Eternity

[micah7:9]

The word "eternity" is only used once in the entire Bible [ Isa. 57:15] Yet much is said of eternity in many disccusions, its lenght or its lengthlessness. Just what is eternity?
Isa 57:15 For thus says Yahweh, high and lifted up, who tabernacles the future, and holy is His name:"In the high and holy place am I tabernacling, and with the crushed and lowly spirit, to preserve alive the spirit of the lowly, and to preserve alive the heart of the crushed."(CLV)
Isa 57:15  For, thus, saith he that is high and lifted up—Inhabiting futurity, And, holy, is his name: A high and holy place, will I inhabit, Also with the crushed and lowly in spirit, To revive the spirit of the lowly, and To revive the heart of them who are crushed;— (Rotherham)
Isa 57:15  For thus said the high and exalted One, Inhabiting eternity, and holy is His name: `In the high and holy place I dwell, And with the bruised and humble of spirit, To revive the spirit of the humble, And to revive the heart of bruised ones,'
Isa 57:15  For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy: I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite. (ASV)

[micah7:9]

It is my thought as of late, that eternity is not what I thought it to be. I had always been taught that eternity was a realm of no time. Why?  I felt and read that God created time just for this creation.

[Beloved Servant]

Doesn't Paul call things temporary and "for the occasion."

[micah7:9]

Yes
2Co 4:18

(ASV)  while we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

(CLV) at our not noting what is being observed, but what is not being observed, for what is being observed is temporary, yet what is not being observed is eonian."

(KJV)  While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

(Rotherham)  So long as we are not looking out for the visible things, but for the invisible; for, the visible things, are temporary, whereas, the invisible, are age-abiding.

(RYLT-NT)  we not looking to the things seen, but to the things not seen; for the things seen are temporary, but the things not seen are age-during.

(WNT)  while we look not at things seen, but things unseen; for things seen are temporary, but things unseen are eternal.

(YLT)  we not looking to the things seen, but to the things not seen; for the things seen are temporary, but the things not seen are age-during.

[Molly]

Are we just at the beginning?  The ages are never going to end.

Ephesians 3:21
Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. [aion aion]  Amen.

[micah7:9]

Are we just at the beginning?  The ages are never going to end.

Ephesians 3:21
Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. [aion aion]  Amen.

Understood. the question is about eternity, not ages.

[Molly]

Are we just at the beginning?  The ages are never going to end.

Ephesians 3:21
Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. [aion aion]  Amen.

Understood. the question is about eternity, not ages.

You asked, what is eternity?  So I gave you my answer, neverending ages--world without end, ages in perpetuity.

"eternity" [Isa 57:15]
H5703
עד
‛ad
ad
From H5710; properly a (peremptory) terminus, that is, (by implication) duration, in the sense of perpetuity (substantially as a noun, either with or without a preposition): - eternity, ever (-lasting, -more), old, perpetually, + world without end.

[micah7:9]

Thank you.

Is there time in eternity?

[Molly]

Thank you.

Is there time in eternity?

Yes, within the ages, there is time--a beginning, a middle, and an end of the age.  Then on to the next--in perpetuity, where there is no time.

And we get to watch it all--as God's plan unfolds from one age to the next!

[Molly]

Psalm 90:2
Before the mountains were born Or You gave birth to the earth and the world, Even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God.

"from"
H4480
מנּי    מנּי    מן
min  minnı̂y  minnêy
min, min-nee', min-nay'
For H4482; properly a part of; hence (prepositionally), from or out of in many senses: - above, after, among, at, because of, by (reason of), from (among), in, X neither, X nor, (out) of, over, since, X then, through, X whether, with.


"everlasting"
H5769
עלם    עולם
‛ôlâm  ‛ôlâm
o-lawm', o-lawm'
From H5956; properly concealed, that is, the vanishing point; generally time out of mind (past or future), that is, (practically) eternity; frequentative adverbially (especially with prepositional prefix) always: - always (-s), ancient (time), any more, continuance, eternal, (for, [n-]) ever (-lasting, -more, of old), lasting, long (time), (of) old (time), perpetual, at any time, (beginning of the) world (+ without end). Compare H5331, H5703.


"to"

H5704
עד
‛ad
ad
Properly the same as H5703 (used as a preposition, adverb or conjugation; especially with a preposition); as far (or long, or much) as, whether of space (even unto) or time (during, while, until) or degree (equally with): - against, and, as, at, before, by (that), even (to), for (-asmuch as), [hither-] to, + how long, into, as long (much) as, (so) that, till, toward, until, when, while, (+ as) yet.

H5703
עד
‛ad
ad
From H5710; properly a (peremptory) terminus, that is, (by implication) duration, in the sense of perpetuity (substantially as a noun, either with or without a preposition): - eternity, ever (-lasting, -more), old, perpetually, + world without end.

"everlasting"
H5769
עלם    עולם
‛ôlâm  ‛ôlâm
o-lawm', o-lawm'
From H5956; properly concealed, that is, the vanishing point; generally time out of mind (past or future), that is, (practically) eternity; frequentative adverbially (especially with prepositional prefix) always: - always (-s), ancient (time), any more, continuance, eternal, (for, [n-]) ever (-lasting, -more, of old), lasting, long (time), (of) old (time), perpetual, at any time, (beginning of the) world (+ without end). Compare H5331, H5703.



eternally from eternity to eternity

Is that enough time for everyone?

[micah7:9]

Thank you.

Is there time in eternity?

Yes, within the ages, there is time--a beginning, a middle, and an end of the age.  Then on to the next--in perpetuity, where there is no time.

And we get to watch it all--as God's plan unfolds from one age to the next!

How does it "unfold" without time? Its an unfolding a happening of tijme?

[Molly]

Ecclesiastes 3:11
He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the human heart; yet no one can fathom what God has done from beginning to end.


"eternity"

H5769
עלם    עולם
‛ôlâm  ‛ôlâm
o-lawm', o-lawm'
From H5956; properly concealed, that is, the vanishing point; generally time out of mind (past or future), that is, (practically) eternity; frequentative adverbially (especially with prepositional prefix) always: - always (-s), ancient (time), any more, continuance, eternal, (for, [n-]) ever (-lasting, -more, of old), lasting, long (time), (of) old (time), perpetual, at any time, (beginning of the) world (+ without end). Compare H5331, H5703.


H5956
עלם
‛âlam
aw-lam'
A primitive root; to veil from sight, that is, conceal (literally or figuratively): -  X any ways, blind, dissembler, hide (self), secret (thing).



He uses time to blind man and conceal his plans.  This gives eternity a frame of reference that man can deal with--there's a big election tomorrow, for those who are watching it, it seems an eternity before we get the results.  So, the focus becomes the immediate--even if it is a 30 year plan, or 100 year plan, it is still the world as it is now that is the focus.

But, God's plan covers min olam ad olam, something that is so vast we cannot even conceive it.  He feeds us the eternities, the ages, in bite size pieces of time, until we are able to consume more...


26 the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the saints.

--Col 1

[willieH]

willieH: Hi Molly...  :cloud9:

Thank you.

Is there time in eternity?

Yes, within the ages, there is time--a beginning, a middle, and an end of the age.  Then on to the next--in perpetuity, where there is no time.

And we get to watch it all--as God's plan unfolds from one age to the next!

FIRST --- (no offense, Molly) but this statement is contradictory...  You say that AGES stretch into "perpetuity" in which "there is NO TIME"

How can there be NO TIME, when the AGES themselves (according to you) CONSIST of it?  :Chinscratch:

SECOND --- Another flaw in this observation (as I see it) is your indication of AGES having a BEGINNING...  If ETERNITY (according to you), is indeed composed of "AGES", and ALL "AGES" have a beginning (and end), then YHVH must needs have a BEGINNING as well... for HE inhabits ETERNITY, as Micah has noted in Isaiah 57:15

SO, according to you, and your observation of  Isaiah 57:15 --- His "habitation" constitutes having a BEGINNING (for each AGE according to you has a BEGINNING), then either YHVH preceeded the FIRST AGE (whenever that was), and was without a setting of "HABITATION" (which means without His OCCUPATION)...  How could GOD possibly BE, ...without a "setting" in which to ...BE, and therefore "INHABIT"?

in·hab·it verb \in-ˈha-bət\
Definition of INHABIT
transitive verb
1: to occupy as a place of settled residence or habitat : live in <inhabit a small house>
2: to be present in or occupy in any manner or form <the human beings who inhabit this tale — Al Newman>



in·hab·i·tant noun \in-ˈha-bə-tənt\
Definition of INHABITANT
: one that occupies a particular place regularly, routinely, or for a period of time <inhabitants of large cities> <the tapeworm is an inhabitant of the intestine>

As I see it... there is only one observation that can be made by MEN of GOD's -- "Habitation" -- that lies in TRUTH, ...and that is, that it exists BEYOND our view and present existence AS WELL AS our ability to OBSERVE, 

A "habitation" that is WITHOUT BEGINNING or END... 2 ASPECTS that both -- "TIME" and "AGES" -- contain... and which WE are amidst.  :dontknow:

...willieH  :happygrin:

[willieH]

willieH: Hi Molly...  :cloud9:

Psalm 90:2
Before the mountains were born Or You gave birth to the earth and the world, Even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God.

"from"
H4480
מנּי    מנּי    מן
min  minnı̂y  minnêy
min, min-nee', min-nay'
For H4482; properly a part of; hence (prepositionally), from or out of in many senses: - above, after, among, at, because of, by (reason of), from (among), in, X neither, X nor, (out) of, over, since, X then, through, X whether, with.


"everlasting"
H5769
עלם    עולם
‛ôlâm  ‛ôlâm
o-lawm', o-lawm'
From H5956; properly concealed, that is, the vanishing point; generally time out of mind (past or future), that is, (practically) eternity; frequentative adverbially (especially with prepositional prefix) always: - always (-s), ancient (time), any more, continuance, eternal, (for, [n-]) ever (-lasting, -more, of old), lasting, long (time), (of) old (time), perpetual, at any time, (beginning of the) world (+ without end). Compare H5331, H5703.


"to"

H5704
עד
‛ad
ad
Properly the same as H5703 (used as a preposition, adverb or conjugation; especially with a preposition); as far (or long, or much) as, whether of space (even unto) or time (during, while, until) or degree (equally with): - against, and, as, at, before, by (that), even (to), for (-asmuch as), [hither-] to, + how long, into, as long (much) as, (so) that, till, toward, until, when, while, (+ as) yet.

H5703
עד
‛ad
ad
From H5710; properly a (peremptory) terminus, that is, (by implication) duration, in the sense of perpetuity (substantially as a noun, either with or without a preposition): - eternity, ever (-lasting, -more), old, perpetually, + world without end.

"everlasting"
H5769
עלם    עולם
‛ôlâm  ‛ôlâm
o-lawm', o-lawm'
From H5956; properly concealed, that is, the vanishing point; generally time out of mind (past or future), that is, (practically) eternity; frequentative adverbially (especially with prepositional prefix) always: - always (-s), ancient (time), any more, continuance, eternal, (for, [n-]) ever (-lasting, -more, of old), lasting, long (time), (of) old (time), perpetual, at any time, (beginning of the) world (+ without end). Compare H5331, H5703.



eternally from eternity to eternity

Is that enough time for everyone?

More contradictory words... How can ETERNITY (as you noted in a previous post) have "enough time" when you defined ETERNITY as a scenario which has -- NO "TIME"?

Yes, within the ages, there is time--a beginning, a middle, and an end of the age.  Then on to the next--in perpetuity, where there is no time.

And we get to watch it all--as God's plan unfolds from one age to the next!

The words "from EVERLASTING" to "EVERLASTING" does not suggest "multiple" ..."everlastings"!  :mnah:

It suggests that EVERLASTING is the place from which TIME emerged, and to which it returns... the SAME "everlasting"... not "another" one...

If something is considered as "EVERLASTING", then it cannot have a point of "generation" or beginning, because that in itself defeats the words "EVER --- LASTING"...  :dontknow:

The point in which TIME began its "circlular journey"... ends in the  very same PLACE (where) it began -- in THE "EVERLASTING"... which awaited TIME (and the entire CONTENTS of TIME) to complete its journey...  :nod:

EVERLASTING is not the circle [time] (which WAS NOT existent before the journey BEGAN) the circle [time] emerged from EVERLASTING and returns to IT...   :winkgrin:

...willieH  :bgdance:

[thinktank]

I once asked  God about 2 days ago about the concept of eternity and he said to me

"imagine a circle, the begining and end of it, completes one cycle"

So I said "So is there an end to eternity, do you go once around the circle, and then start over again?

"Imagine the circle expanding at a constant rate, so wherever you place a spot on that circle, there will allways be more in existence, so in effect there is no end to eternity, but yet there is a begining and an end, for I am the alpha and omega"

It's probably more complex than that, but I think that's a genius explanation from God  :bigGrin:

[willieH]

willieH: Hi Micah... :hithere:

Thank you.

Is there time in eternity?

In a word, ...NO... :mnah: 

TIME is a creation that is necessary in the depiction of the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL... for within the REVELATION OF IT, ...was TIME created... a LIVING "classroom" if you will...  :happygrin:

TIME is a scenario encased in MOVEMENT (which is in TURMOIL/MOTION, and which is NOT at PEACE)... 

CHRIST came amidst TIME and MADE PEACE (by the blood of His Cross) within it... prior to His entering into it (time), there was NO PEACE, for PEACE had not yet, been "MADE" -- Col 1:20

ALL things within TIME, decay, and is the TOOL of CORRUPTION for ALL CORRUPTION finds itself within TIME... CHRIST was resurrected before the CORRUPTING parameters of TIME, produced DECAY in His body -- Psalm 16:10 -- Acts 13:35 -- Acts 2:31

YHVH (who INHABITS ETERNITY) demands that we be STILL in order to KNOW (gain truthful understanding) that He is GOD -- Psalm 46:10 -- for only in STILLNESS can He be percieved in TRUTH...

In the JUDGMENT of YHVH  which brings forth RIGHTEOUSNESS -- Isaiah 26:9 -- is STILLNESS found -- Psalm 76:8 -- TIME is NEVER "STILL"... it is ALWAYS (during its existence), ...in MOTION.

Just like LOVE exceeds KNOWLEDGE -- Eph 3:19 -- so does ETERNITY exceed TIME...

The FULLNESS of GOD, completely exceeds the FINITE experience... :nod:

...willieH  :cloud9:

[micah7:9]

Thanks WillieH, that was great. Gives me more to look into.  :thumbsup:

[Molly]

very nice, WillieH. :thumbsup:

now I have to figure out what you just said. :happygrin:

I especially liked what you said about Christ--if I understood it.

[Molly]

TIME is a creation that is necessary in the depiction of the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL... for within the REVELATION OF IT, ...was TIME created... a LIVING "classroom" if you will... 

TIME is a scenario encased in MOVEMENT (which is in TURMOIL/MOTION, and which is NOT at PEACE)... 

This right here is really interesting.  It would explain why we are not given details of how long Adam was in the garden or how old when he left.  The time in the garden would be timeless?

But the thought  that time is a by product of them eating from the forbidden tree--that is profound.  Is this when he set olam in their hearts?  Now we have a time for everything, and there is nothing new under the sun--all is vanity.





1 There is a time for everything,
   and a season for every activity under the heavens:
2 a time to be born and a time to die,
   a time to plant and a time to uproot,
3 a time to kill and a time to heal,
   a time to tear down and a time to build,
4 a time to weep and a time to laugh,
   a time to mourn and a time to dance,
5 a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them,
   a time to embrace and a time to refrain from embracing,
6 a time to search and a time to give up,
   a time to keep and a time to throw away,
7 a time to tear and a time to mend,
   a time to be silent and a time to speak,
8 a time to love and a time to hate,
   a time for war and a time for peace.

9 What do workers gain from their toil? 10 I have seen the burden God has laid on the human race. 11 He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the human heart; yet no one can fathom what God has done from beginning to end. 12 I know that there is nothing better for people than to be happy and to do good while they live. 13 That each of them may eat and drink, and find satisfaction in all their toil—this is the gift of God. 14 I know that everything God does will endure forever; nothing can be added to it and nothing taken from it. God does it so that people will fear him.

15 Whatever is has already been,
   and what will be has been before;
   and God will call the past to account.

16 And I saw something else under the sun:

   In the place of judgment—wickedness was there,
   in the place of justice—wickedness was there.

17 I said to myself,

   "God will bring into judgment
   both the righteous and the wicked,
for there will be a time for every activity,
   a time to judge every deed."

18 I also said to myself, "As for humans, God tests them so that they may see that they are like the animals. 19 Surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; humans have no advantage over animals. Everything is meaningless. 20 All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return. 21 Who knows if the human spirit rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?"

22 So I saw that there is nothing better for a person than to enjoy their work, because that is their lot. For who can bring them to see what will happen after them?

--Ecc 3

[Molly]

More contradictory words... How can ETERNITY (as you noted in a previous post) have "enough time" when you defined ETERNITY as a scenario which has -- NO "TIME"?

I was just looking at the words.  Olam, ad, age.  Eternity is 'timeless.'

If eternity does not include time, then it just is--I AM.

But, if you string pieces of time anywhere inside eternity--how did Vonnegut put it?--like bugs in amber?  --then you string them together and you can have a beginning, a middle, and an end--or a middle, a beginning, a middle,  and an end--however you choose--but you get a story and a history.

The word for eternity--


H5703
עד
‛ad
ad
From H5710; properly a (peremptory) terminus, that is, (by implication) duration, in the sense of perpetuity (substantially as a noun, either with or without a preposition): - eternity, ever (-lasting, -more), old, perpetually, + world without end.

and its root--

H5710
עדה
‛âdâh
aw-daw'
A primitive root; to advance, that is, pass on or continue; causatively to remove; specifically to bedeck (that is, bring an ornament upon): - adorn, deck (self), pass by, take away.


He is also the God of the ages, who is, and was, and will be.

The ages are the jewels of eternity?

Time is the jewel of timelessness?

[Lefein]

Perhaps "eternity" doesn't have anything to do with time at all, but instead with a quality of existence beyond linear measurements entirely.

A sphere is like a circle, but of an entirely better, and loftier quality dimension-wise than the circle.

You can't compare a circle to a sphere, only so far as their shape from one perspective.  But if you turn a circle, and turn a sphere...they lose alot of their comparability.

So too, is Time, and Eternity like a circle, and sphere.  Comparable in one sense of shape, and one perspective, but entirely incomparable otherwise.

[micah7:9]

I was just going to ask isnt eternity mistranslated?  Shouldnt it be Isa 57:15  For, thus, saith he that is high and lifted up—Inhabiting futurity,? Then the whole idea of what man calls eternity would not enter in?

[willieH]

"Imagine the circle expanding at a constant rate, so wherever you place a spot on that circle, there will allways be more in existence, so in effect there is no end to eternity, but yet there is a begining and an end, for I am the alpha and omega"

It's probably more complex than that, but I think that's a genius explanation from God  :bigGrin:

Actually there is NO BEGINNING concerning GOD or ETERNITY...

The ALPHA (beginning) and OMEGA (ending) represent GOD as being the BEGINNING (first cause) and ENDING (conclusion) of all things which HAVE beginnings and endings...

GOD Himself, and His WORD are known to be "after the order of Melchizidek"... WITHOUT beginning of days or end of life...  WITHOUT "geneology" (which presents BEGINNING), a designation of another PRIOR to oneself -- Heb 7:3

If EVERYTHING emerged from GOD (and it did)... then HE preceeded ALL of IT...  Because He preceeded, certainly does not designate that He -- (1) -- has THEIR characteristics or -- (2) -- is subject to the parameters that the "emergents" are subject to...  :dontknow:

(Try, if you will, ...to "tune in" on the following)...

GOD "inhabits" the PRAISE of His people -- Psalm 22:3 -- and PRAISE of Him has been going on FOREVER... For ALL of the SONS of GOD, have praised Him and were praising Him at the foundation of the WORLD (before TIME appeared) -- Job 38:6-7

And, ...IN HEAVEN (which is the ETERNAL setting) are "MUCH PEOPLE" (I believe this "much people" depicts ALL men which one by one (AS they are REVEALED by the WORD in this realm, and are traversing TIME) seen praising Him -- Rev 19:1-5  :boogie:

GLORY is praise... and it is FOREVER (always present) -- Rev 1:5 -- there ...IS... NEVER an instance or moment, in which YHVH is NOT PRAISED (for He is UNCHANGING), nor has there ever been, or ever "WILL BE"...

GOD is an UNCHANGING entity -- Mal 3:6 -- so anything He "INHABITS", ...He has ALWAYS "inhabited"...  :dontknow:

Furthermore, ...if GOD "inhabits" the PRAISES of His people, then those "people" (which are HIS), have ALWAYS BEEN His, and have ALWAYS BEEN, ...His "habitation"... 

That we cannot (in this life) recall this, is our SIN, actively separating us from the rememberance of that "praise".

...willieH  :cloud9:

[Molly]

wow.  Another great post, WillieH, --if only I could understand it. :winkgrin:


Furthermore, ...if GOD "inhabits" the PRAISES of His people, then those "people" (which are HIS), have ALWAYS BEEN His, and have ALWAYS BEEN, ...His "habitation"... 

[Lefein]

Well micah, possibly.  But if the word for "eternity" is being translated from Olam, then I think what we are dealing with is not something that is a matter of futurity, but a quality of dimensional existence that on occasion includes time.

Hence my sphere example.

You see, most people want to attribute Eternity as endlessness without beginning or end, this is true in a sense, it is one of the aspects of something that is "Eternal", but they wrongly (or assumptively rather) still compare it almost as the antithesis or polar opposite of Temporality, of which is only a single part of what Olam really is (from my understanding).

Olam is the three dimensional sphere, and measurable time, even the endless 'no beginning or end' measurement (a measurement of infinity is still a measurement) is but a single part of it, it is only one dimension of Olam.

A sphere has width, height, volume, and also time (in the case of an existing thing in Reality, not just a theoretical polygon).

God if I can say so in my limited understanding, has a timeline also, his time is just different from ours because his time is measured in infinity, and is not bound to a linear continuum like ours.

God exists in point A, B, C, Blue, Zebra, and Haggledoogle, while we are always going from A, to B, to C, and cannot go back to A, or B, or C, all we have is the present, but God has endlessness and everytime.

That being said, there is much more to the sphere that is Olam/Eternity than mere time.  There is the quality of its other dimensions, and its consistency from every angle, and its never changing, but infinitely unique forever newly-manifesting beauty.

If you take a circle and you turn it around, you find that it is flat, a disc, and well..you can only look at the top, or the bottom, and it is inconsistent, changing, and odd.  Limited if you will.  It has only two dimensions, three if you could Time.

But the sphere, you can turn it around in every direction, and it will always be a sphere.  But the depth, and volume, and beauty of a sphere is infinite compared to the flat limited shape of a circle, even with or if time involved.

I suspect that what we need translation wise, is a word that isn't rooted in a concept of time, but is instead rooted in a concept of dimensional quality.