Muslims taking over your town lately?

[Tony N]

In Iraq the Shiite & Sunni muslim religions have been at each other's throats for some time now.

They murder each other by blowing up people and torturing and beheddings.

If they do this to fellow Muslims, what do you think they will do to us who are outright infidels according to their view?

When I was taking a humanities class in college the prof. was talking about Mohammed. During a class break I asked a girl, who was muslim, in front of me what the matter was as she seemed rather agitated. She said in the most hateful manner: "If my friends knew what he was teaching they'd kill him!"

I was shocked. But not anymore, now that I know more about their hatred.

When the Muslims took over the Armenian country in the 1800's they begain enforcing their sharia law on the Christians. Eventually the Muslims tried to drive out the Christians Armenians by murder, genocide, forced marches to their deaths etc.
You can read about it here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide

Not long ago the Muslims in Dearborn were demanding prayer towers throughout the city with loudspeakers to tell everyone when each hour of prayer was. The city voted it down. But what will happen when the Muslim population buys up all the stores and runs everyone out? They will have their towers and their own sharia law.

[Paul Hazelwood]

So,  do you have a proposed solution, or do you want us all to get scaaaaared?




I knew a muslim, I was more concerned that he viewed being a muslim as if that was his race.  He said he fails to live up to the law so he has resigned to the fact that he is going to hell.   Plainly states it and has no conception that Jesus can do anything for him whatsoever.

What I suspect is that he has been taught that you must live up to the Christian God in the same manner , so whats the point?    :dontknow:

I concure from that perspective.   Switching sides doesn't mean squat from that point of view.

[Tony N]

So,  do you have a proposed solution, or do you want us all to get scaaaaared?

Yes, the solution is to never have allowed them to immigrate into the U.S. to begin with. Any country or ethnicity whose religion is such that all non-adherents must be killed off must not be allowed in.

What is to be done with those already here? We wait till they kill us all off. Then we won't have to worry about immigration any more.

[Paul Hazelwood]

So, Tony, do you want to form a squad to go out and assassinate all the muslims in this country? 

[Gabe Grinstead]

It is easy to pretend to take the high ground here by making light of this, but the fact is, there are far, far more muslims willing to blow themselves, their children and anyone else up for not believing the same way as you than there are Christians doing this.  It would be hard to argue that Christianity has a large sect of these.  Of course each religion may have certain 'nuts' associated with it, the fact of the matter is that Islam has many who would do this.

Now, that doesn't in and of itself make Muslim's bad people.  We know that and I will chastise anyone who tries to lump Muslims in a group as being hateful and killers. However, there is a rather large and disproportionate number of of Mulsims would resort to violence than any other known religion of the world. If we don't stand up to it, we could very well face something similar to World War 2.

I wish more people would move to the center on this issue.  To many people are all the way to the right and say that all muslims are bad.  But there are also way to many people who excuse their bahavior and say it is only a 'small' number that do this.  Rubbish, come to the middle and agree that this is an issue, but that not all, or even the majority of Muslims are bad.  But we need to stand up to the ones who will kill you because you don't believe or live a certain way. That HAS to go.

[Paul Hazelwood]

Not sure who is making light of anything.   If I do not walk around in fear what do you think that means?

If Tony thinks any muslim is dangerous, then he can step up to the plate and admit and /or explain the full scope of what he implies here. 


If a person is not going to make light of it, then make a statement about what YOU intend to do, because frankly someone that suggest things in the manner in which Tony has are ok with the discrimination as long as they do not have to take a physical part in it.  As long as someone else takes care of it, it's all good.


So Gabe, explain what you do to stand up to the muslims you are talking about.  Leave a forum post?

[Tony N]

Yes Paul, I am discriminating against Muslim people.

The Muslim fathers murder their daughters if they don't do what they think they should. Just the other day a Muslim father cut the tongue out of his daughter then poured gasoline on her and burned her to death because she had tried to marry someone he did not choose for her. If they do this to their own children then it doesn't take a whole lot of brains to figure what they will do to us.

Yes I discriminate. They have given me no reason not to.
They murdered over a million and a half Arminians less than a hundred years ago. In the early 1900's. The Muslims have been murdering the black Muslims in Africa by the hundreds of thousands just in the last couple years. And you don't want me to discriminate? I discriminate.

Trust me when I say if the muslims take control of the United States it will come to war. But only after they have murdered millions of us. We are too complacent. We are too wishy washy. We want everyone to be our friends. But they hate anything Christian.

Of course one can always find the odd person in the muslim religion that could care less about other religions. But get the herd mentality going with them and its curtains for us. Just look at history. Please discriminate!

[Craig]

Less than 200 years ago, "Christians" were doing the same thing.

[Paul Hazelwood]

Hi Tony,

Let me clarify what I want you to answer more specifically.

Discrimination is not always bad depending upon the means and circumstance in which it is excersized, in this case it is a convenient word to avoid stating directly the greater implication of what you want.  

I sometimes assume the poster is from America and that is not always the case.  

If you are an American Tony..... Answer this question.

Do you want to form a squad to go out and assassinate all the muslims in this country?

[onlytruth]

come to a new country(not neccesarily invited)
tell the centuries old traditions that theirs is better!
decide to walk the streets to make sure this comes about!
leave only when they want to
establish an entire new system,socially ,govermently.
oh wait -the us army did this to;ooops
if it was about the people,i agree.but more often than not it has to do with money and political leverage.
so sometimes the invader is on the other foot!

[Gabe Grinstead]

Less than 200 years ago, "Christians" were doing the same thing.

Other than some isolated incidents, you will have to provide more information on this. 200 years ago was 1808, and other than some fluke or odd obscure salem witch trial type thing, I don't think it is entirely accurate. If we move back to the 1600's and before, we will that it was absolutely true, though it was still true for Islam of that day as well.

What Tony mentioned is absolutely correct in that if they are willing to destroy their own children, then they are evil.  Not beyond hope, but they are evil.  I say again, anyone who kills his child is evil.  Much less strapping explosives on them to kill other people.  I hope to God that no Christian or anyone for that matter can sit back and defend such crimes against humanity.  Otherwise, we should just vindicate Hitler now and get it over with.

[Gabe Grinstead]

come to a new country(not neccesarily invited)
tell the centuries old traditions that theirs is better!
decide to walk the streets to make sure this comes about!
leave only when they want to
establish an entire new system,socially ,govermently.
oh wait -the us army did this to;ooops
if it was about the people,i agree.but more often than not it has to do with money and political leverage.
so sometimes the invader is on the other foot!

This thread has nothing to do with the Iraq war.  Please don't bring this into the discussion.

[rosered]

Less than 200 years ago, "Christians" were doing the same thing.

  This is so true ! I saw a documentary on TV  and was horrified !
  this country of USA is only alittle over 200 years as well and the blood shed it was founded on  in the name of God is atrocious :msealed:

[Paul Hazelwood]

Less than 200 years ago, "Christians" were doing the same thing.

Other than some isolated incidents, you will have to provide more information on this. 200 years ago was 1808, and other than some fluke or odd obscure salem witch trial type thing, I don't think it is entirely accurate. If we move back to the 1600's and before, we will that it was absolutely true, though it was still true for Islam of that day as well.

What Tony mentioned is absolutely correct in that if they are willing to destroy their own children, then they are evil.  Not beyond hope, but they are evil.  I say again, anyone who kills his child is evil.  Much less strapping explosives on them to kill other people.  I hope to God that no Christian or anyone for that matter can sit back and defend such crimes against humanity.  Otherwise, we should just vindicate Hitler now and get it over with.

Lets see if Tony will answer my question then you can respond to his answer.

[Tony N]

Hi Tony,

Let me clarify what I want you to answer more specifically.

Discrimination is not always bad depending upon the means and circumstance in which it is excersized, in this case it is a convenient word to avoid stating directly the greater implication of what you want.  

I sometimes assume the poster is from America and that is not always the case.  

If you are an American Tony..... Answer this question.

Do you want to form a squad to go out and assassinate all the muslims in this country?

I am a U.S. citizen. American is too broad a term. And American can live in Canada, United States, Central America or South America.

No, forming a squad to assassinate all the muslims would put us on the same murderous plane that they are on. Instead we should deport them before they murder us.
Last time I was in England in 2000 the Muslims were taking over that country with a birthrate of about 9 children to the British woman's one child. In France they are looting and torching if they don't get their way. In Morocco they blow up trains etc. In Africa they have been murdering hundreds of thousands to get their way. They have one goal: Make the Islamic religion the world wide religion.
By the way, those over a million murdered Armenians were Christians.

BTW SoTw, Christians in the middle ages were not just going out and murdering people. They were being overrun by Islamic Turks etc. and we were having to take our land back that they raped and pillaged.

[Paul Hazelwood]

No, forming a squad to assassinate all the muslims would put us on the same murderous plane that they are on. Instead we should deport them before they murder us.

So all muslims want you dead?  All of em?

[Molly]

Nobody wants muslims dead..sheesh.   What I think we need to do is take charge of our immigration policies, which are running amock at the moment and have for some time.  This is clearly social engineering by those who would take our liberties away--dilute the society.  It is happening in Europe right now. Many countries of Western Europe are already 25 percent muslim.   What people have to understand is that the muslim religion is a political force which is the antithesis of the principles on which this country was founded.  We have freedom of religion here--they do not--it is a death sentence for a muslim to become a Christian--and if they get ahold of our government, we will see our freedoms shut down very fast.

Close our borders!

I'm voting for Tony.

[Paul Hazelwood]

The problem is that the arguments for what this country was founded and it freedoms is exactly what you will take away if you deport all the muslims because of their religion.

If we can do it to them, someone can rightly do it to you as long as they make it legal and make the case that your a threat based on what you believe.

The KKK can assemble and believe what they want, when they take action that is against the law, no one is against arresting them.  The greater force that has reduced the KKK to nothing but a silly annoying presence in this country has been  the love for the equality of who the KKK hates.

I do see people wanting muslims dead for the sake of their religion. Saying it is ok to just round up people based on their faith has no better base in morality.  Your no different than a terrorist no matter how good you feel about yourself if you believe thats right.    Now thats worth a sheesh.

[Molly]

Well, I could say why don't you move to a muslim country and live by their rules for a while before you decide you want to import them over here.

Because we are not talking about a group who will assimilate to our way of life.  They will never assimilate to Judeo/Christian values, which nobody seems to appreciate anyways, so maybe you  deserve to be ordered when to pray and what to wear and what to eat and what you can say, and when to die if you say the wrong thing---and then, maybe, just maybe, you might appreciate liberty enough to want to preserve it--as a cultural mandate.

[Molly]

The Archbishop of Canterbury has attracted widespread criticism after appearing to back the adoption of some aspects of Sharia law in the UK.

Dr Rowan Williams said the UK had to "face up to the fact" some citizens did not relate to the UK legal system.

Culture Secretary Andy Burnham said such moves would create "social chaos."

But Bishop of Hulme, the Rt Rev Stephen Lowe, criticised the "disgraceful" way in which the archbishop had been "ridiculed" and "lampooned" by some.

"We have probably one of the greatest and the brightest archbishops of Canterbury we have had for many a long day," he said.

Taken aback

The robust defence follows criticism of Dr Williams in some circles.

The BBC understands from sources who work on Christian-Muslim interfaith issues that the Dr Williams has faced a barrage of criticism from within the Church and has been genuinely taken aback by how his words were received.

Islamic Sharia law is a legal and social code designed to help Muslims live their daily lives, but it has proved controversial in the West for the extreme nature of some of its punishments.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7233335.stm


Liberal Democrat leader Nick Clegg said he had "an enormous amount of respect" for Dr Williams, but could not agree with him on this issue.

He said: "Equality before the law is part of the glue that binds our society together. We cannot have a situation where there is one law for one person and different laws for another."

[Paul Hazelwood]

Well, I could say why don't you move to a muslim country and live by their rules for a while before you decide you want to import them over here.

You can say that,  but your applying what is happening in another country and applying it to say that because we allow them into this country that we will end up like them.  It is all fear and it is not in alignment with what gives yourself the freedom to do what you do.  

Because we are not talking about a group who will assimilate to our way of life. 
They will never assimilate to Judeo/Christian values, which nobody seems to appreciate anyways, so maybe you  deserve to be ordered when to pray and what to wear and what to eat and what you can say, and when to die if you say the wrong thing---and then, maybe, just maybe, you might appreciate liberty enough to want to preserve it--as a cultural mandate.

There are muslims in this country now, and they live as americans, practice their faith that is not the interpretation of the koran to kill people and "assimilate" just fine.  The majority of them do that now.

It is the fear that they are just waiting for the call to rise up against everyone.  You will never make this country better by living in that fear.  How terribly wrong.

If Judeo/Christian values is to round up people you do not like as cattle, then it isn't worth anything at all.

How Ironic, telling me that to appreciate my liberty I must agree to oppress others based on a religious belief.  

[Molly]

Friday, October 03, 2008
Iranian Parliament provisionally approves death penalty for leaving Islam

Barnabas Fund reports,'The Iranian Parliament has given provisional approval, by a majority of 196 to seven, to a bill that mandates the death penalty for apostasy from Islam. Until now Iranian judges could impose the death penalty in such cases only on the basis of Islamic law and fatwas, not on the basis of Iranian law.

The bill prescribes a mandatory death sentence for any male Muslim who converts from Islam to another religion, and lifelong imprisonment for female converts from Islam. It also gives the Iranian secular courts authority to convict Iranians living outside the country of crimes relating to Iranian national security. It seems likely that this could be used against the many Iranian Christians who live outside Iran but are involved in evangelism within it. Apostasy from Islam is viewed by most Muslims as equivalent to treason.

The bill, which was drafted earlier this year, is now being reviewed in parliament, giving MPs the opportunity to amend it. Before it becomes law the bill will also be vetted by the Council of Guardians, a twelve-member legislative body with the power to veto any bill that does not conform to Islamic law and the constitution.

Article 23 of the Iranian constitution states that "the investigation of individuals' beliefs is forbidden, and no one may be molested or taken to task simply for holding a certain belief". Iran is also a signatory of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, which guarantees freedom of belief.

"The provisional approval of this bill has serious implications for Iranian Christian converts, who already face much persecution from the authorities," says Dr Patrick Sookhdeo, International Director of Barnabas Fund. "It seems that the Iranian government is willing to continue on its course of complete Islamisation at the expense of the most basic human rights and in contradiction to Article 23 of the Iranian constitution. The Iranian Church needs our prayers more than ever."

The progress of the bill coincides with the formal charging of two Christian converts from Islam, Arash Basirat and Mahmood Matin-Azad, with apostasy at the beginning of August. Some Iranian Christians fear that the authorities are seeking to make an example of the two Christians, or to give the prospective law a "test run".

The persecution that Christian converts from Islam face under shari'a law is often not recognised by Western governments. Immigration officers frequently fail to distinguish between Christians who come from a Christian background and those who have converted from Islam. The latter may face real danger to their lives, either from their country's law enforcement agencies or from their community and family, even if Christians from a Christian background are not at risk. A number of Christian converts from Islam have been refused asylum in Western countries, including Iranians. In the light of this it is encouraging that on 29 September a Syrian Christian couple, both converts from Islam, were granted asylum in Britain. The couple had fled Syria after receiving death threats from their families.

Western ignorance of Muslim attitudes to apostasy can have serious consequences for asylum-seeking converts even without their being deported to their home countries. According to reports last weekend, a Libyan Christian convert from Islam was beaten almost to death by Muslims while at West Drayton Removal Centre in the UK. Twenty-eight-year-old Moftah Abdulghani, who had fled Libya after converting to Christianity, was awaiting a review of his case following the failure of his application for asylum in the UK. His Christian faith became known to the hundreds of Muslim detainees at the same Removal Centre, who began to abuse and threaten him. The assault, allegedly at the hands of Yemeni and Somali detainees, came as Moftah left the makeshift church at the Removal Centre. He is to be moved to another detention centre and kept in solitary confinement for his own safety.'

http://christianquoter.blogspot.com/2008/10/iranian-parliament-provisionally.html

[Molly]

Well, I could say why don't you move to a muslim country and live by their rules for a while before you decide you want to import them over here.

You can say that,  but your applying what is happening in another country and applying it to say that because we allow them into this country that we will end up like them.  It is all fear and it is not in alignment with what gives yourself the freedom to do what you do.  

Because we are not talking about a group who will assimilate to our way of life. 
They will never assimilate to Judeo/Christian values, which nobody seems to appreciate anyways, so maybe you  deserve to be ordered when to pray and what to wear and what to eat and what you can say, and when to die if you say the wrong thing---and then, maybe, just maybe, you might appreciate liberty enough to want to preserve it--as a cultural mandate.

There are muslims in this country now, and they live as americans, practice their faith that is not the interpretation of the koran to kill people and "assimilate" just fine.  The majority of them do that now.

It is the fear that they are just waiting for the call to rise up against everyone.  You will never make this country better by living in that fear.  How terribly wrong.

If Judeo/Christian values is to round up people you do not like as cattle, then it isn't worth anything at all.

How Ironic, telling me that to appreciate my liberty I must agree to oppress others based on a religious belief.  

Have you ever read the Koran?  Or any parts of it?  Have you studied the Armenian genocide where up to 2 million Christians were massacred and murdered on forced death marches because they were Christian?  How about the recent genocide in Africa, again Christians killed by muslims.  Don't talk about something you don't know anything about.

Round up people like cattle?  I never said that although I think all illegal immigrants should be sent home unless they are here by asylum.  And, I think we should close our borders to new immigrants because things are clearly out of control.  I don't want to find myself in the position Britian and Europe is in right now.  And, I don't intend to be forced to wear a bhurka, although I do look good in black.

[Paul Hazelwood]

None of that is an excuse to round up and deport muslims in the United States for the sole reason of their religious beliefs.

Because the very criteria that would allow that, could make you next.  

This is Judeo/Christian values?   Then I renounce them.

[Molly]

None of that is an excuse to round up and deport muslims in the United States for the sole reason of their religious beliefs.

Because the very criteria that would allow that, could make you next.  

This is Judeo/Christian values?   Then I renounce them.

Not deport citizens.  It's too late to do that.  But deport all non citizens, and not just muslims.  All.

And close our borders.