Day Star

[Molly]

 29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

--Rom 1



Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray.  He who does what is right is righteous.  He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning...This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are:  Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother....1 John 3: 7-8,10  .

[micah7:9]

oy yeah..they were bearing the image of the corrupt one,alright...the bastard reprobate satan's very image

    are you really really sure this is what you want to do? Defend satan and put all the blame on man?...Man is disciplined over it,for sure, and

  appointed to die ONCE.. then the Judgement/with mercy and free gift of righteousness.BUT THERE ARE THOSE WHO ARE TWICE DEAD

Just when did begin think that The Lord made an error it how His Creation would manifest? and I am NOT defending the adversary. There is no "blame" to put on anyone.

OOPS! I just noticed what I was about to do, I was touching on one of the taboo, sorry. :sigh:

[thinktank]

I don't see freedom as error.

I have heard that the original sin was envy. That the devil was envious of Gods power.

Is it Gods fault if He does not let any created being, be stronger then He?

[Molly]

God can save them OR give them over.

God gave them over to a reprobate mind...

"gave them over"

G3860
παραδίδωμι
paradidōmi
par-ad-id'-o-mee
From G3844 and G1325; to surrender, that is, yield up, intrust, transmit: - betray, bring forth, cast, commit, deliver (up), give (over, up), hazard, put in prison, recommend.

[to a reprobate]

"mind"
G3563
νοῦς
nous
nooce
Probably from the base of G1097; the intellect, that is, mind (divine or human; in thought, feeling, or will); by implication meaning: - mind, understanding. Compare G5590.


I don't think this is talking about their own minds.
I believe God is handing them over to a divine intellect here,-- he who was a murderer and sinner from the beginning, that is, the devil.  This is happening on a supernatural level.

But we have the mind of Christ.

[sheila]

2 Thess 2;7

     FOR THE SECRET POWER OF LAWLESSNESS IS ALREADY AT WORK,BUT THE ONE WHO NOW HOLDS IT BACK.....WILL DO SO

    TIL HE IS TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY...........AND THEN.....THE LAWLESS ONE....WILL BE REVEALED,

   WHOM THE LORD JESUS WILL OVERTHROW WITH THE BREATH OF HIS MOUTH,AND DESTROY WITH THE SPLENDOR OF HIS COMING

    Now, when Jerusalem was desolated...those that rejected Christ had a powerful delusion there at the temple  v10-12 

   THEY PERISH BECAUSE THEY REFUSE TO LOVE THE TRUTH[if you were of God,you would love me]

        the 'SECRET' power of lawlessness is what I AM TRYING TO EXPOUND TO YOU...it is the very operation of demonic deceiving spirits

   DO YOU KNOW THE POWER OF THESE THINGS TO INCITE LUST IN MEN....did you ever have an awakening at night of lust aroused in you?

   DO YOU THINK YOUR BODY HAS A MIND OF IT"S OWN?  DO YOU KNOW WHAT PUT UNDER COMPULSION MEANS? DO YOU KNOW WHAT SINS LAW IS?

    THERE IS NO ERROR...HE EVEN CREATED THE WICKED ONE FOR DESTRUCTION...and man has bore that image,and paid the cost in suffering and death

     if there is no blame..then why a JUDGEMENT AT ALL...if there is no accountability then why the reap what you sow principle?


     WAS IT ALL IN HIS GRAND DESIGN,YES, THE EXERCIZE IN GOOD AND EVIL IN THIS EARTHLY EXISTENCE WAS NOT WITHOUT IT'S CONSEQUENCES

[Molly]

Sheila.   :thumbsup:

[WhiteWings]

Just when did begin think that The Lord made an error it how His Creation would manifest? and I am NOT defending the adversary. There is no "blame" to put on anyone.

Everything functions within the design specs. Right?

[micah7:9]

Just when did begin think that The Lord made an error it how His Creation would manifest? and I am NOT defending the adversary. There is no "blame" to put on anyone.

Everything functions within the design specs. Right?

Aint going there :bigGrin:

[Molly]

Do not turn your back on me. Do not reject your servant in anger. You have always been my helper. Don't leave me now; don't abandon me, O God of my salvation!
--Psa 27:9



Because you are my help, I sing in the shadow of your wings. [Psa 63:7]

[sheila]

Isaaih 30;19

    O people of Zion,who live in Jerusalem,you will weep no more.How gracious He will be to you  when you cry for help! As soon as He hears He

  will answer you.Although the Lord give you the bread of adversity[satan/adversary] and the waters of affliction[floodwaters of dragon]

   YOUR TEACHERS WILL BE HIDDEN NO MORE,WITH YOUR OWN EYES YOU WILL SEE THEM.Whether you turn to the right or to the left,you will

  hear a voice behind you,saying,'THIS IS THE WAY,WALK IN IT"  Then you will defile your idols overlaid with silver and your images,covered

  with gold,you will throw them away like a filthy rag,and say  'AWAY WITH YOU"

[thinktank]

The identity of Lucifer revealed


..and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. - II Thes. 2:3,4

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. - Is. 14:12-14


And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a BEAR, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. - Rev. 13:1-5


Isiah talks about Lucifer weaking the nations.

In secret societies they are preparing for Lucifer.

Some say Isiah is talking about king of Babylon. A fitting answer since King of Babylon is a type of shadow of the antichrist, might even be his spirit.

[sheila]

 Isaaih 26;19

   BUT YOUR DEAD WILL LIVE[BEAST THAT COME UP OUT OF EARTH IN IMAGE OF SATAN/Babylon rides]  THEIR BODIES WILL RISE.YOU WHO DWELL IN THE DUST

  WAKE UP,AND SHOUT FOR JOY!! YOUR DEW IS LIKE THE DEW OF THE MORNING THE EARTH WILL GIVE BIRTH TO HER DEAD

   Rev 13   the beast out of the sea[leviathan]  v 13

   Rev 20;   the sea gave up the dead that were in it,and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them,and each person was judged according to what

  he had done

    man in corrupt image..is beast out of earth and beast in the water...spiritually dead to God...BUT LOOK...THEY MUST GIVE THEM UP!!!

[Molly]

When Saul goes to the witch of ob to request that she rise up Samuel from the grave, this happens:

12And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.

13And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.

--1 Sam 28

"gods"

H430
אלהים
'ĕlôhı̂ym
el-o-heem'
Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative: - angels, X exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.


  Are these the sons of God from Gen 6 and 2Peter and Jude who transgressed and were reserved in Tarturus?

[sheila]

 yes,it is the resurrection of the wicked and the righteous......any man who dies is resurrected and counted withthe righteous..due to Christ's sacrifice..1st ressurection

   man's spirit returns to God....but the evil spirits always return to the earth to rise again..on another man....now those in Noah's day....rise when satan is released

   we have gods rising out of the earth[as man/sons of God returning to heaven] and we have wicked spirits that seek another house[body/temple]

  to dwell in.....and when they do..they make man in their image..as a beast coming out of the earth...with the biggest witch of all on it's back/Babylon]

[redhotmagma]

maybe this will shed a little light :laughing7:

NET © Notes   from Isaiah 14:12
1 tn The Hebrew text has הֵילֵל בֶּן־שָׁחַר (helel ben-shakhar, "Helel son of Shachar"), which is probably a name for the morning star (Venus) or the crescent moon. See HALOT 245 s.v. הֵילֵל.
sn What is the background for the imagery in vv. 12-15? This whole section (vv. 4b-21) is directed to the king of Babylon, who is clearly depicted as a human ruler. Other kings of the earth address him in vv. 9ff., he is called "the man" in v. 16, and, according to vv. 19-20, he possesses a physical body. Nevertheless the language of vv. 12-15 has led some to see a dual referent in the taunt song. These verses, which appear to be spoken by other pagan kings to a pagan king (cf. vv. 9-11), contain several titles and motifs that resemble those of Canaanite mythology, including references to Helel son of Shachar, the stars of El, the mountain of assembly, the recesses of Zaphon, and the divine title Most High. Apparently these verses allude to a mythological story about a minor god (Helel son of Shachar) who tried to take over Zaphon, the mountain of the gods. His attempted coup failed and he was hurled down to the underworld. The king of Babylon is taunted for having similar unrealized delusions of grandeur. Some Christians have seen an allusion to the fall of Satan here, but this seems contextually unwarranted (see J. Martin, "Isaiah," BKCOT, 1061).
2 tn Some understand the verb to from חָלַשׁ (khalash, "to weaken"), but HALOT 324 s.v. II חלשׁ proposes a homonym here, meaning "to defeat."
3 sn In this line the taunting kings hint at the literal identity of the king, after likening him to the god Helel and a tree. The verb גָדַע (gada', "cut down") is used of chopping down trees in 9:10 and 10:33.

notes from 2 Pet 1:19  So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts.

sn The reference to the morning star constitutes a double entendre. First, the term was normally used to refer to Venus. But the author of course has a metaphorical meaning in mind, as is obvious from the place where the morning star is to rise – "in your hearts." Most commentators see an allusion to Num 24:17 ("a star shall rise out of Jacob") in Peter's words. Early Christian exegesis saw in that passage a prophecy about Christ's coming. Hence, in this verse Peter tells his audience to heed the OT scriptures which predict the return of Christ, then alludes to one of the passages that does this very thing, all the while running the theme of light on a parallel track. In addition, it may be significant that Peter's choice of terms here is not the same as is found in the LXX. He has used a Hellenistic word that was sometimes used of emperors and deities, perhaps as a further polemic against the paganism of his day.

Left hand this is right hand whats going on?

How does the morning star go from being satan in the OT to Christ in the NT?

[sheila]

old man/new man in Christ....venus..the goddess of LOVE...Babylon has her own brand of 'love' which is really lust to kill/... when she is destroyed

  the real goddess of Love can rise in your heart[SOS 1;4  We rejoice and delight in you,we will praise your love more than wine[of fornication of Babylon]

[micah7:9]

oy yeah..they were bearing the image of the corrupt one,alright...the bastard reprobate satan's very image

    are you really really sure this is what you want to do? Defend satan and put all the blame on man?...Man is disciplined over it,for sure, and

  appointed to die ONCE.. then the Judgement/with mercy and free gift of righteousness.BUT THERE ARE THOSE WHO ARE TWICE DEAD

Isa 45:7  Forming light, and preparing darkness, Making peace, and preparing evil, I am Jehovah, doing all these things.'
I do not defend the adversary, but I will hold the knowledge that I AM IS Lord of All. And there is not ONE thing that happens that He is not very aware of.

[eaglesway]

maybe this will shed a little light :laughing7:

NET © Notes   from Isaiah 14:12
1 tn The Hebrew text has הֵילֵל בֶּן־שָׁחַר (helel ben-shakhar, "Helel son of Shachar"), which is probably a name for the morning star (Venus) or the crescent moon. See HALOT 245 s.v. הֵילֵל.
sn What is the background for the imagery in vv. 12-15? This whole section (vv. 4b-21) is directed to the king of Babylon, who is clearly depicted as a human ruler. Other kings of the earth address him in vv. 9ff., he is called "the man" in v. 16, and, according to vv. 19-20, he possesses a physical body. Nevertheless the language of vv. 12-15 has led some to see a dual referent in the taunt song. These verses, which appear to be spoken by other pagan kings to a pagan king (cf. vv. 9-11), contain several titles and motifs that resemble those of Canaanite mythology, including references to Helel son of Shachar, the stars of El, the mountain of assembly, the recesses of Zaphon, and the divine title Most High. Apparently these verses allude to a mythological story about a minor god (Helel son of Shachar) who tried to take over Zaphon, the mountain of the gods. His attempted coup failed and he was hurled down to the underworld. The king of Babylon is taunted for having similar unrealized delusions of grandeur. Some Christians have seen an allusion to the fall of Satan here, but this seems contextually unwarranted (see J. Martin, "Isaiah," BKCOT, 1061).
2 tn Some understand the verb to from חָלַשׁ (khalash, "to weaken"), but HALOT 324 s.v. II חלשׁ proposes a homonym here, meaning "to defeat."
3 sn In this line the taunting kings hint at the literal identity of the king, after likening him to the god Helel and a tree. The verb גָדַע (gada', "cut down") is used of chopping down trees in 9:10 and 10:33.

notes from 2 Pet 1:19  So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts.

sn The reference to the morning star constitutes a double entendre. First, the term was normally used to refer to Venus. But the author of course has a metaphorical meaning in mind, as is obvious from the place where the morning star is to rise – "in your hearts." Most commentators see an allusion to Num 24:17 ("a star shall rise out of Jacob") in Peter's words. Early Christian exegesis saw in that passage a prophecy about Christ's coming. Hence, in this verse Peter tells his audience to heed the OT scriptures which predict the return of Christ, then alludes to one of the passages that does this very thing, all the while running the theme of light on a parallel track. In addition, it may be significant that Peter's choice of terms here is not the same as is found in the LXX. He has used a Hellenistic word that was sometimes used of emperors and deities, perhaps as a further polemic against the paganism of his day.

Left hand this is right hand whats going on?

How does the morning star go from being satan in the OT to Christ in the NT?

Morning Stars

"Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding, Who set its measurements? Since you know. Or who stretched the line on it? "On what were its bases sunk? Or who laid its cornerstone, When the morning stars sang together And all the sons of God shouted for joy?
(Job 38:4-7)

Perhaps there was a time when ALL the morning stars sang together, but we know that at some point they sang together no longer

And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,
(Jud 1:6)

but even then they were still the sons of God

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them. The LORD said to Satan, "From where do you come?" Then Satan answered the LORD and said, "From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it."
(Job 1:6-7)

the prince of this world clothes himself as an angel of light to deceive, but we are the light to redeem his darkness

Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
(Eph 3:8-11)

But in the meantime,

But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
(2Co 4:3-4)

Thats why the weapons of our warfare are not natural, as we bring every thought into captivity to Jesus, when our obedience is complete He will bring about their obedience also.

Evil men and seducers will wax worse ans worse deceiving and being deceived, but we will rise like the dew of the morning as the day approaches,

And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince(archon) of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
(Eph 2:1-2)

the disobedient sons, and some of them were stars too







Context is everything......we have to look at ALL the scriptures concerning the subject, then maybe we can see through a glass darkly :o)

[Molly]

To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
(Eph 3:8-11)

This is one of the mysteries that has been made known to the saints in these last days.



8Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

9And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

12In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

--Eph 3



This is what we share--

"the fellowship"
G2842
κοινωνία
koinōnia
koy-nohn-ee'-ah
From G2844; partnership, that is, (literally) participation, or (social) intercourse, or (pecuniary) benefaction: - (to) communicate (-ation), communion, (contri-), distribution, fellowship.


[of the] "mystery"
G3466
μυστήριον
mustērion
moos-tay'-ree-on
From a derivative of μύω muō (to shut the mouth); a secret or "mystery" (through the idea of silence imposed by initiation into religious rites): - mystery.

[thinktank]

I have seen some say that  son of the morning star has been translated incorrectly. That the proper term is son of the dawn.

If this be true, it does makes sense. That this beast ruler, is the son of a new age, or light bearer, dawn of a new world, a new order.

[sheila]

   SATAN ALWAYS ATTEMPTS TO CHANGE TIMES...AND OFFERS A COUNTERFEIT......HITLER WITH HIS 1000 YR REGIME........

    NEW WORLD ORDER....MUSLIM'S GRASPING WORLD DOMINION AND RELIGIOUS RULE

[redhotmagma]

http://jacobisrael71.wordpress.com/category/who-is-lucifer-really/

SATAN is not a MAN.    —-    Lucifer is a MAN.

Satan is a SPIRIT             —-      Lucifer's flesh is eaten by worms. (FLESH not SPIRIT)

Satan never had TRUTH (Murderer/LIAR from the BEGINNING) — Lucifer once had the TRUTH

This last point is our "DEAD" giveaway.

LUCIFER is a MAN that FELL in the GARDEN, because HE WANTED TO BE GOD.

Now doesn't that sound like another MAN, we know, that God created to be his express image on earth? ADAM, perhaps?

Did not ADAM the MAN, exalt himself by eating the fruit of the tree that SATAN (who was a liar from the beginning) tempted Eve with.

Did not ADAM clearly disobey God and FALL out of HEAVEN (PARADISE), as we are told Lucifer did?

I know what some will say... The GARDEN isn't HEAVEN. But they will ALSO  say, the GARDEN is PARADISE... Then they will go onto say when Jesus spoke to the thief on the Cross "today you will be with me in PARADISE" Jesus was speaking of Heaven. So which is it people. You can't agree with something and then disagree in the same breath.

James 3:12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.

Let's take a look at what the SERPENT said to EVE. And remember the SERPENT lied from the BEGINNING. He was more subtle (devious) than any other creature.

Satan said to EVE, "If you eat of this tree YOU SHALL BE LIKE GOD" –

______________________________________________________

If Lucifer is Adam then I see no problem with calling him the daystar, and also calling Christ the second Adam the daystar

[sheila]

    the spirit of the adversary entering man...is the man of sin[son of perdition... that slays the spirit of Christ.in man.

    God declares the end  in the beginning...when satan was in heaven..he was named the dragon...when he took the body of the serpent..

   he was named the original serpent..when he took the body of animals..he was called beast..and when he took the flesh of man...

   he was named..man of sin.....and finally we know him as a mere tool....used to provide the 'evil' in this good and evil exercize....

   
    SEE HIM FALL, LOWER AND LOWER AND LOWER....O' ARROGANT ONE

[micah7:9]

You seem to be very sociable in giving the adversary more power than the adversary is worth. The son of perdition is the very carnal nature of mankind.
read and see....Ecc 3:18 I said in my heart:It is on account of the sons of humanity That the One, Elohim, seeks to manifest them And to show them that they themselves are beasts."
Ecc 3:19 For the destiny of the sons of humanity And the destiny of the beast, It is one destiny for them; As death is for this one, so is death for that one, And one spirit is for all; There is no advantage for the human over the beast, For the whole is vanity."

Can you not see that mankind has always thought so much more of himself than he is? Mankind without Jesus's death is is no more than a beast who will die and return to dust and that breath/spirit, that motivates  mans breathing to walk in the creation of The Creator.

[eaglesway]

This is what we share--

"the fellowship"
G2842
κοινωνία
koinōnia
koy-nohn-ee'-ah
From G2844; partnership, that is, (literally) participation, or (social) intercourse, or (pecuniary) benefaction: - (to) communicate (-ation), communion, (contri-), distribution, fellowship.


[of the] "mystery"
G3466
μυστήριον
mustērion
moos-tay'-ree-on
From a derivative of μύω muō (to shut the mouth); a secret or "mystery" (through the idea of silence imposed by initiation into religious rites): - mystery.

Yeaaaah