We will be changed

[Molly]

Is the word "if" important here?

Interesting.

I think Paul knew some would be alive when this happens.  Therefore, the tent would be transformed, not destroyed.

BTW, we have a new date to look forward to:  tabernacles, this year, Sept 28, 29, 30 [and maybe the 27th, the day before tabernacles,  too].  :winkgrin:

[Molly]

Also,..

Joh 14:2  In my Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you; I go to prepare a place for you;

"mansions"

G3438
μονή
monē
mon-ay'
From G3306; a staying, that is, residence (the act or the place): - abode, mansion.


Now we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands.
--2 Cor 5:1

[eternal] "house" [in heaven]

G3614
οἰκία
oikia
oy-kee'-ah
From G3624; properly residence (abstractly), but usually (concretely) an abode (literally or figuratively); by implication a family (especially domestics): - home, house (-hold).

King James says, if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved..

"tabernacle"
G4636
σκῆνος
skēnos
skay'-nos
From G4633; a hut or temporary residence, that is, (figuratively) the human body (as the abode of the spirit): - tabernacle.


In other words, my spirit is now living temporarily in a tent, which is the tabernacle of God [in the wilderness].


By faith he became a sojourner in the land of promise, as in a land not his own, dwelling in tents, with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

--Heb 11

[sheila]

Hebrews 11;5

        BY FAITH ENOCH WAS TAKEN FROM THIS LIFE,SO THAT HE DID NOT EXPIERENCE DEATH;HE COULD NOT BE FOUND

        BECAUSE GOD HAD TAKEN HIM AWAY. FOR BEFORE HE WAS TAKEN HE WAS COMMENDED AS ONE WHO PLEASED GOD

[micah7:9]

Hebrews 11;5

        BY FAITH ENOCH WAS TAKEN FROM THIS LIFE,SO THAT HE DID NOT EXPIERENCE DEATH;HE COULD NOT BE FOUND

        BECAUSE GOD HAD TAKEN HIM AWAY. FOR BEFORE HE WAS TAKEN HE WAS COMMENDED AS ONE WHO PLEASED GOD

Read further   Heb 11:13  These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

[micah7:9]

That's why I wonder why we teach as tho there is an individual quality that we have when we are changed.
"Branches in one vine

We are members of one body now--the human race, the body of Adam.  You and I have the same body, Micah, that's why doctors can go to medical school and learn how to treat both of us for heart disease or cancer or the flu.   But, we are still individuals, with our own peculiarities, because God made us that way.  Different but the same.

So it will be in our glorified bodies.

And I can find scripture and verse for "So it will be in our glorified bodies." Where?

Philippians 3:20–21 ESV
20 But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.

I think there are also verse that speak indirectly about glorified bodies.
Our bodies, without exception, get old and die. They won't last 'for ever'. Not even God can stop that because that's the way the body is designed. It can only be stopped by a new design :2c:

Yes, The Bible says we will be changed, transformed, transfigued.

[micah7:9]

Ok, this is the way Im understanding what most of you are saying, we will receive individual glorified spiritual bodies (abodes) when we all get to heaven, is this what is being said?

[Molly]

Hebrews 11;5

        BY FAITH ENOCH WAS TAKEN FROM THIS LIFE,SO THAT HE DID NOT EXPIERENCE DEATH;HE COULD NOT BE FOUND

        BECAUSE GOD HAD TAKEN HIM AWAY. FOR BEFORE HE WAS TAKEN HE WAS COMMENDED AS ONE WHO PLEASED GOD

Read further   Heb 11:13  These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

He's referring to those starting in Heb 11:7.  By faith, by faith, by faith...

Enoch was translated by God.


[By faith Enoch was] "translated"
G3346
μετατίθημι
metatithēmi
met-at-ith'-ay-mee
From G3326 and G5087; to transfer, that is, (literally) transport, (by implication) exchange, (reflexively) change sides, or (figuratively) pervert: - carry over, change, remove, translate, turn.

[Beloved Servant]

..."when we all get to heaven"      <———  Hollywood fairy tale.



Heaven is not a place. It is a state of being, a spiritual condition. Jesus was in heaven while on earth.

[Molly]

..."when we all get to heaven"      <———  Hollywood fairy tale.



Heaven is not a place. It is a state of being, a spiritual condition. Jesus was in heaven while on earth.

I wouldn't go that far--hollywood fairy tale--because we will need a place to live until the Millenium, when Christ establishes his kingdom on earth.

But, yes, it is also what you said.

[micah7:9]

Hebrews 11;5

        BY FAITH ENOCH WAS TAKEN FROM THIS LIFE,SO THAT HE DID NOT EXPIERENCE DEATH;HE COULD NOT BE FOUND

        BECAUSE GOD HAD TAKEN HIM AWAY. FOR BEFORE HE WAS TAKEN HE WAS COMMENDED AS ONE WHO PLEASED GOD

Read further   Heb 11:13  These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

He's referring to those starting in Heb 11:7.  By faith, by faith, by faith...

Enoch was translated by God.


[By faith Enoch was] "translated"
G3346
μετατίθημι
metatithēmi
met-at-ith'-ay-mee
From G3326 and G5087; to transfer, that is, (literally) transport, (by implication) exchange, (reflexively) change sides, or (figuratively) pervert: - carry over, change, remove, translate, turn.

Well, here again its proven that the spoken word of Jesus is perhaps ilrelevent when He said....Joh 3:13  and no one hath gone up to the heaven, except he who out of the heaven came down--the Son of Man who is in the heaven.

"Heaven is not a place. It is a state of being, a spiritual condition. Jesus was in heaven while on earth." Beloved
Amen :bigGrin:

[Molly]

Hebrews 11;5

        BY FAITH ENOCH WAS TAKEN FROM THIS LIFE,SO THAT HE DID NOT EXPIERENCE DEATH;HE COULD NOT BE FOUND

        BECAUSE GOD HAD TAKEN HIM AWAY. FOR BEFORE HE WAS TAKEN HE WAS COMMENDED AS ONE WHO PLEASED GOD

Read further   Heb 11:13  These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

He's referring to those starting in Heb 11:7.  By faith, by faith, by faith...

Enoch was translated by God.


[By faith Enoch was] "translated"
G3346
μετατίθημι
metatithēmi
met-at-ith'-ay-mee
From G3326 and G5087; to transfer, that is, (literally) transport, (by implication) exchange, (reflexively) change sides, or (figuratively) pervert: - carry over, change, remove, translate, turn.

Well, here again its proven that the spoken word of Jesus is perhaps ilrelevent when He said....Joh 3:13  and no one hath gone up to the heaven, except he who out of the heaven came down--the Son of Man who is in the heaven.

"Heaven is not a place. It is a state of being, a spiritual condition. Jesus was in heaven while on earth." Beloved
Amen :bigGrin:

Micah even Paul said he went to heaven--whether in or out of the body, he did not know, only God knows.

If you think you see an apparent contradiction between two scriptures, it means you are not understanding one of them.

[thinktank]

Amen

[thinktank]

(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
(Joh 7:39)

Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
(Joh 20:17)

This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
(Act 2:32-33)

But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
(1Co 15:35-44)

I think that we are living stones, joined to the chief corner stone, growing into a habitation of God in the Spirit-individual stones fitly joined together becoming also at the same time one temple

Branches in one vine

Members of one body

Beloved, it does not yet appear what we shall be, but we know this, when He appears we shall be like Him for we shall see Him as He is.

In other words, we know some things, but not as much as we think we kno, and some things we see through a glass darkly, and so it will remain because the Lord made it so, lest we boast against one another in our "knowledge". Peace y'all, John

I think some of the faith, the champions e.g Mathew, Mark , Luke, John, Paul will receive greater glory than most christians. This is the prize they receive for being Godly. Jesus said to store riches in heaven. Those who are diligently labouring for the gospel of Jesus Christ will have abundance of treasures in heaven. We cannot fathom what these treasures are as Paul said, no man knows what God has prepared for them that love Him.

But the parable of the workers in the vineyard shows that all of Christs sheep in this age will receive the same reward of everlasting life, because I believe that to be the basic wage and payment of being a believer, but any additional works are paid with heavenly treasure.

[sheila]

Ezekiel 2;1

     He said to me, 'SON OF MAN,STAND UP ON YOUR FEET' AND I WILL SPEAK tO YOU"v 3 SON OF MAN. ch 3  SON OF MAN eat what is

   before you.....and so on and so on   Ezekiel ch 47;6........AS HE SPOKE  THE SPIRIT CAME INTO ME AND RAISED ME TO MY FEET


     now consider...just 'what/who,is the SON OF MAN..Mark 9;9 the transgiguration.......AS they were coming down the mountain,Jesus gave them

   orders NOT TO TELL anyone what they had seen until the SON OF MAN had risen from the dead...they kept the matter to themselves,

  discussing what 'rising from the dead meant

[jabcat]

Just want to say, you guys are doing a FANTASTIC job discussing something on which there is disagreement.  That's what we're after here - discussing, reasoning, while still respecting each other, "in honor preferring one another".  I can learn from your behavior here.   :mblush:      No insults, insinuations, name-calling.    :thumbsup:    Great job!   

[micah7:9]

"Micah even Paul said he went to heaven--whether in or out of the body, he did not know, only God knows.

If you think you see an apparent contradiction between two scriptures, it means you are not understanding one of them." Molly

Do you understand in the spirit? And just where do you see or understand heaven 1,2,or 3 to be?
As for Mat 17:9  And as they are coming down from the mount, Jesus charged them, saying, `Say to no one the vision, till the Son of Man out of the dead may rise.' vision=something gazed at.

May I ask why it would be I, who would be here..."If you think you see an apparent contradiction between two scriptures, it means you are not understanding one of them" rather than say...... you?

[sheila]

Psalms 144;3

..........O'LORD  WHAT IS MAN.....THAT YOU CARE FOR HIM,

          the SON OF MAN    ....THAT YOU THINK OF HIM


..........MAN IS LIKE A BREATH....HIS DAYS ARE LIKE A FLEETING SHADOW



     Reach down your hand from on high...deliver me and rescue me from the mighty waters...from foreigners whose mouth are full of lies

    the vision was a prophecy of what transfiguration/change would occur when the SON OF MAN out of the dead may rise......the very body/glory that is due

   all mankind.

[micah7:9]

Amen! :bigGrin:  Change!

[micah7:9]

That's why I wonder why we teach as tho there is an individual quality that we have when we are changed.
"Branches in one vine

We are members of one body now--the human race, the body of Adam.  You and I have the same body, Micah, that's why doctors can go to medical school and learn how to treat both of us for heart disease or cancer or the flu.   But, we are still individuals, with our own peculiarities, because God made us that way.  Different but the same.

So it will be in our glorified bodies.

But see there it is again. "So it will be in our glorified bodies."  What is our glorified bpdy?
Glorified=G1392 to render (or esteem) glorious (in a wide application): - (make) glorify (-ious), full of (have) glory, honour, magnify
2Th 1:10  when He may come to be glorified in his saints G1740  endoxazō  to glorify: - glorify.

[Molly]

`Say to no one the vision, till the Son of Man out of the dead may rise.' vision=something gazed at.

Something gazed at that is real, even though it might not be understood at the level of reality where most people exist.

"vision"
G3705
ὅραμα
horama
hor'-am-ah
From G3708; something gazed at, that is, a spectacle (especially supernatural): - sight, vision.





1And Moses went up from the plains of Moab unto the mountain of Nebo, to the top of Pisgah, that is over against Jericho. And the LORD shewed him all the land of Gilead, unto Dan,

2And all Naphtali, and the land of Ephraim, and Manasseh, and all the land of Judah, unto the utmost sea,

3And the south, and the plain of the valley of Jericho, the city of palm trees, unto Zoar.

4And the LORD said unto him, This is the land which I sware unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, saying, I will give it unto thy seed: I have caused thee to see it with thine eyes, but thou shalt not go over thither.

5So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD.

--Deut 34



We see the LORD on the mountain with Moses showing him what is to come, a vision of the promised land.  What was Moses allowed to see?  Just a bunch of empty land?

If we stand behind them on the mountain and look with them, what will we see?  We will see what they are looking at--the flip side of the vision, being watched from the position of those already in the promised land.



As the men watched, Jesus' appearance was transformed so that his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as light.

And behold, there appeared to them Moses and Elijah, talking with him.

--Mat 17

[Molly]

What is our glorified bpdy?

At the risk of repeating myself, a glorified body is one that is vivified by the quickening Spirit, thereby immortal.

a glimpse of it--

his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as light.

[micah7:9]

What is our glorified bpdy?

At the risk of repeating myself, a glorified body is one that is vivified by the quickening Spirit, thereby immortal.

a glimpse of it--

his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as light.

Again, I understand glorified, so when we are vivified(a life giving spirit) we become just as Him?

"his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as light." You do understand this to be spiritual yes.

[micah7:9]

I have been studying all those verses and others as well. I see and understand the many member body that Paul speaks of; those who make up the the body of Christ now here on earth. How it must be the whole body working together as one. Yet this Body of many, here To Day, is to mature and grow into The Christ (Son) the Overcomer and for that it will be the mind of Christ Jesus(one mind) that must be fully grown in that body. So there are no individual minds working in this body, only one. So when we are ALL in ALL where is the individual in all this?
I dont know, Im with you all, thats what Ive been taught and have accepted a long time. But it just seems the Lord is taking a people that will HEAR (not saying thats me especially) to a higher understanding of ONE.. when all is finished or complete. I am probably being misunderstood.

Peace and Love Through Jesus

[Molly]

What is our glorified bpdy?

At the risk of repeating myself, a glorified body is one that is vivified by the quickening Spirit, thereby immortal.

a glimpse of it--

his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as light.

Again, I understand glorified, so when we are vivified(a life giving spirit) we become just as Him?

"his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as light." You do understand this to be spiritual yes.

We become just as him in body, filled with the HS, given the mind of Christ, to the saving of our souls.

understand it to be spiritual?  What do you mean? I understand it to be literal.

The life of our current bodies is in the blood--for which cause you are always accusing me of being transient--in danger of speedy disappearance--like the animals. 

The life of our glorified bodies will be in the Spirit.



54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
--1Cor 15

[Beloved Servant]

At the risk of repeating myself, a glorified body is one that is vivified by the quickening Spirit, thereby immortal.

For some reason, I've taken a liking to the word permanent.
At the risk of repeating myself, a glorified body is one that is vivified by the quickening Spirit, thereby permanent.
Works for me!
No one takes my life He said, I lay it down.