I believe

[jabcat]

Hi jabcat,

From reading your post, it sounds like the soul is hard to distinguish from the spirit?

Here are a few verses that speak of the soul. What I get from them is, the soul can die, can be without knowledge. You can satisfy it with water. Can feel sorrow, plus many other things.

Hi C.  What I posted was a quote from the link Tony posted.  I see it as saying the soul is the part of us that contains our feelings, tendencies, personality - and can contain "our own works, our own attempts to function, including, to attempt to please/serve God".  Whereas, the spirit is a deeper level, something placed within us that can involve an interaction with God that is "beyond" our own efforts - i.e., God working through  us, as opposed to us working "for" God.

It's that place that I personally need to function at, not struggling with my own thoughts and emotions to "please" Him, but being more of a vessel, a conduit, which He can flow through.  I'm seldom walking in the spirit in that manner, but when I do, it [He] "works".

Hi jabcat,

You said, " the soul is the part of us that contains our feelings, tendencies, personality - and can contain "our own works, our own attempts to function, including, to attempt to please/serve God".

Do our feelings, tendencies, personalities, die?

(Psalms 33:19-20) To deliver their soul from death, and to keep them alive in famine.
Hab. 2:10) thou hast sinned against thy soul.

How do we sin against our feelings, personalities, and so forth?

Thanks in advance for your answer.

CHB

hey C., really not sure about all this, had never worried about it a lot before, really.  again (as often is the case) I wonder what other translations say in the Habbakuk verse, if it's consistently rendered 'soul'?  I'm not sure all the translators have known the difference either - but once again, I'm just not sure.  Blessings.

[jabcat]

  again (as often is the case) I wonder what other translations say in the Habbakuk verse, if it's consistently rendered 'soul'?  I'm not sure all the translators have known the difference either - but once again, I'm just not sure.  Blessings.

Took a quick look.  It appears most of the older translations say 'soul', while the newer ones say 'life'...one even says "sin against yourself". 

[micah7:9]

(Rotherham)  Thou hast counseled shame to thy house—making an end of many peoples, and endangering thine own life.
Hab.2:10
Hab 2:10 Thou hast devised shame for thine house; By destroying many nations, thou hast brought ruin upon thyself.
Geo. Noyes 1869
Hab 2:10 "You have devised a shameful thing for your house
By cutting off many peoples;
So you are sinning against yourself. Amp. and NASB
. 10 By scheming to destroy many peoples, you have brought shame to your house and forfeited your life (Complete Jewish Bible D. Stern 1998)

[Molly]

If you are a Christian, your spirit has been made alive by the Spirit (John 3:6), and today Jesus Christ is with your spirit (2 Tim. 4:22). There is not one verse in the whole Bible which says that your soul was born again or that Christ today is in your soul. Neither is there a single verse which says that we should worship God with our soul (although many Christians try it). But there is a verse which says that if we are going to worship God, we must worship Him in spirit (John 4:24).

contendingforthefaith.com

jabcat




There is a verse which says the soul magnifies the lord.

Luke 1:46
And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,

This is after Mary is inspired by the Holy spirit.


I see the soul as a product of the spirit. The Spirit leads and commands, while the soul is the womb to be nourished and to grow up on the words we have feed it. Our soul is an entity that has developed over our entire life, so there are in fact parts of your soul that operate, that your not even aware of. Some people might say, your' in touch with your inner child etc, I see this to mean that there is a part of our soul that still remembers what it is to be a child.

In fact if I borrow that Adam/ Eve souls analogy, we can see this verse

Ephesians 5:29
For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

Ephesians 5:33
Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

The wife being the soul reverences the husband which is the spirit, and of course for the husband to love his own soul, just as much as he loves himself(The spirit man)

[my soul]

"doth magnify" [the Lord]

G3170
μεγαλύνω
megalunō
meg-al-oo'-no
From G3173; to make (or declare) great, that is, increase or (figuratively) extol: - enlarge, magnify, shew great.

What a concept, huh?  The soul as the increaser of God!

His soul becomes knit together with ours.  In this way are we saved because only he has immortality, only he has righteousness.  Hereby-we-know-the-love-of-God: because-He-laid-down-his-soul-for-us.

Make no mistake.  Jesus is the lover of my soul! :bigGrin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvHDlDZOtbE

[WhiteWings]

As I said, then Paul reported incorrectly.

Are you aware that you are saying Paul wasn't inspired?
Another thing to consider is that all mentioned verses are 100% inspired and in agreement but you overlook a crucial detail...
:2c:

[CHB]

hey C., really not sure about all this, had never worried about it a lot before, really.  again (as often is the case) I wonder what other translations say in the Habbakuk verse, if it's consistently rendered 'soul'?  I'm not sure all the translators have known the difference either - but once again, I'm just not sure.

Me neither jabcat. I haven't thought about or studied this subject a lot. might be a good idea if I did. This is why I ask so many questions.  I read the article WW posted and found this interesting.


Below is from the article WW, posted.

("But he himself never did explain what the point is in the verse which says that the Word of God divides the soul from the spirit. The point is very simple: in man there is the realm of the soul which is natural, and the realm of the spirit which can receive, appropriate, and understand the things of God. These two realms must be clearly divided asunder so that man can know the difference between the realm of the soul and the realm of the spirit".)

It sounds like he is saying that the soul is the part of man that is natural and doesn't recognize or care about the spiritual things. Could the soul and spirit be the good and bad in man. Just a thought.  :dontknow:  But then we have this verse that seems to contridict this  (Psalms 49:8)
"For the redemption of their soul is precious, and it ceaseth for ever". So, it sounds like the soul can be redeemed?

(Heb. 4:12) For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even TO THE DIVIDING ASUNDER OF SOUL AND SPIRIT.

This verse sounds like God's word cuts the soul and spirit apart as if they are joined together. Have to look this up in other translations.

CHB

[Molly]

O Lord, thou hast pleaded the causes of my soul; thou hast redeemed my life.
Lam:3:58

Oh draw near to my soul and redeem it; Ransom me because of my enemies!
Psa 69:18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEb5kkksbSQ

Jesus, Redeemer of my soul,
O gracious God of Israel!

[WhiteWings]

(Heb. 4:12) For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even TO THE DIVIDING ASUNDER OF SOUL AND SPIRIT.

I asked it in my first post and got no answer so I ask again.

Does anybody see a paralel with Rich man and Lazarus.

The dividing asunder in Hebrews = the fixed gulf in RaL

????

[micah7:9]

(Heb. 4:12) For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even TO THE DIVIDING ASUNDER OF SOUL AND SPIRIT.

I asked it in my first post and got no answer so I ask again.

Does anybody see a paralel with Rich man and Lazarus.

The dividing asunder in Hebrews = the fixed gulf in RaL

????

I would think you could if you wanted to see the richman as flesh and Lazarus as spirit.

[WhiteWings]

THE USE OF Nephesh IN THE OLD TESTAMENT
THE USAGE OF RUACH, SPIRIT.


I think that aligns pretty well with the Jewish view a man has two souls. (or spirits. I don't remember exactly)
I think we should for a moment stop quibbling about the defenitions of spirit and soul.
Take a look at the first link. Animal and man have a soul.
Take a look at the second link. Only higher lifeforms have a spirit.

That's Biblical and should be our starting point.
I think it simply means that soul equals life (force) and instict.
Spirit is everything else.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9:  You did it again, WW..... :thumbsup:   yes there is a correlation between the rich man and Lazarus. The word for wound (as in wound in His SIDE) and wide gulf are related. The side speaks of the inner court, as does the wide gulf between man (outer court) and God (Holy of Holies).

[micah7:9]

THE USE OF Nephesh IN THE OLD TESTAMENT
THE USAGE OF RUACH, SPIRIT.


I think that aligns pretty well with the Jewish view a man has two souls. (or spirits. I don't remember exactly)
I think we should for a moment stop quibbling about the defenitions of spirit and soul.
Take a look at the first link. Animal and man have a soul.
Take a look at the second link. Only higher lifeforms have a spirit.

That's Biblical and should be our starting point.
I think it simply means that soul equals life (force) and instict.
Spirit is everything else.

If you want to look at it that way fine. I m not quibling and the Biblical starting point is "man became a breathing creature."
Animal and man ARE souls = breathing creatures.

[CHB]

THE USE OF Nephesh IN THE OLD TESTAMENT
THE USAGE OF RUACH, SPIRIT.


I think that aligns pretty well with the Jewish view a man has two souls. (or spirits. I don't remember exactly)
I think we should for a moment stop quibbling about the defenitions of spirit and soul.
Take a look at the first link. Animal and man have a soul.
Take a look at the second link. Only higher lifeforms have a spirit.

That's Biblical and should be our starting point.
I think it simply means that soul equals life (force) and instict.
Spirit is everything else.

Makes sense to me. I may change my mind later though. :winkgrin:

CHB

[WhiteWings]

:cloud9:  You did it again, WW..... :thumbsup:   yes there is a correlation between the rich man and Lazarus. The word for wound (as in wound in His SIDE) and wide gulf are related. The side speaks of the inner court, as does the wide gulf between man (outer court) and God (Holy of Holies).

:idea2:

^ACVGenesis 2
21 And LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept. And [God] took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in place of it.

  /  צלע
tsêlâ‛  /  tsal‛âh
BDB Definition:
1) side, rib, beam
1a) rib (of man)
1b) rib (of hill, ridge, etc)
1c) side-chambers or cells (of temple structure)
1d) rib, plank, board (of cedar or fir)
1e) leaves (of door)
1f) side (of ark)
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong's Number: from H6760
Same Word by TWOT Number: 1924a

[Molly]

THE USE OF Nephesh IN THE OLD TESTAMENT
THE USAGE OF RUACH, SPIRIT.


I think that aligns pretty well with the Jewish view a man has two souls. (or spirits. I don't remember exactly)
I think we should for a moment stop quibbling about the defenitions of spirit and soul.
Take a look at the first link. Animal and man have a soul.
Take a look at the second link. Only higher lifeforms have a spirit.

That's Biblical and should be our starting point.
I think it simply means that soul equals life (force) and instict.
Spirit is everything else.

Animals have spirits, too.  Ask the American Indian.

Ecc 3:21
Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?"

[thinktank]

THE USE OF Nephesh IN THE OLD TESTAMENT
THE USAGE OF RUACH, SPIRIT.


I think that aligns pretty well with the Jewish view a man has two souls. (or spirits. I don't remember exactly)
I think we should for a moment stop quibbling about the defenitions of spirit and soul.
Take a look at the first link. Animal and man have a soul.
Take a look at the second link. Only higher lifeforms have a spirit.

That's Biblical and should be our starting point.
I think it simply means that soul equals life (force) and instict.
Spirit is everything else.

If you want to look at it that way fine. I m not quibling and the Biblical starting point is "man became a breathing creature."
Animal and man ARE souls = breathing creatures.

You keep insisting on this, but the actual starting point is

Genesis 1:27 (New International Version)

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
   in the image of God he created them;
   male and female he created them.


God created man Here before a soul is even mentioned, before a body also.

[Molly]

THE USE OF Nephesh IN THE OLD TESTAMENT
THE USAGE OF RUACH, SPIRIT.


I think that aligns pretty well with the Jewish view a man has two souls. (or spirits. I don't remember exactly)
I think we should for a moment stop quibbling about the defenitions of spirit and soul.
Take a look at the first link. Animal and man have a soul.
Take a look at the second link. Only higher lifeforms have a spirit.

That's Biblical and should be our starting point.
I think it simply means that soul equals life (force) and instict.
Spirit is everything else.

If you want to look at it that way fine. I m not quibling and the Biblical starting point is "man became a breathing creature."
Animal and man ARE souls = breathing creatures.

You keep insisting on this, but the actual starting point is

Genesis 1:27 (New International Version)

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
   in the image of God he created them;
   male and female he created them.


God created man Here before a soul is even mentioned, before a body also.

Good point, TT.

We also know that God has a Spirit, a soul [Christ], and a body [us]. :winkgrin:

[micah7:9]

 "Good point, TT."    Yes, it is something to consider thanks, still the way I must reason, the entire first chapter of Genesis,  is The Word spoken, there is nothing formed until chapter 2 correct?

" We also know that God has a Spirit, a soul [Christ], and a body [us]. Molly

Where does it teach God has a Spirit?
And where does it teach that His(God's) soul is Christ?

I do not doubt the American Indian's beliefs.

[Cardinal]

You keep insisting on this, but the actual starting point is

Genesis 1:27 (New International Version)

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
   in the image of God he created them;
   male and female he created them.


God created man Here before a soul is even mentioned, before a body also.

:cloud9: Please note.......MALE AND FEMALE He created THEM. Your mind is translating that scripture, according to what you can observe with your natural eyes, but what He is saying here is, He created BOTH OF THEM male and female = spirit and soul in each.

[thinktank]

Not if we preexisted. Eby teaches this....

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Don't understand your comment, and I don't know what Eby teaches..... :dontknow:

[thinktank]

Well if we preexisted as spirit beings before we came to physical Earth. Male and Female God created THEM

[micah7:9]

You keep insisting on this, but the actual starting point is

Genesis 1:27 (New International Version)

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
   in the image of God he created them;
   male and female he created them.


God created man Here before a soul is even mentioned, before a body also.

:cloud9: Please note.......MALE AND FEMALE He created THEM. Your mind is translating that scripture, according to what you can observe with your natural eyes, but what He is saying here is, He created BOTH OF THEM male and female = spirit and soul in each.

Card, you speak this " He created BOTH OF THEM male and female = spirit and soul in each." as though thats it, anyone else that may reason it another way is not getting it.
I know and believe "...Male and female, created he, them. "
Its the last part that I do not accept. Neither spirit or soul is mentioned in Gen.1:27 and in Gen. 2:7 we find out what a soul is, it is a living creature.
I understand that your words are to be understood as spirit, but it seems to me that you take a NT word and use it in the OT where we do not have that same meaning. Or am I way off base.
Peace and Love Through Jesus

[Molly]

GOD HAS A SOUL



11And I set my tabernacle among you: and my soul shall not abhor you.

--Lev 26:11

30And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you.

--Lev 26:30

1Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

--Isa 42:1


8Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me.
--Zech 11:8

18Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.--Mat 12:18




38Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
--Heb 10:38




Jesus, Redeemer of my soul,
O gracious God of Israel.

[CHB]

Yes, and when he/God spoke these words he wasn't even human. Wow!!!  I believe this was Jesus speaking, he just wasn't Jesus at that time.

CHB