soul destroyed in Gehenna

[Abigail]

Matthew 10:28 has already been discussed in earlier times, yet what is not fully clear to me yet:

It says 'rather be afraid of Him who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna', yet I wonder whether 'Him' should be with a capital. Is this scripture speaking about God? In the Concordant a neutral word is used (though singular, where earlier in the verse the same word is used plural).

Furthermore, if this is about God, this would probably mean something like leaving people over to their sin and the consequences there of. Why does it use the word Gehenna, the garbagedump?

I would love to know your thoughts.

[Abigail]

I just looked up a parallel scripture in Luke 12. Again, the same neutral word (ton).
Yet here it says not destroy body and soul, but: after killing, has power to hurl into Gehenna.

If you would take this scripture very literally, it would just say: some people can only kill you, some have authority to throw you on the garbage dump instead of giving you a decent funeral. Yet if it would be explained that way, I don't understand what's the point (why Jesus is warning people for this).

[Tom]

I think Jesus is warning the Jews about this because it was considered to be a dishonorable death without a proper burial to have your dead body cast into "Gehenna" to be burned with the garbage of Jerusalem. The important thing is to know that Jesus was talking about "Gehenna" not "hell" like the King James wants you to believe twelve times where it has been intentionally mistranslated.

[Tom]

Man can destroy the body, but who else but God could destroy the soul?

[sheila]

 you have to remember who He was speaking to. the elders,jewish leaders/preisthood class..of to whom the promises belonged......

......the glory of Israel in relationship to God was involved. they would/could find themselves in a shameful situation instead of

partaking of God's glory.

      my  :2c:

[Seth]

Matthew 10:28 has already been discussed in earlier times, yet what is not fully clear to me yet:

It says 'rather be afraid of Him who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna', yet I wonder whether 'Him' should be with a capital. Is this scripture speaking about God? In the Concordant a neutral word is used (though singular, where earlier in the verse the same word is used plural).

Furthermore, if this is about God, this would probably mean something like leaving people over to their sin and the consequences there of. Why does it use the word Gehenna, the garbagedump?

I would love to know your thoughts.

As far as I know, Gehenna was not a garbage dump, or at least there's no empirical evidence it was. I think the reason he refers to is scriptural. I think the fire is associated with idolatry, specifically in Jeremiah, that which was used to honor the gods by sacrificing children to them. I do believe it is about leaving them to their sin which God does compare to fire often in the Bible.

[Seth]

BTW, in Matt 10, he is speaking to his disciples.

[Tom]

http://concordant.org/expohtml/DeathAndJudgment/TheGehennaOfFire.html

[Seth]

Folks are catching on to the fact that gehenna was not a garbage dump, or that at least there's no evidence for that

http://blog.bibleplaces.com/2011/04/myth-of-burning-garbage-dump-of-gehenna.html?m=1

[Tom]

I think what's been said about Moloch worship there could be dismissed too by saying there's no "evidence." I guess it depends on what you mean by "evidence." I think history in general has to be taken with a grain of salt, but, as usual, I have a literal interpretation of "Gehenna" while I know you have a figurative interpretation, bro. I don't think it's accurate to say, "Folks are catching on to the fact that gehenna was not a garbage dump." I don't see how you can say that's a "fact" just because some blog says so. Everything about "Gehenna" in the past is open to speculation and interpretation, but the "fact" is that "Gehenna" is a real place now, not just some figurative interpretation of "hell."

http://what-the-hell-is-hell.com/topics/hellphotos/

[Seth]

That Gehenna is a real place is not disputed. That it was a garbage dump in Christ's day is disputed.

[Tom]

That may be, and that it's a figurative interpretation of hell is also disputed. But it's not a "fact that gehenna was not a garbage dump."

[Seth]

Ok, I'll revise it. Folks are catching on that the idea that Gehenna was a garbage dump for the burning of criminals in Christ's day is not established by facts or evidence.

[Tom]

Nobody said "it was a garbage dump in Christ's day" anyway.

[Seth]

I've heard that it was many times in UR discussions Tom. I used to believe it myself based on all the UR articles I had read,

[Tom]

I meant in our discussion, bro. I've just read that it was used to burn the corpses of executed criminals as well as the carcasses of sacrificed animals and the city refuse in the past, and that it will be used to burn the corpses of executed criminals again in the coming eon which is what I think Isaiah 66:23,24 refers to. But, like I said, that's all speculation and interpretation just like the claim that it wasn't used to burn the corpses of executed criminals, sacrificial animal carcasses, and the city trash of Jerusalem in the past sometime but not specifically in Christ's time. I believe Christ is warning about the possibility of somebody suffering the same dishonorable fate of having his corpse burned in "Gehenna" in the next eon, and the Jews must have been familiar with the practice for it to affect their behavior which I think is why Christ mentioned it.

[Seth]

I meant in our discussion, bro. I've just read that it was used to burn the corpses of executed criminals as well as the carcasses of sacrificed animals and the city refuse in the past, and that it will be used to burn the corpses of executed criminals again in the coming eon which is what I think Isaiah 66:23,24 refers to. But, like I said, that's all speculation and interpretation just like the claim that it wasn't used to burn the corpses of executed criminals, sacrificial animal carcasses, and the city trash of Jerusalem in the past sometime but not specifically in Christ's time.

I believe I revised my statement about that, right? And I wasn't claiming that YOU believed it. I think you are being a bit defensive about this. I am not making any claims about what YOU believe.  :HeartThrob:

[Tom]

I don't think it's worth staying up and arguing about, bro, because I'm ready to crash. If you want to believe they didn't burn anything in "Gehenna," that's all right with me. I'm still trying to get over this virus. So I'm going to try to get some rest now. If you have something else to say, I'll check it out tomorrow.

[Seth]

BTW, what I had said was: "Folks are catching on to the fact that gehenna was not a garbage dump, or that at least there's no evidence for that"

[Tom]

Right, but it ain't a "fact." Good night.

[Seth]

I don't think it's worth staying up and arguing about, bro, because I'm ready to crash. If you want to believe they didn't burn anything in "Gehenna," that's all right with me. I'm still trying to get over this virus. So I'm going to try to get some rest now. If you have something else to say, I'll check it out tomorrow.

I didn't say they didn't burn anything in Gehenna. Jeremiah is pretty clear that they did, their own children.

[Seth]

Right, but it ain't a "fact." Good night.

How do you know it aint a fact that it was never a garbage dump? It could be a fact either way, we just don't know. But all I am saying is that we probably shouldn't talk about it as a fact if we don't have any evidence. Is that so wrong?

[sheila]

 I had this scripture in mind...Mt 23;33 you snakes you brood of vipers!. How will you escape being condemned to hell.

  NIV has hell cross-referenced as Gehenna. Doesn't it seem strange that God whom it never entered His heart to burn his children

  would speak of hell and the fires of Gehenna..unto the 'generation' of vipers and snakes? That convinces me that Jesus was directly

addressing the evil contrast/spirit tool on those men...and not the men themselves.


   men mistakenly judge other prodigal sons of God into the LOF judgement prepared for the devil and his....

  the same judgement they judged[burn the sons of Israel in the fire] is the same judgement they receive........the tormentors of

man....expirience torment[did you come to torment us before the appointed time?"]


   For I will not always find fault,for then the very spirit[love] would fail..........nothing quenches the spirit/kills love quicker

then constant faultfinding[love covers a multitude of sins/keeps no record of the offense...]..Accusor thrown out of heaven.

...and so we receive the kingdom of the love of His son..whose better covenant states He is not counting our trespasses against us...

  and we must forgive also..all those who have trespassed against us[reconciliation] a repentant heart that does not want to be

   adversarial unto the Father..that desires to make/accept peace..with God and all men..and grow in love/relationship


   of what benefit is it unto a man to gain the whole world but lose his soul[bow down and do one act of worship unto me...and I will

  give you all the kingdoms of the earth,for they are mine[man of sin/son of perdition revealed] to give. satan entered Judas..and

made a son of perdition..satan entered the serpent and become the original serpent..satan entered the disobedient angels in the heavens

and become a dragon in the heavens.[transforming themselves as angels of light to decieve].satan entered the beasts..and the

liar/mankiller nature come forth. satan entered man..and he become the sinning man[know evil=joined as one with evil] abomination

in the temple[man's body] For God made man for His spirit to dwell in

  NOW my kingdom is not from this source..or otherwise my men would have fought that I not be delivered unto you.


   the 'Prince' of this world is judged...that his works are wicked..but ye are no part of the world..if ye were the world would love you

  satan gained the whole world[decieved the entire inhabited earth] but has lost his soul...the soul that is sinning will die.

   what will a man give in exchange for his soul?

  for the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double edged sword, IT PENETRATES TO DIVIDING SOUL AND SPIRIT

  JOINTS AND MARROW; IT JUDGES THE THOUGHTS AND ATTITUDES OF THE HEART

[JonesHenry]

A frightening thought and a topic i deal with every day "teaching" christian universalism on the internet!



Yes, God CAN simply ANNIALATE you!



Snap! There it's done! No problem for the CREATOR of souls!

(http://www.massagemag.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011_08_myofascialhandsnap0811.jpg)




But this is NOT what God WANTS!



"I am GOD, there is no other, I am GOD, and there is NO ONE LIKE ME; I reveal the end from the beginning, from ANCIENT TIMES I reveal what is to be: I say, "My PURPOSE shall take effect, I will ACCOMPLISH all that I PLEASE!"

Isaiah 46:9-10



Oh but he has to because "free will"



WHERE again that i hear that "free will" thing in either Hebrew or Greek...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9c_KttvQPU



Hmm...



Lets see where the book of revelation ends.


"Behold, I come quickly. My reward is with me, to repay to each man according to his work. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who do his commandments,† that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter in by the gates into the city.  OUTSIDE ARE THE dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. I, JESUS have sent my angel to testify these things to you for the assemblies. I am the root and the offspring of David; the Bright and Morning Star." "


Book of Revelation chapter 22 verses 12-16



You know, when the LORD JESUS says so, we can take HIM for hes WORD!



"Oh there just there waiting to be ahnialated."



The hebrew word for soul is Nefesh Meaning "animated object"

http://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/8921/nefesh-neshama-and-ruach-as-words-for-soul



In Hebrew culture the DEAD SLEEP waiting for the day of JUDGMENT!

"At that time Michael will stand up, the great prince who stands for the children of your people; and there will be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time. At that time your people will be delivered, everyone who is found written in the book. Many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth will AWAKE, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting CONTEMPT. Those who are wise will shine as the brightness of the expanse. Those who turn many to righteousness will shine as the stars forever and ever. But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end. Many will run back and forth, and knowledge will be increased."

Book of Daniel chapter 12 verses 1-4



In Hebrew culture you are either DEAD & ALIVE!



No "in betweens" here! You want that..go to Egypt and there Greek copycat "philosophers"

http://discoveringegypt.com/ancient-egyptian-gods-and-goddesses



If there in the lake of fire that means they are still alive...undergoing Kolasis Aionios = Age lasting CORRECTION!



Or basanizo = HORRIBLY PAINFUL purification!

http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/kjv/basanizo.html



Thats what the BIBLE says! But hey...who actually needs that badly translated peace of toilet paper!? And who needs Jesus anyway? We have our ancient pagan belief system from Sumer to Egypt and all the way to Rome + Greek...and OFCOURSE the Scandinavian-Germanic HELL!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00_o1arKeIA


Who needs the bible? Just keep those people coming to church and most of all...keep the MONEY coming IN!


(http://www.moneywisepastor.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Love-of-Money-pic.jpg)


When MONEY talks, bullcrap walks :mock:

[rosered]

I want to thank you  for bringing this  out Seth  and Tom and Sheila

   I  just assumed   by the   many articles written      that Gehenna   was both    ''places ''  of   torment   


What ever  Jesus is meaning by   His  testimony in Matthew 10    it is about ,   How man has  twisted the scriptures    again  and again over the  ignorance of NOT Knowing what pleases   the true and Living God  for centuries .

Being    the  slaughter  of the innocent   to   appease      an angry god who needs sacrifice  and blood to satisfy    him for   something you  have errored and trespassed in  to save yourself   at the innocents expense   , instead of not sinning  against    GOD in the first place    .

    Exposing the murder in men's hearts and in this tempting GOD and making Him angry  , when if you would just do whats right in the first place   there would be no need    sacrifice  for  sin , missing the mark  and being in error    .........

Jesus come to prove this over and over again   in His testimony    .He is the love manifested    by God  and the perfect sacrifice    to prove  that murder and lying   has never pleased Him 


  the SPIRIT OF TRUTH   is to teach us not to lie to God   and the  Lord Jesus Christ shows us   loving forgiveness   for wrong doing  is the way that leads to life

   We all have an evil nature   in us that we must deal with  ourselves     , we have to strive against sin , error and missing the mark to the shedding of our own blood , not the blood of others     Hebrews   12  speaks of this   very thing

shedding of your own  blood striving against sin  , not the blood of others       

  But go on  shedding the blood  of bulls and goats/carnal animal natures   it says in Hebrews    ,  but a Lambs blood is required because this is   the same Blood of Jesus Christ as it is written in the scriptures , sons of God    and you are the sheep to slaughter  all the day long   ..    this is love covering the multitude of sins  , missing the mark and  error  , trespass  against   GOD,    just   taking the wrong    and we can not ever do this having a carnal nature  it opposes    Gods Spirit , it is the Spirit of Christ in you that  can accept it and prove  us   , it really is taking up our cross and following Jesus .


4You have not yet resisted to the point of shedding blood in your striving against sin;

5and you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons,

"MY SON, DO NOT REGARD LIGHTLY THE DISCIPLINE OF THE LORD, NOR FAINT WHEN YOU ARE REPROVED BY HIM;...

Philippians 2:8
And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death-- even death on a cross!

Hebrews 10:32
Remember those earlier days after you had received the light, when you endured in a great conflict full of suffering.

Hebrews 10:33
Sometimes you were publicly exposed to insult and persecution; at other times you stood side by side with those who were so treated.

Hebrews 13:13
Let us, then, go to him outside the camp, bearing the disgrace he bore.

These scriptures  show my   own lack     in many times   I did not obey  :sigh:

  and other times learning to strive against sin , error and  trespass    as a sinner   saved by grace and not   increase  the sin and error    make it worse   instead of better   by forgiving and  asking the Lord in secret  please increase    so i will decrease  in needing justice   and showing mercy undeserving    , just as I got mercy undeserving ,, and loving one another as you have loved us  all .


  Jesus maybe was proving that even after all this time of God striving with mankind and being patient with us and loving   ,     they still do not  choose to do what is right in his sight         
  What else could he have done   that He already has   already done  for us ?

  He wiped them all out with  the water   of His anger ,  all flesh  and  started over again with a few   8  and    now , here we are again ...

When you look at the world  who was given everything  by God , even perfection of His own Son  ,     this will be  much  worse according to the scriptures

in judgment     than Sodom and Gomorrah  IF NOT FOR JESUS CHRIST    being the  righteous    judge  and loving us so  very  much