We all deserve Hell

[willieH]

willieH: Hi Jenna... :hithere:

Just wanted to say Hi & let you know I got kicked off the "evidence" forum... CSLewisLover gave me the "heave-ho" last night, because I objected to him basing his disagreement with me, using the "Moody Handbook of Theology" as his proofs... :rolleye:

A comment about your reply to Legoman... I only wish to be informative, not arguementative...  :nod:  :friendstu:  ...you are more than welcome to disagree with me if you wish...  :happygrin:

Most of this makes sense, except for the part where you say that God intended for us to be sinners so we could experience sin and evil. I don't believe this at all. God's intention was for us to be perfect. It is us who makes the choice not to be.

Are you saying that an "intention" of the PERFECT God got thwarted by man?  How can that be?   :Chinscratch:

If we say that "it IS God's intention to make us PERFECT", I wholly agree, for it is a process that includes suffering which is at the hand of EVIL -- Heb 2:10 -- for it is via suffering that CHRIST found perfection (completion)

Was it not GOD who designed what sin IS, and what it entails?  And was it not GOD that Created EVIL, which, when practiced, produces SIN? -- Isaiah 45:7

We certainly DO choose, but those "choices" only occur according to the PERFECT FOREKNOWLEDGE of God, which sees ALL things before they occur...  Our "choices" cannot be otherwise.  Contrary to the thought of many, ...IN REALITY, ...there are NO ACTUAL alternative scenarios... only IMAGINED ones....

Let me put it this way... When GOD "personally" wrote His WORD (the LAW) it was WRITTEN IN STONE... this was NOT done by coincidence it was PURPOSED.  That which is IN HIS WORD, is UNCHANGEABLE and "written IN STONE", ...and He PURPOSELY "wrote" this way for us to see that example...  :declare: :reachout:

NONE of the things which are "written" in the WORD, could have happened otherwise. NONE... and so REALITY follows this same program... what HAPPENS, ...HAPPENS.  The alternative thinkings that men have (that they "could've" chosen otherwise) ...are nothing but IMAGINATIONS, and they DO and DID, ...NOT HAPPEN...  :dontknow:

It is my observation that, too many times... even believers think they "choose" independently from GOD... this cannot be, and Scripture more than notes it to be so...

For we are CLAY which is molded BY the Great POTTER... and in the HAND of the POTTER is the CLAY MARRED -- Jer 18:4  If we consider GOD as PERFECT, and we become "MARRED" while in His HAND, then how can that IMPERFECTION ...NOT... be INTENDED?  If we look at it as UNINTENDED, then a MISTAKE occured in GOD's processing and He can no longer be considered PERFECT!  :mshock: ... :mnah:

Of the same lump is a vessel of DISHONOR made BY HIM -- Rom 9:21 -- as is the vessel of HONOR...  If He is MAKING a vessel of DISHONOR, then it is part of HIS INTENTION... and that part is PERFECT as well, for it contributes to the GLORY of the HONOR which is to come by the comparison to it, of the VESSEL of HONOR to be revealed!

GOD decided, before the Creation was even manifest, that CHRIST would DIE at the hands of men -- Rev 13:8 -- This could NOT have been avoided by CHRIST, nor by the men that did it...

If it WOULD have been avoided, then IMPERFECTION would be found IN GOD... and what He "decided", did not in fact, occur...

The very ACT of CHRIST being slain (killed), is a SIN... and was INTENDED by GOD, to happen, just as it occured -- before even one grain of sand was manifest in Creation...

GOD takes ALL things which include both GOOD and EVIL, and makes them work together for GOOD... The only reason EVIL has been TEMPORARILY  existent, is to be a memorial (not practice) that FOREVER stands to GLORIFY the GREATNESS of the GOOD which GOD ...IS...

The GREAT LIGHT of the FATHER (of LIGHTS [us] -- John 1:9 -- James 1:17) is shown to be its BRIGHTEST, in the FACE of DARKNESS... and that "DARKNESS" NEVER has, and NEVER WILL, ...have ANY POWER over it...

...willieH  :cloud9:

[jabcat]

 :goodpost:  Willi

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Doug, I re-read it today and have you ever had one of those things where you're sitting on the edge of your seat, because you can almost hear whatever the "missing link" that is necessary for Him add another "layer" of understanding in you? Well, that's where I'm at with that. Just like how He does us with scriptures, sometimes I have to read something half a dozen times before the life of it is released. So.....still reading.......Blessings.......

And Willie, I second that  :thumbsup:

[martincisneros]

Just wanted to say Hi & let you know I got kicked off the "evidence" forum... CSLewisLover gave me the "heave-ho" last night, because I objected to him basing his disagreement with me, using the "Moody Handbook of Theology" as his proofs... :rolleye:

Haven't read your whole post [yet] as of when I'm giving this reply, but I just needed a minute to bust out laughing! :rolllol:

[Tim B]

Hey WillieH,

I think a really good Biblical response to the same question you answered is to quote Romans 11:32.

"32For God has consigned (penned up) all men to disobedience, only that He may have mercy on them all [alike]."

God set us up for this ("this" being our fallen world). So he could rescue us and show us mercy.  :bigGrin:

Awesome message btw, I'd just thought I'd share with you this verse because I really like it now that I believe in UR!

[willieH]

willieH: Hi Tim...  :cloud9:

Hey WillieH,

I think a really good Biblical response to the same question you answered is to quote Romans 11:32.

"32For God has consigned (penned up) all men to disobedience, only that He may have mercy on them all [alike]."

God set us up for this ("this" being our fallen world). So he could rescue us and show us mercy.  :bigGrin:

Awesome message btw, I'd just thought I'd share with you this verse because I really like it now that I believe in UR!

I agree brother T... Great verse! ...I use it quite often in my postings on ET forums...  :laughing7:

Quick question, when did you come to believe UR?  How long did you believe otherwise? (ET or Annhilation?)

It would be way cool to hear your testimony and journey!   :friendstu:

...willieH  :laughing7:

[Tim B]

willieH: Hi Tim...  :cloud9:

Hey WillieH,

I think a really good Biblical response to the same question you answered is to quote Romans 11:32.

"32For God has consigned (penned up) all men to disobedience, only that He may have mercy on them all [alike]."

God set us up for this ("this" being our fallen world). So he could rescue us and show us mercy.  :bigGrin:

Awesome message btw, I'd just thought I'd share with you this verse because I really like it now that I believe in UR!

I agree brother T... Great verse! ...I use it quite often in my postings on ET forums...  :laughing7:

Quick question, when did you come to believe UR?  How long did you believe otherwise? (ET or Annhilation?)

It would be way cool to hear your testimony and journey!   :friendstu:

...willieH  :laughing7:

Well, I was raised in a Christian family so I always believed in, more or less, God and Jesus and Hell (ET/eternal conscious torment). Within the past year/years (maybe 2-3 years) however, I tried to understand the concept behind ET in my head. Why would God damn so many people to Hell, especially people I cared about, and my family (not my immediate family) and friends? I couldn't understand for the life of me. Sure, there was "answers" to my questions, but none of them made me feel better. One particular evening I REALLY, REALLY asked God about it. Basically I said/asked, "Now, I know about Hell, and the idea behind it, of it supposedly being justice and all, but I can't, for the life of me, see how it's fair! If it's fair, or if it's not fair, I'd really like to have your input on it. Whatever the answer, whether Hell is what I think it is, or isn't, please guide me to the truth!" So, interestingly enough, while surfing an Intelligent Design blog I ran across a fellow believer who, rather than believing in ET, believed in annihilation. Interested I asked him about WHY he believed in annihilation what backed up his beliefs in such a Hell. He gave me his evidence, which he stated was mainly the Bible (and it was), and after further researching I felt like this must be a confirmation from God that what I believed was Hell (that it is ET) was not true, let alone biblical. This gave me a bit more peace, in my mind, as to the fate of the lost. I held on to this idea for several months, yet, I STILL couldn't wrap my head around it. I was still stuck thinkin', "What about all the people I care about? What about the "good" people out there that never come to know you? Will they just be destroyed and I won't ever be able to see them again?" My sister entertained ideas of Christian Universalism, as well as did my mother. And although my mother tended to side with my views on annihilation, I believe my sister continued to entertain the idea of UR (and funny thing is, she's only 13!!). So UR wasn't, at this point in my life, a completely foreign idea to me. Then, one day I remember talking to one of my parents' friends about God and what I thought about Hell (aka believing it to now be annihilation), and I was, because of my research, beginning to ponder the idea of certain non-believers becoming saved despite not knowing Christ within their Earthly life (which I felt was possibly backed up in some specific verse in Romans). I remember saying, "I just don't think I can look at God the way I used to." And still the thought of losing my friends continued to haunt my thoughts, and so, finally decided, "What the heck!" and I looked up Christian Universalism, expecting it to be full of wishful thinking and unbiblical. But, as it turns out, I was completely wrong. (Among the sites that proved me wrong was this site!) Once I realized that many early Christians believed in UR; that Paul (the apostle) seemed to support the idea of UR; and most importantly, that aionion wasn't "eternal" and that "Hell" wasn't actually in the scriptures, but rather sheol, Hades, gehenna and Tarturus. Being a very deep thinking man, and always wanting to back up my beliefs with "evidence" I felt like I could finally rest at peace knowing that God was really going to save ALL MEN, including those I cared about, and I didn't even have to fear him myself (as believers so often do), and I had proof to back it up! Plus, to say the very least, it felt right with m conscious. How many ETers deny their consciouses to uphold a doctrine that just must be true!

Now basically my entire family believes in UR. My sister got excited once I realized that there was support for her views, my mom totally agrees with the basics behind UR (that all will be saved), my dad is really leaning towards UR, but my brother, unfortunately, still holds to ET/eternal conscious torment. On another note: two parents that are my parent's friends also seem to be really leaning towards/agree with UR. Their daughter said that my thoughts on religion (UR and such) are the closest to hers of anybody she's ever known. Their son seems to have his own thoughts on religion (he believes in God, but not Hell, but I'm not really sure what else). So a lot of blessings have come through God leading me to UR!!  :bigGrin:

So, thinking back over my life I probably believed in ET for roughly 10 years, annihilation for five-ish months, and UR for just the past month or two. But it's been a glorious two months!!  :bigGrin:

And that's more or less my testimony as of now. lol

[claypot]

One very cool thing IMO is that it doesn't affect God in the least what we believe. Whether annihilation, eternal torment or all saved at some point. It doesn't change a thing in the grand scheme of things.

I'm not saying we shouldn't speak our beliefs, we should. We should also live them but still it does not change the way God/Life is moving. It moves onward, shaping the wrong and the right.

It's good for us to discuss things IMO but we should never fear or worry or argue in a frustrated way. If we have faith that God is moving like a bulldozer, slowly but surely, we will speak our minds and smile at all opposing views. We will smile not because we are smug in our beliefs, thinking our beliefs are right and others are wrong but we will smile knowing that even our beliefs, where in error, will be plowed over as the All moves over us.

Just my  :2c:

cp

[Beloved Servant]

I hear ya CP.
Slowly but surely.
But, as a footnote,
Search the scriptures sometime for the word:
                                                                 "suddenly."

[claypot]

I hear ya CP.
Slowly but surely.
But, as a footnote,
Search the scriptures sometime for the word:
                                                                 "suddenly."

I think I hear ya BServ. God can move in a way that makes lightening seem very slow when He wants to.

Not hard for a Being not really connected to the constricts of time and space. Fast or slow is not an issue for the Infinite.

cp

[Beloved Servant]

Ahh yes,
But more than only a Being.
He is Our Father.
Our Creator.
No Renaissance white beard here.
A loving, caring, Father.
With, now, a family.

[Beloved Servant]

Mark 14:36

36 - and he said, `Abba, Father; all things are possible to Thee; make this cup pass from me; but, not what I will, but what Thou.'

Young's Literal Translation (YLT)


Romans 8:15

15 - for ye did not receive a spirit of bondage again for fear, but ye did receive a spirit of adoption in which we cry, `Abba -- Father.'

Young's Literal Translation (YLT)



Galatians 4:6

6 - and because ye are sons, God did send forth the spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying, `Abba, Father!'

[claypot]

I hear ya BServ but I'm thinking when Jesus said 'Father', an image of God was in His mind much different than when we say Father.

Jesus seemed to always be trying to get us to see God in a much grander way than we normally would.

cp

[Beloved Servant]

Ah! Yes!
Our Father (of course) is not the same as many call "dad" in their physical youth.
He is the Father of Spirits.
As our spiritual-man matures, we see Him as He is.

[Beloved Servant]

                                                     My God, My Lord, My Savior, My Father
                                                                            My Friend

                                           www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnKlyCF5TIQ&feature=related

[willieH]

willieH: Hi Tim...  :happygrin:

So glad that GOD has chosen to lead you into the TRUTH of the Gospel brother!  :bgdance:

Well, I was raised in a Christian family so I always believed in, more or less, God and Jesus and Hell (ET/eternal conscious torment). Within the past year/years (maybe 2-3 years) however, I tried to understand the concept behind ET in my head. Why would God damn so many people to Hell, especially people I cared about, and my family (not my immediate family) and friends? I couldn't understand for the life of me. Sure, there was "answers" to my questions, but none of them made me feel better. One particular evening I REALLY, REALLY asked God about it. Basically I said/asked, "Now, I know about Hell, and the idea behind it, of it supposedly being justice and all, but I can't, for the life of me, see how it's fair! If it's fair, or if it's not fair, I'd really like to have your input on it. Whatever the answer, whether Hell is what I think it is, or isn't, please guide me to the truth!" So, interestingly enough, while surfing an Intelligent Design blog I ran across a fellow believer who, rather than believing in ET, believed in annihilation. Interested I asked him about WHY he believed in annihilation what backed up his beliefs in such a Hell. He gave me his evidence, which he stated was mainly the Bible (and it was), and after further researching I felt like this must be a confirmation from God that what I believed was Hell (that it is ET) was not true, let alone biblical. This gave me a bit more peace, in my mind, as to the fate of the lost. I held on to this idea for several months, yet, I STILL couldn't wrap my head around it. I was still stuck thinkin', "What about all the people I care about? What about the "good" people out there that never come to know you? Will they just be destroyed and I won't ever be able to see them again?" My sister entertained ideas of Christian Universalism, as well as did my mother. And although my mother tended to side with my views on annihilation, I believe my sister continued to entertain the idea of UR (and funny thing is, she's only 13!!). So UR wasn't, at this point in my life, a completely foreign idea to me. Then, one day I remember talking to one of my parents' friends about God and what I thought about Hell (aka believing it to now be annihilation), and I was, because of my research, beginning to ponder the idea of certain non-believers becoming saved despite not knowing Christ within their Earthly life (which I felt was possibly backed up in some specific verse in Romans). I remember saying, "I just don't think I can look at God the way I used to." And still the thought of losing my friends continued to haunt my thoughts, and so, finally decided, "What the heck!" and I looked up Christian Universalism, expecting it to be full of wishful thinking and unbiblical. But, as it turns out, I was completely wrong. (Among the sites that proved me wrong was this site!) Once I realized that many early Christians believed in UR; that Paul (the apostle) seemed to support the idea of UR; and most importantly, that aionion wasn't "eternal" and that "Hell" wasn't actually in the scriptures, but rather sheol, Hades, gehenna and Tarturus. Being a very deep thinking man, and always wanting to back up my beliefs with "evidence" I felt like I could finally rest at peace knowing that God was really going to save ALL MEN, including those I cared about, and I didn't even have to fear him myself (as believers so often do), and I had proof to back it up! Plus, to say the very least, it felt right with m conscious. How many ETers deny their consciouses to uphold a doctrine that just must be true!

Now basically my entire family believes in UR. My sister got excited once I realized that there was support for her views, my mom totally agrees with the basics behind UR (that all will be saved), my dad is really leaning towards UR, but my brother, unfortunately, still holds to ET/eternal conscious torment. On another note: two parents that are my parent's friends also seem to be really leaning towards/agree with UR. Their daughter said that my thoughts on religion (UR and such) are the closest to hers of anybody she's ever known. Their son seems to have his own thoughts on religion (he believes in God, but not Hell, but I'm not really sure what else). So a lot of blessings have come through God leading me to UR!!  :bigGrin:

So, thinking back over my life I probably believed in ET for roughly 10 years, annihilation for five-ish months, and UR for just the past month or two. But it's been a glorious two months!!  :bigGrin:

And that's more or less my testimony as of now. lol

Thanks for your testimony and journey...  It is always interesting to hear how God is leading another down his/her life-trail, to the TRUTH... 

One of the big problems with HELL is that if it is truly ETERNAL, than it is an ALWAYS "IS" thing... which does not work. 

The Eternal has no beginning or end, so if HELL were to be true, then those "in it" have always BEEN in Hell -- ARE in Hell, and ALWAYS WILL BE in Hell...  :wacko2:

Most Christian observe ETERNAL as a "from NOW (this point in time) ---> ON -- scenario... which is NOT how ETERNITY ...IS...  Eternity has no such "beginning" point... and then is found to be "END-LESS"... It is "BEGINNING-LESS" as well...

It preceeded TIME and shall exceed it... for it ALWAYS IS... whereas TIME has both a  beginning (first day) and an end (last day)...  :dontknow:

GOD is LOGICAL for He calls us IN HIS WORD, to REASON with Him, which also states that we are capable of LOGICALLY dealing with Him as well -- Isaiah 1:18

Not only that, REASON is DEMANDED by this invitation... If something is UNREASONABLE... than it is therefore, suspect. 

Any Biblical conclusions must include REASON as part of that conclusion, or it is found OUTSIDE this invitation of GOD to us...

HELL is UNREASONABLE...  It does not match up REASONABLY with:

(1) Good news -- the Gospel -- Rom 10:15 -- Eph 6:15
(2) Love -- 1 Cor 13 -- 1 John 4:18
(3) Forgiveness of enemies -- Luke 6:27-38 -- Matt 5:44-48
(4) Peace -- Col 1:20
(5) the passing of PAIN -- Rev 21:4

Another thing that catches the teaching of HELL in its own lie... is that GOD knew beforehand that "this or that person" would end up there (hell), yet brought this person forth regardless, then speaks of Himself as "JUST" to CONDEMN them to HELL, when HE could've prevented that CONDEMNATION by opting to pass on Creating them...  This is UNREASONABLE...

EXAMPLE:  I cannot put a GUN in a child's hand, then when he kills someone with the gun, ...be JUSTIFIED in CONDEMNING the child for killing that person... For I am ATTACHED and PIVOTALLY INVOLVED in the incident.  Which would have NEVER taken place, had ...I... not exercised BAD JUDGMENT by placing the gun in the possession of the child... KNOWING beforehand, the SEVERE potentials that could occur by that act (giving him the gun).

JESUS [the WORD] was sent NOT to CONDEMN -- John 3:17 -- and the WORD [JESUS] shall be our JUDGE -- John 12:48

So if PART of the mission of the WORD is to NOT CONDEMN, how shall it CONDEMN when it JUDGES?

The TRUTH is there is NO CONDEMNATION in CHRIST... and as ALL DIE in ADAM, so shall ALL LIVE ...IN... CHRIST -- 1 Cor 15:22

PEACE... :Peace:

...willieH   :winkgrin:

[claypot]

I just wrote this to a friend who is strong on trying not to displease God in His life and actions. We have talked much on this and then I felt I had an almost audible conversation with this friend while I was alone. It went like this........

God created me thorugh no choice of my own and put me in this (and I used a vulgar term.....s----hole...death, darkness, blindness.....) and then tells me to be good or I will displease Him. Forgive my callousness but trying to avoid hurting His feelings is not high on my list, surviving this mess is. I did not ask to be born and did not create this mess. Forgive my insensitivity to the One who may be offended by my lack of adoration, I suppose He can make sure I am tortured even more because of it, but I want to be honest here. He can either take me as I am, rude, crude and honest, or He will have to throw me to a place of even more torments. His choice! I want to serve Him and, yes, please Him (why, I'm not sure but the 'want to' is there) but I'm not going to cry over some failures of my own while trying. He should be happy I'm not worse than I am!


I thought this thread was appropriate for this.

cp

[Paul Hazelwood]

I just wrote this to a friend who is strong on trying not to displease God in His life and actions. We have talked much on this and then I felt I had an almost audible conversation with this friend while I was alone. It went like this........

God created me thorugh no choice of my own and put me in this (and I used a vulgar term.....s----hole...death, darkness, blindness.....) and then tells me to be good or I will displease Him. Forgive my callousness but trying to avoid hurting His feelings is not high on my list, surviving this mess is. I did not ask to be born and did not create this mess. Forgive my insensitivity to the One who may be offended by my lack of adoration, I suppose He can make sure I am tortured even more because of it, but I want to be honest here. He can either take me as I am, rude, crude and honest, or He will have to throw me to a place of even more torments. His choice! I want to serve Him and, yes, please Him (why, I'm not sure but the 'want to' is there) but I'm not going to cry over some failures of my own while trying. He should be happy I'm not worse than I am!


I thought this thread was appropriate for this.

cp

Thats a great letter.

[trettep]

I see this come up constantly:  We all deserve Hell, no one deserves Heaven, its only by God's mercy that we don't all go to hell.

Where is the scripture that supports this idea of "everyone deserving hell"?

Scriptures showing we all deserve death would be useful as well.

Thanks,
Legoman

Well, I believe differently than others here so I will give my perspective.  As all in the body of Christ will be saved, I also believe that all in the body of Adam have been condemned.  I believe that everyone born of Adam's descendancy (male line) have received the punishment due to a JUDGEMENT pronounced upon Adam.  The only way in which I see that judgement to not apply to someone is if they were born of a virgin.  So that means we all have received that condemnation (Christ excluded of course). 

Paul

[WhiteWings]

The only way in which I see that judgement to not apply to someone is if they were born of a virgin.

I can't believe God judgement can be bypassed by some medical 'trick' in hospital.

What of those that are created? (Adam, Eve)

So that means we all have received that condemnation (Christ excluded of course). 

I wonder if Christ was excluded. He was the first one that managed to be without sins when He died.
By lack of better words: Perhaps He earned it to be excluded from judgement? Just as Adam 'earned' judgement.

[WhiteWings]

Want to add that IMO judgement is  hollow word. A word that you have to fill yourself. With sins. Yep, another weird look at things  :winkgrin:
I read/understand it as "All who have sinned will be judged."
I know there are verses/passages implying all have sinned. When people are a little older that certainly is true.
But what about the baby that died shortly after birth? In what way did s/he sin?
Surely God didn't overlook that little fact. So we are the ones overlooking a vital verse?

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: There's an age of accountability; and also, you're accountable for what you know. Blessings...

[WhiteWings]

you're accountable for what you know.

Great. I'm of the hook :thumbsup:

Anyway that sorta debunks that sin passes on at birth I think....
Sin isn't inherited but you do it yourself.

[trettep]

The only way in which I see that judgement to not apply to someone is if they were born of a virgin.

I can't believe God judgement can be bypassed by some medical 'trick' in hospital.

What of those that are created? (Adam, Eve)

So that means we all have received that condemnation (Christ excluded of course). 

I wonder if Christ was excluded. He was the first one that managed to be without sins when He died.
By lack of better words: Perhaps He earned it to be excluded from judgement? Just as Adam 'earned' judgement.

Being born of the virgin Mary was not a medical trick.  I'm not sure of the motive of your response.  Please clarify.  But I will restate that we are all under the condemnation:

Rom 5:14  Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

We are all under the condemnation.  Even before Moses brought the law (before the law), death reigned.  How can that be?  Think about what these verses in Romans are telling us.  It can't be because these others sinned because there was no law.  Where there is no law there is no sin.

Rom 5:13  (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

So these people died and not because of the law.  The reason is because they are under the condemantion that was pronounced upon Adam:

Rom 5:15  But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

You see, the scriptures here are showing that it isn't because we sin that we die (though the wages of sin is death) but it is because of the sin incurred by Adam that we die.  But when the Law did come we are even MORE worthy of death. 

So even if Moses never brought us the law at all - death would still be our condemnation. 

Rom 5:18  Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Notice, it doesn't matter what anyone does - or how pure they live their life, if they are born of Adam they are WORTHY of death.  This is why a savior could not come from Adam's seed.

It is Adam's offense that has caused us to ALL be worthy of death:

Rom 5:19  For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

The law came to make the offence more Worthy.

Rom 5:20  Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

Since Christ was not born of Adam's seed, He was not under the penalty of Death.  However, since the law entered after the condemnation, Jesus would have to be pure in order to not incurr the penalty of Death.  So Jesus still had to overcome.

Jesus didn't merit Worthiness to be held in death:

Act 2:24  Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.


Paul 

[WhiteWings]

I can't believe God judgement can be bypassed by some medical 'trick' in hospital.

Being born of the virgin Mary was not a medical trick.  I'm not sure of the motive of your response.  Please clarify. 

I'm not speaking about Jesus. I was meaning that it might be possible for medicial science, in 2009, to get a virgin pregnant. With a syringe for example. How, why, when isn't really of importance. I mean that even if someone is born of a virgin that doesn't automaticly mean it's a good person.

My reponse was because you wrote:

The only way in which I see that judgement to not apply to someone is if they were born of a virgin.

And I replied saying that I don't believe it's so easy to escape judgement.
That's all...