Law/laws/sabbath (split from OSAS)

[FreeAtLast]

the Spirit does not inspire us to follow the letter. It inspires us to love our neighbor. No moral codes and no living in the shadow

do you know that the 2 LOVE commandments came directly from the old testament ?? I can look them up and post them later---everything that was taught and written in the new came from the old   :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

like I said we don't follow moral codes. This spirit inspires us to love our neighbor

exactly  :iagree: :iagree:

do you steal from your neighbor
do you lie against your neighbor

why not ???  because you love them    :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[Seth]

God does not require keeping the Sabbath as a literal day as a sign that we love him. He commands us to believe in Jesus and love our neighbor those are his commandments

[FreeAtLast]

nobody will be judged for not keeping the Sabbath as a literal day

that's part of 1 of the LOVE commandments---loving Yah with all your being   :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

do you have another God before you---NO you say ?
do you take the name of Yah in vain--No you say??
do you make any graven images for yourself--No you say ??

Why don't you do these things--because you LOVE YAH  ??

well theres 1 more there--that's the one everyone has problems with---Do you still LOVE YAH like with the other ones ???

the 10 are examples of how to LOVE your neighbor and YAH--which the 2 LOVE commandments speak of

you cant say you don't do any of the 9 because you love yah and your neighbor and let the other 1 go undone   :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[FreeAtLast]

God does not require keeping the Sabbath as a literal day as a sign that we love him. He commands us to believe in Jesus and love our neighbor those are his commandments

are you not forgetting that Yahshua said to LOVE YAH and your neighbor--theres 2 there friend :-)

[Seth]

nobody will be judged for not keeping the Sabbath as a literal day

that's part of 1 of the LOVE commandments---loving Yah with all your being   :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

do you have another God before you---NO you say ?
do you take the name of Yah in vain--No you say??
do you make any graven images for yourself--No you say ??

Why don't you do these things--because you LOVE YAH  ??

well theres 1 more there--that's the one everyone has problems with---Do you still LOVE YAH like with the other ones ???

the 10 are examples of how to LOVE your neighbor and YAH--which the 2 LOVE commandments speak of

you cant say you don't do any of the 9 because you love yah and your neighbor and let the other 1 go undone   :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

we don't follow codes. You keep quoting codes to me we believe in Jesus and love our neighbor as the Holy Spirit inspires us. That is all that is required of the Christian.

[Seth]

God does not require keeping the Sabbath as a literal day as a sign that we love him. He commands us to believe in Jesus and love our neighbor those are his commandments

are you not forgetting that Yahshua said to LOVE YAH and your neighbor--theres 2 there friend :-)

the Holy Spirit inspires that not according to code but by the power of the Spirit. When we believe in Jesus and love our neighbor we are loving God.

[FreeAtLast]

nobody will be judged for not keeping the Sabbath as a literal day

that's part of 1 of the LOVE commandments---loving Yah with all your being   :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

do you have another God before you---NO you say ?
do you take the name of Yah in vain--No you say??
do you make any graven images for yourself--No you say ??

Why don't you do these things--because you LOVE YAH  ??

well theres 1 more there--that's the one everyone has problems with---Do you still LOVE YAH like with the other ones ???

the 10 are examples of how to LOVE your neighbor and YAH--which the 2 LOVE commandments speak of

you cant say you don't do any of the 9 because you love yah and your neighbor and let the other 1 go undone   :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

we don't follow codes. You keep quoting codes to me we believe in Jesus and love our neighbor as the Holy Spirit inspires us. That is all that is required of the Christian.

I like to call them guidelines--LOVE has guidelines to express to you on how to openly show forth

You don't know how to properly LOVE without guidelines and without an example--Yahshua was our greatest example of this

[Seth]

you can love your neighbor without written guidelines. You don't have to know how to read in order to love your neighbor

[Seth]

Besides, if the Holy Spirit is involved, you can do anything. He can place it in your heart to love your neighbor even if you've never heard of the guidelines. Christ can do it all within you by the power of himself. Where the law is weak through the flesh, Christ is strong through the Spirit.

Just because someone doesn't know the guidelines, would that limit God?

[eaglesway]

The Sabbath rest of the believer is the finished work of Christ on the cross. Hebrews chapters 1-4

[WhiteWings]

in essence what you are saying is right--but you cant throw away the way of living that comes out as a result of whats inside
if it was right for the new testament Believers---is it not right for us ??? :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

If you desire to observe Sabbath, do so. I don't set aside days for God. And, I don't believe that if I am loving my brothers, and walking in love for my neighbors, that I have anything to be concerned about regarding the severity of God. I don't think that the Apostles observed Sabbaths for the purpose of pleasing God and following his Law, any more than I believe Timothy was circumcised physically for the same reason.

one thing we will have to agree with is that the believers did come together on the Sabbath day(weekly and yearly)if you do not observe a day then how can there be a gathering together of the believers ?  and even paul encouraged them not to forsake that gathering together(Sabbath day)

I know that today is totally different than that day as far as there are so many false doctrines and traditions in the professing church--that it is a hard thing to find a congregation today---but still there remains a gathering together on a certain day  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

This was the gathering:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Havdalah
http://www.jewfaq.org/prayer/havdalah.htm

[ed]

This was the gathering:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Havdalah
http://www.jewfaq.org/prayer/havdalah.htm

Learning to be Jewish really looks tough.

I did see some things in the article that I liked, but that was because I could spiritualize it.  Spiritualizing makes it something everyone can do without the worry of being offensive to those who do everything just right.

[WhiteWings]

For me the most interesting thing is that it means "separation".
That makes me think of "cut of"like Jesus was.
Somehow that gathering, that dates way before Jesus, points to Him. (like so many other things)
It does prove one thing, the ne w Christians did keep Jewish customs.

[Seth]

I believe Ronen has said he keeps the Sabbath, but not because he thinks it is binding on Christians. He says he does it as a reminder and it helps him in his understanding. That's a big difference. He's not suggesting to other Christians that without observing the Sabbath they are being disobedient to God, or not loving him, or should be concerned about judgment day. These are big differences. It's a personal choice for him that he doesn't believe is to be enforced on Christians. The issue is binding vs. not binding.

[micah7:9]

1Co 8:7-13 and  :iagree: with Seth.

[eaglesway]

It does prove one thing, the new Christians did keep Jewish customs.

Not sure WW how far you take that statement- so please regard this post in the context of the whole conversation thus far......

The fact that they gathered on the Sabbath for these meetings does not prove that all the early Christians kept Jewish "customs". The meeting in Acts 15 points in another direction, where the apostles and the entire church under the guidance of the Holy Spirit made it clear that new Gentile Christians coming into the fold were not to be put under ANY Jewish customs in a binding way- and in fact were only commanded to avoid certain grievous pagan practices that were common in the time and to avoid fornication(to keep sexually pure).

The voluminous writings of Paul on this subject also make that clear. To take a brief historical event and expand it to negate clear teaching to the contrary is a bit confounding to me. :dontknow:

Also, as late as Acts 11:19, the church being dispersed because of the persecutions that arose because of Stephen were still preaching the gospel to the Jews only, so naturally, they were meeting on the Sabbaths, as well as continually meeting from house to house as the evangelistic work went on in the streets and public meeting places daily. It wasnt until Acts 14 that a widespread door among the Gentile was being opened, and recognized by the churches, through the ministry of Paul and Barnabus. Up to and for years past that poibnt it stands to reason that the Jewish practices were predominant. This, however, does not translate into scriptural authority to teach contrary to what Paul taught, regardless what even his own practices, when among Jewish believers might have been- because Paul himself declares that he became all things to all people if by any means he might save some.

In Acts 15, the council at Jerusalem, including Peter, James, Paul, and Barnabus met over the issue of bringing the new Gentile congregations under the  laws of mosesn and customs of the Jews, and after much debate, they concluded as follows.

"The apostles and the brethren who are elders, to the brethren in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia who are from the Gentiles, greetings.

24 "Since we have heard that some of our number to whom we gave no instruction have disturbed you with their words, unsettling your souls, 25 it seemed good to us, having become of one mind, to select men to send to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 "Therefore we have sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will also report the same things by word of mouth. 28 "For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials: 29 that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell."

This conclusion is also repeated later in Acts- as an accusation against Paul by Jewish believers and unbelievers.

The reasonings for this conclusion were presented by Peter at the council and also are set forth in many of Paul's epistles.

The religious organizations of today want to dispute over the "proper day to meet". Such a limitation would have been considered lukewarm at best and apostate at worst in the early church, where the community of believers sent up a continual voice of praise and intercession throughout the week- and evangelized in the power of the Holy Spirit continually as well.

To neglect the "gathering of ourselves together" is unwise- but so is enforcing ANY laws about when such gatherings should occur, or teaching as if wtih some scriptural authority(none exists) that God insists they occur on a particular day- and that any feasts or sabbaths or new moons should be observed anyone under fear of scriptural authority or any custom or tradition or law that God is still commanding.

The free will observance of such traditions is sanctioned- and almost "excused" by Paul- saying that we who are free should be considerate of the weakness of conscience that some of our brethren labor under- but Paul is very insistent in several places that no such authority may be exercised over the flock of God, or individual congregations, or individual believers.

[Seth]

The fact that they gathered on the Sabbath for these meetings does not prove that all the early Christians kept Jewish "customs".

Amen on your whole post. To this specific thing, I'm wondering where it says that the church met every week on Sabbath. I am not saying that a scripture like that does not exist, but I would certainly like to take a look at it.

[sheila]

I wonder where they met when they threw them out? John 9;22,Jhn 12;42

[Seth]

It seems to me, at least by those scriptures that the only reason they met on the Sabbath was for practical reasons. It was the best time to preach to a large gathering of Jews, not because they were observing customs for their own edification.

[eaglesway]

In Acts 13, they met several consecutive Sabbaths to hear Paul. However these meetings began in actual regular Jewish synagogue meetings not believers meetings, and they were later driven out. It was from there that Paul decided to go only to the Gentiles.

In Acts 17 Paul again preaches in the regular Jewish synagogue meeting, in order to persuade/evangelize Jews and devout Greeks.

In Acts 18:4 s. 4 And he was reasoning in the synagogue every Sabbath and trying to persuade Jews and Greeks.

IN Acts 16:13 And on the Sabbath day we went out of the city to the riverside, where prayer was customarily made; and we sat down and spoke to the women who met [there].

These again were not believers meetings, they were regular Jewish Sabbath meetings and Paul was evangelizing- "seeking to persuade Jews and Greeks".

These verses are used to prove that Paul taught Sabbath keeping, because he practiced it. Paul was simply going where there were people gathered and evangelizing in all these instances. He would have to be the ultimate hypocrite to teach as he did in the epistles and practice otherwise. He wasn't there to observe the Sabbath. He was there to declare the Sabbath rest of God in Christ.

Some people keep the Sabbath in a willing heart without trying to press other's into it, and are blessed.

Often times the Sabbath is the point where people are first trapped into keeping the law and the traditions of the Jews. They are asked, "Don't you love Yah?" Then they are read a lot of scriptures on keeping the Sabbath and, being unaware/untaught that Christ has fulfilled the Sabbath and indeed IS our Sabbath, they get drawn into Jewish identity sects that then teach, in varying degrees, bondage to the law.

[Seth]

 :thumbsup:

[jabcat]

Amen.

[sheila]

 :thumbsup: there's an account in Lystra in Acts 14;8 that makes  me believe no

synagogue  there...as jews come from antioch and Iconium and persuaded the people

against Paul..so they stoned him and drug him from the city,fordead.

   that where the people tried to worship Paul and Barnabus.

[eaglesway]

:thumbsup: there's an account in Lystra in Acts 14;8 that makes  me believe no

synagogue  there...as jews come from antioch and Iconium and persuaded the people

against Paul..so they stoned him and drug him from the city,fordead.

   that where the people tried to worship Paul and Barnabus.

Yup, they called them "gods come down" and "Zeus and Hermes" as they began to worship them, so they most likely wasnt Jewish :o)

[rosered]

 

  Great stuff guys !! :thumbsup:  Thanks

Made me think of Jesus SPIRIT  speaking through Revelations to John saying ,
 
Message to the Church in Philadelphia  [brotherly love ]   philo

...8'I know your deeds. Behold, I have put before you an open door which no one can shut, because you have a little power, and have kept My word, and have not denied My name.


9 Behold, I will cause those of the synagogue of Satan[accuser  and adversary ], who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie--

I will make them come and bow down at your feet, and make them know that I have loved you.

10Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing,

that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth


  But God knows our hearts purest form of worship and sincerity

  Sabbath keeping is  holy

  no man can judge