Tentmaker Forum

I heard a brother with a widely respected prophetic ministry (John Paul Jackson) say something to the effect that we need to pray for President Obama so the Moslem's extremists, who would make it look racialy motivated, would not be able to assassinate him; because, it would cause riots and murders in the USA that would make Rwanda look like a Sunday School picnic.

(There are some saying to pray for him according to Psalm 109:8:  "Let his days be few; and let another take his office." -- AV  They do not understand the difference between good and evil.  "Or can we say, 'Let's do evil so that good will come from it'? Some slander us and claim that this is what we say. They are condemned, and that's what they deserve." Romans 3:8, -- God's Word)

I keep President Obama in my prayers for his safety (as well as his family).    He has had many assassination threats from the racist segments of America since he took office. 
If anything bad happens to him (God forbid), all hell will break loose in America.  Barack Obama identifies in many ways with Abraham Lincoln.  I sure hope he does not share the same fate that Lincoln had.  It would be devastating to our country.

Anne

I believe we should pray for our leaders, whether we agree with their beliefs or agenda or not - as the scriptures instruct us to do.  Whether they remain in authority, whether God leads them, straightens them out, etc., all according to God's will.  Sometimes He protects us, sometimes He gives us what we "ask for" to wake us up, bring repentance, then healing.  It's a good reminder to pray for our leaders, and continually ask God's will be done - on earth, as it is heaven.

James.

Sorry Jab,
but I do not consider the brethren part of the Obama nation.
He is not my leader by any sense of the term.

Quote from: jabcat on November 19, 2009, 02:25:42 AM
I believe we should pray for our leaders, whether we agree with their beliefs or agenda or not - as the scriptures instruct us to do.  Whether they remain in authority, whether God leads them, straightens them out, etc., all according to God's will.  Sometimes He protects us, sometimes He gives us what we "ask for" to wake us up, bring repentance, then healing.  It's a good reminder to pray for our leaders, and continually ask God's will be done - on earth, as it is heaven.

James.

I would have to say I really agree with this. Granted, I tend to keep all things political out of my mind lately. But I feel this is a good thing to do and I haven't been doing it.
Thanks for the reminder you guys.

Some have said we ought to pray for our President Obama according to Psalm 109:8, "Let his days be few; and let another take his office."  I don't think they have brought this idea to Lord for His opinion.  After all, He defeats His enemies by changing them into friends, overcoming evil with good.

"Or can we say, "Let's do evil so that good will come from it"? Some slander us and claim that this is what we say. They are condemned, and that's what they deserve." (Romans 3:8, God's Word)

I heard a brother with a widely respected prophetic ministry (John Paul Jackson) say something to the effect that we need to pray for President Obama so the Moslem's extremists, who would make it look racially motivated, would not be able to assassinate him.  And, if it should happen, it would cause riots and murders in the USA that would make Rwanda look like a Sunday School picnic.

How much we need God to reveal in us His Son Who says:

Matthew 5:43-48 (Young's Literal)...
43 `Ye heard that it was said: Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and shalt hate thine enemy;
44 but I--I say to you, Love your enemies, bless those cursing you, do good to those hating you, and pray for those accusing you falsely, and persecuting you,
45 that ye may be sons of your Father in the heavens, because His sun He doth cause to rise on evil and good, and He doth send rain on righteous and unrighteous.
46 `For, if ye may love those loving you, what reward have ye? do not also the tax-gatherers the same?
47 and if ye may salute your brethren only, what do ye abundant? do not also the tax-gatherers so?
48 ye shall therefore be perfect, as your Father who is in the heavens is perfect.

Romans 12:14, 16-21 (Young's Literal)...
14 Bless those persecuting you; bless, and curse not;
16 ...become not wise in your own conceit...
17 giving back to no one evil for evil; providing right things before all men.
18 If possible--so far as in you--with all men being in peace;
19 not avenging yourselves, beloved, but give place to the wrath, for it hath been written, `Vengeance is Mine,
20 I will recompense again, saith the Lord;' if, then, thine enemy doth hunger, feed him; if he doth thirst, give him drink; for this doing, coals of fire thou shalt heap upon his head;
21 Be not overcome by the evil, but overcome, in the good, the evil.

Until Unconditional Love is established in us we are still under tutors and governors, subject to the elements of this world.  Grace is not based on something in youself or it would be unstable.  Grace is foundational to the nature of God Who changes not.  His is not a maybe, maybe not being.  He is the Absolute.  Unconditional Love is both the sum and the indispensable quality of the Divine nature we are partaking of to be being born from above.  Mercy is God's darling attribute.  He says, "I will mercy, and not sacrifice."  Mercy in Hebrew is chesed, "the ardor to fulfill," and is covenantal love in action.  Grace in Greek is charis, "the result of the need met, that which fills full."   The Glory rests upon the Mercy Throne, the Throne of Grace.  He rules by blessing.  As the seed of Abraham we inherit the world.  As the seed of David we have the right to rule it.  We must become Overcomers in the same way Jesus overcame to sit with Him in His Father's throne.   The Throne of Mercy must be established in us before we can rule.  At the center, ruling over all, the Word, Who is the Image and Glory of God, rests upon the Mercy Throne.

1 Timothy 2:1-6 (Authorized Version)...
1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

[/b]
God's will in this matter is abundantly apparent.  We are to pray for good to overcome evil and to bring to naught evil schemes from depraved minds.  We are to pray "for," not "against" all persons in authority.  We should pray for their barrenness...O LORD, flood with fulfilling mercies!


your brother, James M. Rohde

Quote from: ReformerI heard a brother with a widely respected prophetic ministry (John Paul Jackson) say something to the effect that we need to pray for President Obama so the Moslem's extremists, who would make it look racially motivated, would not be able to assassinate him.  And, if it should happen, it would cause riots and murders in the USA that would make Rwanda look like a Sunday School picnic.

I have been listening to him since you mentioned his name--enjoying it.  I think he is saying that if such a thing were to happen it would be made to look like it was done by a white 'supremist,' thereby motivating a race war in the states.

First of all, there are no white supremists of the variety that think that those of other races should be killed.   At least, none that are sane. This is mostly a made up story portrayed and spread by actors.   Secondly, if the whole country would become enlightened by the truth, there would be no race war ever.  They have been trying to start a race war for the last 40 years in this country and it has not yet worked.  I will pray that it remain that way.

PS If this were a 'racist' country, Obama never would have been elected in the first place.  Let's put that lie to rest once and for all, too.

No racism in America?  You must be kidding!  Not only are there racists in America, but they invoke the name of God and Christ.

Baptist Pastor Prays for Obama's Death
Pastor Steven Anderson: "I hope that God strikes Obama with brain cancer so he can die like Ted Kennedy."
http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-obama-preacher,0,6513505.story

Phoenix Pastor Draws Protests After Telling Church He Prays for Obama's Death
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/31/phoenix-pastor-draws-protests-telling-church-prays-obamas-death/


Pastor Drake Prays For Obama's Death.
By John Amato
http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/pastor-drake-prays-obamas-death-im-not

 :cloud9: They've clearly forgotten the principle of sowing and REAPING........ :sigh:

Quote from: raggedyanneNo racism in America?  You must be kidding!  Not only are there racists in America, but they invoke the name of God and Christ.

I said that America is not a racist country or Obama would never have been elected.  I am right about that.

We are also still a free country--where people are free to voice their opinions, even if you don't like them--and their opinions might have nothing to do with race.  ha!

...concerning those that pray for Obama's death:

Quote from: Cardinal on November 20, 2009, 01:39:32 AM
:cloud9: They've clearly forgotten the principle of sowing and REAPING........ :sigh:

This reminds me of a time when I was told by a new manager at theg restaurant where I worked that was owned by Christians, as even he claimed to be, that I would be eliminated if I spoke to any more customers about God.  Now I had just prior to this been impressed to go and speak to a lady that had come through the buffet line because she was grieving.  I did and it turned out that her husband had just died two weeks before.  She sent me Christmas cards for years.  Understand the we had a house where many of us who worked there lived.  We had a Christian book nook at the front of the cafe.  Myself and others played hyms and spiritual songs for the lunch and dinner hour.  We had participatory gatherings every morning except Sunday and several evenings a week.  So when I was forbidden to speak on pain of banishment I went back to my post at the dishwasher, raised my hand to Jesus and started to ask God to just remove this manager.  Then I realized I shouldn't ask something for another I'm not willing to ask for myself.  So I thought about it and changed my prayer.  I said to God, "What if I'm not submitting to my elders as he said?  I don't know everything.  But it seems clear that we both can't work here.  I'm asking you to remove one of us."  Within 24 hours that man was gone.  As a family man He was glad to accept the offer of a better job selling cars in a coastal state half the North American continent away.

Awesome, ReFORMer,

Who ever would have dreamed that America would have sunken so low as to have men from the pulpit
praying for God to curse the President of the nation.    It is no wonder I stay away from the churches.

Quote from: Molly on November 20, 2009, 01:44:40 AM
I said that America is not a racist country or Obama would never have been elected.  I am right about that.

I beg to differ...you might think that and wish that, but that is not what you are showing the rest of the world...

your "wars on civilizations" are nothing BUT racism, your disregard for human life and your support for murderers IS racism

Quote from: noname on November 20, 2009, 10:00:43 AM

Quote from: Molly on November 20, 2009, 01:44:40 AM
I said that America is not a racist country or Obama would never have been elected.  I am right about that.

I beg to differ...you might think that and wish that, but that is not what you are showing the rest of the world...

your "wars on civilizations" are nothing BUT racism, your disregard for human life and your support for murderers IS racism

Noname, I know you have the heart of God.   The man was elected to stop the wars.  What do you want us to do if he doesn't?  Now all we can do is pray and vote again in 2010.

And, those speaking out against it are called 'racist.'

Quote from: noname on November 20, 2009, 10:00:43 AM

Quote from: Molly on November 20, 2009, 01:44:40 AM
I said that America is not a racist country or Obama would never have been elected.  I am right about that.

I beg to differ...you might think that and wish that, but that is not what you are showing the rest of the world...

your "wars on civilizations" are nothing BUT racism, your disregard for human life and your support for murderers IS racism

Explain me why it are racist wars? Or perhaps your definition of racism would clarify things also.
Is the war in Iraq as war based on racism? Personally I think it has nothing to do with racism. Just greed and other things.

Quote from: Molly on November 20, 2009, 10:20:21 AM

Quote from: noname on November 20, 2009, 10:00:43 AM

Quote from: Molly on November 20, 2009, 01:44:40 AM
I said that America is not a racist country or Obama would never have been elected.  I am right about that.

I beg to differ...you might think that and wish that, but that is not what you are showing the rest of the world...

your "wars on civilizations" are nothing BUT racism, your disregard for human life and your support for murderers IS racism

Noname, I know you have the heart of God.   The man was elected to stop the wars.  What do you want us to do if he doesn't?  Now all we can do is pray and vote again in 2010.

And, those speaking out against it are called 'racist.'

Where I live the racist label is very often used by people that don't have arguments. Or just don't grasp what the real motivation of certain actions is. I guess it's pretty much the same elsewhere.
If teh average American is blamed of being racist because he/she voted for a president that wages war at several countries (with people of the same skin color) then also be fair and also claim apartheid in Africa was what the people wanted to have. If they didn't like it they shouldn't have supported it. Both claims are pure nonsense.

Quote from: WhiteWings on November 20, 2009, 10:36:26 AM

Quote from: Molly on November 20, 2009, 10:20:21 AM

Quote from: noname on November 20, 2009, 10:00:43 AM

Quote from: Molly on November 20, 2009, 01:44:40 AM
I said that America is not a racist country or Obama would never have been elected.  I am right about that.

I beg to differ...you might think that and wish that, but that is not what you are showing the rest of the world...

your "wars on civilizations" are nothing BUT racism, your disregard for human life and your support for murderers IS racism

Noname, I know you have the heart of God.   The man was elected to stop the wars.  What do you want us to do if he doesn't?  Now all we can do is pray and vote again in 2010.

And, those speaking out against it are called 'racist.'

Where I live the racist label is very often used by people that don't have arguments. Or just don't grasp what the real motivation of certain actions is. I guess it's pretty much the same elsewhere.
If teh average American is blamed of being racist because he/she voted for a president that wages war at several countries (with people of the same skin color) then also be fair and also claim apartheid in Africa was what the people wanted to have. If they didn't like it they shouldn't have supported it. Both claims are pure nonsense.

racism is much bigger than just the hate between races...it extends to "countryism" or "spherism"...I'll explain...

when 13 US soldiers are killed like they were at Ft Hood...massive investigations must be launched by the FBI, government committees, the vice president...it must be run on all TV news channels over and over again to ad nauseum...BUT...
when almost 2 million people have already died in the ME due to American and NATO aggression, nobody wants to know about it...nobody wants to know about Pakistani civilians being bombed in their homes by US preditor drones...all we get is..."oops...sorry, we made a mistake"...and maybe one little line on this "unfortunate" event in a paper somewhere

or when the babies of Fallujah are born by the hundreds with deformities due depleted uranium exposure and Iraqi doctors send a plea to the UN stating the facts...what coverage or restoration do these families get?

when almost 2000 civilians died in Gaza due to israel's aggression...where was the outcry from the USA and/or Europe?
and when a report was given to all the nations of the earth regarding Israel's gross violations of international law and human rights by one of the world's most respected judges...the USA votes to silence this report

the USA and the so called western world does NOT care about anyone but themselves...this is racism or countryism or spherism of the worst kind

Quote from: Nonamethe USA and the so called western world does NOT care about anyone but themselves...this is racism or countryism or spherism of the worst kind

You are talking about a corrupted press.  But, even with the corruption of information, people do care.  Again, the man was elected to stop the wars.  We should pray that he fulfill his mandate, which includes upholding the Constitution of the United States, even if, at this point, it looks like we would be praying for a miracle.

Quote from: Molly on November 20, 2009, 11:24:03 AM

Quote from: Nonamethe USA and the so called western world does NOT care about anyone but themselves...this is racism or countryism or spherism of the worst kind

You are talking about a corrupted press.  But, even with the corruption of information, people do care.  Again, the man was elected to stop the wars.  We should pray that he fulfill his mandate, which includes upholding the Constitution of the United States.

Molly, you have elected this man...it is now your responsibility to hold him accountable...whatever it takes
if your goverment is "for the people by the people", the people must act...else you are a partaker of his sins

Quote from: noname on November 20, 2009, 11:34:32 AM

Quote from: Molly on November 20, 2009, 11:24:03 AM

Quote from: Nonamethe USA and the so called western world does NOT care about anyone but themselves...this is racism or countryism or spherism of the worst kind

You are talking about a corrupted press.  But, even with the corruption of information, people do care.  Again, the man was elected to stop the wars.  We should pray that he fulfill his mandate, which includes upholding the Constitution of the United States.

Molly, you have elected this man...it is now your responsibility to hold him accountable...whatever it takes
if your goverment is "for the people by the people", the people must act...else you are a partaker of his sins

The only redress is Congress and the courts, which are also being pursued.  You know, that Congress that was elected to stop the wars four years ago?  People are acting.  But, our system does not protect us against politicians who lie.

I think most people are a bit racist, it is very ingrained. Just claiming America is not racist is not helpful. By saying it is not racist just reinforces peoples ideas that those of ethnic minorities who say that it is are uppity, have a chip on their sholder, are an angry black woman, aggressive, ungreatful....etc.

Just because the majority voted Obama in doesn't mean the usa isn't racist, it sounds like, "I cant be racist I have a black friend"


the POTUS was voted in because people got to know him, but racism is based on pre judgement, people may have pre judged him but there was so much press coverage, two auto biographies we got to know him really well and people saw more than his race (although there is a very real, significant minority who cannot get passed his skin colour). THe problem is most black people do not get the same chance to be known for who they really are when they are walking down the street and you cluch your purse a little closer, or when they are running for a bus and get stopped by the police the list goes on. Those two examples are bad but I think they are examples of a racism so ingrained it isnt even a conscious behaviour.


The really damaging racism is to think that just because you do not see the country as racist you discount the thousands of testimonies of those who experience racism on a day to day basis and you just reinforce the stereo types I spoke of at the start.

Quote from: noname on November 20, 2009, 11:15:24 AM
racism is much bigger than just the hate between races...it extends to "countryism" or "spherism"...I'll explain...

Let me start saying I snipped most of reply to make things easier to read.
I agree killing, torture etc etc is not good. No matter if the killed person is black, white, green or blue.
But I simply don't agree with your definition of racism. For me it's, for example, waging war against a country with the only reason that they have the wrong color. KKK style. It's the color that counts.
A country with only blue eyed people invading a country with dark skinned people isn't rascim per definition.
If they invade that country because of skin color... yes that is racism. But what if they invade it for cheap oil, steel, gold, diamonds? That's "just" as war based on greed. I wonder what the situation would be if the all Iraqi people had blond hair and blue eyes. I think that would not have made any difference.

Quotewhen almost 2000 civilians died in Gaza due to israel's aggression...where was the outcry from the USA and/or Europe?

I can say it bothers some people that live here. Most don't know or don't care. Not because they are 'just Palistinians' but because they don't care about nothing when it doesn't affect them.
A little explanation that imo extremely well explains this topic.
If someone sees the obituaries in the newspaper it's nothing more than a 'news item' Likely to boring to spend time on.
But what if it's the obituary is of their wife or son? Then suddenly the impact is far greater. Why? Just one of many. Just like all the other millions of obituaries that were printed before and after that particular one.
And that's what's going on! Indifference!

So to summarize my opionion:
a- Many/most wars are about resources. => Greed.
b- Propaganda blinds the eyes. Just look at Nazi Germany. Goebels made it sound like there where 3 billion demons on earths. => Blinded.
c- War? We? Where? Ermm.... I don't even know where that country is....? => Uninformed
d- Who cares? Shut up now because I'm watching football on TV. => Hardened hearts

And the points mentioned above is the state of the world we are in. (IMO)
Sure my list wouldn't be complete if I added "e- Racism" but I think that's not the main reason for the current (US) wars.

Quote from: natThe really damaging racism is to think that just because you do not see the country as racist you discount the thousands of testimonies of those who experience racism on a day to day basis and you just reinforce the stereo types I spoke of at the start.

We elected a man to the highest office in our land based on what he said he would do, not based on his skin color.  If skin color were an issue, he would not have been elected.  This is not the same as having a 'black friend.'

Everyone is a victim of stereotyping because people make snap judgments about other people, whether you are male or female, young or old, white or black, or a particular ethnic group---you will experience stereotyping, for one reason or another.

That's the human condition.  The human condition is what we must move beyond, not 'racism.'
And, I think we're making very good progress.



2 Corinthians 5:16
Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

yes, i s'pose one can argue what racism is or not...it all basically comes down to a situation of "us" vs "them"...that's why I'm so longing for the Kingdom of God to be manifest...cause in the Kingdom there'd only be "us"

come Lord Jesus, come!

We elected a man to the highest office in our land based on what he said he would do, not based on his skin color.  If skin color were an issue, he would not have been elected.  This is not the same as having a 'black friend.'



[/quote]

I said that he was voted in because people saw past his race because you got to know him. So we dont disagree there, what I am saying is that voting Obama in doesnt make you a non racist any more thn not voting for him makes you a racist.

Quote from: noname on November 20, 2009, 12:15:41 PM
yes, i s'pose one can argue what racism is or not...it all basically comes down to a situation of "us" vs "them"

And even that is to positive.
It's "us wants that".
It's not about people. It's about the things they have.
Let's put this to the extreme. Suppose that in 1981 a spokesman of the joined Arab countries came to the White House and said: Hi Ronald, we are a huge fan of your movies and really like you. Our Arab Reagan fan club decided we have more oil that we ever need and we are going to build a big pipeline to the USA. All on our costs. You can take as much oil from it as you want. I think the people in that regions would be called "friends, partners, etc" instead of "The axis of evil"
Just because "we" get the oil for free. Then Bush Sr and Jr. didn't have to pretent they were "bringing freedom and democracy" instead of securing oil supplies. If all the oil was in the US then the Arab countries would be virtually unknown.
It's about the stuff not the people. Death is just collateral damage.
If Germany had massive oil supplies it would still be occupied territory. Then the official reason would be the US troops protecting the world from a country with 60 million potential Hitlers. But the real reason would be oil. The stuff not the people.
Greed masquerades as many things but it's the originator of many bad things. Someone far greater than me agrees with that view  :laughing7:: 1 Timothy 6:10 For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil

Quote from: natcat86 on November 20, 2009, 12:31:38 PMWe elected a man to the highest office in our land based on what he said he would do, not based on his skin color.  If skin color were an issue, he would not have been elected.  This is not the same as having a 'black friend.'

QuoteI said that he was voted in because people saw past his race because you got to know him. So we dont disagree there, what I am saying is that voting Obama in doesnt make you a non racist any more thn not voting for him makes you a racist.

I'm just an outsider but I somehow doubt he was elected for his qualities. The elections started out with about 30 candidates??? But from the start the focus was on Obama and Clinton.
And in every bit of press coverage the most important thing was black candidate Obama and female canditate Clinton? If it is about their intelect and plans then it doesn't matter if they are black/white/male/female.
But everything was geared towards a choice between a black and a female.
Both were very odd. A negro for president??? A female for president??? Yeah that's great news that demands much coverage.
I bet if Mc Cain was a black woman he would have won the elections :winkgrin:

Quote from: Raggedy Anne on November 20, 2009, 07:40:20 AM
Awesome, ReFORMer,

Who ever would have dreamed that America would have sunken so low as to have men from the pulpit
praying for God to curse the President of the nation.    It is no wonder I stay away from the churches.

So "who" are these people "praying" to since the Bible says to pray
"for" those in authority?

I can't believe the degradation of this nation.  The braveness of some
people to revel in their sin natures.

The day is upon us to "know" who serves God and "who" does not.
The carnal man does NOT!!
Never has.
Never will.

Is not subject to the Law of God.

The law of God "wars" against the law of sin "written" in our members
til the Law of the Spirit of LIFE quickens us out of that war.

We are blessed to have been quickened.

I "try" not to judge, but God help us all, "this" is awful the way people
are tarring and feathering some others in our day.  I don't know if I
can "even" "be" burdened over it, I am told to enter REST and leave
it to God, He would have to "give" ME A BURDEN OF PRAYER......
WE CAN SEE THE SIGNS OF THE TIME UPON US.  GOD BLESS YOU
ALL.

Quote from: wwIt's not about people. It's about the things they have.

It's about Satan not wanting anyone to have anything.  Curse God and die is his motto.

We don't need their oil.  We have oil coming out of our ears right here in our own country.  The environmentalists pretend they want to save the polar bear, but they care nothing about the desert mole [or the people] in another country?  It's all nonsense.

The world has sent those countries billions of dollars for their oil.  Why aren't the people of those countries richer than kings?

And, death on both sides is not just collateral damage.



Proverbs 8:36
But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

Quote from: Molly on November 20, 2009, 12:13:40 PM





That's the human condition.  The human condition is what we must move beyond, not 'racism.'
And, I think we're making very good progress.



2 Corinthians 5:16
Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.



I am "for" Barak Obama.  He is as much "white" as he is "black" but
people are so aganist "blacks" they don't even notice that.
I am proud therefore for the opportunities he was afforded.
I know "nothing" that I can really understand about POLITIcs.
But.......I know something about humanity...........I know that all
men everwhere have the same hurts, the same devil to content with,
the same pains, the same joys, ....therefore let us not be "against"
anyone but help when the Spirit leads.

Molly, I'm glad we are told to look beyond the "flesh" and know
people by the Spirit, but it sure takes a high mind.

Quote from: RLVSo "who" are these people "praying" to since the Bible says to pray
"for" those in authority?

Hi Red, I'm not saying this is the case now, but if you were living in Nazi Germany, would you have prayed that Hitler live a long and healthy life?  Would you pray that he change his ways?  Would you pray that he be converted?  Would you pray for God to bind him?  Would you pray he be victorious in his endeavors?

What would you pray for Hitler?  Would you speak out against him or for him?

Germany was one of the biggest Christian countries in the world at the time.

The Christian ministers and priests who spoke out against him were thrown in camps or killed.  Were they wrong to do so?

Quote from: Molly on November 20, 2009, 01:05:47 PM

Quote from: wwIt's not about people. It's about the things they have.

We don't need their oil.  We have oil coming out of our ears right here in our own country.

That's new technology. Unproved. And more expensive atm
Plus you are overlooking a major thing. I wrote wars are often about resources. And that equals money. What if war itself has become an industry and is profiteble for some? Then waging wars is earning money. All you need then is an enemy. Enemies are easily found and/or made.

QuoteThe world has sent those countries billions of dollars for their oil.  Why aren't the people of those countries richer than kings?

Because their kings are greedy.

QuoteAnd, death on both sides is not just collateral damage.

For 'them' it is. Surely they would like to avoid death because that costs to much. It eats away the profits. Troops are just cannon fodder. The problem for those earning from wars is that when they run out of cannon fodder they their cash cow dries up. as long as cash flows in: collateral damage.

It is completely ridiculous to compare President Obama to Hitler (IMO). 

People on the far right have clearly lost their minds.  If you hate Obama, then you have no
business doing it in a thread titled "Pray for our President Obama!"  I'm not going to sit by
and let you trash the man without calling you out on it.  Stop it.

Anne

Quote from: Molly on November 20, 2009, 01:25:13 PM


Hi Red, I'm not saying this is the case now, but if you were living in Nazi Germany, would you have prayed that Hitler live a long and healthy life?  Would you pray that he change his ways?  Would you pray that he be converted?  Would you pray for God to bind him?  Would you pray he be victorious in his endeavors?

What would you pray for Hitler?  Would you speak out against him or for him?

Germany was one of the biggest Christian countries in the world at the time.

The Christian ministers and priests who spoke out against him were thrown in camps or killed.  Were they wrong to do so?

Well seeing as when the command to pray for leaders was written the person writing it was witnessing a worse persecution of the Jews than the holocaust and a worse global occupation by those leaders I think that people should have prayed for Hitler. Seeing as in praying we are to ask for God's will to be done and His kingdom come that applied to Hitler too. The Jews had experieced real tyrany under many leaders but the new jewish christians were  still being commanded to pray for leaders.

Quote from: Raggedy Anne on November 21, 2009, 12:29:29 PMIt is completely ridiculous to compare President Obama to Hitler (IMO).

Anne, read all before gettin angry!
Why is it insane? They are both leaders. Does the Bible say that we only should pray for certain/good leaders?
Anne, if you have lived in Germany at that time you might have prayed for Hitler too. The rise of Hitler wasn't without a cause. Germany lost WW-1 The country was in deep poverty because of payments it had to make to other countries (among other things) Hitler offered them a way out. His insanity wasn't that obvious at that point. In fact his insanity was only seen by a select few. As far as the average citizen knew the Jews were transported to factories somewhere. Making all kind of things the troops needed. The existance of extermination camps was virtually unknown. There's much, much, more to say on this subject but let me just say that the German people just thought their army was fighting a nice clean war (as far a war can be nice and clean). Note: only a small fraction of the whole army knew about the horrors of the Jews, Gipsey's, mentally ill.
Plus don't forget the huge propaganda machine!
So when 'you' as a German mother hiding with your family in the shelter for air raid number 1028 with your husband somewhere fighting, yes Ann even you may have been praying for Hitler to be victorious.
The nasty things always happen in the hidden...

I always wondered how that could happen to an advanced civilization and a Christian country.  Unfortunately, after the last ten years, now I know.  The citizens supported it and silenced or shunned their fellow citizens who didn't. It takes a lot of courage to deal with that and most people don't have it.  By the time the majority woke up to what was going on, they were too terrified themselves to do anything about it.  Hannah Arendt called it 'the banality of evil.'

"I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty."
--1Timothy 2

It's interesting how Paul puts that. That's a compound sentence.   He tells us that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving thanks be made for all men.


"Supplications" is a neutral word, which is not indicative of for or against--

G1162
δέησις
deēsis
deh'-ay-sis
From G1189; a petition: - prayer, request, supplication.


"Prayers" is another neutral word, where the content is not specified--

"intercessions" is another neutral word, where the content is not specified--

G1783
ἔντευξις
enteuxis
ent'-yook-sis
From G1793; an interview, that is, (specifically) supplication: - intercession, prayer.



For kings, in particular, and those in authority, Paul tells us to pray that Christians may lead a quiet and peaceable life in godliness and honesty.  That didn't work out in his lifetime, but it worked out eventually--sometimes, somewhere.


2 For kings and all that be set in highness, that we lead a quiet and a peaceable life, in all piety and chastity.

The scribes and pharisees were quite familiar with the scriptures, yet they used them unlawfully.   That has not changed.

Anne

 :cloud9: The simplest thing is usually the best. We pray for His perfect will to be done in their lives, as He knows the heart, including how easy it is for Him to turn. That removes the possibility of praying any unrighteous prayers, that would only reap for the one doing the praying. Blessings.....

Quote from: Cardinal on November 22, 2009, 10:12:58 AM
:cloud9: The simplest thing is usually the best. We pray for His perfect will to be done in their lives, as He knows the heart, including how easy it is for Him to turn. That removes the possibility of praying any unrighteous prayers, that would only reap for the one doing the praying. Blessings.....

I would tend to think that, myself, not really based on anything I know to be true, but to be 'safe.'  Is there such a thing as an 'unrighteous prayer' cited in the Bible?  Those ministers in the links above used King David as their model.  David didn't mince words in his prayers about his enemies. lol  This is one of the Psalms they mentioned--




Psalm 58
1Do ye indeed speak righteousness, O congregation? do ye judge uprightly, O ye sons of men?

2Yea, in heart ye work wickedness; ye weigh the violence of your hands in the earth.

3The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

4Their poison is like the poison of a serpent: they are like the deaf adder that stoppeth her ear;

5Which will not hearken to the voice of charmers, charming never so wisely.

6Break their teeth, O God, in their mouth: break out the great teeth of the young lions, O LORD.

7Let them melt away as waters which run continually: when he bendeth his bow to shoot his arrows, let them be as cut in pieces.

8As a snail which melteth, let every one of them pass away: like the untimely birth of a woman, that they may not see the sun.

9Before your pots can feel the thorns, he shall take them away as with a whirlwind, both living, and in his wrath.

10The righteous shall rejoice when he seeth the vengeance: he shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked.

11So that a man shall say, Verily there is a reward for the righteous: verily he is a God that judgeth in the earth.

 :cloud9: Well, WWJD? Can you see Him praying for physical enemies to be destroyed? Our enemies are not carnal but spiritual. What controls Obama is not physical but spiritual; and if he really is a Muslim, which I have read in several articles that he is (from conversations in speeches), then we are dealing most likely with a prince of darkness over that religion, instead of your "garden variety" evil spirits. In which case, prayer and the anointing of Christ, is the only weapon we have.

I can tell you from personal experience dealing with what came at me over the salvation of the first one in a family that had not received Christ in nearly 2000 years, the rulers of darkness in that religion are particularly nasty and were it not for Christ and His anointing, I wouldn't be here today to talk about it.

Unrighteous prayers are those against His perfect will; which is why the Spirit is supposed to pray for us, cause we know not what we should pray. So what I do, if I don't know how to pray because the Spirit has not instructed me, I just pray for His perfect will to be done in whosever's life, and consider it lined up with His will, whatever that might be.

The reason we are told to pray for our enemies, so that coals will be put upon their heads, is because Pentecost is as what happened on Sinai, and on Sinai there were coals of fire. So basically He is telling us to pray them into the Kingdom and His covenant. Which basically is "taking the land" (their flesh), which we as believers have a right to do, ie. claim it for the Kingdom. Blessings....

Quote from: Cardinal on November 22, 2009, 05:46:28 PM
:cloud9: Well, WWJD? Can you see Him praying for physical enemies to be destroyed? Our enemies are not carnal but spiritual. What controls Obama is not physical but spiritual; and if he really is a Muslim, which I have read in several articles that he is (from conversations in speeches), then we are dealing most likely with a prince of darkness over that religion, instead of your "garden variety" evil spirits. In which case, prayer and the anointing of Christ, is the only weapon we have.

I can tell you from personal experience dealing with what came at me over the salvation of the first one in a family that had not received Christ in nearly 2000 years, the rulers of darkness in that religion are particularly nasty and were it not for Christ and His anointing, I wouldn't be here today to talk about it.

Unrighteous prayers are those against His perfect will; which is why the Spirit is supposed to pray for us, cause we know not what we should pray. So what I do, if I don't know how to pray because the Spirit has not instructed me, I just pray for His perfect will to be done in whosever's life, and consider it lined up with His will, whatever that might be.

The reason we are told to pray for our enemies, so that coals will be put upon their heads, is because Pentecost is as what happened on Sinai, and on Sinai there were coals of fire. So basically He is telling us to pray them into the Kingdom and His covenant. Which basically is "taking the land" (their flesh), which we as believers have a right to do, ie. claim it for the Kingdom. Blessings....

:thumbsup:    You have explained this very well sis ! :HeartThrob:

Obama has stated plainly that he is a Christian.  Have you even bothered to read either of his books?  He is not a Muslim.  His natural father was a Muslim.   
Do you really think God intends for the Christians to wipe out 2 Billion Muslims with swords?   I don't get the hatred against this man.  I think it is a product of fear. 
Bush, who claimed to be a Christian was a very openly ungodly leader.   But you took his word for it that he was born again just because he named the name of Jesus.  That is the problem with the far right - they just don't see their blatant hypocrisy.  They think that only Republicans are TRUE believers.  Yet the Republican party has gone over the edge of the cliff - they're mad!   

Oh well.  There are none so blind as those who cannot see.  And those who walk in a spirit of fear.  I do think it is a shame that you believe President Obama is a liar about his faith.

Anne

 :cloud9: Oh, I don't know about that Anne........I have seen videos of him saying "the Holy Quran says", more than once, and it is a fact that he placed Muslims in positions of national security posts, which to me is a lot like putting the fox in charge of the hen house. And the "holy" Quran basically says the end justifies the means, and if you have to lie or whatever to get what you want, then that's ok. My  :2c: Blessings....

hmm... Hot Topic, This! :happygrin:

Quote from: Cardinal on November 22, 2009, 06:27:20 PM
:cloud9: Oh, I don't know about that Anne........I have seen videos of him saying "the Holy Quran says", more than once, and it is a fact that he placed Muslims in positions of national security posts, which to me is a lot like putting the fox in charge of the hen house. And the "holy" Quran basically says the end justifies the means, and if you have to lie or whatever to get what you want, then that's ok. My  :2c: Blessings....

I think the Quran may be a holy book.   I couldn't really say for sure, I've never actually read it.   
I think God is the God of Christians, Muslims, and Jews.  It seems very wrong to me for a Christian to hate people who are not of their faith or to condemn them.
Perhaps you just don't quite understand the big picture, Cardinal.   Concentrate on the teachings of Christ.  Are you willing to lay down your life as Christ did?

Anne

Quote from: Raggedy Anne on November 22, 2009, 06:17:12 PM
Obama has stated plainly that he is a Christian.

QuoteBush, who claimed to be a Christian was a very openly ungodly leader.

What did Obama really do sofar? Besides words?

QuoteDo you really think God intends for the Christians to wipe out 2 Billion Muslims with swords?

Did any president do that?

QuoteI don't get the hatred against this man.  I think it is a product of fear.

I think it's a product of a sound mind. I simply don't trust him. Neither I did trust Bush, Clinton, etc Neither do I trust the clowns that are in charge where I live.

QuoteBut you took his word for it that he was born again just because he named the name of Jesus.

I think he and Obama should be judged by their fruits. Bush has proved his fruits were of war and deceit. From the short period Obama is in charge I can say no different. Yes if he withdraws all/the vast majority of US troops I see fruits of peace. But personally I wouldn't be the least suprised he adds Iran to the war list.

QuoteOh well.  There are none so blind as those who cannot see.  And those who walk in a spirit of fear.

Or those who got drunk by the wine... :bigGrin:

Quote from: Cardinal on November 22, 2009, 05:46:28 PM
:cloud9: Well, WWJD? Can you see Him praying for physical enemies to be destroyed? Our enemies are not carnal but spiritual. What controls Obama is not physical but spiritual; and if he really is a Muslim, which I have read in several articles that he is (from conversations in speeches), then we are dealing most likely with a prince of darkness over that religion, instead of your "garden variety" evil spirits. In which case, prayer and the anointing of Christ, is the only weapon we have.

I can tell you from personal experience dealing with what came at me over the salvation of the first one in a family that had not received Christ in nearly 2000 years, the rulers of darkness in that religion are particularly nasty and were it not for Christ and His anointing, I wouldn't be here today to talk about it.

Unrighteous prayers are those against His perfect will; which is why the Spirit is supposed to pray for us, cause we know not what we should pray. So what I do, if I don't know how to pray because the Spirit has not instructed me, I just pray for His perfect will to be done in whosever's life, and consider it lined up with His will, whatever that might be.

The reason we are told to pray for our enemies, so that coals will be put upon their heads, is because Pentecost is as what happened on Sinai, and on Sinai there were coals of fire. So basically He is telling us to pray them into the Kingdom and His covenant. Which basically is "taking the land" (their flesh), which we as believers have a right to do, ie. claim it for the Kingdom. Blessings....

Thanks, Cardinal.

Quote from: raggedyanneBush, who claimed to be a Christian was a very openly ungodly leader.   But you took his word for it that he was born again just because he named the name of Jesus.  That is the problem with the far right - they just don't see their blatant hypocrisy.  They think that only Republicans are TRUE believers.  Yet the Republican party has gone over the edge of the cliff - they're mad!  

Not a bad observation.  Satan deceives the whole world, remember?

QuoteDo you really think God intends for the Christians to wipe out 2 Billion Muslims with swords?

Absolutely not.

Quote from: Raggedy Anne on November 22, 2009, 06:45:33 PM
I think the Quran may be a holy book.   I couldn't really say for sure, I've never actually read it.    
I think God is the God of Christians, Muslims, and Jews.  It seems very wrong to me for a Christian to hate people who are not of their faith or to condemn them.
Perhaps you just don't quite understand the big picture, Cardinal.   Concentrate on the teachings of Christ.  Are you willing to lay down your life as Christ did?

Anne

:cloud9: I have read some excerpts out of it, and it is definitely not holy, not HS inspired. Just it's inception, which I read about from a PRO Muslim source is enough to show it was not from God.

An angel appeared to him in a cave, with a banner, with the words on it and told him to write them down. Three times he failed to do this, and three times the angel hit him for his disobedience, before Muhammad mentioned to the "angel" he was illiterate. Seems to me an angel of God would have been instructed differently, assuming of course, there was an angel to begin with.

I also read that one of his underage forced child brides said something to the effect of, "I see you have found a religion to accommodate your sin," ie. child molestation and rape.

Muhammad was aware of Jesus being taken from them in a cloud, and therefore he too "ascended" into heaven from Jerusalem. Seems he forgot the part about flesh and blood cannot enter the Kingdom of God. That he and his doctrine of devils is a usurper and counterfeit, should be obvious.

And I don't hate them; if I hated them I would relegate them to remain in ignorance of the Word of the one true God and His Son who died for them as well. If I hated them, I could espouse a false love, ie. the "mantra chant" of the New Age, which is that all paths lead to God, sort of a "I'm Ok, you're Ok", type of doctrine that eliminates the need for the righteousness of the Son.

God is forgiving of our ignorance in trying other paths, but the baptism of John in water, was for REPENTANCE from dead works (other paths), which is why it came before the baptism in the Spirit (where the living HG does the works), and why Jesus told John that it was necessary to fulfill ALL righteousness.

As for laying my life down; anyone that continues in the Word and exchanges what THEY think, for what HE thinks, is laying down their soulish lives, little by little. What I hate about it, is that it takes so long. Many times I have asked Him to just "kill" me now, ie. deliver me of all the tares at once and get it over with, if it meant HE could come in full power and get things here straightened out.

One of the times I did that, He told me He couldn't do that, because if He took everything out of us that was not of Him (in all of us) all at once, we would DIE from the shock of it (don't remove the tares until it's time or you will hurt the wheat?). So plodding along here.........day by day...........Blessings.....

Well, Cardinal,

If the Christians are going to demand that the Muslims convert, and the Muslims, who obviously believe there is only One Most High God are going to demand that the Christians convert, and the Jews believe that they are the chosen ones, then I guess we are all going to have to kill one another.  It sure looks like it.  Blessed are those who are not afraid of death.

Anne

 :cloud9: Yeah, it sure does..........but that's why we pray and await His full manifestation in His body, because in the natural there is NO hope. Blessings.....

Quote from: Cardinal on November 22, 2009, 07:54:14 PM
:cloud9: Yeah, it sure does..........but that's why we pray and await His full manifestation in His body, because in the natural there is NO hope. Blessings.....

A Hard Road before Them
16"Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves.
17"But beware of men, for they will hand you over to the courts and scourge you in their synagogues;

18and you will even be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles.

19"But when they hand you over, do not worry about how or what you are to say; for it will be given you in that hour what you are to say.

20"For it is not you who speak, but it is the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you.

21"Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death.

22"You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved.

23"But whenever they persecute you in one city, flee to the next; for truly I say to you, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes.

The Meaning of Discipleship
24"A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a slave above his master.
25"It is enough for the disciple that he become like his teacher, and the slave like his master. If they have called the head of the house Beelzebul, how much more will they malign the members of his household!

26"Therefore do not fear them, for there is nothing concealed that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known.

27"What I tell you in the darkness, speak in the light; and what you hear whispered in your ear, proclaim upon the housetops.

28"Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

29"Are not two sparrows sold for a cent? And yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father.

30"But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.

31"So do not fear; you are more valuable than many sparrows.

32"Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven.

33"But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.

34"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.  

35"For I came to SET A MAN AGAINST HIS FATHER, AND A DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER, AND A DAUGHTER-IN-LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER-IN-LAW;

36and A MAN'S ENEMIES WILL BE THE MEMBERS OF HIS HOUSEHOLD.

37"He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.

38"And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.

39"He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.

The Reward of Service
40"He who receives you receives Me, and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me.
41"He who receives a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he who receives a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward.

42"And whoever in the name of a disciple gives to one of these little ones even a cup of cold water to drink, truly I say to you, he shall not lose his reward."


amen   sister Card  :icon_flower:

 thought of  Matt 10  sooooooooooo  true ............. :HeartThrob:
 

Well, Rose, it sounds like you are implying that one must hate Muslims in order to please Jesus.  I don't believe that.   He who hates his brother does not have the love of God abiding in himself.

Anne

When the muslims see Jesus, they will fall in love, just like everybody else does who sees him.

Quote from: Raggedy Anne on November 22, 2009, 08:09:38 PM
Well, Rose, it sounds like you are implying that one must hate Muslims in order to please Jesus.  I don't believe that.   He who hates his brother does not have the love of God abiding in himself.

Anne

Anne
  It is what Jesus says not me  , when reading Matt ten it up to the reader and His Holy Spirit   to discern
  I hate no one   sis  and I do not know a living soul  that has ever been on the face of the earth that does not need the mercy of God and His Son  :sigh:
 

But  to Know Him is to LOVE HIM .... :HeartThrob:

Quote from: Molly on November 22, 2009, 08:13:09 PM
When the muslims see Jesus, they will fall in love, just like everybody else does who sees him.

When you see Christ in every person, then you will understand the love of God.  How can the Muslims see Jesus in you if you hate them?

Christ in you, your hope of glory.....

Anne

Rose,

I'm tired of excuses given by professing Christians for spreading hatred in the world.   
How can any person even be alive and breathing without the Holy Spirit?  They cannot. 
We were reconciled to God BEFORE WE KNEW OF HIS LOVE, so is everyone else. 
It is high time people believed that.  Salvation is by GRACE, not of WORKS, lest any man should boast.

Anne

Quote from: Raggedy Anne on November 22, 2009, 08:18:25 PM

Quote from: Molly on November 22, 2009, 08:13:09 PM
When the muslims see Jesus, they will fall in love, just like everybody else does who sees him.

When you see Christ in every person, then you will understand the love of God.  How can the Muslims see Jesus in you if you hate them?

Anne

Amen, that's what it's about.


Any type of fear will ultimately lead to anger, which in turn, will lead to hatred, which in turn will lead to violence.

I am kind of sensing a bit of fearmongering in this thread.
So, all the fear stuff... is pretty much going in one ear and out the other.
I'm just really not into fear.

I think we need to be into LOVE.

Every knee will bow..
See people through the eyes of that truth.
peace.

I think Yoda said it best....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yY3m9RWMNA

Quote from: Raggedy Anne on November 22, 2009, 08:22:45 PM
Rose,

I'm tired of excuses given by professing Christians for spreading hatred in the world.  
How can any person even be alive and breathing without the Holy Spirit?  They cannot.  
We were reconciled to God BEFORE WE KNEW OF HIS LOVE, so is everyone else.  
It is high time people believed that.  Salvation is by GRACE, not of WORKS, lest any man should boast.

Anne

the Thing is Anne  , If and I do mean If    you Love God first and your neighbour as yourself  

 you are keeping the command of God  ,, this is spiritual and it is good
 but

 I do hate the flesh and all thats in it  :thumbdown:

 learning to know the difference .........   you  can tell them or you can show them   which do you think will matter most to God the righteous Judge  of all His creation    ?   :HeartThrob:

To allow Anne's original discussion to get back on track, another thread has been split off to here;

http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?topic=7357.msg84088#msg84088

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=tCAffMSWSzY#t=28 (http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=tCAffMSWSzY#t=28)

Quote from: Raggedy Anne on November 22, 2009, 07:48:15 PM
If the Christians are going to demand that the Muslims convert, and the Muslims, who obviously believe there is only One Most High God are going to demand that the Christians convert, and the Jews believe that they are the chosen ones, then I guess we are all going to have to kill one another.  It sure looks like it.  Blessed are those who are not afraid of death.

Anne, I think you're right...this is exactly Satan's plan, that all monotheistic religions "take each other out"...it happened during the middle ages in the middle east, and it seems like its happening again...

some here are afraid that Obama is a Muslim...is nobody here "afraid" that he prays at the wall of the temple of Herod?
just wondering...

Quote from: Raggedy Anne on November 22, 2009, 07:48:15 PM
Well, Cardinal,

If the Christians are going to demand that the Muslims convert, and the Muslims, who obviously believe there is only One Most High God are going to demand that the Christians convert, and the Jews believe that they are the chosen ones, then I guess we are all going to have to kill one another.  It sure looks like it.  Blessed are those who are not afraid of death.

Anne

"God's" People have always been taught to NOT use carnal weapons.
Just because families have been disfunctional from the beginning,
does not say that it is good.  It is like "divorce." NOT good from the
beginning....

This is the "world"  The "world" is under the "curse."
But the way to get out of it, is to follow Jesus.........


FEAR not, "little" flock.

Quote from: Raggedy Anne on November 23, 2009, 06:15:05 AM
On this day, 46 years ago, when I was a mere 8 months old, President John F. Kennedy was assassinated, most likely by a combination of the MOB and the CIA.   I do pray that President Obama's enemies be scattered and be brought to nothing.

Anne taken from another thread split from this one

I just happened to be on another forum and a link lead to a website that led to this  vile monstrosity (http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/gospel-hate-arizona-pastor-steve-and)

I think it's par for the course that most countries in the world have a corrupt and mostly unlikeable president running it, it seems to be a worldwide conspiracy/agenda, however reading from the link I posted is enough to actually make one truly want to really love one's enemies

Well, for those who advocate stoning to death of gays and lesbians, I suggest you move to somewhere like Iran or Saudi Arabia because they definitely do NOT tolerate gays there.  But in the beloved Israel, they do not kill gays.  So then, these preachers remind me of the Taliban and the Muslim fundamentalists - they really have a lot in common in the things that they despise.   I can't tell much difference at all between fundamentalist Christians and fundamentalist Muslims -- I find them both vile.  There are probably some ultra religious Jews like that too - I just have not read about them.


p.s. Shadow, I read as much of that page as I could stomach.  It made me want to throw up.   I do not trust or fellowship with religious people who have a hateful spirit like that.

  Sin is sin, all steming from the carnal mind of flesh ..

   all flesh is judged as  nothing /vanity .
  we should by now be so full of the Spirit there is no more  room for the flesh to remain  :HeartThrob:
   pity and compassion and strong remorse for those whom still  battle in the flesh realm of thoughts :sigh:
  it is a place of regret , death and  guilt to this very day  :mblush:

   for those in the Spirit faithful  Jesus is victorious


Mat 12:20 A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory. 

 
1Cr 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 


 
1Cr 15:57 But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.   


1Jo 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that overcomes the world, [even] our faith.


Rev 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, [and] over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.     :HeartThrob:

Quote from: Raggedy Annep.s. Shadow, I read as much of that page as I could stomach.  It made me want to throw up.   I do not trust or fellowship with religious people who have a hateful spirit like that.

It brings back memories of how I ended up on this site, it was coming across the vile mindset of rampant hardcore fundamentalist bigots, not unlike this one early last year, I almost thought I was trapped in a nightmare I couldn't escape from, I couldn't believe what I was reading at the time (which led to many questions and a near nervous breakdown), I'm more equipped to see such things now, it has been a real education, getting a glimpse
into the darkened minds of some individuals that profess to know God

Anyway the main reason I posted the link was because of Obama, but I suppose it mirrors the mindset of many that share that viewpoint

The thing is learning how to love and pray for, and learning how to accept odious hateful morons such as that preacher

Bush & Co. would have had these kind of people arrested in a New York minute.  After all, he would not even
allow Code Pink T-Shirts worn by the anti-war groups to be displayed anywhere near his presence.  I hope these people
wind up in jail for threatening to assassinate the President.

That the right wing is selling t-shirts telling people to "Pray for Obama" by reciting Psalm 109:8 is
just another veiled reference at praying for his death. Scary stuff. Ron Reagan spoke with author
Frank Schaeffer about a new meme that Frank says is "trolling for assassins."
http://airamerica.com/theronreaganshow/blog/11-20-2009/listen-t-shirt-wants-kill-barack-obama/

Quote from: Raggedy Anne on November 23, 2009, 06:03:52 PM
I can't tell much difference at all between fundamentalist Christians and fundamentalist Muslims -- I find them both vile.  There are probably some ultra religious Jews like that too - I just have not read about them.

I posted something that you objected to, showing exactly what you "have not read about", you've asked for it to be removed from this site.
Fundamental Jews hates EVERYONE except themselves...but I'm not trying to divert attention away from this thread, just thought I'd mention it...any fundamentalism is dangerous, no matter from what religion or culture it comes from...like making war, that is fundamentalism to the extreme

I hope the prayers are working, for Obama is gathering his war council to decide on another "surge" in Afghanistan...may God help us...especially the people of Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Somalia, Sudan, Yemen, Palestine, Lebanon, Iran, Israel...and for the American families who's going to lose a father/mother/husband/wife/son/daughter...

Quote from: noname on November 24, 2009, 09:49:49 AM

Quote from: Raggedy Anne on November 23, 2009, 06:03:52 PM
I can't tell much difference at all between fundamentalist Christians and fundamentalist Muslims -- I find them both vile.  There are probably some ultra religious Jews like that too - I just have not read about them.

I posted something that you objected to, showing exactly what you "have not read about", you've asked for it to be removed from this site.
Fundamental Jews hates EVERYONE except themselves...but I'm not trying to divert attention away from this thread, just thought I'd mention it...any fundamentalism is dangerous, no matter from what religion or culture it comes from...like making war, that is fundamentalism to the extreme

I hope the prayers are working, for Obama is gathering his war council to decide on another "surge" in Afghanistan...may God help us...especially the people of Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Somalia, Sudan, Yemen, Palestine, Lebanon, Iran, Israel...and for the American families who's going to lose a father/mother/husband/wife/son/daughter...

Noname -

You hope Obama is killed?  You think that will bring peace?  Is that what you are saying?

Anne

?huh? :mshock:
I know eeengleesh is not my first language...but how did you get to that deduction that I hope Obama gets killed?
from my posts you should know by now that I detest ALL violence and killing...even of perceived "enemies"...if I call myself a Christian and I am for war, I'd be a hypocrite...for our Lord has clearly stated that we should love our enemies

what I'm saying is that I hope the prayers for Obama is working to turn his heart towards God..."for those who live by the sword will die by the sword"...and I hope he decides NOT to send another 20,000 troops to Afghanistan to go and kill more Afghans and Pakistanis and Americans...is this more clear now?

Quote from: noname on November 24, 2009, 03:13:33 PM
?huh? :mshock:
I know eeengleesh is not my first language...but how did you get to that deduction that I hope Obama gets killed?
from my posts you should know by now that I detest ALL violence and killing...even of perceived "enemies"...if I call myself a Christian and I am for war, I'd be a hypocrite...for our Lord has clearly stated that we should love our enemies

what I'm saying is that I hope the prayers for Obama is working to turn his heart towards God..."for those who live by the sword will die by the sword"...and I hope he decides NOT to send another 20,000 troops to Afghanistan to go and kill more Afghans and Pakistanis and Americans...is this more clear now?

Yes, it is more clear now.  However, we had previously been discussing those "Christians" who are praying for God to kill him.   And I thought you were saying you hope those prayers are answered.

Quote from: Raggedy Anne on November 24, 2009, 03:47:02 PM

Quote from: noname on November 24, 2009, 03:13:33 PM
?huh? :mshock:
I know eeengleesh is not my first language...but how did you get to that deduction that I hope Obama gets killed?
from my posts you should know by now that I detest ALL violence and killing...even of perceived "enemies"...if I call myself a Christian and I am for war, I'd be a hypocrite...for our Lord has clearly stated that we should love our enemies

what I'm saying is that I hope the prayers for Obama is working to turn his heart towards God..."for those who live by the sword will die by the sword"...and I hope he decides NOT to send another 20,000 troops to Afghanistan to go and kill more Afghans and Pakistanis and Americans...is this more clear now?

Yes, it is more clear now.  However, we had previously been discussing those "Christians" who are praying for God to kill him.   And I thought you were saying you hope those prayers are answered.

I still do not see how you could've made this assumption that I am part of that group...this is a real slap in the face i reckon :mshock:

Quote from: raggedy anneI hope these people
wind up in jail for threatening to assassinate the President.

That's pretty chilling.  So now we are going to start persecuting the Christians by accusing them of things they are not doing?  Even the secret service guy I saw interviewed on FOX news didn't think that was the case.  And, he's trained to assess 'threats.'

Quote from: Molly on November 24, 2009, 04:13:33 PM

Quote from: raggedy anneI hope these people
wind up in jail for threatening to assassinate the President.

That's pretty chilling.  So now we are going to start persecuting the Christians by accusing them of things they are not doing?  Even the secret service guy I saw interviewed on FOX news didn't think that was the case.  And, he's trained to assess 'threats.'

It would be fine with me if those who are threatening the life of the President spend some time in jail.   But I will let the secret service decide who goes too far. 
There are also plenty of war criminals from the last administration who should be locked up for crimes against humanity.  But as you may recall, Gary has requested we stop this kind of discussion.  So let's let it rest.

Anne

Quote from: noname on November 24, 2009, 03:51:50 PM

Quote from: Raggedy Anne on November 24, 2009, 03:47:02 PM

Quote from: noname on November 24, 2009, 03:13:33 PM
?huh? :mshock:
I know eeengleesh is not my first language...but how did you get to that deduction that I hope Obama gets killed?
from my posts you should know by now that I detest ALL violence and killing...even of perceived "enemies"...if I call myself a Christian and I am for war, I'd be a hypocrite...for our Lord has clearly stated that we should love our enemies

what I'm saying is that I hope the prayers for Obama is working to turn his heart towards God..."for those who live by the sword will die by the sword"...and I hope he decides NOT to send another 20,000 troops to Afghanistan to go and kill more Afghans and Pakistanis and Americans...is this more clear now?

Yes, it is more clear now.  However, we had previously been discussing those "Christians" who are praying for God to kill him.   And I thought you were saying you hope those prayers are answered.

I still do not see how you could've made this assumption that I am part of that group...this is a real slap in the face i reckon :mshock:

Because you have been on here blasting Obama every chance you get, that's why I thought you were among his detractors.   I suppose some people think they can have it both ways.  I amazed that you feel slapped in the face.   I think some people have an imaginary sense of being persecuted.

Anne

Quote from: Noname
I posted something that you objected to, showing exactly what you "have not read about", you've asked for it to be removed from this site.
Fundamental Jews hates EVERYONE except themselves...but I'm not trying to divert attention away from this thread, just thought I'd mention it...

The thing you refer to was a very anti-Jewish article.  It was inappropriate and likely to offend some people.   I understand your frustration with the Israeli military, but you shouldn't scapegoat any particular group of people - practically the entire world is in flames and trying to put the blame on various ethnic or nationalistic groups is not going to stop the madness. 

Anne

Quote from: raggedy anneBecause you have been on here blasting Obama every chance you get, that's why I thought you were among his detractors.   I suppose some people think they can have it both ways.  I amazed that you feel slapped in the face.   I think some people have an imaginary sense of being persecuted.

Anne

Wait a minute.  Detractors=killers?  We have a long history in this country of dissent.  Code pink covered their hands with blood [or red paint?] and smeared it on the face of condi.  Does that make them killers?  Shall we condemn code pink for not liking the last administration?  Throw them in jail for speaking out against it?

Let's not for one minute think we should ever silent dissent in this country OR freedom of speech.  Or make laws against it.   Free speech was so important to our founders it was placed as number one on our Bill of Rights.

I think the Tentmaker Secret Service should lock this thread since Gary asked us not to argue about politics.

ROFL

Four pages Long..now YOU decide.

your funny Anne :laughing7:

Quote from: Raggedy Anne on November 24, 2009, 04:58:55 PM

Quote from: noname on November 24, 2009, 03:51:50 PM

Quote from: Raggedy Anne on November 24, 2009, 03:47:02 PM

Quote from: noname on November 24, 2009, 03:13:33 PM
?huh? :mshock:
I know eeengleesh is not my first language...but how did you get to that deduction that I hope Obama gets killed?
from my posts you should know by now that I detest ALL violence and killing...even of perceived "enemies"...if I call myself a Christian and I am for war, I'd be a hypocrite...for our Lord has clearly stated that we should love our enemies

what I'm saying is that I hope the prayers for Obama is working to turn his heart towards God..."for those who live by the sword will die by the sword"...and I hope he decides NOT to send another 20,000 troops to Afghanistan to go and kill more Afghans and Pakistanis and Americans...is this more clear now?

Yes, it is more clear now.  However, we had previously been discussing those "Christians" who are praying for God to kill him.   And I thought you were saying you hope those prayers are answered.

I still do not see how you could've made this assumption that I am part of that group...this is a real slap in the face i reckon :mshock:

Because you have been on here blasting Obama every chance you get, that's why I thought you were among his detractors.   I suppose some people think they can have it both ways.  I amazed that you feel slapped in the face.   I think some people have an imaginary sense of being persecuted.

Anne

I s'pose most people would feel slapped in the face when someone accuses them of wanting to kill someone else...

Quote from: Raggedy Anne on November 24, 2009, 05:05:20 PM

Quote from: Noname
I posted something that you objected to, showing exactly what you "have not read about", you've asked for it to be removed from this site.
Fundamental Jews hates EVERYONE except themselves...but I'm not trying to divert attention away from this thread, just thought I'd mention it...

The thing you refer to was a very anti-Jewish article.  It was inappropriate and likely to offend some people.   I understand your frustration with the Israeli military, but you shouldn't scapegoat any particular group of people - practically the entire world is in flames and trying to put the blame on various ethnic or nationalistic groups is not going to stop the madness. 

Anne

this just proves that you haven't read the article have you?...the article was about a Jewish rabbi giving the ok to kill anyone else that is not Jewish...and you state that the article was anti-Jewish?
these are the same people the a big part of the "Christian church" is supporting...

   

   Love often when suffering pain or jealousy turns to anger.

   Man's wrath does not work righteousness[God's does]

   ...then ..like a lion with a painful thorn....a man goes about

  roaring over the situation and is wrathful. The flesh around the

wound becomes imflammed and 'proud'. Sometimes God does

remove the thorn in your flesh..and sometimes He does not.


   He may choose to say,'my grace is sufficient unto thee"

  or He may send forth angels to bundle up the tares[briars and


thorns] and burn them.


   Now, if He should appoint someone to remove it,from you

he would them pour wine and oil on it[your wound] and bind up

the wound of His people.


   All of us are suceptible to this...the jews were jealous over

God and that jealousy led to their anger and wrath,which did

not work the righteousness of God[condemned an innocent man]

and rejecting the Christ,they found themselves cut off for a

time.

   Do not let the love of Christ and mankind turn into anger

in you because of "pain" or "jealousy"  Whether it be pain of

rejection,pain of heart for suffering injustices[and the injustices

you witness in the world] do not roar at God or your fellowman.


   For WE KNOW SATAN'S TIME IS SHORT AND WE KNOW

FATHER'S WILL TO SAVE ALL MANKIND

AND THAT THE TIME WILL COME WHEN SUCH THINGS ARE

BUNDLED AND BURNED AWAY

AND WE KNOW THAT WHAT SEEM'S IMPOSSIBLE WITH MAN IS

POSSIBLE WITH GOD.  AND HE HIMSELF WILL BIND UP THE

WOUND OF HIS PEOPLE AND THE WRATH OF GOD DOES WORK

RIGHTEOUNESS. HE HUMBLES THE PROUD AND LIFTS UP THE

LOWLY. IT IS THE SPIRIT OF GOD THAT WILL ACCOMPLISH ALL

OF THIS.

   AND,SO, REMAIN IN HIS LOVE


   In reality the law produces wrath,be saved through Him from

wrath[Romans 5;9]

    Go to Him and pour out your heart to Him..your pain and

wound of spirit of living in such a place were evil is so rampant.

  Let HIM comfort you,may He comfort your heart

[1Cor 1;4

....we wereunder great pressure,far beyond our abilty to endure,

so that we despaired even of life.Indeed in our hearts we felt

the sentence of death. BUT THIS HAPPENED that we might not

rely on ourselves but on God,who raises the dead.


  Luke 21;26  Men will faint from terror,apprehensive of what is

coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken

At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud,

with power and great glory.When these things begin to take

place,stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption

is drawing near.

  WOW !   Great to hear this  , this morning Sis ! :HeartThrob:
 there is  a cut on a stallion  called   ''proud cut '' and or " proud flesh "   that causes the horse to act mad  and unable to  calm   in any manner  though he has been "castrated "  like circumscision of the heart in man

proud flesh (proud)
n.
The swollen flesh that surrounds a healing wound, caused by excessive granulation.

proud cut  , a gelding that still acts stallion  :mblush:
 there is warring in our own members  of the body  that does rebel against the mind / heart of Christ ..

  made  "perfect" sense   to me    all things are possible   with God ..:thumbsup:

 :cloud9: Amen Sheila and rosie......good to see you this morning.......

Good Word Sheila... :icon_flower:
Hi Rosey, Hi Card. :icon_flower: :icon_flower:
:HeartThrob:

Quote from: Taffy on November 25, 2009, 06:21:43 PM
Good Word Sheila... :icon_flower:
Hi Rosey, Hi Card. :icon_flower: :icon_flower:
:HeartThrob:

  Hey Bro T , how you doing this morning ?

    hope you are  doing   very well , today , :HeartThrob:

seems like the prayers aren't working...mr.peace is sending another 40,000 killers to the ME...or maybe i was mistaken...was this what the prayers were for?

happy thanksgiving :thumbsup:

Quote from: noname on November 27, 2009, 09:55:34 AM
seems like the prayers aren't working...mr.peace is sending another 40,000 killers to the ME...

I know, noname, most disappointing! :sigh:  Nevertheless, "Mr Peace" and all of my US leaders and our Troops and the people of the ME remain in my prayers.  If we ever needed God's wisdom, forgiveness, protection and guidance it is now. :thumbsup:

In His Love, John :HeartThrob:

"The Trilogy of Dollars; Economics, Politics and Religion ."

History seems to repeat itself. IAEA has 'proof' Iran is working on nuclear weapons. You know the kinda stuff the previous President of Peace called weapons of mass destruction.
I won't be supprised if Barack Peace Obama starts bringing democracy in Iran.

(http://coat.ncf.ca/ARMX/cansec/democracy-will-come-to-you.jpg)

John, Peacemaker & WhiteWings...couldn't have said it better

Today I did read a short newspaper article that was entitled "Bin Laden could have been captured in 2001"
Two important sentences from that article.
#1: "The reason he wasn't caught was because the US used untrained 'local soldiers' and air strikes, but US ground forces would have done the trick."

#2: "The conclusion from that report is strong support for Obama to increase troops to catch Taliban."

WW:
Replace the word "democracy" in that poster with "Jesus" and voilà! You have instant ET! (just add some "but-he-loves-you" sugar).

Democracy, btw, I am more and more convinced has never existed (except in people's minds of course). When ever in history has a country's leader allowed his people to decide who will rule next??? DON'T THINK SO!!

Sorry, just my  :2c:!
Ciao from Italy to all,
Brian

Quote from: whyiloveitaly on December 01, 2009, 11:02:30 PMReplace the word "democracy" in that poster with "Jesus" and voilà! You have instant ET!

:thumbsup:

QuoteDemocracy, btw, I am more and more convinced has never existed

It has existed and still does IMO.
But not in a pure form. And it gets less pure each year :sigh:
People have a certain amount of influence.
We also have to be honest at outselfs. People would vote for zero taxes but still would ask the government of all kind of things.

WW:
what's even scarier is this:

You can vote even if you know NOTHING about the candidate!!!!!!!!! (And how many people out of 1,000 have done SERIOUS study about the candidates before voting??) And I'm supposed to think that the heads of government are going to let people who are completely ignorant about them VOTE??????????????

The Mpls Star Tribune (my hometown paper) on Sundays weighs about 5 lbs.
How many pages are dedicated to things happening outside the US? 2-3!

Blessings,
Brian

wili,

His plans can also be known by looking at the ones that are suggeted as ministers and advisors. Al Gore....
Or has he puppy or a pitbull on his team for defense. Etc

QuoteYou can vote even if you know NOTHING about the candidate!!!!!!!!!

Voting exams :winkgrin:

The system is different here. When I vote I hardly look/listen to the campaigns.
I look back what they actually did in the past 4 year, not what they are promissing now. And usually that doesn't require deep study.

But political memory seems to be very short. Was the voting in the state Obama was senator significantly different from the average of all states?

AL Gore????????? Money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Man made global warming????????
equals more regulations = more money!!!!!!!

It is a wonder Obama can even begin to do
anything with everything under the sun coming about at once, 1. The Climate change summit, 2. Health care, 3. the economic meltdown, 4. wars and talk (rumors) of more wars, 5. Being the worlds policeman when we need to clean corruption out of our own country and government, 6. The phoney war on drugs, a front for more money making scams, 7. Financial difficulties caring for the elderly, Retirement and the elderly senior citizens. 8. Infastructure of Utility power grids, electric and such, 9. The department of transportation, overloaded sky ways & airports, over crowded roadways and worn out old bridges and railways in ill repair. 10. International relations and policies need cleaned up and much improved over the poor excuse we have for Foriegn relations now.    There is more that can be said, this is just a general list of things Presidents are expected to address and try working toward positive repairs and changes.
Personaly I certainly wouldn't want the job of President even with the temporary worldly power that comes with it.

Fire Walker   

but in "Yeswecanistan"...all you need is Hope...right?

No. A blindfold

Quote from: WhiteWings on December 01, 2009, 11:16:45 PM

Quote from: whyiloveitaly on December 01, 2009, 11:02:30 PMReplace the word "democracy" in that poster with "Jesus" and voilà! You have instant ET!

:thumbsup:

QuoteDemocracy, btw, I am more and more convinced has never existed

It has existed and still does IMO.
But not in a pure form. And it gets less pure each year :sigh:
People have a certain amount of influence.
We also have to be honest at outselfs. People would vote for zero taxes but still would ask the government of all kind of things.

Why do people keep trying to call the USA a democracy?  We are a republic.  We do not democratically elect our President, the electoral college elects him.  We have some democratic principles and ways of doing things, but we are not a democracy.  Democracy would mean whatever the majority wants becomes the rules.  A republic is based on rule of law.  Unfortunately, we are becoming more democratic in some ways, with "popular opinion" (as reported, or spun) helping create laws totally out of line with our Constitution, the supreme law of the land.

...


First time I've been in here in about two weeks.  I see yall been praying
"for" Obama.  Don't have time to read all the post, but wanted to join
in the praying "for'' Obama.

The reason I say that is because before I got any interest at all in
politics, you can ask Anne Hamon, ha......well, anyway, I was sitting
on the side of my bed one day and I could ''hear'' the Spirit in me,
I myself was quiet as a mouse, but I heard the Wind blowing.....a Word. I heard the Wind saying "I am going to 'shake' ........not only
religiously, but politically."

Now, me never being much for politics, this got my attention because
of it, I started watching the 'then' campaign, that went all the way
to McCain choosing a running mate that he had ''never'' met.  I bout
flipped when I heard that.ha
Well, I guess McCain knows Ms. Palin a little more now. ha



Now, I have nothing to say more about politics, but as I was watching
the other man keep repeating "YES, we CAN>" I could  not help but
recognize that as a statement of ''faith.'

  I began to observe Obama and I began to like him because of what
I could see by the Spirit.  I knew here was a person who had
overcome many things in his own personal life and I had to respect
''that.'

I don't still understand politics, all I can know about it the Lord has
to tell me, but

I promised the Lord then and there, that I would "pray" FOR
this man...........and I do, and I will.

I have observed since then many ugly things being written about 'him'
personally, they say it is political, but that is exactly why I don't
like politics.

So I continue to pray FOR not against Obama..........