Hey WW (and all - but WW because we've been discussing different aspects of this translation for awhile, trying to contact them, etc.) - I found this new site online about TCB. I DON'T KNOW THE AUTHOR, AND THE ARTICLE APPEARS TO BE CONNECTED TO THE CHRISTIAN BIBLE SOCIETY - http://www.theexaminer.org/volume7/number6/best.htm and http://www.aboutus.org/ChristianBibleSociety.org
**This post is for those who understand and are OK with the fact that it costs money to produce a product, print it, mail it, have people to do those things, etc. If you're not interested, disagree with paying for a copy, etc., that's OK, but please respect those that are and don't hijack the thread with the "freely you receive, freely give" issue. That is noted, and perhaps has room for some interpretation in various situations and contexts. That's not why I started this thread. I really don't think anyone's making any money on this project - in fact, I believe they gave up much. If anyone knows anyone that wants a copy and is destitute and TRULY does not have the $25, ask the Christian Bible folks if they will help out. If there's truly, legitimately no other way (not just that someone chooses to not spend their money for it) let me know and I'll either buy one for them (obviously a limit - not planning to buy a hundred of them :bigGrin:) or help explore options. Thanks.
Quote from Molly - "Something happened at the end of the 19th century. Great advances were being made in science, technology, biology, in our understanding of the physical world--and now this, a true translation of God's word?
It doesn't surprise me. Everything was opening up and somebody shut it all down for a hundred years. But, now, we have another chance.
He is a God of redemption."
---------------------------------------------------------------------
WHICH BIBLE TRANSLATION IS BEST?
Alan Date
There are so many Bible translations; which one should a Christian use? Mark quotes from Isaiah and says this: " 'These people honor Me with their lips, yet their hearts are a distance away from Me. Now they are meaninglessly devoted to Me, teaching as teachings the directions of humans.' Having left God's Direction, you hold to the tradition of humans." - Mark 7:6-8 (CB).
If we use a Bible that is a paraphrase, we can't be sure that we are reading God's Word, rather than traditions of humans that have developed over the past 1800 some years. No, to make sure that we have an accurate translation of God's Word, we need a very literal translation! But how can we know which translation is the most literal and accurate? All of the following Bibles are said to be either literal or at least not paraphrases: KJV, NIV, NASB, NKJV, SEB, NCV, YLT, and CB.
For many years Christians who didn't know Greek had to depend on the opinions of "experts" to determine which New Testament translation was the most literal. But now there is a test that any Christian can give to a translation to determine how literal it is. All you need is a copy of this test, a KJV Bible, and the New Testament to be tested.
This test is called the "NEW Literal Translation Test." The only place (that I know of) where you can get a copy of this test is from the Christian Bible Society (their address is near the end of this article). The test can be obtained in one of two ways: it is in the Introduction to the Christian Bible, or a free copy of the test can be requested from them.
It takes about 3-4 hours to give a translation this 100 question test using the KJV as a guide. What the test does is check a translation against itself for consistency. If a Bible isn't consistent in these 100 ways, it can't be literal. Once a Bible gets an acceptable score on this test, then you can begin to have confidence that this Bible might be literal, and check it in some other ways of your own to determine if it is readable, understandable, and accurate (possibly with the use of a concordance).
I tested ten translations and their scores are given below; they are the King James Version (KJV), the New International Version (NIV), the New American Standard Bible (NASB), the Good News Bible/Today's English Version (TEV), the Living Bible/The Book (LB), the New King James Version/The Bible (NKJV), the New Century Version/The Word (NCV), the Simple English Bible (SEB), Young's Literal Translation of the Holy Bible (YLT), and the Christian Bible (CB).
Section 1 of the test checks ten simple Greek nouns. Each one of its ten questions gives you two places where a Greek noun exists in God's Word; and in each case the same English word could (and should) be used to translate the Greek noun in those two places. While it is true that there are some Greek words that have a greater meaning than can be expressed with only one English word, this is not the case with these ten simple Greek nouns. Using only one English word in each of these ten cases is the only proper, accurate, and literal thing to do. The results for this section are: KJV = 20%, NIV = 20%, NASB = 30%, TEV = 20%, LB = 10%, NKJV = 60%, NCV = 40%, SEB = 50%, YLT = 60%, CB = 100%.
Section 2 checks ten simple Greek verbs. Similar to the noun check, here each one of the ten questions gives you two places where a Greek verb exists in God's Word; and in each case the same English word could (and should) be used to translate the Greek verb in those two places. Even a paraphrased Bible could have gotten the nouns right, but now with the verbs we will really start separating the paraphrased translations from the literal ones. The results for this section are: KJV = 10%, NIV = 10%, NASB = 20%, TEV = 0%, LB = 0%, NKJV = 10°/o, NCV = 0%, SEB = 20%, YLT = 40%, CB = 100%.
Section 3 checks ten simple Greek words that are either adjectives or adverbs. Once again, both places in each of the ten questions could (and should) be translated with the same English word. This section of the test is so easy. If a translation can't answer these ten easy questions correctly, how can we possibly trust it? The results for this section are: KJV = 20%, NIV = 20%, NASB = 30%, TEV = 10%, LB = 10%, NKJV = 30%, NCV = 20%, SEB = 30%, YLT = 50°/o, CB = 100°/o.
Section 4 checks ten simple Greek words which occur only twice in the Greek New Testament, and each can be accurately translated with only one English word. Since each Greek word is only used twice in the whole New Testament, surely they will all get this right! The results for this section are: KJV = 10%, NIV = 30%, NASB = 30%, TEV = 10%, LB = 0%, NKJV = 30%, NCV = 20%, SEB = 20%, YLT = 30%, CB = 100%.
Section 5 does ten same book comparisons. Now we are going to check ten simple Greek words each of which are used at least twice in the same Bible book, and each could be accurately translated with only one English word. Many Bibles are translated by committees; such that one group translates one book, while another group translates another book. The previous sections put them at a disadvantage, because they required the translation to be consistent throughout the whole New Testament. But now we are going to give the "Committee Bibles" a break. The results for this section are: KJV = 10%, NIV = 20%, NASB = 40%, TEV = 20%, LB = 20%, NKJV = 30%, NCV = 30%, SEB = 50%, YLT = 50%, CB = 100%.
Section 6 checks ten ecclesiastical words. Now we are going to check ten Koine (everyday) Greek words which are sometimes replaced with religious mumbo jumbo that distorts the original meaning. The results for this section are: KJV = 0%, NIV = 10%, NASB = 20%, TEV = 20%, LB = 20%, NKJV = 10%, NCV = 20%, SEB = 40%, YLT = 80%, CB = 100%.
Section 7 checks the tense consistency of ten Greek verbs. We are now going to check ten Greek verbs in places where each in its two examples uses exactly the same Greek tense. The test lets them be nonliteral and use different verbs, and scores them wrong only if they use two different verb tenses! While it is true that in some cases a Greek verb tense can cover the meaning of what is two different tenses in English, sloppy use of verb tenses can distort the original meaning and is not literal. The results for this section are: KJV = 10%, NIV = 20%, NASB = 20%, TEV = 10%, LB = 30%, NKJV = 20%, NCV = 60%, SEB = 50%, YLT = 60%, CB = 100%.
Section 8 checks related word forms. Thankfully, God provided that the New Testament should be recorded in Koine Greek, one of the most logical of all human languages. To simplify this subject, let me say that most Koine Greek words belong to one or more word families, such that different word forms (noun, verb, adjective, and adverb) have the same root spelling and related meanings. Because of this, the KJV Bible is able to show this relationship to English readers for the Greek root ALETH by properly and literally translating the noun ALETHEIA as "truth," the related verb ALETHEUO as "be truthful," the related adjective ALETHES as "true," and the related adverb ALETHOS as "truly." Now we are going to check ten sets of Greek words where a literal translation could show the English reader this Greek relationship between the two (noun to verb, adjective to adverb, verb to adverb, etc.). The results for this section are: KJV = 10%, NIV = 10%, NASB = 20%, TEV = 0%, LB = 0%, NKJV = 10%, NCV = 0%, SEB = 20%, YLT = 30%, CB = 100%.
Section 9 checks to see if one English word is used for two unrelated Greek words. Now the test makes us do something different, as we are now looking for ten mismatches, because in each pair of places the underlying Greek words may be synonyms, but are different and unrelated. While there are times when a suitable, unique English word can't be found for each Greek word, such that the same English word must be used for two Greek words, it is still a clear sign of sloppy translating if this happens very often. To correctly answer each of these test questions, there must be English words for both indicated Greek words, but they must be different from each other, and yet since the Greek words are, at least, loose synonyms, the English words must be similar enough so that each could replace the other in its sentence with the sentence still making some sense. The results for this section are: KJV = 10%, NIV = 10%, NASB = 10%, TEV = 0%, LB = 20%, NKJV = 0%, NCV = 40%, SEB = 20%, YLT = 60%, CB = 100%.
Section 10 checks similar verses in different books. Now we are going to check ten sets of verses in Matthew, Mark, and Luke that contain sentences that are either very similar or exactly the same in the Greek. If the sentences of the paired verses are exactly the same in the Greek, they must be exactly the same in the English; but if they are slightly different, the English must also be slightly different in a similar way. The results for this section are: KJV = 10%, NIV = 30%, NASB = 20%, TEV = 10%, LB = 0%, NKJV = 10%, NCV = 0%, SEB = 10%, YLT = 40%, CB = 100%.
....the translation that got the second best score (Young's Literal Translation - 50%) was translated over a century ago in 1887!
Is it any wonder that only one Bible publisher wants you to know about this literal translation test? The other Bible publishers would rather keep you in the dark about how unliteral their translations are! You should also know that the Christian Bible was translated before its publishers became aware of this test, so it wasn't that they were able to translate it extremely well on just the areas of these 100 questions, so that it might get a 100% on the test!
The Christian Bible scored 809% better than the King James Version (KJV) and the Living Bible (LB), 900% better than the Good News Bible (TEV), 455% better than the New International Version (NIV), 376% better than the New King James Version (NKJV), 335% better than the New Century Version (NCV), 316% better than the New American Standard Bible (NASB), 223% better than the Simple English Bible (SEB), and 100% better than Young's Literal Translation (YLT).
I know of no other NT translation that took 16 years to develop, like the Christian Bible did. Now you know why it took so long! It is the only one literal enough to score 100%.
As far as I know, only one of these ten translations was done following a scientific, logical method of translating -- the Christian Bible! This is the Bible that was recommended in the September issue of The Examiner.
This 480 page New Testament in a sturdy, gold, hard cover can be purchased for $20.00 with no tax or shipping charge. Its 704 page Companion Reference Guide (which includes an exhaustive concordance) is $25.00, or you can order both together for only $39.00. To order just send your check, cash, or money order to: Christian Bible Society, P. O. Box 530, Mammoth Spring, AR 72554. - END QUOTE
of the pagans are like masters over them, and their great ones coerce them. Yet it is never to be like this among you; rather, whoever wants to become great among you, must continually
be your servant; and whoever wants to be first among you, must continually be the slave of all" — Mark 10:42-44 (CB)
Yes!
jabcat, does this Christian Bible have the books in the right order?
CHB
C, they are in the "usual" order...don't know any of their rationale on that one...I will post a passage of scripture as another example of the translation though in a couple of minutes...
As far as the order, might be a good question to ask them their thoughts on that :thumbsup:
Now God's Word kept growing [spreading], and the number of the students kept multiplying tremendously in Jerusalem. In addition, a great crowd of the priests were obeying the Faith. Acts 6:7
Now when He was intending to pass through Achaia [S. Greece], the brothers and sisters promoted the idea and wrote to the students to welcome him; and when he had come along, he huddled together often with those who had believed through favor; for he kept vigourously and thoroughly refuting the Jews in public, showing through the Writing that Yesu is the Anointed One. Acts 18:27,28
Then after that I went into the regions of Syria and Cilicia [S.E. Turkey]. Yet the groups of Called Ones in Judea that are in union with the Anointed One still didn't know me personally; yet they kept hearing only that "The person was once persecuting us, is now spreading the Good Message about the Faith upon which he once kept bringing savage destruction." Galatians 1:22,23
Yet the groups of Called Ones in Judea that are in union with the Anointed One ..
I just love that phrasing. It shows the depth of the word, ekklesia.
Do you own this Bible, Jab?
G1577
ἐκκλησία
ekklēsia
ek-klay-see'-ah
From a compound of G1537 and a derivative of G2564; a calling out, that is, (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both): - assembly, church.
Hi Molly. Yes I do. I read that particular version pretty much daily. It reads extremely well, and appears highly accurate. The only others I know that has it is jfraysee who bought one and really enjoyed it, and I think it may be WhiteWing's favorite version. With English not being his primary language, it also reads well for him...very easy to understand, yet true to the Koine/everyday language Greek - yet they didn't sacrifice accuracy for readability.
jfraysee: If you read this, would you say CB has slight annihilation undertone?
Quote from: jabcat on March 10, 2010, 05:36:47 AMWith English not being his primary language, it also reads well for him...very easy to understand, yet true to the Koine/everyday language Greek
My thoughts on CB likely are not valid for most on this forum. Most of you spend half you life with a KJV. I jumped right into UR and versions like KJV look to full of 'mistakes' to be taken seriously. (many reasons for that)
So when I read the KJV long list of word meanings zap through my head that constantly reference to "eternal=age", "hell=grave". Then in the end all I did is make a 'perfect' translation in my head never did really read the verse itself.
I know the way I speak about the KJV hurts several people on this forum. I gave many reasons for my opinion and this time I want to add that Bible study is (also) about getting rid of character flaws. But imo that also goes for the book/tool we use for that study.
YLT is another fav of me. It uses the right words. So the 'KJV problems' are gone.
It's grammer structure is a hybrid between English and Dutch. So usually it reads fine for me. But with some verses it still has problems. The flow isn't there and to understand you have to change the word order slightly. But sometimes a word fits in two places, giving a whole differnt meanings to the verse.
CB reads KJV-style like a book. Accuracy of YLT. Plus it's 100 years more recent. In that century scholars have learned much more about Koine Greek. So my guess is the accuracy improved over YLT.
I grew up a big fan of old english lit. Studied it in college. Read it for enjoyment. The KJV was like butter to me when I began to read the Word. I still love the style of the prose, but I will tell you, it is such terrible translation. There are so many important words, even beyond sheol and aion, that were translated with absolutely no consistency whatsoever. In my opinion it is one of the worst. In addition, no matter what people read today, be it NASB, NIV, NKJV, YLT, CB- so much current theology was developed from the KJV- its what people know, whether they know it or not. The NASB and NIV are not really much better. Sometimes I feel like I am picking through the rubbish heap for the treasure, and I check everything in the interlinears, dictionaries and lexicons. I look forward to checking out The Christian Bible.... I don't think I ever heard of it before.
I scanned 6 random pages:
.pdf format: 315 KB Download (https://rcpt.yousendit.com/833255162/06ab836d9d3e3e51547007696269cd8d)
Seperate picture: 440 KB Download (https://rcpt.yousendit.com/833256830/16ae1511c61cf3bc4bca2fa7520f7f78)
Both are exactly the same pages.
Hi Eaglesway,
Did you ever read the Bullinger/Compabion Bible.
It's KJV plus... well just look here (http://www.companionbiblecondensed.com/)
QuoteIn addition, no matter what people read today, be it NASB, NIV, NKJV, YLT, CB- so much current theology was developed from the KJV- its what people know, whether they know it or not.
Plus KJV is a measuring stick for quality. I'm sure you have read many Bible review articles that basicly bash every word that's not the same as in the old KJV. There is problem is critical reviewing new translations. But with the much expanded knowledge on Koine Greek it becomes a bit like trashing every science book that claims the earth isn't flat.
Eaglesway did you ever read Green's translation? I'm still looking for a OT Bible. I tried YLT but I couldn't find a decent printed version. I also bought the printed Bullinger Bible. It's extremely bad print. They saved 50% on the ink :sigh:
QuoteI look forward to checking out The Christian Bible.... I don't think I ever heard of it before.
It's a collectors item. They spend years translating it. Then printed it. Setup a website with a broken e-mail adress.
Then after a while their site is gone. Jabcat ordered the CB for me. No responce and suddenly they send him a copy (without asking for payment). They describe themselfs as simple people. They surely have a good set of brains so it's their lifestyle I guess. Fine, not all are full of greed. But why not spread the Bible they made as a tribute to God?
I just had a vision of Jabcat becoming the main distributor of CB :Book:
Quote from: jabcat on March 09, 2010, 09:46:38 PM
Hey WW (and all - but WW because we've been discussing different aspects of this translation for awhile, trying to contact them, etc.) - I found this new site online about TCB. I DON'T KNOW THE AUTHOR, AND THE ARTICLE APPEARS TO BE CONNECTED TO THE CHRISTIAN BIBLE SOCIETY - http://www.aboutus.org/ChristianBibleSociety.org
I think I mailed you that link a few months ago.
If you surf to their website adres you will end up on the site of a Russian dog club... :winkgrin:
http://www.christianbiblesociety.org/
Quote from: WhiteWings on March 10, 2010, 08:21:44 AM
jfraysee: If you read this, would you say CB has slight annihilation undertone?
As you and I have discussed by PM Tony, I keep thinking maybe they just translated it "as the chips fall", without any particular stressed POV - so it ends up as "destruction". So as we've discussed, that could just mean destruction of all that's not of Christ, the wood, hay, stubble, etc. - the works of the flesh and impurities - not the destruction of individuals. Maybe we could ask them - might take a while to get an answer though :sigh:.
Quote from: WhiteWings on March 10, 2010, 11:24:44 AM
Quote from: jabcat on March 09, 2010, 09:46:38 PM
Hey WW (and all - but WW because we've been discussing different aspects of this translation for awhile, trying to contact them, etc.) - I found this new site online about TCB. I DON'T KNOW THE AUTHOR, AND THE ARTICLE APPEARS TO BE CONNECTED TO THE CHRISTIAN BIBLE SOCIETY - http://www.aboutus.org/ChristianBibleSociety.org
I think I mailed you that link a few months ago.
If you surf to their website adres you will end up on the site of a Russian dog club... :winkgrin:
http://www.christianbiblesociety.org/
I remember you sending me a link, but I didn't remember it had all that info about the translation in it.
Anyway, woof woof.
You know what? Somehow I posted the wrong link...this is the one http://www.theexaminer.org/volume7/number6/best.htm
Quote from: jabcat on March 10, 2010, 01:17:25 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on March 10, 2010, 11:24:44 AM
Quote from: jabcat on March 09, 2010, 09:46:38 PM
Hey WW (and all - but WW because we've been discussing different aspects of this translation for awhile, trying to contact them, etc.) - I found this new site online about TCB. I DON'T KNOW THE AUTHOR, AND THE ARTICLE APPEARS TO BE CONNECTED TO THE CHRISTIAN BIBLE SOCIETY - http://www.aboutus.org/ChristianBibleSociety.org
I think I mailed you that link a few months ago.
If you surf to their website adres you will end up on the site of a Russian dog club... :winkgrin:
http://www.christianbiblesociety.org/
I remember you sending me a link, but I didn't remember it had all that info about the translation in it.
Anyway, woof woof.
The link points to a now doggy site.
The orginal site also had that article you posted.
I'm quite sure this is also a copy from the CB site: http://www.theexaminer.org/volume7/number6/speakers.htm
QuoteI just had a vision of Jabcat becoming the main distributor of CB
yikes. I had that same vision myself last night. :mshock:
I almost asked him if he was a distributor.
Quote from: wwWith this background let's read what Paul wrote to Timothy, while Timothy was in Ephesus (the center of Diana worship). "A woman must be quietly learning with all subservience! Now I'm not permitting a woman to be teaching or to be representing herself as the source of man, but to be quiet [about this]. For it was Adam who was molded first, then after this Eve. Now it wasn't Adam who was enticed, yet when his wife was totally enticed, there occurred the stepping beyond the boundaries;"- 1 Tim. 2:11-14 (CB).
Paul isn't saying here that women must be quiet and never be teachers. That would contradict what he and others say in other places! Rather, he is refuting the tenets of Pagan Gnosticism (Diana worship). Isn't he saying, "you have women there in Ephesus who are teaching and saying that they, as representatives of Eve, are the source of man (Adam); when in fact, it was our Savior who created Adam, and then formed Eve from Adam's side"? Is not Paul further saying, "since these women are saying and teaching these false things, tell them that they must be quiet, since I'm not permitting them to teach these falsehoods"?
oh, wow. This understanding would change the whole culture of Christianity. [Not that I ever paid much attention to it in the first place lol]
"First, let's look at the eleventh chapter of 1 Corinthians. Verse five talks about every woman who is praying (leading a prayer) or prophesying. If women are to remain silent in spiritual matters, how in the world can they be leading prayers or prophesying.
Let's talk about this word "prophesying." According to the Companion Reference Guide to the Christian Bible, this word in the Greek is PROFETEUO ("be-before-affirming"). The Guide then explains that this word means "to speak or affirm before someone for someone else, esp. for God; the 'before' is before in place, not time, as when Aaron spoke for Moses. before the Pharoah, because Aaron was Moses' spokesman (Exo. 4:16); any prediction is incidental to the prophecy. So to prophesy means to reveal words from God before someone, or in other words, to teach God's teachings.
So women could lead a prayer, reveal words from God, and teach. Not only this, but the ability to prophesy was one of the spiritual favors (gifts) of the Spirit. These women who were speaking about spiritual matter before Christians (1 Cor. 14:4) not only had God's passive acceptance, but His active appointment."I knew there was a reason I liked the study of words. :Sparkletooth:
Molly, I'm not 100% sure but I think I've read an article (on TM) that in the first few centuries there was a woman that did teach in church. And IIRC she was (very) high ranking too.
Women never had much status, but I think the resurrection of Jesus teaches something on that subject.
The discovery of the empty tomb of Jesus was a huge event in Christianity.
The task was given to women. Coincidence of a big hint?
:laugh: No, not a "distributor". I don't even know exactly where they are, besides Mammoth Springs Arkansas - that is, if they really exist :laughing7:. I think I initially found them on the web by searching for something like "the most literal translation"...it was a couple years or so ago, and back then their website was at least functional. Even then though, they didn't take credit cards or do internet orders, all through snail mail.
I sure have been thinking of taking a drive down there and see if I can find them though. I think it's 4-5 hours from my house though, so just haven't taken the plunge yet.
I also have thought of trying to help them somehow...seems a shame so few know about this translation :sigh:.
QuoteNo, not a "distributor".
Full ownership. Also good :thumbsup:
All the help they need is that someone takes and ships the orders.
But that takes trust because they need some cash for every sold copy.
If their stock runs out, that's the end of CB I think.
I have been using e-sword for 10 years or so. My study method whenever I have a question about translation is to 1)cross reference the verses in all the translations 2)do a Strong's/ Thayers dictionary check3) Check in my bauer/ arndt /gingrich lexicon 4) Go to the GreekNT and look at the exact tense and order of the words5)do a comprehensive usage check by calling up every usage of the word and running through them looking for exceptions and anomalies 6)pray & meditate for awhile :o) I usually bounce this through the NASB, KJV and YLT. I also have a New English Bible that occasionally has some interesting translations in it, and Darby as well. I have seen references to the Concordant Bible on here....so I will be getting that soon. I hadn't heard of the Green.
QuoteI have seen references to the Concordant Bible on here
It's called CLV in e-Sword.
You can get it here for free. (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=4470.0)
/edit
Unfortunately the electronic version is missing a lot compared to the printed version.
The text is identical but it's missing the little symbols in the text.
One example is
you+ indicating a plural word.
I think that's really sad for people (like you) that really study the exact meaning of words.
http://www.concordant.org/
http://www.concordant.org/version/index.html => few example with the mentioned symbols
THANKS :o)
Quote from: jabcat on March 09, 2010, 09:46:38 PM
This test is called the "NEW Literal Translation Test." The only place (that I know of) where you can get a copy of this test is from the Christian Bible Society (their address is near the end of this article). The test can be obtained in one of two ways: it is in the Introduction to the Christian Bible, or a free copy of the test can be requested from them.
<...snip...>
....the translation that got the second best score (Young's Literal Translation - 50%) was translated over a century ago in 1887!
I always thought YLT was quite good. Second best but half as good.
Assuming the test is accurate the choice for NT is clear. But what about the OT?
Yeah I'm aware the OT is written in another Greek dialect called Hebrew :laughing7: but I'm just wondering if versions score 10-50% on NT how accurate the OT is.
Personally I have no high hopes...
Concordant/CLV isn't tested, but it possibly scores quite well. Unfortunately their OT is still work in progress.
So what's a good OT?
How does the CB translate, 'Son of man'?
The Hebrew translates it, Son of Adam.
Matthew 8:20
And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.
Matthew 8:20 Then Yesu said to him, "The foxes have burrows, and the birds of the sky have roosts, yet the Son of Humanity has nowhere to recline His head."
:idea2:
In Hebrew the word man and mankind are very similar. And some say it's often translated wrong in Genesis.
Maybe instead of "Jesus is the second Adam." a better translation is "Jesus is the second mankind." ?
Quote from: MollyThe Hebrew translates it, Son of Adam.
So what exactly the Jews wrote? Son of Adam or Son of mankind?
Quote from: WhiteWings on March 11, 2010, 06:05:38 PM
Matthew 8:20 Then Yesu said to him, "The foxes have burrows, and the birds of the sky have roosts, yet the Son of Humanity has nowhere to recline His head."
Ok, thanks. So they are taking it directly from the Greek.
"man"G444
ἄνθρωπος
anthrōposanth'-ro-pos
From G435 and ὤψ ōps (the countenance; from G3700); manfaced, that is,
a human being: - certain, man.
G435
ἀνήρ
anēran'-ayr
A primary word (compare G444);
a man (properly as an individual male): - fellow, husband, man, sir.
5For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
6But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man that thou visitest him?
7Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
--Heb 2
Psalm 8:4
What is man ['ĕnôsh] , that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man ['âdâm], that thou visitest him? 9 O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth!--Psa 8
'name'H8034
שׁם
shêm
A primitive word (perhaps rather from H7760
through the idea of definite and conspicuous position; compare H8064); an appellation, as a mark or memorial of individuality; by implication
honor, authority, character: - + base, [in-] fame [-ous], name (-d), renown, report.
Quote from: wwMaybe instead of "Jesus is the second Adam." a better translation is "Jesus is the second mankind." ?
That's really cool, and it certainly would look that way to us. But, there is a definite connection between Jesus and Adam, in other words, a continuation of a the same thing--which is in the process of transformation through redemption. The Book starts and ends in the garden, in the holy of holies, in the presence of God.
No longer will there be anything accursed, but the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants will worship him. 4 They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. 5And night will be no more. They will need no light of lamp or sun, for the Lord God will be their light, and they will reign forever and ever.--Rev 22
Quote from: Molly on March 11, 2010, 06:55:33 PM
Quote from: wwMaybe instead of "Jesus is the second Adam." a better translation is "Jesus is the second mankind." ?
That's really cool, and it certainly would look that way to us. But, there is a definite connection between Jesus and Adam, in other words, a continuation of a the same thing--which is in the process of transformation through redemption. The Book starts and ends in the garden, in the holy of holies, in the presence of God.
The way I see it my thought has all that.
Adam-mankind stands for sin and mortality. -> In the garden. -> Start of proces
Jesus-mankind stands for the opposite. -> In heaven/presence of God. -> end of proces
Look I'm not saying my 'translation' is correct but I certainly see a strong connection.
And because Jabcat's CB thread is mainly a "look a another translation" I think we should also consider that certain thoughts/teachings are based on wrong translations.
Quote from: wwAdam-mankind stands for sin and mortality. -> In the garden. -> Start of proces
Romans 5:14
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.I could argue that Adam starts out technically immortal, as long as he obeys God. The tree of life is in the garden, from which he can eat freely.
God created Adam to rule over his garden, but because of Adam's transgression, death is reigning from Adam to Moses even without the Law. That is, sin is not reigning, but death. Adam is not reigning, but death. Christ is not reigning, but death.
Romans 5:17
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)"reign"G936
βασιλεύω
basileuōbas-il-yoo'-o
From G935;
to rule (literally or figuratively): - king, reign.
G935
βασιλεύς
basileusbas-il-yooce'
Probably from G939
(through the notion of a foundation of power); a sovereign (abstractly, relatively or figuratively): -
king.Adam gives the authority and rulership to death. Jesus takes it back.
So sin is not really the issue so much. The issue is death.
1 Corinthians 15:56
The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.Death has a stinger--sin--, like a poison dart, that kills us. The Law makes this stinger even more deadly.
So is our master to be death? What if that stinger can no longer touch us?
57But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.--1 Cor 15
I'd like to see if the CB gives a translation of any of these scriptures that would elucidate this further.
Don't have a scanner, typing this, so overlook any typos :bigGrin:
From The Christian Bible
I Cor. 15:45 onward ..."The first human Adam became a living sentient being [Gen 2:7]; the last Adam [that is, "the last head of humanity (Yesu)"] has become a Life-giving Spirit".....47 The first human was from the earth, fron the topsoil; the second Human was from heaven [Yesu]...and just as we have worn the image of the one from topsoil, we will also wear the image of the One from heaven
I Cor 15: 51-57
Notice, I am telling you a secret. All of us [from this age] won't fall asleep [die], yet all of us will be changed in an instant, in a blink of an eye, at the last blowing of the trumpet. For the trumpet will be blown, and the dead will be awakened with bodies that are never going to be subject to decay , and we will be changed. For this body that is subject to decay, has to put on, like clothing, what is never going to decay; and this body that is subject to dying, has to put on, like clothing, what is never going to die; Now when this body that is subject to decay has put on, like clothing, what is never going to decay, and this body that is subject to dying has put on, like clothing, what is never going to die, then the word that has been written will occur, "Death has been swallowed up by victory: [Is. 25:8]. "Oh death, where is your victory? Oh death, where is your sting"? [Hos 13:14]. Now it is wrongdoing that gives death its sting, and it is the law that gives wrongdoing its power. Yet thanks be to God who is going to give us the victory by means of our Master Yesus (the Anointed One)! Therefore, my dearly loved brothers and sisters, you must continualy be settled and unmovable, and must be always abundantly workng for the Master, since you must be aware that your labor in the service of the Master isn't for nothing!
Quote from: wwAdam-mankind stands for sin and mortality. -> In the garden. -> Start of proces
Jesus-mankind stands for the opposite. -> In heaven/presence of God. -> end of proces
I do agree with this, though, in this sense.
What you are calling 'Jesus-mankind', I would call
Y'shû‛âh 'ĕlôhıym, the saints of God.
Isaiah 52:10
The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God."the salvation"Y'shû‛âh"of our God"'ĕlôhıym.
Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who didn't do that was wrong like the stepping beyond boundaries done by Adam, who is a is a representation for the One who was going to come.
Romans 5:17 For while by offense of the one person, death reigned through that one; to a much greater degree will those who are obtaining the abundance of His favor and His freely given gift of being right [and just before Him], reign in Life trough the One, Yesu (the Anoited One]
1 Corinthians 15:56 Now it is wrongdoing that gives death its sting, and it is the Law that gives wrongdoing its power
1 Corinthians 15:57 Yet thanks be to the God who is going to give us the victory by means of our Master Yesu (the Anointed One)!
BTW words between [...] is like commentary. It's not like KJVs italic words
Quote..like the stepping beyond boundaries done by Adam,
Oh, man. I just love this Bible. Stepping beyond boundaries--it wasn't his place to die for Eve.
Jab, you have to go meet these people.
Quote from: Molly on March 11, 2010, 09:37:37 PM
Quote..like the stepping beyond boundaries done by Adam,
Oh, man. I just love this Bible. Stepping beyond boundaries--it wasn't his place to die for Eve.
Or it just means eating from the tree was overstepping a boundary...?
QuoteJab, you have to go meet these people.
Sounds like old times....
Jabcat you have to taste the fruit :winkgrin:
Quote from: WhiteWings on March 11, 2010, 09:42:56 PM
Quote from: Molly on March 11, 2010, 09:37:37 PM
Quote..like the stepping beyond boundaries done by Adam,
Oh, man. I just love this Bible. Stepping beyond boundaries--it wasn't his place to die for Eve.
Or it just means eating from the tree was overstepping a boundary...?
QuoteJab, you have to go meet these people.
Sounds like old times....
Jabcat you have to taste the fruit :winkgrin:
LOL!
Maybe I'll go myself.
(PS Adam, unlike Eve, knew he was going to die.)
I'm still wondering what Jabcat is going/trying to do.
He only has a PO box number. Plus from previous experiences they check that PO box once a month. At best :winkgrin:
So James ask Gary if he makes a tent for you.
By "he" I guess you mean the Christian Bible guy.
Well, I just pretty much figured out where Mammoth Spring is, and it's right on the way to a place I hope to be traveling to within the next 4-6 weeks or so, Lord willing. Soooo, I'll try to arrange it where I have some time to stop by there. I'll make efforts to contact them by mail before then, trying to get info as to where they are, if they'd let me stop by, etc. I don't know if they're open to this kind of "attention" or not, but we'll see. Probably depends on how/why they feel they're being approached. Keep you posted.
Quote from: jabcat on March 11, 2010, 10:19:11 PMBy "he" I guess you mean the Christian Bible guy.
He=you
You has only a PO box number.
He doesn't live in his PO box (but in his old car) :laughing7:
Quote from: jabcatWell, I just pretty much figured out where Mammoth Spring is, and it's right on the way to a place I hope to be traveling to within the next 4-6 weeks or so,
Quote from: MollyMaybe I'll go myself.
Carpooling...
(http://www.basketcasecomix.com/comics/2009-04-03-CCXmoses_carpool.png)
Idle hope but I would like the CB in electronic format. Easier searching and quoting.
And ofcourse their Companion Bible linked to it for word defenitions.
Quote from: WhiteWings on March 12, 2010, 10:11:03 AM
Idle hope but I would like the CB in electronic format. Easier searching and quoting.
And ofcourse their Companion Bible linked to it for word defenitions.
yep. Me too. That's the easiest way to initially make the Bible available. And you could even charge people ten or twenty dollars to download it through Paypal.
QuoteCarpooling...
That's funny lol--BUT--this actually works. Try praying next time you go anywhere and enjoy the parking space at the front when you get there, too.
Any update?
Again he asked, "What shall I compare the kingdom of God to? It is like yeast that a woman took and mixed into(egkrupto-incorporate with....hide in) a large amount of flour until it worked all through the dough."
(Luk 13:20-21)NIV
And again He said, "To what shall I be likening the kingdom of God? Like is it to leaven, which, getting, a woman hides in three seahs of meal, till the whole was leavened."
(Luk 13:20-21)CLV
And again he said, `To what shall I liken the reign of God? It is like leaven, which a woman, having taken, did hide in three measures of meal, till that all was leavened.'
(Luk 13:20-21)YLT
IMO in this instance the NIV got it right, where the others missed it. The "hide" word does not really communicate the foremost meaning. The woman is not primarily "hiding"(apokrupto), in our modern sense of the word, the leaven. She is mixing it in- incorporating it with, the meal(flour/dough) for the common purpose of leavening the bread or cake she is making. When the leaven is mixed in, it is then left for a time where it expands by virtue of its own nature (and the application of certain natural physical elements like heat, air, water)
I also find this parable to be an interesting one in relation to UR. It has an application to spirit soul and body, as the incorruptible seed is planted like leaven in our hearts(good ground) and is kneaded through trial and experience until our spirit is empowered, our mind and emotions are renewed, and our body resurrected. In relation to UR I think it also has an application to the three ages of the aionian gospel(Rev 14:6).... from Adam to Christ, From first advent to second advent, the the thousand year reign- or something like that- till God be all in all.
Even as God is becoming all in all in me, He is becoming all in all in "the all"
I also think that this passage also shows that there is no across the board trustworthy English translation, and that in every case, it is better to examine all the sources and compare to the greek and hebrew.
Now again He said, "To what shall I compare God's Kingdom?
It is like leavened dough, which a woman took and hid in three pecks of meal [coarse flour], until the whole thing became leavened." (Luk 13:20-21)CB
Awesome scrips from The Christian Bible; chock full of sound doctrine.
Ephesians 1
7 It is through union with Him [Yesu] that we have liberaton by means of the ransom payment of His blood, the forgiveness of our offenses....
10 looking to a management plan that will bring the time periods to their fulfillment, that is, the summing up of everything through union with the Anointed One, the things in the heavens and the things on the earth.
11 It is through union with Him [Yesu] that we too were made His inheritance, since we have been designated beforehand in accordance with the purpose of the One who is operating eveything according to the counsel of what He wants...
13 It is through union with Him [Yesu], after you had heard the Word of Truth (the Good Message about your Salvation), and believed in Him also, that you too were sealed [secured] with the promised Pure Spirit,
14 which is the down payment of our inheritance, so that we whom he has purchased, might have our liberation by His payment of the ransom, and praise his glory for it...
22 He has made everything subservient under His feet, and has given Him, as the Head [the top] over everything...
I see at least 5-6 important sound doctrines in this passage. What do you see? :bigGrin:
7. The Son is the only way to Father.
10. The Master plan is UR.
11. His plan. His will. See 7
13. See 7
14. Depends who is "we"
22. UR
Quote from: http://www.yabsearch.nl/What do you see?
Contradictions with our earlier findings
7- Union
10- Union
11- Union
13- Union
14- Our Inheritance
22- Christ Jesus!
Good answers! Highlighting some main things I see;
7 union liberaton ransom payment His blood forgiveness
10 management plan bring the time periods to their fulfillment summing up of everything
11 union His inheritance designated beforehand eveything according to the counsel of what He wants...
13 union with Him [Yesu] through the Word of Truth believed in Him sealed [secured] with the Pure Spirit
14 we whom he has purchased liberation His payment of the ransom praise
22 everything subservient under His feet the Head [the top] over everything...
My thoughts - what a huge amount loaded into a few verses ;
in union with Yesu
it's God's plan
reconcile everything
ecclesia predestined
He paid the ransom with His blood
we are liberated
everything according to His will
He purchased us
union with Jesus, through the Word heard (2 of the 3 aspects of the Word presented, i.e., spoken Word, Jesus the Word come to us in flesh [+ written Word; logos, rhema, made flesh])
believing involved
sealed with the Spirit
praise to Him
everything subservient to Him
He is the head
John 8:31 Then Yesu was saying... "If you stay in My Word, you are truly My students; 32 and you will know the Truth, and the Truth will make you free." 43 Why don't you know My speech? It is because you can't hear My Word. 47 Whoever belongs to God, is continually hearing God's Declarations; for this reason, you are not hearing them, because you don't belong to God." 51 Amen, Amen [truly, truly], I say to you, whoever keeps My Word, shall under no circumstances gaze at Death at the begininng of the Last Age.
Is there any e-sword module, or online version of this translation?
And, is their site trustworthy? Not that I don't trust Russian sites...just that when I see mostly dog pictures I kinda have this; "...wut? lol" reaction, considering it is a Bible site?
There is no electronic version.
The dog site is not the Bible site.
The Bible site is offline for a long time.
It will be hard or even impossible to get a printed copy.
That is a little sad. Alas, what happened? Did King James roll in his grave and send forth his legion of vampiric pastors to lay siege to the printing press?
2 years ago they had a website. I tried to order a Bible + companion (concordance)
Both their e-mail addresses bounced.
James made a inquiry for me (snail mail) and they just send him the Bible. No payment was made (yet)
I think that shows their translation skills are way above their marketing skills.
They were/are even afraid to anger God by making a profit. They lost their jobs and house to fund the translation.
And then.... they just stop selling the translation.
James tried to contact them again (twice) but no reply yet (James?)
Speaking of Jabcat James here :winkgrin:
King James likely would hate the translation... (NT only)
Personally I would really like a electronic version....
I think we should pray for them.
Afterall, what you lose for the sake of Christ, he'll give back one hundred fold in the land of the living will he not?
Lets be good stewards of our gift, and pray for those who have worked hard. :)
Actually my last intention had been to contact them by snail mail, but found an email address for them/someone connected to them. I didn't ever hear anything back. The 2 times I've contacted them by snail mail, I have heard back - they were both Bible orders - the first for me, the 2nd for WW. It's been over a year since I've tried by mail. Again, intended to, but found the email address and decided to attempt contact that way.
I promise I will mail out a USPS letter to them Monday, telling them there is some interest in their translation, and what is the best way to order. If they're still in existence, I really think they can be contacted that way. Also, Lord willing, I plan to go see my mom and sisters in Bentonville, Arkansas, which I can make a little detour and go through Mammoth Springs on the way (which is where TCB is supposedly located). If I haven't heard back by the time of my trip the first week of November, I'll swing down that way and try to find them.
actually, now I'm wondering if I did mail an inquiry to them a few months ago. Hmm..or more likely, I wrote it, didn't send it, found the email address, so did that. :sorry:
Well, either way, I just wrote a letter, and am heading right now to drop it in the post office box.
OK, just mailed this.
...I quote your translation and there is interest by others in perhaps obtaining a copy. I've attempted to contact you by email several times. Plz tell me what's the best way to order - should people send a certain amount first, contact you first with their request, etc.? Thanks, God bless. James.
So that guy with the the email adress similar to ....teacher@....com didn't answer either?
Not even the guy who indicated he was connected with The Christian Bible. I believe one of those guys did identify as 'teacher'. No one has ever responded by email - only snail mail, and I mailed a letter tonight.
Hey my friend how does Romans 7:17-19 read in the Christian Bible. Thank you and Peace Through Jesus
17 Yet it is a fact that it is no longer I who am producing it, but wrongdoing which is making its home in me.
18 For I am aware that goodness isn't making its home in me (that is, in my flesh), for wanting is there with me, but the producing of what is ideal isn't.
19 For I'm not doing the good that I want to do, but rather I am putting into practice the very bad thing that I don't want to do.
Quote from: WhiteWings on October 18, 2010, 05:33:46 PM
17 Yet it is a fact that it is no longer I who am producing it, but wrongdoing which is making its home in me.
18 For I am aware that goodness isn't making its home in me (that is, in my flesh), for wanting is there with me, but the producing of what is ideal isn't.
19 For I'm not doing the good that I want to do, but rather I am putting into practice the very bad thing that I don't want to do.
Thank you very much WW
I got a card from Christian Bible Society. Very nice, handwritten by a lady who signed as "volunteer".
I don't have the card with me right now. But she said they had a series of events that hindered them, including I believe, one of their key workers had passed away, and that their website had been "hijacked by a company in Europe". She said they're not on the web "right now", which sounds as if they may be again at some point. Honestly, to me (putting 2 and 2 together and hopefully not getting 5) it sounds as if their resources are quite limited and they haven't been able to recover from their problems.
She was very gracious, thanked me, and said Bibles can still be ordered by sending $20 to
The Christian Bible Society, P.O Box 530, Mammoth Springs, Arkansas, 72554.
From The Christian Bible (1991)
"Now My sentient being has become disturbed; and what shall I say, 'Father, You must save Me out of this hour'? But for this reason I came to this hour. Father, You must glorify Your name! So a voice then came out of heaven, "I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again".
That European company must be the Russian dog owner club.
$20: Bible - shipping included in the USA
$25: Companion - shipping included in the USA
$35: Both - shipping included in the USA
For those living outside the USA contact them for shipping costs.
That was the deal IIRC. James?
If there are volenteers it at least means they want to continue something. It can just as well be church volenteers who also answer emails.
One of the translators might be a preacher: http://www.aboutus.org/ChristianBibleSociety.org
Anyway if you+ like a copy order it now because I doubt there will ever be a second print.
James, did you ask them about an electronic copy?
Quote from: WhiteWings on November 13, 2010, 08:43:52 AM
James, did you ask them about an electronic copy?
One miracle at a time Tony, one miracle at a time. :laughing7:
...for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we exist for Him; and there is but one Master, Yesu (the Anointed One), by means of Whom all things exist, including us who ourselves exist by means of Him. However, not everyone knows this... I Cor. 8:6,7 The Christian Bible
You must be continually walking with wisdom towards those on the outside [unbelievers], making the most of each occasion; you must be always letting your speech be with favor, seasoned with salt [make it appetizing to the hearer (and use well-preserved words, not rotten ones)], noticing how you ought to respond to each person! Colossians 4:5,6 The Christian Bible
Quote from: jabcat on November 18, 2010, 07:45:02 PM
You must be continually walking with wisdom towards those on the outside [unbelievers], making the most of each occasion; you must be always letting your speech be with favor, seasoned with salt [make it appetizing to the hearer (and use well-preserved words, not rotten ones)], noticing how you ought to respond to each person! Colossians 4:5,6 The Christian Bible
:bigGrin: :thumbsup:
Did anyone think to do a google search?
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=90120059235
:bigGrin:
What is Google :dontknow:
:icon_jokercolor:
I wonder how old that message is because I would be suprised if that email adress works.
I requested to become a member. I would say the facebook presence is fairly recent. I sent an email to the address asking to purchase both books. It hasn't bounced back yet.
Bob
I hope you speak Russian because likely your mail went here http://christianbiblesociety.org/ (http://christianbiblesociety.org/) (http://www.dogtrainingplus.com/WalkingDog.gif)
Quote from: WhiteWings on December 10, 2010, 10:25:34 PM
What is Google :dontknow:
:icon_jokercolor:
I wonder how old that message is because I would be suprised if that email adress works.
I dont know how old, but when I went to the site he gave, I found a good site with information. I have both books ordered and from the small amount of verses I have read from Jabcat, I am quite interested. I have not tryed to contact them as of yet; Maybe when my material arrvies there maybe some up date information. When I find it possible and when I can afford it, I will hope to visit since I am about 70 miles from Mammoth Springs.
Quote from: micah7:9 on December 11, 2010, 12:27:12 AMI dont know how old, but when I went to the site he gave, I found a good site with information.
It's (part of) the info that was on their site before it turned into a Russian dog club site.
Quote from: WhiteWings on December 11, 2010, 12:52:47 AM
Quote from: micah7:9 on December 11, 2010, 12:27:12 AMI dont know how old, but when I went to the site he gave, I found a good site with information.
It's (part of) the info that was on their site before it turned into a Russian dog club site.
So you have attempted to get in touch with them with no response? I have not, I just found their information very upliting.
Quote from: GalanSRQ on December 10, 2010, 10:05:44 PM
Did anyone think to do a google search?
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=90120059235
:bigGrin:
Good find. Hadn't seen them on fb before.
Just my 2 cents. TCB is my #1 reading Bible. However, I do find things I don't agree with. They do say "all kinds of humans" rather than simply "all". They also make a lot of references to destruction in their explanatory notes - which may be true (UR believes in destruction, but of things/qualities, not individuals) - but as stated in TCB notes, it sounds as if it could be making the case for annihilation - at least without further interpretation/rightly dividing. They also seem to talk about the next age as being the Last Age, which I don't agree with. (in other translations, Eph 2:7 says "in the ages to come He might show to us His immense riches" - TCB says "presently coming ages [present age and the Last Age]...).
However, most of these issues are in their explanatory notes, not in the translation itself. I've told WW I personally would like it better if they'd have just let the translation stand on its own and leave out much of the "explanations". :2c:
Quote from: jabcat on December 11, 2010, 02:48:27 AM
Just my 2 cents. TCB is my #1 reading Bible. However, I do find things I don't agree with. They do say "all kinds of humans" rather than simply "all". They also make a lot of references to destruction in their explanatory notes - which may be true (UR believes in destruction, but of things/qualities, not individuals) - but as stated in TCB notes, it sounds as if it could be making the case for annihilation - at least without further interpretation/rightly dividing. They also seem to talk about the next age as being the Last Age, which I don't agree with. (in other translations, Eph 2:7 says "in the ages to come He might show to us His immense riches" - TCB says "presently coming ages [present age and the Last Age]...).
However, most of these issues are in their explanatory notes, not in the translation itself. I've told WW I personally would like it better if they'd have just let the translation stand on its own and leave out much of the "explanations". :2c:
I have not recieved my book yet. And I may agree with you on what you say, but then, should this translation be a more concise(true) interpretaion and possible of more truth in how it reads, other than what we have ascribed to; perhaps it is my way(what I believe to be true) that is in question rather that what is "true".
I do not know. But what if, this translation is closer to what was said than what I have read and studied till now? I for one am not afraid to believe and stand for a Father and Creator who has in His expression of Love, that He will bring ALL of what He made, created, formed, and spoke back to Him. I cannot accept a Father who would leave one out of a RE call. My :2c:
Quote from: micah7:9 on December 11, 2010, 01:26:55 AM
Quote from: WhiteWings on December 11, 2010, 12:52:47 AM
Quote from: micah7:9 on December 11, 2010, 12:27:12 AMI dont know how old, but when I went to the site he gave, I found a good site with information.
It's (part of) the info that was on their site before it turned into a Russian dog club site.
So you have attempted to get in touch with them with no response? I have not, I just found their information very upliting.
Let me start saying I own the TCB for a while now > 1 year.
I mailed to their sales person and webmaster. Both adresses where dead. James did the same also no luck.
At that time their site was still online. Since a while the site is gone. And since al little shorter while their URL points to a Russian dog owner club. Because the email adress is linked to teh same domain as the Russian dog club it's very well possible all mail ends up there too.
It's very weird because I simply don't believe Russians would steal that domain. I mean who would call his dog club the christian Bible society?
Domain aren't free either. You have to pay a small rent for them or the name expires.
I hope Galan has more luck on Facebook.
James didn't the letter you recieved mention they are setting things up again? Maybe facebook is part of that?
Maybe something along the lines of "trying to get reorganized/figure out which direction to go"...so yes, maybe so.
James, Micah,
There are [in verse commentaries] I can't say I hate them. Usually they are neutral or helpful.
The most important thing is that their translations isn't affected by their commentaries.
I think you sound rather strong with your ED statement James. Stronger as when we PMed about it.
For what it's worth Concordonant version also believes in a last age.
Plan of the ages being 7 ages doesn't sound very odd...
All sorts of people sounds a bit strange. But that also depends on how you read it. Black/White. Rich/poor. Smart/dumb. Etc.
And not just the pharo and a handfull of priests that can be a slave for eternity.
We should start a TCB discussion topic when more people get the translation
Quote from: micah7:9 on December 11, 2010, 04:30:31 AMBut what if, this translation is closer to what was said than what I have read and studied till now?
Depends on what you have read. YLT and CLV both are a huge step forward on many other translations.
For a truely perfect translation you need to read Greek and Hebrew.....
Just look at a truely 1 on 1 translation like ISA2. That English looks just as much German as it does look English.
So translators not only have to translate words but also reorder the words into something that's readable in English.
Things will very likely go lost in translation.
Quote from: WhiteWings on December 11, 2010, 07:46:35 AM
James, Micah,
I think you sound rather strong with your ED statement James. Stronger as when we PMed about it.
We should start a TCB discussion topic when more people get the translation
That would be fun. I've been posting TCB verses for awhile, but you're right, not many have the translation. Discussion/comparisons might be fun and fruitful.
As far as the ED statements, I've just sort of looked at it like "well, destruction can mean X,Y,Z" (apollumi issues, fire/brimstone cleansing, etc.) depends on whether those verses are taken in context with all the others that say God will restore, renew, vivify ALL, be All in All, etc....but if one just reads TCB commentary which just kind of strictly states "destruction", then standing alone without further context, IMO it does sound ED'ish. But my contention has been maybe that's not exactly how they mean it..maybe it's just a literal interpretation/comment, then it's up to the reader to look at context and be led into proper understanding/revelation, etc.
:thumbsup:
Ok, I just noticed your wording was a bit stronger as I'm used too in our chats.
Now, dear readers, I don't want to play holy here but to be fair I contacted James first about the possible ED undertone in some verses.
LS you are going to love this ED translation :icon_jokercolor:
Yes you did.
You know what? Since by isolated readings of some commentary/interpretation it could appear they have some ED leanings, I'm just going to ask. Don't know how except by snail mail or maybe through facebook. Not sure they'll answer me, but I'm going to ask if their comments about "destruction" means they think it's total destruction of the person, or destruction of anything sinful, etc.
Here is the automated reply I received overnight after sending an email to mail@christianbibllesociety.org....the email address noted in the Facebook page:
This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.
THIS IS A WARNING MESSAGE ONLY.
YOU DO NOT NEED TO RESEND YOUR MESSAGE.
Delivery to the following recipients has been delayed.
mail@christianbiblesociety.org
Bob
Subesquent email received overnight.....
This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification. Unable to deliver message to the following recipients, due to being unable to connect successfully to the destination mail server. mail@christianbiblesociety.org
I'm usually happy to be right; but not in this time :sigh:
It's the same message James and I got on several atttempt and different times.
Maybe direct Facebook contact is an opion?
Yes, ww, I've also done that. Haven't gotten a response yet.
bob
micah let me know he got his CB this week, and he really likes it.
Following are some very important scriptures from The Christian Bible. :2c:
..."we have to enter into God's Kingdom by going through many oppressions." ..Then after they had spoken the Master's Word in Perga...gathered the group of Called Ones, they began delivering the message among them about ...how he had opened a door of faith to the pagans... Now some people came down from Judea and began teaching the brother and sisters, "Unless you men are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you can't be saved."
..Paul and Barnabas..go up to Jerusalem to the dispatched envoys and older ones about this question....they were continually describing in detail about the turning around of the pagans, and were causing great joy to all the brothers and sisters....Yet some people from the sect [denomination] of the Pharisees, who had now become Believers, rose up and said, "They have to be circumcised and charged to keep the Law of Moses."
..Now after much questioning had occurred, Peter rose up and said to them, "Brothers and sisters, you have expertise in the fact that from the beginning days God chose among you, that through my mouth the pagans should hear the Word of the Good Message and believe. Now God, who knows what is in hearts, testified to them, giving them the Pure Spirit, just as he also did to us, and discriminated in nothing between us and them, making their hearts clean by faith. So then, why are you now testing God by placing a yoke upon the necks of the students that neither our forefathers nor we have been strong enough to carry? Rather, we are continually believing that we are saved through the favor of the Master Yesu, in the same manner as they also.. Acts (last part of 14, first part of 15), The Christian Bible (1991)
Quote from: CHB on March 10, 2010, 12:47:24 AM
jabcat, does this Christian Bible have the books in the right order?
CHB
TCB is NT only. I found a translation that has the OT in the Jewish order.
Quote3. The books of the Old Testament in this Bible are not in the same order as in other English versions. This results from the translation from the Septuagint, referred to earlier. The order of the books in other English Bibles was derived from the Greek Septuagint (if you want to know more about that topic, you might want to check out The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah). This follows the Hebrew canonical order, separating the scriptures into the Torah, the Prophets, and the Writings. Since there is no Hebrew canonical order for the New Testament (since it is not considered scripture by Judaism), the New Testament, or B'rit Hadashah, is in the same order as you are used to.
http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Jewish-Bible-Testament-Hadashah/product-reviews/9653590154/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
So then, in the same way there has also come to be...a remnant chosen as a favor. Now if it is by a favor it is no longer based on works, otherwise the favor is no longer a favor. So then what does this mean? Israel did not encounter what it was seeking; yet those who were chosen did encounter it, and the rest were made callous. Just as it has been written, "God gave them a spirit of deep sleep, eyes that can't observe, and ears that can't hear, down to this very day." Romans 11
Quote from: WhiteWings on December 11, 2010, 08:14:20 AM
:thumbsup:
Ok, I just noticed your wording was a bit stronger as I'm used too in our chats.
Now, dear readers, I don't want to play holy here but to be fair I contacted James first about the possible ED undertone in some verses.
LS you are going to love this ED translation :icon_jokercolor:
LOL!
I hope you know that like each of you, I'm only seeking Truth; I try not to see one view or another. ED is where I've been led at this point, as I know US is where you have been led. God has His reasons :)
I'll be interested in following this thread to see what you all find out! :cloud9:
Now notice, there was a human in Jerusalem whose name was Simeon; and this human was just and reverent, anticipating the encouragement of Israel; and the Pure Spirit was upon him. Now he had been given notice by the Pure Spirit that he wouldn't notice death before he should notice the Master's Anointed One. Now he came under the guidane of the Spirit into the sacred place; and as the parents brought in the little Boy Yesu, for them to do for Him according to the Law's custom, he also took Him into his arms, and blessed God, and said, "Now, Owner, You are dismissing Your slave in peace, according to Your Declaration, because my eyes have noticed Your method of Salvation, that You have made ready before the faces of all the people, to be a light for the revelation to the pagans, and to be a glory to Your people Israel."
Related to Israel set aside for a season, the gospel going to the Gentiles, until the fulfillment of their time, then All Israel Shall Be Saved!
A nice little nugget; Simeone had some revelation of at least part of that plan. :thumbsup:
Yet wicked humans and swindlers will progressively get worse and worse, leading others astray and being led astray themselves. Yet you must be continually staying with those things that you have learned and firmly believed, since your are aware of from whom you learned them, and that from a baby you have been acquainted with God's Sacred Writings, that are able by means of your faith in the Anointed One Yesu to give you wisdom that is going to result in Salvation! Every [Pure] Writing is inspired by God and beneficial for teaching, for exposure, for correction, and for training in things that are right so that the human of God might be continually capable, thoroughly equipped for every good work....You must proclaim the Word! 2 Timothy 3:14-17, 4:2
I find the translation quite American and I like that. Thats just how I read and understand it and that does not by any means make it a better of sounder translation. :bigGrin:
2 Corinthians 4:7 Now I have this treasure in an earthen container, so that its immense power might be seen to come from God and not from me. 11 For although I am alive, I am constantly being delivered over to death because of Yesu, so that the Life of Yesu also might be made apparent in my dying flesh. 12 Therefore, it is death that is continually operating in me; yet it is Life that is continually operating in you... 14 because I am aware that the One who has awakened the Master Yesu, will also wake up me to be together with Yesu, and will have me stand together with you... 16 For this reason I'm not discouraged, even though my outward human [body] is continually decaying, nevertheless my inner self is continually being revewed day by day.
5:1 For I am aware that if my earthly tent home [my temporary home (my present body)] is demolished, I'm going to have a building [a new body] that comes from God, a home...among the heavens that hasn't been made by hands. 2 For in this one [my present body] I am continually groaning, since I am continually desiring to put on, like clothes, my home that comes from heaven....
From The Christian Bible Forward;
Christ vs. the Anointed One: The Greek word "kristos" means the same thing as the Hebrew word "Messiah." It is not a name; but rather, a title, and therefore should be translated, just as "Messiah" was translated for people who didn't understand Hebrew. The word was used with Yesu's name to differentiate Him from other people named "Yesu" or "Joshua", since only He is THE Anointed One.
(So the CB translators refer to Him as Yesu the Anointed One.)
WOW I LIKE THAT "TCB" Translation. I would love to have one, any more info about where to purchase or who to contact, websites ETC. Please let me know...
Thank you
rod
Quote from: rodm on April 03, 2011, 10:28:09 AM
WOW I LIKE THAT "TCB" Translation. I would love to have one, any more info about where to purchase or who to contact, websites ETC. Please let me know...
Thank you
rod
$20: Bible - shipping included in the USA
$25: Companion - shipping included in the USA
$39: Both - shipping included in the USA
For those living outside the USA contact them for shipping costs.
Snail mail only. Website is down for almost 2 years.
Christian Bible Society
Mammoth Spring
US 72554
+1.8705237988
Allow a month for shipping.
NT only.
Very good paper and printing quality.
Hardcover.
Dunno if any here has heard of the wayback machine...
http://replay.waybackmachine.org/20050308195836/http://www.christianbiblesociety.org/bible.shtml
The archives of the pages of the CB pages are all there...
regards
Thank you friend :grin:
Works great :thumbsup:
So then, what shall we declare that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? For if Abraham was justified on the basis of his works, he has something to boast about, but not when facing God. For what does the Writing say? "And Abraham had faith in God, and it was regarded to him as being right [and just before God]". Now to the person who is continually working, his wage isn't regarded as a favor, but as a debt. Yet to the person who isn't continually working, yet is continually having his faith in the One who is justifying the undevoted person, his faith is regarded to him as being right [and just before God]. It is just like when David tells about the happiness of the human whom God regards as being right [and just before Him] apart from works: "Happy is the person whose lawless ways have been forgiven, and whose wrongdoings have been covered. Happy is the man whose wrondoing the Master shall by no means regard" [Psa. 32:1-2]. So then, is this happiness only for those who are circumcised, or is it also for those who are uncircumcised? So then, under what circumstances was it regarded as being right [and just before God]? While he was circumcised or uncircumcised? It wasn't while he was circumcised, but while he was uncircumcised. Romans 4: 1-10 The Christian Bible
Amen. Beautiful! :HeartThrob: :happyclap: :happyclap:
Hi WhiteWings or anyone,
I went to that website for the Christian Bible, and read everything there. I was very excited. However, I tried to email them at Mail@christianbiblesociety.org to ask a question. The email came back with a permanent error. So I tried to call them and it is disconnected. Has anyone had success contacting them? I would really like to get that bible. :sigh:
Hi Outpouring,
Both of their e-mail adresses are broken for at least 2 years. Their site is gone.
James/Jabcat had success contacting/ordering by regular mail. Response time is about a month.
But that was almost 2 years ago, I have no clue what the situation is right now.
There are other good translations: http://www.concordant.org/version/index.html ==> also a free electronic version.
Also check out the second link in my signature.
Christian Bible Society,
P.O. Box 530,
Mammoth Spring, AR 72554
ISBN 0-9645829-0-2
Note: TCB is New Testament only!
Quote from: WhiteWings on December 20, 2011, 12:27:12 AM
Christian Bible Society,
P.O. Box 530,
Mammoth Spring, AR 72554
ISBN 0-9645829-0-2
Note: TCB is New Testament only!
Yes regular mail is the only way and it could take more than a month, but its worth the wait. The key word is patience.
Pure Father, keep them by the power of Your name (the one that You have given to Me ['Yesu' means 'Yehweh-Savior']}...I have given your Word to them, and the world hated them, because they don't belong to the world, just as I don't belong to the world. I'm not asking You to take them away out of the world, but to keep them from the Wicked One [Satan]. Purify them by the Truth; Your Word is Truth! Just as You have dispatched Me into the world, I have also dispatched them into the world. So on their behalf I am purifying Myself, so that they might also be purified by the Truth. "Now I'm not aksing only on the behalf of these, but also on the behalf of those who are continually believing in Me by means of their [the disciples]word, so that they all might continually be one, just as You, Father, are in union with Me, and I am in union with You; John 17:12,14-21
thanks everyone, :bigGrin:
I have the Concordant and Youngs Literal New Testaments. Been using those to compare with my other bibles. I was impressed with the Christian Bible that the test on how literal it was and how it flowed. Very nice reading. Am curious to see how they dealt with some of the words I have been looking at and to see how it harmonizes with UR. Have been tying to understand the part where those who have died with out Christ will eventually have the ability to bow their knew and confess Christ later on. So far I only have two scriptures in the New Testament which are (1Tim. 4:10, 1Cor.15:23) and (1Tim. 2:6) but I am getting off the subject and really should be posting this somewhere else.
I guess I should take a chance and purchase the Christian Bible. I heard of another one that is in the making but I don't know if it will be as good, score wise. It is called Transparent English Bible (TEB) It is from the Original Bible Project. Don't think it is out yet.
I'm only surmising, giving my IMPRESSION from how I perceive it, but it seems to me they may lean toward annihilation.
It is a very good reading Bible. There are little comments within the text that informative, and other ones I could do without. For instance, they say things like (in the Fiery Destruction of the last age). They also say it's God's will for "all kinds of humans to be saved and come to the knowledge.." rather than all men. So that could go along with annihilationism. They don't use 'hell'. So, :dontknow: for sure ...
Thanks Jabcat,
well despite those types of comments, all in all, you think it is a good translation? It sure seems easier reading than the concordant. Appreciate your analysis. :thumbsup:
Yes it's a good translation. The comments are always [....]
But that's not what James means I think. Outside the [] is also a doctrinal view. But it's very mild. Perhaps it isn't even there.
I discussed this with James in PM and back then he wasn't really sure about it.
There are several possibilities:
a] Doctrinal translation.
b] Honest translation that doesn't use the best possible words at a few places.
c] Annihilationism is totally Biblical.
d] James sees things that are not there. That includes me because IIRC I brought up the topic.
Little note about c]
True Biblical annihilationism might be misundertood. Sodom got totally annihilated but God prommised it would be restored to greater glory as it had before. :2c:
OP, I found some low-res scans on one of my backups.
https://rcpt.yousendit.com/1320334906/a70c283f771bd11a04ae7d93fffcab61 (https://rcpt.yousendit.com/1320334906/a70c283f771bd11a04ae7d93fffcab61)
If you wish you can request a few extra scans (in higher resolution)
Here's an example of something that sounds like an annihilation perspective in the Christian Bible;
The Father loves the Son, and has given everything into His hand. Whoever is continually believing in the Son, has Life in the Last Age; yet whoever is continually unpersuaded by the Son, won't see Life, but God's anger is staying on him [such that he will be destroyed in the Fire]." John 3:35,36
First thing to note is the usage of Fire instead of fire.
How long does that age last? Why does destruction takes an age? Does that age refer to the "next age" of the so-called unpardonable sin?
(Matt 25:46) And, these, shall go away, into, age–abiding, correction, but, the righteous, into, age–abiding, life.
Quote from: WhiteWings on December 26, 2011, 10:44:31 AM
First thing to note is the usage of Fire instead of fire.
How long does that age last? Why does destruction takes an age? Does that age refer to the "next age" of the so-called unpardonable sin?
(Matt 25:46) And, these, shall go away, into, age–abiding, correction, but, the righteous, into, age–abiding, life.
The use of punctuation and capitalization is pitfall enough, but unavoidable with our language. The unnecessary use of capital letters and phrases in parenthesis, in my opinion, is for no other reason than to present the biases of the translators(whether deliberate or not, who cares, the effect is the same).
In this case the caps perhaps tell us something about the ED view of the translators.
IMO that is what we are seeing
I sent a check in to the address above just over 1 month ago... as of yet it has not been returned to me, nor cashed (and obviously I haven't received the Bible still either)... hoping it comes through, sounds like quite the interesting and enlightening translation (even if perhaps it has an ED bias as some of you suspect - though good point by WhiteWings on Sodom...)
don't give up, they're rather slow...but seem very honest.
Hi, just found the site today. Read the previous posts on this topic. I got my TCB by 1995. I did not think much about it, but decided to find their OLD TESTAMENT. My pastor at the time corresponded with them. Yes, snail mail only. They were to start working on the OT then. Thought it would be a good addition to their NT.
Although I haven't fully searched this out, I've seen it said that Abraham's seed was ["strictly/solely"] Jesus. I don't think I was ever fully comfortable with that interpretation.
Reading in The Christian Bible this morning, I came across the following verses. It seems to me these verses give a pretty good indication of who Abraham's seed is. Seems pretty descriptive to me.
from chapter 7
The God of glory was seen by our father Abraham when he was in
Mesopotamia [E. Iraq], before he made a home in [the city of] Haran [in S.E.
Turkey], 3 and said to him, 'You must come out from your land and your
relatives, and must come on into the land that I shall show you!' [Gen. 12: II.
4 So he then went out of the land of the Chaldeans [from Iraq], and made a
home in [the city of] Haran [in S.E. Turkey]. Then after his father died, God
exiled him from there into this land where you are now making a home;
5 but He didn't give him any inheritance in it, not even enough for a
platform for one foot; and yet He did promise to eventually give it to him
as a holding, and to his seed [descendants] after him, even though he didn't
have a child [Gen: 12:7; 17:81. 6 Yet God spoke like this, that his seed
[descendants] would be foreigners in an alien land, where they would be
enslaved and treated badly for four hundred years [Gen.15:13J. 7 'Then the
nation for which they will slave I will judge' [Gen. 15:141, God said, 'and
after these things they will come out and offer divine service to Me in
this place' [Exo. 3:121. 8
17 "Now as the time of the promise was drawing near that God had
acknowledged to Abraham, the people grew [in number] and multiplied
in Egypt,
I know we've all got a bunch of 'em, but I believe we need to be careful that our private/personal insights don't go around or against what is written. In this whole topic, does someone see something else besides what's written here? (I believe there's a also scrip that says spiritually born again believers are the seed as well?)
Blessings, seed of Abraham. :bigGrin:
Galatians 3:29;
If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
The seed is Christ.
The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ.
--Gal 3:16
6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
9For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.
10And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
--Rom 9
And you, dear brothers and sisters, are children of the promise, just like Isaac.
--Gal 4:28
The new man is the seed
"The new man is the seed"...
"They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed."
"The Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ."
"yet He did promise to eventually give it to him
as a holding, and to his seed [descendants] after him, even though he didn't
have a child [Gen: 12:7; 17:81. 6 Yet God spoke like this, that his seed
[descendants] would be foreigners [PLURAL] in an alien land, where they would be
enslaved and treated badly for four hundred years"
On the surface, these appear to be 4 different statements. Scripture can't contradict, how do you reconcile them? (I'll be thinking about it too :)
the seed is the one new man, yeah its mystery. We are divided in the flesh (if we are children of the flesh), just as we were formerly enemies in our minds. That they may be one as we are one, I in You, You in me, us in them they in eachother, until God is all in all.
Quote from: redhotmagma on February 05, 2012, 03:07:46 AM
the seed is the one new man, yeah its mystery. We are divided in the flesh (if we are children of the flesh), just as we were formerly enemies in our minds. That they may be one as we are one, I in You, You in me, us in them they in eachother, until God is all in all.
Beautiful.
Quote from: JabOn the surface, these appear to be 4 different statements. Scripture can't contradict, how do you reconcile them? (I'll be thinking about it too :)
Not sure why you see it as contradictory. Paul clearly states that we are the descendants of Abraham. Do we come down through a bloodline? Is that where you are seeing the contradiction? I was trying to show how we do on another thread, but nobody wanted to hear it. It really doesn't matter because the seed will always be identified and justified by faith--at all times in history. We, who first believed in Christ [in both the OT and the NT], are all miracle babies, just like Isaac; we are the children of the promise.
That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. Eph 1:12
Quote from: Molly on February 05, 2012, 06:15:26 AM
Not sure why you see it as contradictory.
I'm not saying it
is contradictory. I'm suggesting that to say "the seed is ONE new man", then to say "the seed is ONLY Christ" - but then to say "it's the [thousands/millions of] descendants of Abraham", all
sound like different statements and can
appear contradictory, unless correctly interpreted and understood.
I'm saying "yes, the seed is Christ, because the scripture says so". It even says it's ONLY Christ! But the scriptures also say the seed is other things as well. Abraham's descendantS (Acts 7), then those IN Christ who are spiritually reborn (Gal. 3:29). So perhaps it's a matter of progression? What I mean is, initially it was Abraham's direct descendants. (All the while, the OT was pointing to Christ). Then, Jesus came in flesh as Messiah. Then, those believing. All the seed. Progression, but not
just progression, but also, as rhm said, there's a mystery involved too;
i.e., there can be many things, but all can be incorporated into Christ, really leaving ONLY Him. So that those things (other things called 'seed') aren't really simply what they appear to be (literally), because spiritually ALL comes from, through, and for Him. A mystery.
I'm getting at; when someone says "the seed is Jesus". I want to say "yes, but the scriptures also say the seed is X,Y,Z, so what does that mean?" The above paragraph is about the best
I can do with it right now...
This also
Quote from: Molly on February 05, 2012, 06:15:26 AMthe seed will always be identified and justified by faith--at all times in history. We, who first believed in Christ [in both the OT and the NT], are all miracle babies, just like Isaac; we are the children of the promise.
is a piece of what I'm getting at - and having a hard time explaining. :happygrin:
I don't see it as progression. The ones who knew Jesus in the OT, knew him as well as we do, imo. The only difference is they had to wait for the cross, and for us.
"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad. John 8:56
But, if you look at the x,y, z statements about the seed, as you call them, you can just overlay them on top of each other. It's all talking about the same people, the elect of God.
That's why it has nothing to do with works.
HEBREWS 11
1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2For by it the elders obtained a good report.
3Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
4By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
5By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
6But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
7By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
8By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
9By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
10For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
11Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.
12Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.
13These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
14For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
15And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
16But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
17By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
18Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
19Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
20By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
21By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.
22By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.
23By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.
24By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
25Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
26Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.
27By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.
28Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
29By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.
30By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.
31By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.
32And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:
33Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions.
34Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.
35Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
36And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
37They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
38(Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
39And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
Christ is a many-membered man.
"The" Christ is Jesus.
Quote from: Molly on February 05, 2012, 09:58:40 AM
I don't see it as progression.
Maybe not. Maybe layers, integration, and mystery are better terms.
Jesus became the Christ
...before the foundations of the world the Lamb was slain.
He became the Christ sometime before-before then????
5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
Its a beautiful mystery :o)
Those above versus seem easily understood and not mystery.
"mystery' doesn't mean 'something I cannot understand.'
mystery is a secret that is hidden from those who do not have access to the information for whatever reason, usually implying a special group [good or bad] to whom the secret is revealed.
"mystery"
G3466
μυστήριον
mustērion
moos-tay'-ree-on
From a derivative of μύω muō (to shut the mouth); a secret or "mystery" (through the idea of silence imposed by initiation into religious rites): - mystery.
There is also the mystery of iniquity.
For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way. 2 Thess 2:7
Ummm...ok.
Using your preferred parlance;
Those above versus seem easily understood and not secret.
Obviously it is still secret because not everyone knows the mystery. But, Paul has been instructed by God to reveal the mystery to His saints among the Gentiles.
25Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
26Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
27To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
--Col 1
So, thanks to Paul, it's no longer a secret!
It's no longer a secret to those who know it--[the holy ones of God].
But it is still a secret to those who don't know it.
having eyes but not seeing, having ears but not hearing
(shhh...don't tell him...but me thinks WhiteWings is more divinely inspired than he even realizes himself!)
The beautiful mystery I was referring to is in the first verse- In your relationships, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus.
Everything written in the remaining verses is focused on that first verse
Whatever we know or think we know, we re still in the dark if we don't know how to be as Jesus was with his disciples, toward one another.
Come, take my yoke upon you, learn of me, for I am meek and lowly of heart and you shall find rest.
...and my burden is LIGHT !
Interesting;
John 13:19 From this time on I'm going to speak
to you about it before it shall occur, so that when it does occur, you
might believe that 'I AM' [this is the contracted translation (Isa. 41:4, 47:8) of
God's name in the Old Contract Writings: Yehweh ('l am, was, and will be' Exo. 3:14)].
Quote from: jabcat on August 19, 2012, 04:01:16 AM
Interesting;
John 13:19 From this time on I'm going to speak
to you about it before it shall occur, so that when it does occur, you
might believe that 'I AM' [this is the contracted translation (Isa. 41:4, 47:8) of
God's name in the Old Contract Writings: Yehweh ('l am, was, and will be' Exo. 3:14)].
What part of that do you find interesting?
I don't know that I'd ever seen all this tied together in such a succinct, tight "package"/explanation re 'I AM';
I AM' [this is the contracted translation (Isa. 41:4, 47:8) of
God's name in the Old Contract Writings: Yehweh ('l am, was, and will be' Exo. 3:14)
Quote from: jabcat on August 19, 2012, 04:57:05 AM
I don't know that I'd ever seen all this tied together in such a succinct, tight "package"/explanation re 'I AM';
I AM' [this is the contracted translation (Isa. 41:4, 47:8) of
God's name in the Old Contract Writings: Yehweh ('l am, was, and will be' Exo. 3:14)
You mean moreso than Exodus 3?
13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
14 And God said unto Moses, I AM That I AM: and he said,
Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.He gives Moses the shortcut right there: I AM.
haha. I must not be communicating well today. Great scrip of course. :)
But I mean the whole explanation, including specifically that I AM is the "contracted version" of Yehweh. Perhaps I'd typically thought of "I AM" as sort another title (or "name") for God, not that it actually was an actual transliteration of His name (i.e., that it in essence, was the same name). You know, all those lists for the "names" of God? They're saying this is the same, not another. :2c:
And then again, maybe it was only interesting to me. :laugh:
Yes it is the same name as given in the Old Testament. He's identifying himself as the God of the OT. That's why the Jews sought to kill him for blasphemy.
You're right, it's very interesting and very important
.
The term tetragrammaton (from Greek τετραγράμματον, meaning "four letters")[1][2] refers to the Hebrew theonym YHWH (Hebrew: יהוה). It is derived from a verb that means "to be",[1] and is considered in Judaism to be a proper name of the God of Israel as indicated in the Hebrew Bible.
The most widely accepted pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton (YHWH) is Yahweh, though Jehovah is used in many modern Bibles
Scholars widely propose that the name YHWH is a verb form derived from the Biblical Hebrew triconsonantal root היה (h-y-h) "to be", which has הוה (h-w-h) as a variant form, with a third person masculine y- prefix.[4] It is connected to the passage in Exodus 3:14 in which God gives his name as אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה (Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh), translated most basically as "I am that I am" (or "I Will Be What I Will Be"). יהוה with the vocalization "Yahweh" could theoretically be a hif'il (causative) verb inflection of root HWH, with a meaning something like "he who causes to exist" or "who gives life" (the root idea of the word being "to breathe", and hence, "to live").[5] As a qal (basic stem) verb inflection, it could mean "he who is, who exists".[4]
--Wikipedia
Tell them..... YHWH has sent me unto you.Ex 3:14
:thumbsup:
Interesting (to me :wink1:) is also, the Christian Bible translates a little differently the names of God than most others. For instance, if you look closely, they have Yehweh rather than Yahweh. They also say this about Jesus (my disclaimer - though I like this stuff and think it does have importance, I still don't believe we should "strangle at nats" over it, i.e., insist everyone use the "proper" name or else they're "wrong", etc...'Jesus' is what we have in our language, and IMO, God knows Who we mean - even (especially?) in our thoughts and heart. :2c:). But still, for the sake of interest and discussion, here's what the Christian Bible (purported to be the most literal, accurate translation up to its time [1991]) translators say;
Jesus vs. Yesu: Since the name of our Savior is the name by which
we will be saved, it seems important that we should pronounce it like His
first students did, and not in the corrupted manner that is common today.
The first English Bible to be translated from the Greek (Tyndale's, 1525)
had "Iesu" and "Iesus," while the first edition of the KJV of the Bible
(1611) had "Iesus." Until about the late 1600s "i" and "j" were only
different forms of the same letter; and when this letter was a vowel, it had
either the sound of the "i" in "police" or "pin," while when it was a
consonant, it had the sound of the "y" in "yet." During the 1700s it
became common to separate the two, and to use the "i" for the vowel
sounds, and the "j" for the consonant sound ("yet").
By the early 1800s the "j" had lost its "y" sound and taken on its
present sound, the sound of the soft "g" as in "jet"; and the "y" had lost
its "u" sound ("up") and taken on its present sound, the consonant "i" as
in "yet." So even as late as the 1700s "Iesus" or "Jesus" was pronounced
"Yeh-soos," and not "Gee-zuss" as is popular today.
This name in the Greek has three different spellings, depending
on its case: the nominative case is "Yesus" ("Yeh-soos"); the accusative
case is "Yesun" ("Yeh-soon"); and the vocative, genative, and dative
cases are "Yesu" ("Yeh-sue"). When His first students called to Him,
such as in Mark 10:47, they used the vocative case and said, "Yesu." So
it seems most proper for us to transliterate this name as "Yesu," which is
both the vocative spelling and the root of all three spellings.
In the Old Contract Writings ("Old Testament") God's name in
Hebrew was spelled with four letters (Yodh-He-Waw-He). When using
our alphabet, it is usually transliterated as "YHWH," but since all of
these letters can also be vowels, it could also be transliterated as "IEUE."
Some would say God's name in the Hebrew Writings was "Jehovah" or
"Yahweh," but these are merely ignorant and educated corruptions from
the Masoretic tradition. Notice that the second and fourth letters are the
same; so the literal pronunciation of this word is "ee-eh-oo-eh" and is
best spelled as "Yehweh."
With the coming of His Son to the earth, God revealed that He is our
Savior by means of His Son. Also, by this time Jews had refused to ever
say God's name ("Yehweh") out of fear that they might say His name in
vain. So God modified His name to "Yesu" which in Hebrew means
"Yehweh-Savior," and also gave this name to His Son (see John 17:11-12).
Quote from: Molly on August 19, 2012, 05:40:22 AM
Yes it is the same name as given in the Old Testament. He's identifying himself as the God of the OT. That's why the Jews sought to kill him for blasphemy.
You're right, it's very interesting and very important
.
The term tetragrammaton (from Greek τετραγράμματον, meaning "four letters")[1][2] refers to the Hebrew theonym YHWH (Hebrew: יהוה). It is derived from a verb that means "to be",[1] and is considered in Judaism to be a proper name of the God of Israel as indicated in the Hebrew Bible.
The most widely accepted pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton (YHWH) is Yahweh, though Jehovah is used in many modern Bibles
Scholars widely propose that the name YHWH is a verb form derived from the Biblical Hebrew triconsonantal root היה (h-y-h) "to be", which has הוה (h-w-h) as a variant form, with a third person masculine y- prefix.[4] It is connected to the passage in Exodus 3:14 in which God gives his name as אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה (Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh), translated most basically as "I am that I am" (or "I Will Be What I Will Be"). יהוה with the vocalization "Yahweh" could theoretically be a hif'il (causative) verb inflection of root HWH, with a meaning something like "he who causes to exist" or "who gives life" (the root idea of the word being "to breathe", and hence, "to live").[5] As a qal (basic stem) verb inflection, it could mean "he who is, who exists".[4]
--Wikipedia
Tell them..... YHWH has sent me unto you.Ex 3:14
Molly:
I almost replied to OP, but saw that you were online and just knew that if I waited (listened before speaking) several minutes that between you and Jabcat I would really be blessed. Thanks to both of you. Another dot (DOT!!!!!) for my growing collection.
I know. I noticed they used Yesu from what you have written about it.
This stuff is so complicated, I finally threw up my hands lol. We have the problem of Hebrew to Greek, and even then there was no letter 'J' until the middle ages.
But, I've finally settled for myself on Y'shuah, which means Yah's salvation, or YHWH's salvation, feminine form, for Jesus.
I like it because he places the name of Jesus above every other name. It is, to my mind, his favorite name for himself because of the importance he places on the function of salvation--that is, the cross.
But, you're right. He knows who we are referring to no matter what name we use.
Quote from: goodreport on August 19, 2012, 06:02:34 AM
Quote from: Molly on August 19, 2012, 05:40:22 AM
Yes it is the same name as given in the Old Testament. He's identifying himself as the God of the OT. That's why the Jews sought to kill him for blasphemy.
You're right, it's very interesting and very important
.
The term tetragrammaton (from Greek τετραγράμματον, meaning "four letters")[1][2] refers to the Hebrew theonym YHWH (Hebrew: יהוה). It is derived from a verb that means "to be",[1] and is considered in Judaism to be a proper name of the God of Israel as indicated in the Hebrew Bible.
The most widely accepted pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton (YHWH) is Yahweh, though Jehovah is used in many modern Bibles
Scholars widely propose that the name YHWH is a verb form derived from the Biblical Hebrew triconsonantal root היה (h-y-h) "to be", which has הוה (h-w-h) as a variant form, with a third person masculine y- prefix.[4] It is connected to the passage in Exodus 3:14 in which God gives his name as אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה (Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh), translated most basically as "I am that I am" (or "I Will Be What I Will Be"). יהוה with the vocalization "Yahweh" could theoretically be a hif'il (causative) verb inflection of root HWH, with a meaning something like "he who causes to exist" or "who gives life" (the root idea of the word being "to breathe", and hence, "to live").[5] As a qal (basic stem) verb inflection, it could mean "he who is, who exists".[4]
--Wikipedia
Tell them..... YHWH has sent me unto you.Ex 3:14
Molly:
I almost replied to OP, but saw that you were online and just knew that if I waited (listened before speaking) several minutes that between you and Jabcat I would really be blessed. Thanks to both of you. Another dot (DOT!!!!!) for my growing collection.
wow. Thank you.
[ But, you know, I am always online according to this computer because I never sign off. I am logged on ....
forever. lol
But, that doesn't mean I'm actually here.]
Very interesting stuff here, I didn't know YHWH meant I AM either jab!
I also prefer Y'shuah Moll. Besides the meaning I also just love the sound of it. It has a beautiful sound. Maybe I'll start calling Joshie Yoshua haha.
Another trinity thread... :P
Imo Jesus never said or even remotely implied He's God.
There is a difference between being God and speaking in the name of God.
The OT has several examples of angels calling themselfs I AM in one verse and a few verses later they are called angels.
I've shown that before. Of course it was tactically ignored, but I won't give up :=)
Tell it to the Pharisees, ww--
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM.
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
--John 8
Oh Look--he can make himself invisible, too!
My thoughts on this topic:
????????????
From Romans 16, Christian Bible, a few "mysteries" and a couple of cool proclamations;
19...I want you to be, on the one hand, continually wise in whatever is good; yet, on the other hand, continually unsophisticated in whatever is bad.
20 Now the God of peace will, within a short time, crush Satan under your feet.
25 Now may the One who is able to solidly establish you in
accordance with the Good Message that I bring, even the proclamation
about the Anointed One Yesu, in accordance with the revelation of the
secret that has been kept silent during the times of the past ages [the first
age and earlier in this present age], 26 yet now has been made apparent in
accordance with the requirement of the God of the ages, and through the
Writings of the Prophets, and has been made known to all the pagans
to result in obedience by faith, 27 may God, who alone is wise, be
glorified for the remaining ages through the Anointed One Yesu! Amen ["let it be true"]!
John 8:56
Your father Abraham rejoiced to SEE my day; and he saw it, and was glad.
Hebrews 11:13
These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having SEEN them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them,....
Gen 26:4-5
...and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed
because Abraham heard/obeyed my VOICE
=====================================================
John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am
John 1:1-3
In the beginning was the WORD... All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Gen 1:3,6,9------ God SAID...
John 17:5
And now O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.
v. 24
Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou thou lovedst meBEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD
Quote from: jabcat on August 19, 2012, 01:17:36 PM
From Romans 16, Christian Bible, a few "mysteries" and a couple of cool proclamations;
19...I want you to be, on the one hand, continually wise in whatever is good; yet, on the other hand, continually unsophisticated in whatever is bad.
20 Now the God of peace will, within a short time, crush Satan under your feet.
25 Now may the One who is able to solidly establish you in
accordance with the Good Message that I bring, even the proclamation
about the Anointed One Yesu, in accordance with the revelation of the
secret that has been kept silent during the times of the past ages [the first
age and earlier in this present age], 26 yet now has been made apparent in
accordance with the requirement of the God of the ages, and through the
Writings of the Prophets, and has been made known to all the pagans
to result in obedience by faith, 27 may God, who alone is wise, be
glorified for the remaining ages through the Anointed One Yesu! Amen ["let it be true"]!
19 - don't dwell or practice in evil things
20 - what does "in a short time" mean?
20 - in this context, what does "Satan crushed under your feet" mean?
25 - Jesus kept secret, it was silent under the Law? Yet some "saw" Him and looked for and to Him..does it being kept secret mean, "in general/on the whole"?
26 - after He's been revealed (after the cross), the pagans (us!) are to believe on Him, and in His faith live for Him
27 - God is glorified through His Son
Quote from: Molly on August 19, 2012, 11:03:52 AM
Tell it to the Pharisees, ww--
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
Two answers to that.
1] How old was Jesus? About 30? Or maybe billions of years old? Meaning He already existed long before He was born as a little baby about 2000 years ago. I think we were largely in agreement lots of LORD/Lord verses in the OT are about Jesus.
2] Jesus speaks on behalf of God. Just when you call company XYZ. "Good morning, this is XYZ, how can I be of you assistance?" Actually it's wasn't XYZ speaking but someone speaking of behalf of XYZ.
Quote58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM.
Yep, Father, Son, HS, angels, etc all were present and creation day. So they all were before Abraham
Quote59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
--John 8
Oh Look--he can make himself invisible, too!
Pray and eat your vitamines Molly. And one day you can do the same :-)
Maybe you can even live for ever and be dead for 3 days and night whenever you please.
Radical Reaction.
A handpicked name by HS Himself.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Ahhhhh thanks for the laugh everyone. Hahaha.
Likely there are depths of meaning to the name, but for one I believe it stands for the reaction the girls will have to the good news of God's love for them, and the "radicalness" of the change that will come to their lives once they surrender to Christ.
5 For to which of the Messengers did He say at any time, "You are
My Son; today I have caused You to be born" [Psa. 2:7]? Then again, "I
will be a Father to Him, and He will be a Son to Me" [2Sam. 7:14]? 6 Now
when He again brings the First-born to the inhabited earth, He is going
to say, "Now all the Messengers of God must worship Him!" [Psa. 97:7;
Deu. 32:43]. 7 Now, on the one hand, of the Messengers He says, "He
makes His Messengers into blasts [like wind], and His Attendants into
flames of fire" [Psa.I04:4]; 8 yet, on the other hand, of the Son, "Your
throne, 0 God, is even to the age after this age, and the scepter of
straightness [justice] is the scepter of Your Kingdom. 9 You have loved
whatever is right [and just] and hated whatever is unjust; for this reason
God, Your God, has anointed You with the olive oil of celebration beyond
Your partners" [Psa. 45:6-71. Amen.
Quote from: jabcat on August 25, 2012, 03:36:48 AM
5 For to which of the Messengers did He say at any time, "You are
My Son; today I have caused You to be born" [Psa. 2:7]? Then again, "I
will be a Father to Him, and He will be a Son to Me" [2Sam. 7:14]? 6 Now
when He again brings the First-born to the inhabited earth, He is going
to say, "Now all the Messengers of God must worship Him!" [Psa. 97:7;
Deu. 32:43]. 7 Now, on the one hand, of the Messengers He says, "He
makes His Messengers into blasts [like wind], and His Attendants into
flames of fire" [Psa.I04:4]; 8 yet, on the other hand, of the Son, "Your
throne, 0 God, is even to the age after this age, and the scepter of
straightness [justice] is the scepter of Your Kingdom. 9 You have loved
whatever is right [and just] and hated whatever is unjust; for this reason
God, Your God, has anointed You with the olive oil of celebration beyond
Your partners" [Psa. 45:6-71. Amen.
Thanks for bringing this thread back...
I've been looking at Romans 1 and I really would like to see CB's translation. I'm not in a position currently to purchase anymore books-- so, would you kindly share Romans 1 (yes, I need to see whole chapter) as translated in CB. Thank you.
Sure.
1 This is from Paul, a slave of the Anointed One Yesu, who has
been called to be a dispatched envoy, having been cut off for God's
Good Message, 2 that He promised beforehand through His prophets in
the Pure Writings, 3 about His Son who, according to the flesh, came
from David's seed, 4 and who, according to the Spirit of Purity, was
designated the Son of God with power by His resurrection from among
the dead: Yesu (the Anointed One) our Master, 5 through whom we have
obtained favor and our responsibility of being envoys dispatched so that
there might be obedience to the Faith among all the pagans, on behalf of
His name ["Yesu"], 6 among whom you also are the Called Ones who
belong to Yesu (the Anointed One); 7 to all who are God's dearly loved
ones in Rome, the Called and Pure Ones.
May favor and peace be yours+ from God our Father and the
Master Yesu (the Anointed One)!
8 First of all, I am continually thanking my God through Yesu
(the Anointed One) for all of you, because your faith is continually
being announced throughout the whole world. 9 For God, to whom I am
continually offering divine '~ervice with my spirit by spreading the Good
Message about His Son, is my witness of how I am continually making
mention of you without ceasing, 10 always in my prayers petitioning that
if somehow it is what God wants, that I might now at last be prospered
to come·to you. For am desiringto see you+, so that I might share
some spiritual favor with you, so that you might be solidly established;
12 that is, so that while I am among you, I might be encouraged together
with you+ by means of each other's faith, both yours+ and mine.
13 Now I don't want you to be ignorant, brothers and sisters, that
often I have determined to come to you (and have been prevented even
until now), so that I might have some fruit among you also, just as among
the rest of the pagans. 14 I am a debtor to both Greek-speaking and
non-Greek-speaking people, to both the wise and the foolish; 15 this is
why, for my part, I have this eagerness to spread the Good Message also
to you who are in Rome. 16 For I am not ashamed of the Good Message,
for it is God's power for the Salvation [from Destruction] of everyone
who is continually having faith in it (to the Jew first, and also to the
non-Jew). 17 For in it is revealed God's method for making people right
[and just] before Him, a method that is based on faith and results in faith;
just as it has been written, "Now the person who is just [and right], must
be continually living on the basis of faith!" [Hab. 2:41.
18 For God's anger is being revealed from heaven against all the
lack of devotion and injustice of the humans who are holding back the
Truth by their injustice, 19 since what is known about God is apparent to
them, because God has made it apparent to them. 20 For ever since the
creation of the world, His invisible attributes,· His constant power and
godly nature, have been clearly seen, since they can be comprehended
through the things that He has made, so that they are without a defense.
21 For although they knew God, they didn't glorify Him as God or
give Him thanks; rather, they became involved in their meaningless
reasonings, and their unintelligent hearts became clouded with darkness.
22 Asserting that they were wise, they became stupid, 23 and exchanged
the glory of the nondecaying God for images having the likeness of
things that are subject to decay: humans, birds, four-legged animals, and
reptiles.
24 For this reason God delivered them over to the uncleanliness
that is in the desires of their hearts, to be dishonoring their bodies
among themselves. 25 For they exchanged God's Truth for a lie, and
were devoted to and offered. divine service to the creature rather than
·the Creator, who is blessed for the remaining ages [the present age and the
Last Age]. Amen ["let it be true")!
26 For this reason God delivered them over to dishonorable
passions, so that their females exchanged their natural use for an
unnatural one. 27 Likewise, their males also left the natural use of the
female, and became inflamed in their craving for one another, males with
males practicing acts that aren't respectable, and getting back for themselves
the repayment that they ought to have for their going astray.
28 Now as they didn't approve of continually acknowledging God
fully, God delivered them over to having disapproved minds, to be doing
those things that aren't suitable, 29 being filled with all kinds of injustice,
wickedness, badness, and greed. They are bulging with envy, murder,
conflict, fraud, and bad attitudes. 30 They are gossipers, speakers
against one another, detesters of God, those filled with outrage, proud,
arrogant, inventors of bad things, unpersuadable by their parents,
31 unintelligent, failing to fulfill agreements, without natural affection,
and unmerciful. 32 Although they know full well about God's just
Sentence, that those who are practicing such things deserve Death
[in the Fiery Destruction of the Second Death*], they are not only
continually doing them, but also are continually approving of those who
are practicing them.
Quote from: jabcat on August 25, 2012, 03:52:01 AM
Sure.
1 This is from Paul, a slave of the Anointed One Yesu, who has
been called to be a dispatched envoy, having been cut off for God's
Good Message, 2 that He promised beforehand through His prophets in
the Pure Writings, 3 about His Son who, according to the flesh, came
from David's seed, 4 and who, according to the Spirit of Purity, was
designated the Son of God with power by His resurrection from among
the dead: Yesu (the Anointed One) our Master, 5 through whom we have
obtained favor and our responsibility of being envoys dispatched so that
there might be obedience to the Faith among all the pagans, on behalf of
His name ["Yesu"], 6 among whom you also are the Called Ones who
belong to Yesu (the Anointed One); 7 to all who are God's dearly loved
ones in Rome, the Called and Pure Ones.
May favor and peace be yours+ from God our Father and the
Master Yesu (the Anointed One)!
8 First of all, I am continually thanking my God through Yesu
(the Anointed One) for all of you, because your faith is continually
being announced throughout the whole world. 9 For God, to whom I am
continually offering divine '~ervice with my spirit by spreading the Good
Message about His Son, is my witness of how I am continually making
mention of you without ceasing, 10 always in my prayers petitioning that
if somehow it is what God wants, that I might now at last be prospered
to come·to you. For am desiringto see you+, so that I might share
some spiritual favor with you, so that you might be solidly established;
12 that is, so that while I am among you, I might be encouraged together
with you+ by means of each other's faith, both yours+ and mine.
13 Now I don't want you to be ignorant, brothers and sisters, that
often I have determined to come to you (and have been prevented even
until now), so that I might have some fruit among you also, just as among
the rest of the pagans. 14 I am a debtor to both Greek-speaking and
non-Greek-speaking people, to both the wise and the foolish; 15 this is
why, for my part, I have this eagerness to spread the Good Message also
to you who are in Rome. 16 For I am not ashamed of the Good Message,
for it is God's power for the Salvation [from Destruction] of everyone
who is continually having faith in it (to the Jew first, and also to the
non-Jew). 17 For in it is revealed God's method for making people right
[and just] before Him, a method that is based on faith and results in faith;
just as it has been written, "Now the person who is just [and right], must
be continually living on the basis of faith!" [Hab. 2:41.
18 For God's anger is being revealed from heaven against all the
lack of devotion and injustice of the humans who are holding back the
Truth by their injustice, 19 since what is known about God is apparent to
them, because God has made it apparent to them. 20 For ever since the
creation of the world, His invisible attributes,· His constant power and
godly nature, have been clearly seen, since they can be comprehended
through the things that He has made, so that they are without a defense.
21 For although they knew God, they didn't glorify Him as God or
give Him thanks; rather, they became involved in their meaningless
reasonings, and their unintelligent hearts became clouded with darkness.
22 Asserting that they were wise, they became stupid, 23 and exchanged
the glory of the nondecaying God for images having the likeness of
things that are subject to decay: humans, birds, four-legged animals, and
reptiles.
24 For this reason God delivered them over to the uncleanliness
that is in the desires of their hearts, to be dishonoring their bodies
among themselves. 25 For they exchanged God's Truth for a lie, and
were devoted to and offered. divine service to the creature rather than
·the Creator, who is blessed for the remaining ages [the present age and the
Last Age]. Amen ["let it be true")!
26 For this reason God delivered them over to dishonorable
passions, so that their females exchanged their natural use for an
unnatural one. 27 Likewise, their males also left the natural use of the
female, and became inflamed in their craving for one another, males with
males practicing acts that aren't respectable, and getting back for themselves
the repayment that they ought to have for their going astray.
28 Now as they didn't approve of continually acknowledging God
fully, God delivered them over to having disapproved minds, to be doing
those things that aren't suitable, 29 being filled with all kinds of injustice,
wickedness, badness, and greed. They are bulging with envy, murder,
conflict, fraud, and bad attitudes. 30 They are gossipers, speakers
against one another, detesters of God, those filled with outrage, proud,
arrogant, inventors of bad things, unpersuadable by their parents,
31 unintelligent, failing to fulfill agreements, without natural affection,
and unmerciful. 32 Although they know full well about God's just
Sentence, that those who are practicing such things deserve Death
[in the Fiery Destruction of the Second Death*], they are not only
continually doing them, but also are continually approving of those who
are practicing them.
Thank you! I really like this translation. I may have to re-arrange my spending habits a bit so as to be able to purchase the CB 1991. I was especially interested in verses 17 and 20ff... but reading the whole chapter has thrown more light on a couple of other verses...I'm really happy you posted the whole chapter. Thank you so much.
Quote from: BigRed on January 10, 2012, 12:23:51 AM
Hi, just found the site today. Read the previous posts on this topic. I got my TCB by 1995. I did not think much about it, but decided to find their OLD TESTAMENT. My pastor at the time corresponded with them. Yes, snail mail only. They were to start working on the OT then. Thought it would be a good addition to their NT.
:thumbsup: I wonder if the OT does exist for The Christian Bible..trying to find out.
Are you going to write them James?
Quote from: jabcat on August 28, 2012, 05:38:35 AM
Quote from: BigRed on January 10, 2012, 12:23:51 AM
Hi, just found the site today. Read the previous posts on this topic. I got my TCB by 1995. I did not think much about it, but decided to find their OLD TESTAMENT. My pastor at the time corresponded with them. Yes, snail mail only. They were to start working on the OT then. Thought it would be a good addition to their NT.
:thumbsup: I wonder if the OT does exist for The Christian Bible..trying to find out.
Quote from: WhiteWings on August 28, 2012, 10:31:35 AM
Are you going to write them James?
Thanks guys for all your efforts ... between you two, we should have a CB Old Testament soon!!
I have a great love for the Psalms and am eager to see CB's translation of them.
Ps 92: 1-2 (KJV)
It is a good thing to give thanks unto the Lord, and to sing praises unto thy name, O most High.
To show forth thy lovingkindness in the morning, and thy faithfulness every night.
Letter written, mail tomorrow Lord willing.
16 Hug one another for me with a pure kiss! ..
17 Now I am encouraging you+, brothers and sisters, to be continually
keeping a careful eye out for those who cause dissensions and
obstacles that can cause one to trip by going beyond the teaching that
you have learned. You must also be continually avoiding such people!
18 For such people aren't slaving for our Master the Anointed One, but
for their own bellies; and by their compliments and flattering speech
they are continually and totally enticing the hearts of the innocent. Rm. 16
Quote from: jabcat on August 29, 2012, 10:13:05 PM
16 Hug one another for me with a pure kiss! ..
17 Now I am encouraging you+, brothers and sisters, to be continually
keeping a careful eye out for those who cause dissensions and
obstacles that can cause one to trip by going beyond the teaching that
you have learned. You must also be continually avoiding such people!
18 For such people aren't slaving for our Master the Anointed One, but
for their own bellies; and by their compliments and flattering speech
they are continually and totally enticing the hearts of the innocent. Rm. 16
Interesting translation! Earlier this morning, I wanted to use the word "hug" but someone whose opinion I respect, cautioned me against using it since it's not Scriptural!!! So the CB translates "salute" (KJV) as "hug"??!! I don't like the word "salute", it has too many military connotations. I did check Strongs' and without typing all the information, it seems that "hug" is appropriate.
:)
Letter mailed today inquiring about the OT. I imagine it will be awhile before I hear back. In the meantime, have found nothing definitive about it online. We'll see what they say. :gthumbsup:
I checked about 15 other translations on biblios.com and all of them say things like salute, invoke, greet, etc...only the Christian Bible uses 'hug'. Interesting indeed. I'll say this for them - they're willing to stand alone :)
James, thanks, for the time and effort you're putting into securing a CB OT... Since we won't have power here at our apartment complex most of tomorrow, I won't be able to even type... it's interesting that I who am so "tech challenged" spend so much of my time on my computer... I may just spend a good deal of tomorrow reading the Scriptures (hard copy style)... it may turn out to be a very fruitful day. Again thanks.
Just read your new post. Yes, indeed, there is much to be said about being alone, whether standing, sitting, walking in truth, in love, in spirit....
Quote from: jabcat on August 30, 2012, 02:50:37 AM
I checked about 15 other translations on biblios.com and all of them say things like salute, invoke, greet, etc...only the Christian Bible uses 'hug'. Interesting indeed. I'll say this for them - they're willing to stand alone :)
Dunno about the Jews but I've seen many muslims greeting eachother with a hug/kiss on the cheek. Being neighbors of Israel....
The Judas kiss was a greeting too. A fatal one, but still a, imo, common way of greeting.
GOODREPORT:
I answered your email(s) but they fail to deliver. I/my ISP seems to be on the blacklist of yahoo....
Tony, any of this sound familiar? :laugh:
http://bible-talk.net/index.php?topic=27.0
You mean: So eager to own, yet so impossible to get?
:pointlaugh:
The unfamiliar bit....
Reply #15 on: March 16, 2011, 03:26:24 PM »
I just wanted to update everyone on here and let them know they still exist. I got a reply and they are working on getting their website backup and they are planning on making the Bible in a digital format in the near future as well.
It's already in digital format..... :Whistle:
Reply #24 on: March 23, 2012, 04:46:15 PM »
Not sure why you haven't heard back, just so the above post is aware we sent off and order for $500 dollars or more worth of them. The church I attend loved when I read in class with it and several people wanted to order it... we sent off a big order a few month ago... they replied back and returned our money...
The reason is they are in between publishers and currently don't have any copies to sell... the publisher they were going to has returned Bibles to them in poor quality with missing pages, and missing books... he sent back in the letter they were working on getting a new publisher and once that happened he would contact us so we could resubmit our order.
Quote from: WhiteWings on August 30, 2012, 05:14:11 AM
Quote from: jabcat on August 30, 2012, 02:50:37 AM
I checked about 15 other translations on biblios.com and all of them say things like salute, invoke, greet, etc...only the Christian Bible uses 'hug'. Interesting indeed. I'll say this for them - they're willing to stand alone :)
Dunno about the Jews but I've seen many muslims greeting eachother with a hug/kiss on the cheek. Being neighbors of Israel....
The Judas kiss was a greeting too. A fatal one, but still a, imo, common way of greeting.
GOODREPORT:
I answered your email(s) but they fail to deliver. I/my ISP seems to be on the blacklist of yahoo....
WW I have NO idea about Yahoo's blacklist... I don't have any blacklists... just prayer lists...
Quote from: goodreport on August 30, 2012, 02:31:22 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on August 30, 2012, 05:14:11 AM
Quote from: jabcat on August 30, 2012, 02:50:37 AM
I checked about 15 other translations on biblios.com and all of them say things like salute, invoke, greet, etc...only the Christian Bible uses 'hug'. Interesting indeed. I'll say this for them - they're willing to stand alone :)
Dunno about the Jews but I've seen many muslims greeting eachother with a hug/kiss on the cheek. Being neighbors of Israel....
The Judas kiss was a greeting too. A fatal one, but still a, imo, common way of greeting.
GOODREPORT:
I answered your email(s) but they fail to deliver. I/my ISP seems to be on the blacklist of yahoo....
WW I have NO idea about Yahoo's blacklist... I don't have any blacklists... just prayer lists...
It's something you do
not have control over. I'll try to resend using another account. :-)
And.... prayer lists are bad. It's legalism. Prayers come from the heart :-)
(just kidding)
KJV
John 6:35
And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
What saith The Christian Bible 1991?????
=====
WW my prayer lists are written in my heart...
Hasn't WW sent you the TCB yet goodreport?
Quote from: lomarah on August 30, 2012, 03:17:02 PM
Hasn't WW sent you the TCB yet goodreport?
Oh yes, WW did send TCB... I haven't downloaded it yet... power to this apartment complex will be off shortly for several hours. The friend who helps me with downloading (I'm a bit tech challenged!!) has been away for a few days. WW is not only very gracious, generous with sharing very valuable Scriptural information, he is also very, very timely... quick to respond. Thanks WW!!!
He sure is. :-)
I understand your being tech challenged. For a 28 year old you'd think I should be able to do so much more than I can lol.
Sorry gr, been trying to look it up for you but I'm on my phone and it's not cooperating. One interesting thing about that verse - it says biscuit instead of bread. LOL!
I also have the CLV (OT + NT) for whoever wants it. It's from a public file and formatted for PC.
And for a phone. Seems to works well on the phone. At least I'm told so (I have no phone).
I (very likely) can reformat the TCB for phone use too.
Just beep.
A couple of interesting quotes from The Christian Bible 1991
2 Timothy2:15 You must be diligent to present
yourself approved to God as a worker who has no reason to be ashamed,
continually correctly cutting a straight path through the Word of Truth
[not twisting and misusing the Truth]!
--------------
Hebrews 10:14 For with one offering
He is perfecting for all time those who are going to be purified.
15 Now the Pure Spirit is also testifying to us, for after declaring,
16 "This is the [New] Contract that I will make with them after those
days, says the Master: I'm going to put My laws upon their hearts, and I
will inscribe them upon their minds" [Jer. 31:33], 17 then it was declared,
"and by no means will I remember their wrongdoings and their lawlessnesses
any longer" [Jer. 31:34]. 18 Now where there is forgiveness of these
things, there is no longer any offering for wrongdoing.
Amen.
Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience. For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.(Heb 4:11-13)
You are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read by all men; clearly you are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink but by the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of flesh, that is, of the heart.
And we have such trust through Christ toward God. Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God, who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.(2Co 3:2-6)
2 Timothy2:15 You must be diligent to present
yourself approved to God as a worker who has no reason to be ashamed,
continually correctly cutting a straight path through the Word of Truth
[not twisting and misusing the Truth]!
Everyone thinks they are cutting the straight path, until the straight path cuts them and their crookedness is revealed. The Voice that cries from the wilderness, the Spirit that Prepares the Way of the Lord - through a human heart, a living epistle.
It is impossible to "rightly divide" the word of truth until ones heart has been pierced, "divided asunder soul from spirit, bone from marrow"- by the Sword of the Spirit, the Living Word- because the mind of Christ is only available to those who have in them the same attitude which was in Christ Jesus- a broken and a contrite heart.
"Today if you hear His voice, harden not your hearts....... Let the one who has ears to hear Hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches".
It could be said perhaps that all God's words, works & ways are living and active for the purpose of removing us from a life lived by the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, into a life lived as a tree planted beside the streams of living water, bearing fruit in season, with leaves for the healing of the nations.
Yes John. Such sweet waters
[url]http://iacmusic.com/play2.aspx?songID=54804&source=John%20Myles%20-%20River%20of%20TearsSong%20Page[/url
River of Tears
Romans 3:21 Yet now, apartfrorn the.Law, a method from God for making
people right [and just] before Him is apparent (as the Law and the
Prophets are testifying), · 22 even a method from God for making people
right [and just] before Him by means of their faith in Yesu (the Anointed
One) for all those who are continually having faith; for there is no
distinction; 23 for all have done things that are wrong and are continually
falling behind and in need of glory from God, 24 and are being justified
freely by His favor, through the ransom payment provided by the
Anointed One Yesu. 25 For God determined to have Him be a shelter of
mercy by His blood by means of faith, to display God's rightness [and
justness], because of His passing over of the penalties for wrongdoings
that had been occurring previously during His tolerance; 26 with a view
towards displaying His rightness [and justness] during the current time
period, to show that He Himself is just [and right], and that He is the
Justifier of the person who has faith in Yesu.
The love. The cross. The mercy. Thank you God.
Romans 3 ..are being justified freely by His favor, through the ransom payment provided by the
Anointed One Yesu.
27 So then, where is the boasting? It has been locked out. By means
of what kind of law? Of works? No, but by means of the law of faith.
28 For we are regarding a human to be justified by faith apart from works
of the Law. ..30 since there is one God; and He
will justify those who are circumcised based on their faith, and those who
are uncircumcised by means of their faith. 31 So then, are we nullifying
the Law by means of faith? May it not come to that! No, we are
establishing the Law. -
4:1 So then, what shall we declare that Abraham, our forefather
according to the flesh, has found? 2 For if Abraham was justified on the
basis of his works, he has something to boast about, but not when facing
God. 3 For what does the Writing say? "And Abraham had faith in
God, and it was regarded to him as being right [and just before God]"
[Gen.15:6].
This scripture is LOADED! Israel, gentiles, Law, grace, the importance of scripture, Jesus the Answer and Solution, how all those fit together. Well worth the read. Blessings.
Romans 9:30 So then, what shall we declare? That the pagans who didn't
pursue being right [and just before God], have grabbed hold of it, yet a
rightness [and justness before God] that is based on faith; 31 yet Israel
who did pursue a law of rightness [and justness before God], didn't
overtake such a law. 32 Why? Because they didn't pursue it based on
faith, but as though it was based on works; they stumbled over the Stone
that can cause one to stumble, 33 just as it has been written, "Notice, I
am laying in Zion [the mountaintop city] a Stone that can cause one to
stumble and a Rock that can cause one to trip, but whoever is continually
having faith in Him, won't be put to shame" [Isa. 28:16].
10:1 Brothers and sisters, my heart's delight and my petition to God
for them is for their Salvation [from Destruction]. 2 For I can testify
about them that they have an enthusiasm for God, but not in accordance
with full knowledge [found in the Word]. 3 For being ignorant of God's
method for making people right [and just] before Him, and seeking to
establish their own method for being right [and just], they weren't
subservient to God's method for making people right [and just] before
Him. 4 For the Anointed One is the Law's completion which is resulting
in rightness [and justness before God] for everyone who is continually
having faith.
Update on The Christian Bible Old Testament received in mail today;
"it is a work in progress, there are many roadblocks. Thank you for your interest".
Quote from: jabcat on September 13, 2012, 02:39:30 AM
Update on The Christian Bible Old Testament received in mail today;
"it is a work in progress, there are many roadblocks. Thank you for your interest".
Are the roadbloacks at the start or the end of the road....?
Hopefully not the start because the NT took 10 years to translate.
Somebody needs to go down and visit those people. rofl
You're right Molly. :laugh:
I'm reposting this for a member. With The Christian Bible, the translation is great, but personally, a lot of their [ ] commentary I can do without. Much of it is interesting and helpful however, and I think it's exciting how they nailed this one.
Luke 17:19 "Now there was a certain rich human [symbolic of Judaism], and
he was wearing a reddish-purple coat [symbolic of royalty] and fine linen
[symbolic of being just], having a good time day after day in a dazzling
manner. 20 Now a certain poor person [symbolic of the pagans] named
Lazarus ['God is my help'] had been thrown at his [the rich person's]
entryway, covered with open sores [symbolic of being spiritually unclean];
21 and he continually desired to be satisfied by the things [symbolic-of
spiritual favors] falling from the rich person's table, but even the wild
dogs [symbolic of paganism [Gentiles] ]
were coming and licking his open sores.
22 Now it occurred that the poor person died, and he was carried away
by the Messengers [symbolic of the ones spreading the Good Message about Yesu]
to Abraham's lap [symbolic as the father of the faithful]. Now the rich person
also died and was buried [Judaism died, the Law was no longer in power].
23 Then in the grave, he lifted up his eyes, while existing in tortures [the
Jews no longer had spiritual favors over the pagans [Gentiles] , rather the Christians had the Pure
Spirit], and saw Abraham a distance away, and Lazarus on his lap. 24 So
he shouted out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send
Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue,
because I am in pain in this flame!' 25 Yet Abraham said, 'Child, you
must remember that you got your good things during your life [the time
period of the Law of Moses], and in the same way Lazarus got bad things! Yet
it is a fact that he is being encouraged here [by the Encourager, the Pure
Spirit], yet you are in pain [because Judaism had been deserted, since they deserted
God]. 26 Now in all these things, there has been solidly established a great
canyon between us and you [between faith in Yesu and Judaism], so that those
who want to cross over from here to you, can't do so; nor can those
there even go across to our side to us [Judaism didn't dissolve into Christianity,
but was destroyed by the Romans in 70A.D.].' 27 Yet he said, 'I ask you then,
father, to send him to my father's house; 28 for I have five brothers [the
other ten tribes of Israel], so that he might give testimony to them, so that
they won't also come to this place of torture.' 29 Yet Abraham says,
'They have Moses and the Prophets; they must hear them!' 30 Yet he
said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead [as
Yesu went to the Jews], they will change their thoughts and feelings.' 31 Yet
he said to him, 'If they aren't hearing Moses and the Prophets, neither
will they be persuaded if someone rises up from among the dead.' "
Meat.
Galatians 2:15 We, who are Jews by nature and not pagan wrongdoers,
16 are aware that a human
isn't justified on the basis of works of the Law, but by means of faith in
the Anointed One Yesu. Even we [Jews] have put our faith in the
Anointed One Yesu, so that we might be justified on the basis of faith in
the Anointed One, and not on the basis of works of the Law, because no
flesh at all will be justified on the basis of works of the Law. 17 Now if,
while we are seeking to be justified through union with the Anointed
One, we [Jews] ourselves have also been found to be wrongdoers,
therefore is the Anointed One a dispenser of wrongdoing? May it not
come to that! 18 For if I am building these things up again that I have
demolished, I am commending myself as a person who steps beyond the
boundaries. 19 For by means-of the Law I have become dead to the Law,
so that I might be alive to God. 20 I have been fastened to the Stake
together with the Anointed One, and it is no longer I who is living, but it
is the Anointed One who is living in me. Now the life that I am now
living in flesh, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me, and
delivered Himself over for me. 21 I'm not going to reject God's favor;
for if being right [and just before God] is by means of the Law, therefore
the Anointed One died for nothing."
..whether by living or dying, the Anointed One will
be magnified in my body. 21 For to me, living means the Anointed
One, and death means gain. 22 Yet if to keep on living in flesh
means fruit from my work, I can't even make known which I would
prefer. 23 Yet I am being pressed between the two, as I have a desire to
unloosen [my "tent" (body) to move on (from this world)] and to be together with
the Anointed One (for this is so much better).. Phil. 1
Philippians 2:6 Although He existed inherently in God's form, He didn't think that continuing on an
equality with God was a thing to be forcibly taken; 7 rather, He emptied
Himself, as He took the form of a slave and became like humans. 8Now
when He was found in the temporary form like a human, He humbled
Himself, becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a stake.
Romans 16:25 Now may the One who is able to solidly establish you in accordance with the Good Message that I bring, even the proclamation about the Anointed One Yesu, in accordance with the revelation of the secret that has been kept silent during the times of the past ages, 26 yet now has been made apparent in accordance with the requirement of the God of the ages, and through the
Writings of the Prophets, and has been made known to all the pagans to result in obedience by faith...
I find 1Cor. 15:22 And 1Tim 2:4 very odd in the Christian Bible with it's wording as compared to other translations. And the parenthesizing in CB is some what foreboding, to me anyway. :dsunny:
I think I have read enough at this point to weigh in initially on this version of the bible. So far with only the verses posted by Jabcat I like that it reads like it is aimed at children because most Christians are little children. I would love to give my parents a copy of this and have them read it out loud to each other. I think hearing is way underrated. :banana:
I find it a generally good translation, very simple to read and understand, while I don't believe to be "perfect". It is very literal to the Koine Greek, which they believe was the typical language of the "common man" of the day. I do THINK their translating may lean in places toward annihilation/ED, but that's just my take.
As far as the [ ] - I like the basic informational stuff (i.e., "#0008 Roman coin", or "that was a country that was by the ____ Sea", etc...but I can do without the ones that are their interpretations of what the scriptures mean. :2c:
So certain things just sort of jump out at me through the translation - maybe made clearer than I'd seen before, or seems especially to the point, etc. Those are often the things I post here.
1 Cor. 1:26 For you+ must be continually looking at who you+ are who have received the Call, brothers and sisters, that there aren't many of you+ who are wise according to the flesh, not many who are powerful, not many who are from high class families! 27 Rather, God has chosen those that
the world considers to be stupid, to put those that it considers to be wise to shame; and God has chosen those that the world considers to be weak,to put those that it considers to be strong to shame; 28 and God has chosen those that the world considers to be base and contemptible, even
those that it considers to be nothing, so that He might make those vanish that it considers to be
something...
:gsmile: :gthumbsup: This version reminds me, in a sense, of the Amplified Bible.. in that it digs into the Word and really amplifies it!! I loved how 1 Cor. 1:26 reads! and the rest I've read too.. :Chinscratch: :thumbsup:
Marie, where did you get your copy? :dunno2:
Hi jabcat... I really need to purchase The Christian Bible... but in the meantime, I am interested in their entire Chapter 17 of the Gospel of John... thank you for both: posting the entire Chapter 17 and providing me the information I need to purchase The Christian Bible.
Hi anna...here you go
Christian Bible Society
P. 0. Box 530
Mammoth Spring, AR 72554
John 17:1 Yesu spoke these things, then after He had lifted up His eyes to
heaven, He said, "Father, the hour has come; glorify Your Son, so that the
Son might glorify You, 2 just as You gave Him authority over all flesh,
so that He might give Life in the Last Age to all that You have given to
Him! 3 Now this is Life in the Last Age, that they might know You, the
only true God, and Yesu (the Anointed One) whom You have dispatched.
4 I have glorified You on the earth, having completed the work that You
have given to Me to do; so now, glorify Me at Your side, Father, to the
glory that I was having at Your side before the world existed!
6 "I made Your name ['Yesu'] apparent to the humans whom You
gave Me out of the world. They were Yours, and You gave them to Me,
and they have kept Your Word. 7 Now they have come to know that
everything that You have given to Me, is from You, 8 because the
Declarations that You gave Me, I have given to them; and they accepted
them, and truly knew that I came out from You, and they believed that
You have dispatched Me.
9 "I am asking on their behalf; I'm not asking on the behalf of the
world, but on the behalf of those whom You have given to Me, because
they are Yours; 10 and everything that is Mine, is Yours; and everything
that is Yours, is Mine; and I have been glorified by them. 11 Now I'm not
going to be in the world any longer; but they are in the world, and I am
coming to You. Pure Father, keep them by the power of Your name (the
one that You have given to Me ['Yesu' means 'Yehweh-Savior'*], so that they
might continually be one, just as We are! 12 While I was with them, I was
keeping them by the power of Your name; and I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost,
except the son of destruction [Judas], so that the Writing might be fulfilled
[Psa. 109:8]. 13 Yet it is a fact that I am coming to You, and I am speaking
these things in the world, so that they might have My joy filled full in
themselves.
(*"Yehweh" was God's name in the Old Contract Writings.)
----------------------
14 "I have given Your Word to them; and the world hated them,
because they don't belong to the world, just as I don't belong to the
world. 15 I'm not asking You to take them away out of the world, but to
keep them from the Wicked One [Satan]. 16 They don't belong to the
world, just as I don't belong to the world. 17 Purify them by the Truth;
Your Word is Truth! 18 Just as You have dispatched Me into the world, I
have also dispatched them into the world. 19 So on their behalf I am
purifying Myself, so that they might also be purified by the Truth.
20 "Now I'm not asking only on the behalf of these, but also on the
behalf of those who are continually believing in Me by means of their
word, 21 so that they all might continually be one, just as You, Father, are
in union with Me, and I am in union with You; so that they might also
continually be in union with Us, so that the world might be continually
believing that You have dispatched Me. 22 I have given to them the glory
(the one that You have given to Me), so that they might continually be
one, just as We are one; 23 I am in union with them, and You are in union
with Me, so that they might be completed into one, so that the world
might be continually knowing that You have dispatched Me, and have
loved them, just as You have loved Me. 24 Father, I want these [who are
completed into one group] (the one [group] that you have given to Me) to
also be with Me where I'm going to be [alive in the Last Age], so that they
might be continually gazing at My glory (the one that you have given to
Me, because You loved Me before the foundation of the world). 25 Oh
just Father, although the :world hasn't known You, yet l have known You;
and these have known that You have dispatched Me; 26 and I have made
Your name ['Yesu'] known to them, and I will make it known to them, so
that the love with which You have loved Me, might continually be in
them, and I might continually be in union with them."
Thanks so much Jabcat for the quick reply... and the very neatly typed Chapter 17... and ... do I need to start a Missourian idioms list... "here you go" ???
haha, here you go...now you're goin'...i'm sure there are more
yw :)
1 Corinthians 15:51 Now I am affirming this, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood can't inherit a share in God's Kingdom, nor can what is decaying [the dead body] inherit a share of the condition of never decaying. 51 Notice, I am telling you+ a secret! All of us
[from this age] won't fall asleep [die], yet all of us will be changed in an instant, 52 in a blink of an eye, at the last blowing of the trumpet. For the trumpet will be blown, and the dead will be awakened with bodies that are never going to be subject to decay [to live continually], and we will be changed. 53 For this body that is subject to decay, has to put on, like clothing, what is never going to decay; and this body that is subject to dying, has to put on, like clothing, what is never going to die. '54 Now when this body that is subject to decay puts on, like clothing, what is never going to decay, and this body that is subject to dying puts on, like clothing, what is never going to die, then the word that has been written will occur, "Death has been swallowed up by victory". Amen.
...and "ouch" to me
I Cor. 15:34 If the dead aren't going to be awakened, "let's eat and drink, for tomorrow we are going to die"· [Isa. 22:13; 56:121. 33] You+ must stop being led astray: bad companionships cause the decay of kind habits!
34 You must sober up, as is just [and right]; and must stop doing things that are wrong, for some of you+ are
ignorant about God! I am saying this to turn you around in shame.
Quote from: jabcat on May 10, 2013, 07:22:06 PM
...and "ouch" to me
I Cor. 15:34 If the dead aren't going to be awakened, "let's eat and drink, for tomorrow we are going to die"· [Isa. 22:13; 56:121. 33] You+ must stop being led astray: bad companionships cause the decay of kind habits!
34 You must sober up, as is just [and right]; and must stop doing things that are wrong, for some of you+ are
ignorant about God! I am saying this to turn you around in shame.
talking about "ouch", I had an intense ouch moment earlier.. Since I don't have my Christian Bible yet, I am still checking various other versions. The Message version:
1 Cor 15:34
Think straight. Awaken to the holiness of life. No more playing fast and loose with resurrection facts. Ignorance of God is a luxury you can't afford
in times like these. Aren't you ashamed that you've let this kind of thing go on as long as you have?
in times like these!!! The news on the Internet, TV, newspapers has become so "numbing" that I forget that I am to be an activist on knees.
Not knowing Hebrew or Greek, I need a good Bible (NT, at least) for general reading. And because my eyesight is bad, I need it in a Kindle version with its enlargeable fonts.
I use YLT, but don't like the fact it's based on the Textus Receptus.
I use the CLT-NT with some satisfaction. Their site has the whole NT in web pages. I captured them and created a Kindle version with a table of contents just to the separate books. I would make it generally available, but I guess there are copyright issues.
You should know the CLT translators consider the Godhead to be composed of only the Father and Son. This is reflected in how their translation deals with the Holy Spirit references.
I would be interested in creating a Kindle version of TCB for free if I could get the files in a useable format. As the Web Doctor (http://www.the-web-doctor.com), I would also be glad to build a WordPress site for them for free (they would pay for the domain and hosting to someone else).
Lane
The Holy Twoity, The Holy Unity, The Holy Trinity
When we know as we are known then we will know what we presently can only see through a glass darkly (no matter how much we pound each other with our perspectives and systematic theologies :o)
Translators just cant resist the urge to insert their theology into their translations. Thats why a good interlinear or three and a couple of Lexicons, combined with an understanding that context and Hebrew thought(language and expression) govern proper rendering of the logos of God as expressed through the prophets and apostles and our Lord Himself in the scriptures.
:2c:
Quote from: WhiteWings on August 30, 2012, 05:14:11 AM
I checked about 15 other translations on biblios.com and all of them say things like salute, invoke, greet, etc...only the Christian Bible uses 'hug'. Interesting indeed. I'll say this for them - they're willing to stand alone :)
Dunno about the Jews but I've seen many muslims greeting eachother with a hug/kiss on the cheek. Being neighbors of Israel....
The Judas kiss was a greeting too. A fatal one, but still a, imo, common way of greeting.
A modern version could be something like,
Hugs'n'Kisses BitchesSalute always sounded strange to me for these brothers in love to go around saluting each other. A hug and kiss is not something that most straight men go around and do now so maybe salute was a strategic change to appeal to the masses.
Quote from: FireBobcat on January 09, 2012, 09:29:26 AM
I sent a check in to the address above just over 1 month ago... as of yet it has not been returned to me, nor cashed (and obviously I haven't received the Bible still either)... hoping it comes through, sounds like quite the interesting and enlightening translation (even if perhaps it has an ED bias as some of you suspect - though good point by WhiteWings on Sodom...)
I was wondering if you ever got it. I want to give it a shot as I have searched the whole internet with no luck. It looks like my last hope unless I want to pay over ten thousand dollars. Link: http://www.everytext.com/gp/show_book.php?isbn=9780964582903&ano=2195
Took me over a month to get my copy. They work the old way, by hand. No telling how many requests they get that maybe before you. So one must just wait and even then one could be overlooked. I like it mainly because it uses the word sentient for soul, less confusing for me anyway. :HeartThrob: :dsunny:
Thanks for the info. I'm going to give it a shot.
I see here on an excerpt of The Christian Bible's website preserved on archive.org that it uses the Westcott-Hort base texts for its translation:
http://web.archive.org/web/20050308195836/http://www.christianbiblesociety.org/bible.shtml
You see, the translators were afraid to use any of the recent Greek text compilations (e.g., Westcott-Hort text [1881 A.D.], etc.) and put too much faith in humanity, so they did it the hard way — they went back and duplicated the work of others, by researching and analyzing these three oldest manuscripts.
The only other new testaments I know of that use these base texts are the ASV 1901 and the Ivan Panin Numerics NT as linked in a PDF below. I wonder how similar they are to each other: http://www.ubp1.org/pdf/NENT.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Testament_in_the_Original_Greek
There is some controversy on the matter as well:
http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=westcott-hort+exposed&oq=westcott-hort+exposed&gs_l=serp.3..0i22i30.3470.10958.0.11035.13.11.2.0.0.0.304.1975.0j7j2j1.10.0....0...1c.1.19.psy-ab.HET2w4r4xTs&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&fp=6d757e5a25baa450&biw=1280&bih=648
Here is John 17 from Ivan Panin's Numerics New Testament alongside The Christian Bible. A good comparison since the same greek base texts were used for both translations.
[attachment deleted by admin]
Quote from: micah7:9 on June 30, 2013, 11:49:00 PM
Took me over a month to get my copy. They work the old way, by hand. No telling how many requests they get that maybe before you. So one must just wait and even then one could be overlooked. I like it mainly because it uses the word sentient for soul, less confusing for me anyway. :HeartThrob: :dsunny:
UPDATE...They sent my money back and said they still have issues with the quality of book prints, the computer software, and the website. Also, that I've been put on a list and will be notified when it is available.
A response is better than none at all, I believe they are good and honest folks, you'll get your book. :HeartThrob:
I lived in the area (West Plains - near Mammoth Spring) for eight years. Believe me when I tell you that life moves a little (feels like a lot) more slowly there.
Why my friend, I live right close to them folk about 60 miles, and yes mollasses in winter, is the word and in the humidity now it's even slower. It's been rainin' and can't even fish :( and the river is risin' mama.
Anyway it took me 6 weeks to get my copy. I like it but sometimes I scratch my head, but that's good; what I like the most about it, and I've said it before, they use the word sentient rather than soul which is(imo) much more full of understanding. Man is a soul, man does not have a soul and was not given a soul, but man was given sentient. :dsunny:
I know this topic is REALLY old, but like a few of the others I stumbled across a reference to the CB online and have been looking for more information about obtaining one. Anyone dealt with these people lately or know if they even still exist?
...maybe if it's not in print, it's in digital form for kindle or iphone, would be awesome..
Quote from: PipeGuy82 on January 12, 2016, 07:46:07 PM
I know this topic is REALLY old, but like a few of the others I stumbled across a reference to the CB online and have been looking for more information about obtaining one. Anyone dealt with these people lately or know if they even still exist?
Send a PM to Jabcat he may still have the address I do not have the address, lost :sigh:
?
Christian Bible Society
P. 0. Box 530
Mammoth Spring, AR 72554
the website looks like it's gone..
Quote from: marie glen on January 12, 2016, 09:35:04 PM
?
Christian Bible Society
P. 0. Box 530
Mammoth Spring, AR 72554
the website looks like it's gone..
http://www.arkansasdirectory.co/business/city/profile/mammoth-spring/8308/christian-bible-society/23157086/
http://www.arkansasdirectory.co/business/city/profile/mammoth-spring/8308/christian-bible-society/23157086/ (http://www.arkansasdirectory.co/business/city/profile/mammoth-spring/8308/christian-bible-society/23157086/)
Phone number on here :dsunny: James Hunter / Executive Officer and e mail
thanks for info. like micah I've lost contact with them. I haven't looked at the links yet but hopefully they've updated their info and it's easier to get in touch with them. it's an interesting translation.
Quote from: jabcat on January 13, 2016, 12:33:48 AM
thanks for info. like micah I've lost contact with them. I haven't looked at the links yet but hopefully they've updated their info and it's easier to get in touch with them. it's an interesting translation.
God bless you James !! :HeartThrob: love my google search engine :thumbsup:
Amen! Good job sister Rose! :thumbsup: :smile:
Quote from: marie glen on January 13, 2016, 03:20:36 AM
Amen! Good job sister Rose! :thumbsup: :smile:
Well ya helped a lot sista Marie !! I just used the ol google engine vroom vroom lol : :thumbsup: :dsunny:
Thank you for the info. I actually went back and read every post in this thread and so I saw that the address has been posted on here (several years ago), I just wasn't sure if it was still valid or not and didn't want to just blindly send money into the oblivion. *lol* I will contact the listed email address from the link you posted and try to find out what the current status of the organization is.
Quote from: PipeGuy82 on January 13, 2016, 03:45:09 PM
Thank you for the info. I actually went back and read every post in this thread and so I saw that the address has been posted on here (several years ago), I just wasn't sure if it was still valid or not and didn't want to just blindly send money into the oblivion. *lol* I will contact the listed email address from the link you posted and try to find out what the current status of the organization is.
lol oblivion :laughing7: good one ...
Yes I hope that phone number still works it was pulled up just yesterday , so it is still on the web Pipeguy :)
Blessings , I just wanted to say that if the Holy Spirit is teaching ..
I really believe you can use about any bible and God is still able to get though to you , with that new mind of Christ working :dsunny:
Some could disagree and that is fine by me also :thumbsup:
I for one totally agree! ya just know what is being said..
and for those tricky things, for seeing just how the words were lined up and all, I love my ISA3 program - which brother Tom turned me on to.. haven't seen him around here for a bit..
It's an interlinear and includes the H or G #'s for Strongs or whatnot.. I have a thick head, when it's needed, an interlinear side by side word for word is what I most need..
www.scripture4all.org/download/download_ISA3.php
http://studybible.info/strongs/
Though this Bible version sounds good! :thumbsup: I hope it becomes available! (digital might be easier for them than print? I read that somewhere on some other website..)
Books are better than digital! It may be easier but digital is a direct line to lazy. (my opinion and I know cause it did me)
Way back when...books were in for the same criticism - time was when people memorized large parts of the Bible, and I've read that Druids kept huge amounts of lore by memory alone. They wrote little or nothing down.
Then, there's the story of some Western travelers who hooked up with a teller-of-tales somewhere in the Tibet area. He asked them if they'd like to hear the epic of so-and-so local hero, and would they like to hear the short or long version...? When asked how long it would take for the long version, he replied, "Weeks." It was all there in his head.
:cloud9: Just like the Native Americans who keep their stories and ancestry alive in their heads....
Quote from: Cardinal on January 13, 2016, 08:59:42 PM
:cloud9: Just like the Native Americans who keep their stories and ancestry alive in their heads....
Or, just like the Miao/H'mong people who have handed down the story of Genesis (up to the Tower of Babel) by oral tradition since those days. They even have the names of Genesis characters in a recognizable form.
Quote from: rosered on January 12, 2016, 09:56:38 PM
http://www.arkansasdirectory.co/business/city/profile/mammoth-spring/8308/christian-bible-society/23157086/
http://www.arkansasdirectory.co/business/city/profile/mammoth-spring/8308/christian-bible-society/23157086/ (http://www.arkansasdirectory.co/business/city/profile/mammoth-spring/8308/christian-bible-society/23157086/)
Phone number on here :dsunny: James Hunter / Executive Officer and e mail
Just tried the listed e-mail address and it is not valid. Message returned immediately with an error. :mshrug:
I may still try the phone number if I get a chance (I hate talking on phone), but chances are if the email is no good neither is the phone number.
The above contact information, I might add, lists the "Christian Bible Society" as an organization that does single family housing construction...which makes me further doubt the validity of it for the purpose of obtaining a CB New Testament.
Upon further research and following some pretty small bread crumbs I came across this webpage: http://www.ntwords.com/author.htm (http://www.ntwords.com/author.htm) which mentions the CB and claims it was largely translated by a man named Alan Donaldson (the author spoke as if he knew him personally) and was republished in 1995 by Christian Bible Translators, Inc.
These may or may not be some valuable nuggets of information. I have so far been unable to obtain any additional information about Alan Donaldson OR Christian Bible Translators, Inc.. :BangHead:
The webiste is gone for a long time. It has been a russian dog owner site for a few year....
5 years ago the only way to reach them was by snail mail.
Quote from: WhiteWings on January 14, 2016, 05:31:48 PM
The webiste is gone for a long time. It has been a russian dog owner site for a few year....
5 years ago the only way to reach them was by snail mail.
Yeah, I saw that from the previous posts in this thread. It has been so long NOW, though, that even the Russian dog owner site is apparently out of commission. That original link leads nowhere. The main thing I am trying to ascertain is whether the organization (Christian Bible Society) itself even still exists. If not, then sending money to that address (which is now listed as belonging to a home construction company) seems pretty futile. Also, later in this same thread it seems like the last few people who reported that they sent money to that address never got a response back or else didn't get a Bible.
Quote from: PipeGuy82 on January 14, 2016, 05:05:08 PM
The above contact information, I might add, lists the "Christian Bible Society" as an organization that does single family housing construction...which makes me further doubt the validity of it for the purpose of obtaining a CB New Testament.
:doh: ( :laughing7: )
googling for downloads of a digital version - 1991 or 1995 - as you probably already know brings up nothing promising.. unless it's buried on search page 47 or something... but I think ,most relevant comes up on 1st page.. so.. :Chinscratch: sure is a pickle.. and a shame..
I called the number on the yellow page site it has been disconnected :sigh:
Tried and gave it our best shot so sorry pipeGuy :friendstu:
Thanks Marie :thumbsup:
Grace & Peace to all brothers and sisters, I recently became so interested in the Christian Bible and I'm hoping that they are still in business somehow, if anybody knows any information I would love your help! May the Lord, bless you all and the Holy Spirit guide your hearts forever! God Bless!
I had this version bible once, but I didn't care for it.. it used 'hell' and some other things.. at least the one I had, did.. http://qbible.com/aramaic-new-testament/ (Pe$hitta Aramaic , haha, it changed Pe$hitta to Pecrapta)
I have a "Bible Hub" app on my phone which I actually like better than any other I use online.. The Strong's concordances I have, very large books, I'm not all that crazy about.. The online versions seem to have depth and list the Strong's but also Thayer.. etc, etc..
But the Bible Hub app, is my favorite.. works simply.. is interlinear with the Greek and Hebrew numbers with the links to the concordant meanings/renderings.
I use this a lot - http://qbible.com/ylt-youngs-literal-translation-1898/ - compliments of brother WhiteWings.. When looking up a verse, there's a "strongs" tab which has the interlinear with links to the Greek and Hebrew words..
All great "helps" to go along with context, cross references, and the Holy Spirit's giving light.. Or that is, helps when context, cross-references and the Holy Spirit's giving light doesn't seem to answer all questions.. or doesn't seem to nail it down.
:girlheart:
great bible app for android: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.riversoft.android.mysword