Rebuiding of the Temple unscriptural?

[Tony N]

I'm sorry Taffy, but I just do not agree with you.

If Jesus wanted us to know that the wheat is what you said it is, He would not have said the wheat is the sons of the kingdom.
If Jesus wanted us to know that the tares are what you said they are, He would not have said the tares are the sons of the wicked one.

When Jesus comes back he is going to separate the wheat from the tares. He is going to cast out of the kingdom those doing wickedly.

This isn't about the soul and the flesh but about the kingdom of God and who is going to be in it and not in it during the 1000 year reign.

Love ya anyway.

Tony

[Taffy]

I'm sorry Taffy, but I just do not agree with you.

If Jesus wanted us to know that the wheat is what you said it is, He would not have said the wheat is the sons of the kingdom.
If Jesus wanted us to know that the tares are what you said they are, He would not have said the tares are the sons of the wicked one.

When Jesus comes back he is going to separate the wheat from the tares. He is going to cast out of the kingdom those doing wickedly.

This isn't about the soul and the flesh but about the kingdom of God and who is going to be in it and not in it during the 1000 year reign.

Love ya anyway.

Tony

Hi Tony No probs Bud...Non at all :icon_flower:

Love ya too Bro :icon_flower:

Thanks for chatting
:icon_flower:

[YoungYuni]

First the Natural,as was With the First Adam,the Old Covenant, The shadow then the Reality, the New C, etc,

A Temple Build With Hands Has gone and WONT be for mine again,...

I dont read, Natural then spiritual then Back to Natural :dontknow:

Hiya!

I know this is from far back in it this thread.

Speaking along those lines, I am still amazed how many people think they will be raised up in natural bodies that will be made immortal, instead of going from a natural death and remaining dead. Yes, I understand that sounds strange, though the resurrection body is not a nutural body transformed, but a completely new spiritual body.

I do not read us ever going back to a natural body.

I also believe that this new body, is the true Temple.

[peacemaker]

The Sons of the kingdom - Who are they?
And, the Sons of the wicked one - Who are these?

The answer depends on one's understanding of who the Son's are; those of God, or those of man!
Because there are only two, unless Christ was more than both; the Son of God and Son of man.

It amazes me, that most do not understand, "He was tempted, as we are." Yet, He sinned, not! (perhaps, another thread?)

If there are other posts, or threads on the forum with respect to anything brought up herein – please let me know, and I will read them before opening up another discussion. Especially, in reference to demons, devils and Satan.

Thanks!

peacemaker

"A thousand years is but a day."

[Tony N]

First the Natural,as was With the First Adam,the Old Covenant, The shadow then the Reality, the New C, etc,

A Temple Build With Hands Has gone and WONT be for mine again,...

I dont read, Natural then spiritual then Back to Natural :dontknow:

Hiya!

I know this is from far back in it this thread.

Speaking along those lines, I am still amazed how many people think they will be raised up in natural bodies that will be made immortal, instead of going from a natural death and remaining dead. Yes, I understand that sounds strange, though the resurrection body is not a nutural body transformed, but a completely new spiritual body.

I do not read us ever going back to a natural body.

I also believe that this new body, is the true Temple.

Why would God go to all the trouble of opening up millions of tombs and graves of dead saints, and with increddible power bring their bodies back to life and then have them come out of those tombs and graves to meet those who are alive in the air if all they get are spiritual bodies?

Don't make a lick 'o sense to me.

Furthermore it is "first the soulish then the spiritual":
1Co 15:46 But not first the spiritual, but the soulish, thereupon the spiritual."

Right now humanity is soulish. Does that mean we don't have flesh and bones and blood, only souls? It just means our makeup is controlled more by the soul. . . . soulish desires.

Likewise when we are "spiritual" it does not mean we won't have flesh and bones just like Jesus had when He ascended into heaven and will come back like He left.

Luk 24:39 Perceive My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and perceive, for a spirit has not flesh and bones according as you behold Me having."

So being "spiritual" does not mean we won't have a body with bones any more but that we will be controlled by the spirit rather than the soul.
Tony
http://saviourofall.org

[Tony N]

The Sons of the kingdom - Who are they?
And, the Sons of the wicked one - Who are these?

The answer depends on one's understanding of who the Son's are; those of God, or those of man!
Because there are only two, unless Christ was more than both; the Son of God and Son of man.

It amazes me, that most do not understand, "He was tempted, as we are." Yet, He sinned, not! (perhaps, another thread?)

If there are other posts, or threads on the forum with respect to anything brought up herein – please let me know, and I will read them before opening up another discussion. Especially, in reference to demons, devils and Satan.

Thanks!

peacemaker

"A thousand years is but a day."

Dear peacemaker, the quote which ends your post is suspect:

2Pe 3:8 Now of this one thing you are not to be oblivious, beloved, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day."

It is a figure of speech called a simile. It is not saying one day is a thousand years or a thousand years is one day but that it is as . . . . or "like".

Furthermore, Jesus told us what the tares and wheat represent:

Mat 13:37-42  Now He, answering, said, "He Who is sowing the ideal seed is the Son of Mankind."  (38)  Now the field is the world. Now the ideal seed, these are the sons of the kingdom. Now the darnel are the sons of the wicked one."  (39)  Now the enemy who sows them is the Adversary. Now the harvest is the conclusion of the eon. Now the reapers are messengers.  (40)  Even as the darnel, then, are being culled and burned up with fire, thus shall it be in the conclusion of the eon."  (41)  The Son of Mankind shall be dispatching His messengers, and they shall be culling out of His kingdom all the snares and those doing lawlessness,  (42)  and they shall be casting them into a furnace of fire. There shall be lamentation and gnashing of teeth.

Sower = Son of Mankind = Jesus
Field = world
ideal seed = sons of the kingdom
darnel = sons of the wicked one
Enemy sower = Adversary = Satan
harvest = conclusion of the eon
furnace of fire = eonian chastening along with the nations that did not succor Jesus' brethren (Matt.25:31-46).

Jesus did not say the sons were either sons of God or sons of man as you imply. They are either sons of the kingdom or sons of the wicked one. (period).

Tony

[crowbar]

Tony, give me one good reason in your own words why God would return to animal sacrifice after the cross.  It makes no sense.

I'll give you a couple instead of one:

• The bible says there will be sacrifices
• Because it is a means that God will use to show them the real meaning of sacrifice.
• Besides that, I don't think that the sacrifices are for sin but for approach.

26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

That is saying Christ can't come and be a sacrifice for sins again.

Been wanting to respond to this one to . . .
To the first one, our discussion derives from the fact that one thinks the Bible says it's going to happen, and the other believes that part of the law is already fulfilled . . .so you're really not answering the question.

Second . . really have a hard time digesting that one . . .
What your'e saying is . .the cross then, wasn't enough . .now God is going to go "back" to the very thing that "he" violently removed because it was never intended to be permenant, but always was to be a pattern of Christ, the ultimate sacrifice. And God allowed the slaughter of those who chose to take the curse upon themselves rather than accept Christ as the Messiah, just so now, God can "return" to the pattern after Christ again in order to . . .how'd you put it . . .show them the real meaning of sacrifice  Seriously???

So Jesus dying on the cross wasn't the "real" meaning of sacrifice?  OR . . . the labor of the priests really "do" cause one to achieve righteousness?  You're killin' me!!


Then the number three seemed to revert to logistics . . .

I am convinced . . .what God opens, no man can close, and what God closes, no man can open.  It was God who brought an end to the sacrifices . .that was the shaking Hebrews 12 is referring to.  It was the final shaking of Israel to loose them from conforming to the old religious system.  I take the Bible just as literal as the next guy . . .but I try to keep it within the generation to who it was literally written to.

I mean . .if we really think about this. . .the Jews have ALWAYS wanted to go back to their original way of worship . . .just like they did way back in the Old Covenant . . .somebody would come along go to war, kick their little butts .  . wipe out the city, tear down the temple . . .and leave . .the Jews would come back in . . pick up the pieces, rebuild said temple, and continue on with their ritualistic worship . .and that's great, they were supposed to because Christ had not yet come.

BUT . . .when Christ "did" come . . .enemy comes in, they go to war, kick their butts, destroy the city . . .demolish the temple . . and leave . . .but FOR SOME STRANGE REASON it's been 2000 years and nobody has BEEN ABLE to rebuild the thing . .even though the desire for it has never faltered, no one has rebuilt it.  Doesn't that seem just a little odd to you?

Unless . . .

What God tears down, can not be rebuilt.

[Molly]

Hi crowbar--

Makes sense to me.   :thumbsup:

But that's not to say they won't try.  I know they want to...

What worries me, if they do try, all hell will break lose, because that is one of the holiest places to 1 billion muslims.

[Tony N]

Tony, give me one good reason in your own words why God would return to animal sacrifice after the cross.  It makes no sense.

I'll give you a couple instead of one:

• The bible says there will be sacrifices
• Because it is a means that God will use to show them the real meaning of sacrifice.
• Besides that, I don't think that the sacrifices are for sin but for approach.

26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

That is saying Christ can't come and be a sacrifice for sins again.

Been wanting to respond to this one to . . .
To the first one, our discussion derives from the fact that one thinks the Bible says it's going to happen, and the other believes that part of the law is already fulfilled . . .so you're really not answering the question.

Second . . really have a hard time digesting that one . . .
What your'e saying is . .the cross then, wasn't enough . .now God is going to go "back" to the very thing that "he" violently removed because it was never intended to be permenant, but always was to be a pattern of Christ, the ultimate sacrifice. And God allowed the slaughter of those who chose to take the curse upon themselves rather than accept Christ as the Messiah, just so now, God can "return" to the pattern after Christ again in order to . . .how'd you put it . . .show them the real meaning of sacrifice  Seriously???

So Jesus dying on the cross wasn't the "real" meaning of sacrifice?  OR . . . the labor of the priests really "do" cause one to achieve righteousness?  You're killin' me!!


Then the number three seemed to revert to logistics . . .

I am convinced . . .what God opens, no man can close, and what God closes, no man can open.  It was God who brought an end to the sacrifices . .that was the shaking Hebrews 12 is referring to.  It was the final shaking of Israel to loose them from conforming to the old religious system.  I take the Bible just as literal as the next guy . . .but I try to keep it within the generation to who it was literally written to.

I mean . .if we really think about this. . .the Jews have ALWAYS wanted to go back to their original way of worship . . .just like they did way back in the Old Covenant . . .somebody would come along go to war, kick their little butts .  . wipe out the city, tear down the temple . . .and leave . .the Jews would come back in . . pick up the pieces, rebuild said temple, and continue on with their ritualistic worship . .and that's great, they were supposed to because Christ had not yet come.

BUT . . .when Christ "did" come . . .enemy comes in, they go to war, kick their butts, destroy the city . . .demolish the temple . . and leave . . .but FOR SOME STRANGE REASON it's been 2000 years and nobody has BEEN ABLE to rebuild the thing . .even though the desire for it has never faltered, no one has rebuilt it.  Doesn't that seem just a little odd to you?

Unless . . .

What God tears down, can not be rebuilt.

crowbar, I like your handle.
Obviously God did not tear down the sacrificial system because it is going to be re-instituted during the 1000 year reign.
It doesn't seem odd to me that no one has rebuilt the temple yet for almost 2000 years. That is because it is not time yet. I imagine the man of lawlessness must be the one to do it and then he will show that he is God then Christ comes back and kicks his butt.

Anyway, the sacrifices of the Mosaic law looked forward to the death of Christ. They did not replace Christ's death and in fact could not make anyone righteous. The sacrifices in the future, which the Scriptures, which cannot be annulled, say must occur, look backwards to the death of Christ. Again, they cannot make anyone righteous as the sacrifice of Christ only can.

[Molly]

Obviously God did not tear down the sacrificial system because it is going to be re-instituted during the 1000 year reign.

To what purpose?  Is this something that man is going to do on his own?  Or, is God in favor of this?

[Zeek]

Tony, give me one good reason in your own words why God would return to animal sacrifice after the cross.  It makes no sense.

I'll give you a couple instead of one:

• The bible says there will be sacrifices
• Because it is a means that God will use to show them the real meaning of sacrifice.
• Besides that, I don't think that the sacrifices are for sin but for approach.

26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

That is saying Christ can't come and be a sacrifice for sins again.

Been wanting to respond to this one to . . .
To the first one, our discussion derives from the fact that one thinks the Bible says it's going to happen, and the other believes that part of the law is already fulfilled . . .so you're really not answering the question.

Second . . really have a hard time digesting that one . . .
What your'e saying is . .the cross then, wasn't enough . .now God is going to go "back" to the very thing that "he" violently removed because it was never intended to be permenant, but always was to be a pattern of Christ, the ultimate sacrifice. And God allowed the slaughter of those who chose to take the curse upon themselves rather than accept Christ as the Messiah, just so now, God can "return" to the pattern after Christ again in order to . . .how'd you put it . . .show them the real meaning of sacrifice  Seriously???

So Jesus dying on the cross wasn't the "real" meaning of sacrifice?  OR . . . the labor of the priests really "do" cause one to achieve righteousness?  You're killin' me!!


Then the number three seemed to revert to logistics . . .

I am convinced . . .what God opens, no man can close, and what God closes, no man can open.  It was God who brought an end to the sacrifices . .that was the shaking Hebrews 12 is referring to.  It was the final shaking of Israel to loose them from conforming to the old religious system.  I take the Bible just as literal as the next guy . . .but I try to keep it within the generation to who it was literally written to.

I mean . .if we really think about this. . .the Jews have ALWAYS wanted to go back to their original way of worship . . .just like they did way back in the Old Covenant . . .somebody would come along go to war, kick their little butts .  . wipe out the city, tear down the temple . . .and leave . .the Jews would come back in . . pick up the pieces, rebuild said temple, and continue on with their ritualistic worship . .and that's great, they were supposed to because Christ had not yet come.

BUT . . .when Christ "did" come . . .enemy comes in, they go to war, kick their butts, destroy the city . . .demolish the temple . . and leave . . .but FOR SOME STRANGE REASON it's been 2000 years and nobody has BEEN ABLE to rebuild the thing . .even though the desire for it has never faltered, no one has rebuilt it.  Doesn't that seem just a little odd to you?

Unless . . .

What God tears down, can not be rebuilt.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Zeek]

Hi crowbar--

Makes sense to me.   :thumbsup:

But that's not to say they won't try.  I know they want to...

What worries me, if they do try, all hell will break lose, because that is one of the holiest places to 1 billion muslims.

why does that worry you Molly??

[crowbar]

You said . . .
Obviously God did not tear down the sacrificial system because it is going to be re-instituted during the 1000 year reign.

Which I find extremely funny . . .because I believe the exact same thing.  God did not tear down the sacrifice because it is going to be rebuilt.  He tore it down because THERE'S NO USE FOR IT ANYMORE . . .I think you forgot to add that part on the end.

Seriously . . . to say what you're saying . .then Jesus lied . . .it "isn't" finished . .and he didn't die once . .and . . .for . . .ALL.

Up to this point, I have understood your argument.  I wholly understand your premise and reasoning.  Like you with me, I've disagreed with you . . .but now at this point, I'm somewhat surprised that you truly feel that even though the tabernacle was patterned after Christ . . and even though when Christ came, that Levitical order was removed as the New order under the line of Melchezedec came in . .that you "still" think the Bible teaches that after all of that . . .the old order is going to be "re" established . .that is truly a head-scratcher.  I'm at a loss of words . . .I'm sure they'll eventually come . . .but I'm not sure anything I say at this point is going to be of any benefit.

[Taffy]

I Think Tony mentioned its for the  Folk to UNDERSTAND the purpose of the Sacrifices :icon_flower:

[Zeek]

my guess is, is it's because Tony thinks Israel was "set aside", to be dealt with at a later time; while the "chuch age of grace" is going on now.

[Molly]

Hi crowbar--

Makes sense to me.   :thumbsup:

But that's not to say they won't try.  I know they want to...

What worries me, if they do try, all hell will break lose, because that is one of the holiest places to 1 billion muslims.

why does that worry you Molly??

Because, among other things, it will mean world war three, and millions of people will die--needlessly.

[Molly]

Taffy, the man of lawlessness is DEMONSTRATING that he is God.

2Th 2:3-4  No one should be deluding you by any method, for, should not the apostasy be coming first and the man of lawlessness be unveiled, the son of destruction,  (4)  who is opposing and lifting himself up over everyone termed a god or an object of veneration, so that he is seated in the temple of God, demonstrating that he himself is God?

It is one thing to "proclaim to be God" and quite another to "demonstrate that he himself is God."

Tony, if the temple of God is the body (which we know it is) why can't this be referring to satan entering a human body and lording it over the world with signs and wonders?  Maybe pretending to be the returning Messiah...and duping the whole world...

What makes you think this is referring to some temple in Jerusalem?


23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25Behold, I have told you before.

26Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

28For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

--Mat 24

[crowbar]

actually Molly, if one would look at the definition of that word "temple" in 2 Thessalonians, one would find that it's the exact same Greek word Paul used when he stated "What, know ye not that you are a "temple" of the Holy Ghost????

Same word .  .same meaning.  The temple really is you and the man of lawlessness is your soul . . .your carnal mind.  It's is is your Eve that is constantly desiring after your Adam.  Always wanting the control . .my mind is always wanting to "understand" everything before I "decide" whether or not it's acceptable. . . .the mind is always that part of us that wants everything done  . .and not only just "done" but "done a certain way".  The spirit is like the wind . . .there is no real logic or reasoning as to where it comes from or where it goes . .but the carnal mind likes everything in straight order.

When I give in to my carnal mind, I am letting "that" take the throne of my "temple"

What?  Know ye not that you are the "temple"?  Built with living stones with Christ as the cornerstone.  He did as he said he would do . . .'tear this temple down (flesh) and in three days (resurrection) I (not man) will build it up . . .we are in the third day.

[Molly]

"temple"

G3485
ναός
naos
nah-os'
From a primary word ναίω naiō (to dwell); a fane, shrine, temple: - shrine, temple. Compare G2411.


Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,

--Acts 7:48

[Taffy]

we are in the third day.

:icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower:

[CHB]

we are in the third day.

Nathan, Would you please explain. Are you saying two thousand years have past and we are in the 3rd thousand years? How far into this 3rd day before the return of Christ? At the beginning or toward the end? Or, do you see this in another way?

CHB 

[peacemaker]

Dear peacemaker, the quote which ends your post is suspect:

Dearest Tony,

"Knowing is power; understanding is wisdom."

2Pe 3:8 Now of this one thing you are not to be oblivious, beloved, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day." It is a figure of speech called a simile. It is not saying one day is a thousand years or a thousand years is one day but that it is as . . . . or "like".

But of course...

Obviously, God did not tear down the sacrificial system because it is going to be re-instituted during the 1000 year reign.

Is a simile, "like" a sacrificial system, equal to a literal one-thousand years?

"To freeze a moment in time is to be forever stuck in the same place."

Furthermore, Jesus told us what the tares and wheat represent:

"God looks at the heart, not at the label."

Living according to the prince of the air - that which is unseen (i.e., the wicked one) is to walk after the "lusts of our flesh" which comes from within us, based on our heart condition - not from anything outside of us.

David's lust (temptation) which led to adultery and murder came from within "the heart of man." As everyone is tempted by his own inordinate desires; a snare of the intents of the heart, which is, then, conceived in the mind.

Our sinful heart is the father of lies; the seed of corruption.

"And GOD saw that the wickedness of man [was] great in the earth, and [that] every imagination of the thoughts of his heart [was] only evil continually." (Genesis 6:5)

And, Jesus said, "But those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile a man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornication, thefts, false witness, blasphemies. These are the things which defile a man."

The heart of man will misuse the Holy Word of God, and many false prophets will come, professing to be an angel (messenger) of light – truth.

According to the Scriptures, the heart is the center of all the operations of human life – and "so as a man thinks." The nature of man's deepest, most sincerest feelings and beliefs, come from the heart; the spirit of man!
When we speak a lie, it is not from some evil spirit being that has entered us -"For nothing that has entered, can defile a man." But that which comes out of their mouth! A mind has the capacity to reason; but the impulse of the heart wants the final say.

The idea of something entering Judas, may have actually been  the thoughts of others - those who were an adversary (Satan) of Christ. But Judas was the responsible party, in Christ own words:

"Woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed!"

"What you are going to do, do quickly."

Judas wasn't a robot (without a mind of his own), but he may have been a puppet on someone's satanic string.
It is man who chooses to smoke, drink, curse, steal, lie, hate, and betray others – including the murdering of the innocent. Our Father, the true and living God, does not cause us to sin!

"If you defile a river with sewage; the water is not potable."

To desire anything earnestly is from the heart, and the condition of determines our health.

One of the definitions of the word "accusation" deals with charging someone with a crime based on mere words, thus, we are convicted upon "suspicion" caused by the accuser and charged judicially with an offense; to be suspected of wrong  – a public process!

The tongue can be sharper than a needle filled with a lethal injection; extremely venomous.

God knew what Joseph's eleven brothers had intended, and our Father knew what would happen to his Christ - "Let us crucify, him!"

They publicly sacrificed the "innocent" of God, who exposed them for who and what they are – giving his life in the process. Yet, many do not truly understand the story:

"If I be lifted up; put to death."

True correction comes from the Spirit. And all will come to the knowledge of the truth, for we will all wake up on the other side of the bed - the right side of the story:

"I desire mercy, not sacrifice."

Of course, I will be accused of heresy by some, as they return to their former way of life. Not willing to suffer with him, rather, they will continue to paint the story of having him suffer for them, while they collect millions.

Have you ever been told, that "you" would crucify him, all over again? Think about that one for a few hundred years.

In the scheme of things the beast-man recuperates his old traditions, missing the mark as he lives in a wilderness museum of the natural; the blind guides, fools, whitewashed tombs that are full of corruption, lawless men, serpents, snakes - a brood of vipers - seed counting, gnat straining, camel swallowing murderers.

But, the water of life will destroy the adulterous and perjured woman, in due time! There is a season for everything.

So, how much has man added, or taken away from the truth? Appears, he has been a liar, an accuser, and a murderer of the innocent from the beginning – just to name a few.

The Atonement is to be AT ONE MENT with God, and this is the work of Christ; His Spirit. It wasn't merely a "substitution theory" of, as we continue to die in our sin - "for the wages of sin is death!"

Those who see only his outward form on the cross of humanity for their sin, do not understand the grace he brought to them:

"Reconciliation, in the blood of the innocent."

In the case of Jesus' death, something else happened other than his just being a scapegoat or blood sacrifice to many, thus, we are forced to confront the reality of the cross because he did not stay sacrificed. He was only wounded for our transgressions, being the "sacrifice to end all sacrifices" from the very foundation of the world. And He lives.

Is there a cure for cancer? Yes, of course there is, but the community at large still prefers to maintain an economical foundation based on the continuation of sacrifice.

These indoctrinations of men, such as; tithing, hell fire, blood atonements, imaginary serpents and the victimization of the innocent are fugacious at best. An "us" and "them" mentality.

If we do not change our lifestyle and eating habits, especially of adhering to the thoughts of the majority - we will not understand the true cure, rather, one will continue in the sacrificing of the innocent, and the lies of the serpent.

"He takes no pleasure in the death of another."

Man seems to be satisfied and concerned about their ransom which governs their life, but not for that of the innocent.

We have no obligation to the sinful nature (the wicked one), nor to any thought that is dubious, rather, let His Spirit lead you - transcending the minds of men from death to life, according to His Will.

Many, unwittingly, have suppressed the truth, so as a man thinks.However,  a negative cannot exist without a positive, else we'd have no charge.

It was their hands that lifted him up to the cross, yet, he lays down his life willingly in order to draw all men to himself.

"When I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw all men to myself." (John 12:32).

When he was put to death, his Spirit came to all men, each in due time and order.

Perhaps thoughts of the ascension of Jesus may come to mind - Jesus going up higher and higher on a staircase of clouds - undeniably powerful and almighty.

Being lifted up has many connotations of honor and glory. The only problem, I see, is that Jesus wasn't referring to any of this, as nowhere in the Bible does it suggest that God's followers are supposed to "lift him up" or "crucify him."

You only depend on textural proof? Then, how do you even know that Jesus spoke that which is written? How did Peter know who Christ was?

"...But what about you, he asked ...Who do you say I am?"

This question was not answered through a public opinion poll.

"Blessed are you ...for this was not revealed to you by man ...but by my Father (Spirit) in heaven."

What a revelation!

The right, power, or privilege of making a choice requires judgment. And, we live by the consequences of our decisions; right or wrong. May we merit to always make the proper selection!

Giving us a choice, is not at the expense of his Sovereignty, nor does this subject God to our thoughts and ways.

If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit, not in the lusts of the flesh. Nor in the demons of the mind that have been placed there by the fallen messengers of times past.

For this reason, I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord from whom all in the heavens and earth is named, in order that He might give us according to the riches of His power, to be strengthened in the inner man through His Spirit, that He might dwell in our hearts (renewing our mind) through faith; having become rooted and grounded in love in order that we might be strengthened to firmly grasp with all wisdom, what is the width, length, depth and height – and to know the love of God which surpasses all human understanding in order that we be filled to the completeness of Him, who is able to do exceedingly above all we ask or think according to the power that is working in us!

"So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal ...we live by faith, not by sight." (2 Corinthians 4:18 and 5:7)

Was the Bible ever intended to be understood, as literal - a news report? Or are the Scriptures designed to reach into the deepest regions of the soul, transforming each of us into a new person. If so, are we prepared to accept this transformation?

"Those that do not remember the past, merely repeat it."

And, my apologies for the shortness of this response ...with love!


peacemaker

The only one in the temple of God at present, other than His Spirit, is you! (Just a closing thought.)

[Molly]

27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

What does that mean?  He's going to be everywhere at once?

The sons? :mshock:

:bigGrin:

[Tony N]

27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

What does that mean?  He's going to be everywhere at once?

The sons? :mshock:

:bigGrin:

No. When it is dark out and you see lightning from the east and it goes to the west it is very apparent that you just saw a lightning bolt. You don't have to squint to see it or try to find its appearing. So also it will be like that when the Son of man comes. It will be very apparent to all.
Obviously Jesus didn't come in 70 A.D. because it was apparent to no one.

[Zeek]

Let's see, if God specially chose you to be a special nation, a light to the world; placed you in a special garden, formed covenant/relationship with you, saved you from slavery in Egypt, parted the Red Sea for you, and over and over and over again showed you his mercy and love; gave you the ark, the temple, the law, etc, etc; and disciplined you as a father to a child, etc. etc...

and then brought John the Baptist years later onto the scene, then Jesus himself full of signs and wonders, then the cross, and the resurrection, and then the incredible signs and work of the apostles; and despite all this; you chose to still stay attached to the physical temple and all it's ordinances, despite warnings and warnings, signs and signs; and the spreading of the gospel to the whole world, and the message of repent, turn from the physical to the spiritual; and still rebellion, the message of TIME is AT HAND

and then,

WAM,

your temple and Holy city are destroyed; that wouldnt' be as a lightning bolt, a big wake up call, a shame brought upon you and your people;

a "seeing your house come crashing down". 

How do you know that it OBVIOUSLY wasn't known to covenant Israel??