Law/laws/sabbath (split from OSAS)

[dajomaco]

I'm not sure what the definitive (keeping the Sabbath means)
Could someone who keeps the Sabbath explain to me how they do it.
Starting with I get up in the morning then I -----------

[FreeAtLast]

And I would like to make one thing clear, concerning why I do what I do.

I may differ from other believers who observe moedim and shabbats and new moons, but I do NOT do so because I have to. That is tantamount to observing the letter.

I observe them because I WANT to. It is in my heart to do so. I also love, not because I have to, but because I want to. If I love God or my neighbor because I have to, then I am just as guilty of observing the letter as the next guy and that command to love God and my neighbor as myself will kill me.

Thank you for making that clear.

BTW, Jesus does command us to love, so we do have to, but he makes us want to.  :HeartThrob:

we want to do it because we LOVE Yah and our neighbor--LOVE is the motivating factor behind what we do  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[Seth]

RONEN, do you believe that observing a literal Sabbath is a matter of obedience to a God which all Christians should remain obedient to? Not obeying God is bad.

[gregoryfl]

I personally believe that the passage makes more sense how it was translated.

Then you should go with what you believe. We both will be enjoying our Father for eternity just the same, except I may be a little more plump from all the feast eating than you.  :rolllol:

[FreeAtLast]

I'm not sure what the definitive (keeping the Sabbath means)
Could someone who keeps the Sabbath explain to me how they do it.
Starting with I get up in the morning then I -----------

Sabbath(weekly)  begins  6pm Friday until 6pm Saturday

ceasing from your own works just like Yah did from his--not working on the Sabbath--not doing your own things--preparing your food  before the Sabbath begins--

it is a day to behold and worship Yah---to behold his creation in its beauty--all your thoughts towards Yah--

that's a start anyway   :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

you can look it up and read about what was said to do on the Sabbath  :dsunny:

[FreeAtLast]

I personally believe that the passage makes more sense how it was translated.

Then you should go with what you believe. We both will be enjoying our Father for eternity just the same, except I may be a little more plump from all the feast eating than you.  :rolllol:

Plumpy is what we will call you   :LH: :LH:

[gregoryfl]

RONEN, do you believe that observing a literal Sabbath is a matter of obedience to a God which all Christians should remain obedient to? Not obeying God is bad.

Not at all. For me to do that will end up in death, just as with any other mitzvah, including love. Here is a series of 4 short articles I wrote that explains my position on this:

http://ronsrestingplace.blogspot.com/search?q=what+is+obedience

[Seth]

I personally believe that the passage makes more sense how it was translated.

Then you should go with what you believe. We both will be enjoying our Father for eternity just the same, except I may be a little more plump from all the feast eating than you.  :rolllol:

:LH:  :dsunny:

ceasing from your own works just like Yah did from his--not working on the Sabbath--not doing your own things--preparing your food  before the Sabbath begins--

Sounds like alot of obligation. If somebody has a job that feeds their kids but their boss schedules them for work on the Sabbath, do they need to choose between obeying man and obeying God?

[lastpost]

I was truly joyed to read about celebrating a shadow although it is not necessary to do so to be in the Body of Christ.

I personally do not need to follow an old law. Moral and ethical laws to do with Divine love all spring naturally - (if I can use that word knowing what may come to mind in many minds here) - these all spring spiritually from following the commandments of Christ the Lord, and in anyone truly being guided by the Christ Spirit within and the Christ without.

Christ is for everyone, and even if someone's culture is actually to do something as ritual then that is fine with me because they follow Christ as their Saviour first and foremost, and judging them based on my interpretation of a scripture is, to me, a legalistic path that would take me in a Pharisaical direction. 

I would feel privileged to be invited to special Jewish rituals or celebrations and would gladly partake if invited. Where I come from, that would be unlikely considering my expressed beliefs, but the shadow is shortening and will finally pass away, leaving the full light of Christ to shine down and bless all brothers and sisters in an inherited earth - inherited in His Name! It sometimes seems like only yesterday Christ was here. Thank you.

PEACE

[Seth]

Amen!

:HeartThrob:

[FreeAtLast]

RONEN, do you believe that observing a literal Sabbath is a matter of obedience to a God which all Christians should remain obedient to? Not obeying God is bad.

Not at all. For me to do that will end up in death, just as with any other mitzvah, including love. Here is a series of 4 short articles I wrote that explains my position on this:

http://ronsrestingplace.blogspot.com/search?q=what+is+obedience

great article  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I often say that I do what I do because of LOVE--your article points out the truth of it and what I really mean when I use that terminology

the obedience and LOVE is none other than a person--Yahshua is obedience and LOVE--and is working out through us --therefore  when we say we do--it is none other than Yahshua doing through us

We LOVE him because HE first LOVED us---and gave us his spirit--Yahshua is the LOVE and Obedience within us or we would have none :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[FreeAtLast]

I personally believe that the passage makes more sense how it was translated.

Then you should go with what you believe. We both will be enjoying our Father for eternity just the same, except I may be a little more plump from all the feast eating than you.  :rolllol:

:LH:  :dsunny:

ceasing from your own works just like Yah did from his--not working on the Sabbath--not doing your own things--preparing your food  before the Sabbath begins--

Sounds like alot of obligation. If somebody has a job that feeds their kids but their boss schedules them for work on the Sabbath, do they need to choose between obeying man and obeying God?

through Faith my brother--  if you don't have the faith in that matter then don't do it  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[Seth]

So, if the woman whose boss schedules her for work on Sabbath, if she doesn't do it, her faith is doubted?

If a woman has faith in Christ, does she need to choose between her schedule at work and the Sabbath day? After all, faith without works is dead, as you have said. So, the woman does not do the work of the Law to abstain from working on Sabbath in order to keep from being fired, his her faith dead?

Your doctrine is exposed.

[FreeAtLast]

So, if the woman whose boss schedules her for work on Sabbath, if she doesn't do it, her faith is doubted?

If a woman has faith in Christ, does she need to choose between her schedule at work and the Sabbath day? After all, faith without works is dead, as you have said. So, the woman does not do the work of the Law to abstain from working on Sabbath in order to keep from being fired, his her faith dead?

Your doctrine is exposed.

I said Faith in that particular matter---not your faith as a whole

we have only a measure of faith  some have a greater measure than others in some areas

if you don't have the faith in a particular area--then don't do it until you have it   :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[FreeAtLast]

So, if the woman whose boss schedules her for work on Sabbath, if she doesn't do it, her faith is doubted?

If a woman has faith in Christ, does she need to choose between her schedule at work and the Sabbath day? After all, faith without works is dead, as you have said. So, the woman does not do the work of the Law to abstain from working on Sabbath in order to keep from being fired, his her faith dead?

Your doctrine is exposed.

while you are trying to spend all your time here trying to expose me(so called) try looking into the matter more so than you are and you might have rays of light shine upon you   :Pray: :Pray: :Pray:

[gregoryfl]

To share my anniversary example again, to do so does not come naturally up from within my heart. It is a tradition I learned from others and chose to follow. Likewise, celebrating His moedim does not spring up naturally within me. They are traditions handed down by my forefathers that I learned and chose to follow.

My observing a wedding anniversary or not does not affect my wife's love for me. The anniversary is simply a physical opportunity to express that love in a specific way.

My observing moedim does not affect our Father's love for me. They are just physical ways for me to express love for him concerning his plan and purposes.

Although many think observing feast days or shabbatot are burdensome, it is no more so than anniversaries in my experience. They are truly times that I and my family look forward to.

[Seth]

So, if the woman whose boss schedules her for work on Sabbath, if she doesn't do it, her faith is doubted?

If a woman has faith in Christ, does she need to choose between her schedule at work and the Sabbath day? After all, faith without works is dead, as you have said. So, the woman does not do the work of the Law to abstain from working on Sabbath in order to keep from being fired, his her faith dead?

Your doctrine is exposed.

I said Faith in that particular matter---not your faith as a whole

we have only a measure of faith  some have a greater measure than others in some areas

if you don't have the faith in a particular area--then don't do it until you have it   :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

You have avoided my question because you understand the implications of your doctrine upon the poor.

[FreeAtLast]

To share my anniversary example again, to do so does not come naturally up from within my heart. It is a tradition I learned from others and chose to follow. Likewise, celebrating His moedim does not spring up naturally within me. They are traditions handed down by my forefathers that I learned and chose to follow.

My observing a wedding anniversary or not does not affect my wife's love for me. The anniversary is simply a physical opportunity to express that love in a specific way.

My observing moedim does not affect our Father's love for me. They are just physical ways for me to express love for him concerning his plan and purposes.

Although many think observing feast days or shabbatot are burdensome, it is no more so than anniversaries in my experience. They are truly times that I and my family look forward to.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[FreeAtLast]

So, if the woman whose boss schedules her for work on Sabbath, if she doesn't do it, her faith is doubted?

If a woman has faith in Christ, does she need to choose between her schedule at work and the Sabbath day? After all, faith without works is dead, as you have said. So, the woman does not do the work of the Law to abstain from working on Sabbath in order to keep from being fired, his her faith dead?

Your doctrine is exposed.

I said Faith in that particular matter---not your faith as a whole

we have only a measure of faith  some have a greater measure than others in some areas

if you don't have the faith in a particular area--then don't do it until you have it   :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

You have avoided my question because you understand the implications of your doctrine upon the poor.

you just don't understand faith and the Power of Yah--your accusations against me are of none effect

is anything impossible with Yah ??? Does he have all Power ??? all wisdom ??? im afraid brother for you--

Yah can take an impossible situation and make Possibilities--or in essence he can turn it around.

if you don't have  enough faith to believe then that is fine--keep believing what you believe until Yah shines his light upon you and grants you more faith  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:


my dear Brother--may Yah bless you richly in his good pleasure--and I will pray for you because of your accusations against me   :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[Seth]

It's quite easy for the wealthy to observe a literal Sabbath day. But not the poor. It's much more difficult a burden upon them, because to observe the Sabbath literally, they must forgo work that might pay, and put food on the table. For the wealthy, or those fortunate to have a job that does not require work on the Sabbath or being on-call that day, they can go about preaching God's commandments without care to those on whom such a literally observed commandment places great burden and is UNSCRIPTURAL.

Some people worship God every day, and they rest from their literal work on their days off, getting the same amount of rest as the Sabbath pusher without having to observe something God doesn't command for them.

Nobody who abstains from Sabbath observance is lacking any faith unto righteousness and obedience before God. Sabbath observance is not a command for Christians, nor anything they MUST do as an expression of love for God.

[Seth]

So, if the woman whose boss schedules her for work on Sabbath, if she doesn't do it, her faith is doubted?

If a woman has faith in Christ, does she need to choose between her schedule at work and the Sabbath day? After all, faith without works is dead, as you have said. So, the woman does not do the work of the Law to abstain from working on Sabbath in order to keep from being fired, his her faith dead?

Your doctrine is exposed.

I said Faith in that particular matter---not your faith as a whole

we have only a measure of faith  some have a greater measure than others in some areas

if you don't have the faith in a particular area--then don't do it until you have it   :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

You have avoided my question because you understand the implications of your doctrine upon the poor.

you just don't understand faith and the Power of Yah--your accusations against me are of none effect

is anything impossible with Yah ??? Does he have all Power ??? all wisdom ??? im afraid brother for you--

Yah can take an impossible situation and make Possibilities--or in essence he can turn it around.

if you don't have  enough faith to believe then that is fine--keep believing what you believe until Yah shines his light upon you and grants you more faith  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:


my dear Brother--may Yah bless you richly in his good pleasure--and I will pray for you because of your accusations against me   :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

This is the same logic pushed upon the tithe crowds. They say "OBEY God and pay the tithe, and God will provide for you." Then they end up poorer than before, and doubting their faith.

The Sabbath is not a commandment to Christians.

[ed]

Well after 15 good rounds I'm still convinced and in one camp.

I'm in the exact same discussion on another board, the thread is called:  "You Christians pick and choose what you obey in the Bible".

I am convinced it is not "what" to obey but "who" you obey.

:dsunny:

Nice debate here.  My hat is off to both sides.

Good job keeping it in the love of God.

.

[gregoryfl]

Well after 15 good rounds I'm still convinced and in one camp.

I'm in the exact same discussion on another board, the thread is called:  "You Christians pick and choose what you obey in the Bible".

I am convinced it is not "what" to obey but "who" you obey.

:dsunny:

Nice debate here.  My hat is off to both sides.

Good job keeping it in the love of God.

.

To spin a pun off of your comment, I see us all as being in the same camp, the one חן (grace, encampment, favor) of our Father. I refuse to allow the differences we may have individual to divide that unity of the faith.

:friendstu:

[Seth]

FreeAtLast has said in the Sin thread: "brother the scripture says that he KEPT THE LAW    Commandments     statues     this is how he obeyed Yah voice--in that he kept THE LAW that was given unto him we obey his voice also and obey what he has given unto us the same way"

There are two views which have been discussed in this thread

1) That the Sabbath is a custom that we can choose to keep or not, but has no connection to obedience to God for Christians, or
2) The Sabbath is a commandment to God from the 10 Commandments that those who hear his voice must also obey

These are mutually exclusive arguments. That is why I find it funny that FreeAtLast is giving multiple thumbs up to Ronen, when Ronen was denying his argument. Nobody but FreeAtLAst has made any argument that the Sabbath is a commandment for Christians to obey if they hear God's voice.

[FreeAtLast]

So, if the woman whose boss schedules her for work on Sabbath, if she doesn't do it, her faith is doubted?

If a woman has faith in Christ, does she need to choose between her schedule at work and the Sabbath day? After all, faith without works is dead, as you have said. So, the woman does not do the work of the Law to abstain from working on Sabbath in order to keep from being fired, his her faith dead?

Your doctrine is exposed.

I said Faith in that particular matter---not your faith as a whole

we have only a measure of faith  some have a greater measure than others in some areas

if you don't have the faith in a particular area--then don't do it until you have it   :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

You have avoided my question because you understand the implications of your doctrine upon the poor.

you just don't understand faith and the Power of Yah--your accusations against me are of none effect

is anything impossible with Yah ??? Does he have all Power ??? all wisdom ??? im afraid brother for you--

Yah can take an impossible situation and make Possibilities--or in essence he can turn it around.

if you don't have  enough faith to believe then that is fine--keep believing what you believe until Yah shines his light upon you and grants you more faith  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:


my dear Brother--may Yah bless you richly in his good pleasure--and I will pray for you because of your accusations against me   :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

This is the same logic pushed upon the tithe crowds. They say "OBEY God and pay the tithe, and God will provide for you." Then they end up poorer than before, and doubting their faith.

The Sabbath is not a commandment to Christians.

im still praying for you brother  for  your bearing false witness against thy neighbor  --- :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: