Just what is spirit

[Molly]

Supernatural that is your word? And you are saying that we encounter the "supernatural?" And that there are alot of "things" goin on?
I have to say that is not an answer far from what I expected.
So you think or know or feel or something that the SPIRIT is a supernatural encounter, is that right? Well Glory!

Supernatural is a fine word. 

We wrestle...against spiritual wickedness in high places.[Eph 6:12]

"spiritual"

G4152
πνευματικός
pneumatikos
phyoo-mat-ik-os'
From G4151; non-carnal, that is, (humanly) ethereal (as opposed to gross), or (daemoniacally) a spirit (concretely), or (divinely) supernatural, regenerate, religious: - spiritual. Compare G5591.

[micah7:9]

Just what did you accomplish by showing me a word in Strongs that may or may not have anything to do with my question? I have a Strongs and a Youngs and neither can find the word "supernatural" in the context of the Bible.  Supernatural is a fine word, and yes Eph.6:12 we do wrestle against spiritual wickedness in high places, do you have any idea what that means?

My question is "Just what is Spirit." Should we believe in Jesus Christ and His saving blood then we must work in the spirit and not in this world. The truth that we work in the world is evident. We have numerous religions, denominations, sects, beliefs which keep the entire christian religious community at odds. Why? I believe that those who know and hear the Spirit, stall, because we think and believe that the Spirit is invisible. We dont see because we dont truelly believe, we just have our belief, what ever denomination, sect. We are hobbled to the earthy for we have been taught that the heavenly is somewhere other that within and among us. We are afraid to believe in Jesus and that we are above all that is below, WE ARE A NEW CREATURE but we live in fear. I say Glory!

[Molly]

We are hobbled to the earthy for we have been taught that the heavenly is somewhere other that within and among us. We are afraid to believe in Jesus and that we are above all that is below, WE ARE A NEW CREATURE but we live in fear. I say Glory!

I agree with everything you just said, Micah.

But, I showed you the word 'pneumatikos' because I believe it is referring to spiritual beings.

I also believe these spiritual beings are involved in things for good or evil.  Ephesians 6 is talking about evil spiritual beings that we are to wrestle [vibrate] against.  But it's interesting that one of the definitions is 'human ethereal,' implying that we are also spiritual beings.

"ethereal"


•aeriform: characterized by lightness and insubstantiality; as impalpable or intangible as air; "figures light and aeriform come unlooked for and melt away"- Thomas Carlyle; "aerial fancies"; "an airy apparition"; "physical rather than ethereal forms"
•of or containing or dissolved in ether; "ethereal solution"
•celestial: of heaven or the spirit; "celestial peace"; "ethereal melodies"; "the supernal happiness of a quiet death"


First definition 'aeriform.'--•resembling air or having the form of air

I know you'll never agree we have celestial, ethereal, spirit bodies--but it's something that I believe.  Right now, in this aeon,  Satan has the power over the 'air.'

Ephesians 2:2
in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—

I saw a good movie about this :Ink.

[thinktank]

Luke 16:30-31
And he said, No, father Abraham: but if one went to them from the dead, they will repent.
And he said to him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

It is my (understanding/interpretation) of the above verses that the rich man or his brothers were walking in darkness and none were in a position to hear any message that may be given by Lazarus...even if he came back from the dead.

Does that mean that no one is in a position to hear anyone who came back from the DEAD?...No.
Our Lord came back from the dead....some responded positively and some negatively.


In John 11 – we read of another Lazarus being raised from the dead, some believed...and then  in  John 12:9-11 others wanted to kill him.
AJ


That's a great find AJ, never noticed that before. Lazarus was sent back from the dead and people did belive on Jesus because of his testimony and the cults wanted to kill Lazarus because of this.



There is revelation / understanding that is yet to be revealed.  And how is God going to reveal this info?
Yup...by angels....who were men that had previously lived before on the earth as men.

I have more to say on this subject...but I'll close for now.
New time...I'd like to show that some verses show that Christ returns it's
with the 'saints' and then other verses show that he returns with 'angels'.

Peace, AJ.


I hate this idea at first, but I remember reading a book called conversation with God. God explains that human spirts and angels are sent by him to minister to believers. I remember once feeling down and a pretty woman appeared next to my bed and gave me encouragment to resist temptation, I did not react much as I was feeling depressed and so just though, oh that was interesting.
I think it was a person, rather than an angel, as I have also seen an angel and there is a different colour quality, the angels are bright and seem to glow in the dark, but this woman was more like a low quality hologram, not fuzzy but not a strong colour.

[Molly]

God explains that human spirts and angels are sent by him to minister to believers.

14 Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?

--Heb 1

[reFORMer]

...spoken to a group of believers in England ...by different holy angelic human spirits - through a woman sitting in a wheel chair.
It sometimes included - David Livingstone, Kate Naish, Florence Nightingale. General William Booth and others.

This is classic consulting with familiar spirits and necromancy.  In Hitler's day they called it "incarnating."  These days it's "channeling."

Conversing with spirits, doubly so if they impersonate the dead, is nowhere near the same thing as actually raising people from the dead:  spirit, soul and body.  Jesus says for those who happen upon the resurrection they are  as the the angels.  This is not disembodied spirits, whether on their own or representing the dead.  It is sin to deal with the latter and to deal with spirits in various degrees of manifestation we must discern on a case by case situation.  In Deuteronomy God explains why "no other god (elohim) shall be in you."  He is jealous and wants you for Himself.  Why not use tea leaves and tarot cards?  It is because God wants to fill you with His own Spirit, and, "The Spirit of prophecy is the testimony to Jesus." 

[micah7:9]

...spoken to a group of believers in England ...by different holy angelic human spirits - through a woman sitting in a wheel chair.
It sometimes included - David Livingstone, Kate Naish, Florence Nightingale. General William Booth and others.

This is classic consulting with familiar spirits and necromancy.  In Hitler's day they called it "incarnating."  These days it's "channeling."

Conversing with spirits, doubly so if they impersonate the dead, is nowhere near the same thing as actually raising people from the dead:  spirit, soul and body.  Jesus says for those who happen upon the resurrection they are  as the the angels.  This is not disembodied spirits, whether on their own or representing the dead.  It is sin to deal with the latter and to deal with spirits in various degrees of manifestation we must discern on a case by case situation.  In Deuteronomy God explains why "no other god (elohim) shall be in you."  He is jealous and wants you for Himself.  Why not use tea leaves and tarot cards?  It is because God wants to fill you with His own Spirit, and, "The Spirit of prophecy is the testimony to Jesus."

Amen and Amen.

[AJ]

Greetings reFORMer and micah7:9:

1 Pet 3:19
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison.

Hummmm,.... so when the Lord Jesus Christ spoke to SPIRITS in prison...he was consulting with familiar spirits and necromancy?
SHAME ON HIM.
Then according....your views also make Jesus Christ guilty of "incarnating" and "channeling."
SHAME ON HIM again.

I stand with Christ and I will NEVER make any of his work an abomination.
Most of what happens in the spirit world - we really know little if any about it.


Ephesians 5:1 commands us to be imitators of Christ. Jesus Himself stated many times that He came as an example and, over 30 times, the New Testament uses some tense of the phrase "follow me", "follow Him" or "followers of Christ."
The word "followers" can be traced back to the Greek word "mimos" which means "to imitate." From the word "mimos", we can easily see from where the English words "mime" and "mimic" are derived.

Scripture is loaded with examples revealing how and what one must do in order to be an imitator of Christ. Love your enemies. Forgive those who have sinned against you. Heal the sick.
Cast out devils. Set captives free. Make disciples.
Visit the imprisoned, the infirmed and feed the hungry. Things like that, right?

So how's all that coming along anyway?

Peace my friends, AJ.


.

[Molly]

God's purpose in all this was to use the church to display his wisdom in its rich variety to all the unseen rulers and authorities in the heavenly places.
--Eph 3:10


"unseen rulers"

G746
ἀρχή
archē
ar-khay'
From G756; (properly abstract) a commencement, or (concrete) chief (in various applications of order, time, place or rank): - beginning, corner, (at the, the) first (estate), magistrate, power, principality, principle, rule.


[and] "authorities"

G1849
ἐξουσία
exousia
ex-oo-see'-ah
From G1832 (in the sense of ability); privilege, that is, (subjectively) force, capacity, competency, freedom, or (objectively) mastery (concretely magistrate, superhuman, potentate, token of control), delegated influence: - authority, jurisdiction, liberty, power, right, strength.


[in the]

"heavenly" [places]

G2032
ἐπουράνιος
epouranios
ep-oo-ran'-ee-os
From G1909 and G3772; above the sky: - celestial, (in) heaven (-ly), high.


To miss this is to miss the whole story. imo

[thinktank]

Greetings reFORMer and micah7:9:

1 Pet 3:19
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison.

Hummmm,.... so when the Lord Jesus Christ spoke to SPIRITS in prison...he was consulting with familiar spirits and necromancy?
SHAME ON HIM.
Then according....your views also make Jesus Christ guilty of "incarnating" and "channeling."
SHAME ON HIM again.

I stand with Christ and I will NEVER make any of his work an abomination.
Most of what happens in the spirit world - we really know little if any about it.


Ephesians 5:1 commands us to be imitators of Christ. Jesus Himself stated many times that He came as an example and, over 30 times, the New Testament uses some tense of the phrase "follow me", "follow Him" or "followers of Christ."
The word "followers" can be traced back to the Greek word "mimos" which means "to imitate." From the word "mimos", we can easily see from where the English words "mime" and "mimic" are derived.

Scripture is loaded with examples revealing how and what one must do in order to be an imitator of Christ. Love your enemies. Forgive those who have sinned against you. Heal the sick.
Cast out devils. Set captives free. Make disciples.
Visit the imprisoned, the infirmed and feed the hungry. Things like that, right?

So how's all that coming along anyway?

Peace my friends, AJ.


.

Christ command us to heal the sick, preach etc as he did, but does he command us to preach to disembodied spirits?



This might interest some of you, I know it interests me. I had a dream I was in hell, I was in a big mansion and there were people there, it seemed an ok place, a bit run down perhaps, looked like the Addams Familly mansion.
I started preaching about God being the saviour of all men and their eyes lighted up, but then it seemed as if my message was being rejected and could no longer preach. I asked my guide what happened? but did not receive an answer.
Then some mafia type people came in to the house demanding payment, I tried to smack them over their head with a bat, but his head was metal, I knew I had no chance, so I apologized, he left me alone then. These people were some kind of goons for high ranking people in hell who had power, so it seemed a place very similar to earth.

This dream is a bit strange just like most dreams, but in most dreams I don't preach about God, neither have I ever gone to a place that I thought was considered hell by me, and this is even though I have had dreams where I have been in far worse places, I did not consider them hell. I cannot know for sure whether this was a real vision or just a dream, but interesting nevertheless.

[micah7:9]

You being Thinktank will show me, but I could not find this information..."Christ command us to heal the sick, preach etc as he did, but does he command us to preach to disembodied spirits?'  Thinktank

[thinktank]

Ezekiel 34:4
You have not strengthened the weak or healed the sick or bound up the injured. You have not brought back the strays or searched for the lost. You have ruled them harshly and brutally.

Matthew 10:1
[ Jesus Sends Out the Twelve ] Jesus called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out impure spirits and to heal every disease and sickness.

Matthew 10:8
Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.


Acts 19:12
12So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.

[micah7:9]

Jesus healed out of love and compassion, He had no choice..it came out of Him...He is Love...healing had to come, the disease, what ever it was had no foothold.... He healed and made well those in need as the healing came out from Him.
You may consider or think command, I do not see that. Jesus, the man was here on earth to express the VERY LOVE of the Creator and Father. When Jesus saw, felt, or was even close to a discrepencie of the human being...it had to be healed...there was not place or room for the weakness that at times overwhlems the human body that was able(Abel) to stand or hold...it had to and must fail. My God regins. Our perception and understanding of spirit is hobbled and even bound with our natural imagination, called normal, and that is the very speak that Jesus conveyed that we must not hear, only man only heard the healing stuff and seen the things that what Jesus could do......we did not get it then...not even those closest to Him, they continued to build on the "law" making the rituals and stuff we have today in religion....it was not the time...but now, it is the time...we hear what the Spirit is saying. Jesus was and is revealing, manifesting, uncovering Himself to those who have ears to hear...NOW.

[reFORMer]

Greetings reFORMer and micah7:9:

1 Pet 3:19
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison.

Hummmm,.... so when the Lord Jesus Christ spoke to SPIRITS in prison...he was consulting with familiar spirits and necromancy?
SHAME ON HIM.
Then according....your views also make Jesus Christ guilty of "incarnating" and "channeling."
SHAME ON HIM again.

I stand with Christ and I will NEVER make any of his work an abomination.
Most of what happens in the spirit world - we really know little if any about it.


Ephesians 5:1 commands us to be imitators of Christ. Jesus Himself stated many times that He came as an example and, over 30 times, the New Testament uses some tense of the phrase "follow me", "follow Him" or "followers of Christ."
The word "followers" can be traced back to the Greek word "mimos" which means "to imitate." From the word "mimos", we can easily see from where the English words "mime" and "mimic" are derived.

Scripture is loaded with examples revealing how and what one must do in order to be an imitator of Christ. Love your enemies. Forgive those who have sinned against you. Heal the sick.
Cast out devils. Set captives free. Make disciples.
Visit the imprisoned, the infirmed and feed the hungry. Things like that, right?

So how's all that coming along anyway?

Peace my friends, AJ.

This is not about the living contacting the dead.  It is the dead preaching to the dead, which is what Christ did while He was dead.  Christ Jesus had died and gone as a spirit into hades, preaching to those who died in the days of Noah.  "...being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:  By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;  Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water." (1 Peter 3:18-20; KJV)  The imprisonment of those dead from the flood worked.  This is evident from the phrase, "Which sometime were disobedient." (v.20)  They were no longer disobedient.  "For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit." (1 Peter 4:6; KJV)

What I do is attempt to talk to anyone and everyone I can, mostly at the Post Office, the grocery store, hardware store, restaurants, at my house...wherever, whenever.  There isn't much opportunity in steeple houses because they run the pastor system which is a one man show.  The Church isn't on their program.  Neverthless, I sometimes meet hungry people in their Sunday Schools.  In all these venues the power of God sometimes shows up too.  Hopefully we can have a little fellowship gathering more regularly at home.  Similar, to home schooling, it seem a house church may be the only way we can meet as the body of Christ without other mediators.  Men are in charge everywhere we look.  "Those who are lead of the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God."  So what are those who are lead of other men?  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

One very important thing to consider is that nowhere in the Bible do teachers, prophets, apostles and the like interact with spirits presenting as spirits of the dead.  The Bible record shows the gifted ones in the living Church minister to those who are alive, never to the dead, which would defy God's ban on such.

[micah7:9]

Glory and Amen!
I must and will get back to this post,yet when one is dealing with the thoughts and reasons of I AM and then listening, we  know that our speech needs be One, not more than One, for One is Peace, and Spirit is One. I AM!

[thinktank]

Jesus healed out of love and compassion, He had no choice..it came out of Him...He is Love...healing had to come, the disease, what ever it was had no foothold.... He healed and made well those in need as the healing came out from Him.
You may consider or think command, I do not see that. Jesus, the man was here on earth to express the VERY LOVE of the Creator and Father. When Jesus saw, felt, or was even close to a discrepencie of the human being...it had to be healed...there was not place or room for the weakness that at times overwhlems the human body that was able(Abel) to stand or hold...it had to and must fail. My God regins. Our perception and understanding of spirit is hobbled and even bound with our natural imagination, called normal, and that is the very speak that Jesus conveyed that we must not hear, only man only heard the healing stuff and seen the things that what Jesus could do......we did not get it then...not even those closest to Him, they continued to build on the "law" making the rituals and stuff we have today in religion....it was not the time...but now, it is the time...we hear what the Spirit is saying. Jesus was and is revealing, manifesting, uncovering Himself to those who have ears to hear...NOW.

What I'm saying is that Jesus gave us an instructions to do works in his name.

Matthew 10:8
Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give

But I cannot find instructions/commands to go and preach to disombodied spirits, but rather he says to cast them out.
Do you think that Now, Jesus in Love calls us to preach to disombodied spirits? instead of casting them out? That perhaps in those days the command to cast out spirits was there for only those of that time period?

[CHB]

Bible Secret Number 43 Did Christ Preach While Dead?

Did Christ preach to the spirits in prison (their underground place of restraint) while he was in the tomb for three days?
 
Many people, even whole denominations, have as their creed that Christ did in fact go to the fallen angels and preach to them while he was dead for three days. But the Bible also consistently tells us that Christ died, and that when he was resurrected three days later he was raised up from the dead. This means that the three parts of Christ (who was then a human being) died, or else as Paul taught the three parts of a human (body, soul and spirit – I Thessalonians 5:23) cannot be saved because our bodies have sins on them (Colossians 2:11), our souls have sins on them (Ezekiel 18:4), and our spirits have sins on them (II Corinthians 7:1). To cleans us of all sins (those of the body, soul and spirit), Christ had to die for us (on our behalf, as a substitute for us) and he had to die in body, in soul, and in his spirit. It is just that simple.

Had Christ's body died and his soul and spirit went on living, then he did not die as other humans die. But there was nothing about Christ at the time that differentiated him from any other human (Philippians 2:6-8). So Christ died as do all humans - on body, soul and spirit. This means it would have been impossible for him to go to the spirits in prison and preach to them while he was dead for three days. This is because a dead man is not alive when he is dead.

Now if someone you may have known recently died and you or anyone else witnesses a spirit personality who says he or she is the one who recently died, you can know for a fact that the spirit saying such a thing is a lying spirit who is just like Satan the Devil trying to deceive you. This is the very thing that the apostle Paul warned people about which he said was to occur in greater incidence in the latter times. He said: "now the spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of demons" (I Timothy 4:1). Listen, if any person you know is dead supposedly make a "spirit appearance" to you or anyone else, that spirit is a false, lying and deceptive spirit that is akin to Satan the Devil and that spirit should not be heeded in any way. The apostle John said: "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try (or, test) the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world" (I John 4:1). The truth is, the dead are dead and they will remain dead (including Mary the mother of Jesus and all the apostles and early prophets) until the resurrection from the dead which takes place at the second advent of Christ (I Corinthians 15:38-55). And this means that Christ himself, when he was in the tomb for three days, was completely without consciousness during that time in body, soul and spirit (just the same as any other human being is also completely dead – utterly unconscious).

So, Christ could not go to the spirits in prison while he was dead and preach to them. In actual fact, the apostle Peter nowhere suggest such nonsense. In I Peter 3:18 he states that Christ truly died (he was "put to death in the flesh") but then he was "quickened by the Spirit" (last part of verse 18). To be quickened means to be made alive. Peter is telling us that Christ was put to death and then later he was resurrected from the dead (he was "quickened"), and then in the spirit, "he went and preached unto the spirits in prison" (verse 19). It is made abundantly clear by Peter that this preaching to the angelic hosts who rebelled in Noah's time was after he was quickened – after he was resurrected from the dead. It is amazing how many misapply the plain words of Peter that this occurred after Christ was "quickened". It is wrong to make Christ preaching while he was dead.

This misapplication of the scripture is another example of how the false notion that the dead are still alive (that is, alive in soul or spirit –which they are not) is a major factor in creating myriads of false doctrines that the dead are now alive. Let me be plain. The only person who has been resurrected back to a spiritual life where he will never die again is Christ Jesus himself (I Corinthians 15:20-22), while Mary the mother of Jesus, all the apostles, and even all of us today, will have to wait until the second advent of Christ to regain life by the resurrection from the dead (I Corinthians 15:23). It is time to give up the foolish teaching that the dead are now alive. They are not alive, but totally dead and thoroughly unconscious and they are without the slightest knowledge of what is going on in the earth or in heaven. Ernest L Martin

[Nathan]

First, TT stated
There is revelation / understanding that is yet to be revealed.  And how is God going to reveal this info?
Yup...by angels....who were men that had previously lived before on the earth as men.
A. while it is true angels did bring instruction in visions mostly, but occasionally they would relay directions to an individual.  There is no indication where revelation came from the angel.  What they delivered was a specific instruction from God "to" an individual.  But as near as I can tell, it is God that does the revealing.  And what he reveals to us is the nature of Christ in us.  But to say it only comes from angels, or through angels . . . feels like it's stretching things.

B.   Where on earth did you come up with the idea that dead people turn into angels?  We were created a little below angels and through the redemption of Christ, we are elvated above them, but I've never seen in Scripture or in revelation where men who were once flesh were transformed into angels.  I think right now, there are men who are angels . . . but not because of their dna make up . . .but because they are God's messengers . .that could be "anyone".

CHB stated
if any person you know is dead supposedly make a "spirit appearance" to you or anyone else, that spirit is a false, lying and deceptive spirit that is akin to Satan the Devil and that spirit should not be heeded in any way

I kinda take issue with this as well.  It feels like this last post of yours turned a corner to where things were said that are forced rather than flowing.  I can't digest this one either.  I don't have all the answers and I'm not about to try to speak as one who is an authority over these matters, but at the same time, I do think there have been instances where this actual kind of phenomena has occurred and it wasn't a demon or what have you.   It's not something I would make a doctrine out of either. 

But . .as I offered to you before, from what I've read in Hebrews 11 and 12, it would appear that what you're adamantly proclaiming doesn't fit with what Scripture is manifesting . . .and  . . .if we did die and become nonexistant . . .who was it that the Bible said was Moses and Elijah that appeared with Jesus before Peter James and John?   Demons pretending to be someone else?  It just isn't fitting at all.

[thinktank]

Is there someone else called TT? That quote you said Nathan does not sound like me, unless you rewrote what I said, but I don't recall saying that men turn into angels. I agree with you that angels are a different beings to men, my take on it  is that angels are mightier than men, in terms of power, majesty, even when men take off the limitations of the flesh and become spirits, but I also belive as you said Nathan that through Christ in us, we in a sense are more majestic or powerful than angels, simply because He who is the greatest, lives withinus.

I also have some very contraversial stuff, I'd like to say, but not sure what do with the information right now, as it is not appealing and could bring extra ammo to the ET camp, which I do not want, maybe I'll pm some of you for your opinion.

[Nathan]

uh oh  . . . I copied and pasted it but now that you've brought it up, I can't find what I copied it from . . . I thought is was on page one of this thread . . but I'm not seeing it . . .sigh . . .sorry TT if I've misdirected this toward you when you didn't say it.

I'll keep looking though . . .I thought the post I took it from was quoting a passage out of 1 Timothy just before it . . .but I can't find that either.

[Nathan]

TT I'm really sorry about that . . .I've gone through this thread slowly and I don't even know where I got it from.  I copied and pasted it . . .apparently from another thread . . .apparently not written by you . . .

My mistake. 

[thinktank]

Apology accepted captain Nathan...... thank you  :thumbsup:


:director:  Now give me 50 pushups  :laughing7:

[Nathan]

Maybe that'd help me get rid of this keg sitting on my chest . . .. I have a washboard chest . . .it's just . . .not manifesting as such right now. :dontknow:

[thinktank]

50 is a bit hardcore, 20 is a good target, I can currently do about 16, proper ones, not the jelly wobbly walrus type ones you see a lot doing, claiming a 100  :laughing7:

[CHB]

But . .as I offered to you before, from what I've read in Hebrews 11 and 12, it would appear that what you're adamantly proclaiming doesn't fit with what Scripture is manifesting . . .and  . . .if we did die and become nonexistant . . .who was it that the Bible said was Moses and Elijah that appeared with Jesus before Peter James and John?   Demons pretending to be someone else?  It just isn't fitting at all.

Nathan, I didn't mean to imply that we became nonexistance when we die, just inactive.

Also, Jesus himself said that the Transfiguration was a vision. He said "tell the vision to no man".

What if this vision was just a look into the future?

CHB