All Flesh (- related to Noah, The Flood)

[Taffy]

Paolo
For mine

the threads hardly going off to far in tangents,  it havnt reached page yet- my Suggestion is leave it for now

:icon_flower:

[Beloved Servant]

Why do you ask what is "your sin" as if your sin is any different that mine or john doe?

Yes, WHAT IS MY SIN???
Every day an infant is born and that baby needs Jesus to redemption.
WHAT IS THAT INFANT'S SIN?????????
Specifically. What has that child done to deserve death?

[Beloved Servant]

CAN NO ONE ANSWER WHY AN INFANT NEEDS THE SAVIOR ?

[Beloved Servant]

Please,
Someone tell me what I did the moment I was born that I needed salvation.
What is an infant guilty of?
God is not cruel.

[Molly]

I can honestly say that until I first looked into a newborn's eyes, I had never seen anything so beautiful, so pure, and so purely innocent.


"See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven.
--Matthew 18:10

[pollypinks]

The infant hasn't sinned and doesn't need a savior.  If that were not the case, salvation for all would not be clearly defined in a plethora of places in the bible.  Could it be, that Christ came to teach, set an example, commune with the children of the world, and had his life cut short not because we needed it, but because his was so misunderstood?  There will be a reckoning post death, and perhaps here as well, but how on earth could every knee bough and every tongue confess if not all were eventually going?  Did  God create you and me with the intentional thought of 3/4 of us suffering in eternal torment?  Or, was he so stupid that he only figured that out after Eve ate a piece of fruit?  Sheesh, no wonder people run when they see evangelicals coming with their bibles in hand, ready to beat them into submission.

[CHB]

Why do you ask what is "your sin" as if your sin is any different that mine or john doe?

Yes, WHAT IS MY SIN???
Every day an infant is born and that baby needs Jesus to redemption.
WHAT IS THAT INFANT'S SIN?????????
Specifically. What has that child done to deserve death?

What is our sin, or an infant's sin?  Flesh, that was inherited from Adam.

CHB

[thinktank]

whats wrong with flesh?

When one is going through life without temptation and walks in victory, the flesh is no longer evil, it is a tool for the person to walk around in and enjoy life. It only becomes evil when it is tempted to do evil, which is is inclined to do.

The animals are flesh based creatures are they sinfull?

[WhiteWings]

whats wrong with flesh?

When one is going through life without temptation and walks in victory, the flesh is no longer evil,

Maybe. Maybe it's just kept under control?

The animals are flesh based creatures are they sinfull?

No, because God didn't give laws to animals.
Without laws there never is sin.

[thinktank]

There might not be a written law for animals, but there is a spiritual law. Cows don't eat leaves, they eat grass. Sheep don't give birth to goats, chickens don't mate with turkeys!

If they were to transgress these laws? isn't death the result.

[shawn]

There might not be a written law for animals, but there is a spiritual law. Cows don't eat leaves, they eat grass. Sheep don't give birth to goats, chickens don't mate with turkeys!

If they were to transgress these laws? isn't death the result.

These are not spiritual laws.  They are natural ones which rule the flesh.  If the flesh eats of a certain plant it will die.  That is a natural law.  When I let go of a pencil, it will fall...law of gravity...a natural one.

[thinktank]

Yes but the natural world is created from the spirit, the laws exist in nature, because of what God created in the spirit. The spiritual world is a finer tuned frequency of what is in the natural.

If you take a microscope you can dig very deep into the natural and the deeper you get the finer and more spiritual it gets, even to the point where one can detect spiritual energy.


But I guess you are right from a certain viewpoint and it is easier to place a natural law as a natural law to makes sense to our minds ,i.e keep apples, apples and lets not be confused to much by the seed and the tree that birthed it.

But lets call it a natural law, but the law still exists, so that cows eat grass and not meat and if these are broken death is the result. As a doctor you probably witness many patient eating things that are against natural laws, and this causes them problems, a cycle of death, but if they did things properly the flesh would be in harmony, and so where is the sin?

[shawn]

Yes but the natural world is created from the spirit, the laws exist in nature, because of what God created in the spirit. The spiritual world is a finer tuned frequency of what is in the natural.

If you take a microscope you can dig very deep into the natural and the deeper you get the finer and more spiritual it gets, even to the point where one can detect spiritual energy.


But I guess you are right from a certain viewpoint and it is easier to place a natural law as a natural law to makes sense to our minds ,i.e keep apples, apples and lets not be confused to much by the seed and the tree that birthed it.

But lets call it a natural law, but the law still exists, so that cows eat grass and not meat and if these are broken death is the result. As a doctor you probably witness many patient eating things that are against natural laws, and this causes them problems, a cycle of death, but if they did things properly the flesh would be in harmony, and so where is the sin?

Spiritual sins only apply to spiritual beings who know right from wrong.  While there might be natural consequences to an act of ignorance there is no condemnation (a spiritual consequence).  People that eat without regard to their bodies not only hurt their body (with natural consequences) they abuse the temple of the Holy Spirit (spiritual sin with spiritual consequences).

[thinktank]

Yes, the body is a temple  :bigGrin Jesus said I will destroy this temple and raise it up in three days.

So how can the temple be a temple if the material it is made of is sinfull?

If the material is sinfull, then if one were to eat unclean foods, e.g tobacco smoking , then one is making an unclean temple, more unclean?

[shawn]

Yes, the body is a temple  :bigGrin Jesus said I will destroy this temple and raise it up in three days.

So how can the temple be a temple if the material it is made of is sinfull?

If the material is sinfull, then if one were to eat unclean foods, e.g tobacco smoking , then one is making an unclean temple, more unclean?

I am not as Biblically educated as some here but when I think of flesh...I think "flesh" meaning carnal thinking that leads to indulging pleasures of the flesh that are harmful to the spirit.  I do not believe the body itself is inherently evil.  I do think the body is inherently weak...subject to illness and death.

[micah7:9]

Why do you ask what is "your sin" as if your sin is any different that mine or john doe?

Yes, WHAT IS MY SIN???
Every day an infant is born and that baby needs Jesus to redemption.
WHAT IS THAT INFANT'S SIN?????????
Specifically. What has that child done to deserve death?

Rom 7:18  for I have known that there doth not dwell in me, that is, in my flesh, good: for to will is present with me, and to work that which is right I do not find,


What is our sin, or an infant's sin?  Flesh, that was inherited from Adam.

CHB

[shawn]

A tree is inherently neutral.  It is neither good or evil.  It can be chopped down and used to build shelter, or the fruit from it can be eaten.  In that sense, it can be used for good.  It can also be chopped down and formed into clubs in which one can beat and murder their neighbor.

I believe the body to be same.  I believe when the Bible speaks of the flesh...it isn't always referring to actual flesh but rather that rebellious and carnal parts of our soul that want to use the flesh for pleasures outside the will of God.   :2c:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Not all flesh is the same flesh; there is natural flesh, flesh like lust, hate, bitterness, ect., and we are even told there is celestial (or spiritual) flesh/bodies (He wasn't just talking about stars there).  :2c:

[pollypinks]

New Testament tells us there are no unclean foods.  They weren't expected to live the Mosaic law.  And the physical act of doing something like eating properly is good for our bodies, but cannot change the message of grace.

[Nathan]

To him that knows what they should do and doesn't do it . . .to him it is sin.  Sin merely means missing the mark.  An infant knows nothing about good or evil.  Each child grows into that understanding on an individual basis.  Traditional church thinking is, infants that die go to heaven because they are still in their innocense . . . and then people who are mature enough to make a conscious decision will go to heaven or hell based on their decision making.  You don't hear much about someone who is mentally impaired as to where they go.

"my" sin that is the same as "your" sin is when I miss the mark.  But that missing the mark is where it becomes different to each individual.  It's actually defying your conscience. 

Then there is flesh that is literal (skin) which isn't sinful, but there is also flesh (carnality) which can take the first dimension of flesh (skin) and turn into something sinful (lust of the flesh).

We live in skin because it's our garment to protect us from disease, infection and so forth, it's purpose is to enable us to sustain life in this realm of death.  I for one, don't believe Adam, when he was created as a person, was in the same flesh we're in now.  I believe God covered him with this "skin" covering after he fell from the garden.  Originally, his body did have structure, but it was in a spiritual environment . . the garden was a spiritual realm . . . but when he ate the fruit of knowledge, he chose to be governed by the laws of that tree.

Everyone born into this flesh is also governed by the same laws of the flesh.  But flesh profiteth nothing.  If I leave my flesh up to it's own desires, it will lead to my destruction.  That is the nature of the flesh, it leads to death.  This is the realm of death and our flesh is influenced by the laws governing this realm.

Not sure if this helps . . .just thinking out loud really.

[jabcat]

To him that knows what they should do and doesn't do it . . .to him it is sin.  Sin merely means missing the mark.  An infant knows nothing about good or evil.  Each child grows into that understanding on an individual basis.  Traditional church thinking is, infants that die go to heaven because they are still in their innocense . . . and then people who are mature enough to make a conscious decision will go to heaven or hell based on their decision making.  You don't hear much about someone who is mentally impaired as to where they go.

"Not sure if this helps . . .just thinking out loud really.

Let me also think out loud.  I have a belief, that I can't pull exact, specific scriptures for.  I think it's based at least on multiple scrips, trying to "put them together into a whole".  I think of few stripes/many stripes, much given/much required, every knee bow/every tongue confess along with the Lake of Fire being corrective, purifying, bringing to repentance, and then how much correction and "repentance" would a child, a mentally infirm, or a kind softhearted individual who had never even heard of Jesus actually need?  (Or maybe I'm making it up  :mblush:).  But my belief is that some hardened, "evil through and through" individuals' temporary corrective discipline may be of a longer "age" than those mentioned above - the child, infirm, etc.   It may take Hitler a whole lot of "squirming", fighting, corrective punishment before responding to the Spirit with repentance and confession.  Whereas the others may see Jesus, realize who He is, confess Him joyfully.    I may be wrong on this, again, just some "tentative" thoughts.

[Nathan]

If you think about it . . .wasn't Saul a form of Hitler before he was transformed into Paul?  He set out to cleanse the land of "Christians" in the same manner that Hitler set out to cleanse the world of Jews . . .only difference is the magnitude of numbers . . .but the intent in the heart was very similar. 

Revelation only takes an instant to illuminate . . .anything that Hitler went through after taking his own life is only assumptions after that.

[jabcat]

Well, I've considered that too.  That everyone's "after death the judgment", and "age of correction" may not only be at different times, but pretty "instant".  I actually sort of prefer this possibility, but then I really don't know for sure how God sees it or what His method there is.

[jabcat]

I just thought of this though, related to the OP.  Those disobedient in the days of Noah that Jesus went and preached to, and led them out, were apparently in "holding" for awhile?

[Nathan]

Yeah, until the "New Covenant" arrived . . .so I can't really put much weight on the idea that this is still the case now.