The Economy

[Paul Hazelwood]

I'm personally looking at more and more natural/alternative medicinals, about half-way there

I'm not against any solution but the problem is that despite us all being human we are all very different in how we react. Not all conditions will be fixed just because they eat right and the people driving this idea promote it more out of fighting the machine and because it worked for them rather than taking things as a whole into consideration.

People scoff about medicine yet,  not only are we living longer, but so are our pets.

This also does not mean the solution to every problem is a pill, but no one can deny that sometimes it is.  Sometimes it is losing weight, sometimes it is drinking more water.   Sometimes it is a combination of them all.

But I see a problem on both sides, I am saddened by thr perceived lack of giving a crap about actually changing anything for the good  from those who are railing against the current machine (NOT ALL) and an apathy on the other side to just throw it to the government.

[Paul Hazelwood]

I really am trying to help Paul.  Do you think it might be possible that there are some less expensive natural alternatives that could help your wife?  I think the insurance situation you describe really stinks.

Well, I do not know, it is heart issues that make my wifes heart race, she is not excessively overweight, we spend more money on healthy foods rather than just eating cheap which is almost always less healthy according to current knowledge. She may not excersize as much as said, but she is active and doesn't sit around all the time.   Gets plenty of rest and contrary to some who say it is stress my wife is actually at a point where there is little to be stressed about and it gets worse.

But who's gonna take a look at my wife and offer those alternatives for either free or what we can afford in order to gain that knowledge?

[jabcat]

I hear you.  I know "naturopaths" and such exist, I tend to rely on information-gathering which I know, is tricky regarding reliability.  (No judgments, but a question - anyone ever check out Lorraine Day [ http://www.drday.com/ ] and what do you think about her?)

I don't have all the answers, but I'm thinking probably together, as a group that will begin to speak up, share with each other, try to help, that with God's help, those answers do exist.  A piece here and a piece there.  Maybe something good is beginning to happen.  I agree, the government ABSOLUTELY doesn't have all the answers, and that's what's frustrating me, the more and more they seem to insist they do - "just trust us", said the fox to the chicken.

More ideas guys?  And always, let's pray for each other  :thumbsup:.

[Paul Hazelwood]

I hear you.  I know "naturopaths" and such exist, I tend to rely on information-gathering which I know, is tricky regarding reliability.  No judgments, but a question - anyone ever check out Lorraine Day [ http://www.drday.com/ ] and what do you think about her?

Never heard of her, but I'll check it out.

I don't have all the answers, but I'm thinking probably together, as a group that will begin to speak up, share with each other, try to help, that with God's help, those answers do exist.  A piece here and a piece there.  Maybe something good is beginning to happen.  I agree, the government ABSOLUTELY doesn't have all the answers, and that's what's frustrating me, the more and more they seem to insist they do - "just trust us", said the fox to the chicken.

More ideas guys?  And always, let's pray for each other  :thumbsup:.

Here is my main point, if the current effort of "change" is actually bad, then of course, let's not do it.   However stopping those efforts changes absolutely nothing for my situation.

So thanks for offering something I can look at.

[Molly]

  But, there are ways to address that without jumping from the frying pan into the fire with a 1000 page bill that gives this type of control to the government.

Ok, what is the way to fix my problem?

I don't know but I do know the answer isn't more big government.  How is their track record so far? Haven't they already spent social security so that the baby-boomers will be retiring to empty coffers? I think maybe doing it at the state level might be better--but we aren't seeing rave reviews coming out of massachusetts, either [because of the cost]. The massachusetts plan would fix my friend's problem, but I don't know about yours. Maybe a subsidy with no strings attached by the feds to the states?  Keeping it close to home is always better in terms of keeping things from getting out of control. 

The other problem is the doctors.  How much more can we abuse doctors before they start walking or closing their practices?  I have heard that a third of the family practicioners are over 65 and will be retiring in a few years.   We need happy doctors to get good healthcare, too.  Give them some tort reform, and protect their salaries and standard of care. 

[Paul Hazelwood]

I don't know

What does a shoulder shrug do for my problem even if I agree with everything you say?

[Molly]

I don't know

What does a shoulder shrug do for my problem even if I agree with everything you say?

I just gave you a solution--the state level.

[Paul Hazelwood]

I don't know

What does a shoulder shrug do for my problem even if I agree with everything you say?

I just gave you a solution--the state level.

So I can go to the state now and get medicine for my wife?

[Molly]

I don't know

What does a shoulder shrug do for my problem even if I agree with everything you say?

I just gave you a solution--the state level.

So I can go to the state now and get medicine for my wife?

I don't know your situation.  I don't know if Obama's plan will fix it.  I don't know if the massachusetts plan would fix it.

But, I do know one thing:  Obama just told me he doesn't care what I think or what anyone else thinks:  he is going to pass his bill this year. 

That's not representative government unless he can somehow get people behind a bill that they currently do not want.

[Paul Hazelwood]

But, I do know one thing:  Obama just told me he doesn't care what I think or what anyone else thinks:  he is going to pass his bill this year. 

I'm not arguing your perspective, there  is no use in that.   You can be right and I'll agree with everything you say, and you know what?


My wife still needs medicine.

That's not representative government unless he can somehow get people behind a bill that they currently do not want.

And this problem existed for me before Obama.  So if perhaps you felt Bush cared about what you think, you know what?

My wife still needs medicine.

[Molly]

My wife still needs medicine.

I have another friend who has ms, and she is getting expensive medications paid for through a combination of medicare (I think, on a disability program) and private insurance (because she is still young).

What if the Obama plan doesn't help your wife?  Do you know if it will?

[Paul Hazelwood]

My wife still needs medicine.

What if the Obama plan doesn't help your wife?  Do you know if it will?

Well, have you read through the 1017 page document at all?  I have not finished it but there is a good chance it will.

Now do you have a quicker solution to cause me to abandon my support for it or not?

[onlytruth]

Hi everyone...Canada's system isn't so bad as they make it out to be.I live in canada and don't know of anyone who did not receive the attention they required.
I do know of a lot of people who take advantage of the doctor's office and waste a lot of time though!
When I see all the people yelling in the town hall meetings, it seems to be the white middle class who seem to be afraid that someone below them on the"economic scale" might get the same benefits as them.Heaven forbid they end up at the same medical office as someone off the "street"
God has a plan for everyone...so does the obama medical plan!
blessings :icon_king:

[Paul Hazelwood]

My wife still needs medicine.

I have another friend who has ms, and she is getting expensive medications paid for through a combination of medicare (I think, on a disability program) and private insurance (because she is still young).

I do not argue what works, my dad would be dead if not for a government program that has helped him get the care he needs in his elderly years.  I am glad your friend is benefitting from that also and would never argue to remove it.

[Molly]

 

I have not finished it but there is a good chance it will.

How?

[Molly]

Hi everyone...Canada's system isn't so bad as they make it out to be.I live in canada and don't know of anyone who did not receive the attention they required.
I do know of a lot of people who take advantage of the doctor's office and waste a lot of time though!
When I see all the people yelling in the town hall meetings, it seems to be the white middle class who seem to be afraid that someone below them on the"economic scale" might get the same benefits as them.Heaven forbid they end up at the same medical office as someone off the "street"
God has a plan for everyone...so does the obama medical plan!
blessings :icon_king:

I have met people who come here from Canada to pay privately for healthcare because of the poor level of service and long waits they say they get there.  Obviously, they are voting with their pocketbooks and their feet.

[Paul Hazelwood]

I have not finished it but there is a good chance it will.

How?

Because it talks about fixing things in the current system (rather than removing it like some say) that is causing the denial of coverage I am paying for with my pocket book now.  The reason we can't get the medicine is its too new,  we are biding our time in hopes that it's newness wears off and I just got off the phone with a representative of the insurance company that may be of some help.   The grace of God IS with us as she could be dead while we wait for both the government and people against the government with no solution for me now.   I'm for a solution down the road so no one else has to go through this.

But I believe the newness of a medicine will not matter under the proposed plan, or they will force insurance companies to pay.

So have you read any of the actual document?

Perhaps when I am done reading the whole thing I will have a different opinion,  but so far those telling me it's bad have not read it at all but they are full of weblinks.  I hope you are not like them.

[Paul Hazelwood]

Hi everyone...Canada's system isn't so bad as they make it out to be.I live in canada and don't know of anyone who did not receive the attention they required.
I do know of a lot of people who take advantage of the doctor's office and waste a lot of time though!
When I see all the people yelling in the town hall meetings, it seems to be the white middle class who seem to be afraid that someone below them on the"economic scale" might get the same benefits as them.Heaven forbid they end up at the same medical office as someone off the "street"
God has a plan for everyone...so does the obama medical plan!
blessings :icon_king:

I have met people who come here from Canada to pay privately for healthcare because of the poor level of service and long waits they say they get there.  Obviously, they are voting with their pocketbooks and their feet.

I'm sure people that have enough money to pay can get ahead of both of us if they green the pockets of the right people.

[onlytruth]

Hi Molly,...if you don't want to wait ,it is your option to travel abroad.Although if the problem becomes a life or death situation,the government will even fly them anywhere for medical attention on their dime.
Some people don't want to wait,but eventually everyone gets the help they need.
Funny here in Canada,noone really wants the Americam system as it is now.Unfortunately we only here about the complainers and not all the people who have been helped :icon_king:

[jabcat]

Paul, you're welcome on "something to look at".  I was thinking about Dr. Day on my way in to work this afternoon.  She does believe in UR (or at least not ET).  She makes some very bold health statements (as well as other things).  I can't necessarily recommend her, though she actually may have something that will help your wife.  I know I would like to look at her ideas more closely this evening and see if she has ideas about what's happening now, as well as hypertension and high cholesterol (2 of my issues I'm still using big pharma for).  I don't know a lot of her specific recommendations (or if she's a "cracked vessel"  :bigGrin:), I just know she's a believer and has some radical ideas.  Some maybe too radical, I don't know.  I'd be interested in some folks taking a really close look at her ideas and give them a fair discussion.

[Molly]

Because it talks about fixing things in the current system (rather than removing it like some say) that is causing the denial of coverage I am paying for with my pocket book now.  The reason we can't get the medicine is its too new,  we are biding our time in hopes that it's newness wears off and I just got off the phone with a representative of the insurance company that may be of some help.   The grace of God IS with us as she could be dead while we wait for both the government and people against the government with no solution for me now.   I'm for a solution down the road so no one else has to go through this.

'fixing things' is too vague.  I just listened to Obama talk.  Sounds to me like he wants to drive the private insurance companies out of business by removing the government subsidy given to them now under medicare and by putting the gov't in business as their competitor.  He was extremely vague if that last option is still on the table because they are getting a lot of resistance on it.  Once the gov't is the only provider--and there is no more competition--watch out--or take a look at the VA system.

One thing that I was thinking about for you is to call your insurance company and also call the drug maker--and tell them you need help.  I'll pray for you.  Something tells me they will be responsive.

[jabcat]

Hi everyone...Canada's system isn't so bad as they make it out to be.I live in canada and don't know of anyone who did not receive the attention they required.
I do know of a lot of people who take advantage of the doctor's office and waste a lot of time though!
When I see all the people yelling in the town hall meetings, it seems to be the white middle class who seem to be afraid that someone below them on the"economic scale" might get the same benefits as them.Heaven forbid they end up at the same medical office as someone off the "street"
God has a plan for everyone...so does the obama medical plan!
blessings :icon_king:

Hi ot.  You may be 100% right, this is only my take on it.  Though I've not been to any of the town hall meetings, here's what I believe is (in large part, I know many have different agendas) going on.  

I think what you're observing is multi-faceted and a culmination of people being fed up.  Basically, I see people VERY tired of big government encroaching into our lives more and more.  People don't want higher taxes, they want the tax money we're already paying to be put to good use instead of so much of it sqandered;  including on lavish lifestyles of those in government.  They may want to "spread the wealth".  Then let them start by offering about 50% of their riches to the money pot/pit.

People are also tired of feeling they're ignored, not heard, that the wishes of the people really don't matter;  that what seems to matter is an ideology that's been developing/blooming for at least the past 30-40 years (longer really, much longer), that says "we know what's best for you.  We are smarter, superior, and you need to just step aside and let us do what we want".  I BELIEVE this has come to fruition under our current administration.  Our president has admitted he sought out his Marxist professors while in college, and that him and some of the elite lifelong politicians now want to put their agenda in place.

As far as healthcare specifically, I don't think "anyone" in the group finally speaking up, wouldn't want ANYONE to not have access to health care, including "people off the street".  It's so many issues (feared and real) that are around the whole proposal.  They/we are afraid (and I think with good cause - long discussion with multiple reasons and facts) that freedoms will continue to be lost, government involved more, and costs (many unecessary) continue to rise.  That what's being put out as an "option" will be set up that within a short time, most other options will become (EVEN MORE) unreasonable/unobtainable until we're all sucking on the teet of the state for survival.

There are things broken in the current system, things such as noted by Paul and Molly.  Everyone, even illegals in America, can get a certain level of health care, even if it's minimally emergency care.  Perhaps not adequate, and again, things are broken.  But many of us want reasonable, thoughful solutions that correct some specific things, not to just steam-roll over us with the ideas of the STATE.  Just one example of the long arm of the government, represented in this current assault, is as follows;  although I can't give you the article/section numbers, I will research it some more.  But I have heard this part read, including the reference #'s.  Paraphrasing;  "if you are pregnant or already have small children in the home, there will be a government representative sent to your home to advise you on parenting methods in which to raise your children".  Don't believe it?  I would doubt it too, but that, as well as 100 others are probably worth looking into further.  I plan to.  I heard a Christian radio talk show host that has access to much of the proposed legislation read that part over the air this week.

So misuse, abuse, indifference to the "common man", all coming to a head in these little town hall meetings that are being attempted to be marginalized and demonized.  But in my perhaps incorrect opinion, and what I hope as a positive, blessed outcome to be, that people are beginning to be awakened from OUR slumber, starting to say "I don't like this", and letting them know we're not numbers in their Marxist/socialist system.

My  :2c: from middle America.  Literally, as in living in the midwest; and figuratively, as in an Independent non-voter/ would-be conscientious objector unless under direct attack mixed heritage (Anglo-Cherokee-Black Dutch) American that's finally pretty aggravated.

[Paul Hazelwood]

Perhaps the government officials who do not want universal health care should stop taking the health care that our tax dollars provide them.

[Paul Hazelwood]

Molly, appreciate your prayers regaurdless.

[jabcat]

One thing I've heard offered is that we could take an amount of money, even in some increased taxes, and provide insurance vouchers for individuals and families that would pay for them to have a plan.  I would prefer something like that as opposed to blowing up the whole system.  Provide some vouchers, set some profit/gouging limits, etc., tweak what we've got. 

That's probably only a partial solution though, as based on your situation Paul, you already pay out the nose and still don't get what your family needs  :sigh:.  But then maybe if the voucher provided the coverage, then funds would be more available to buy the meds.  Thinking out loud.

I still encourage people to keep talking about it and looking for real solutions together.  At the very least they know we're paying attention and that makes it less likely we'll be steam-rolled.  But I really believe there are more solutions "out here" amongst us than in the plushly carpeted hide-outs of the elite.