Lowered?

[Molly]

   and the blood gets it's breath from the power of the prince of the air/and the breath of life from God......anything strangled you are not to eat...

   basically 1st Adam's breath of life was strangled/choked  on the fruit of the tokogae....that is why Jesus said 'you have no life in yourselves"

   Basically He did mouth to mouth recessitation to bring forth spiritual life in us.....

There you go.

THIS^^^

[Molly]

Did God put carnal flesh on a perfected body?

I think Satan caused it to happen, but that's just me.

The man had flesh before he ate from the tree, but he was not ashamed.  Is that because there was nothing to be ashamed of?  because his nakedness was covered/clothed--as we are talking about on the other thread.

It seems to me you give the adversary a lot more credit than is due. And by doing so you make the Lord God out as second rate weaker the adversary.

Man/flesh, dust+breath=flesh If as you say man was not born of flesh, the the Bible is in error. ICor.15:45

I agree with that Micah.
The way I understand Molly she agrees with that too with the exception of Adam.

Yes, with the exception of Adam.

[Molly]

Did God put carnal flesh on a perfected body?

I think Satan caused it to happen, but that's just me.

The man had flesh before he ate from the tree, but he was not ashamed.  Is that because there was nothing to be ashamed of?  because his nakedness was covered/clothed--as we are talking about on the other thread.

God said to Adam who told you were naked?

So Adam was already naked, but someone or something told him. I believe it was the knowledge gained from the tree of good and evil.

Or it could mean that--just the way we are naked under our clothing, Adam lost something ['clothing'] that exposed his nakedness.

[Beloved Servant]

Romans 13:14
Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the sinful nature.

To seek what Adam lost, we can always find in Christ.

[Molly]

Did God put carnal flesh on a perfected body?

I think Satan caused it to happen, but that's just me.

The man had flesh before he ate from the tree, but he was not ashamed.  Is that because there was nothing to be ashamed of?  because his nakedness was covered/clothed--as we are talking about on the other thread.

Let's for now ignore who caused it.
God gave them animal skins. Agreed?
Do you think that event changed their bodies from "something" to what bodies are right now?

"God gave them animal skins." I do not agree.
Gen 3:21  And Jehovah God doth make to the man and to his wife coats of skin, and doth clothe them. Nothing about animal skins.
"Do you think that event changed their bodies from "something" to what bodies are right now?" No.

God 'clothed' them with 'coats of skin'

The word for 'coat' means a covering, or a garment, shirt, or robe.

"skins"

H5785
עור
‛ôr
ore
From H5783; skin (as naked); by implication hide, leather: - hide, leather, skin.


In other words, God has covered them with the naked human body.  What were they before he covered them if they are naked humans after he covers them?

[Molly]

Romans 13:14
Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the sinful nature.

To seek what Adam lost, we can always find in Christ.

THIS^^^

[Beloved Servant]

Amen.

[Molly]

 17Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

--Rev 3

[micah7:9]

Romans 13:14
Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the sinful nature.

To seek what Adam lost, we can always find in Christ.

Seems like you choose the only one that uses your terminology.

Romans 13:14

(ASV)  But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

(CLV) but put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and be making no provision for the lusts of the flesh."

(KJV)  But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

(WNT)  On the contrary, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for gratifying your earthly cravings.

[micah7:9]

Did God put carnal flesh on a perfected body?

I think Satan caused it to happen, but that's just me.

The man had flesh before he ate from the tree, but he was not ashamed.  Is that because there was nothing to be ashamed of?  because his nakedness was covered/clothed--as we are talking about on the other thread.

God said to Adam who told you were naked?

So Adam was already naked, but someone or something told him. I believe it was the knowledge gained from the tree of good and evil.

Absolutlly, so things were working out just as planned.

[micah7:9]

   and the blood gets it's breath from the power of the prince of the air/and the breath of life from God......anything strangled you are not to eat...

   basically 1st Adam's breath of life was strangled/choked  on the fruit of the tokogae....that is why Jesus said 'you have no life in yourselves"

   Basically He did mouth to mouth recessitation to bring forth spiritual life in us.....

There you go.

THIS^^^

Lev 17:11 for the soul of the flesh, it is in the blood

[sheila]

   BECAUSE THE LITTLE CHILDREN WERE PARTAKERS OF FLESH AND BLOOD,SO TOO  he shared flesh and blood,so that by His death He might destroy

   him who holds the power of death-that is the devil,and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.


      A spirit hath not flesh and blood....BUT THE WORD OF GOD COME IN FLESH MOST CERTAINLY DOES!!!....when you speak..breath comes out

     THE VERY BREATH OF GOD IS IN MAN!!     that is why,when you test the spirits..they deny that jESUS Christ is the WORD OF GOD COME IN FLESH


       these words are spirit and life........

[micah7:9]

"THE VERY BREATH OF GOD IS IN MAN!! " Shelia 
I cannot except that. That very breath of life is as well found in Gen 1:30  and to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the heavens, and to every creeping thing on the earth, in which is breath of life, every green herb is for food:' and it is so.

I fear that religion especially christianity misinforms when it teaches that the "breath of life" of Gen.2:7 is the SPIRIT of God.

[WhiteWings]

Did God put carnal flesh on a perfected body?

I think Satan caused it to happen, but that's just me.

The man had flesh before he ate from the tree, but he was not ashamed.  Is that because there was nothing to be ashamed of?  because his nakedness was covered/clothed--as we are talking about on the other thread.

Let's for now ignore who caused it.
God gave them animal skins. Agreed?
Do you think that event changed their bodies from "something" to what bodies are right now?

"God gave them animal skins." I do not agree.
Gen 3:21  And Jehovah God doth make to the man and to his wife coats of skin, and doth clothe them. Nothing about animal skins.

You are right. It doesn't read animal skin.

עור
‛ôr
BDB Definition:
1) skin, hide
1a) skin (of men)
1b) hide (of animals)

"Do you think that event changed their bodies from "something" to what bodies are right now?" No.

So if they didn't get animal skin the only othet possibility is they got human skin.
Humans wearing human skin over their human skin? Sounds like a bunch of canibals.
Seems an odd interpretation  :dontknow:

[WhiteWings]

Did God put carnal flesh on a perfected body?

I think Satan caused it to happen, but that's just me.

The man had flesh before he ate from the tree, but he was not ashamed.  Is that because there was nothing to be ashamed of?  because his nakedness was covered/clothed--as we are talking about on the other thread.

It seems to me you give the adversary a lot more credit than is due. And by doing so you make the Lord God out as second rate weaker the adversary.

Man/flesh, dust+breath=flesh If as you say man was not born of flesh, the the Bible is in error. ICor.15:45

I agree with that Micah.
The way I understand Molly she agrees with that too with the exception of Adam.

Yes I know and it seems to be so, that adam was not "born"[proceated] of flesh, adam is the first of all flesh and thats what adam reproduced, flesh. If as Molly says he was born of "spirit" isnt that what adam would bring forth spirit?

If Jesus would have had children during His earthly life would those children be spirits?
Again doubting but I leave open the possibility something changed when they got kicked out of Eden. Comparing the patterns of things Eden was the Holies or even the Holies of Holies of the Temple.
:2c:

[WhiteWings]

"THE VERY BREATH OF GOD IS IN MAN!! " Shelia 
I cannot except that. That very breath of life is as well found in Gen 1:30  and to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the heavens, and to every creeping thing on the earth, in which is breath of life, every green herb is for food:' and it is so.

I fear that religion especially christianity misinforms when it teaches that the "breath of life" of Gen.2:7 is the SPIRIT of God.

Compare:
G5594 and H5315
G4154 and H5397

What do you see? (using the greek LXX could be useful)

[sheila]

   
   IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD,AND THE WORD WAS WITH GOD,AND THE WORD WAS GOD.HE WAS WITH GOD IN THE BEGINNING

  THROUGH HIM ALL THINGS WERE MADE,WITHOUT HIM NOTHING WAS MADE,IN HIM WAS LIFE,AND THAT LIFE 'WAS" THE LIGHT OF MEN

THE LIGHT SHINES IN THE DARKNESS<BUT THE DARKNESS HAS NOT UNDERSTOOD IT

   There came a man who was sent from God,his name was John.He came as a wittness to testify concerning that light,so that through him

  all men might beleive.He himself was not the light,he came only as a witness to the light.  The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world


     He was in the world,and though the world was made through him,the world DID NOT RECOGNIZE HIM........He came to that WHICH WAS HIS OWN

  But his own did NOT receive him. Yet, to all who received him,to those who beleived in his name[word of God come in flesh],

   HE GAVE THE RIGHT TO BECOME CHILDREN OF GOD-children born NOT of natural descent.....nor of human decision or a husbands will...

    BUT BORN OF GOD.....

     THE WORD BECOME FLESH AND MADE HIS DWELLING A MONG US...WE HAVE SEEN HIS GLORY,THE GLORY OF THE ONE AND ONLY WHO

   CAME FROM THE FATHER,FULL OF GRACE AND TRUTH.


    the book of Adam and Eve describe the flesh that has an animal nature

[WhiteWings]

http://lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVanswers/2009/06-15a.html
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_did_god_cover_Adam_and_Eve_with_animal_skins


(oof-topc but good: http://www.lookstein.org/articles/rebekah_eve.htm)

[Molly]

Eden was the Holies or even the Holies of Holies of the Temple

I would suggest where the trees were is the Holy of Holies.

..the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
--Gen 2

in the midst=the center

Center/Midst
Garden
Outside the Garden

If as Molly says he was born of "spirit" isnt that what adam would bring forth spirit?

He didn't procreate until he was lowered into human [carnal] flesh--outside of the garden.

[Molly]

"THE VERY BREATH OF GOD IS IN MAN!! " Shelia 
I cannot except that. That very breath of life is as well found in Gen 1:30  and to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the heavens, and to every creeping thing on the earth, in which is breath of life, every green herb is for food:' and it is so.
I fear that religion especially christianity misinforms when it teaches that the "breath of life" of Gen.2:7 is the SPIRIT of God.

This phrase ['the breath of life=n'shamah chay'] is only used once in the Old Testament, when God breathes into the nostrils of Adam in Gen 2:7.

The next time we see God breathing into man is when the resurrected Christ does it to his disciples and tells them, Receive ye the Holy Spirit.

And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit.
--John 20:22

[Beloved Servant]

Amen.

[sheila]

    and so also,the Kingdom of Heaven was found in the midst.....that which was found 'good' in Adam...is found perfect in the tree of life

     can the word of God speak through an animal? an ass? Baalam's maybe?   the good portion of the tokogae is the word of God come in flesh

[Nathan]

Did God put carnal flesh on a perfected body?

I think Satan caused it to happen, but that's just me.

The man had flesh before he ate from the tree, but he was not ashamed.  Is that because there was nothing to be ashamed of?  because his nakedness was covered/clothed--as we are talking about on the other thread.

Let's for now ignore who caused it.
God gave them animal skins. Agreed?
Do you think that event changed their bodies from "something" to what bodies are right now?

"God gave them animal skins." I do not agree.
Gen 3:21  And Jehovah God doth make to the man and to his wife coats of skin, and doth clothe them. Nothing about animal skins.

You are right. It doesn't read animal skin.

עור
‛ôr
BDB Definition:
1) skin, hide
1a) skin (of men)
1b) hide (of animals)

"Do you think that event changed their bodies from "something" to what bodies are right now?" No.

So if they didn't get animal skin the only othet possibility is they got human skin.
Humans wearing human skin over their human skin? Sounds like a bunch of canibals.
Seems an odd interpretation  :dontknow:

Who says they had skin in the first place?  They were "IN THE GARDEN" . . .the garden of Eden is separate from Eden.  God didn't make Adam out of the earth in the garden . . .God created Adam out of the dirt on the earth "and placed him" in the garden . . .Adam "couldn't" walk from the earth to the garden . . .the earth and the garden are two different realms . . .the earth is "this" realm, the garden is the "spriit" realm.  God created Adam out of the "earth" (natural realm) and "placed" him in the garden (spiritual).  Our minds have conjured up images that our bodies require skin . . .but that doesn't mean it's true.  I think their bodies had perhaps skeletal qualities, and some form of outer covering to make up the body, something that God had to open in order to take a rib out . . .but the skin we have now?  Not necessarily.  The skin is a protective covering to keep us from disease and everyday wear . . .there's no need for a protective covering in the spirit realm.   

[Nathan]

Eden was the Holies or even the Holies of Holies of the Temple

I would suggest where the trees were is the Holy of Holies.

..the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
--Gen 2

in the midst=the center

Center/Midst
Garden
Outside the Garden

If as Molly says he was born of "spirit" isnt that what adam would bring forth spirit?

He didn't procreate until he was lowered into human [carnal] flesh--outside of the garden.

beings that we're stretching our "selves" out here so the spirit can reveal His nature and patterns . . .I'm gonna push the envelop here and say I do agree with WW's observation that the Garden could very well be depicting the Holy of Holies because of several componants.  One, It's always in "threes".  Outer court (body) inner court or holy place (soul) and holy of holies (spirit) and in Genesis, we have the earth (outer court) Eden (holy place) and the garden of Eden (holy of holies).  There is ONE nameless river that flows "out" of the garden "into" Eden.  But at the edge, it separates into FOUR rivers.  The number "one" speaks of DIVINE (spiritual) SOVERIEGNTY.  Four is the number for flesh, earth . . .it consists of four major elements, fire, wind, water and land.  There are four major directions, north, south, east and west.  There are four major seasons . . .

So when I see something moving from "one" into "four", it's a pattern showing movement from spiritual into natural . . .from the garden into the earth it divides into four heads and "then" you see the names. 

But the thing is, when God separated Eve from within Adam and brought them together again, the pronouncment was that they "reproduce and fill the earth"  I for one think that this was something they did as soon as the pronouncment was made.  I don't think they waited until after they fell . . .I think Eve gave birth while in the garden only difference was, in the natural, the birthing would bring extreme pain whereas when they were in the garden, pain wasn't even a reality.  So what evidence is there?  This may get a little slippery for some, but . . .when we see patterns in Scripture, we see how trees and men are synonomus . . .I think the trees they hid in, in the garden when the affects of the fruit of knowledge hit them, I think it was their offspring . . .you will know them by their "fruit".

[Molly]

    and so also,the Kingdom of Heaven was found in the midst.....that which was found 'good' in Adam...is found perfect in the tree of life

     can the word of God speak through an animal? an ass? Baalam's maybe?   the good portion of the tokogae is the word of God come in flesh

Men will tell you, 'There he is!' or 'Here he is!' Do not go running off after them.
--Luke 17:23


...nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or 'There!' for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you."

--Luke 17:21


I see this as both individual and collective prophecy.  The kingdom is within each one of us and in the midst of us collectively.  WE ARE HIS GARDEN.