Accusations

[Nathan]

Once again, it's showing how we must actually have to become a heretic to our religious surroundings in order to follow the sound of his voice within us.  How sad is that?  We have to leave the very place that's supposed to be "the" place for people to go to be saved.

I would also encourage you to open your home or at least continue to be a planter of truth that liberates rather than conforms to those around you even though you may have to leave your church to do it.  That's something I've personally kept on the backburner should the day come where I to, am asked to stand down, that even though it's not in the same building, this will not deter me from continuing to spread life and light into the community I'm currently planted in.

[Quaesitor]

Once again, it's showing how we must actually have to become a heretic to our religious surroundings in order to follow the sound of his voice within us.  How sad is that?  We have to leave the very place that's supposed to be "the" place for people to go to be saved.

I would also encourage you to open your home or at least continue to be a planter of truth that liberates rather than conforms to those around you even though you may have to leave your church to do it.  That's something I've personally kept on the backburner should the day come where I to, am asked to stand down, that even though it's not in the same building, this will not deter me from continuing to spread life and light into the community I'm currently planted in.

Exactly, that's what I'll write in the letter they're gonna read to the church. Everybody is welcome in our home to ask us what's going on. If they still want fellowship with us.

In fact, we've received a prophecy about that.

[Paul Hazelwood]

Once again, it's showing how we must actually have to become a heretic to our religious surroundings in order to follow the sound of his voice within us.  How sad is that?  We have to leave the very place that's supposed to be "the" place for people to go to be saved.

I would also encourage you to open your home or at least continue to be a planter of truth that liberates rather than conforms to those around you even though you may have to leave your church to do it.  That's something I've personally kept on the backburner should the day come where I to, am asked to stand down, that even though it's not in the same building, this will not deter me from continuing to spread life and light into the community I'm currently planted in.

Exactly, that's what I'll write in the letter they're gonna read to the church. Everybody is welcome in our home to ask us what's going on. If they still want fellowship with us.

In fact, we've received a prophecy about that.

I think you should be able to address the church personally and read it yourself.  Are you going to be present when it is read?   What is to say the congregation won't get the condensed version?

[Nathan]

Some members in our church had been in a very strict Pentecostal church before coming into ours and they said it was a normal experience for their Pastor to denounce people who'd left the church.  He'd inform the rest of the members to break off any communication with them because they've chosen to leave God.

When this family left that church and came to ours, they got the same treatment.  Religion can be worse than paganism.

[Quaesitor]

To answer, no I will not be present, I'm not welcome there anymore and being there to read my letter would be dangerous for the poor ignorant sheep there. :sigh:

I like to think they'll honestly read it all and if they don't God is their judge.

I've always had that mentality where I believe what people tell me and if they're lying, they are the ones suffering from it.

God is my refuge and my support, He knows the Truth and those who love Him know the truth too.

[Lefein]

You can always post the letter on your facebook as a note just incase.

[Paul Hazelwood]

To answer, no I will not be present, I'm not welcome there anymore and being there to read my letter would be dangerous for the poor ignorant sheep there. :sigh:

I like to think they'll honestly read it all and if they don't God is their judge.

I've always had that mentality where I believe what people tell me and if they're lying, they are the ones suffering from it.

God is my refuge and my support, He knows the Truth and those who love Him know the truth too.

Well, I understand where you are coming from, if it was me and I could not be present, I wouldn't write any letter.   Sounds to me like if your not welcome, then they can't be wanting to read a letter from you for any good purpose.

That is just my opinion.

[Nathan]

Yup, God is trying to unite his body, we keep segregating it. 
Luke 9
49 John said to Jesus, "Master, we saw someone using your name to cast out demons, but we told him to stop because he isn't in our group."
50 But Jesus said, "Don't stop him! Anyone who is not against you is for you."

Religion can't seem to grasp the notion that the Father's house has MANY rooms for all of us to be in different places and yet in the same house.

This one is still resonating on this thread, thought I'd bring it back up again.  ANYONE WHO IS NOT AGAINST YOU, IS FOR YOU.  That really dwindles down a lot of the people they accuse as false prophets and teachers.  I've never been for Christ more in my life than I am right now, and at the same time, I've never been more of a heretic of traditional religion than I am right now as well.  The closer he draws me in, the more defined the line becomes that men of religion have drawn in the sand.

[Quaesitor]

But we do preach another Gospel, that's the whole thing, it is another God and another Jesus. Because we are the first to reject the God who throws people in a burning lake for eternity and then some more.

[Quaesitor]

On a happy note, I had a long discussion with my cousin and he was so open to UR. Everything I was saying and every questions I answered were resonating to his spirit as the truth. He was so excited, as I was, after our conversation, he was eager to talk about it more.
The Lord is really working something, I can't see where it is all going but He has a perfect plan in place.
Love always wins!
:happygrin:

[Nathan]

What a great result to a difficult situation.

[Quaesitor]

Yesterday I was asked to write that letter because I was too vocal about my beliefs and they had to dismiss me as soon as possible. So the pastor would read it today.
I had to apologize to him because when he called, he started to ask me question about stuff I had written on facebook and if I really did believe it. I said: "why is it false?", and he didn't answer, did you even read it? I continued and he said yeah but it was so obvious he hadn't even took the time to read it.

I had posted something like this too:
Standing by my convictions makes me a heretic.
I prefer to be a heretic before men than to be a liar before God.

He complained about it too.
I told him: Is there anything false there?
He didn't knew what to answer.

Finally I said I would send him a letter to manifest my desire to quit the church.
So I went outside and started praying for God to give me words of wisdom to trouble them about what they believe, I was so upset. But you know what happened? God asked me to love them and to send the most gentle and humble letter I could write. No attacks, only apologies to those who were hurt by our depart and to those who are troubled by my words. Words of love and peace. Thank you Lord, He's so loving and gracious.

So I don't know how it went there but let me tell you that the church who met in my bed this morning (wife and I) had a great time, great words from Father and lot of Peace!

Stay tuned.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Sounds just like Him..... :thumbsup:

[Quaesitor]

There's something bothering me about all of this. The day it started, I emailed the x-pastor of the church to explain how I saw the situation and how I didn't like his accusatory remarks. He answered that what I believe is wrong and DANGEROUS (they all say that I can't understand what's so dangerous about it) and then posted verses to prove his position and asked that I answer to them.

I did, refuting all three positions, namely, life eternal, lake of fire and the deadly sin with my understanding of them. Being very honest and saying that I could be wrong about them but that there was a lot more meat on the doctrine.

I then said that in return, he had to answer my own questions.

I presented 1 Tim. 4:10/Galatians 6:10 - especially-
I presented the Jesus Saviour of the World issue, is saving 5% of mankind considered a successfull salvation? Is death defeated if 95% of mankind are still prisonner of it?
Finally I presented Romans 11:30-32 with the all/all question. If all have been locked in stubborness are these the same all that God will have mercy on?

You won't be surprised to learn that it has been 6 days and no reply to this day. It is so DANGEROUS but yet not enough to care it seems.

I do understand that they are veiled to these things, no one can reveal it to them unless God does it.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. Most of the time when confronted with unveiled truth, they can't speak because it's not in their heart to be able to. Also, He does shut the lions mouths from time to time..... :laughing7:

[Nathan]

I got the same exact treatment . . .the Pastor who apparently has many, many credentials was given the opportunity to take 15 minutes of our monthly Pastor's meeting to explain to the others why I was so out of line and he kept using two words over and over . . one was fear.  He feared where I was going, he feared where I was taking the church . . .the other word was . . yup . .dangerous.

Only problem was, when he got done with is "presentation" the other pastors began drilling him to be more specific and all he could do was put his head down on the table in exasperation.  He never did explain it any further.

That was two years ago, just a couple weeks ago, one of the pastors who had been my best supporter, has descretely backed up due to finding out more about what I see.  I never once used the word, but he called me a universalist like it was the plague.  All I told him was, I'm much more comfortable with a universalist' perspective than traditional thinking.

[Quaesitor]

Fear and danger, very Christ-like.
:sigh:

[Quaesitor]

I have not felt fear since I've come to believe in salvation of all. Sorrow, pain for my brothers and sisters in Christ who are enslaved into churchianity, yes. So enslaved that they feel anger toward me, they feel I'm trying to cheat them.

One of my friend, who I've not talked to since being rejected by the church, have met my wife today. He told her he was angered over what I believe. She told him that we both have atheist friends, catholics friends and that we love them anyway. But he said that what I believe is much more worse than that!?!?!

WHAT IN THE WORLD IS SO DANGEROUS ABOUT BELIEVING GOD WILL SAVE ALL???

- What you believe God loves us THAT much, you are definitely an ANTICHRIST!

Sorry, just venting some pressure... :mblush:

[Lefein]

Vent your frustrations friend, even David did so - and continues to vent the frustrations of mankind forever, and ever unto the long lifeages of the eons.  The Psalms he wrote are full of frustrations against God, and man...yet they are the inspired word of God which will never fall, and never fade, even trillions of years after Glory has come to all.

Vent, and be free. :)

And remember dear friend!  People who are enslaved to Churchianity, are angry because they are enslaved from within.  They still believe that it is their work, their confession, their free-will that opened the door for Christ to enter, instead of Christ knocking and opening it himself...afterall he has the keys to Death and Hades, before he enters into our hearts and fills us with Life, our heart is Death and Hades, our own personal chamber in a bleak underworld of lostness, and lifelessness.

God will free them.  God has the keys.  God has the power.  God has the Love.

Life will be all in all, and none shall stand before the all consuming God in glory...None, no Atheist, no Pharisee, no Sadducee, no religion of man shall stand before Truth in Beauty.

You are ahead in the line, but the line is moving forward...their turn will come soon enough.

God is Love.  He is not anger, he is not vengeance, he is not evil, he is not confusing.  God is a judge, and his judgements are righteous...But God is not condemnation, neither is he The Spirit of Condemnation.

Yes...it is true, it is dangerous to believe that God will save all men.  It is very dangerous, it is in fact, one of the, if not the most dangerous of all beliefs on the face of this earth.

The belief in Ultimate Reconciliation is the most destructive belief ever to arise...

It destroys walls, breaks barriers, tears down illusions, burns away our iniquities, and humiliates our pride filled souls...breaks hearts, consumes falsehood, suffocates hatred with love, transforms sin into righteousness against its will through the weapons of Grace, it divides the innocent from the wicked, and collides them back together again, it invades death to pierce the void of it with life, and it tears off our filthy rags and leaves us naked before the Lord, who clothes us with robes of righteousness that he has cleaned with the blood that he shed...

Yes it is destructive...to evil, and yes it is dangerous, to things that are vanity.

[Quaesitor]

More poetry, thank you Lefein.

[Lefein]

You are ever welcome. *hugs*

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Amen, Lefein.... :thumbsup:

[thinktank]

Vent your frustrations friend, even David did so - and continues to vent the frustrations of mankind forever, and ever unto the long lifeages of the eons.  The Psalms he wrote are full of frustrations against God, and man...yet they are the inspired word of God which will never fall, and never fade, even trillions of years after Glory has come to all.

Vent, and be free. :)

And remember dear friend!  People who are enslaved to Churchianity, are angry because they are enslaved from within.  They still believe that it is their work, their confession, their free-will that opened the door for Christ to enter, instead of Christ knocking and opening it himself...afterall he has the keys to Death and Hades, before he enters into our hearts and fills us with Life, our heart is Death and Hades, our own personal chamber in a bleak underworld of lostness, and lifelessness.

God will free them.  God has the keys.  God has the power.  God has the Love.

Life will be all in all, and none shall stand before the all consuming God in glory...None, no Atheist, no Pharisee, no Sadducee, no religion of man shall stand before Truth in Beauty.

You are ahead in the line, but the line is moving forward...their turn will come soon enough.

God is Love.  He is not anger, he is not vengeance, he is not evil, he is not confusing.  God is a judge, and his judgements are righteous...But God is not condemnation, neither is he The Spirit of Condemnation.

Yes...it is true, it is dangerous to believe that God will save all men.  It is very dangerous, it is in fact, one of the, if not the most dangerous of all beliefs on the face of this earth.

The belief in Ultimate Reconciliation is the most destructive belief ever to arise...

It destroys walls, breaks barriers, tears down illusions, burns away our iniquities, and humiliates our pride filled souls...breaks hearts, consumes falsehood, suffocates hatred with love, transforms sin into righteousness against its will through the weapons of Grace, it divides the innocent from the wicked, and collides them back together again, it invades death to pierce the void of it with life, and it tears off our filthy rags and leaves us naked before the Lord, who clothes us with robes of righteousness that he has cleaned with the blood that he shed...

Yes it is destructive...to evil, and yes it is dangerous, to things that are vanity.

Your a great blessing to people here. But you see here is something that some people don't get, yes it is God who is love but yet it is your decision to write this encouragment and allow the love of christ to flow through you. Jesus knocks and we open the door to our life, anyone who comes in any other way is a thief and a robber.

[lomarah]

Finally I said I would send him a letter to manifest my desire to quit the church.
So I went outside and started praying for God to give me words of wisdom to trouble them about what they believe, I was so upset. But you know what happened? God asked me to love them and to send the most gentle and humble letter I could write. No attacks, only apologies to those who were hurt by our depart and to those who are troubled by my words. Words of love and peace. Thank you Lord, He's so loving and gracious.

:cloud9: This made me tear up, God is so awesome and gentle.  :HeartThrob:

[JohnnyCatholic12]

I'm kinda in the same boat as you with minor changes . .one, I'm a pastor, two we're not Baptist, we're Pentecostal.  But it doesn't matter, they're just as appalled.  I'd openned up to a fellow Pastor who was asking about the spiritual things I'd share from time to time and one thing led to another and then the word "univeralism" popped up . . .by him, not me.

I told him I'm not a universalist fully, but I do beleive they're a lot closer to the truth of things than our traditional values.  Now when he posts on his face book, he posts warnings about an evil false doctrine that's infiltraiting in the church called "universalism".  Except he says that it basically means that you think your so spiritual that you go to heaven . .it didn't make much sense to me. 

I sent him a private message . .oh and he also stated that it takes away the power from the cross.  I couldn't help but let out a bit of a gag on that one because that's my beef agianst traditional thinking.  They're the ones that take the power from the cross and give it to the mind of man.

I simply cannot understand that line of thinking.  Hell believers take away from the power of the Cross.  Jesus Christ defeated death.  Hell believers actually believe the Cross in the end was a big victory for Satan.  If ET'ers are right then Hell will be filled the brims will Heaven is like a small town.