Natural and Spiritual

[rosered]

 
 wow good stuff  Bob and  Chrissie and Molly
 I can see that  now , thanks for the clarity
 
 it took Jesus coming to  Saul  /Paul  to change  his position name and   vessel of wrath to honour  to God  
 when he was a child spoke as a child , when he become a man  he put away childish things ,,  

 the things of men
 and satans  power  hummm ???
Act 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

Act 9:16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.  
 seems Saul /Paul suffered for doing evil and for doing good   a  switch  sides  type thing ?

[Chris]

Hi Molly!

How does that factor into....

Mat 13:30  Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.


This is the first thing that began to bug me about the teaching that the elect are harvested first, in the first resurrection, pre-millennium.

Hi Chrissie,

that verse, re: FIRST  intrigues me too.  

That was the first "dilemma" that I faced after coming to an understanding of UR, based on a pre-millennial view.  :grin:

[Chris]

Amen, Rose!! Paul was "delivered of the child" (saved in childbearing  :laughing7:)

[bobf]

You can't tell the wheat from the tares until maturity.  Paul at maturity was a wheat.

Jesus judged men as tares because they sought to kill him, which is exactly what Saul was doing as a mature tare.  Paul of course was wheat, but the spirit previously in him that was a tare was never turned into wheat, it was simply destroyed.

[rosered]

The individual:

Laban La'ban (white).
1. Son of Bethuel, brother of Rebekah and father of Leah and Rachel. (b.c. about 1860-1740.) The elder branch of the family remained at Haran, Mesopotamia, when Abraham removed to the land of Canaan, and it is there that we first meet with Laban, as taking the leading part in the betrothal of his sister Rebekah to her cousin Isaac. Gene 24:10, 29-60; 27:43; 29:5 The next time Laban appears in the sacred narrative it is as the host of his nephew Jacob at Haran. Gene 29:13, 14 [JACOB] Jacob married Rachel and Leah, daughters of Laban, and remained with him 20 years, b.c. 1760-1740. But Laban's dishonest and overreaching practice toward his nephew shows from what source Jacob inherited his tendency to sharp dealing. Nothing is said of Laban after Jacob left him.
2. One of the landmarks named in the obscure and disputed passage Deut 1:1 The mention of Hezeroth has perhaps led to the only conjecture regarding Laban of which the writer is aware, namely, that it is identical with LIBNAH. Numb 33:20
—Smith's Bible Dictionary


The Corporate, (with the city #2 above) a Nation:

Lebanon
White, incense.
—Hitchcock's Dictionary of Bible Names

Lebanon Leb'anon, a mountain range in the north of Palestine. The name Lebanon signifies white, and was applied either on account of snow which, during a great part of the year, cover its whole summit, or on account of the white color of its limestone cliffs and peaks. It is the "white mountain"—the Mont Blane of Palestine. Lebanon is represented in Scripture as lying upon the northern border of the land of Israel. Deut 1:7; 11:24; Josh 1:4 Two distinct ranges bear this name. They run in parallel lines from southwest to northeast for about 90 geographical miles, enclosing between them a long, fertile valley from five to eight miles wide, anciently called Cœle-Syria. The western range is the "Libanus" of the old geographers and the Lebanon of Scripture. The eastern range was called "Anti-Libanus" by geographers, and "Lebanon toward the sunrising" by the sacred writers. Josh 13:5
1. Lebanon—the western range—commences on the south of the deep ravine of the Litany, the ancient river Leontes, which drains the valley of Cole-Syria, and falls into the Mediterranean five miles north of Tyre. It runs northeast in a straight line parallel to the coast, to the opening from the Mediterranean into the plain of Emesa, called in Scripture the "entrance of Hamath." Numb 34:8 Here Nehr el-Kebir—the ancient river Eleutherus—sweeps round its northern end, as the Leontes does round its southern. The average elevation of the range is from 6000 to 8000 feet; but two peaks rise considerably higher. On the summits of both these peaks the snow remains in patches during the whole summer. The line of cultivation runs along at the height of about 6000 feet; and below this the features of the western slopes are entirely different. The rugged limestone banks are scantily clothed with the evergreen oak, and the sandstone with pines; while every available spot is carefully cultivated. The cultivation is wonderful, and shows what all Syria might be if under a good government. Fig trees cling to the naked rock; vines are trained along narrow ledges; long ranges of mulberries, on terraces like steps of stairs, cover the more gentle declivities; and dense groves of olives fill up the bottoms of the glens. Hundreds of villages are seen—here built among labyrinths of rocks, there clinging like among labyrinths of rocks, there clinging like swallows' nests to the sides of cliffs; while convents, no less numerous, are perched on the top of every peak. The vine is still largely cultivated in every part of the mountain. Lebanon also abounds in olives, figs and mulberries; while some remnants exist of the forests of pine, oak and cedar which formerly covered it. 1 Kin 5:6; Ezra 3:7; Psal 29:5; Isai 14:8 Considerable numbers of wild beasts still inhabit its retired glens and higher peaks; the writer has seen jackals, hyænas, wolves, bears and panthers. 2 Kin 14:9; Song 4:8; Hab 2:17 Along the base of Lebanon runs the irregular plain of Phœnicia—nowhere more than two miles wide, and often interrupted by bold rocky spurs that dip into the sea. The main ridge of Lebanon is composed of Jura limestone, and abounds in fossils. Long belts of more recent sandstone run along the western slopes, which are in places largely impregnated with iron. Lebanon was originally inhabited by the Hivites and Giblites. Josh 13:5, 6; Judg 3:3 The whole mountain range was assigned to the Israelites, but was never conquered by them. Josh 13:2-6; Judg 3:1-3 During the Jewish monarchy it appears to have been subject of the Phœnicians. 1 Kin 5:2-6; Ezra 3:7 From the Greek conquest until modern times Lebanon had no separate history.
2. Anti-Libanus.—The main chain of Anti-Libanus commences in the plateau of Bashan, near the parallel of Cæsarea Philippi, runs north to Hermon, and then northeast in a straight line till it stinks down into the great plain of Emesa, not far from the site of Riblah. Hermon is the loftiest peak; the next highest is a few miles north of the site of Abila, beside the village of Bludan, and has an elevation of about 7000 feet. The rest of the ridge averages about 5000 feet; it is in general bleak and barren, with shelving gray declivities, gray cliffs and gray rounded summits. Here and there we meet with thin forests of dwarf oak and juniper. The western slopes descend abruptly into the Buka'a; but the features of the eastern are entirely different. Three side ridges here radiate from Hermon, like the ribs of an open fan, and form the supporting walls of three great terraces. Anti-Libanus is only once distinctly mentioned in Scripture, where it is accurately described as "Lebanon toward the sunrising." Josh 13:5
—Smith's Bible Dictionary

thanks James !!  shows alot pertaining to the   whiteness of lebanon ,,,  cool ! leprosy  white as snow !
and   the priesthood  changes !!  

[rosered]

Amen, Rose!! Paul was "delivered of the child" (saved in childbearing  :laughing7:)

  yes  you are right , that has to be it!!!   bearing children/offspring  in the ministry  to God !

[Chris]

You can't tell the wheat from the tares until maturity.  Paul at maturity was a wheat.

Jesus judged men as tares because they sought to kill him, which is exactly what Saul was doing as a mature tare.  Paul of course was wheat, but the spirit previously in him that was a tare was never turned into wheat, it was simply destroyed.

Amen! The tares are gathered to be burned while the wheat is gathered to the barn!!  :thumbsup:

[rosered]

You can't tell the wheat from the tares until maturity.  Paul at maturity was a wheat.

Jesus judged men as tares because they sought to kill him, which is exactly what Saul was doing as a mature tare.  Paul of course was wheat, but the spirit previously in him that was a tare was never turned into wheat, it was simply destroyed.

again you are right  Bob , seeing he was undergoing  the body of death  and   declared  Jesus was the one who would deliver him from that body
 there are to bodies
 the harlots body  church =death  
and the true bride , Jesus Body  Chruch   where offspring /children are   concieved  like thoughts , they are concieved by hearing  and this is where faith comes in  right ?

[Zeek]

You can't tell the wheat from the tares until maturity.  Paul at maturity was a wheat.

Jesus judged men as tares because they sought to kill him, which is exactly what Saul was doing as a mature tare.  Paul of course was wheat, but the spirit previously in him that was a tare was never turned into wheat, it was simply destroyed.

again you are right  Bob , seeing he was undergoing  the body of death  and   declared  Jesus was the one who would deliver him from that body
 there are to bodies
 the harlots body  church =death  
and the true bride , Jesus Body  Chruch   where offspring /children are   concieved  like thoughts , they are concieved by hearing  and this is where faith comes in  right ?

right, by faith.  but for what purpose?? 

to bring in the harvest. 

baptized for the dead

[Zeek]

 


1Cr 15:30 And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?

[rosered]

Amen, Rose!! Paul was "delivered of the child" (saved in childbearing  :laughing7:)

  yes  you are right , that has to be it!!!   bearing children/offspring  in the ministry  to God !

Ordinances imposed UNTIL?

Christ comes the first time!      for correction !!!  , or   this ??

And it is turned round about by his counsels: that they may do whatsoever he commandeth them upon the face of the world in the earth.


Job 37:13 He causeth it to come, whether for correction, or for his land, or for mercy.

[Zeek]

 


1Cr 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

[rosered]

  Yes the dead ,  how could i have missed this ?  :mblush:

[bobf]

Also the tares & wheat do not have to be fully mature (havesting time) to identify them.  They were identified sooner, when their fruit appeared.

Matthew 13:26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. 27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?

So Saul's fruit should identify him, no?  Does early wheat have tare fruit and vice versa?  I don't think so.

• Ephesians 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

[rosered]

1Cr 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 thanks  Zeek brother !!    and Kimbo
 you know  we are whirrling  here so fast I cannot keep  thinking  and  posting hee hee  Thanking God for his mercy here today and for you all!!!

 God love ya  :HeartThrob:

[bobf]

again you are right  Bob , seeing he was undergoing  the body of death  and   declared  Jesus was the one who would deliver him from that body

Are you referring to this?

Romans 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

there are to bodies
 the harlots body  church =death  
and the true bride , Jesus Body  Chruch   where offspring /children are   concieved  like thoughts , they are concieved by hearing  and this is where faith comes in  right ?

Yes!

[rosered]

 
amen Kimmy !!  thats right sis another connection sis !
 and Bob , the darnels   are poision seed  they are black   not White as wheat !   reminds  me of hairs as thoughts being black or white !  
we cannot make  them    black or white!
  destroy the  evil thoughts ? bundle and  burn them  sons /offspring of the devil ?


 I always thought of wheat and tares as good thought or bad thoughts   on our heads as hair , with Christ being the Head  they are all white!

 the hair of women on the  locusts  Rev 9  heads were long  grew  as such , to be that way on purpose by the Lord God for desturction

 Mat 5:36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black

[Taffy]

Jesus judged men as tares because they sought to kill him, which is exactly what Saul was doing as a mature tare.  Paul of course was wheat, but the spirit previously in him that was a tare was never turned into wheat, it was simply destroyed

Gee Im having major probs with the Lappys...Crashing all the Time...agh..Im behind this thread by many posts.. :sigh:

Who ever said That...I concur.

So if the Mature Tare Is destroyed , First being a Pharisee after LAW, Twas the Law which kept The flesh( Soul - heart and mind, the Enmity) from entering , By Faith we enter Through, which Gives us a New HEART and Mind, Restoring the Soul....

Kinda seems To speak of the Outer man, The pharisees( jews by Carnal Nature) but equally so, the Inner man.

can someone show ME what Im not seeing..seems Pneuma, Zeek and Rosey? seem to see a similer thing?..equates to Both Poisoned Tongue and Wholesome Tongue, Good thought , Evil Thoughts..and list continues?

[Taffy]

Amen, Rose!! Paul was "delivered of the child" (saved in childbearing  :laughing7:)

  yes  you are right , that has to be it!!!   bearing children/offspring  in the ministry  to God !

Ordinances imposed UNTIL?

Christ comes the first time!      for correction !!!  , or   this ??

And it is turned round about by his counsels: that they may do whatsoever he commandeth them upon the face of the world in the earth.


Job 37:13 He causeth it to come, whether for correction, or for his land, or for mercy.

It reminds me of Christs words "I will come unto THEE and fight against THEM" even though its the sword of His mouth, the rod is also for correction and Paul said "Shall I come unto you with a ROD" (with the aurthority God hath given him) though it be for edification not destruction

Rubbish!!!!!!!!!!!!! its IRON, ever Been Hit with an Iron Bar, Bloody hurts. :HeartThrob:

[rosered]

1Cr 15:30 And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?

Exactly... if the dead dont rise...fighting beasts for nothing?  :grin:

 thought of these  sis ! 1Cr 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed [the poor], and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment [was] white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne [was like] the fiery flame, [and] his wheels [as] burning fire.


Dan 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.


Dan 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld [even] till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.


Dan 7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.


Dan 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, [one] like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.


Dan 7:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion [is] an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom [that] which shall not be destroyed.

[Molly]

Hi Molly!

How does that factor into....

Mat 13:30  Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.


This is the first thing that began to bug me about the teaching that the elect are harvested first, in the first resurrection, pre-millennium.

Tares:  imposters masquerading as priests?

But Jesus tells us they were really vipers and hypocrites.

70 ad the tares are gathered and burned, and the righteous shall shine forth in the kingdom.



7But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

8Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

9And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

10And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

--Mat 3

Molly,

Sorry, but I have no idea what you are asking me. I was simply pointing out that Christ said that in the time of harvest the tares would be harvested first. I was asking you how that factors into what you said about the priest being harvested now?

This is a Passover and Pentecost firstfruits harvest--barley and wheat.

John 4:35
Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.


10Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest:

11And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.

--Lev 23

[Taffy]

amen Kimmy !!  thats right sis another connection sis !
 and Bob , the darnels   are poision seed  they are black   not White as wheat !   reminds  me of hairs as thoughts being black or white !  
we cannot make  them    black or white!
  destroy the  evil thoughts ? bundle and  burn them  sons /offspring of the devil ?


 I always thought of wheat and tares as good thought or bad thoughts   on our heads as hair , with Christ being the Head  they are all white!

 the hair of women on the  locusts  Rev 9  heads were long  grew  as such , to be that way on purpose by the Lord God for desturction

 Mat 5:36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black

:icon_flower: :thumbsup:


Whats Flesh Is Flesh and Whats SPirit IS SPIRIT :HeartThrob:

[Molly]

You can't tell the wheat from the tares until maturity.  Paul at maturity was a wheat.

Jesus judged men as tares because they sought to kill him, which is exactly what Saul was doing as a mature tare.  Paul of course was wheat, but the spirit previously in him that was a tare was never turned into wheat, it was simply destroyed.

Paul always had a heart for God (wheat), set apart in his mother's womb.

He was just seriously misinformed.

Whereas, the Pharisees who met Jesus face to face knew who he was.  And, they knew what they were doing.

[Taffy]

You can't tell the wheat from the tares until maturity.  Paul at maturity was a wheat.

Jesus judged men as tares because they sought to kill him, which is exactly what Saul was doing as a mature tare.  Paul of course was wheat, but the spirit previously in him that was a tare was never turned into wheat, it was simply destroyed.

Paul always had a heart for God (wheat), set apart in his mother's womb.

He was just seriously misinformed.

Whereas, the Pharisees who met Jesus face to face knew who he was.  And, they knew what they were doing.

Molly I kinda Thought That which Paul speaks Of In Galatians Being set APART from HIS Mothers Womb was The origin of His Birth, ie Now seperated from Judaism To Christ

[Chris]

Hi Molly!

How does that factor into....

Mat 13:30  Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.


This is the first thing that began to bug me about the teaching that the elect are harvested first, in the first resurrection, pre-millennium.

Tares:  imposters masquerading as priests?

But Jesus tells us they were really vipers and hypocrites.

70 ad the tares are gathered and burned, and the righteous shall shine forth in the kingdom.



7But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

8Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

9And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

10And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

--Mat 3

Molly,

Sorry, but I have no idea what you are asking me. I was simply pointing out that Christ said that in the time of harvest the tares would be harvested first. I was asking you how that factors into what you said about the priest being harvested now?

This is a Passover and Pentecost firstfruits harvest--barley and wheat.

John 4:35
Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.


10Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest:

11And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.

--Lev 23

Sorry, but I am still not sure how that answers my question.  :dontknow: