Once Saved Always Saved?

[Seth]

What I mean is this:  Sometimes people do not walk in the light.  So in that case, will they got to the lake of fire (a type of purging fire according to universalists)?  Bible verses like the "branches being burned", "the watchman waiting for his master", seem to indicate this.

Here is what I believe that fire is:

Isaiah 9
17 For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still. 18For wickedness burns as the fire: it shall devour the briers and thorns, and shall kindle the thickets of the forest, and they shall mount up like the rising of smoke.

19Through the wrath of the LORD of hosts is the land burned, and the people shall be as the fuel for the fire: no man shall spare his brother. 20And he shall snatch on the right hand, and be hungry; and he shall devour on the left hand, and they shall not be satisfied: they shall eat every man the flesh of his own arm

I do believe that this "fire" is a purging fire as in the case of the Prodigal Son. He devoured himself in that fire so much that he remembered his father and returned to his place. But that is definitely not a fire I want to have a part in. Our own sin is like a fire, and will consume us as briers and thorns and the smoke of our torment rises as a column. But it is a torment we cause to come upon ourselves through our own actions. That inner pain is the result of sin and God allows it to bring us to a place of humility.

[FreeAtLast]

These are the commandments John is referring to:

1 John 3:23
And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.

These are his commands:

1) Believe in the name of the Son, Jesus Christ.
2) Love one another as he commanded us

In context, those are the commandments John is talking about. If you do both those things, you will automatically not covet, honor your mother and father etc, but not because you are under the Law of Moses. It will be because you love one another, without the Law.

Nobody is made righteous by following moral codes (commandments contained in ordinances) any more than they are made righteous by following ceremonial codes or keeping days, or diverse washings etc. One can made into the image of Christ without following codes. Follow the Spirit and all things will be added to you.

Hello Seth

you are right by loving one another
you have left off the other one though that states to love yah with all your being--these 2 are the 2 great commandments

Seth you are mis-understanding me friend--Righteousness comes through Yahshua(not the keeping of ordinances)

But John said we also ought to walk as Yahshua walked on this earth and taught his disciples so--did he keep all the Sabbaths(Yes)--Did he ever eat any thing unclean(No)

If Yahshua did these things and taught his disciples to do these things---should we follow in the master's footsteps ?

Loving your neighbor and Yah--you will be keeping the 10 commandments by LOVE--the 2 commandments that Yahshua commanded said that prophets and law hang upon.

you cant help but to be observing the 10 if you are keeping the 2 commandments of LOVE  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

on a side note--since im of the preterist (end time teaching)the only Sabbath that I do believe should still be observed and kept Holy is the weekly Sabbath(a very special day set aside by the father)

but if you are still of them that are Futurists(future return) then in the days of the new testament when Yahshua still had not returned---they were keeping ALL of the Sabbaths--because they had special meaning and were shadows concerning Yahshua and the fulfillment of all things.

Its all about LOVE--first that he LOVED us---then that we LOVE Him and our neighbor  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[Seth]

But John said we also ought to walk as Yahshua walked on this earth and taught his disciples so--did he keep all the Sabbaths(Yes)--Did he ever eat any thing unclean(No)

If Yahshua did these things and taught his disciples to do these things---should we follow in the master's footsteps ?

Actually, yes we should do these things, but not the same way. Jesus said "Take up your cross and follow me." Well, if so, you should be dead right now. You should be hung up on a literal cross and be all bloody and die after three days.

Or....

There is a spiritual way to do the earthy things that Jesus did, like die on the cross. We can sacrifice ourselves SPIRITUALLY rather than Physically. We can recognize that Jesus is our rest, and so every day we walk with him, we are already observing the Sabbath. We can be circumcised in the heart, rather than the flesh (Jesus was no doubt physically circumcised, but we don't have to be).

We can walk on water, and even if we cannot do so physically, we can always walk according to the Spirit.

[Jason76]

It's like this:  Let's say I was a back-slider.  If I died in a car wreck, and I was involved in terrible sin without recent repentance, then would I go to the "Universalist type Lake of Fire"?

[sheila]

 the reap what you sow.....bind up the tares for burning...........reminds me so

  much of 'you made your'e bed..now lie in it."  Yet,it is called to my mind Joshua

  with his filthy garments..satan standing at his right hand to accuse him...and the

word of the Lord    rebuking him with 'the Lord who has  chosen Jerusalem rebuke you!

"  Zech 3;1-10   IS NOT THIS MAN A BURNING STICK PLUCKED FROM THE FIRE?

   plucked from the fire...a change of preisthood a change of garments.......




   

 

[Seth]

It's like this:  Let's say I was a back-slider.  If I died in a car wreck, and I was involved in terrible sin without recent repentance, then would I go to the "Universalist type Lake of Fire"?

I'm sorry if this sounds frustrating, but there is no "universalist lake of fire." There are different views on what the Lake of Fire symbolizes.

My answer to your question is, if you are a "backslider" and you live for sin, and have pleasure in unrighteousness, you are ALREADY IN A FIRE. Isaiah 9 describes it. Your salvation would come by way of repentance and entering into the Kingdom of God.

The Prodigal Son is a very good description of a backsliding Christian. One who received an inheritance and wasted it. His experience is what I believe the Lake of Fire is. Jesus said, "Not everyone who says Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of Heaven, but those who do the will of my Father." and "Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity." (2 Tim 1:19)

However, if someone is like the OTHER son, the one who stayed close to his father commits a sin, he may be gently reprimanded, but will not be cast away.

Jesus spoke of TWO BROTHERS.

1) One who LEFT his father's side and received a harsh experience
2) Another who stayed with his Father and received a gentle rebuke

I think that says everything to me about what happens to Christians who use their inheritance well, and those who waste it.

[Seth]

the reap what you sow.....bind up the tares for burning...........reminds me so

  much of 'you made your'e bed..now lie in it."  Yet,it is called to my mind Joshua

  with his filthy garments..satan standing at his right hand to accuse him...and the

word of the Lord    rebuking him with 'the Lord who has  chosen Jerusalem rebuke you!

"  Zech 3;1-10   IS NOT THIS MAN A BURNING STICK PLUCKED FROM THE FIRE?

   plucked from the fire...a change of preisthood a change of garments.......

Amen!  :dsunny:

[FreeAtLast]

But John said we also ought to walk as Yahshua walked on this earth and taught his disciples so--did he keep all the Sabbaths(Yes)--Did he ever eat any thing unclean(No)

If Yahshua did these things and taught his disciples to do these things---should we follow in the master's footsteps ?

Actually, yes we should do these things, but not the same way. Jesus said "Take up your cross and follow me." Well, if so, you should be dead right now. You should be hung up on a literal cross and be all bloody and die after three days.

Or....

There is a spiritual way to do the earthy things that Jesus did, like die on the cross. We can sacrifice ourselves SPIRITUALLY rather than Physically. We can recognize that Jesus is our rest, and so every day we walk with him, we are already observing the Sabbath. We can be circumcised in the heart, rather than the flesh (Jesus was no doubt physically circumcised, but we don't have to be).

We can walk on water, and even if we cannot do so physically, we can always walk according to the Spirit.

Paul,Peter,and John done it the same way in the new testament---they were men of faith

I still believe there should be a gathering together of those of like mind---but that's the problem  everyone seems to not have the like-mindness and the unity that the new testament church had--they were ALL of one mind and accord---they did the things the same way also  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

so to say that we do things completely different today---well that is saying imo that   Peter,Paul,John and the whole new testament church done it the wrong way

in essence what you are saying is right--but you cant throw away the way of living that comes out as a result of whats inside
if it was right for the new testament Believers---is it not right for us ??? :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[Seth]

in essence what you are saying is right--but you cant throw away the way of living that comes out as a result of whats inside
if it was right for the new testament Believers---is it not right for us ??? :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

If you desire to observe Sabbath, do so. I don't set aside days for God. And, I don't believe that if I am loving my brothers, and walking in love for my neighbors, that I have anything to be concerned about regarding the severity of God. I don't think that the Apostles observed Sabbaths for the purpose of pleasing God and following his Law, any more than I believe Timothy was circumcised physically for the same reason.

[FreeAtLast]

It's like this:  Let's say I was a back-slider.  If I died in a car wreck, and I was involved in terrible sin without recent repentance, then would I go to the "Universalist type Lake of Fire"?

Hello Jason

one thing is for sure--some may have different explanations of the lake of fire--but we all shall give account to him with whom we have to do  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[FreeAtLast]

Salvation is already accomplished through Yahshua--mankind has been Saved from Death---that Adam passed to all of us

Yahshua brought Life and defeated Death
Yahshua shall make Many(all)Righteous

ALL have  been Given Life because of Yahshua--but atm ALL have not yet been made Righteous

So is once saved always saved true---YES !!! in the proper light it is--Yahshua brought life to all Men and that Life cant be changed---meaning we want Die

But men still needs to Repent and believe---men will be judged according to whats contained in what we have as the Bible

Be Faithful unto death---you shall hear Well Done thou Good and Faithful Servant !!!
Be Not Faithful---you shall have part in the lake of Fire

men who do not Repent in this life will have part in the lake of Fire

[Jason76]

It's like this:  Let's say I was a back-slider.  If I died in a car wreck, and I was involved in terrible sin without recent repentance, then would I go to the "Universalist type Lake of Fire"?

I'm sorry if this sounds frustrating, but there is no "universalist lake of fire." There are different views on what the Lake of Fire symbolizes.

My answer to your question is, if you are a "backslider" and you live for sin, and have pleasure in unrighteousness, you are ALREADY IN A FIRE. Isaiah 9 describes it. Your salvation would come by way of repentance and entering into the Kingdom of God.

The Prodigal Son is a very good description of a backsliding Christian. One who received an inheritance and wasted it. His experience is what I believe the Lake of Fire is. Jesus said, "Not everyone who says Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of Heaven, but those who do the will of my Father." and "Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity." (2 Tim 1:19)

However, if someone is like the OTHER son, the one who stayed close to his father commits a sin, he may be gently reprimanded, but will not be cast away.

Jesus spoke of TWO BROTHERS.

1) One who LEFT his father's side and received a harsh experience
2) Another who stayed with his Father and received a gentle rebuke

I think that says everything to me about what happens to Christians who use their inheritance well, and those who waste it.

Interesting, so staying within a church (or a forum in this case) is safety net against being cast away.

[eaglesway]

Fellowship is always a safety net. Incorporate in the body, grafted into the vine, there is a wall of fire that surrounds Zion and a river that makes glad the city of God. :o)