Tentmaker Forum

Discussions Relating to Universal Reconciliation => Lounge => Topic started by: Cristina100 on April 03, 2016, 01:00:49 AM

Title: Traditionalist websites
Post by: Cristina100 on April 03, 2016, 01:00:49 AM
I feel so frustrated when I visit traditionalist websites.
Title: Re: Traditionalist websites
Post by: jugghead on April 03, 2016, 01:44:00 AM
You are partaking of the life of Christ, it is no different than when Christ looked upon Jerusalem and said,

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!" (Matthew 23:37)

We look upon other groups and wish for all to be united in love, and it grieves His Spirit in us that the truth has not yet been manifested in all but we rest in faith that it is going to happen.

Another one is (from the NASB)

"I have come to cast fire upon the earth; and how I wish it were already kindled!" (Luke 12:49)

We wish the truth was burning in all
Title: Re: Traditionalist websites
Post by: GodIsLove on April 03, 2016, 03:36:25 AM
Cristina, do you now believe in Christian UR?

It is hard to read or listen to hellfire believers but I try my best to love them and understand that they are trying their best to follow what they think God wants (most of them anyway) and they will eventually be corrected.

It's hard though. It slanders God's image and makes Him out to be heartless, that we have a few years on earth which is a fallen sinful and confusing place, and we are supposed to find and believe in Jesus in all this muck OR ELSE we will burn for eternity. How unfair. The cards are stacked against us, many are raised Muslim, Catholic, atheist, Buddhist, many people have to live through trauma, starvation, war, abuse...just to continue to be tortured for eternity for not believing the right things.

Title: Re: Traditionalist websites
Post by: Searching_For_The_Truth on April 03, 2016, 05:16:46 AM
It is best to pray that Lord Jesus opens their eyes like he did with us and have faith that in due time their eyes will be opened.
Title: Re: Traditionalist websites
Post by: Patinak on April 03, 2016, 05:53:11 AM
Great posts y'all!
Title: Re: Traditionalist websites
Post by: Cristina100 on April 04, 2016, 05:44:14 PM
I watched this video on youtube by Jacklyn Glenn a former christian titled Jesus or Hell.She then says that it is good that the universalist remained open minded but there is a lot of things in the bible that contradict that.
Title: Re: Traditionalist websites
Post by: Lazarus Short on April 04, 2016, 06:34:55 PM
The Bible can be interpreted as supporting eternal torture, annihilation, or universal reconciliation, but I believe the latter theory fits the Scriptures far better than the first two.

Consider God's fire.  Most people see it as punishing and consuming, but in fact, the first time we come across it in the Bible, it is burning in a bush without consuming the bush.  His fire is punishing and consuming only to our carnal viewpoint - it is actually cleansing and purifying, burning away our wood, hay and stubble, but not consuming the sinner.
Title: Re: Traditionalist websites
Post by: micah7:9 on April 04, 2016, 07:11:22 PM
 :dsunny:
Title: Re: Traditionalist websites
Post by: GodIsLove on April 04, 2016, 08:58:42 PM
Quote from: Lazarus Short on April 04, 2016, 06:34:55 PM
The Bible can be interpreted as supporting eternal torture, annihilation, or universal reconciliation, but I believe the latter theory fits the Scriptures far better than the first two.

Consider God's fire.  Most people see it as punishing and consuming, but in fact, the first time we come across it in the Bible, it is burning in a bush without consuming the bush.  His fire is punishing and consuming only to our carnal viewpoint - it is actually cleansing and purifying, burning away our wood, hay and stubble, but not consuming the sinner.

:dsunny: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Traditionalist websites
Post by: marie glen on April 05, 2016, 06:12:34 PM
Quote from: Lazarus Short on April 04, 2016, 06:34:55 PM
The Bible can be interpreted as supporting eternal torture, annihilation, or universal reconciliation, but I believe the latter theory fits the Scriptures far better than the first two.

Consider God's fire.  Most people see it as punishing and consuming, but in fact, the first time we come across it in the Bible, it is burning in a bush without consuming the bush.  His fire is punishing and consuming only to our carnal viewpoint - it is actually cleansing and purifying, burning away our wood, hay and stubble, but not consuming the sinner.

Amen!!  :thumbsup: :dsunny:

Quote from: Patinak on April 03, 2016, 05:53:11 AM
Great posts y'all!
:iagree:

Quote from: Cristina100 on April 03, 2016, 01:00:49 AM
I feel so frustrated when I visit traditionalist websites.

     Me too!! :faint:
Title: Re: Traditionalist websites
Post by: SarahR37 on April 15, 2016, 05:53:56 PM
So... I read in here that everyone believe different things. That there is a Hell? And that there's isn't Hell... and that there going to be a 2nd coming and that it already happened in 70AD.... so..... I know my personal experience that I am going to heaven. And that everyone will eventually go to heaven. If they believe or not. And I know the 2nd coming already came. But people still quotes that it haven't?  What is it???? I always want thw truth and nothing but the truth.  Thanks. Love you all!!!
Title: Re: Traditionalist websites
Post by: rosered on April 15, 2016, 07:03:44 PM
Quote from: jugghead on April 03, 2016, 01:44:00 AM
You are partaking of the life of Christ, it is no different than when Christ looked upon Jerusalem and said,

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!" (Matthew 23:37)

We look upon other groups and wish for all to be united in love, and it grieves His Spirit in us that the truth has not yet been manifested in all but we rest in faith that it is going to happen.

Another one is (from the NASB)

"I have come to cast fire upon the earth; and how I wish it were already kindled!" (Luke 12:49)

We wish the truth was burning in all

  AMEN 

Thinking along the same lines   Jugg   :dsunny: By GODS GRACE AND TRUTH .

    Two bodies     , one body of death [EARTH  OF  ADAM,  TORMENT ]    and the other body  made alive in CHRIST SPIRIT [  LIFE AND PEACE]

one was always   carnal and beastly  and inherited the things of the earth  being corruption and  death was its inheritance     

    1"Then I kept looking because of the sound of the boastful words which the horn was speaking; I kept looking until the beast was slain, and its body was destroyed and given to the burning fire. 12"As for the rest of the beasts, their dominion was taken away, but an extension of life was granted to them for an appointed period of time....    they were  given in their minds to hate the whore and burn her flesh with fire also

The Victory of the Lamb
...15And he said to me, "The waters which you saw where the harlot sits, are peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues.

16"And the ten horns which you saw, and the beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and will burn her up with fire. 17"For God has put it in their hearts to execute His purpose by having a common purpose, and by giving their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God will be fulfilled....

Ezekiel 16:37
therefore I am going to gather all your lovers, with whom you found pleasure, those you loved as well as those you hated. I will gather them against you from all around and will strip you in front of them, and they will see you stark naked.

Ezekiel 16:39
Then I will deliver you into the hands of your lovers, and they will tear down your mounds and destroy your lofty shrines. They will strip you of your clothes and take your fine jewelry and leave you stark naked.

Revelation 12:3
Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads.

Revelation 17:12
"The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast.

Revelation 18:8
Therefore in one day her plagues will overtake her: death, mourning and famine. She will be consumed by fire, for mighty is the Lord God who judges her.

Revelation 18:17
In one hour such great wealth has been brought to ruin!' "Every sea captain, and all who travel by ship, the sailors, and all who earn their living from the sea, will stand far off.

Revelation 18:19
They will throw dust on their heads, and with weeping and mourning cry out: "'Woe! Woe to you, great city, where all who had ships on the sea became rich through her wealth! In one hour she has been brought to ruin!'

Revelation 19:18
so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small."
I do believe it is when we see the   evil of religion   , that hold it has on  many peoples  .   our own carnal nature hates   naturally  and without the love of God   working in them by the Holy Spirit   the  divisions is  insane and has been for centuries  and centuries    all this  slaying and death over ''religion ''

   Paul even said    , If I give my body to be  burned and have not LOVE  OF THE SPIRIT  it is pointless ..

  Love
...2If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.

4Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant,

We can see this   all happening    in many countries   ,  Even Hitler was one among the crowds   though history as a king of the earth and beast   , carnally  to destroy     HER

Yet it is  not  a general thinking     of what we see happening   right now even over the muslim  conflicts of wars and dying  in their faith   all of them   

  carnally thinking or not  , GOD HIMSELF has made the divisions long ago  by HIS   OWN two edged SWORD / WORD   and the SPIRIT  OF TRUTH will carry it out to the end    and  given over to the burning fire      in the earth  , GOD IS A CONSUMING FIRE  , none of this has ever   changed  , BY HIS WORD all of us are being  judged

beastly natured  to  being spiritual natured  and what   must die    within us all    and   what remains is  LIFE .  That was always    ALL His in the first place  to do as HE pleases .....

For me,  I don't believe  I realized just how much GOD is in control , but it is finally dawning on me   ,  and am slow  in many ways   to catching on , just thankful   for so much  loving  and merciful grace    and patience  toward us all  in Adam , to  be fully     ALIVE in Christ   and that joy set before us all ..
Title: Re: Traditionalist websites
Post by: GodIsLove on April 15, 2016, 07:27:07 PM
Rose said "For me,  I don't believe  I realized just how much GOD is in control , but it is finally dawning on me   ,  and am slow  in many ways   to catching on , just thankful   for so much  loving  and merciful grace    and patience  toward us all  in Adam , to  be fully     ALIVE in Christ   and that joy set before us all .."

YES the more I learn about God and the closer I grow to Him I am realizing this more and more. Working toward trusting, praying, and loving Him and all of His creation.
Title: Re: Traditionalist websites
Post by: rosered on April 15, 2016, 10:44:13 PM
Quote from: GodIsLove on April 15, 2016, 07:27:07 PM
Rose said "For me,  I don't believe  I realized just how much GOD is in control , but it is finally dawning on me   ,  and am slow  in many ways   to catching on , just thankful   for so much  loving  and merciful grace    and patience  toward us all  in Adam , to  be fully     ALIVE in Christ   and that joy set before us all .."

YES the more I learn about God and the closer I grow to Him I am realizing this more and more. Working toward trusting, praying, and loving Him and all of His creation.

  I am too sis ,   as well   as all things I took for granted are being taken   , torn down and utterly destroyed before my eyes    , so  much suffering and loss in Adam /mankind , but  is  still  rising in Christ  in the victory by His merciful grace   Keeping our hearts open to receive Him.

...56The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law;

57 but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your toil is not in vain in the Lord.

   
Title: Re: Traditionalist websites
Post by: jugghead on April 16, 2016, 01:52:42 AM
If God is in complete control, which I believe He is ..... and because I believe He is, I also believe; that at any given moment in time, everyone is exactly where they are suppose to be.

Even if we feel we are missing out on something, or feel empty ..... does not a vessel have to be emptied of the old before it can be filled with the new? Does not the temple have to be cleansed first? Are you not a new wineskin? Enter into His rest and KNOW He will fill you.

Even if we feel we are missing the mark, for is that not the dross rising to the top for Him to take away, leaving only the pure?
Title: Re: Traditionalist websites
Post by: darryl on April 16, 2016, 01:53:28 AM
Quote from: jugghead on April 16, 2016, 01:52:42 AM
If God is in complete control, which I believe He is ..... and because I believe He is, I also believe; that at any given moment in time, everyone is exactly where they are suppose to be.

Even if we feel we are missing out on something, or feel empty ..... does not a vessel have to be emptied of the old before it can be filled with the new? Does not the temple have to be cleansed first? Are you not a new wineskin? Enter into His rest and KNOW He will fill you.

Even if we feel we are missing the mark, for is that not the dross rising to the top for Him to take away, leaving only the pure?
:iagree: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Traditionalist websites
Post by: darryl on April 16, 2016, 01:55:24 AM
Quote from: Cristina100 on April 03, 2016, 01:00:49 AM
I feel so frustrated when I visit traditionalist websites.

yup...also when I listen to 'traditionalist' (a misnomer because most of the very early church believed in Universal Restoration) preachers prattling on and on about 'eternal torment in hell'.
Title: Re: Traditionalist websites
Post by: jugghead on April 16, 2016, 01:58:57 AM
Quote from: darryl on April 16, 2016, 01:55:24 AM
Quote from: Cristina100 on April 03, 2016, 01:00:49 AM
I feel so frustrated when I visit traditionalist websites.

yup...also when I listen to 'traditionalist' (a misnomer because most of the very early church believed in Universal Restoration) preachers prattling on and on about 'eternal torment in hell'.

Agree with you both ..... that is why I believe He took me out of that world ..... I am in a world where it exists, but I am not of that world
Title: Re: Traditionalist websites
Post by: GodIsLove on April 16, 2016, 04:24:38 AM
Quote from: SarahR37 on April 15, 2016, 05:53:56 PM
So... I read in here that everyone believe different things. That there is a Hell? And that there's isn't Hell... and that there going to be a 2nd coming and that it already happened in 70AD.... so..... I know my personal experience that I am going to heaven. And that everyone will eventually go to heaven. If they believe or not. And I know the 2nd coming already came. But people still quotes that it haven't?  What is it???? I always want thw truth and nothing but the truth.  Thanks. Love you all!!!

Love you too Sarah!
My own opinion is that we don't really know until it is revealed to us individually.

I think that part of the humbling process of trusting in God is to admit that we don't know unless it is shown to us by Him.

We do a lot of "the bible says..." But so do the other thousands of denominations because translations and interpretations vary so much.

I know this is a bible heavy site and I read the bible myself but I believe in the salvation of all because I prayed after an obsessive journey to find out if hell was real or not and I believe God revealed it to me.

I believe in God and consider myself Christian because I had an unexpected spiritual experience with Jesus.

So in my own personal experience, it wasn't the church or the bible that has guided me, it was God Himself revealing Himself to me. This I believe is the pattern that happens, He chooses when to call us and who can resist his will?

So as far as all the details that are considered theological discussions we are all in different places because He has revealed different things to different people at different times and none of us have it all revealed yet.

We can't rely on the bible or church tradition without the revelation of the Holy Spirit because then it is the carnal mind trying to understand spiritual things. So many different ideas and of course they all can't be right! Without the Holy Spirit the bible is an old book that honestly makes no sense and sounds scary to the carnal mind. Prayer to me is hugely important. Also, I always think that Jesus never said "I will have my friends write a second bible to guide you" ----he said he would send the helper, the Holy Spirit to guide us.

My own thoughts are that the book of Revelations is spiritual in nature and must be interpreted that way, but I admit I don't fully understand it all yet. I have read an interpretation that Jesus's return is individual to each person and this is sort of what I believe. I don't believe in a literal hell or literal fire. God is a consuming fire.

Hope this is helpful. I hope it is okay to everyone else. I am just talking about my own experience, I know others may have had a different journey so far.

No matter what happens, the most important thing to do is to love God, love each other, and trust in His plan.
Title: Re: Traditionalist websites
Post by: darryl on April 16, 2016, 07:52:19 AM
Quote from: jugghead on April 16, 2016, 01:58:57 AM
Quote from: darryl on April 16, 2016, 01:55:24 AM
Quote from: Cristina100 on April 03, 2016, 01:00:49 AM
I feel so frustrated when I visit traditionalist websites.

yup...also when I listen to 'traditionalist' (a misnomer because most of the very early church believed in Universal Restoration) preachers prattling on and on about 'eternal torment in hell'.

Agree with you both ..... that is why I believe He took me out of that world ..... I am in a world where it exists, but I am not of that world

same. :banana: :banana: :banana: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny:
Title: Re: Traditionalist websites
Post by: jugghead on April 16, 2016, 06:20:26 PM
Quote from: GodIsLove on April 16, 2016, 04:24:38 AM

Love you too Sarah!
My own opinion is that we don't really know until it is revealed to us individually.

I think that part of the humbling process of trusting in God is to admit that we don't know unless it is shown to us by Him.

We do a lot of "the bible says..." But so do the other thousands of denominations because translations and interpretations vary so much.

I know this is a bible heavy site and I read the bible myself but I believe in the salvation of all because I prayed after an obsessive journey to find out if hell was real or not and I believe God revealed it to me.

I believe in God and consider myself Christian because I had an unexpected spiritual experience with Jesus.

So in my own personal experience, it wasn't the church or the bible that has guided me, it was God Himself revealing Himself to me. This I believe is the pattern that happens, He chooses when to call us and who can resist his will?

So as far as all the details that are considered theological discussions we are all in different places because He has revealed different things to different people at different times and none of us have it all revealed yet.

We can't rely on the bible or church tradition without the revelation of the Holy Spirit because then it is the carnal mind trying to understand spiritual things. So many different ideas and of course they all can't be right! Without the Holy Spirit the bible is an old book that honestly makes no sense and sounds scary to the carnal mind. Prayer to me is hugely important. Also, I always think that Jesus never said "I will have my friends write a second bible to guide you" ----he said he would send the helper, the Holy Spirit to guide us.

My own thoughts are that the book of Revelations is spiritual in nature and must be interpreted that way, but I admit I don't fully understand it all yet. I have read an interpretation that Jesus's return is individual to each person and this is sort of what I believe. I don't believe in a literal hell or literal fire. God is a consuming fire.

Hope this is helpful. I hope it is okay to everyone else. I am just talking about my own experience, I know others may have had a different journey so far.

No matter what happens, the most important thing to do is to love God, love each other, and trust in His plan.

:iagree: whole heartedly
Title: Re: Traditionalist websites
Post by: Lazarus Short on April 17, 2016, 07:06:19 AM
Quote from: SarahR37 on April 15, 2016, 05:53:56 PM
So... I read in here that everyone believe different things. That there is a Hell? And that there's isn't Hell... and that there going to be a 2nd coming and that it already happened in 70AD.... so..... I know my personal experience that I am going to heaven. And that everyone will eventually go to heaven. If they believe or not. And I know the 2nd coming already came. But people still quotes that it haven't?  What is it???? I always want thw truth and nothing but the truth.  Thanks. Love you all!!!

No, we don't all agree, and that's one of the things that make this site so dynamic.  Not everyone here is a Universalist, or so I understand.  Yes, you are going to Heaven, or at least the Kingdom.  But tell us, how do you know that the second coming already came?  I think it could be so, but I'd like to hear your thinking.
Title: Re: Traditionalist websites
Post by: SarahR37 on April 19, 2016, 04:36:40 PM
What I have read is that the Roman attached the Jews in the 70AD? And that is the 2nd coming,? And that I read in the bible that it will happen in their life time and they will see the temple burn. So. Am I supposed to believe thats true because I keep hearing from everyone that it haven't happen.
Title: Re: Traditionalist websites
Post by: Cristina100 on April 20, 2016, 05:48:07 AM
Quote from: darryl on April 16, 2016, 01:55:24 AM
Quote from: Cristina100 on April 03, 2016, 01:00:49 AM
I feel so frustrated when I visit traditionalist websites.

yup...also when I listen to 'traditionalist' (a misnomer because most of the very early church believed in Universal Restoration) preachers prattling on and on about 'eternal torment in hell'.

Is there undeniable proof that majority of christians in the early church believe in universalism?
Title: Re: Traditionalist websites
Post by: darryl on April 20, 2016, 06:36:23 AM
yup !..the Alexandrian church believed in Universal Reconciliation and most of the early church followed that belief.Gary has provided the proof on this website. Research it on the links listed on front page !.
Title: Re: Traditionalist websites
Post by: Cristina100 on April 22, 2016, 08:46:56 AM
I came across this guy called bobo557 on youtube.He claimed that universalism is a heresy.
Title: Re: Traditionalist websites
Post by: trettep on April 22, 2016, 06:45:18 PM
Quote from: jugghead on April 03, 2016, 01:44:00 AM
You are partaking of the life of Christ, it is no different than when Christ looked upon Jerusalem and said,

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!" (Matthew 23:37)

We look upon other groups and wish for all to be united in love, and it grieves His Spirit in us that the truth has not yet been manifested in all but we rest in faith that it is going to happen.

Another one is (from the NASB)

"I have come to cast fire upon the earth; and how I wish it were already kindled!" (Luke 12:49)

We wish the truth was burning in all

I'm very impressed with that response.  Good blessing put on you.

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Traditionalist websites
Post by: eaglesway on April 22, 2016, 07:07:41 PM
Quote from: Cristina100 on April 22, 2016, 08:46:56 AM
I came across this guy called bobo557 on youtube.He claimed that universalism is a heresy.

Ther are people posting all over the place that UR is a heresy. It is not the prevailing view. That is why we must look to the scriptures for what we believe.

Everyone thinks the belief that are not the same as theirs is heresy, and everything from ones view of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit to how we ought to baptize(or whether we ought to) to and a dozen other doctrinal differences provoke cries of heresy :o)

On this site we regard the scriptures, properly translated, as the final authority- and so we labor on sharing the good news.

In all wisdom and insight 9 He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him 10 with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. Eph 1

19 For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, 20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven. Col 1

And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world. I John 2

This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 1 Tim 2:4
Title: Re: Traditionalist websites
Post by: jugghead on April 22, 2016, 07:49:42 PM
Quote from: trettep on April 22, 2016, 06:45:18 PM
Quote from: jugghead on April 03, 2016, 01:44:00 AM
You are partaking of the life of Christ, it is no different than when Christ looked upon Jerusalem and said,

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!" (Matthew 23:37)

We look upon other groups and wish for all to be united in love, and it grieves His Spirit in us that the truth has not yet been manifested in all but we rest in faith that it is going to happen.

Another one is (from the NASB)

"I have come to cast fire upon the earth; and how I wish it were already kindled!" (Luke 12:49)

We wish the truth was burning in all

I'm very impressed with that response.  Good blessing put on you.

:thumbsup:

"for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap" (Galatians 6:7)

Thank you for your kind response trettep
Title: Re: Traditionalist websites
Post by: marie glen on April 23, 2016, 04:50:03 PM
Quote from: trettep on April 22, 2016, 06:45:18 PM

"I have come to cast fire upon the earth; and how I wish it were already kindled!" (Luke 12:49)

We wish the truth was burning in all


    :idea2: Wow! Amen! Love that..!! Makes infinitely more sense than how it is usually assumed to read!  :cloud9: ..and truth burns away all untrue..

I think the internet is shining a light on the differnt gospel interpretations.. I just hate it when I see a christian in dialog with an unbeliever and they bring out the ages old "hell" card.. or annihilation.. etc.. the God will get you idea.. and then dear one you will burn forever and ever, 3/4s of humanity writhing in agaonizing unbelievable pain for ever and ever.. but of course "God is love" and if you end up there it will be all your fault. ...And in the heat of debate.. sometimes.. that leaves a very sour impression.. (Anyway, so many dialogs are downright ridiculous and the unbeliever knows it full well!! :mshock: )

More and more, I am realizing how this gospel message is in fact a way of "standing in the door and not letting others enter"... Don't we realize too how "honey draws better than.." (How's that saying go? :laughing7: ) "Hell" prevents so many from being able to believe :sigh: (For the time being, of course! :banana: )
Title: Re: Traditionalist websites
Post by: jugghead on April 23, 2016, 09:54:38 PM
Quote from: marie glen on April 23, 2016, 04:50:03 PM
...And in the heat of debate.. sometimes.. that leaves a very sour impression..

Don't forget how this relates to the parable of the wineskin, when the old wineskin bursts (gets angry) during the coarse of the debate ..... the new wine (perishes) is lost to the ground and the old wineskin perishes

The new wine perishing is in relation to "again crucifying Christ"
Title: Re: Traditionalist websites
Post by: rosered on April 23, 2016, 11:05:59 PM
Quote from: jugghead on April 23, 2016, 09:54:38 PM
Quote from: marie glen on April 23, 2016, 04:50:03 PM
...And in the heat of debate.. sometimes.. that leaves a very sour impression..

Don't forget how this relates to the parable of the wineskin, when the old wineskin bursts (gets angry) during the coarse of the debate ..... the new wine (perishes) is lost to the ground and the old wineskin perishes

The new wine perishing is in relation to "again crucifying Christ"

   :HeartThrob:  love that Jugg  Amen !!
Amen     eat my body and drink my blood that you may HAVE LIFE in you ...

  21"No one sews a patch of unshrunk cloth on an old garment;

otherwise the patch pulls away from it, the new from the old, and a worse tear results.


22"No one puts new wine into old wineskins; otherwise the wine will burst the skins,

and the wine is lost and the skins as well; but one puts new wine into fresh wineskins."

  This is how we also bring judgment on ourselves    not discerning the Lords Body  :HeartThrob:

Be patient and kind    , loving all where ever they are at    IN the Body of Christ  , dead/  sleeping  or alive we are all  HIS   
Title: Re: Traditionalist websites
Post by: marie glen on April 24, 2016, 12:17:24 AM
 :Chinscratch: ...how true! The imperfect carnal nature cannot hold the new wine / his Spirit.. the spilling of anger being a symptom and evidence(?) And on the Internet, especially if anonymous, it's easy to yield to the temptation to such.. And even if 'they' don't, the message which includes 'hell' or annihilation, is in itself very threatening and more of confrontational in nature.. By the fruit we can tell the value of something. I've been pondering how the hell doctrine seems, with help from the Internet, getting even more obnoxious and unloving..! Though many Christians get into dialog with people and enthusiastic in trying to convince, as they feel the person they are talking to is in grave danger if they do not change their mind and believe. But the impression that is given, I think, leans most often toward 'obnoxious'..

And the bread and the (New) wine are sustenance for His Spirit in us.. the source of being able to "love all wherever they're at" ..Even the unsaved / not yet saved.. better able to be patient and kind.. And it's more humbling once we realize our election has nothing to do with us! We didn't choose Him, He chose us, and not because we were any 'better' (or worse) than anyone else! It's simply that in His truth proving drama of letting this all run its natural course, there has to be more than one character, so to speak.. Like a play with two characters, the elect / sealed on their heart, and the not elect during this lifetime..

Therefor, except for the grace of God, there go I.. But with the hell gospel, the impression ( sometimes attitude?) can be 'I'm good, you're bad' ..I'm superior, you're inferior.. (bad fruit!)
Title: Re: Traditionalist websites
Post by: jugghead on April 24, 2016, 02:37:10 AM
Amen Rose and Marie ...... you can't put the new wine of UR into an old wineskin of ET
Title: Re: Traditionalist websites
Post by: jugghead on April 24, 2016, 02:53:55 AM
Had to add a few more things ..... it reminded me of a line from the movie "Timecop", the same matter cannot occupy the same space at the same time

The old has to be taken out and replaced with the new ..... a heart that the carnal mind has filled with ET has to die before it can be replaced with the new heart of flesh, a living heart (the heart of stone is taken out) ..... replaced with the new wineskin where the new wine (New Covenant of Grace, which is reconciliation) is put in place of the old wine (Old Covenant of the law which condemns)

The mind of Christ fills the new heart with reconciliation by putting to death condemnation through the law

But just like Christ, they have to freely give their life, exchange life for life, nobody can take it from them because they already believe they have it, therefore we forgive them, for they know not what they do.

If they do not want to hear what we have to say, we do as Christ told His disciples, shake the dust off our feet (the dust they have eaten) and move on to the next.

Amen?

Title: Re: Traditionalist websites
Post by: rosered on April 24, 2016, 05:16:19 AM
Quote from: jugghead on April 24, 2016, 02:53:55 AM
Had to add a few more things ..... it reminded me of a line from the movie "Timecop", the same matter cannot occupy the same space at the same time

The old has to be taken out and replaced with the new ..... a heart that the carnal mind has filled with ET has to die before it can be replaced with the new heart of flesh, a living heart (the heart of stone is taken out) ..... replaced with the new wineskin where the new wine (New Covenant of Grace, which is reconciliation) is put in place of the old wine (Old Covenant of the law which condemns)

The mind of Christ fills the new heart with reconciliation by putting to death condemnation through the law

But just like Christ, they have to freely give their life, exchange life for life, nobody can take it from them because they already believe they have it, therefore we forgive them, for they know not what they do.

If they do not want to hear what we have to say, we do as Christ told His disciples, shake the dust off our feet (the dust they have eaten) and move on to the next.

Amen?
Amen
   and the scattering of the flesh is  the dust as  the serpents food !


And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this,

thou art cursed above all beasts and above every animal of the field;

upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life;


New Heavens and Earth
...24"It will also come to pass that before they call,

I will answer; and while they are still speaking,

I will hear.


25"The wolf and the lamb will graze together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox;

and dust will be the serpent's food.

They will do no evil or harm in all My holy mountain," says the LORD.
Title: Re: Traditionalist websites
Post by: aaronclark1989 on May 31, 2016, 03:33:39 PM
One of the things that is really wired about not only fundamental sites but also videos on Youtube put together by fundies (beside the crap they believe and say and do) is just how poor the quality is at times. I mean just look at websites like Jesus Is Savior which looks like it is from the mid ninties or even videos from people like Josh Feuerstein who records his videos off his cell phone many times while in portrait mode. Yet people like Gary Amirault or Martin Zender whose websites and videos are well produced and put together like actually effort was done.
Title: Re: Traditionalist websites
Post by: darryl on June 01, 2016, 06:56:33 AM
Quote from: aaronclark1989 on May 31, 2016, 03:33:39 PM
One of the things that is really wired about not only fundamental sites but also videos on Youtube put together by fundies (beside the crap they believe and say and do) is just how poor the quality is at times. I mean just look at websites like Jesus Is Savior which looks like it is from the mid ninties or even videos from people like Josh Feuerstein who records his videos off his cell phone many times while in portrait mode. Yet people like Gary Amirault or Martin Zender whose websites and videos are well produced and put together like actually effort was done.

yup !...speaks volumes