I just watched a video by a man who is involved in humanitarian aid to 350.000 Christians in Iraq and Syria, many of whose numbers have been butchered. Their children are being beheaded, the women. raped, the men, hung or crucified. This man's report was grim and heart breaking.
It was in my heart to pray for these poor souls. I don't want to be a messenger of gloom and doom, but there may come a time in the future when this might be us.
I ask for your prayers and anything you could do, please do. Also, I ask your prayers for Israel. The media have been manipulating the emotions of the masses right now to paint Israel in a very dark light.
Blessings
Shalom :Peace2:
Jock.
Very, very sad situation. Thy kingdom come.
I am reading a book titled "They must be stopped" by Brigitte Gabriel. She describes the atrocities carried out by radical Islam around the world. She gives dire warning of what is coming (and is now spreading) to the western world. A must read for anyone who wants to know the root causes of this horror of radical Islam.
:sigh:
It 's been a major concern of mine,too.Heartsick over it......prophesy being fulfilled
Rev 6;9-11
The IS (Islamic State) is not what you may think.
http://eventhorizonchronicle.blogspot.com/2014/08/bilderberg-group-unleashes-demons-on.html
12 O our God, wilt thou not judge them? for we have no might against this great company that cometh against us; neither know we what to do: but our eyes are upon thee.
13 And all Judah stood before the Lord, with their little ones, their wives, and their children.
14 Then upon Jahaziel the son of Zechariah, the son of Benaiah, the son of Jeiel, the son of Mattaniah, a Levite of the sons of Asaph, came the Spirit of the Lord in the midst of the congregation;
15 And he said, Hearken ye, all Judah, and ye inhabitants of Jerusalem, and thou king Jehoshaphat, Thus saith the Lord unto you, Be not afraid nor dismayed by reason of this great multitude; for the battle is not yours, but God's.
16 To morrow go ye down against them: behold, they come up by the cliff of Ziz; and ye shall find them at the end of the brook, before the wilderness of Jeruel.
17 Ye shall not need to fight in this battle: set yourselves, stand ye still, and see the salvation of the Lord with you, O Judah and Jerusalem: fear not, nor be dismayed; to morrow go out against them: for the Lord will be with you.....................................
20 And they rose early in the morning, and went forth into the wilderness of Tekoa: and as they went forth, Jehoshaphat stood and said, Hear me, O Judah, and ye inhabitants of Jerusalem; Believe in the Lord your God, so shall ye be established; believe his prophets, so shall ye prosper.
21 And when he had consulted with the people, he appointed singers unto the Lord, and that should praise the beauty of holiness, as they went out before the army, and to say, Praise the Lord; for his mercy endureth for ever.
22 And when they began to sing and to praise, the Lord set ambushments against the children of Ammon, Moab, and mount Seir, which were come against Judah; and they were smitten.
23 For the children of Ammon and Moab stood up against the inhabitants of mount Seir, utterly to slay and destroy them: and when they had made an end of the inhabitants of Seir, every one helped to destroy another.
Eaglesway
Awesome portion of scripture!
Lazarus, interesting link.
Here's another for you, A conversation between Walid Shoebat and Michael Savage.
Shalom
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9uFfrgZstY
very informative video,Jock
One must wonder when one speaks of what one knows[or wants to know] about the subject of "The rise of Isis" does one watch certain news media over another news media? Does one seek and search information from a pro or con on the subject of "The rise of Isis" as to how they may want or feel from where one listens or reads? I just find on the particular subject of this and the Israel-Gaza conflict that one who agrees/disagrees "IN MY OPINION" should be posted along with all the internet sources and youtube www. sites. At least that's my opinion. :dsunny:
HE IS RISEN! :HeartThrob:
I love listening to Walid Shoebat, so I will be going to the link..
Rev 20:4(b) "...those who have been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus" = the vulture (imo, black clad) which, I believe, will be harnessed by the dove.. world peace movement,attempt w/o God, the world beast/body of rev 13:1
Quote from: Jock on August 19, 2014, 02:36:01 PM
Eaglesway
Awesome portion of scripture!
Lazarus, interesting link.
Here's another for you, A conversation between Walid Shoebat and Michael Savage.
Shalom
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9uFfrgZstY
This https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9uFfrgZstY of course was VERY interesting and poses some very interesting questions..! it's my belief ultimately radical jihad will infiltrate, take over and use the un.. and yes, so many, including so very many Christians, just haven't a clue..
Yes Marie
Western Christians are pretty much brain dead when it comes to a very real threat that is threatening our shores. This time that we have right now (IMO) is absolutely critical. Now the politicians are running to make deals with Iran! God only knows what will come of that!?
Shalom :Peace2:
Jock
PS. This could drive the church underground and eradicate things like denominations
This group could easily be the army of the Antichrist spoken of in the Bible as the abomination that causes desolation. This army overruns Jerusalem in the Biblical description, and drives the Jews out of Israel.
Jesus says when you see them surrounding Jerusalem, those in Judea should flee to the mountains. OT tells us two thirds of the Jews in Israel will be killed. A remnant will be rescued and taken to a safe place--Revelation 12.
when I saw on news the Yezedees ran for the mountains from Isis, I wondered,too.
Quote from: Molly on August 21, 2014, 09:58:47 PM
This group could easily be the army of the Antichrist spoken of in the Bible as the abomination that causes desolation. This army overruns Jerusalem in the Biblical description, and drives the Jews out of Israel.
Very unlikely because prophesy states, Israel will totally pulverize the enemies of the first war. 2nd seal Edomite (=Esau descendants) war.
Quote from: sheila on August 21, 2014, 11:31:26 PMwhen I saw on news the Yezedees ran for the mountains from Isis, I wondered,too.
Never confuse full scale war with a few people running. The Revelation wars are all full scale wars between armies. Not a bunch of civilians running from a bunch of idiots. Ok, what we see now could eventually lead to a war but isn't right now.
It always starts small.
:2c:
I see it as more of a 'sign in the earth' there are signs in the earth and signs in the
heavens. the only sign given to the wicked is Jonah in the belly of the fish.
Quote from: WhiteWings on August 22, 2014, 02:54:01 AM
Quote from: Molly on August 21, 2014, 09:58:47 PM
This group could easily be the army of the Antichrist spoken of in the Bible as the abomination that causes desolation. This army overruns Jerusalem in the Biblical description, and drives the Jews out of Israel.
Very unlikely because prophesy states, Israel will totally pulverize the enemies of the first war. 2nd seal Edomite (=Esau descendants) war.
What scripture are you looking at? Are you thinking Psalm 83?
Every time I see Zion and Jerusalem in Revelation, I have it in the back of my head who Paul said was the "Israel of God."
Quote from: Seth on August 22, 2014, 06:55:30 AM
Every time I see Zion and Jerusalem in Revelation, I have it in the back of my head who Paul said was the "Israel of God."
Who? He doesn't really say who they are. He adds them to the group he is talking to as if the group he is talking to is a subset of the Israel of God. The group he is talking to is the church.
14 But far be it from me to boast, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world hath been crucified unto me, and I unto the world. 15 For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision,
but a new creation. 16 And as many as shall walk by this rule, peace be upon them, and mercy,
and upon the Israel of God.
--Gal 6
Who will be the elect of the new creation? In the OT, God promised he would make a new covenant with two groups, both of whom together comprise the twelve tribes of Israel.
"Behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them," declares the LORD. --Jeremiah 31
The New Covenant is the New Testament is the New Will. The elect are the named beneficiaries under that will, which are the house of Israel and the house of Judah. Paul tells us in Romans 11 that the house of Judah [the "Jews"] are blinded until the fullness of the Gentiles [house of Israel, Ephraim] be come in. Then the deliverer will come [Jesus] for the house of Judah and their sins will be remembered no more. He explains why this must be--God has made a promise to them and God does not break his promises.
All Israel Shall Be Saved
...27"THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM, WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS." 28From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God's choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers;
29for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.--Romans 11
This story is about the faithfulness of God to a group of people he has chosen way back when, a group of ordinary people who do not deserve the grace and mercy he will shower on them through the ages, that the whole world, and they themselves, might come to understand His graciousness and mercy, His faithfulness and love.
IMO
Who is ISIS. ISIS originally called themselves ISIL and some still call them that [such as the one in the wh].
ISIL stands for Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant.
What is the Levant?
The Levant (/ləˈvænt/), also known as the Eastern Mediterranean, is a geographic and cultural region consisting of the "eastern Mediterranean littoral between Anatolia and Egypt".[2] The Levant today consists of the island of Cyprus, Israel, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Palestine, and part of southern Turkey (the former Aleppo Vilayet).
Precise definitions have varied over time, and the term originally had a broader and less well-defined usage.[3] The Levant has been described as the "crossroads of western Asia, the eastern Mediterranean and northeast Africa",[4] and the "northwest of the Arabian plate".[5]
--Wikipedia
A few things to note here. The Levant could include most if not all of the countries that participated in Arab Spring a year or so ago. These are the countries which we discussed as moving towards a possible Caliphate at that time. The Levant includes Israel, showing the intentions of those who chose the name. The Levant roughly covers the Ottoman Empire, which was disbanded after WWI, and which many think is the final beast of Revelation 17 [see Walid Shoebat].
11 The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition.
--Rev 17
The Levant includes many of the countries of Psalm 83 which form a confederacy against Israel. These countries are Israel's closest neighbors, many bordering on her.
Finally, those who believe Israel will win a Psalm 83 war, think that because these countries are not named in Ezekiel 38 and 39. They believe they are not named because Israel has conquered them in the war. However, it is worth noting that ISIS has crossed the boundaries of Iraq and Syria now and are not using the names of those countries in reference to themselves. They are the Islamic State, one country, one Caliphate. It's possible that if they crossed more boundaries, the same thing would happen, and the names of these countries could cease to exist.
Finally, the Levant covers roughly the ancient Babylonian Empire, the head of gold of the horrible image in Daniel 2. We see talk of Babylon in the book of Revelation as well.
I was reading some passages from Joel Richardson as I was noticing the Isis carry black flags or banners.
http://answering-islam.org/Authors/JR/Future/ch04_the_mahdi.htm
I'll paste it here.
The Army Of Black Flags
The Mahdi's ascendancy to power is said to be preceded by an army from the east who will be carrying black flags or banners of war. Sheikh Kabbani states:
Hadith indicate that black flags coming from the area of Khorasan will signify the appearance of the Mahdi is nigh. Khorasan is in todays Iran, and some scholars have said that this hadith means when the black flags appear from Central Asia, i.e. in the direction of Khorasan, then the appearance of the Mahdi is imminent. 17
Another tradition states that:
The Messenger of Allah said: The black banners will come from the East and their hearts will be as firm as iron. Whoever hears of them should join them and give allegiance, even if it means crawling across snow. 18
In Islam there are two flags. One is white and one is black. Written across both flags in Arabic are the words, "There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his Messenger". The white flag is called Al-Liwaa and serves as the sign for the leader of the Muslim army and is the flag of the Islamic State. The black flag is called Ar-Raya and is used by the Muslim army. It is also called the flag of jihad, and is carried into battle. One flag is governmental and the other is a military flag. 19 When Muhammad returned to his home city of Mecca after being exiled for eight years, he returned as a conqueror. With him were ten thousand Muslim soldiers. They carried with them black flags. On the flags was one word written in Arabic: punishment. 20
I was once talking to a group of young Muslim men and asking them some questions. I asked them if the obvious superior militaries of America and Israel compared to the militaries of any Islamic nations were a source of difficulty for many Muslims. One of these men then became very angry at my question and snapped out, "You Americans and Zionists better get ready, because the black flags are coming!" At the time, I had no idea what he was talking about. Later I learned the meaning"
Joel Richardson.
Molly
Thanks for your description of the Levant, very interesting. I notice you mention Turkey in it. I think that we are going to see a lot more from Turkey, especially since Erdogan won the presidential race. Time will tell.
Shalom :Peace2:
Jock
The first time I saw or heard of those black flags, they were associated with the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan. At the time, I thought they were "just" flags.
Here is what I believe the Book of Revelation is about:
Rev 19:10
At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, "Don't do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers and sisters who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For it is the Spirit of prophecy who bears testimony to Jesus."
We all pretty much agree that the Book of Revelation is the revealing of Jesus Christ. So, when I see Zion in Revelation, I tend toward this:
Hosea 11:1
The LORD continues,"When Israel was a young nation, I loved them. I chose to bring my son out of Egypt.
Exodus 4:22-23
Then (Moses) say to Pharaoh, 'This is what the LORD says: Israel is my firstborn son, and I told you, "Let my son go, so he may worship me." But you refused to let him go; so I will kill your firstborn son.'"
Now, Matthew applies this directly to Jesus Christ
Matthew 2:13-15
An angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream. "Get up," he said, "take (Jesus) and his mother and escape to Egypt. Stay there until I tell you, for Herod is going to search for the child to kill him." So he got up, took the child and his mother during the night and left for Egypt, They stayed there until King Herod died. So the words the Lord had spoken through the prophet came true. He had said, "I chose to bring my son out of Egypt."
When I see Zion in "the Revelation of Jesus Christ" I see Jesus Christ himself. When you quote from the Old Testament, I believe you have to remember that the mysteries of the OT were revealed in the New Testament. I believe it is wrong to quote the OT out of context of the NT because the writers of the NT were given a revelation of what the mysterious writings were actually saying.
So, when when Paul says:
Galatians 3:26-29
You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
And I see this three chapters later:
Galatians 6
14But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. 15For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. 16And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
I think it's pretty clear who Paul believed was a Jew, the seed of Abraham, New Jerusalem and the "Israel of God." Both Israel and the house of Judah are derived from ONE SEED, and that is Abraham. Abraham only had one son according to God (Genesis 22:2). That's not because Ishmael did not exist, but because God did not COUNT him for the seed. So, there is only ONE SEED by which both Israel and the house of Judah is derived, all else is not counted for the seed.
Jesus Christ is that ONE firstfruit seed of Israel and of Abraham. So when all nations and tongues come together with faith in Christ, that represented by the unification of the tribes in Christ. In other words, there is no Judah or Israel outside of Christ.
Anyone who is in the seed of Abraham (Jesus) adopts his position as being Israel itself, anyone who does not has no citizenship in Israel, other than that which is of the flesh, which God does not count. That is the real question, not what is true according to the Spirit, or according to the flesh. There is no dualism.
It's about what God counts to be, and what he counts not to be, regardless of the flesh. If God points to a flock of birds and says "That's Israel," then by golly, that is Israel, regardless of what CNN says. Christ is how God defines Israel today, and all those who in Him, which is probably why Revelation says:
Revelation 11
7And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. 8And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified
You might say that our Lord was crucified just outside the gates of Jerusalem in Israel, and on a base and earthy level you could say that. But I say he was crucified in Sodom and Egypt. Why? Because those who reject Christ are not counted for the seed of Abraham. They are in another nation. There is only ONE son of Abraham, who is Isaac. Ishmael is not counted for the seed. The flesh is not counted for identification with Israel which is why Paul referred to them as "his brothers according to the flesh" and "Israel according to the flesh." But Jesus says that the flesh profits nothing, and that includes identification as Israel of God, or the seed of Abraham. Christ said his brothers are those who do the will of his Father, not BOTH those who do the will of his father AND those who do not.
Christ IS Israel, and there is no other Israel.
Yes, all Israel according to the flesh shall be saved, by leaving their lot in Egypt and Sodom and entering into the Israel of God.
19say to them, 'Thus says the Lord GOD,
"Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph,
which is in the hand of Ephraim,
and the tribes of Israel, his companions;
and I will put them with it, with the stick of Judah,
and make them one stick, and they will be one in My hand."'
--Ezekiel 37
11 And the children of Judah and the children of Israel shall be gathered together,
and they shall appoint for themselves one head.
And they shall go up from the land,
for great shall be the day of Jezreel.
--Hosea 1
Walid Shoebat: Mystery Babylon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GGWbxP2jTw
Quote from: Molly on August 23, 2014, 08:50:20 AM
19say to them, 'Thus says the Lord GOD,
"Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph,
which is in the hand of Ephraim,
and the tribes of Israel, his companions;
and I will put them with it, with the stick of Judah,
and make them one stick, and they will be one in My hand."'
--Ezekiel 37
11 And the children of Judah and the children of Israel shall be gathered together,
and they shall appoint for themselves one head.
And they shall go up from the land,
for great shall be the day of Jezreel.
--Hosea 1
The church us where that unification occurs. God gathers together all things in Christ the true seed of Abraham.
Eph 1:10
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him
Revelation is the testimony of Christ. Israel is God's first born Son. Zion is in Christ.
Isaaih 8;18 Here am I and the children the Lord has given me.We are signs and
symbols in Israel from the Lord Alighty,who dwells on Zion.
Isaaih ch 7 the SIGN OF IMMANUEL
....this child shall be a sign[manchild] for the rise and fall of many in Israel.
.....there are 'signsin the earth...Israel become nation/figtree budding] and signs
in the heaven= Jerusalem above/Jerusalem below
now the Jerusalem that is now..SIGNifies Hagar and her children in bondage......[earth
sign] Rev 12 SIGN in the HEAVENS= MANCHILD?SPIRITUAL ISRAEL/JERUSALEM
ABOVE BIRTHING FREE SONS......
there shall be signs in the heaven and signs in the earth...Rev 12...and they loost their place in heaven and the great dragon was hurled down..
...woe to those dwelling
in the earth..for the dragon has come down to you,knowing his time is short.....
you have those below and those above..........
Quote from: Seth on August 23, 2014, 05:25:20 PM
Quote from: Molly on August 23, 2014, 08:50:20 AM
19say to them, 'Thus says the Lord GOD,
"Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph,
which is in the hand of Ephraim,
and the tribes of Israel, his companions;
and I will put them with it, with the stick of Judah,
and make them one stick, and they will be one in My hand."'
--Ezekiel 37
11 And the children of Judah and the children of Israel shall be gathered together,
and they shall appoint for themselves one head.
And they shall go up from the land,
for great shall be the day of Jezreel.
--Hosea 1
The church us where that unification occurs. God gathers together all things in Christ the true seed of Abraham.
Eph 1:10
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him
Revelation is the testimony of Christ. Israel is God's first born Son. Zion is in Christ.
Ephraim is His firstborn son. Who is Ephraim? Ephraim is the Northern Kingdom, the house of Israel, which was divorced by God and sent away as "not a people." Ephraim stands in for Joseph. Ephraim is what we call the church in this Age. Ephraim is the bride of Christ--lost and now found, divorced and now betrothed. He does not marry Judah because he never divorced the house of Judah. The house of Judah is still married to Him, but put away for a time, until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. Judah holds the scepter until Shiloh comes. Ephraim [Joseph] gets all the rest of the birthright, including the name Israel. Joseph has the double portion of Ephraim and Manasseh. It is therefore reasonable to call the church of Christ Israel in this Age. The house of Judah is our brother and always will be. I stress this because I believe the last 3.5 years of the great Tribulation will be the time of Jacob's trouble, and to those who believe in such things we can see it coming.
IMO
8"Behold, I am bringing them from the north country, And I will gather them from the remote parts of the earth, Among them the blind and the lame, The woman with child and she who is in labor with child, together; A great company, they will return here. 9"With weeping they will come, And by supplication I will lead them; I will make them walk by streams of waters, On a straight path in which they will not stumble; For I am a father to Israel,
And Ephraim is My firstborn." 10Hear the word of the LORD, O nations, And declare in the coastlands afar off, And say,
"He who scattered Israel will gather him And keep him as a shepherd keeps his flock,--Jeremiah 31
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIjPySiAcfg
Quote from: Molly on August 24, 2014, 02:53:57 AM
Ephraim is His firstborn son. Who is Ephraim? Ephraim is the Northern Kingdom, the house of Israel, which was divorced by God and sent away as "not a people." Ephraim stands in for Joseph. Ephraim is what we call the church in this Age. Ephraim is the bride of Christ--lost and now found, divorced and now betrothed. He does not marry Judah because he never divorced the house of Judah. The house of Judah is still married to Him, but put away for a time, until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. Judah holds the scepter until Shiloh comes.
In order to be of the house of Judah, one must be descended through Isaac (not Ishmael) and Jacob (not Esau).
Galatians 4
21 Tell me, you who want to be under law, do you not listen to the law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had
two sons, one by the bondwoman and one by the free woman. 23 But the son by the bondwoman was born
according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman
through the promise. 24 This is allegorically speaking, for these women are
two covenants: one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar. 25 Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother. 27 For it is written,
"Rejoice, barren woman who does not bear;
Break forth and shout, you who are not in labor;
For more numerous are the children of the desolate
Than of the one who has a husband."
28 And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29 But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also. 30 But what does the Scripture say?
"Cast out the bondwoman AND HER SON" For the son of the bondwoman
shall NOT be an heir with the son of the free woman."
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, but of the free woman.
This is not simply talking about a single tribe among the "children of the flesh." It's talking about ANYONE who are not "children of the freewoman" particularly those who are under the old covenant. NOBODY who isn't born of the Spirit is either an heir with the freewoman's children, OR children of Isaac. Only those who are born of the Spirit are Isaac's seed.
If you aren't children of the freewoman (Isaac) then you are not of the tribe of Judah, neither any tribe of Israel.
See the big picture:
O "House of Israel and House of Judah...YHVH called your name, 'A green olive tree, beautiful
in fruit and form'" (Jeremiah 11:10,16). And YHVH says, "Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph,
which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel, his companions; and I will put them
with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick...in My hand" (Ezekiel 37:19). "In those days
the house of Judah will walk with the house of Israel, and they will come together...to the land
I gave their fathers as an inheritance" (Jeremiah 3:18). "It will come about that just as you were
a curse among the nations, O house of Judah and house of Israel, so I will save you that you may
become a blessing. Do not fear; let your hands be strong" (Zechariah 8:13). "Then the jealousy
of Ephraim will depart, and those who harass Judah will be cut off; Ephraim will not be jealous
of Judah, and Judah will not harass Ephraim. They will swoop down on the slopes of the
Philistines on the west; and YHVH will utterly destroy the tongue of the Sea of Egypt; and He will
wave His hand over the River with His scorching wind; and He will strike it into seven streams
and make men walk over dry-shod" (Isaiah 11:13-15). "'In those days and at that time,' declares
YHVH, 'the sons of Israel will come, both they and the sons of Judah as well; they will go along
weeping as they go, and it will be YHVH their God they will seek. They will ask for the way to Zion,
turning their faces in its direction; they will come that they may join themselves to YHVH in an
everlasting covenant that will not be forgotten" (Jeremiah 50:4-5). "'Behold, days are coming,'
declares YHVH, 'when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of
Judah, not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand
to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband
to them... But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days...I
will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they
shall be My people. They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother,
saying, "Know YHVH," for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of
them...for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more" (Jeremiah 31:31-34).
"Therefore through this Jacob's iniquity will be forgiven; and this will be the full price of the
pardoning of his sin: when he makes all the altar stones like pulverized chalk stones; when
Asherim and incense altars will not stand" (Isaiah 27:9). "Return to the stronghold, O prisoners
who have the hope; this very day I am declaring that I will restore double to you. For I will bend
Judah as My bow, I will fill the bow with Ephraim....and I will make you like a warrior's sword.
Then YHVH will appear over them, and His arrow will go forth like lightning; and the Lord YHVH
will blow the trumpet, and will march in the storm winds of the south" (Zechariah 9:12-14).
Two witnesses before all the world--The house of Ephraim [Israel]:Grace and the house of Judah:Law.
Together, under the New Covenant, they are the Israel of God. my opinion
The big picture is through Christ
"In those days the house of Judah will walk with the house of Israel, and they will come together...to the land
I gave their fathers as an inheritance" (Jeremiah 3:18).
Hebrews 4
3For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 5And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. 6Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. 9There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
The promised land is God's rest. It was always the promise of the Holy Spirit. That is when "the children of the flesh" will be unified with "the children of the Promise." For all Israel shall be saved. When they are, they shall abandon their citizenship in "Sodom and Egypt" and become one with the true Israel who is Jesus.
Until then, as Paul said, the "son of the bondwoman" shall have NO inheritance with the "son of freewoman." Nobody is of the tribe of Judah unless he is a seed of Isaac.
The house of Judah is not the Law.
Romans 2
28 For he is NOT a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he IS a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Two houses with two destinies but both will be brought together under Messiah.
When Paul is talking to us, which he most often is, he talks of our destiny and our inheritance as house of Ephraim, just like you describe. Through us, God is raising up a nation of priests, the Melchizedek priesthood. We didn't come out of nowhere, we are the holy Gentiles, spoken of in Exodus 19:
5'Now then, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be My own possession among all the peoples, for all the earth is Mine; 6and you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.' These are the words that you shall speak to the sons of Israel."
'Holy nation' translates in the Hebrew to qadosh goy=sacred gentiles. Why is he calling them 'gentiles' at Mt. Sinai? Couldn't he have chosen another word? This is the Old Covenant which they will break, but God is looking forward into the future when Jesus will implement the New Covenant himself which is therefore unconditional.
When Paul talks about the house of Judah, it is a different story. They are being set aside until the end of the Age when the [holy] Gentiles are all brought in--the fulfillment of the Gentiles. God knows who we are; we were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world. Then Messiah will return to save the house of Judah out of the great Tribulation under the New Covenant. Again, Jesus does all the work.
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
"The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.
28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.
--Romans 11
So what is Paul talking about here? Isn't he talking about the house of Judah? And, doesn't he say that when the fullness of the Gentiles is complete, the Messiah will come out of Zion [in heaven in this case] to complete the New Covenant with the house of Judah? For the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable.
I am a very literal reader of the Bible, so to me it is very clear if you read it literally. But, this is about the place I give up, although it makes complete sense to me, if I cannot communicate it to others, unless there is a question I could answer.
The verse you quoted provides the very meaning of what Paul means about "the election." It's not that they are elected to be considered the seed of Abraham, but this:
Romans 11
28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you
they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.
They are elected to be saved, not abandoned.
But there is clearly a difference between that and "children of the flesh" vs "children of the promise." The way Paul lays it out in Galations is pretty clear to me. ALL the tribes of Israel, including Judah are descended from ISAAC. But there is only one seed of Isaac and they are born of the Spirit.
The logical outcome of that truth is that BOTH Israel AND the house of Judah are the church, those who are born of the promise.
QuoteI am a very literal reader of the Bible, so to me it is very clear if you read it literally.
I actually don't think the Apostles were very literal. What I don't see in the New Testament especially in
Galatians 4 is any mention that anyone under the OLD covenant is carried over into the sonship of Isaac without receiving the promise, without faith in Christ. It's not possible. He is NOT a Jew who is one outwardly according to the flesh, but inwardly according to the Spirit.
That's not literalism to me.
Paul says literally that the sons of the bondwoman will not receive an inheritance with the sons of the freewoman. This does not mean(imo) they will not receive an inheritance. They are however excluded from the inheritance of the sons of the freewoman, which is sonship in Christ, inheriting "all things" as it is written-
Young's Literal Translation
Rev 21:7 he who is overcoming shall inherit all things, and I will be to him -- a God, and he shall be to me -- the son,
or as James puts it...
Jas 1:12(NAS) Blessed is a man who perseveres under trial; for once he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.
God will save all of Israel. I speak of the nation of Israel, not of buildings of mortar.
Romans 11:25-27
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved as it is written: "The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; 27 For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins."
It's true all Israel shall be saved. There's no doubt as to whether God has abandoned Israel according to the flesh. He hasn't. At the same time, God retains full rights to define who is a Jew and who is not, as he sees fit.
Quote from: Jock on August 24, 2014, 01:43:38 PM
God will save all of Israel. I speak of the nation of Israel, not of buildings of mortar.
Romans 11:25-27
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved as it is written: "The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; 27 For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins."
Yes, the prophecy will be literally fulfilled at the second coming of the Messiah.
8 In that day the Lord will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; the one who is feeble among them in that day shall be like David, and the house of David shall be like God, like the Angel of the Lord before them. 9 It shall be in that day that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
10 "And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.
--Zechariah 12
In fact, the Messiah will return when the house of Judah comes to the end of themselves and calls for His return at the end of the great Tribulation. Jesus himself prophesied this to them.
37"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. 38"Behold, your house is being left to you desolate! 39"For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, 'BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD!
--Mat 23
imo
Quote from: Seth on August 24, 2014, 06:50:24 PM
It's true all Israel shall be saved. There's no doubt as to whether God has abandoned Israel according to the flesh. He hasn't. At the same time, God retains full rights to define who is a Jew and who is not, as he sees fit.
When Paul says all Israel will be saved, IMO he is speaking of all Israel gathered into Christ. Reconciled to God. Redeemed from the slave/chains of Gomer and betrothed in faithfulness again to Hosea(He saves/Salvation).
Quote from: eaglesway on August 25, 2014, 12:24:17 AM
Quote from: Seth on August 24, 2014, 06:50:24 PM
It's true all Israel shall be saved. There's no doubt as to whether God has abandoned Israel according to the flesh. He hasn't. At the same time, God retains full rights to define who is a Jew and who is not, as he sees fit.
When Paul says all Israel will be saved, IMO he is speaking of all Israel gathered into Christ. Reconciled to God. Redeemed from the slave/chains of Gomer and betrothed in faithfulness again to Hosea(He saves/Salvation).
Yes, he is talking about Israel according to the flesh being conjoined to Israel which is Christ. I agree. :thumbsup:
:thumbsup: Beauty and Bands...union....
Eaglesway
Beautifully put!
Shalom :Peace2:
Jock.
Quote from: eaglesway on August 25, 2014, 12:24:17 AM
When Paul says all Israel will be saved, IMO he is speaking of all Israel gathered into Christ. Reconciled to God. Redeemed from the slave/chains of Gomer and betrothed in faithfulness again to Hosea(He saves/Salvation).
I wish more people realized that the Bible is a Love Story.
Quote from: Lazarus Short on August 25, 2014, 06:34:28 PM
Quote from: eaglesway on August 25, 2014, 12:24:17 AM
When Paul says all Israel will be saved, IMO he is speaking of all Israel gathered into Christ. Reconciled to God. Redeemed from the slave/chains of Gomer and betrothed in faithfulness again to Hosea(He saves/Salvation).
I wish more people realized that the Bible is a Love Story.
Exactly!
1"At that time, declares the Lord, I will be the God of all the clans of Israel, and they shall be my people."
2Thus says the Lord:
"The people who survived the sword
found grace in the wilderness;
when Israel sought for rest,
3 the Lord appeared to him from far away.
I have loved you with an everlasting love;
therefore I have continued my faithfulness to you.
--Jeremiah 31
Quote from: Lazarus Short on August 25, 2014, 06:34:28 PM
Quote from: eaglesway on August 25, 2014, 12:24:17 AM
When Paul says all Israel will be saved, IMO he is speaking of all Israel gathered into Christ. Reconciled to God. Redeemed from the slave/chains of Gomer and betrothed in faithfulness again to Hosea(He saves/Salvation).
I wish more people realized that the Bible is a Love Story.
I don't deny that the Bible describes the love of God. But I take it for a Gospel story. And the Gospel has a process. "Each to his order." 1 Cor 15
It is THE gospel story :o) The love of God displayed in the cross of Christ!
:iagree: