Hi there! :-) Ronny here from rural,small town NE Texas. I have known about UR for around 4 1/2 years now. First heard of it when I was on WebTV and when I was posting in one of their groups. There was a fellow there by the name of Jim Muffo,who posted about such. When I first heard of such,I thought it sounded too good to be true! And from an infant,I was brought up in an independent Calvinistic type Baptist church. There I had been taught to believe that God had chosen/elected to definately save only a small part of the human race and that by way of Jesus Christ and the cross. And the two main beliefs I knew of,were the Calvinistic and Armenian/free will way. And I had been brought up taught the first in church and taught to never question such and I never did. Then this fellow posted about the UR way of believing,in that WebTV group. I know one thing he posted was the scripture that reads,in Adam all died,in Jesus Christ all shall be made alive. That sounded wonderful to me;but right at first I did think,this is just too good to be true! :-) (ha) But one thing I was determined to do and did do,was read more by people who believe UR. I wanted to see what they had to say,the scriptures they used, their reasoning and why they believed as they did? And I wanted to get this,straight from the sources I then knew about. Many of those,I found on the Tentmaker website. And the more I read,the more I saw that these people were right. And I had believed for years that we all died in Adam;but what a revelation and a wonder,that we all were also made alive in Jesus Christ! :-) And that he was truly the Saviour of the whole world and that, with no one left out at all! :-)
I remember when I first thought I was saved,at 12 years old. I felt really guilty about something and went up at church one day. The pastor told me about God,Jesus Christ, the Bible,etc,etc and of course,I believed everything he told me. I believed him because I'd been taught in church to never question anything that came from our church's pulpit. And the pastor thought I'd been saved and the other church members must of believed the same. Then one week later I was baptized and made a member of that church. I went that way for 4 years,completely believing without question,that I was saved,that I was a Christian. Then at 16 years old,I and an older brother had got to a Baptist Bible camp in Oregon. One night,my brother,I and some of his friends were out driving around, when all out of the blue,God simply let me know that I was lost! Whoa,was that ever a shock to me! I have a much longer story to tell about this;but it's past midnight tonight and I should get back to sleep in a bit! (ha) But the main things are,God let me know that I was lost and God led me to seek help on that. And that help ended up being a man at this Bible camp,who simply read some scriptures to me. Never commented on them;but just read them to me. And as he did,I knew I was in the presence of God,holy God. And God let me see my sin,my sinfullness and that as compared to God and God's holiness. I agreed with God,with all that God showed me and in this way,God led me to repentance towards God. And just as soon as I had agreed with,repented towards God,the love of God began to pour out upon me :-) and God showed me Jesus Christ on the cross. God put a picture in my mind of 3 crosses and I knew that on the center cross was Jesus Christ and that he was there for me,there taking my sins upon himself. For the first time in my life,I realized and knew that Jesus Christ/God,loved me just that much. :-) So God proved to me,that God loved me. And the guy who was reading some scripture to me,he asked me if I wanted to pray? And I did. And my first prayer to God,was simply a prayer of thanksgiving,with me thanking God for saving me. Then I went on to tell my brother and some other people,about what God had just done for me! :-) Then I went outside that night,to where both some younger and older people were,around a campfire. And I proceeded to tell them as well,what God had just done for me. :-) In later years, I was to remember,that at that time,my greatest wish was that all people would also have the exact same type of relationship,that I then had with God. And in later years and after I learned about UR and the truth of that,I was reminded of the scripture that says that God gives us the desires of our heart! :-) Well,God gave me one desire when God saved me; but in a Calvinistic type believing and teaching church,I was taught that God only elected/chose to save a small percent of the human race. And I believed that,because I was also taught to believe in that church,that everything that came from our pulpit, was straight from God and true beyond question. So for many years,the desire that God gave me after saving me,I lost that desire. And of course,I couldn't see it or understand it then;but what I was doing for so many years and on so many things,was simply listening to and believing what some people taught me and I wasn't simply listening to and believing God. But back when I was 40 years old,God did start teaching me to depend fully on God and if I didn't understand something one way or the other and simply lacked wisdom on the matter,then God taught me to go directly to God and ask God to guide me and show me the truth of a matter. My I was shocked,when I truly saw that scripture,in James chapter one. The one that says,if you lack wisdom,ask God. And that's what I began to do,with the full assurance,that in God's time,God would show me the truth of a matter. That,I had no doubt about at all. And that,was a big switch for me,for before that, I had simply believed so much,simply because it was what some church leaders had said and taught me to believe in church. Things they taught me,came directly from God and were true beyond question. Well,they had taught me that to question their word,was the same as me questioning God and for me to disagree with anything they said,was the same as me calling God a liar. And that's the type of church I grew up in. That's how I was taught to believe by some people;but not by God. But God freed me from that,when I was 40 years old. :-)
I've wrote a good bit tonight. (ha) LoL It's past midnight now. Need to get to sleep in a bit and get some bills paid tomorrow! (ha) Plus,I've been sick for several weeks now, still taking two meds for this. Not quite over everything;but so much better than I was! :-) The funny part is,one med makes me hyper and one makes me sleepy! LoL Well, better get off of here in a bit,get some more sleep and get somethings done in the morning. Like bills paid! (ha) :-)
I just wanted to add,that the Tentmaker website has been a real blessing to me! I've done a lot of reading on here over the last 4 and 1/2 years. That,both in the articles and in this discuss forum. To say it's been nice,to find this forum and other UR websites,to say it's nice,is really a very big understatement! For this site and others like it,over the last few years,they have really been a huge blessings,from God to me! Thank you all! :-) God bless you all! :-)
Hi and welcome Tex :banana:
Yep, glad to hear from you. Welcome!
Welcome
Welcome
Bro Ron ,
Great testimony , you coming to Christ , When God makes it personal, its powerful ! :flowerred:
I am constantly judged for not going'' to church'' and told I am in the wrong and my only comment is and to my defense is, I do not believe the way they do '' lots of wagging heads .
:dsunny:
Howdy Ronny!
Blessing bro Ronny
Hey dere partna' - where did'ya park yoh horse :thumbsup:
Welcome to the forum, Ron, and thanks for writing your story. I appreciate hearing the sometimes long road we have to take to find the truth.
Hello Ronny,
I enjoyed reading your testimony.
You truly are blessed to have been freed from the church/cult.
Keep searching for truth.
John, from Alabama - fellow Southerner/brother in Christ.
One of the problems with the church is folks are taught to not question its authority not because it's the mediator between God and man but because the church doesn't have the answers to your questions. Only Christ is the mediator between God and man, and I think only the inspired written word of God has your answers. You need to read an accurate translation though. My questions led me to leave the Roman Catholic Church in my teens and then the Protestant Church a few years later because both contradict the word of God. Now, when I say "church," I mean both because they both have the same basic doctrine even though Rome has some extra crazy stuff going on. The word "church" is not even scriptural. It is an intentional mistranslation of the Greek "ekklesia," literally "out-called," accurately translated "ecclesia" which is the "body of Christ" called out of the world. The church is part of the world system. You were right to question despite the warning. That's how you eventually found the truth. God bless you.
Quote from: WhiteWings on October 15, 2014, 09:24:55 AM
Hi and welcome Tex :banana:
Ronny to WhiteWings:
Thank you WhiteWings! :-)
Not sure how much I'll get to post today? Just took a generic Advil or something like that about 30 minutes ago and somethings are already doing better now. :-)
Quote from: jabcat on October 15, 2014, 09:44:14 AM
Yep, glad to hear from you. Welcome!
Ronny to Jabcat:
Thank you Jabcat. :-)
Quote from: rosered on October 15, 2014, 01:42:27 PM
Welcome
Bro Ron ,
Great testimony , you coming to Christ , When God makes it personal, its powerful ! :flowerred:
I am constantly judged for not going" to church" and told I am in the wrong and my only comment is and to my defense is, I do not believe the way they do " lots of wagging heads .
Ronny to Rosered:
Thank you Rosered. :-) And I do love telling others,how God saved me. :-) And now that God has shown me the truth on this matter,it is a great God given blessing to me,to be able to tell others,that what God has done for me,God will also do for them! :-) I can tell people,the ones not yet born of God,that I don't know the time that God will do that for them;but what I do know,is that what God has done for me and some other people, God will also do for them;but that coming for each one of us,at the time of God's choosing. So,it's no longer a question of will we be born of God;but,it's just a matter of when,for each individual person! :-)
I can understand what you mean,about not going to church. And how some people react to that. Just try and keep in mind,that its not how some people look at and judge you, that matters. As for myself,I know of no church in my area,that would have me. Well,not unless I lied and kept my mouth shut about somethings. Too,I have a ready made excuse,as to why going to a local church,would be of no use for me,etc! (ha) That's because I'm so hard of hearing and even with a hearing aid,I can't understand but maybe one out of 10 words,that come from the pulpit area. Several years ago,I was at a local church because of their food pantry. The pastor there was trying to get me to go to church there. Personally,I think he was trying to guilt trip me! (ha) LoL And I told him, that even with a hearing aid,I was too hard of hearing to understand the preaching from the pulpit,etc. Now from the way he looked,I'm not sure he believed that! :-) LoL Too, at the time I was still Calvinistic in belief and this was a freewill/Armenian type church,so no way would that of worked out for me then! :-)
And I was in church from an infant to my late 20's. I'm 59 years old now. And my local church that I was a member of,it was wrong on a lot of things,though I didn't know that back then. And one thing I do remember and miss,is the singing. :-) The songs that were simply praising God,etc. We were a small local church;but sometimes when we sang,you would think we would blow out the windows or raise the roof off of the church house! :-) LoL Well,every since God saved me,I did believe in making a joyful noise unto the Lord! :-) I have a number of favorite songs,with just 3 of them being, Amazing Grace,The Love of God and How Great Thou Art. :-) Yeah,I do miss the congregational singing of songs like that,of people praising/thanking God in that way;but what I don't miss,is the very wrong man made teaching,that God only chose/elected to save some and at the best,simply let everyone else go to hell.
Quote from: ed on October 15, 2014, 04:02:48 PM
:dsunny:
Howdy Ronny!
Ronny to Ed:
Thank you Ed. :-)
Quote from: eaglesway on October 15, 2014, 08:52:15 PM
Blessing bro Ronny
Ronny to Eaglesway:
Thank you Eaglesway. :-)
Quote from: RaiderGonzo on October 16, 2014, 04:27:39 AM
Hey dere partna' - where did'ya park yoh horse :thumbsup:
Ronny to RaiderGonzo:
:-) 'Fraid I haven't owned a horse,since I was a teen! And I'm 59 years young now :-) and have been staying with my older sister for awhile. Now she has this horse,that is spoiled rotten! LoL That one hasn't been ridden in years now and I'm not really sure why?
But I remember an older brother of ours riding it a few years back. Personally,I have no urge to get on that spoiled thing,for fear she might just do me some damage?! :-( LoL And have told Sis,she needs a wagon or buggy,to hook that horse up to. :-) Maybe a buggy,say like Doc had of the old Gunsmoke TV show! Now using such as that,that looks like fun to me! :-) LoL
Quote from: bushy on October 16, 2014, 06:53:08 PM
Welcome to the forum, Ron, and thanks for writing your story. I appreciate hearing the sometimes long road we have to take to find the truth.
Ronny to Bushy:
Thank you Bushy and you're welcome too. :-) And yeah,it can certainly seem like a long road,before we get to where we know the truth of a matter. But then I also think,our life, it's really not that long,in the overall scheme of things. But,it still seems like a long time to us,when we have been taught to believe a lie and before we learn the truth of a given matter,from God. I'm 59 years old now and it's been 19 years since God taught me,to simply ask God about things I wanted to understand and know about,for sure. God taught me not to depend on any person or persons for that;but to simply ask God, read and study the scriptures and trust that God,would give me the answer,to a particular question. To something that I really wanted to know,for sure.
Just thinking,how I was brought up in church,never to question what I was taught there. Or if I did,I was taught to keep my mouth shut. From my teens,just remember one thing church leaders taught and believed,that I knew was not right. Now they never mentioned this much and maybe not at all in church? But one teaching was that the worst sin any young single person could commit,was to have sexual relations before being married. That just never made any sense to me,as I thought about things/sins like rape,murder and abuse of a child. For how could those not be worse sins?!
A funny story here. Years ago my home church pastor,he was making the comment at home,that he didn't know what young people were coming to nowdays?! That,in regards to some having sex before marriage. Well,his wife just popped up and said,they're not doing anything more than what you tried to talk me into doing,before we got married and the only reason we didn't,is because I wouldn't let you! :-) Yeah,the preacher got kinda upset,at his wife telling off on him! :-) LoL
Quote from: JBerton on October 16, 2014, 08:59:16 PM
Hello Ronny,
I enjoyed reading your testimony.
You truly are blessed to have been freed from the church/cult.
Keep searching for truth.
John, from Alabama - fellow Southerner/brother in Christ.
Ronny to John:
Tnank you John. :-) And you're right,that God surely has blessed me,by freeing me from the church/cult. But at one and the same time,I can also say I'm glad that God let me first go through such. For having personally gone through such and then having God deliver me from same,that makes me so greatly appreciate,what God did for me. And with the man made lies that God delivered me from,that makes me better able to help some others,who are going through and or have gone through the same. And I can't always put this is the best words;but this I know,no matter what God has chosen for me to go through,God will always bring good out of that,out of all things. And about that,I have not one doubt.
BTW,I still have some family,living in Alabama. :-) There's a late cousin,whose family still lives there. His wife and several of their kids and grandkids. And I used to have an uncle, who pastored a church in Alabama.
And I gotta tell you about a great Grandma of mine,who came from Alabama to NE Texas,in the 1880's. Her husband had died,she had two young children and one on the way. Well,after her husband's passing,she hitched up the mule to the wagon and headed for Texas,to live with a brother of hers,who was already here! This by herself,with two kids and her pregnant! When I first heard this part of my families history,I thought my, that Grandma of mine,she sure must of been one tough,hardheaded lady! :-) LoL
Quote from: Tom on October 16, 2014, 09:27:35 PM
One of the problems with the church is folks are taught to not question its authority not because it's the mediator between God and man but because the church doesn't have the answers to your questions. Only Christ is the mediator between God and man, and I think only the inspired written word of God has your answers. You need to read an accurate translation though. My questions led me to leave the Roman Catholic Church in my teens and then the Protestant Church a few years later because both contradict the word of God. Now, when I say "church," I mean both because they both have the same basic doctrine even though Rome has some extra crazy stuff going on. The word "church" is not even scriptural. It is an intentional mistranslation of the Greek "ekklesia," literally "out-called," accurately translated "ecclesia" which is the "body of Christ" called out of the world. The church is part of the world system. You were right to question despite the warning. That's how you eventually found the truth. God bless you.
Ronny to Tom:
Thank you Tom. :-)
And I'm sure,that over 99.9% of all I was taught in my home church,I never questioned. I was just that well brainwashed,to listen to and believe some people,instead of simply listening to and believing God. And as I've said in another post,right after God saved me, I went out at that Baptist Bible camp and told everyone in earshot,about what God had just done for me. :-) Well,I then wanted everyone to have the exact same type of relationship with God,as I then had. The day after this,was the end of the Bible camp and a brother and I went on to another town and to a church,where he knew some people there. While he talked to them,I looked for and found some gospel tracts there,got them and walked out on the street a ways. Stopped in front of a big store and started passing those tracts out to people,who were coming and going from there. I was scared! :-) Guess I was afraid someone might bite my head off or some such! :-) LoL But no one did and everyone was nice to me,smiling,etc. But I never said a word to anyone,for I was too scared to. :-) Well,I was a 16 year old kid,who was growing up in rural,small town NE Texas. The only people I knew that well,were from my small church and very small rural school. I think there were all of 15 kids,in my high school graduating class! And less than 40 members,in my local church! And I think I was seldom if ever in the presence of a stranger,without family or some friends around. Yet there I was 2,000 miles from home and passing out gospel tracts to people,who were complete strangers to me! So It was scared;but yet God,the love of God,compelled me to do such. For God had saved me, the day before and as I've said,I then wanted/desired for all people to then have the same type of relationship with God,as I then had. Then on the plane ride back home,I shared with my seatmate,about what God had just done for me. Back home and in church and I simply set in church and waited for church leadership to tell me what to do then. I thought we would have visitation and passing out of tracts,etc;but we never did. That really surprised me at first;but then I'd been taught there,that church leadership knew best and I was to follow there example. And what ever their teaching and example was, why,that had to be right and best. Or so I was brought up in church,taught to believe.
I still remember the first time I disobeyed church leadership and chose to obey God instead and that,simply because I knew it was the right thing to do. We had a 7 day church revival meeting every year and church people were expected to go out and invite others to that. I was out driving around one year and doing just that. Just going from house to house and inviting people to come to our revival meeting. Then I came upon a house where I saw several black men sitting out front. Now I knew my church leaders wouldn't want me inviting those men to our church. What to do?! Well,I did what I knew God would have me to do,I did what I knew was the right thing to do. I simply stopped, talked to them and invited them to our church revival meeting. I should put in here,my parents taught me right on this matter,before church leadership could teach me different and wrong. For in my growing up,both of my parents taught me,I was not to look up to or down on anyone,because of the material things they had or didn't have or because of the color of their skin. So my parents taught me right on that,before I was old enough to see that some of our church leadership felt and taught differently on the matter.
And I did love my home church pastor;but he was racist. An irony was,that in later years I found out that his "white" family,was actually part black! (ha) Then later on than that,I also learned that my "white" family,was also part black! (ha) And from a very young age, I knew I was part white and part Native American Indian. Then I found out,I also had some black ancestors. So as I put it then,I'm a perfectly good 100% American mutt! :-) LoL
And I agree with you about the RCC and Protestant churchs. They all have some things wrong. And in my time online,I've posted with some people from both groups. And made some mad at me,in each group. :-) And from somethings I've read,I would say you're also right in saying that the word church,is not scriptural. And you're right,that we, who are the presently saved of God in this age,we are the called out ones. For God calls out and saves people,at the time of God's choosing. P.S. I need to read some more about that,about the word church. I have read some on that in the past;but that's been awhile back now.
I think I've replied to everyone's post in this thread? And if I skipped anyone,I sure didn't mean to. But just want to thank everyone again,for the warm welcome I've been given here! :-)
Welcome to the tentmaker forums Ronnie, I enjoyed reading your testimony. I am also from Texas as well. God Bless you and it is an honor to have you here.
Ronny, welcome to the Tent! :friendstu: :gimmefive: :friendstu: I enjoyed your testimony very much. Glad to have you! :cloud9:
Quote from: Tom on October 16, 2014, 09:27:35 PM
The church is part of the world system.
Yes, it is. Your words above jelled my thinking as I realized that most churches (if not all of them) are run on a business model, and having IRS agents tell them what they can and cannot say from the pulpit in keep their precious tax exemption makes them a de-facto State Church. World system indeed! Doctrine can get awfully worldly too... :sigh:
What you call the church is not the church. The ecclesia, the called out ones, the gathering, the body- which is the fulness of Him who fills all in all- that is the only church.
"I know that you have a name that lives, but you are the synagogue of Satan"
Quote from: Lazarus Short on October 18, 2014, 05:03:31 AM
Ronny, welcome to the Tent! :friendstu: :gimmefive: :friendstu: I enjoyed your testimony very much. Glad to have you! :cloud9:
Ronny to Lazarus:
Thank you. :-)
Quote from: eaglesway on October 18, 2014, 09:22:49 AM
What you call the church is not the church. The ecclesia, the called out ones, the gathering, the body- which is the fulness of Him who fills all in all- that is the only church.
"I know that you have a name that lives, but you are the synagogue of Satan"
:thumbsup:
Amen the called out ones
called out of the world John 15
18"And if the world hates you, know that it hated me before you."
19"And if you had been from the world, the world would have loved its own;
but you are not from the world, but I have chosen you from the world; because of this the world hates you." 20"Remember the word that I have spoken to you, that there is no servant greater than his master. If they have persecuted me, they will persecute you also; if they have kept my word, they will also keep yours."
21"They will do all these things among you because of my name, because they do not know him who has sent me."
22"If I did not come speaking with them, they would have no sin, but now there is no covering for their sin.
" 23
"Whoever hates me hates my Father also."
24"If I had not done the works in their sight which no other man had done, they would not have sin, But now they have seen and hated me and my Father also. 25
That the word which is written in their law may be fulfilled: 'They hated me for nothing.' "26"
But when The Redeemer of the accursed comes, him whom I shall send to you from the presence of my Father, The Spirit of Truth, he who proceeds from the presence of my Father, he shall testify concerning me." 27
"You also are testifying, who are with me from the beginning." :flowerred:
Quote from: Lazarus Short on October 18, 2014, 05:32:58 AM
Quote from: Tom on October 16, 2014, 09:27:35 PM
The church is part of the world system.
Lazarus to Tom:
Yes, it is. Your words above jelled my thinking as I realized that most churches (if not all of them) are run on a business model, and having IRS agents tell them what they can and cannot say from the pulpit in keep their precious tax exemption makes them a de-facto State Church. World system indeed! Doctrine can get awfully worldly too... :sigh:
Ronny to Lazarus:
I wonder if most local churches are denominational churches? And then there are the really huge mega churches,that I've heard about. Somehow,I've got the idea that most of the latter are independent and not denominational type churches. Don't know if that's right of not?
The church I grew up in,was a very small independent,nondenominational type church. And the only ones we claimed kin too,were those local churches just like us in belief and teaching. I was brought up in that Calvinist type church,being taught that we and those exactly like us in belief,constituted the one and only true church of God. When I was around 14 years old,I was shocked when my Mom told me that our pastor was wrong, in his belief about who the church consisted of. She believed the church consisted of all those,who had been born of God and not just those,who were our particular type of
Calvinistic Baptist in belief and teaching. Well,I was shocked,that my Mom disagreed with our pastor on this. I has been taught by him and some other of the church leadership, that they always spoke for God,spoke,taught and believed nothing,but exactly what God said. And I had simply believed that my Mom and all of the adults in our church, believed exactly as out church leadership taught. And I don't remember how I did it back then; but somehow I worked it out in my 14 year old mind,how my Mom and the pastor could both be right! (ha) :-)
Now,at 59 years old and for sometime now,I simply believe that the church/body of Jesus Christ consists of all those persons who have been born of God. And each one of us may or may not also be a member of this or that man made denominational type church. Personally,I think we are scattered throughout those type churches and some of us outside of them as well. But where ever we may be that way,each one of us in a member of the body/church of Jesus Christ and that because we have been put there by God,
when we were born of God.
Quote from: eaglesway on October 18, 2014, 09:22:49 AM
What you call the church is not the church. The ecclesia, the called out ones, the gathering, the body- which is the fulness of Him who fills all in all- that is the only church.
"I know that you have a name that lives, but you are the synagogue of Satan"
Ronny to Eaglesway:
I agree,that the body of Jesus Christ are the called out ones,those born of God. But in the independent church I grew up in and became a member of at 12 years old,there I was taught to believe that we and those just like us,constituted the one and only true church. And of course I believed that,because my locals churches leadership taught me that such teaching was right out of the Bible and straight from God. So,I believed them and that without question. Then,when I was around 14 years old,my Mom told me out pastor was wrong about who the church was. She believed the church/body of Jesus Christ were those born of God. It shocked me,that she believed our pastor was wrong on this and in my 14 year old mind,I somehow worked it out so that both my pastor and my Mom, could be right on this. :-)
And I know how I though about the kids at school,who went to church at places different
from my home church. Some of them being Holiness,Church of Christ,other sorts of Baptist,etc. I felt sorry for them,because they weren't in the one true church,as I was. :-)
I could feel sorry for them and also look down on them at times,since they were deceived and didn't know all of the truth,as I did. (ha) And I thought I was very good in most ways. Much better than some of the other kids at school. It really amazed me in later years,to realize how self righteous a person can be,who is Calvinistic in belief. But I looked down on those,who were not in my "one true church. " I could feel "sorry" for them and also think of myself as being better than,in so many ways. Then at 16 years old,as I was being born of God,God let me see God's holiness,my sinful selfrighteous and God let me compare the two. Needless to say,I didn't come off looking good at all! :-) LoL But it was exactly what God knew I needed. Exactly what I needed for God,the goodness of God,to bring me to repentance towards God. :-) And I compare this to that verse in the song Amazing Grace. "Twas grace that taught my heart to fear and grace my fears relieved. How precious did that grace appear,the hour I first believed." For it was truly the love,grace and mercy of God,that showed me the holiness of God and let me compare that to my sinfullness. God showed me both of those in contrast to each other and in this way,God caused my heart to fear. In this way,God brought me to repentance towards God. Then God took me on,to faith in Jesus Christ. :-) But before this,God simply let me know that I was lost and showed me my sinful selfrighteousness and that, in comparison to God and God's holiness. It just puts a smile on my face,to think about how God,gave me exactly what I needed! :-) And not because I asked for such or even knew to. For I didn't. But God gave me such,because God loved me. :-) And now in later years,it is so good to see and understand,that what God has done for me and some others in this age,that God is going to do the same for every person,from Adam on down,before all is said and done! :-) Reminded here of that old song,To God Be The Glory. :-) Amen to that! :-)
Quote from: rosered on October 18, 2014, 09:30:20 PM
Quote from: eaglesway on October 18, 2014, 09:22:49 AM
What you call the church is not the church. The ecclesia, the called out ones, the gathering, the body- which is the fulness of Him who fills all in all- that is the only church.
"I know that you have a name that lives, but you are the synagogue of Satan"
:thumbsup:
Rosered to Eaglesway:
Amen the called out ones
called out of the world John 15
18"And if the world hates you, know that it hated me before you."
19"And if you had been from the world, the world would have loved its own;
but you are not from the world, but I have chosen you from the world; because of this the world hates you."
20"Remember the word that I have spoken to you, that there is no servant greater than his master. If they have persecuted me, they will persecute you also; if they have kept my word, they will also keep yours."
21"They will do all these things among you because of my name, because they do not know him who has sent me."
22"If I did not come speaking with them, they would have no sin, but now there is no covering for their sin.
" 23"Whoever hates me hates my Father also."
24"If I had not done the works in their sight which no other man had done, they would not have sin, But now they have seen and hated me and my Father also. 25That the word which is written in their law may be fulfilled: 'They hated me for nothing.' "
26"But when The Redeemer of the accursed comes, him whom I shall send to you from the presence of my Father, The Spirit of Truth, he who proceeds from the presence of my Father, he shall testify concerning me."
27"You also are testifying, who are with me from the beginning." :flowerred:
Ronny to Rosered:
Just thinking,in my years online,the people I have had more trouble with and caught more grief from,were some of those who said they were Christian and for the most part,I got along well with those who never claimed to be Christian or outright let you know that they weren't. On the last,I knew the truth about UR and was posting on an old WebTV Christian group. This was what they called an open group and you couldn't be banned from posting in such,unless you did something truly bad,like threatening to kill some one etc! (ha) This one guy,who said he was Christian,he would get very mad at me when I posted and let it be known that I believed in UR and no longer believed in a Jesus
Christ created hell of eternal torment. And I told there as well,about how God had saved me. And the nonChristians who posted there,we by no means agreed on everything;but we got along with each other and were civil to each other,even where we disgreed. And I would tell how God had saved me and some other people and that I knew God was going to do the same for them;but that it was God only,who knew when each person,would be born of God. I guess one reason I made that one guy mad,was because I would not and did not threaten any non Christian,with a hell of eternal torment. But instead,I simply told the nonChristian people there,that God/Jesus Christ loved them,that there was no hell of eternal torment and at the time of God's choosing,each of them would be born of God. And at that time,each would truly come to see and know,just how greatly God did love them. :-)
Thanks Bro Ronnie
Yes making your ''faith '' known seems to be a problem when no one asks lol
the Lord said only ''if they ask'' to tell them of the hope in you gentle and mildly 1 Peter 3:15 :winkgrin:
I have found more divisions and ''fire starters '' in politic and religion than any other source it seems :eek:
More like get ready to ''rumble '' those sons of thunder
the problem for me was those insisting hell and eternal torture is real when they themselves have no idea what they are talking about or believe in
It was mostly what some other guy is teaching them to believe in
Is that really faith in God ? you have to wonder
My hope is the Lord will be as merciful to them as Jesus has been to us all
Because the truth be told there is not a soul on the face of the earth that does not need Gods Love , mercy and grace , no matter what condition they are in
:flowerred:
Quote from: RonnyTX on October 18, 2014, 01:45:09 AM
Quote from: Tom on October 16, 2014, 09:27:35 PM
One of the problems with the church is folks are taught to not question its authority not because it's the mediator between God and man but because the church doesn't have the answers to your questions. Only Christ is the mediator between God and man, and I think only the inspired written word of God has your answers. You need to read an accurate translation though. My questions led me to leave the Roman Catholic Church in my teens and then the Protestant Church a few years later because both contradict the word of God. Now, when I say "church," I mean both because they both have the same basic doctrine even though Rome has some extra crazy stuff going on. The word "church" is not even scriptural. It is an intentional mistranslation of the Greek "ekklesia," literally "out-called," accurately translated "ecclesia" which is the "body of Christ" called out of the world. The church is part of the world system. You were right to question despite the warning. That's how you eventually found the truth. God bless you.
Ronny to Tom:
Thank you Tom. :-)
And I'm sure,that over 99.9% of all I was taught in my home church,I never questioned. I was just that well brainwashed,to listen to and believe some people,instead of simply listening to and believing God. And as I've said in another post,right after God saved me, I went out at that Baptist Bible camp and told everyone in earshot,about what God had just done for me. :-) Well,I then wanted everyone to have the exact same type of relationship with God,as I then had. The day after this,was the end of the Bible camp and a brother and I went on to another town and to a church,where he knew some people there. While he talked to them,I looked for and found some gospel tracts there,got them and walked out on the street a ways. Stopped in front of a big store and started passing those tracts out to people,who were coming and going from there. I was scared! :-) Guess I was afraid someone might bite my head off or some such! :-) LoL But no one did and everyone was nice to me,smiling,etc. But I never said a word to anyone,for I was too scared to. :-) Well,I was a 16 year old kid,who was growing up in rural,small town NE Texas. The only people I knew that well,were from my small church and very small rural school. I think there were all of 15 kids,in my high school graduating class! And less than 40 members,in my local church! And I think I was seldom if ever in the presence of a stranger,without family or some friends around. Yet there I was 2,000 miles from home and passing out gospel tracts to people,who were complete strangers to me! So It was scared;but yet God,the love of God,compelled me to do such. For God had saved me, the day before and as I've said,I then wanted/desired for all people to then have the same type of relationship with God,as I then had. Then on the plane ride back home,I shared with my seatmate,about what God had just done for me. Back home and in church and I simply set in church and waited for church leadership to tell me what to do then. I thought we would have visitation and passing out of tracts,etc;but we never did. That really surprised me at first;but then I'd been taught there,that church leadership knew best and I was to follow there example. And what ever their teaching and example was, why,that had to be right and best. Or so I was brought up in church,taught to believe.
I still remember the first time I disobeyed church leadership and chose to obey God instead and that,simply because I knew it was the right thing to do. We had a 7 day church revival meeting every year and church people were expected to go out and invite others to that. I was out driving around one year and doing just that. Just going from house to house and inviting people to come to our revival meeting. Then I came upon a house where I saw several black men sitting out front. Now I knew my church leaders wouldn't want me inviting those men to our church. What to do?! Well,I did what I knew God would have me to do,I did what I knew was the right thing to do. I simply stopped, talked to them and invited them to our church revival meeting. I should put in here,my parents taught me right on this matter,before church leadership could teach me different and wrong. For in my growing up,both of my parents taught me,I was not to look up to or down on anyone,because of the material things they had or didn't have or because of the color of their skin. So my parents taught me right on that,before I was old enough to see that some of our church leadership felt and taught differently on the matter.
And I did love my home church pastor;but he was racist. An irony was,that in later years I found out that his "white" family,was actually part black! (ha) Then later on than that,I also learned that my "white" family,was also part black! (ha) And from a very young age, I knew I was part white and part Native American Indian. Then I found out,I also had some black ancestors. So as I put it then,I'm a perfectly good 100% American mutt! :-) LoL
And I agree with you about the RCC and Protestant churchs. They all have some things wrong. And in my time online,I've posted with some people from both groups. And made some mad at me,in each group. :-) And from somethings I've read,I would say you're also right in saying that the word church,is not scriptural. And you're right,that we, who are the presently saved of God in this age,we are the called out ones. For God calls out and saves people,at the time of God's choosing. P.S. I need to read some more about that,about the word church. I have read some on that in the past;but that's been awhile back now.
Racism is a sad fact of life that is really nonsense if you think about it because, if you go back far enough, we're all related. I would like to have seen the looks on the faces of the racist "Christians" when the black folks showed up for your revival. I attached a screenshot showing different translations of the Greek "ekklesia." I quit reading the King James Version and using the word "church" for "ecclesia" a long time ago. I know some folks like the word "church," but I think the "church" is the world religious organization distinct from the "ecclesia" which is the "body of Christ."
[attachment deleted by admin]
The Greek "ekklesia," accurately translated "ecclesia," originally had a secular connotation. An example of that can be seen in the attachment. You can see the AV (Authorized Version or King James Version) translates it the same as the YLT (Young's Literal Translation) in that verse.
[attachment deleted by admin]
Quote from: RonnyTX on October 18, 2014, 12:55:47 AM
Quote from: JBerton on October 16, 2014, 08:59:16 PM
Hello Ronny,
I enjoyed reading your testimony.
You truly are blessed to have been freed from the church/cult.
Keep searching for truth.
John, from Alabama - fellow Southerner/brother in Christ.
Ronny to John:
Tnank you John. :-) And you're right,that God surely has blessed me,by freeing me from the church/cult. But at one and the same time,I can also say I'm glad that God let me first go through such. For having personally gone through such and then having God deliver me from same,that makes me so greatly appreciate,what God did for me. And with the man made lies that God delivered me from,that makes me better able to help some others,who are going through and or have gone through the same. And I can't always put this is the best words;but this I know,no matter what God has chosen for me to go through,God will always bring good out of that,out of all things. And about that,I have not one doubt.
BTW,I still have some family,living in Alabama. :-) There's a late cousin,whose family still lives there. His wife and several of their kids and grandkids. And I used to have an uncle, who pastored a church in Alabama.
And I gotta tell you about a great Grandma of mine,who came from Alabama to NE Texas,in the 1880's. Her husband had died,she had two young children and one on the way. Well,after her husband's passing,she hitched up the mule to the wagon and headed for Texas,to live with a brother of hers,who was already here! This by herself,with two kids and her pregnant! When I first heard this part of my families history,I thought my, that Grandma of mine,she sure must of been one tough,hardheaded lady! :-) LoL
:thumbsup:
Funny, I had an ancestor from the same era who was informed that a relative in Texas had died and had left an inheritance to her. She was to go to Texas to claim it. But she refused to go. She emphatically stated, "I'm
not going to Texas! Going to Texas is like going to
hell! (I believe she was referring to the lawlessness of that time period in the "West," and maybe the hot summers too.) :laughing7: :laugh: :LH:
Quote from: rosered on October 19, 2014, 12:00:25 AM
Thanks Bro Ronnie
Yes making your "faith " known seems to be a problem when no one asks lol
the Lord said only "if they ask" to tell them of the hope in you gentle and mildly 1 Peter 3:15 :winkgrin:
I have found more divisions and "fire starters " in politic and religion than any other source it seems :eek:
More like get ready to "rumble " those sons of thunder
the problem for me was those insisting hell and eternal torture is real when they themselves have no idea what they are talking about or believe in
It was mostly what some other guy is teaching them to believe in
Is that really faith in God ? you have to wonder
My hope is the Lord will be as merciful to them as Jesus has been to us all
Because the truth be told there is not a soul on the face of the earth that does not need Gods Love , mercy and grace , no matter what condition they are in
:flowerred:
Ronny to Rosered:
Amen! :-) For we all truly do need God's love,grace and mercy and we all do have it,it's just some don't know and understand that yet;but they will,when God shows them! :-) And I by no means always understand how this can be so;but I do know that everything God brings into our life,is for our own good and that God will bring good,out of even the worst of things in our life. I do know that there are somethings that have come about in my life,things that I would not even wish on my worst enemy. And when such happened to me,God was with me every step of the way. God was with me as I went through such and God was with me,when God brought me out of such. So in my life,God has definately brought good,out of that which was evil. God can do that and does do such. Which is the reason,I have no reason to give up,no matter what.
What I speak of now,is just a smaller matter,in the whole scheme of things. I think I'm about 99% over,a recent illness. :-) One that lasted,for several weeks. I'm still very weak at times;but not so much at others. And so glad,I am now back to being able to walk my small dog,2 or 3 times a day. :-) At it's worst,I thought 2 or 3 times,that I really should go in the hospital;but I never told my sister that,because when push came to shove,I really didn't want to go there! :-) Then main thing,I was afraid they wouldn't let me use my e-cig there! :-( LoL I've smoked cigarettes for 44 years,started on and off using an e-cig about 3 years ago,got real serious on using those last fall and smoked my last cigarette around 6 months ago now. Since then,I've used some e-cigs I bought,at a local tobacco shop. And though I still use them and like them,I've also cut down on the use of those. Don't feel the need to use them,as much as I did at first. But during my recent illness,there were times I thought I should really go in the local hospital. Had a lot of trouble at times,just getting out of bed or getting up out of a recliner. My lower leg muscles and or tendons,would be all cramped up and I would finally manage to get up by using my arm muscles and holding on to something. The end of the bed or the arm of a recliner. Then hobble across the room,as I held on to some other things. Then just walk back and forth in a room,as my lower leg muscles or tendons,slowly uncramped! (ha) And I did my best to never do this,while my older sister was around to see such! LoL And that was just one part of the overall problems. Yeah,things got bad enough at times,I thought I really should be in the hospital. And yeah,at its worst,things got bad enough I did think at times,it would be better to simply be dead. I even had a few thoughts of suicide and even thought of some few ways I might do that. But the only ways I thought of and or had handy,I considered too,I would probably just bungle things up and make things worse! :-) So no,even though I had thoughts of such,I never considered such seriously. Yet,in this and in some other things I have gone through in life,I can see why some people have considered such seriously and even done such. Yeah,I can understand that. I can understand,why some people get to that place and point. But during the worst of my recent illness,I also thought on the fact of things that God had brought me through,in the past. And I considered how much God/Jesus Christ loved me. Also thought on the fact,that in the past,the right meds had got me over illness like this. And I also thought about somethings,that I would simply like to do,once I got well and was able to. :-) And I had to consider as well,that no matter what God brings into my life,no matter how bad such things are at the time,well,God has always brought good out of such. :-) And God has always used such,for me to be able to help others,who have gone though the same or something similar.
And above,you spoke of people who believe in hell and eternal torment. Believe that because some person or persons have taught them to believe such. Been there and done that,until I was around 55 years old. And no,I didn't believe that because I was trusting God and or putting my faith in God;but I believed that simply because I was brought up in a local church and taught to believe such there. I was taught to believe,by some people,that hell and its torments were real. They said they spoke for God on the matter and spoke the same as God did. They didn't;but they convinced/brainwashed me into believing they did and they taught me to never question their word on such. Well,from a young child up,they taught me that if I questioned or doubted what they said,I was questioning and doubting God. And if I disagreed with anything they taught as truth, then I was calling God a liar! Well,in church I was taught to treat some peoples words,as if I was hearing directly from God on a matter. So,in church I was taught to have great faith, in some persons words to me. And though I didn't see it or understand it this way at the time,that was me being taught to have great faith in some people,in what they said;but not in God. Yet I was taught for me to have great faith in what some people said,was one and the same,as my having faith in God and what God says. It wasn't;but at the time I was under such brainwashing,I believed that it was.
I've got ants in my pants today! :-) Have got up several times and just walked about some;both inside and outside. It's hard for me to sit still,when I think about some things, that I might like to do! :-) LoL
Quote from: Tom on October 19, 2014, 12:17:46 AM
Quote from: RonnyTX on October 18, 2014, 01:45:09 AM
Quote from: Tom on October 16, 2014, 09:27:35 PM
One of the problems with the church is folks are taught to not question its authority not because it's the mediator between God and man but because the church doesn't have the answers to your questions. Only Christ is the mediator between God and man, and I think only the inspired written word of God has your answers. You need to read an accurate translation though. My questions led me to leave the Roman Catholic Church in my teens and then the Protestant Church a few years later because both contradict the word of God. Now, when I say "church," I mean both because they both have the same basic doctrine even though Rome has some extra crazy stuff going on. The word "church" is not even scriptural. It is an intentional mistranslation of the Greek "ekklesia," literally "out-called," accurately translated "ecclesia" which is the "body of Christ" called out of the world. The church is part of the world system. You were right to question despite the warning. That's how you eventually found the truth. God bless you.
Ronny to Tom:
Thank you Tom. :-)
And I'm sure,that over 99.9% of all I was taught in my home church,I never questioned. I was just that well brainwashed,to listen to and believe some people,instead of simply listening to and believing God. And as I've said in another post,right after God saved me, I went out at that Baptist Bible camp and told everyone in earshot,about what God had just done for me. :-) Well,I then wanted everyone to have the exact same type of relationship with God,as I then had. The day after this,was the end of the Bible camp and a brother and I went on to another town and to a church,where he knew some people there. While he talked to them,I looked for and found some gospel tracts there,got them and walked out on the street a ways. Stopped in front of a big store and started passing those tracts out to people,who were coming and going from there. I was scared! :-) Guess I was afraid someone might bite my head off or some such! :-) LoL But no one did and everyone was nice to me,smiling,etc. But I never said a word to anyone,for I was too scared to. :-) Well,I was a 16 year old kid,who was growing up in rural,small town NE Texas. The only people I knew that well,were from my small church and very small rural school. I think there were all of 15 kids,in my high school graduating class! And less than 40 members,in my local church! And I think I was seldom if ever in the presence of a stranger,without family or some friends around. Yet there I was 2,000 miles from home and passing out gospel tracts to people,who were complete strangers to me! So It was scared;but yet God,the love of God,compelled me to do such. For God had saved me, the day before and as I've said,I then wanted/desired for all people to then have the same type of relationship with God,as I then had. Then on the plane ride back home,I shared with my seatmate,about what God had just done for me. Back home and in church and I simply set in church and waited for church leadership to tell me what to do then. I thought we would have visitation and passing out of tracts,etc;but we never did. That really surprised me at first;but then I'd been taught there,that church leadership knew best and I was to follow there example. And what ever their teaching and example was, why,that had to be right and best. Or so I was brought up in church,taught to believe.
I still remember the first time I disobeyed church leadership and chose to obey God instead and that,simply because I knew it was the right thing to do. We had a 7 day church revival meeting every year and church people were expected to go out and invite others to that. I was out driving around one year and doing just that. Just going from house to house and inviting people to come to our revival meeting. Then I came upon a house where I saw several black men sitting out front. Now I knew my church leaders wouldn't want me inviting those men to our church. What to do?! Well,I did what I knew God would have me to do,I did what I knew was the right thing to do. I simply stopped, talked to them and invited them to our church revival meeting. I should put in here,my parents taught me right on this matter,before church leadership could teach me different and wrong. For in my growing up,both of my parents taught me,I was not to look up to or down on anyone,because of the material things they had or didn't have or because of the color of their skin. So my parents taught me right on that,before I was old enough to see that some of our church leadership felt and taught differently on the matter.
And I did love my home church pastor;but he was racist. An irony was,that in later years I found out that his "white" family,was actually part black! (ha) Then later on than that,I also learned that my "white" family,was also part black! (ha) And from a very young age, I knew I was part white and part Native American Indian. Then I found out,I also had some black ancestors. So as I put it then,I'm a perfectly good 100% American mutt! :-) LoL
And I agree with you about the RCC and Protestant churchs. They all have some things wrong. And in my time online,I've posted with some people from both groups. And made some mad at me,in each group. :-) And from somethings I've read,I would say you're also right in saying that the word church,is not scriptural. And you're right,that we, who are the presently saved of God in this age,we are the called out ones. For God calls out and saves people,at the time of God's choosing. P.S. I need to read some more about that,about the word church. I have read some on that in the past;but that's been awhile back now.
Tom to Ronny:
Racism is a sad fact of life that is really nonsense if you think about it because, if you go back far enough, we're all related. I would like to have seen the looks on the faces of the racist "Christians" when the black folks showed up for your revival. I attached a screenshot showing different translations of the Greek "ekklesia." I quit reading the King James Version and using the word "church" for "ecclesia" a long time ago. I know some folks like the word "church," but I think the "church" is the world religious organization distinct from the "ecclesia" which is the "body of Christ."
Ronny to Tom:
Thank you for that. :-) And as I've said,I need to do more reading and studying on such.
I have done some previously and can see why the word church is not a good translation. But if and when I use the word church,I simply mean those who have been born of God.
Recently,I was reading in a BMA Baptist monthly paper. My oldest Sis gets that,because she's a BMA church member. In one article,a guy was telling why he was proud to be a Baptist;but before he finished, he made it plain that what he was proud of being,was a BMA Baptist,thank you! :-) I have thought about emailing him and simply asking him, if he believes the BMA,is the one and only true church of God? Because I'm not sure how they believe and teach on that part?
And you're right,that racism is a sad fact of life and right as well,that all us human beings are related! :-) After all,we all come from God and by way of our first earthly parents, Adam and Eve. So as I put it,we're all at least cousins,somewhere along the line! :-) But I also know that there are some white people who say and believe,that only white people are truly human and that black people,at best,are simply a higher form of animal. And such people say that with a straight face,while saying they are Christian and that they get such from the Bible! (ha)
And the black guys I once invited to the local church I was in then,they didn't come. I told my oldest Sis about this,in later years. She said,well,they wouldn't of felt welcomed there and they knew that. When I looked back on it in later years,I realized they would of been welcomed there by some people;but then,not by all. And recently,I mentioned this again to my oldest Sis and I was astounded when she said,she wouldn't go to a black church and that because she would have so little in common with the church members there! Yeah,that really astounded me,because I thought,you would have little in common,with your fellow Christians?! That simply makes no sense. For as Paul the apostle well said; Jew or Gentile,male of female,bond or free,etc,etc,we are all one in Jesus Christ! :-)
Quote from: Tom on October 19, 2014, 12:31:21 AM
The Greek "ekklesia," accurately translated "ecclesia," originally had a secular connotation. An example of that can be seen in the attachment. You can see the AV (Authorized Version or King James Version) translates it the same as the YLT (Young's Literal Translation) in that verse.
Ronny to Tom:
Thank you again for that. :-) And I'm still learning how to do somethings,on this Chromebook laptop that I have. So I couldn't figure out how to save that webpage you posted a link to, to a file folder? But I did go over to Google search,found the Interlinear Scripture Analyzer there and got that saved to a file folder! :-)
Quote from: JBerton on October 20, 2014, 04:48:11 PM
Quote from: RonnyTX on October 18, 2014, 12:55:47 AM
Quote from: JBerton on October 16, 2014, 08:59:16 PM
Hello Ronny,
I enjoyed reading your testimony.
You truly are blessed to have been freed from the church/cult.
Keep searching for truth.
John, from Alabama - fellow Southerner/brother in Christ.
Ronny to John:
Tnank you John. :-) And you're right,that God surely has blessed me,by freeing me from the church/cult. But at one and the same time,I can also say I'm glad that God let me first go through such. For having personally gone through such and then having God deliver me from same,that makes me so greatly appreciate,what God did for me. And with the man made lies that God delivered me from,that makes me better able to help some others,who are going through and or have gone through the same. And I can't always put this is the best words;but this I know,no matter what God has chosen for me to go through,God will always bring good out of that,out of all things. And about that,I have not one doubt.
BTW,I still have some family,living in Alabama. :-) There's a late cousin,whose family still lives there. His wife and several of their kids and grandkids. And I used to have an uncle, who pastored a church in Alabama.
And I gotta tell you about a great Grandma of mine,who came from Alabama to NE Texas,in the 1880's. Her husband had died,she had two young children and one on the way. Well,after her husband's passing,she hitched up the mule to the wagon and headed for Texas,to live with a brother of hers,who was already here! This by herself,with two kids and her pregnant! When I first heard this part of my families history,I thought my, that Grandma of mine,she sure must of been one tough,hardheaded lady! :-) LoL
:thumbsup:
Funny, I had an ancestor from the same era who was informed that a relative in Texas had died and had left an inheritance to her. She was to go to Texas to claim it. But she refused to go. She emphatically stated, "I'm not going to Texas! Going to Texas is like going to hell! (I believe she was referring to the lawlessness of that time period in the "West," and maybe the hot summers too.) :laughing7: :laugh: :LH:
Ronny to JBerton:
LoL Good one! :-) LoL
Quote from: RonnyTX on October 20, 2014, 08:16:33 PM
Quote from: rosered on October 19, 2014, 12:00:25 AM
Thanks Bro Ronnie
Yes making your "faith " known seems to be a problem when no one asks lol
the Lord said only "if they ask" to tell them of the hope in you gentle and mildly 1 Peter 3:15 :winkgrin:
I have found more divisions and "fire starters " in politic and religion than any other source it seems :eek:
More like get ready to "rumble " those sons of thunder
the problem for me was those insisting hell and eternal torture is real when they themselves have no idea what they are talking about or believe in
It was mostly what some other guy is teaching them to believe in
Is that really faith in God ? you have to wonder
My hope is the Lord will be as merciful to them as Jesus has been to us all
Because the truth be told there is not a soul on the face of the earth that does not need Gods Love , mercy and grace , no matter what condition they are in
:flowerred:
Ronny to Rosered:
Amen! :-) For we all truly do need God's love,grace and mercy and we all do have it,it's just some don't know and understand that yet;but they will,when God shows them! :-) And I by no means always understand how this can be so;but I do know that everything God brings into our life,is for our own good and that God will bring good,out of even the worst of things in our life. I do know that there are somethings that have come about in my life,things that I would not even wish on my worst enemy. And when such happened to me,God was with me every step of the way. God was with me as I went through such and God was with me,when God brought me out of such. So in my life,God has definately brought good,out of that which was evil. God can do that and does do such. Which is the reason,I have no reason to give up,no matter what.
What I speak of now,is just a smaller matter,in the whole scheme of things. I think I'm about 99% over,a recent illness. :-) One that lasted,for several weeks. I'm still very weak at times;but not so much at others. And so glad,I am now back to being able to walk my small dog,2 or 3 times a day. :-) At it's worst,I thought 2 or 3 times,that I really should go in the hospital;but I never told my sister that,because when push came to shove,I really didn't want to go there! :-) Then main thing,I was afraid they wouldn't let me use my e-cig there! :-( LoL I've smoked cigarettes for 44 years,started on and off using an e-cig about 3 years ago,got real serious on using those last fall and smoked my last cigarette around 6 months ago now. Since then,I've used some e-cigs I bought,at a local tobacco shop. And though I still use them and like them,I've also cut down on the use of those. Don't feel the need to use them,as much as I did at first. But during my recent illness,there were times I thought I should really go in the local hospital. Had a lot of trouble at times,just getting out of bed or getting up out of a recliner. My lower leg muscles and or tendons,would be all cramped up and I would finally manage to get up by using my arm muscles and holding on to something. The end of the bed or the arm of a recliner. Then hobble across the room,as I held on to some other things. Then just walk back and forth in a room,as my lower leg muscles or tendons,slowly uncramped! (ha) And I did my best to never do this,while my older sister was around to see such! LoL And that was just one part of the overall problems. Yeah,things got bad enough at times,I thought I really should be in the hospital. And yeah,at its worst,things got bad enough I did think at times,it would be better to simply be dead. I even had a few thoughts of suicide and even thought of some few ways I might do that. But the only ways I thought of and or had handy,I considered too,I would probably just bungle things up and make things worse! :-) So no,even though I had thoughts of such,I never considered such seriously. Yet,in this and in some other things I have gone through in life,I can see why some people have considered such seriously and even done such. Yeah,I can understand that. I can understand,why some people get to that place and point. But during the worst of my recent illness,I also thought on the fact of things that God had brought me through,in the past. And I considered how much God/Jesus Christ loved me. Also thought on the fact,that in the past,the right meds had got me over illness like this. And I also thought about somethings,that I would simply like to do,once I got well and was able to. :-) And I had to consider as well,that no matter what God brings into my life,no matter how bad such things are at the time,well,God has always brought good out of such. :-) And God has always used such,for me to be able to help others,who have gone though the same or something similar.
And above,you spoke of people who believe in hell and eternal torment. Believe that because some person or persons have taught them to believe such. Been there and done that,until I was around 55 years old. And no,I didn't believe that because I was trusting God and or putting my faith in God;but I believed that simply because I was brought up in a local church and taught to believe such there. I was taught to believe,by some people,that hell and its torments were real. They said they spoke for God on the matter and spoke the same as God did. They didn't;but they convinced/brainwashed me into believing they did and they taught me to never question their word on such. Well,from a young child up,they taught me that if I questioned or doubted what they said,I was questioning and doubting God. And if I disagreed with anything they taught as truth, then I was calling God a liar! Well,in church I was taught to treat some peoples words,as if I was hearing directly from God on a matter. So,in church I was taught to have great faith, in some persons words to me. And though I didn't see it or understand it this way at the time,that was me being taught to have great faith in some people,in what they said;but not in God. Yet I was taught for me to have great faith in what some people said,was one and the same,as my having faith in God and what God says. It wasn't;but at the time I was under such brainwashing,I believed that it was.
I've got ants in my pants today! :-) Have got up several times and just walked about some;both inside and outside. It's hard for me to sit still,when I think about some things, that I might like to do! :-) LoL
wow you have been though many things Bro Ronnie
so glad you are on the mend now ,
I too was brainwashed into thinking hell and the fiery pits of Gehenna was awaiting everyone 90 % of the population
I trusted , that is what you are supposed to do right ?
and kept hoping God would save me if I tried real hard
wore out doing all that they asked and it seemed so fake to me
I had questions real ones and they never had a good answer to them , it did not settle with peace in my soul right .
One day sitting on the church pew the preacher was using this man as an example , he saw mowing his lawn and judged that poor fellow as to not being in church
and something SPOKE within asked me do you believe that ?
I said NO , GOD can save anyone any where any time HE IS GOD !
and than asked why are you here ?
I left and never looked back
and my sister has been a huge help for the family
so many things happened and your right in the evil of chaos Gods good was always found !!
Love saves us all , not fear and despising :flowerred:
Quote from: RonnyTX on October 20, 2014, 09:01:42 PM
Quote from: Tom on October 19, 2014, 12:17:46 AM
Quote from: RonnyTX on October 18, 2014, 01:45:09 AM
Quote from: Tom on October 16, 2014, 09:27:35 PM
One of the problems with the church is folks are taught to not question its authority not because it's the mediator between God and man but because the church doesn't have the answers to your questions. Only Christ is the mediator between God and man, and I think only the inspired written word of God has your answers. You need to read an accurate translation though. My questions led me to leave the Roman Catholic Church in my teens and then the Protestant Church a few years later because both contradict the word of God. Now, when I say "church," I mean both because they both have the same basic doctrine even though Rome has some extra crazy stuff going on. The word "church" is not even scriptural. It is an intentional mistranslation of the Greek "ekklesia," literally "out-called," accurately translated "ecclesia" which is the "body of Christ" called out of the world. The church is part of the world system. You were right to question despite the warning. That's how you eventually found the truth. God bless you.
Ronny to Tom:
Thank you Tom. :-)
And I'm sure,that over 99.9% of all I was taught in my home church,I never questioned. I was just that well brainwashed,to listen to and believe some people,instead of simply listening to and believing God. And as I've said in another post,right after God saved me, I went out at that Baptist Bible camp and told everyone in earshot,about what God had just done for me. :-) Well,I then wanted everyone to have the exact same type of relationship with God,as I then had. The day after this,was the end of the Bible camp and a brother and I went on to another town and to a church,where he knew some people there. While he talked to them,I looked for and found some gospel tracts there,got them and walked out on the street a ways. Stopped in front of a big store and started passing those tracts out to people,who were coming and going from there. I was scared! :-) Guess I was afraid someone might bite my head off or some such! :-) LoL But no one did and everyone was nice to me,smiling,etc. But I never said a word to anyone,for I was too scared to. :-) Well,I was a 16 year old kid,who was growing up in rural,small town NE Texas. The only people I knew that well,were from my small church and very small rural school. I think there were all of 15 kids,in my high school graduating class! And less than 40 members,in my local church! And I think I was seldom if ever in the presence of a stranger,without family or some friends around. Yet there I was 2,000 miles from home and passing out gospel tracts to people,who were complete strangers to me! So It was scared;but yet God,the love of God,compelled me to do such. For God had saved me, the day before and as I've said,I then wanted/desired for all people to then have the same type of relationship with God,as I then had. Then on the plane ride back home,I shared with my seatmate,about what God had just done for me. Back home and in church and I simply set in church and waited for church leadership to tell me what to do then. I thought we would have visitation and passing out of tracts,etc;but we never did. That really surprised me at first;but then I'd been taught there,that church leadership knew best and I was to follow there example. And what ever their teaching and example was, why,that had to be right and best. Or so I was brought up in church,taught to believe.
I still remember the first time I disobeyed church leadership and chose to obey God instead and that,simply because I knew it was the right thing to do. We had a 7 day church revival meeting every year and church people were expected to go out and invite others to that. I was out driving around one year and doing just that. Just going from house to house and inviting people to come to our revival meeting. Then I came upon a house where I saw several black men sitting out front. Now I knew my church leaders wouldn't want me inviting those men to our church. What to do?! Well,I did what I knew God would have me to do,I did what I knew was the right thing to do. I simply stopped, talked to them and invited them to our church revival meeting. I should put in here,my parents taught me right on this matter,before church leadership could teach me different and wrong. For in my growing up,both of my parents taught me,I was not to look up to or down on anyone,because of the material things they had or didn't have or because of the color of their skin. So my parents taught me right on that,before I was old enough to see that some of our church leadership felt and taught differently on the matter.
And I did love my home church pastor;but he was racist. An irony was,that in later years I found out that his "white" family,was actually part black! (ha) Then later on than that,I also learned that my "white" family,was also part black! (ha) And from a very young age, I knew I was part white and part Native American Indian. Then I found out,I also had some black ancestors. So as I put it then,I'm a perfectly good 100% American mutt! :-) LoL
And I agree with you about the RCC and Protestant churchs. They all have some things wrong. And in my time online,I've posted with some people from both groups. And made some mad at me,in each group. :-) And from somethings I've read,I would say you're also right in saying that the word church,is not scriptural. And you're right,that we, who are the presently saved of God in this age,we are the called out ones. For God calls out and saves people,at the time of God's choosing. P.S. I need to read some more about that,about the word church. I have read some on that in the past;but that's been awhile back now.
Tom to Ronny:
Racism is a sad fact of life that is really nonsense if you think about it because, if you go back far enough, we're all related. I would like to have seen the looks on the faces of the racist "Christians" when the black folks showed up for your revival. I attached a screenshot showing different translations of the Greek "ekklesia." I quit reading the King James Version and using the word "church" for "ecclesia" a long time ago. I know some folks like the word "church," but I think the "church" is the world religious organization distinct from the "ecclesia" which is the "body of Christ."
Ronny to Tom:
Thank you for that. :-) And as I've said,I need to do more reading and studying on such.
I have done some previously and can see why the word church is not a good translation. But if and when I use the word church,I simply mean those who have been born of God.
Recently,I was reading in a BMA Baptist monthly paper. My oldest Sis gets that,because she's a BMA church member. In one article,a guy was telling why he was proud to be a Baptist;but before he finished, he made it plain that what he was proud of being,was a BMA Baptist,thank you! :-) I have thought about emailing him and simply asking him, if he believes the BMA,is the one and only true church of God? Because I'm not sure how they believe and teach on that part?
And you're right,that racism is a sad fact of life and right as well,that all us human beings are related! :-) After all,we all come from God and by way of our first earthly parents, Adam and Eve. So as I put it,we're all at least cousins,somewhere along the line! :-) But I also know that there are some white people who say and believe,that only white people are truly human and that black people,at best,are simply a higher form of animal. And such people say that with a straight face,while saying they are Christian and that they get such from the Bible! (ha)
And the black guys I once invited to the local church I was in then,they didn't come. I told my oldest Sis about this,in later years. She said,well,they wouldn't of felt welcomed there and they knew that. When I looked back on it in later years,I realized they would of been welcomed there by some people;but then,not by all. And recently,I mentioned this again to my oldest Sis and I was astounded when she said,she wouldn't go to a black church and that because she would have so little in common with the church members there! Yeah,that really astounded me,because I thought,you would have little in common,with your fellow Christians?! That simply makes no sense. For as Paul the apostle well said; Jew or Gentile,male of female,bond or free,etc,etc,we are all one in Jesus Christ! :-)
The white "Christians" who say black folks aren't human and only "a higher form of animal" are preaching the lie of evolution that Eugenicists used to rationalize mass sterilizations and that Hitler used to rationalize killing a whole lot of folks. Those so called "Christians" who claim to be Bible believing must have missed this part.
"For the entire law is fulfilled in one word, in this: "You shall love your associate as yourself."" (Galatians 5:14)
Quote from: RonnyTX on October 18, 2014, 09:51:07 PM
Quote from: Lazarus Short on October 18, 2014, 05:32:58 AM
Quote from: Tom on October 16, 2014, 09:27:35 PM
The church is part of the world system.
Lazarus to Tom:
Yes, it is. Your words above jelled my thinking as I realized that most churches (if not all of them) are run on a business model, and having IRS agents tell them what they can and cannot say from the pulpit in keep their precious tax exemption makes them a de-facto State Church. World system indeed! Doctrine can get awfully worldly too... :sigh:
Ronny to Lazarus:
I wonder if most local churches are denominational churches? And then there are the really huge mega churches,that I've heard about. Somehow,I've got the idea that most of the latter are independent and not denominational type churches. Don't know if that's right of not?
The church I grew up in,was a very small independent,nondenominational type church. And the only ones we claimed kin too,were those local churches just like us in belief and teaching. I was brought up in that Calvinist type church,being taught that we and those exactly like us in belief,constituted the one and only true church of God. When I was around 14 years old,I was shocked when my Mom told me that our pastor was wrong, in his belief about who the church consisted of. She believed the church consisted of all those,who had been born of God and not just those,who were our particular type of
Calvinistic Baptist in belief and teaching. Well,I was shocked,that my Mom disagreed with our pastor on this. I has been taught by him and some other of the church leadership, that they always spoke for God,spoke,taught and believed nothing,but exactly what God said. And I had simply believed that my Mom and all of the adults in our church, believed exactly as out church leadership taught. And I don't remember how I did it back then; but somehow I worked it out in my 14 year old mind,how my Mom and the pastor could both be right! (ha) :-)
Now,at 59 years old and for sometime now,I simply believe that the church/body of Jesus Christ consists of all those persons who have been born of God. And each one of us may or may not also be a member of this or that man made denominational type church. Personally,I think we are scattered throughout those type churches and some of us outside of them as well. But where ever we may be that way,each one of us in a member of the body/church of Jesus Christ and that because we have been put there by God,
when we were born of God.
Ronny, it sounds like you have ears to hear and the ability to see what you are looking at. The churches say much about "getting saved," but stress little that it is both a done deal and a process taking a lifetime. From our merely human viewpoint, many things about God seem to be a paradox (more than just two doctors... :laughing7:).
Quote from: Tom on October 19, 2014, 12:31:21 AM
The Greek "ekklesia," accurately translated "ecclesia," originally had a secular connotation. An example of that can be seen in the attachment. You can see the AV (Authorized Version or King James Version) translates it the same as the YLT (Young's Literal Translation) in that verse.
ekklesia may have had a secular connotation among the Greeks, but I don't believe it has a secular connotation in the scripture.
Eph 1:19-23 That power is the same as the mighty strength he exerted when he raised Christ from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And
God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church(ekklesia), which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.Jesus is Head over a spiritual body, the heavenly assembly- not a secular one.
Hebrews 12:22-24 But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem.
You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, to the church(ekklesia) of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.
Thayer's Greek 1577
ἐκκλησία, ἐκκλεσιας, ἡ (from ἔκκλητος called out or forth, and this from ἐκκαλέω);
properly, a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place; an assembly; so used
1. among the Greeks from Thucydides (cf. Herodotus 3, 142) down, an assembly of the people convened at the public place of council for the purpose of deliberating: Acts 19:39.
2.
in the Sept. often equivalent to קָהָל, the assembly of the Israelites, Judges 21:8; 1 Chronicles 29:1, etc.,
especially when gathered for sacred purposes, Deuteronomy 31:30 (Deuteronomy 32:1); Joshua 8:35 (Joshua 9:8), etc.; in the N. T. thus in Acts 7:38; Hebrews 2:12.
Strong's Concordance
qahal: assembly, convocation, congregationOriginal Word: קָהָל
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: qahal
Phonetic Spelling: (kaw-hawl')
Short Definition:
assemblyEsther 8:11 Wherein the king granted the Jews which [were] in every city to
gather themselves together(qahal- קָהָל),
Right, "ecclesia" is literally "out-called," and it usually refers to those of us called out of the world to be the "body of Christ." Acts 19:32 just shows how the word was used for a secular purpose.
Quote from: rosered on October 21, 2014, 12:03:19 AM
Quote from: RonnyTX on October 20, 2014, 08:16:33 PM
Quote from: rosered on October 19, 2014, 12:00:25 AM
Thanks Bro Ronnie
Yes making your "faith " known seems to be a problem when no one asks lol
the Lord said only "if they ask" to tell them of the hope in you gentle and mildly 1 Peter 3:15 :winkgrin:
I have found more divisions and "fire starters " in politic and religion than any other source it seems :eek:
More like get ready to "rumble " those sons of thunder
the problem for me was those insisting hell and eternal torture is real when they themselves have no idea what they are talking about or believe in
It was mostly what some other guy is teaching them to believe in
Is that really faith in God ? you have to wonder
My hope is the Lord will be as merciful to them as Jesus has been to us all
Because the truth be told there is not a soul on the face of the earth that does not need Gods Love , mercy and grace , no matter what condition they are in
:flowerred:
Ronny to Rosered:
Amen! :-) For we all truly do need God's love,grace and mercy and we all do have it,it's just some don't know and understand that yet;but they will,when God shows them! :-) And I by no means always understand how this can be so;but I do know that everything God brings into our life,is for our own good and that God will bring good,out of even the worst of things in our life. I do know that there are somethings that have come about in my life,things that I would not even wish on my worst enemy. And when such happened to me,God was with me every step of the way. God was with me as I went through such and God was with me,when God brought me out of such. So in my life,God has definately brought good,out of that which was evil. God can do that and does do such. Which is the reason,I have no reason to give up,no matter what.
What I speak of now,is just a smaller matter,in the whole scheme of things. I think I'm about 99% over,a recent illness. :-) One that lasted,for several weeks. I'm still very weak at times;but not so much at others. And so glad,I am now back to being able to walk my small dog,2 or 3 times a day. :-) At it's worst,I thought 2 or 3 times,that I really should go in the hospital;but I never told my sister that,because when push came to shove,I really didn't want to go there! :-) Then main thing,I was afraid they wouldn't let me use my e-cig there! :-( LoL I've smoked cigarettes for 44 years,started on and off using an e-cig about 3 years ago,got real serious on using those last fall and smoked my last cigarette around 6 months ago now. Since then,I've used some e-cigs I bought,at a local tobacco shop. And though I still use them and like them,I've also cut down on the use of those. Don't feel the need to use them,as much as I did at first. But during my recent illness,there were times I thought I should really go in the local hospital. Had a lot of trouble at times,just getting out of bed or getting up out of a recliner. My lower leg muscles and or tendons,would be all cramped up and I would finally manage to get up by using my arm muscles and holding on to something. The end of the bed or the arm of a recliner. Then hobble across the room,as I held on to some other things. Then just walk back and forth in a room,as my lower leg muscles or tendons,slowly uncramped! (ha) And I did my best to never do this,while my older sister was around to see such! LoL And that was just one part of the overall problems. Yeah,things got bad enough at times,I thought I really should be in the hospital. And yeah,at its worst,things got bad enough I did think at times,it would be better to simply be dead. I even had a few thoughts of suicide and even thought of some few ways I might do that. But the only ways I thought of and or had handy,I considered too,I would probably just bungle things up and make things worse! :-) So no,even though I had thoughts of such,I never considered such seriously. Yet,in this and in some other things I have gone through in life,I can see why some people have considered such seriously and even done such. Yeah,I can understand that. I can understand,why some people get to that place and point. But during the worst of my recent illness,I also thought on the fact of things that God had brought me through,in the past. And I considered how much God/Jesus Christ loved me. Also thought on the fact,that in the past,the right meds had got me over illness like this. And I also thought about somethings,that I would simply like to do,once I got well and was able to. :-) And I had to consider as well,that no matter what God brings into my life,no matter how bad such things are at the time,well,God has always brought good out of such. :-) And God has always used such,for me to be able to help others,who have gone though the same or something similar.
And above,you spoke of people who believe in hell and eternal torment. Believe that because some person or persons have taught them to believe such. Been there and done that,until I was around 55 years old. And no,I didn't believe that because I was trusting God and or putting my faith in God;but I believed that simply because I was brought up in a local church and taught to believe such there. I was taught to believe,by some people,that hell and its torments were real. They said they spoke for God on the matter and spoke the same as God did. They didn't;but they convinced/brainwashed me into believing they did and they taught me to never question their word on such. Well,from a young child up,they taught me that if I questioned or doubted what they said,I was questioning and doubting God. And if I disagreed with anything they taught as truth, then I was calling God a liar! Well,in church I was taught to treat some peoples words,as if I was hearing directly from God on a matter. So,in church I was taught to have great faith, in some persons words to me. And though I didn't see it or understand it this way at the time,that was me being taught to have great faith in some people,in what they said;but not in God. Yet I was taught for me to have great faith in what some people said,was one and the same,as my having faith in God and what God says. It wasn't;but at the time I was under such brainwashing,I believed that it was.
I've got ants in my pants today! :-) Have got up several times and just walked about some;both inside and outside. It's hard for me to sit still,when I think about some things, that I might like to do! :-) LoL
Rosered to Ronny
wow you have been though many things Bro Ronnie
so glad you are on the mend
Ronny to Rosered:
Thank you. :-) And I have one more doctors appointment tomorrow. Most everything looking real good now. :-) And I hope she will tell me that I can stop taking/using the two medicines she prescribed me. Maybe,seeing how far things have healed up now? But one thing I'm using is a steriod ointment and with that,I'm supposed to only get out in the sunlight,for a limited amount of time. I can't like that, 'cause as I've gotten to feeling better,I want to be outside,a lot more! :-) Well,it's cooled off here now and since fall has to NE Texas,I would like to start a fall garden. :-) Would have to take it slow,until my strength builds up;but still,I really would like to get on with,just making a start on such! :-)
Rosered to Ronny:
now ,
I too was brainwashed into thinking hell and the fiery pits of Gehenna was awaiting everyone 90 % of the population
I trusted , that is what you are supposed to do right ?
and kept hoping God would save me if I tried real hard
wore out doing all that they asked and it seemed so fake to me
I had questions real ones and they never had a good answer to them , it did not settle with peace in my soul right .
Ronny to Rosered:
Yes,that is so much the way,so many of us are taught in church. Falsely taught to believe,that to believe and trust church leaders,is the same as us believing and trusting God.
And as I've said,I'm too hard of hearing now,even with a hearing aid,to get any good out of going to a local church;but I am so glad there are church programs on TV,that are captioned for the dear/hard of hearing! :-) I watch 4 of those,on a fairly regular basis. And starting 19 years ago,God especially started using one of those preacheres,to help me. This one preacher,he taught a lot on listening to God,talking to God and asking God. And he made it very plain,that there is only one God and he or no other preacher is that! :-) And he said,the worst he got upset in church,was when some people treated him,as if he were God! Now I never agreed with this preacher on everything and I still don't;but God used him to help me. And what I much appreciate in him,is how he expressed love and caring for all other people and that he has humility. I appreciate that in any preacher I see such in,no matter that I don't agree with them just alike,on everything. I don't have to,for God to use such people,to bless me.
Rosered to Ronny:
One day sitting on the church pew the preacher was using this man as an example , he saw mowing his lawn and judged that poor fellow as to not being in church
and something SPOKE within asked me do you believe that ?
I said NO , GOD can save anyone any where any time HE IS GOD !
and than asked why are you here ?
Ronny to Rosered:
Amen! :-)
Ronny to Rosered:
I left and never looked back
and my sister has been a huge help for the family
so many things happened and your right in the evil of chaos Gods good was always found !!
Ronny to Rosered:
Amen! :-) And though we may not always see it and understand it at the time,we can still know that it's there and that God will bring good,out of all evil! :-)
Rosered to Rommy:
Love saves us all , not fear and despising :flowerred:
Ronny to Rosered:
Amen and amen! :-) And God is love! :-) And the only ones that Jesus Christ gave what for to,at times in the Bible,is the self righteous religious folk,who thought they were better than everyone else! (ha) LoL And God did the same for me. First,when God was saving me and showed me my sinful selfrighteousness and let me compare myself and that,to God and God's holiness. And as I say,when God did that for me,I didn't come off looking good at all! LoL But that was the goodness of God,that led me to repentance towards God. :-) Then in the year after God saved me,I stumbled back into that self righteousness some. Not as bad as I had been;but I still went back into that some. And he next year,this older brother and I,we were back at that same Bible camp,where God had saved me,the year before. Well,wouldn't you know,for the entire solid week,the young peoples teacher,he taught on nothing;but the sin of self righteousness! :-( LoL And by the end of the week,God had again brought me to repentance on that. :-) But when I went up at church there,the last service of the Bible camp,the preacher wasn't interested, in my coming forward and repenting of my self righteousness. That really puzzled me then and I couldn't figure out why that particular preacher acted like that? Many years later,it finally hit me,that at the time,he was probably having trouble,with his own self righteousness. (ha)
Quote from: Tom on October 21, 2014, 01:43:04 AM
Quote from: RonnyTX on October 20, 2014, 09:01:42 PM
Quote from: Tom on October 19, 2014, 12:17:46 AM
Quote from: RonnyTX on October 18, 2014, 01:45:09 AM
Quote from: Tom on October 16, 2014, 09:27:35 PM
One of the problems with the church is folks are taught to not question its authority not because it's the mediator between God and man but because the church doesn't have the answers to your questions. Only Christ is the mediator between God and man, and I think only the inspired written word of God has your answers. You need to read an accurate translation though. My questions led me to leave the Roman Catholic Church in my teens and then the Protestant Church a few years later because both contradict the word of God. Now, when I say "church," I mean both because they both have the same basic doctrine even though Rome has some extra crazy stuff going on. The word "church" is not even scriptural. It is an intentional mistranslation of the Greek "ekklesia," literally "out-called," accurately translated "ecclesia" which is the "body of Christ" called out of the world. The church is part of the world system. You were right to question despite the warning. That's how you eventually found the truth. God bless you.
Ronny to Tom:
Thank you Tom. :-)
And I'm sure,that over 99.9% of all I was taught in my home church,I never questioned. I was just that well brainwashed,to listen to and believe some people,instead of simply listening to and believing God. And as I've said in another post,right after God saved me, I went out at that Baptist Bible camp and told everyone in earshot,about what God had just done for me. :-) Well,I then wanted everyone to have the exact same type of relationship with God,as I then had. The day after this,was the end of the Bible camp and a brother and I went on to another town and to a church,where he knew some people there. While he talked to them,I looked for and found some gospel tracts there,got them and walked out on the street a ways. Stopped in front of a big store and started passing those tracts out to people,who were coming and going from there. I was scared! :-) Guess I was afraid someone might bite my head off or some such! :-) LoL But no one did and everyone was nice to me,smiling,etc. But I never said a word to anyone,for I was too scared to. :-) Well,I was a 16 year old kid,who was growing up in rural,small town NE Texas. The only people I knew that well,were from my small church and very small rural school. I think there were all of 15 kids,in my high school graduating class! And less than 40 members,in my local church! And I think I was seldom if ever in the presence of a stranger,without family or some friends around. Yet there I was 2,000 miles from home and passing out gospel tracts to people,who were complete strangers to me! So It was scared;but yet God,the love of God,compelled me to do such. For God had saved me, the day before and as I've said,I then wanted/desired for all people to then have the same type of relationship with God,as I then had. Then on the plane ride back home,I shared with my seatmate,about what God had just done for me. Back home and in church and I simply set in church and waited for church leadership to tell me what to do then. I thought we would have visitation and passing out of tracts,etc;but we never did. That really surprised me at first;but then I'd been taught there,that church leadership knew best and I was to follow there example. And what ever their teaching and example was, why,that had to be right and best. Or so I was brought up in church,taught to believe.
I still remember the first time I disobeyed church leadership and chose to obey God instead and that,simply because I knew it was the right thing to do. We had a 7 day church revival meeting every year and church people were expected to go out and invite others to that. I was out driving around one year and doing just that. Just going from house to house and inviting people to come to our revival meeting. Then I came upon a house where I saw several black men sitting out front. Now I knew my church leaders wouldn't want me inviting those men to our church. What to do?! Well,I did what I knew God would have me to do,I did what I knew was the right thing to do. I simply stopped, talked to them and invited them to our church revival meeting. I should put in here,my parents taught me right on this matter,before church leadership could teach me different and wrong. For in my growing up,both of my parents taught me,I was not to look up to or down on anyone,because of the material things they had or didn't have or because of the color of their skin. So my parents taught me right on that,before I was old enough to see that some of our church leadership felt and taught differently on the matter.
And I did love my home church pastor;but he was racist. An irony was,that in later years I found out that his "white" family,was actually part black! (ha) Then later on than that,I also learned that my "white" family,was also part black! (ha) And from a very young age, I knew I was part white and part Native American Indian. Then I found out,I also had some black ancestors. So as I put it then,I'm a perfectly good 100% American mutt! :-) LoL
And I agree with you about the RCC and Protestant churchs. They all have some things wrong. And in my time online,I've posted with some people from both groups. And made some mad at me,in each group. :-) And from somethings I've read,I would say you're also right in saying that the word church,is not scriptural. And you're right,that we, who are the presently saved of God in this age,we are the called out ones. For God calls out and saves people,at the time of God's choosing. P.S. I need to read some more about that,about the word church. I have read some on that in the past;but that's been awhile back now.
Tom to Ronny:
Racism is a sad fact of life that is really nonsense if you think about it because, if you go back far enough, we're all related. I would like to have seen the looks on the faces of the racist "Christians" when the black folks showed up for your revival. I attached a screenshot showing different translations of the Greek "ekklesia." I quit reading the King James Version and using the word "church" for "ecclesia" a long time ago. I know some folks like the word "church," but I think the "church" is the world religious organization distinct from the "ecclesia" which is the "body of Christ."
Ronny to Tom:
Thank you for that. :-) And as I've said,I need to do more reading and studying on such.
I have done some previously and can see why the word church is not a good translation. But if and when I use the word church,I simply mean those who have been born of God.
Recently,I was reading in a BMA Baptist monthly paper. My oldest Sis gets that,because she's a BMA church member. In one article,a guy was telling why he was proud to be a Baptist;but before he finished, he made it plain that what he was proud of being,was a BMA Baptist,thank you! :-) I have thought about emailing him and simply asking him, if he believes the BMA,is the one and only true church of God? Because I'm not sure how they believe and teach on that part?
And you're right,that racism is a sad fact of life and right as well,that all us human beings are related! :-) After all,we all come from God and by way of our first earthly parents, Adam and Eve. So as I put it,we're all at least cousins,somewhere along the line! :-) But I also know that there are some white people who say and believe,that only white people are truly human and that black people,at best,are simply a higher form of animal. And such people say that with a straight face,while saying they are Christian and that they get such from the Bible! (ha)
And the black guys I once invited to the local church I was in then,they didn't come. I told my oldest Sis about this,in later years. She said,well,they wouldn't of felt welcomed there and they knew that. When I looked back on it in later years,I realized they would of been welcomed there by some people;but then,not by all. And recently,I mentioned this again to my oldest Sis and I was astounded when she said,she wouldn't go to a black church and that because she would have so little in common with the church members there! Yeah,that really astounded me,because I thought,you would have little in common,with your fellow Christians?! That simply makes no sense. For as Paul the apostle well said; Jew or Gentile,male of female,bond or free,etc,etc,we are all one in Jesus Christ! :-)
Tom to Ronny:
The white "Christians" who say black folks aren't human and only "a higher form of animal" are preaching the lie of evolution that Eugenicists used to rationalize mass sterilizations and that Hitler used to rationalize killing a whole lot of folks. Those so called "Christians" who claim to be Bible believing must have missed this part.
"For the entire law is fulfilled in one word, in this: "You shall love your associate as yourself."" (Galatians 5:14)
Ronny to Tom:
It is sad,that some people are just that ignorant and hateful. :-( And I could never figure out how such people could believe and think that white people were truly human;but not black people? How could they believe that,when they could easily see that white and black people,could have children together? How could they explain that,the one was a human and the other an animal?
Ronny to Tom:
And amen and amen! :-) For indeed I am to love my associate/neighbor as I love myself. And no,I don't always do that as I should;but that does not change the fact,that as a born from above child of God,I am to love all other people,just as Jesus Christ does and did.
I remember a man,who I once dearly hated. And I wished him dead and out one of my nieces life,as soon as possible. This after she was grown and up in her 20's and the man,in a nursing home. He was her grandfather,on her mothers side of the family,the father-in-law,of one of my brothers. But this niece came by one day and told her grandmother and me,that this man had sexually molested her and that beginning at a time,that she was too young,to even know what age she was,when such started? And such continued over the years,till my niece left home and went to a Bible college. And there she said she learned to forgive him. She wrote him and told him so. Then visited him,with an aunt of her. One of his daughters,who as it turned out,he had also molested. But when my niece saw this grandfather of hers,in the nursing home,she said he would never admit that he had done anything wrong or that he had sexually molested her. She told me and her grandmother,my mother,about all of this. And that is when my hatred of the man began. That was when I wished him dead and out of my niece's life and that,as soon as possible. Then sometime after that,I was at work at a cemetery,mowing the grass. Maybe I was thinking about that man then? But before this,I had certainly thought of him at times and wished him dead. But out of the blue that day,God reminded me that Jesus Christ had needed to go to the cross for me,as well. And God led me to pray for the man. And I was still a Calvinist in belief at that time,so what I came to pray for the man, was that he would become right with God,before he died. Now I didn't do that on my own. Indeed,on my own I couldn't have done that. On my own,I would of just gone on hating the man and wishing him quickly dead. But God reminded me,that I had no excuse or reason to look down on or hate anyone. That Jesus Christ had also needed to go to and had gone to the cross for me. So God led me to pray for the man. Something I never could of done,on my own. It is so good,that over time,God changes us. Conforming us more and more,to the image of God's son,Jesus Christ! :-) And no,I am not where I need to be on this,I am not where I one day will be,by God's love,mercy and grace;but I am so glad,that God hasn't left me,where I used to be! :-)
And one thing I still have a problem with,is I don't know if I've yet forgiven a man,who molested me one time,when I was 16 years old? I know I should;but I don't know for sure,if I have or not? He's deceased now;but what made it worse for me,was that he was a member of my family,an in-law. At the time,if just stunned me that he could and did do such and yet he was married to one of my sisters. Lately,I find that I just try not to think about it too much.
Quote from: Lazarus Short on October 21, 2014, 03:36:13 AM
Quote from: RonnyTX on October 18, 2014, 09:51:07 PM
Quote from: Lazarus Short on October 18, 2014, 05:32:58 AM
Quote from: Tom on October 16, 2014, 09:27:35 PM
The church is part of the world system.
Lazarus to Tom:
Yes, it is. Your words above jelled my thinking as I realized that most churches (if not all of them) are run on a business model, and having IRS agents tell them what they can and cannot say from the pulpit in keep their precious tax exemption makes them a de-facto State Church. World system indeed! Doctrine can get awfully worldly too... :sigh:
Ronny to Lazarus:
I wonder if most local churches are denominational churches? And then there are the really huge mega churches,that I've heard about. Somehow,I've got the idea that most of the latter are independent and not denominational type churches. Don't know if that's right of not?
The church I grew up in,was a very small independent,nondenominational type church. And the only ones we claimed kin too,were those local churches just like us in belief and teaching. I was brought up in that Calvinist type church,being taught that we and those exactly like us in belief,constituted the one and only true church of God. When I was around 14 years old,I was shocked when my Mom told me that our pastor was wrong, in his belief about who the church consisted of. She believed the church consisted of all those,who had been born of God and not just those,who were our particular type of
Calvinistic Baptist in belief and teaching. Well,I was shocked,that my Mom disagreed with our pastor on this. I has been taught by him and some other of the church leadership, that they always spoke for God,spoke,taught and believed nothing,but exactly what God said. And I had simply believed that my Mom and all of the adults in our church, believed exactly as out church leadership taught. And I don't remember how I did it back then; but somehow I worked it out in my 14 year old mind,how my Mom and the pastor could both be right! (ha) :-)
Now,at 59 years old and for sometime now,I simply believe that the church/body of Jesus Christ consists of all those persons who have been born of God. And each one of us may or may not also be a member of this or that man made denominational type church. Personally,I think we are scattered throughout those type churches and some of us outside of them as well. But where ever we may be that way,each one of us in a member of the body/church of Jesus Christ and that because we have been put there by God,
when we were born of God.
Lazarus to Ronny:
Ronny, it sounds like you have ears to hear and the ability to see what you are looking at. The churches say much about "getting saved," but stress little that it is both a done deal and a process taking a lifetime. From our merely human viewpoint, many things about God seem to be a paradox (more than just two doctors... :laughing7:).
Ronny to Lazarus:
:-)
I just want to stress,that it's God who has given the ability to hear and understand. And I know that in the future,it is God will continue to teach me. And in the past it was God who chose and allowed me to stay in error,on a number of things. And God did that,for good reason. One being,that when God chose to show me the truth of a matter,then I could help some people,who were still believing wrong on some things,the things that I also once believed wrong about. So God uses such as that,for us to later help other people,to help other people,to come out of bondage.
And I can still well remember,when God first spoke to me. And I will add,that God does that for all of us,at the time of God's choosing and in the manner God chooses. But when God first spoke to me,I was 10 years old. And my Mom had the TV turned on and that to one of Billy Graham's sermons. I'm sure it was during part of the sermon,that he was simply explaining how we are all sinners. And at that moment,God simply opened my ear of understanding and let me know,that I was a sinner. Now I was 10 years old and I had no idea that I was a sinner! (ha) And all I knew from church,was that being a sinner was something bad. And I didn't want to hear more about my being a sinner, :-) so I literally ran from God,thinking in a child like way,that this would keep God from telling me more, about this part of myself. (ha) LoL We lived on some other folks farm then and I quite literally ran out of the house and out across a pasture. I got to the fence line of another place and out a ways,I could see an old cemetery over there. And it was getting dusky dark and I thought I saw someone walking over there and disappearing behind a large dead tree! Now I was a 10yo child and surely had seen a lot of cowboy and Indian shows on TV. :-) So I got it in my child like mind that,that was an Indian over there and he was probably coming to get me! :-( LoL So,I ran all the way back home! LoL But,the point I really want to stress,is that when Billy Graham spoke of people being sinners,I knew at that time and for the first time in my life,that I was a sinner. And I knew,that it was God who was telling me such and not Billy Graham. How did I know that? I can't really say, except to say,that when God does speak to a person in that way,then you know,that it is God who is speaking to you. And even though I far from fully understood it at the time,I still knew that what God told me at the time,was true of myself. It's hard for me to explain,except for me to say,when God speaks to a person,that person knows it's God, who is speaking to them. And in my lifetime,when God has done this for me,I have always known,that God was the one communicating with me and it was God,who was telling me the truth.
Quote from: Tom on October 21, 2014, 03:41:52 PM
Right, "ecclesia" is literally "out-called," and it usually refers to those of us called out of the world to be the "body of Christ." Acts 19:32 just shows how the word was used for a secular purpose.
Ronny to Tom:
Another interesting part of this to me,is not only are we the ecclesia/church,the called out ones;but in the scripture,we are also described as the body of Jesus Christ,the temple of God. And if and when I choose to listen to them on TV,I can hear a number of preachers, preaching about what they believe will be a future,rebuilt Jewish temple. But at this moment,I can't remember hearing these same preachers,talk about the temple that is in the here and now. That is,the temple in this age,that is made up of all,who have been born of God. I wonder,why I so seldom hear any preacher,preach on and talk about that?
Most of these preachers are not spiritually aware. They do not kno the scriptures. They thrive on enflaming end of the world fears apocolyptic myths. They arent building the body, so much as they are building their own names. If they truly loved the word of God they would hav a deeper and more edifying message, but that might cost them their fame.
Quote from: RonnyTX on October 23, 2014, 07:05:28 AM
Quote from: Tom on October 21, 2014, 01:43:04 AM
Quote from: RonnyTX on October 20, 2014, 09:01:42 PM
Quote from: Tom on October 19, 2014, 12:17:46 AM
Quote from: RonnyTX on October 18, 2014, 01:45:09 AM
Quote from: Tom on October 16, 2014, 09:27:35 PM
One of the problems with the church is folks are taught to not question its authority not because it's the mediator between God and man but because the church doesn't have the answers to your questions. Only Christ is the mediator between God and man, and I think only the inspired written word of God has your answers. You need to read an accurate translation though. My questions led me to leave the Roman Catholic Church in my teens and then the Protestant Church a few years later because both contradict the word of God. Now, when I say "church," I mean both because they both have the same basic doctrine even though Rome has some extra crazy stuff going on. The word "church" is not even scriptural. It is an intentional mistranslation of the Greek "ekklesia," literally "out-called," accurately translated "ecclesia" which is the "body of Christ" called out of the world. The church is part of the world system. You were right to question despite the warning. That's how you eventually found the truth. God bless you.
Ronny to Tom:
Thank you Tom. :-)
And I'm sure,that over 99.9% of all I was taught in my home church,I never questioned. I was just that well brainwashed,to listen to and believe some people,instead of simply listening to and believing God. And as I've said in another post,right after God saved me, I went out at that Baptist Bible camp and told everyone in earshot,about what God had just done for me. :-) Well,I then wanted everyone to have the exact same type of relationship with God,as I then had. The day after this,was the end of the Bible camp and a brother and I went on to another town and to a church,where he knew some people there. While he talked to them,I looked for and found some gospel tracts there,got them and walked out on the street a ways. Stopped in front of a big store and started passing those tracts out to people,who were coming and going from there. I was scared! :-) Guess I was afraid someone might bite my head off or some such! :-) LoL But no one did and everyone was nice to me,smiling,etc. But I never said a word to anyone,for I was too scared to. :-) Well,I was a 16 year old kid,who was growing up in rural,small town NE Texas. The only people I knew that well,were from my small church and very small rural school. I think there were all of 15 kids,in my high school graduating class! And less than 40 members,in my local church! And I think I was seldom if ever in the presence of a stranger,without family or some friends around. Yet there I was 2,000 miles from home and passing out gospel tracts to people,who were complete strangers to me! So It was scared;but yet God,the love of God,compelled me to do such. For God had saved me, the day before and as I've said,I then wanted/desired for all people to then have the same type of relationship with God,as I then had. Then on the plane ride back home,I shared with my seatmate,about what God had just done for me. Back home and in church and I simply set in church and waited for church leadership to tell me what to do then. I thought we would have visitation and passing out of tracts,etc;but we never did. That really surprised me at first;but then I'd been taught there,that church leadership knew best and I was to follow there example. And what ever their teaching and example was, why,that had to be right and best. Or so I was brought up in church,taught to believe.
I still remember the first time I disobeyed church leadership and chose to obey God instead and that,simply because I knew it was the right thing to do. We had a 7 day church revival meeting every year and church people were expected to go out and invite others to that. I was out driving around one year and doing just that. Just going from house to house and inviting people to come to our revival meeting. Then I came upon a house where I saw several black men sitting out front. Now I knew my church leaders wouldn't want me inviting those men to our church. What to do?! Well,I did what I knew God would have me to do,I did what I knew was the right thing to do. I simply stopped, talked to them and invited them to our church revival meeting. I should put in here,my parents taught me right on this matter,before church leadership could teach me different and wrong. For in my growing up,both of my parents taught me,I was not to look up to or down on anyone,because of the material things they had or didn't have or because of the color of their skin. So my parents taught me right on that,before I was old enough to see that some of our church leadership felt and taught differently on the matter.
And I did love my home church pastor;but he was racist. An irony was,that in later years I found out that his "white" family,was actually part black! (ha) Then later on than that,I also learned that my "white" family,was also part black! (ha) And from a very young age, I knew I was part white and part Native American Indian. Then I found out,I also had some black ancestors. So as I put it then,I'm a perfectly good 100% American mutt! :-) LoL
And I agree with you about the RCC and Protestant churchs. They all have some things wrong. And in my time online,I've posted with some people from both groups. And made some mad at me,in each group. :-) And from somethings I've read,I would say you're also right in saying that the word church,is not scriptural. And you're right,that we, who are the presently saved of God in this age,we are the called out ones. For God calls out and saves people,at the time of God's choosing. P.S. I need to read some more about that,about the word church. I have read some on that in the past;but that's been awhile back now.
Tom to Ronny:
Racism is a sad fact of life that is really nonsense if you think about it because, if you go back far enough, we're all related. I would like to have seen the looks on the faces of the racist "Christians" when the black folks showed up for your revival. I attached a screenshot showing different translations of the Greek "ekklesia." I quit reading the King James Version and using the word "church" for "ecclesia" a long time ago. I know some folks like the word "church," but I think the "church" is the world religious organization distinct from the "ecclesia" which is the "body of Christ."
Ronny to Tom:
Thank you for that. :-) And as I've said,I need to do more reading and studying on such.
I have done some previously and can see why the word church is not a good translation. But if and when I use the word church,I simply mean those who have been born of God.
Recently,I was reading in a BMA Baptist monthly paper. My oldest Sis gets that,because she's a BMA church member. In one article,a guy was telling why he was proud to be a Baptist;but before he finished, he made it plain that what he was proud of being,was a BMA Baptist,thank you! :-) I have thought about emailing him and simply asking him, if he believes the BMA,is the one and only true church of God? Because I'm not sure how they believe and teach on that part?
And you're right,that racism is a sad fact of life and right as well,that all us human beings are related! :-) After all,we all come from God and by way of our first earthly parents, Adam and Eve. So as I put it,we're all at least cousins,somewhere along the line! :-) But I also know that there are some white people who say and believe,that only white people are truly human and that black people,at best,are simply a higher form of animal. And such people say that with a straight face,while saying they are Christian and that they get such from the Bible! (ha)
And the black guys I once invited to the local church I was in then,they didn't come. I told my oldest Sis about this,in later years. She said,well,they wouldn't of felt welcomed there and they knew that. When I looked back on it in later years,I realized they would of been welcomed there by some people;but then,not by all. And recently,I mentioned this again to my oldest Sis and I was astounded when she said,she wouldn't go to a black church and that because she would have so little in common with the church members there! Yeah,that really astounded me,because I thought,you would have little in common,with your fellow Christians?! That simply makes no sense. For as Paul the apostle well said; Jew or Gentile,male of female,bond or free,etc,etc,we are all one in Jesus Christ! :-)
Tom to Ronny:
The white "Christians" who say black folks aren't human and only "a higher form of animal" are preaching the lie of evolution that Eugenicists used to rationalize mass sterilizations and that Hitler used to rationalize killing a whole lot of folks. Those so called "Christians" who claim to be Bible believing must have missed this part.
"For the entire law is fulfilled in one word, in this: "You shall love your associate as yourself."" (Galatians 5:14)
Ronny to Tom:
It is sad,that some people are just that ignorant and hateful. :-( And I could never figure out how such people could believe and think that white people were truly human;but not black people? How could they believe that,when they could easily see that white and black people,could have children together? How could they explain that,the one was a human and the other an animal?
Ronny to Tom:
And amen and amen! :-) For indeed I am to love my associate/neighbor as I love myself. And no,I don't always do that as I should;but that does not change the fact,that as a born from above child of God,I am to love all other people,just as Jesus Christ does and did.
I remember a man,who I once dearly hated. And I wished him dead and out one of my nieces life,as soon as possible. This after she was grown and up in her 20's and the man,in a nursing home. He was her grandfather,on her mothers side of the family,the father-in-law,of one of my brothers. But this niece came by one day and told her grandmother and me,that this man had sexually molested her and that beginning at a time,that she was too young,to even know what age she was,when such started? And such continued over the years,till my niece left home and went to a Bible college. And there she said she learned to forgive him. She wrote him and told him so. Then visited him,with an aunt of her. One of his daughters,who as it turned out,he had also molested. But when my niece saw this grandfather of hers,in the nursing home,she said he would never admit that he had done anything wrong or that he had sexually molested her. She told me and her grandmother,my mother,about all of this. And that is when my hatred of the man began. That was when I wished him dead and out of my niece's life and that,as soon as possible. Then sometime after that,I was at work at a cemetery,mowing the grass. Maybe I was thinking about that man then? But before this,I had certainly thought of him at times and wished him dead. But out of the blue that day,God reminded me that Jesus Christ had needed to go to the cross for me,as well. And God led me to pray for the man. And I was still a Calvinist in belief at that time,so what I came to pray for the man, was that he would become right with God,before he died. Now I didn't do that on my own. Indeed,on my own I couldn't have done that. On my own,I would of just gone on hating the man and wishing him quickly dead. But God reminded me,that I had no excuse or reason to look down on or hate anyone. That Jesus Christ had also needed to go to and had gone to the cross for me. So God led me to pray for the man. Something I never could of done,on my own. It is so good,that over time,God changes us. Conforming us more and more,to the image of God's son,Jesus Christ! :-) And no,I am not where I need to be on this,I am not where I one day will be,by God's love,mercy and grace;but I am so glad,that God hasn't left me,where I used to be! :-)
And one thing I still have a problem with,is I don't know if I've yet forgiven a man,who molested me one time,when I was 16 years old? I know I should;but I don't know for sure,if I have or not? He's deceased now;but what made it worse for me,was that he was a member of my family,an in-law. At the time,if just stunned me that he could and did do such and yet he was married to one of my sisters. Lately,I find that I just try not to think about it too much.
We all have people that have sinned against us and people we've sinned against in our lives because God gives us all the experience of evil to humble us. I think we should forgive those who have sinned against us because carrying a grudge or hatred towards anybody will torment you. We have to realize that we are all caused to sin by Satan, but we are justified because of Christ. None of us are worthy because we all have sinned, but God is conciliated with all mankind through the death of his only-begotten son, Jesus Christ, who died for the sins of the whole world. God is now at peace with mankind, and mankind just needs to be at peace with God. At the consummation of the eons, all on earth and in the heavens will be reconciled to God, and there will be no more evil or death. In the meantime, we are ambassadors for Christ.
"So that, if anyone is in Christ, there is a new creation: the primitive passed by. Lo! there has come new! Yet all is of God, Who conciliates us to Himself through Christ, and is giving us the dispensation of the conciliation, how that God was in Christ, conciliating the world to Himself, not reckoning their offenses to them, and placing in us the word of the conciliation. For Christ, then, are we ambassadors, as of God entreating through us. We are beseeching for Christ's sake, "Be conciliated to God!"" (2 Corinthians 5:17-20)
Quote from: RonnyTX on October 23, 2014, 08:01:02 AM
Quote from: Tom on October 21, 2014, 03:41:52 PM
Right, "ecclesia" is literally "out-called," and it usually refers to those of us called out of the world to be the "body of Christ." Acts 19:32 just shows how the word was used for a secular purpose.
Ronny to Tom:
Another interesting part of this to me,is not only are we the ecclesia/church,the called out ones;but in the scripture,we are also described as the body of Jesus Christ,the temple of God. And if and when I choose to listen to them on TV,I can hear a number of preachers, preaching about what they believe will be a future,rebuilt Jewish temple. But at this moment,I can't remember hearing these same preachers,talk about the temple that is in the here and now. That is,the temple in this age,that is made up of all,who have been born of God. I wonder,why I so seldom hear any preacher,preach on and talk about that?
I don't watch TV at all because it's boring to me. So I don't watch TV preachers. I prefer to read scripture and communicate on this forum. I think the ecclesia, the body of Christ, is distinct from the church those preachers are leading, and that's why you don't hear the same thing you'll get from an accurate translation of scripture.
QuoteRosered to Ronny
wow you have been though many things Bro Ronnie
so glad you are on the mend
Ronny to Rosered:
Thank you. :-) And I have one more doctors appointment tomorrow. Most everything looking real good now. :-) And I hope she will tell me that I can stop taking/using the two medicines she prescribed me. Maybe,seeing how far things have healed up now? But one thing I'm using is a steriod ointment and with that,I'm supposed to only get out in the sunlight,for a limited amount of time. I can't like that, 'cause as I've gotten to feeling better,I want to be outside,a lot more! :-) Well,it's cooled off here now and since fall has to NE Texas,I would like to start a fall garden. :-) Would have to take it slow,until my strength builds up;but still,I really would like to get on with,just making a start on such! :-)
Rosered to Ronny:
now ,
I too was brainwashed into thinking hell and the fiery pits of Gehenna was awaiting everyone 90 % of the population
I trusted , that is what you are supposed to do right ?
and kept hoping God would save me if I tried real hard
wore out doing all that they asked and it seemed so fake to me
I had questions real ones and they never had a good answer to them , it did not settle with peace in my soul right .
Ronny to Rosered:
Yes,that is so much the way,so many of us are taught in church. Falsely taught to believe,that to believe and trust church leaders,is the same as us believing and trusting God.
And as I've said,I'm too hard of hearing now,even with a hearing aid,to get any good out of going to a local church;but I am so glad there are church programs on TV,that are captioned for the dear/hard of hearing! :-) I watch 4 of those,on a fairly regular basis. And starting 19 years ago,God especially started using one of those preacheres,to help me. This one preacher,he taught a lot on listening to God,talking to God and asking God. And he made it very plain,that there is only one God and he or no other preacher is that! :-) And he said,the worst he got upset in church,was when some people treated him,as if he were God! Now I never agreed with this preacher on everything and I still don't;but God used him to help me. And what I much appreciate in him,is how he expressed love and caring for all other people and that he has humility. I appreciate that in any preacher I see such in,no matter that I don't agree with them just alike,on everything. I don't have to,for God to use such people,to bless me.
Rosered to Ronny:
One day sitting on the church pew the preacher was using this man as an example , he saw mowing his lawn and judged that poor fellow as to not being in church
and something SPOKE within asked me do you believe that ?
I said NO , GOD can save anyone any where any time HE IS GOD !
and than asked why are you here ?
Ronny to Rosered:
Amen! :-)
Ronny to Rosered:
I left and never looked back
and my sister has been a huge help for the family
so many things happened and your right in the evil of chaos Gods good was always found !!
Ronny to Rosered:
Amen! :-) And though we may not always see it and understand it at the time,we can still know that it's there and that God will bring good,out of all evil! :-)
Rosered to Rommy:
Love saves us all , not fear and despising :flowerred:
Ronny to Rosered:
Amen and amen! :-) And God is love! :-) And the only ones that Jesus Christ gave what for to,at times in the Bible,is the self righteous religious folk,who thought they were better than everyone else! (ha) LoL And God did the same for me. First,when God was saving me and showed me my sinful selfrighteousness and let me compare myself and that,to God and God's holiness. And as I say,when God did that for me,I didn't come off looking good at all! LoL But that was the goodness of God,that led me to repentance towards God. :-) Then in the year after God saved me,I stumbled back into that self righteousness some. Not as bad as I had been;but I still went back into that some. And he next year,this older brother and I,we were back at that same Bible camp,where God had saved me,the year before. Well,wouldn't you know,for the entire solid week,the young peoples teacher,he taught on nothing;but the sin of self righteousness! :-( LoL And by the end of the week,God had again brought me to repentance on that. :-) But when I went up at church there,the last service of the Bible camp,the preacher wasn't interested, in my coming forward and repenting of my self righteousness. That really puzzled me then and I couldn't figure out why that particular preacher acted like that? Many years later,it finally hit me,that at the time,he was probably having trouble,with his own self righteousness. (ha)
Lol I do believe your better Bro Ronnie!!
That is good , we are at the end of fall harvest and lots of canning is over , we cannot do fall gardening in Southern Indiana , we had our first dandy frost last night ! so the living things are dying off again and every thing is getting ready for the winter dormant sleep
I hope you can grow a few things this fall since you missed out on the summer lot !!
Oh confessions of the babes of Christianity I was so foolish to think , I am ready and clean Jesus if you take me now I can go , but if you wait ,I will mess up for sure and get dirty again , Just like a child getting ready for the big party in your clean clothes and there is that mud hole to play in while you wait on the others to get ready lol while Papa and mama cleans us up ha ! ha !
Oh the minds of children
trying to obey those laws to the jots and tittles ,,,,,, its all foolish thinking and childs play , and are really innocent in so many ways
So I judge no one , where ever we are found the Lord is able to save us in that place ......
I am under the impression that we all are like the Jews in the beginning given the oracles of God but have no idea how to apply them righteously
because we only have our own righteousness and its filthy rags and the prison trap of Babylon , our change of garments comes when we come to Christ and put on Christ and that to me is the true turning point complete surrender of will and desire to please God in ways we have no idea how to
when the mind of Christ is given we can grow in truth and grace as little ones pleasing in the sight of God who sees everything right in the first place
and makes everything right by giving us His Spirit and truth and Love , a deep well to draw from , proving our lack from the beginning
as we also come out of the world /Egypt and experience the wilderness and end up trapped in Babylon only to be delivered by Jesus Christ
the scribes/ readers of the Word and oracles of God Pharisees/ separatist and hypocrites/ lover of themselves and their own kind but had no love of God in them for mankind in general , Jesus always spoke to as self rightness were under the same trap of Babylon and of abusing the law for their own benefit and need to gain the things of God while they had the world in their power
you can not serve two masters man and its own self and God it just does not work like that you will hate one and the love the other and the very deeds prove your loyalty to one or the other
I love Galatians 3 for this reason for me and what I believe ,we do die a thousand deaths before coming to Christ every experience from the womb to leaving the world to the wilderness to going into many teachers under the law to Babylon has been a death of sorts and leave this all behind us to Gain more and more of Jesus Christ
many tutors under the law to come to Christ , this is how we as little children can enter Gods Kingdom :HeartThrob: from Jesus Christ and His cross are all the gifts and inheritance of truly becoming sons of God though Him , no other way but by Him by HIS OWN Spirit and truth can we really worship God as it pleases Him :HeartThrob: ...
ps I love the expanded Bible its very helpful to me for learning and am a simple gal , love the simplicity in Jesus Christ and try to avoid the confusion that leads us to doubts and proving our lack of faith in Christ to ourselves as other also see the struggles also . We gain confidence in what God has done for us , not what we have done for God , true humility in my opinion /judgement is depending on our Father for everything and every need .
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians+3+&version=EXB (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians+3+&version=EXB)
God bless you and yours, my brother in Christ :flowerred:
Quote from: RonnyTX on October 15, 2014, 09:13:59 AM
Hi there! :-) Ronny here from rural,small town NE Texas.
Oh my Goodness! what a blessing to read, your post was.. all of it! And I believe you summed up the whole believer/church situation as it exists in the lives and faith of many without them realizing it..
"If anyone lacks wisdom, let them ask God.." :cloud9: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Fellow former webtv user here! :hiya: God bless! and welcome to Tentmaker forums! I hope we will hear a lot from you!
Quote from: Tom on October 23, 2014, 03:55:29 PM
Quote from: RonnyTX on October 23, 2014, 08:01:02 AM
Quote from: Tom on October 21, 2014, 03:41:52 PM
Right, "ecclesia" is literally "out-called," and it usually refers to those of us called out of the world to be the "body of Christ." Acts 19:32 just shows how the word was used for a secular purpose.
Ronny to Tom:
Another interesting part of this to me,is not only are we the ecclesia/church,the called out ones;but in the scripture,we are also described as the body of Jesus Christ,the temple of God. And if and when I choose to listen to them on TV,I can hear a number of preachers, preaching about what they believe will be a future,rebuilt Jewish temple. But at this moment,I can't remember hearing these same preachers,talk about the temple that is in the here and now. That is,the temple in this age,that is made up of all,who have been born of God. I wonder,why I so seldom hear any preacher,preach on and talk about that?
Tom to Ronny:
I don't watch TV at all because it's boring to me. So I don't watch TV preachers. I prefer to read scripture and communicate on this forum. I think the ecclesia, the body of Christ, is distinct from the church those preachers are leading, and that's why you don't hear the same thing you'll get from an accurate translation of scripture.
Tom to Ronny:
I think you're right that the ecclesia/church/body of Jesus Christ is a different thing from the denominational type preachers and churches I was speaking about. Though of course, there are people in those who are also members of the ecclesia/church/body/temple of Jesus Christ. Put there by God and not by themself or by any denominational type preacher.
And in the past,all that I had was the scripture as translated by various people and some deniminational type preachers on TV. And some of those God has used to bless me, even though I knew they were wrong on somethings. Well,even when both they and I didn't rightly understand somethings,God still used one denominational type TV preacher,to free me from "worship" of preachers and denominational teaching.
The one thing that really bothers me about any denominational preacher,that I might see and sometimes watch on TV,is that all of them believe and teach that a lost person must in some way save themself. That,by their supposed "free will." Too,though some will seldom if ever mention such,in the background of their teaching,there is always the denominational type teaching if threatening the lost person with a Jesus Christ created hell of eternal punishment. I know that's wrong now and I hate to see that false threat used in any way. But,I think I need to keep in mind,that at least some who believe this and are wrong about it,at least some of them sincerely believe what they are saying. And at least that's better than the ones who simply teach/preach such to try and control some people and get money out of them.
Quote from: RonnyTX on October 24, 2014, 05:08:56 PM
Quote from: Tom on October 23, 2014, 03:55:29 PM
Quote from: RonnyTX on October 23, 2014, 08:01:02 AM
Quote from: Tom on October 21, 2014, 03:41:52 PM
Right, "ecclesia" is literally "out-called," and it usually refers to those of us called out of the world to be the "body of Christ." Acts 19:32 just shows how the word was used for a secular purpose.
Ronny to Tom:
Another interesting part of this to me,is not only are we the ecclesia/church,the called out ones;but in the scripture,we are also described as the body of Jesus Christ,the temple of God. And if and when I choose to listen to them on TV,I can hear a number of preachers, preaching about what they believe will be a future,rebuilt Jewish temple. But at this moment,I can't remember hearing these same preachers,talk about the temple that is in the here and now. That is,the temple in this age,that is made up of all,who have been born of God. I wonder,why I so seldom hear any preacher,preach on and talk about that?
Tom to Ronny:
I don't watch TV at all because it's boring to me. So I don't watch TV preachers. I prefer to read scripture and communicate on this forum. I think the ecclesia, the body of Christ, is distinct from the church those preachers are leading, and that's why you don't hear the same thing you'll get from an accurate translation of scripture.
Tom to Ronny:
I think you're right that the ecclesia/church/body of Jesus Christ is a different thing from the denominational type preachers and churches I was speaking about. Though of course, there are people in those who are also members of the ecclesia/church/body/temple of Jesus Christ. Put there by God and not by themself or by any denominational type preacher.
And in the past,all that I had was the scripture as translated by various people and some deniminational type preachers on TV. And some of those God has used to bless me, even though I knew they were wrong on somethings. Well,even when both they and I didn't rightly understand somethings,God still used one denominational type TV preacher,to free me from "worship" of preachers and denominational teaching.
The one thing that really bothers me about any denominational preacher,that I might see and sometimes watch on TV,is that all of them believe and teach that a lost person must in some way save themself. That,by their supposed "free will." Too,though some will seldom if ever mention such,in the background of their teaching,there is always the denominational type teaching if threatening the lost person with a Jesus Christ created hell of eternal punishment. I know that's wrong now and I hate to see that false threat used in any way. But,I think I need to keep in mind,that at least some who believe this and are wrong about it,at least some of them sincerely believe what they are saying. And at least that's better than the ones who simply teach/preach such to try and control some people and get money out of them.
That's the problem with church doctrine. You have to save yourself from eternal punishment in an pagan hell of torture in fire forever. Scripture says we're chosen before the disruption of the world, and it's in grace through faith that we're saved, not of works.
"He chooses us in Him before the disruption of the world" (Ephesians 1:4)
"For in grace, through faith, are you saved, and this is not out of you; it is God's approach present, not of works, lest anyone should be boasting." (Ephesians 2:8,9)
Quote from: rosered on October 23, 2014, 05:20:00 PM
QuoteRosered to Ronny
wow you have been though many things Bro Ronnie
so glad you are on the mend
Ronny to Rosered:
Thank you. :-) And I have one more doctors appointment tomorrow. Most everything looking real good now. :-) And I hope she will tell me that I can stop taking/using the two medicines she prescribed me. Maybe,seeing how far things have healed up now? But one thing I'm using is a steriod ointment and with that,I'm supposed to only get out in the sunlight,for a limited amount of time. I can't like that, 'cause as I've gotten to feeling better,I want to be outside,a lot more! :-) Well,it's cooled off here now and since fall has to NE Texas,I would like to start a fall garden. :-) Would have to take it slow,until my strength builds up;but still,I really would like to get on with,just making a start on such! :-)
Rosered to Ronny:
now ,
I too was brainwashed into thinking hell and the fiery pits of Gehenna was awaiting everyone 90 % of the population
I trusted , that is what you are supposed to do right ?
and kept hoping God would save me if I tried real hard
wore out doing all that they asked and it seemed so fake to me
I had questions real ones and they never had a good answer to them , it did not settle with peace in my soul right .
Ronny to Rosered:
Yes,that is so much the way,so many of us are taught in church. Falsely taught to believe,that to believe and trust church leaders,is the same as us believing and trusting God.
And as I've said,I'm too hard of hearing now,even with a hearing aid,to get any good out of going to a local church;but I am so glad there are church programs on TV,that are captioned for the dear/hard of hearing! :-) I watch 4 of those,on a fairly regular basis. And starting 19 years ago,God especially started using one of those preacheres,to help me. This one preacher,he taught a lot on listening to God,talking to God and asking God. And he made it very plain,that there is only one God and he or no other preacher is that! :-) And he said,the worst he got upset in church,was when some people treated him,as if he were God! Now I never agreed with this preacher on everything and I still don't;but God used him to help me. And what I much appreciate in him,is how he expressed love and caring for all other people and that he has humility. I appreciate that in any preacher I see such in,no matter that I don't agree with them just alike,on everything. I don't have to,for God to use such people,to bless me.
Rosered to Ronny:
One day sitting on the church pew the preacher was using this man as an example , he saw mowing his lawn and judged that poor fellow as to not being in church
and something SPOKE within asked me do you believe that ?
I said NO , GOD can save anyone any where any time HE IS GOD !
and than asked why are you here ?
Ronny to Rosered:
Amen! :-)
Ronny to Rosered:
I left and never looked back
and my sister has been a huge help for the family
so many things happened and your right in the evil of chaos Gods good was always found !!
Ronny to Rosered:
Amen! :-) And though we may not always see it and understand it at the time,we can still know that it's there and that God will bring good,out of all evil! :-)
Rosered to Rommy:
Love saves us all , not fear and despising :flowerred:
Ronny to Rosered:
Amen and amen! :-) And God is love! :-) And the only ones that Jesus Christ gave what for to,at times in the Bible,is the self righteous religious folk,who thought they were better than everyone else! (ha) LoL And God did the same for me. First,when God was saving me and showed me my sinful selfrighteousness and let me compare myself and that,to God and God's holiness. And as I say,when God did that for me,I didn't come off looking good at all! LoL But that was the goodness of God,that led me to repentance towards God. :-) Then in the year after God saved me,I stumbled back into that self righteousness some. Not as bad as I had been;but I still went back into that some. And he next year,this older brother and I,we were back at that same Bible camp,where God had saved me,the year before. Well,wouldn't you know,for the entire solid week,the young peoples teacher,he taught on nothing;but the sin of self righteousness! :-( LoL And by the end of the week,God had again brought me to repentance on that. :-) But when I went up at church there,the last service of the Bible camp,the preacher wasn't interested, in my coming forward and repenting of my self righteousness. That really puzzled me then and I couldn't figure out why that particular preacher acted like that? Many years later,it finally hit me,that at the time,he was probably having trouble,with his own self righteousness. (ha)
Rosered to Ronny:
Lol I do believe your better Bro Ronnie!!
Ronny to Rosered:
I am at that. :-) Though I really shouldn't of gone to town today,when I woke up from a nap and found oldest Sis had gone there. Still need to build up my strength. Went to two garage sales;but didn't find anything I wanted to buy. Yesterday though,I found 3 nice little toys for 75 cents! :-) And plan on giving a little stuffed animal with a rattler,to my 6 month old great,great niece. Just got to see her for the first time;about 3 months ago. :-)
Rosered to Ronny:
That is good , we are at the end of fall harvest and lots of canning is over , we cannot do fall gardening in Southern Indiana , we had our first dandy frost last night ! so the living things are dying off again and every thing is getting ready for the winter dormant sleep
I hope you can grow a few things this fall since you missed out on the summer lot !!
Ronny to Rosered: In late spring,Sis and I did get to plant some purplehull peas and tomatoes and we really enjoyed those. :-) This fall,I can plant several types of greens, including turnips and some onion bulbs or plants. Here in NE Texas,it gets cold to us; :-) and it may even snow a time or two;but it seldom if ever,gets cold enough to hurt greens and onions! :-)
Rosered to Ronny:
Oh confessions of the babes of Christianity I was so foolish to think , I am ready and clean Jesus if you take me now I can go , but if you wait ,I will mess up for sure and get dirty again , Just like a child getting ready for the big party in your clean clothes and there is that mud hole to play in while you wait on the others to get ready lol while Papa and mama cleans us up ha ! ha !
Oh the minds of children
trying to obey those laws to the jots and tittles ,,,,,, its all foolish thinking and childs play , and are really innocent in so many ways
So I judge no one , where ever we are found the Lord is able to save us in that place ......
Ronny to Rosered:
Amen! :-)
Rosered to Ronny:
I am under the impression that we all are like the Jews in the beginning given the oracles of God but have no idea how to apply them righteously
because we only have our own righteousness and its filthy rags and the prison trap of Babylon , our change of garments comes when we come to Christ and put on Christ and that to me is the true turning point complete surrender of will and desire to please God in ways we have no idea how to
when the mind of Christ is given we can grow in truth and grace as little ones pleasing in the sight of God who sees everything right in the first place
and makes everything right by giving us His Spirit and truth and Love , a deep well to draw from , proving our lack from the beginning
as we also come out of the world /Egypt and experience the wilderness and end up trapped in Babylon only to be delivered by Jesus Christ
Ronny to Rosered:
Amen! :-)
Rosered to Ronny:
the scribes/ readers of the Word and oracles of God Pharisees/ separatist and hypocrites/ lover of themselves and their own kind but had no love of God in them for mankind in general , Jesus always spoke to as self rightness were under the same trap of Babylon and of abusing the law for their own benefit and need to gain the things of God while they had the world in their power
you can not serve two masters man and its own self and God it just does not work like that you will hate one and the love the other and the very deeds prove your loyalty to one or the other
Ronny to Rosered:
This reminds me of when Jesus Christ was telling some Pharisees,about how careful they were to tithe even the smallest of things they had;but he told them what they needed and yet left off,were things like love and mercy.
Rosered to Ronny:
I love Galatians 3 for this reason for me and what I believe ,we do die a thousand deaths before coming to Christ every experience from the womb to leaving the world to the wilderness to going into many teachers under the law to Babylon has been a death of sorts and leave this all behind us to Gain more and more of Jesus Christ
many tutors under the law to come to Christ , this is how we as little children can enter Gods Kingdom :HeartThrob: from Jesus Christ and His cross are all the gifts and inheritance of truly becoming sons of God though Him , no other way but by Him by HIS OWN Spirit and truth can we really worship God as it pleases Him :HeartThrob: ...
Ronny to Rosered:
Amen and amen. :-)
Rosered to Ronny:
ps I love the expanded Bible its very helpful to me for learning and am a simple gal , love the simplicity in Jesus Christ and try to avoid the confusion that leads us to doubts and proving our lack of faith in Christ to ourselves as other also see the struggles also . We gain confidence in what God has done for us , not what we have done for God , true humility in my opinion /judgement is depending on our Father for everything and every need .
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians+3+&version=EXB (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians+3+&version=EXB)
Ronny to Rosered:
Thank you for that link. :-) And I remember a good while back,I was on another group with an older man. I felt sorry for him,for he's been brought up in a denmination where he was taught he was right with God,if he kept the law. And he believed he did. And I would ask him to read and or I would reply back to him with some of the scripture from Galations chapter. One of my favorite chapters in the Bible! :-)
Rosered to Ronny:
God bless you and yours, my brother in Christ :flowerred:
Ronny to Rosered:
Thank you :-) and the same to you and yours. :-)
Quote from: marie glen on October 23, 2014, 06:44:12 PM
Quote from: RonnyTX on October 15, 2014, 09:13:59 AM
Hi there! :-) Ronny here from rural,small town NE Texas.
Oh my Goodness! what a blessing to read, your post was.. all of it! And I believe you summed up the whole believer/church situation as it exists in the lives and faith of many without them realizing it..
"If anyone lacks wisdom, let them ask God.." :cloud9: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Ronny to Marie:
Thank you. :-) And two scriptures I like to mention is this one that says if you lack wisdom;ask God,etc,in James chapter one. My,what a revelation that was to me,when God opened my eyes so that I could see and understand that one! :-) And the other scripture is in Acts chapter 17,where it talks of Paul and Silas going and preaching at Berea. And it says the Bereans searched the scripture daily,to see if what Paul and Silas told them,was true or not! My,when God let me see that,it so shocked me! Shocked me that anyone would not believe Paul just right off and completely. Well,like I had been taught in church,to believe what some people told me and that without question. I thought at first,who were these people that they should not believe Paul and Silas,right off of the bat?! (ha) :-) Then it hit me,I also had the right to question anyones word,to read the scriptures for myself,asking God to guide and show me and show me if what these other people said,was true or not? I'm just so thankful,that God used scripture in James chapter one and Acts chapter 17,to free me in the way God did. :-)
Marie to Ronny:
Fellow former webtv user here! :hiya: God bless! and welcome to Tentmaker forums! I hope we will hear a lot from you!
Ronny to Marie:
Thank you :-) and with the way I like to talk/post,you probably will! :-) And I've posted a good bit here,over the last few days; :-) but not even as much as I probably would have, if I were already 100% over this recent illness! :-) LoL
And it's good too,to see another former WebTV user! :-) Ah,I used to stay online with mine,too much at times! :-) And those little boxes,were so easy to use! :-) Sure would of been a lot nicer though,if Microsoft had simply kept them up to date!
Quote from: Tom on October 24, 2014, 05:48:07 PM
Quote from: RonnyTX on October 24, 2014, 05:08:56 PM
Quote from: Tom on October 23, 2014, 03:55:29 PM
Quote from: RonnyTX on October 23, 2014, 08:01:02 AM
Quote from: Tom on October 21, 2014, 03:41:52 PM
Right, "ecclesia" is literally "out-called," and it usually refers to those of us called out of the world to be the "body of Christ." Acts 19:32 just shows how the word was used for a secular purpose.
Ronny to Tom:
Another interesting part of this to me,is not only are we the ecclesia/church,the called out ones;but in the scripture,we are also described as the body of Jesus Christ,the temple of God. And if and when I choose to listen to them on TV,I can hear a number of preachers, preaching about what they believe will be a future,rebuilt Jewish temple. But at this moment,I can't remember hearing these same preachers,talk about the temple that is in the here and now. That is,the temple in this age,that is made up of all,who have been born of God. I wonder,why I so seldom hear any preacher,preach on and talk about that?
Tom to Ronny:
I don't watch TV at all because it's boring to me. So I don't watch TV preachers. I prefer to read scripture and communicate on this forum. I think the ecclesia, the body of Christ, is distinct from the church those preachers are leading, and that's why you don't hear the same thing you'll get from an accurate translation of scripture.
Tom to Ronny:
I think you're right that the ecclesia/church/body of Jesus Christ is a different thing from the denominational type preachers and churches I was speaking about. Though of course, there are people in those who are also members of the ecclesia/church/body/temple of Jesus Christ. Put there by God and not by themself or by any denominational type preacher.
And in the past,all that I had was the scripture as translated by various people and some deniminational type preachers on TV. And some of those God has used to bless me, even though I knew they were wrong on somethings. Well,even when both they and I didn't rightly understand somethings,God still used one denominational type TV preacher,to free me from "worship" of preachers and denominational teaching.
The one thing that really bothers me about any denominational preacher,that I might see and sometimes watch on TV,is that all of them believe and teach that a lost person must in some way save themself. That,by their supposed "free will." Too,though some will seldom if ever mention such,in the background of their teaching,there is always the denominational type teaching if threatening the lost person with a Jesus Christ created hell of eternal punishment. I know that's wrong now and I hate to see that false threat used in any way. But,I think I need to keep in mind,that at least some who believe this and are wrong about it,at least some of them sincerely believe what they are saying. And at least that's better than the ones who simply teach/preach such to try and control some people and get money out of them.
Tom to Ronny:
That's the problem with church doctrine. You have to save yourself from eternal punishment in an pagan hell of torture in fire forever. Scripture says we're chosen before the disruption of the world, and it's in grace through faith that we're saved, not of works.
"He chooses us in Him before the disruption of the world" (Ephesians 1:4)
"For in grace, through faith, are you saved, and this is not out of you; it is God's approach present, not of works, lest anyone should be boasting." (Ephesians 2:8,9)
Ronny to Tom:
Amen! :-) And I knew when God saved me,that it was God who did that for me and not me saving myself. For it was God who let me know I was lost,God who led me to repentance toward God and God who took me on to faith in Jesus Christ. :-) So,I knew Who was there when I was 16 years old,I knew Who saved me. :-) Yet as I've said,I was brought up in a Calvinistic type teaching/preaching church and taught by some people; but not by God,that what God did for me,God only did for a few people,out of the whole human race. That latter part isn't true;but I believed it for many years and only came to see how false it was,when God showed me better,around 4 and a half year ago. :-) When God showed me,that in Adam all died and that in Jesus Christ all would be made alive.
:-) And that there was no such thing as a Jesus Christ created hell of eternal punishment. And when I saw the last part,I though how could anyone believe otherwise,for God is love? And it simply makes no sense,that God who is love,would create a hell of eternal punishment,not even for just one person! But I had believed God had created that hell and that simply because I was brought up in church,taught to believe such. Taught that by some people;but not by God.
Quote from: RonnyTX on October 24, 2014, 11:42:57 PM
Quote from: Tom on October 24, 2014, 05:48:07 PM
Quote from: RonnyTX on October 24, 2014, 05:08:56 PM
Quote from: Tom on October 23, 2014, 03:55:29 PM
Quote from: RonnyTX on October 23, 2014, 08:01:02 AM
Quote from: Tom on October 21, 2014, 03:41:52 PM
Right, "ecclesia" is literally "out-called," and it usually refers to those of us called out of the world to be the "body of Christ." Acts 19:32 just shows how the word was used for a secular purpose.
Ronny to Tom:
Another interesting part of this to me,is not only are we the ecclesia/church,the called out ones;but in the scripture,we are also described as the body of Jesus Christ,the temple of God. And if and when I choose to listen to them on TV,I can hear a number of preachers, preaching about what they believe will be a future,rebuilt Jewish temple. But at this moment,I can't remember hearing these same preachers,talk about the temple that is in the here and now. That is,the temple in this age,that is made up of all,who have been born of God. I wonder,why I so seldom hear any preacher,preach on and talk about that?
Tom to Ronny:
I don't watch TV at all because it's boring to me. So I don't watch TV preachers. I prefer to read scripture and communicate on this forum. I think the ecclesia, the body of Christ, is distinct from the church those preachers are leading, and that's why you don't hear the same thing you'll get from an accurate translation of scripture.
Tom to Ronny:
I think you're right that the ecclesia/church/body of Jesus Christ is a different thing from the denominational type preachers and churches I was speaking about. Though of course, there are people in those who are also members of the ecclesia/church/body/temple of Jesus Christ. Put there by God and not by themself or by any denominational type preacher.
And in the past,all that I had was the scripture as translated by various people and some deniminational type preachers on TV. And some of those God has used to bless me, even though I knew they were wrong on somethings. Well,even when both they and I didn't rightly understand somethings,God still used one denominational type TV preacher,to free me from "worship" of preachers and denominational teaching.
The one thing that really bothers me about any denominational preacher,that I might see and sometimes watch on TV,is that all of them believe and teach that a lost person must in some way save themself. That,by their supposed "free will." Too,though some will seldom if ever mention such,in the background of their teaching,there is always the denominational type teaching if threatening the lost person with a Jesus Christ created hell of eternal punishment. I know that's wrong now and I hate to see that false threat used in any way. But,I think I need to keep in mind,that at least some who believe this and are wrong about it,at least some of them sincerely believe what they are saying. And at least that's better than the ones who simply teach/preach such to try and control some people and get money out of them.
Tom to Ronny:
That's the problem with church doctrine. You have to save yourself from eternal punishment in an pagan hell of torture in fire forever. Scripture says we're chosen before the disruption of the world, and it's in grace through faith that we're saved, not of works.
"He chooses us in Him before the disruption of the world" (Ephesians 1:4)
"For in grace, through faith, are you saved, and this is not out of you; it is God's approach present, not of works, lest anyone should be boasting." (Ephesians 2:8,9)
Ronny to Tom:
Amen! :-) And I knew when God saved me,that it was God who did that for me and not me saving myself. For it was God who let me know I was lost,God who led me to repentance toward God and God who took me on to faith in Jesus Christ. :-) So,I knew Who was there when I was 16 years old,I knew Who saved me. :-) Yet as I've said,I was brought up in a Calvinistic type teaching/preaching church and taught by some people; but not by God,that what God did for me,God only did for a few people,out of the whole human race. That latter part isn't true;but I believed it for many years and only came to see how false it was,when God showed me better,around 4 and a half year ago. :-) When God showed me,that in Adam all died and that in Jesus Christ all would be made alive.
:-) And that there was no such thing as a Jesus Christ created hell of eternal punishment. And when I saw the last part,I though how could anyone believe otherwise,for God is love? And it simply makes no sense,that God who is love,would create a hell of eternal punishment,not even for just one person! But I had believed God had created that hell and that simply because I was brought up in church,taught to believe such. Taught that by some people;but not by God.
Amen. I was taught the same kind of stuff in the Catholic Church, but we're free from that nonsense now that we know the truth.
Quote from: Tom on October 24, 2014, 11:59:55 PM
Quote from: RonnyTX on October 24, 2014, 11:42:57 PM
Quote from: Tom on October 24, 2014, 05:48:07 PM
Quote from: RonnyTX on October 24, 2014, 05:08:56 PM
Quote from: Tom on October 23, 2014, 03:55:29 PM
Quote from: RonnyTX on October 23, 2014, 08:01:02 AM
Quote from: Tom on October 21, 2014, 03:41:52 PM
Right, "ecclesia" is literally "out-called," and it usually refers to those of us called out of the world to be the "body of Christ." Acts 19:32 just shows how the word was used for a secular purpose.
Ronny to Tom:
Another interesting part of this to me,is not only are we the ecclesia/church,the called out ones;but in the scripture,we are also described as the body of Jesus Christ,the temple of God. And if and when I choose to listen to them on TV,I can hear a number of preachers, preaching about what they believe will be a future,rebuilt Jewish temple. But at this moment,I can't remember hearing these same preachers,talk about the temple that is in the here and now. That is,the temple in this age,that is made up of all,who have been born of God. I wonder,why I so seldom hear any preacher,preach on and talk about that?
Tom to Ronny:
I don't watch TV at all because it's boring to me. So I don't watch TV preachers. I prefer to read scripture and communicate on this forum. I think the ecclesia, the body of Christ, is distinct from the church those preachers are leading, and that's why you don't hear the same thing you'll get from an accurate translation of scripture.
Tom to Ronny:
I think you're right that the ecclesia/church/body of Jesus Christ is a different thing from the denominational type preachers and churches I was speaking about. Though of course, there are people in those who are also members of the ecclesia/church/body/temple of Jesus Christ. Put there by God and not by themself or by any denominational type preacher.
And in the past,all that I had was the scripture as translated by various people and some deniminational type preachers on TV. And some of those God has used to bless me, even though I knew they were wrong on somethings. Well,even when both they and I didn't rightly understand somethings,God still used one denominational type TV preacher,to free me from "worship" of preachers and denominational teaching.
The one thing that really bothers me about any denominational preacher,that I might see and sometimes watch on TV,is that all of them believe and teach that a lost person must in some way save themself. That,by their supposed "free will." Too,though some will seldom if ever mention such,in the background of their teaching,there is always the denominational type teaching if threatening the lost person with a Jesus Christ created hell of eternal punishment. I know that's wrong now and I hate to see that false threat used in any way. But,I think I need to keep in mind,that at least some who believe this and are wrong about it,at least some of them sincerely believe what they are saying. And at least that's better than the ones who simply teach/preach such to try and control some people and get money out of them.
Tom to Ronny:
That's the problem with church doctrine. You have to save yourself from eternal punishment in an pagan hell of torture in fire forever. Scripture says we're chosen before the disruption of the world, and it's in grace through faith that we're saved, not of works.
"He chooses us in Him before the disruption of the world" (Ephesians 1:4)
"For in grace, through faith, are you saved, and this is not out of you; it is God's approach present, not of works, lest anyone should be boasting." (Ephesians 2:8,9)
Ronny to Tom:
Amen! :-) And I knew when God saved me,that it was God who did that for me and not me saving myself. For it was God who let me know I was lost,God who led me to repentance toward God and God who took me on to faith in Jesus Christ. :-) So,I knew Who was there when I was 16 years old,I knew Who saved me. :-) Yet as I've said,I was brought up in a Calvinistic type teaching/preaching church and taught by some people; but not by God,that what God did for me,God only did for a few people,out of the whole human race. That latter part isn't true;but I believed it for many years and only came to see how false it was,when God showed me better,around 4 and a half year ago. :-) When God showed me,that in Adam all died and that in Jesus Christ all would be made alive.
:-) And that there was no such thing as a Jesus Christ created hell of eternal punishment. And when I saw the last part,I though how could anyone believe otherwise,for God is love? And it simply makes no sense,that God who is love,would create a hell of eternal punishment,not even for just one person! But I had believed God had created that hell and that simply because I was brought up in church,taught to believe such. Taught that by some people;but not by God.
Tom to Ronny
Amen. I was taught the same kind of stuff in the Catholic Church, but we're free from that nonsense now that we know the truth.
Ronny to Tom:
Amen and I know we both thank God for that! :-)
And I've lived here with my oldest Sis now,for several months and I also have another sister,a bit older than me,who lives in a local town. Several months ago,I was up at her house visiting and I told her that I was no longer a Calvinist in belief,as we'd been brought up in church and taught. That part didn't bother her,as both my sisters,after they married,sometime after that they and their husbands ended up at other local churches,who were Armenian/free will in belief and both came to see and believe things that way. So it didn't bother this sister at all,when I told her I was no longer Calvinist in belief;but what bothered her,was when I told her my belief now,was that God had elected/chosen to save all people and that by way of Jesus Christ and the cross. And she really flipped out and got mad, :-( when I told her as well,that I no longer believed in a Jesus Christ created hell,of eternal punishment. I mean,she really got loud and mad about that! :-( So that day,I stopped talking to her about such and soon went home.
Now our other and older sister,that I've lived with for awhile now,she doesn't agree with me on how I see and believes somethings now;but then she doesn't get flipping out mad, because she and I,don't see/agree on everything alike. This sister is also now, Armenian/free will in belief. And just a short while back,she and I were at one of our older brothers house,having supper with and playing games with our brother and his wife.
This brother,who was brought up in the same church as the rest of us,he's still Calvinistic in belief. And my older sister is Democrat and this older brother is Republican. So when it comes to religion and politics,when I'm around these two together,I never have brought up those things! (ha) LoL But the other night and I don't know who said something first; but my oldest sister,she let my older brother know that he was wrong and Armenian/free will was right. :-) Then this brother said something back and sister said something as well. With my bad hearing,I wasn't fully sure what she said? So I ask her some more and got a better grasp,of what she was saying. Right now,I don't remember exactly what that was? But I did up and say,that yes,I did believe that God had elected/chose who would be saved;but that the scripture,in Adam all died and in Jesus Christ all were made alive- that scripture showed that God had elected/chosen to save every person. But my older brother,still Calvinistic in belief,he didn't agree with me on that. :-) Wasn't quite sure what he said,what with my bad hearing? But I think he may believe that the people refererred to in that all verse are only those few,who he has been taught to believe,are the elect/chosen of God,to be saved? Much like we were raised up and taught to believe in church,that John 3:16 didn't mean God loved every person;but only those,that God had chosen/elected to save. Then this brother wrote down some scripture references and gave those to out sister. I'm sure it was scripture,that he believed proved how he believes it and which he believes,disproves out sisters Aremnian/free will way of believing. But our brother,he didn't write down any scripture references for me,to try and show me,why I was wrong on what I said. Not sure why he didn't?
Pretty soon,I will be trying out another hearing aid. :-) Can get one every 5 or 6 years, through Medicaid. Just hope the next one,works better than the one I now have. And from what I've read on some of this,I'm pretty set on what type of hearing aid I would like to try now. A body aid hearing aid,that is stronger than others. Up to now,I've always worn a behind the ear hearing aid. And I've asked at a local hearing aid place,if I can get a body type aid,with my Medicaid? And they told me,no problem on that. :-) And my hearing loss,is between severe and profound. So it was good to read some online,about some other people with that type of a hearing loss and how a modern day body aid hearing aid,had helped them. :-) And it sure would be nice to have such,that might help me that much? :-)
Didn't mean to get off on hearing aids that much! (ha) LoL But my hearing loss is one big reason,that I don't say somethings to some people,on a face to face basis. And it is also why I am so glad to be online,where I can post in groups like this. :-) Here,I only have to be able to see and read and not hear! :-) LoL
Quote from: RonnyTX on October 25, 2014, 06:56:11 AM
Quote from: Tom on October 24, 2014, 11:59:55 PM
Quote from: RonnyTX on October 24, 2014, 11:42:57 PM
Quote from: Tom on October 24, 2014, 05:48:07 PM
Quote from: RonnyTX on October 24, 2014, 05:08:56 PM
Quote from: Tom on October 23, 2014, 03:55:29 PM
Quote from: RonnyTX on October 23, 2014, 08:01:02 AM
Quote from: Tom on October 21, 2014, 03:41:52 PM
Right, "ecclesia" is literally "out-called," and it usually refers to those of us called out of the world to be the "body of Christ." Acts 19:32 just shows how the word was used for a secular purpose.
Ronny to Tom:
Another interesting part of this to me,is not only are we the ecclesia/church,the called out ones;but in the scripture,we are also described as the body of Jesus Christ,the temple of God. And if and when I choose to listen to them on TV,I can hear a number of preachers, preaching about what they believe will be a future,rebuilt Jewish temple. But at this moment,I can't remember hearing these same preachers,talk about the temple that is in the here and now. That is,the temple in this age,that is made up of all,who have been born of God. I wonder,why I so seldom hear any preacher,preach on and talk about that?
Tom to Ronny:
I don't watch TV at all because it's boring to me. So I don't watch TV preachers. I prefer to read scripture and communicate on this forum. I think the ecclesia, the body of Christ, is distinct from the church those preachers are leading, and that's why you don't hear the same thing you'll get from an accurate translation of scripture.
Tom to Ronny:
I think you're right that the ecclesia/church/body of Jesus Christ is a different thing from the denominational type preachers and churches I was speaking about. Though of course, there are people in those who are also members of the ecclesia/church/body/temple of Jesus Christ. Put there by God and not by themself or by any denominational type preacher.
And in the past,all that I had was the scripture as translated by various people and some deniminational type preachers on TV. And some of those God has used to bless me, even though I knew they were wrong on somethings. Well,even when both they and I didn't rightly understand somethings,God still used one denominational type TV preacher,to free me from "worship" of preachers and denominational teaching.
The one thing that really bothers me about any denominational preacher,that I might see and sometimes watch on TV,is that all of them believe and teach that a lost person must in some way save themself. That,by their supposed "free will." Too,though some will seldom if ever mention such,in the background of their teaching,there is always the denominational type teaching if threatening the lost person with a Jesus Christ created hell of eternal punishment. I know that's wrong now and I hate to see that false threat used in any way. But,I think I need to keep in mind,that at least some who believe this and are wrong about it,at least some of them sincerely believe what they are saying. And at least that's better than the ones who simply teach/preach such to try and control some people and get money out of them.
Tom to Ronny:
That's the problem with church doctrine. You have to save yourself from eternal punishment in an pagan hell of torture in fire forever. Scripture says we're chosen before the disruption of the world, and it's in grace through faith that we're saved, not of works.
"He chooses us in Him before the disruption of the world" (Ephesians 1:4)
"For in grace, through faith, are you saved, and this is not out of you; it is God's approach present, not of works, lest anyone should be boasting." (Ephesians 2:8,9)
Ronny to Tom:
Amen! :-) And I knew when God saved me,that it was God who did that for me and not me saving myself. For it was God who let me know I was lost,God who led me to repentance toward God and God who took me on to faith in Jesus Christ. :-) So,I knew Who was there when I was 16 years old,I knew Who saved me. :-) Yet as I've said,I was brought up in a Calvinistic type teaching/preaching church and taught by some people; but not by God,that what God did for me,God only did for a few people,out of the whole human race. That latter part isn't true;but I believed it for many years and only came to see how false it was,when God showed me better,around 4 and a half year ago. :-) When God showed me,that in Adam all died and that in Jesus Christ all would be made alive.
:-) And that there was no such thing as a Jesus Christ created hell of eternal punishment. And when I saw the last part,I though how could anyone believe otherwise,for God is love? And it simply makes no sense,that God who is love,would create a hell of eternal punishment,not even for just one person! But I had believed God had created that hell and that simply because I was brought up in church,taught to believe such. Taught that by some people;but not by God.
Tom to Ronny
Amen. I was taught the same kind of stuff in the Catholic Church, but we're free from that nonsense now that we know the truth.
Ronny to Tom:
Amen and I know we both thank God for that! :-)
And I've lived here with my oldest Sis now,for several months and I also have another sister,a bit older than me,who lives in a local town. Several months ago,I was up at her house visiting and I told her that I was no longer a Calvinist in belief,as we'd been brought up in church and taught. That part didn't bother her,as both my sisters,after they married,sometime after that they and their husbands ended up at other local churches,who were Armenian/free will in belief and both came to see and believe things that way. So it didn't bother this sister at all,when I told her I was no longer Calvinist in belief;but what bothered her,was when I told her my belief now,was that God had elected/chosen to save all people and that by way of Jesus Christ and the cross. And she really flipped out and got mad, :-( when I told her as well,that I no longer believed in a Jesus Christ created hell,of eternal punishment. I mean,she really got loud and mad about that! :-( So that day,I stopped talking to her about such and soon went home.
Now our other and older sister,that I've lived with for awhile now,she doesn't agree with me on how I see and believes somethings now;but then she doesn't get flipping out mad, because she and I,don't see/agree on everything alike. This sister is also now, Armenian/free will in belief. And just a short while back,she and I were at one of our older brothers house,having supper with and playing games with our brother and his wife.
This brother,who was brought up in the same church as the rest of us,he's still Calvinistic in belief. And my older sister is Democrat and this older brother is Republican. So when it comes to religion and politics,when I'm around these two together,I never have brought up those things! (ha) LoL But the other night and I don't know who said something first; but my oldest sister,she let my older brother know that he was wrong and Armenian/free will was right. :-) Then this brother said something back and sister said something as well. With my bad hearing,I wasn't fully sure what she said? So I ask her some more and got a better grasp,of what she was saying. Right now,I don't remember exactly what that was? But I did up and say,that yes,I did believe that God had elected/chose who would be saved;but that the scripture,in Adam all died and in Jesus Christ all were made alive- that scripture showed that God had elected/chosen to save every person. But my older brother,still Calvinistic in belief,he didn't agree with me on that. :-) Wasn't quite sure what he said,what with my bad hearing? But I think he may believe that the people refererred to in that all verse are only those few,who he has been taught to believe,are the elect/chosen of God,to be saved? Much like we were raised up and taught to believe in church,that John 3:16 didn't mean God loved every person;but only those,that God had chosen/elected to save. Then this brother wrote down some scripture references and gave those to out sister. I'm sure it was scripture,that he believed proved how he believes it and which he believes,disproves out sisters Aremnian/free will way of believing. But our brother,he didn't write down any scripture references for me,to try and show me,why I was wrong on what I said. Not sure why he didn't?
Pretty soon,I will be trying out another hearing aid. :-) Can get one every 5 or 6 years, through Medicaid. Just hope the next one,works better than the one I now have. And from what I've read on some of this,I'm pretty set on what type of hearing aid I would like to try now. A body aid hearing aid,that is stronger than others. Up to now,I've always worn a behind the ear hearing aid. And I've asked at a local hearing aid place,if I can get a body type aid,with my Medicaid? And they told me,no problem on that. :-) And my hearing loss,is between severe and profound. So it was good to read some online,about some other people with that type of a hearing loss and how a modern day body aid hearing aid,had helped them. :-) And it sure would be nice to have such,that might help me that much? :-)
Didn't mean to get off on hearing aids that much! (ha) LoL But my hearing loss is one big reason,that I don't say somethings to some people,on a face to face basis. And it is also why I am so glad to be online,where I can post in groups like this. :-) Here,I only have to be able to see and read and not hear! :-) LoL
My hearing isn't as good as it used to be due to skin diving, loud music, guns, Harleys, and working with very loud machines. I've got a brother whose hearing is worse than mine though. Here's a link for you comparing Calvinism, Arminianism, and Universalism.
http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/partuniv.html
Quote from: Tom on October 25, 2014, 02:51:32 PM
Quote from: RonnyTX on October 25, 2014, 06:56:11 AM
Quote from: Tom on October 24, 2014, 11:59:55 PM
Quote from: RonnyTX on October 24, 2014, 11:42:57 PM
Quote from: Tom on October 24, 2014, 05:48:07 PM
Quote from: RonnyTX on October 24, 2014, 05:08:56 PM
Quote from: Tom on October 23, 2014, 03:55:29 PM
Quote from: RonnyTX on October 23, 2014, 08:01:02 AM
Quote from: Tom on October 21, 2014, 03:41:52 PM
Right, "ecclesia" is literally "out-called," and it usually refers to those of us called out of the world to be the "body of Christ." Acts 19:32 just shows how the word was used for a secular purpose.
Ronny to Tom:
Another interesting part of this to me,is not only are we the ecclesia/church,the called out ones;but in the scripture,we are also described as the body of Jesus Christ,the temple of God. And if and when I choose to listen to them on TV,I can hear a number of preachers, preaching about what they believe will be a future,rebuilt Jewish temple. But at this moment,I can't remember hearing these same preachers,talk about the temple that is in the here and now. That is,the temple in this age,that is made up of all,who have been born of God. I wonder,why I so seldom hear any preacher,preach on and talk about that?
Tom to Ronny:
I don't watch TV at all because it's boring to me. So I don't watch TV preachers. I prefer to read scripture and communicate on this forum. I think the ecclesia, the body of Christ, is distinct from the church those preachers are leading, and that's why you don't hear the same thing you'll get from an accurate translation of scripture.
Tom to Ronny:
I think you're right that the ecclesia/church/body of Jesus Christ is a different thing from the denominational type preachers and churches I was speaking about. Though of course, there are people in those who are also members of the ecclesia/church/body/temple of Jesus Christ. Put there by God and not by themself or by any denominational type preacher.
And in the past,all that I had was the scripture as translated by various people and some deniminational type preachers on TV. And some of those God has used to bless me, even though I knew they were wrong on somethings. Well,even when both they and I didn't rightly understand somethings,God still used one denominational type TV preacher,to free me from "worship" of preachers and denominational teaching.
The one thing that really bothers me about any denominational preacher,that I might see and sometimes watch on TV,is that all of them believe and teach that a lost person must in some way save themself. That,by their supposed "free will." Too,though some will seldom if ever mention such,in the background of their teaching,there is always the denominational type teaching if threatening the lost person with a Jesus Christ created hell of eternal punishment. I know that's wrong now and I hate to see that false threat used in any way. But,I think I need to keep in mind,that at least some who believe this and are wrong about it,at least some of them sincerely believe what they are saying. And at least that's better than the ones who simply teach/preach such to try and control some people and get money out of them.
Tom to Ronny:
That's the problem with church doctrine. You have to save yourself from eternal punishment in an pagan hell of torture in fire forever. Scripture says we're chosen before the disruption of the world, and it's in grace through faith that we're saved, not of works.
"He chooses us in Him before the disruption of the world" (Ephesians 1:4)
"For in grace, through faith, are you saved, and this is not out of you; it is God's approach present, not of works, lest anyone should be boasting." (Ephesians 2:8,9)
Ronny to Tom:
Amen! :-) And I knew when God saved me,that it was God who did that for me and not me saving myself. For it was God who let me know I was lost,God who led me to repentance toward God and God who took me on to faith in Jesus Christ. :-) So,I knew Who was there when I was 16 years old,I knew Who saved me. :-) Yet as I've said,I was brought up in a Calvinistic type teaching/preaching church and taught by some people; but not by God,that what God did for me,God only did for a few people,out of the whole human race. That latter part isn't true;but I believed it for many years and only came to see how false it was,when God showed me better,around 4 and a half year ago. :-) When God showed me,that in Adam all died and that in Jesus Christ all would be made alive.
:-) And that there was no such thing as a Jesus Christ created hell of eternal punishment. And when I saw the last part,I though how could anyone believe otherwise,for God is love? And it simply makes no sense,that God who is love,would create a hell of eternal punishment,not even for just one person! But I had believed God had created that hell and that simply because I was brought up in church,taught to believe such. Taught that by some people;but not by God.
Tom to Ronny
Amen. I was taught the same kind of stuff in the Catholic Church, but we're free from that nonsense now that we know the truth.
Ronny to Tom:
Amen and I know we both thank God for that! :-)
And I've lived here with my oldest Sis now,for several months and I also have another sister,a bit older than me,who lives in a local town. Several months ago,I was up at her house visiting and I told her that I was no longer a Calvinist in belief,as we'd been brought up in church and taught. That part didn't bother her,as both my sisters,after they married,sometime after that they and their husbands ended up at other local churches,who were Armenian/free will in belief and both came to see and believe things that way. So it didn't bother this sister at all,when I told her I was no longer Calvinist in belief;but what bothered her,was when I told her my belief now,was that God had elected/chosen to save all people and that by way of Jesus Christ and the cross. And she really flipped out and got mad, :-( when I told her as well,that I no longer believed in a Jesus Christ created hell,of eternal punishment. I mean,she really got loud and mad about that! :-( So that day,I stopped talking to her about such and soon went home.
Now our other and older sister,that I've lived with for awhile now,she doesn't agree with me on how I see and believes somethings now;but then she doesn't get flipping out mad, because she and I,don't see/agree on everything alike. This sister is also now, Armenian/free will in belief. And just a short while back,she and I were at one of our older brothers house,having supper with and playing games with our brother and his wife.
This brother,who was brought up in the same church as the rest of us,he's still Calvinistic in belief. And my older sister is Democrat and this older brother is Republican. So when it comes to religion and politics,when I'm around these two together,I never have brought up those things! (ha) LoL But the other night and I don't know who said something first; but my oldest sister,she let my older brother know that he was wrong and Armenian/free will was right. :-) Then this brother said something back and sister said something as well. With my bad hearing,I wasn't fully sure what she said? So I ask her some more and got a better grasp,of what she was saying. Right now,I don't remember exactly what that was? But I did up and say,that yes,I did believe that God had elected/chose who would be saved;but that the scripture,in Adam all died and in Jesus Christ all were made alive- that scripture showed that God had elected/chosen to save every person. But my older brother,still Calvinistic in belief,he didn't agree with me on that. :-) Wasn't quite sure what he said,what with my bad hearing? But I think he may believe that the people refererred to in that all verse are only those few,who he has been taught to believe,are the elect/chosen of God,to be saved? Much like we were raised up and taught to believe in church,that John 3:16 didn't mean God loved every person;but only those,that God had chosen/elected to save. Then this brother wrote down some scripture references and gave those to out sister. I'm sure it was scripture,that he believed proved how he believes it and which he believes,disproves out sisters Aremnian/free will way of believing. But our brother,he didn't write down any scripture references for me,to try and show me,why I was wrong on what I said. Not sure why he didn't?
Pretty soon,I will be trying out another hearing aid. :-) Can get one every 5 or 6 years, through Medicaid. Just hope the next one,works better than the one I now have. And from what I've read on some of this,I'm pretty set on what type of hearing aid I would like to try now. A body aid hearing aid,that is stronger than others. Up to now,I've always worn a behind the ear hearing aid. And I've asked at a local hearing aid place,if I can get a body type aid,with my Medicaid? And they told me,no problem on that. :-) And my hearing loss,is between severe and profound. So it was good to read some online,about some other people with that type of a hearing loss and how a modern day body aid hearing aid,had helped them. :-) And it sure would be nice to have such,that might help me that much? :-)
Didn't mean to get off on hearing aids that much! (ha) LoL But my hearing loss is one big reason,that I don't say somethings to some people,on a face to face basis. And it is also why I am so glad to be online,where I can post in groups like this. :-) Here,I only have to be able to see and read and not hear! :-) LoL
Tom to Ronny:
My hearing isn't as good as it used to be due to skin diving, loud music, guns, Harleys, and working with very loud machines. I've got a brother whose hearing is worse than mine though. Here's a link for you comparing Calvinism, Arminianism, and Universalism.
http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/partuniv.html
Ronny to Tom:
Thank you Tom. :-) I'm been reading some on that link and some other connected to it,for parts of the last two days and I've really enjoyed that. :-)
Sorry to hear about your hearing and your brothers too. :-( Hope hearing aids,can help the both of you? Yesterday,I went with my oldest Sis,over towards Dallas,Texas. We took dinner and ate with her youngest boy,his wife and their 3 month old. Sure is a sweet kid and Sis and I got to be at the hospital,earlier in the summer,when he was born. :-) I told his parents that they must be fertilizing him,'cause that boy,he sure is growing! :-) LoL
A few days ago,Sis told me something about him,her youngest grandbaby. I didn't understand it all and I think I didn't want to,so I didn't ask her to say it again or write such down for me,so I would know for sure,what she was saying. But after we got back here yesterday,she told me again last night. Seems at least one doctor thinks,that her youngest grandson is deaf! :-( And we both talked about it and both wondering,how can a doctor tell,that a 3 month old is deaf or how bad of a hearing loss,he might have?
And when we talked to the baby and smiled at him,he would smile back and look real happy. :-) But I have no idea,if he was hearing us or not? Or just going by our facial expressions and us holding and hugging and playing with him,etc?
One thing Sis told me,that bothers me too,is that this doctor or doctors,already have told the childs parents,that they want to do an operation on him,about his ears. The best I understand it now,they want him to have what's called a colchear (sp?) implant. I need to ask Sis about this again,just to be sure? But last night I was telling her,I had read about that operation and implant before and it can be good for someone,who is completely deaf
or right close to that. Someone,that a regular hearing aid,just will not help at all. And before,I've read up on this coclear implant proceedure and I need to do so again. I'm not sure if I 100% remember this part right or not? But if seems to me,that when they do such an implant,they cut the nerve part,that goes to your ear. And that is the part, where sounds are transmitted,from one part of the ear to the brain. This,so a person can hear. And it bothers me,that they would do such,on a 3 month old baby. Maybe I'm wrong on this? But like Sis,I sure would like them to wait a bit longer,to be absolutely sure about how much or little,this 3 months olds hearing loss is? Because once they do cut that nerve in the ear,you are definately deaf through the normal way our ears work and the best I understand it now,such a cutting of that nerve,can never be undone. Or at least, that's the best I remember reading about such,just a few years ago. Want to go back and read more about that online. See if I'm remembering this part right and if so,if it's still the same way today or not? Never know,because it was probably 3 to 5 years ago, when I read about the coclear implant operation,etc and in that amount of time,a good bit can change,in the medical field.
And thank you again,for that link you put in your last post to me. :-) I have had a good time,reading on that page and some connected to it. And as I've said,I was brought up in
in Calvinists type believing/teaching church. So I was taught to believe that God only chose/elected to save a very small percent of the human race and the rest,they simply died and went to hell. Then the Arminian side,I knew that they taught that God could save no one,so only a few would use their "free will" and be saved and the rest would go to hell. So one side said God could save everyone;but chose not to and the other said God couldn't save anyone;but the lost person had to save themself. And I have the bad feeling,that there are more than a few people on both of those sides and in local churches,who truly hate the idea,that God not only can save everyone,by way of Jesus Christ and the cross,not only can;but has chosen/elected to do that very thing. Yeah,it bothers me a lot,to think that some people can really hate that idea/belief. It's hard for me to imagine,why anyone on the Calvinist side,would have even the idea of UR? Unless they some how thought that would make them less special to God? And the very idea of that,like that,is idiotic! And on the Arminian side, I have seen how some there,think they are more special,because they have been taught to believe the lie,that God couldn't save them,so they had to do something,to save themself. Then some on that side,they jump all over the lost person,to do as they believe they did and they tell the lost person,that in that way,they can also save themself. Then some on that side,they get mad and angry,if the lost person doesn't believe them and do as they tell them to do.
I better stop for now and go walk my little dog. I'm sure he's wondering,just where I am this morning?! (ha) He's mostly a miniture Doberman by breed,weights all of 10 pounds; but he thinks he's a big dog! :-) LoL
Ronny, that continuing quote was getting kind of crazy. So I discontinued it, but this is my reply to your message. My brother had his tonsils and adenoids removed when he was kid, and I had my tonsils taken out but not for hearing trouble, for a constant sore throat. Then years later I learned that it's probably best to leave those in the body. In my case, I think treating the infection would have been a better option. I don't know if my brother's surgery helped or not, but the way our mom figured out he was hard of hearing is by asking him if he wanted some ice cream one day. He didn't get all excited about it. That's how she figured he mustn't have heard what she said. I don't remember hearing about those cochlear implants when we were young. My hearing wasn't bad when I was young, but it got worse through the years due to my lifestyle. When you get older everything fades a little, but I don't think I need a hearing aid even though I tell my brother he ought to get one. It bugs my sister that I don't wear glasses like the rest of my siblings do except to read. Anyway, since you said you enjoyed that last link, here are a couple of good ones for you.
http://concordant.org/
http://www.saviourofall.org/charts/ChartOfJudgments.html
Quote from: Tom on October 27, 2014, 03:57:50 PM
Ronny, that continuing quote was getting kind of crazy. So I discontinued it, but this is my reply to your message.
Ronny to Tom:
I know what you mean. :-)
Tom to Ronny:
My brother had his tonsils and adenoids removed when he was kid, and I had my tonsils taken out but not for hearing trouble, for a constant sore throat. Then years later I learned that it's probably best to leave those in the body. In my case, I think treating the infection would have been a better option.
Ronny to Tom:
I think that's probably so,as I've read in the past,at least about the tonsils,that there is something about them/in them,that helps our body fight infections.
Tom to Ronny:
I don't know if my brother's surgery helped or not, but the way our mom figured out he was hard of hearing is by asking him if he wanted some ice cream one day. He didn't get all excited about it. That's how she figured he mustn't have heard what she said.
Ronny to Tom:
That would surely tip a parent off! :-) LoL
Tom to Ronny:
I don't remember hearing about those cochlear implants when we were young. My hearing wasn't bad when I was young, but it got worse through the years due to my lifestyle. When you get older everything fades a little, but I don't think I need a hearing aid even though I tell my brother he ought to get one.
Ronny to Tom:
What has faded for me,is my energy level! :-) Say what I need,is some of that energy I see in my little great nieces and nephews! :-) Seems they all have more energy,than they need! LoL
Tom to Ronny:
It bugs my sister that I don't wear glasses like the rest of my siblings do except to read.
Ronny to Tom:
I used to wear glasses for everything;but then had cataract surgery on one eye a few years ago. Ended up with 20/30 or 20/40 vision in that eye,so glasses needed for driving any more. :-) Also saw some cheap reading glasses at Walmart,for $10 or so and they worked great for me. :-) Lost one pair and went back for some others;but before I had to get some that time,I'd noticed they also had reading glasses there in a pack,3 pair for less than $4! I tried those and they all worked great for me! :-)
Tom to Ronny:
Anyway, since you said you enjoyed that last link, here are a couple of good ones for you.
http://concordant.org/
http://www.saviourofall.org/charts/ChartOfJudgments.html
Ronny to Tom:
Thank you for those! :-) And I've already enjoyed reading some on those pages, yesterday evening! :-)