSING what we know by the LAW, is GOD'S judgment.

So Jesus did answer perfectly, telling them that if that if He was casting out what SATAN had done, by SATAN, then SATAN'S kingdom would be divided and fall, because Satan's kingdom was given by GOD, ie. to eat dust, the prince of this world, bringer of judgments. But that He was casting them out by GOD, meant that a NEW COVENANT was in fact about to come into place in the whole, and had already come into place in the part = Christ Jesus, because God's kingdom is NOT divided.

And so, the Pharisees asked Him by whose authority do you do these things, when He healed the man on the SABBATH day. Since John's baptism was a type of being baptized into His death (intended to bring repentance) which was a type of the OT covenant that concluded all under the covenant of death, ie. if you never came up out of that water of the letter of the law that killeth the result would be you'd give up the ghost = drown in the waters of judgment.

Which is why Peter was told (he who had the calling to the Jews/those under the letter of the law) to come out of the boat and walk ABOVE the letter of the law waters below the firmament, and walk in the proceeding Word/breath that comes from the Father's mouth.

So what they were asking Him there again was, by whose authority do you do these things, since we know God has done this for judgment? And His answer there was also perfect in it's understanding. He turned the tables on them, and asked a seemingly unrelated (to us) question.....

"Mt 21:25 - The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men?"

And they reasoned with themselves, saying, "If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him?"

And so, I say to you.......the baptism of John ie. the symbol of the judgments that GOD ordained for those that continue to walk by the letter/water that are AUTHORIZED BY GOD, and is being fulfilled STILL TO THIS DAY by Satan......whence was it? from heaven, or of men?

So the whole NT covenant with it's instructions about resisting the devil and he will flee, ect. are the unfolding of the finished plan of God, which runs SIDE BY SIDE (run the good race) in the framework of TIME, with the first covenant principles that are ONLY abolished with the death of the testator, as the testament is not in effect UNTIL the testator dies. So the first covenant which was made with our flesh concluding all under judgment, stays in effect as long as there is still flesh that needs to die, right along with the second covenant, till all is fulfilled.

Which is why He told John, who didn't want to baptize Him in water, to baptize Him because it is necessary that we fulfill ALL righteousness. And which is why spiritually speaking, we are told not to muzzle an ox (law) with a ass (Spirit), ie walking side by side. He as the covenant that is Spirit, came riding upon an ass, all beast of burden "ox" flesh had died.

Heb 10:9 - Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. The first is not going to disappear, God's Word stands, not a jot or tittle shall pass away of it. Be ye reconciled.

[Taffy]

Thanks for sharing that C :cloud9:

:icon_flower:

[Nathan]

Wow . . .Cardinal, "that's" a lot of chewing to be sure . . .great post.  Feel like I just ate a 7 course meal there!

[Nathan]

For me there's a big difference between putting on battle armor and standing . . . and entering into the person of rest.  Standing is not resting.

It is if you are holding the ark on your shoulders.

Hey Molly . . .
The carrying of the ark on your shoulders is  . .to me . . .a picture of having the mind of Christ . . .my head is removed and the ark, the presence of God, the mind of Christ . .replaces my mind . . . which then leads me back to the place of rest.

Sorry . . but I like rest much more than warfare :cloud9:.

[Redlettervoice]

.

Cardinal, this is "hidden manna" ..."hidden" back here in
this thread.  Needs to be in a thread of it's own.  Enjoyed
your explanation.  Blessings.

The Pharisees accused Him of casting out demons (could be sicknesses, evil spirits as well) by an evil spirit. The Pharisees were well aware of the fact from Deut. and other books that GOD set up this as a part of the OT covenant curses. So in fact, what they were asking Him is by whose authority do you do these things (including healing the man on the Sabbath day), because we know this demon/sickness is a judgment established by GOD for disobedience, and carried out by Satan. So since God AUTHORIZED it; for You, Jesus, to UNDO it, must mean it's an EVIL spirit in You, Jesus, OPPOSING what we know by the LAW, is GOD'S judgment.

So Jesus did answer perfectly, telling them that if that if He was casting out what SATAN had done, by SATAN, then SATAN'S kingdom would be divided and fall, because Satan's kingdom was given by GOD, ie. to eat dust, the prince of this world, bringer of judgments. But that He was casting them out by GOD, meant that a NEW COVENANT was in fact about to come into place in the whole, and had already come into place in the part = Christ Jesus, because God's kingdom is NOT divided.

And so, the Pharisees asked Him by whose authority do you do these things, when He healed the man on the SABBATH day. Since John's baptism was a type of being baptized into His death (intended to bring repentance) which was a type of the OT covenant that concluded all under the covenant of death, ie. if you never came up out of that water of the letter of the law that killeth the result would be you'd give up the ghost = drown in the waters of judgment.

Which is why Peter was told (he who had the calling to the Jews/those under the letter of the law) to come out of the boat and walk ABOVE the letter of the law waters below the firmament, and walk in the proceeding Word/breath that comes from the Father's mouth.

So what they were asking Him there again was, by whose authority do you do these things, since we know God has done this for judgment? And His answer there was also perfect in it's understanding. He turned the tables on them, and asked a seemingly unrelated (to us) question.....

"Mt 21:25 - The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men?"

And they reasoned with themselves, saying, "If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him?"

And so, I say to you.......the baptism of John ie. the symbol of the judgments that GOD ordained for those that continue to walk by the letter/water that are AUTHORIZED BY GOD, and is being fulfilled STILL TO THIS DAY by Satan......whence was it? from heaven, or of men?

So the whole NT covenant with it's instructions about resisting the devil and he will flee, ect. are the unfolding of the finished plan of God, which runs SIDE BY SIDE (run the good race) in the framework of TIME, with the first covenant principles that are ONLY abolished with the death of the testator, as the testament is not in effect UNTIL the testator dies. So the first covenant which was made with our flesh concluding all under judgment, stays in effect as long as there is still flesh that needs to die, right along with the second covenant, till all is fulfilled.

Which is why He told John, who didn't want to baptize Him in water, to baptize Him because it is necessary that we fulfill ALL righteousness. And which is why spiritually speaking, we are told not to muzzle an ox (law) with a ass (Spirit), ie walking side by side. He as the covenant that is Spirit, came riding upon an ass, all beast of burden "ox" flesh had died.

Heb 10:9 - Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. The first is not going to disappear, God's Word stands, not a jot or tittle shall pass away of it. Be ye reconciled.


« Last Edit: Today at 01:57:47 PM by Cardinal » 

[Molly]

For me there's a big difference between putting on battle armor and standing . . . and entering into the person of rest.  Standing is not resting.

It is if you are holding the ark on your shoulders.

Hey Molly . . .
The carrying of the ark on your shoulders is  . .to me . . .a picture of having the mind of Christ . . .my head is removed and the ark, the presence of God, the mind of Christ . .replaces my mind . . . which then leads me back to the place of rest.

Sorry . . but I like rest much more than warfare :cloud9:.

One cannot rest in the midst of warfare?

Maybe with some help...


5And the LORD said unto Moses, Go on before the people, and take with thee of the elders of Israel; and thy rod, wherewith thou smotest the river, take in thine hand, and go.



11And it came to pass, when Moses held up his hand, that Israel prevailed: and when he let down his hand, Amalek prevailed.

12But Moses hands were heavy; and they took a stone, and put it under him, and he sat thereon; and Aaron and Hur stayed up his hands, the one on the one side, and the other on the other side; and his hands were steady until the going down of the sun.

13And Joshua discomfited Amalek and his people with the edge of the sword.

--Exodus 17

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Thanks for the reply, Nate, Taff and RLV....... :girlheart:

[Taffy]

:cloud9: Thanks for the reply, Nate, Taff and RLV....... :girlheart:

x :cloud9:

[Tony N]

Dear Zeek,
There are spiritual applications to things Scriptural.

But the problem with preterism and the Lord returning is that they often refuse to look at the whole picture.

Jesus did not only say that this generation would see my return. He said:

Mat 24:34 Verily, I am saying to you that by no means may this generation be passing by till all these things should be occurring."
What are the "all things" that should be occurring?

Did ALL those things occur? No.

And what about Mark's account?
Mark 13:30 Verily, I am saying to you that by no means may this generation be passing by until the time when all these things may be occurring."

All what things? Did all those things happen in 70 A.D.? No. Absolutely no, they did not.

I'm cool with you if you want to take it all spiritually, though I believe that is mistaken. You are no less a brother to me. Dig?

  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:  30  And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.  31  And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. {with...: or, with a trumpet, and a great voice}  32  Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer [is] nigh:  33  So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, [even] at the doors. {it: or, he}  34  Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Sun darkened moon no light stars falling = man in carnal condition.

Son of man coming = God waking people up.

When you see.... it is near = People who experience salvation (a waking up).

This generation will not pass until all fullfilled = this work will not be stopped until man is made in the image of God.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm. Just thinking out loud.

cp

I think there is a lot more than just that which is to happen that never happened yet. It is an all or nothing thing ya know?

Why in the old testament when the people were warned with what would happen they always happened as it was said they would but now all of a sudden, when Christ says ALL these things must come to pass first that since they didn't come to pass we all of a sudden spiritualize them?

Sounds fishy to me.

[Taffy]

Why in the old testament when the people were warned with what would happen they always happened as it was said they would but now all of a sudden, when Christ says ALL these things must come to pass first that since they didn't come to pass we all of a sudden spiritualize them?

cosT..first the Natural as the Shadow..then  that which is Spiritual, that which Lays within.....many here keep repeating it but ya dont see it bud..but no matters..love ya man :HeartThrob:

[reFORMer]

All these views are valid because I am spirit, soul and body existing with a history past, a present inner engagement with God, myself and others in the world, and I have a future.  My flesh body is being brought to transfiguration as my soul's salvation is being completed by alignment with my regenerated spirit because of union with God.

Preterist, past literal, and Futurist, future literal, both seem the realm of the outer court or body, like seeing The Song of Songs as the love between a man and a maiden.

Historicist, descriptions of the God's people in the world across history, is more allegorical and similar to holy place or soul, like The Song of Songs Allegorical.

Symbolist, or, Ideal is immanent and now, descriptive of the corporate bride's progress in celestial realities and symbolic of the individuals inner states and process of attaining full salvation, seeming the realm of the holy of holies; like The Song of Songs Devotional, the individuals relationship to God or Psychological, the relationship of the spirit to the soul.

In all these views of Scripture, which are not meant to be exhaustive, only representative, the Word itself is not forgotten but studied and retained.  As other positions appear to the seeker, and they too are sifted with the Word and winnowed with the Spirit, Holy Writ is raised higher in our understanding and remembrance.  We are not meant to make our various parts to war, one against another, rather we rejoice in the fellowship of the harmonious whole.

At the center,
ruling over all,
the Word,
Who is the Image and Glory of God,
rests
upon the Mercy Throne.

[claypot]

All these views are valid because I am spirit, soul and body existing with a history past, a present inner engagement with God, myself and others in the world, and I have a future.  My flesh body is being brought to transfiguration as my soul's salvation is being completed by alignment with my regenerated spirit because of union with God.

Preterist, past literal, and Futurist, future literal, both seem the realm of the outer court or body, like seeing The Song of Songs as the love between a man and a maiden.

Historicist, descriptions of the God's people in the world across history, is more allegorical and similar to holy place or soul, like The Song of Songs Allegorical.

Symbolist, or, Ideal is immanent and now, descriptive of the corporate bride's progress in celestial realities and symbolic of the individuals inner states and process of attaining full salvation, seeming the realm of the holy of holies; like The Song of Songs Devotional, the individuals relationship to God or Psychological, the relationship of the spirit to the soul.

In all these views of Scripture, which are not meant to be exhaustive, only representative, the Word itself is not forgotten but studied and retained.  As other positions appear to the seeker, and they too are sifted with the Word and winnowed with the Spirit, Holy Writ is raised higher in our understanding and remembrance.  We are not meant to make our various parts to war, one against another, rather we rejoice in the fellowship of the harmonious whole.

At the center,
ruling over all,
the Word,
Who is the Image and Glory of God,
rests
upon the Mercy Throne.

Good stuff, Reform. Balance. This is why Scripture is as it is IMO. It could have been written like a recipe for making 'just add water' pancakes, simple, easy instructions to follow and very little if any misinterpretation. But no, Scripture was written with many words by many people over a long period of time with many literary styles which makes for many interpretations.

cp

[Cardinal]

All these views are valid because I am spirit, soul and body existing with a history past, a present inner engagement with God, myself and others in the world, and I have a future.  My flesh body is being brought to transfiguration as my soul's salvation is being completed by alignment with my regenerated spirit because of union with God.

:cloud9: Amen..... :thumbsup:

[Tony N]

Why in the old testament when the people were warned with what would happen they always happened as it was said they would but now all of a sudden, when Christ says ALL these things must come to pass first that since they didn't come to pass we all of a sudden spiritualize them?

cosT..first the Natural as the Shadow..then  that which is Spiritual, that which Lays within.....many here keep repeating it but ya dont see it bud..but no matters..love ya man :HeartThrob:

Hi Taffy,
Thanks for your input. I appreciate what you write. I really do. I'm not meaning to butter you up either.

However, there is a problem with your quote "first the Natural . . . then the Spiritual." The bible, at least no properly translated Bible says "first the Natural then the Spiritual."

I believe you are quoting this:

1Co 15:46  Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
One can say from that translation "first the natural then the spiritual."

But in a better translated version it is:

1Co 15:46 But not first the spiritual, but the soulish, thereupon the spiritual." The word "soulish" is psuchikon in Greek. "Natural" is Phusiken and "soulish" is psuchikon. In 1 Cor.15:46 psuchikon is used.

So it is talking about the "soulish" which is Adam, thereupon the spiritual which is Christ according to the context.

So I wouldn't suggest that all the things Christ spoke of which would occur prior to His appearing were soulish.

Man, I hate to be a fly in everyone's ointment here, but someone's gotta do it  :winkgrin:

[Molly]

Hi Tony,

Yesterday I was talking to someone who, like you, thinks the temple will be rebuilt, but she didn't know what scriptures were claiming that.  So I was wondering if you could list the scriptures that you use to claim that yourself?   

As to the natural and spiritual--there are people who are really suffering (and dying) today because of what is being done to them by those in power, and I doubt they would be convinced or comforted that it is really all spiritual.

[Tony N]

Hi Tony,

Yesterday I was talking to someone who, like you, thinks the temple will be rebuilt, but she didn't know what scriptures were claiming that.  So I was wondering if you could list the scriptures that you use to claim that yourself?   

As to the natural and spiritual--there are people who are really suffering (and dying) today because of what is being done to them by those in power, and I doubt they would be convinced or comforted that it is really all spiritual.

Greetings Molly,
I totally agree with you on the the suffering of today. I don't believe they are suffering spiritually.

As to the future temple to be rebuilt, it is my understanding that John the revelator was "in spirit in the Lord's Day". In other words, his revelation was about him seeing into the future day of the Lord when he was on the isle of Patmos around 90 some A.D. He was told to measure the temple in that future day.
In his revelation he also saw into the future and saw a messenger measuring the city on the new earth.

2Th 2:4 who is opposing and lifting himself up over everyone termed a god or an object of veneration, so that he is seated in the temple of God, demonstrating that he himself is God?

The temple John was to measure is the temple in which the man of lawlessness will show that he is God and when Christ comes back he will despatch (cut off) that man (2 Thess.2:8).

There was no man actually demonstrating he was God in 70 A.D. There was no man cut off by Christ that was demonstrating my miracles and signs that he was God in 70 A.D.

Therefore the temple must be future.

Also, I can't find it right now but I believe the measurements of Ezekiel's temple is larger than any temple yet to date so there must be another temple to be built.

[Nathan]

Why in the old testament when the people were warned with what would happen they always happened as it was said they would but now all of a sudden, when Christ says ALL these things must come to pass first that since they didn't come to pass we all of a sudden spiritualize them?

cosT..first the Natural as the Shadow..then  that which is Spiritual, that which Lays within.....many here keep repeating it but ya dont see it bud..but no matters..love ya man :HeartThrob:

Hi Taffy,
Thanks for your input. I appreciate what you write. I really do. I'm not meaning to butter you up either.

However, there is a problem with your quote "first the Natural . . . then the Spiritual." The bible, at least no properly translated Bible says "first the Natural then the Spiritual."

I believe you are quoting this:

1Co 15:46  Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
One can say from that translation "first the natural then the spiritual."

But in a better translated version it is:

1Co 15:46 But not first the spiritual, but the soulish, thereupon the spiritual." The word "soulish" is psuchikon in Greek. "Natural" is Phusiken and "soulish" is psuchikon. In 1 Cor.15:46 psuchikon is used.

So it is talking about the "soulish" which is Adam, thereupon the spiritual which is Christ according to the context.

So I wouldn't suggest that all the things Christ spoke of which would occur prior to His appearing were soulish.

Man, I hate to be a fly in everyone's ointment here, but someone's gotta do it  :winkgrin:

Ya Taf . . .what were you thinking!!  How could you ever consider that soulish things would be connected to natural reasoning??!!  Now everything I believe is going to have to be rewritten!  There "are" no spiritual pictures . . . I just made all that stuff up!  I'm not a spirit being after all . . .it's all about my flesh!  My pain, My suffering . . .how could I ever imagine that there's an invisible source that would give me peace and strength while I went through the visible challenges . . . What a crock!  Life is about what I feel, the pain, the misery . . .the global warming . . . we are all doomed for destruction for sure!  There's just to much death and evil around us to even think that something as corny as "love" could ever overpower.  

Maybe it's best I just throw everything I've posted up till today out and go back to what I used to think and believe.  At least "then" it felt like I was "doing" something to further advance the truth.

Who'da thunk it that I have been so wrong in my beliefs . . . faith isn't accepting what can't be understood . . it's not believing in what can't be seen . . .how foolish of me . .it's always been reading the literal words at face value.  Understanding the true definitions of every word is the key . . . when everybody learns the true definitions . . .surely that will end all arguments between us!  

Forget about growing from other people's experiences in Christ.  Forget about being open minded to accept new and deeper things from others on these forums . . . I should be spending more time enforcing what I see to be right and keeping everyone else in line with what I believe . .that's what will make God happiest . . I'm sure of it. :Whistle:

[claypot]

Hey Nathan, nice to see you are finally growing in the spirit!!!

cp

[Taffy]

Why in the old testament when the people were warned with what would happen they always happened as it was said they would but now all of a sudden, when Christ says ALL these things must come to pass first that since they didn't come to pass we all of a sudden spiritualize them?

cosT..first the Natural as the  :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower:  Shadow :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower:..then  that which is Spiritual, that which Lays within.....many here keep repeating it but ya dont see it bud..but no matters..love ya man :HeartThrob:

Hi Taffy,
Thanks for your input. I appreciate what you write. I really do. I'm not meaning to butter you up either.

However, there is a problem with your quote "first the Natural . . . then the Spiritual." The bible, at least no properly translated Bible says "first the Natural then the Spiritual."

I believe you are quoting this:

1Co 15:46  Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
One can say from that translation "first the natural then the spiritual."

But in a better translated version it is:

1Co 15:46 But not first the spiritual, but the soulish, thereupon the spiritual." The word "soulish" is psuchikon in Greek. "Natural" is Phusiken and "soulish" is psuchikon. In 1 Cor.15:46 psuchikon is used.

So it is talking about the "soulish" which is Adam, thereupon the spiritual which is Christ according to the context.

So I wouldn't suggest that all the things Christ spoke of which would occur prior to His appearing were soulish.

Man, I hate to be a fly in everyone's ointment here, but someone's gotta do it  :winkgrin:

Tony No worries Bud, :icon_flower:

One does there best to keep things simple to understand ...ill try again

The Natural, Physical .. :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower:
THE SHADOW, :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower:  ya seemed to have missed it bro, of the Spiritual reality  to follow ,

The shadow is a Copy of The REALTITY (Body)..as in the Temple .the very shadow you wait for to be Re built :icon_king:

For we are NOW the TEMPLE made without hands....just an example of what I was saying bro :icon_flower:

Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ.

10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, [and] not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

Hbr 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, [that] thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

:icon_flower:

[Taffy]

Why in the old testament when the people were warned with what would happen they always happened as it was said they would but now all of a sudden, when Christ says ALL these things must come to pass first that since they didn't come to pass we all of a sudden spiritualize them?

cosT..first the Natural as the Shadow..then  that which is Spiritual, that which Lays within.....many here keep repeating it but ya dont see it bud..but no matters..love ya man :HeartThrob:

Hi Taffy,
Thanks for your input. I appreciate what you write. I really do. I'm not meaning to butter you up either.

However, there is a problem with your quote "first the Natural . . . then the Spiritual." The bible, at least no properly translated Bible says "first the Natural then the Spiritual."

I believe you are quoting this:

1Co 15:46  Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
One can say from that translation "first the natural then the spiritual."

But in a better translated version it is:

1Co 15:46 But not first the spiritual, but the soulish, thereupon the spiritual." The word "soulish" is psuchikon in Greek. "Natural" is Phusiken and "soulish" is psuchikon. In 1 Cor.15:46 psuchikon is used.

So it is talking about the "soulish" which is Adam, thereupon the spiritual which is Christ according to the context.

So I wouldn't suggest that all the things Christ spoke of which would occur prior to His appearing were soulish.

Man, I hate to be a fly in everyone's ointment here, but someone's gotta do it  :winkgrin:

Ya Taf . . .what were you thinking!!  How could you ever consider that soulish things would be connected to natural reasoning??!!  Now everything I believe is going to have to be rewritten!  There "are" no spiritual pictures . . . I just made all that stuff up!  I'm not a spirit being after all . . .it's all about my flesh!  My pain, My suffering . . .how could I ever imagine that there's an invisible source that would give me peace and strength while I went through the visible challenges . . . What a crock!  Life is about what I feel, the pain, the misery . . .the global warming . . . we are all doomed for destruction for sure!  There's just to much death and evil around us to even think that something as corny as "love" could ever overpower.  

Maybe it's best I just throw everything I've posted up till today out and go back to what I used to think and believe.  At least "then" it felt like I was "doing" something to further advance the truth.

Who'da thunk it that I have been so wrong in my beliefs . . . faith isn't accepting what can't be understood . . it's not believing in what can't be seen . . .how foolish of me . .it's always been reading the literal words at face value.  Understanding the true definitions of every word is the key . . . when everybody learns the true definitions . . .surely that will end all arguments between us!  

Forget about growing from other people's experiences in Christ.  Forget about being open minded to accept new and deeper things from others on these forums . . . I should be spending more time enforcing what I see to be right and keeping everyone else in line with what I believe . .that's what will make God happiest . . I'm sure of it. :Whistle:

Well when ya ready bud..ill join ya Class , kinda throw away all those types , shadow and patterns , also could ya consider having a special class for striving over word definitions....getting nowhere but heck, wont it be fun telling everyone how right we ALL are irrespective.... :sigh:

:icon_flower:

[Tony N]

Ya Taf . . .what were you thinking!!  How could you ever consider that soulish things would be connected to natural reasoning??!!  Now everything I believe is going to have to be rewritten!  There "are" no spiritual pictures . . . I just made all that stuff up!  I'm not a spirit being after all . . .it's all about my flesh!  My pain, My suffering . . .how could I ever imagine that there's an invisible source that would give me peace and strength while I went through the visible challenges . . . What a crock!  Life is about what I feel, the pain, the misery . . .the global warming . . . we are all doomed for destruction for sure!  There's just to much death and evil around us to even think that something as corny as "love" could ever overpower.  

O.K. Nathan and Taf, Class is in session.
Now now Nathan, me thinks ye be a might too hard on yerself.
"First the soulish then the spiritual" is not about EVERYTHING that is written in the Bible that has to do with common things such as the temple, the threatenings etc. It is only about Adam and Christ. Adam was the soulish one and Christ the spiritual or the One whose life was pertaining to the spirit. Now by "spiritual" I don't mean "figurative types and pictures" which is what you mean by it. It means that His life was regulated by God's spirit whereas Adam's life was regulated or pertaining to his soul, i.e. his soulish desires etc.

Now, friend, I never said there are no spiritual pictures to be had from the Old Testament writings such as the creation account etc. There are. So let's not go overboard, okay?

Maybe it's best I just throw everything I've posted up till today out and go back to what I used to think and believe.  At least "then" it felt like I was "doing" something to further advance the truth.

Maybe that would be best if you feel you are truly the wise one of proberbs who learns and not be like the fool that can't learn anything. Now I believe you are the wise one. Prove me right, Nathan and Taffy.

Who'da thunk it that I have been so wrong in my beliefs . . . faith isn't accepting what can't be understood . . it's not believing in what can't be seen . . .how foolish of me . .it's always been reading the literal words at face value.  Understanding the true definitions of every word is the key . . . when everybody learns the true definitions . . .surely that will end all arguments between us! 

Is this how you felt when you first heard about Universal Reconciliation too?

Forget about growing from other people's experiences in Christ.  Forget about being open minded to accept new and deeper things from others on these forums . . . I should be spending more time enforcing what I see to be right and keeping everyone else in line with what I believe . .that's what will make God happiest . . I'm sure of it. :Whistle:
Well when ya ready bud..ill join ya Class , kinda throw away all those types , shadow and patterns , also could ya consider having a special class for striving over word definitions....getting nowhere but heck, wont it be fun telling everyone how right we ALL are irrespective.... :sigh:

:icon_flower:

I do hope you you are open minded to accept new and deeper things from others on these forums such as me. Have you learned the deeper things from me on this subject? I'm not saying you HAVE to believe the way I do. I also am not asking you to throw out all the types, shadows and patterns. I think you are way overdoing your pathos friend.

It is not about "be fun telling everyone how right we ALL are." It is about God raising teachers to help the body of Christ.

Eph 4:11-15  And the same One gives these, indeed, as apostles, yet these as prophets, yet these as evangelists, yet these as pastors and teachers,  (12)  toward the adjusting of the saints for the work of dispensing, for the upbuilding of the body of Christ,  (13)  unto the end that we should all attain to the unity of the faith and of the realization of the son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature of the complement of the Christ,  (14)  that we may by no means still be minors, surging hither and thither and being carried about by every wind of teaching, by human caprice, by craftiness with a view to the systematizing of the deception."  (15)  Now, being true, in love we should be making all grow into Him, Who is the Head - Christ"

The wise will increase in knowledge. I believe you are one of the wise ones.
Remember when Apollos was preaching? He was preaching but not accurately. What happened then? . . .

Act 18:24-26  Now a certain Jew named Apollos, a native Alexandrian, a scholarly man, arrives at Ephesus, being able in the scriptures."  (25)  He was instructed in the way of the Lord, and fervent in spirit. He spoke and taught accurately what concerns Jesus, being versed only in the baptism of John."  (26)  Besides, he begins to speak boldly in the synagogue. Now, hearing him, Priscilla and Aquila took him to themselves and expounded the way of God to him more accurately."

Apollos could have made a big rant like you are doing right now and not learn anything. But he was wise like you are and was able to humble himself and learn from a man and woman. Due to that God was able to use him even more.

Nathan and Taffy, I believe you are wise. Don't let the lesson hurt your pride bro.

Tony

[Taffy]

Taffy, I believe you are wise. Don't let the lesson hurt your pride bro

Hey T.... :icon_flower:

No pride hurt Bro, as One didnt percieve what you spoke of to be a lesson , AS we BOTH discussed the SOULISH man sometime back on another thread ....recall? :icon_flower:

More of pointing out to you , what you READ passed by ommiting the Term Shadow ,therefore misquoting me..which has now been explained... :icon_flower:

No worries Bud. :icon_flower:



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